MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency

“run by politicians not elected by the people living in the Falklands ”

let´s vote!! 2011 is such a good time

I´m sure Mr. Spink is the best governor candidate of PRO party; who will be the senators & deputy candidates??. Summer want to live in baires one day; he told me when I meet him; senator summer?? what about gavin short in lower house sitting next Pino?

I promise Billy Hayes will open the first basic unity in Stanley. ....my general how much you worth....lalalalala

FIG and human rights:
“The Falkland Islands is South America’s most important penguin breeding site, but greed and corruption at the very highest level of government has resulted in the loss of over 5 million penguins. When a British biologist, funded by the British government to establish a penguin monitoring programme, began drawing attention to the disaster, he found himself at war with the Falkland Islands Government. For five years Mike Bingham and his family suffered police harassment, death threats, attacks on their property, and attempted deportation.

Eventually Bingham took the Falkland Islands Government to the Supreme Court for Human Rights abuse, and won. The Governor, Chief Executive, Attorney General and elected members of Executive Council were ruled to have committed acts of human rights abuse that the Supreme Court described as ”morally and constitutionally indefensible“. This is the story of the Falklands Regime. ”

Marco, Did he also tell you about his false credentials and non existent qualifications that he used to trick his employer with - until he was found out. Did he ever produce any proof of all his wild claims? Are there not large numbers of penguins still here several years later? Some breeds are increasing in numbers. Argentina is welcome to him as far as many here are concerned!
What amuse me most is how I have seen the attitudes of the Chileans who live and work here change over the last few months - they are becoming as pissed off with Argentina as a nation as what we Islanders are! Also it is rubbing off on their families and frieds back in Chile - so we have a small - but increasing - number of Chilean people who are starting to hate Argentina - well done the K,s.
Your policies irritate us - but it does not cause job losses here - it DOES cause Chileans to loose their jobs in Southern Chile though - is that what it was meant to do?
No regime here- a democraticly elected Govt that practises open democracy.

jajajajaja,, Mr Spink, the president of the Chamber of Commerce of the Dictarship impose in Malvinas talking about “humans rights” . Here in Argentina we have a real free socity, PIONNERS IN HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE WORLD! withour resentments, high develop in the region, education people, health, diversity, in the dictactorship of the occupied Malvinas you have just the oposite of thoses things... you are a similar place like Cuba (the different are that Cuba born like Cuba and the Malvinas islands born like a part of the UP of River Plate and not like an enclave of UK where the invasor will have “rights”).

islander you are talking about collaterall damage, nothing to worry about; chile is much more than a few magallanic linked with kelperland.
Real Chile and not your idealization sees UK as a threat in her antartic claims & kelperland is the reason; in chile they think that a good deal would be a no britain presence in south atlantic situation.

Now it seems that islanders are concerned. However, they tend to forget the reasons that led the Argentine Government to issue the decree to regulate use of national ports, which obviously includes both continental Argentina and the islands. If Chile decided to interrupt the service, Mercopress has published before more than one articles stating that the service was interrupted for other reasons. If Argentina wanted to “blockade” the islands as these British guy says, they would have cancelled the Lan Chile flight before, which remember is operated because of Argentina's decision to authorize this service. It's as simple as that. You cannot ignore what the actual situation is. Regrettably, the UK knows there's not much to do but to abide by international law.

Nitro - you seem very sure about all this Dictatorship here - can you give me some details - I ve not come across it here - we had one 28years ago for a couple of months - they got booted out!
Billy - The Chileans will just love your arrogant attitiude where typically “Argentina knows whats best for Chile” - according to you! Get real over the Antarctic - a big chunk is disputed by all THREE nations - that is why the UN will never rule on it and the Antarctic Treaty will continue - thats why all THREE put in their seabed claims - if anyone failed to do so they would loose out politically!
I have no cloudy idealization of Chile - I know plenty who live there and travel there quite often.

Islander1, what a mixture of thoughts! Seems you are not that acquainted with reality...

The reality is that Malvinas is in the America continent not in Europe, and the whole region supports our cause, including Chile.
And by the way who send those poweful nuclear submarines to the area?, did not scare anybody and backfire to their faces.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/09/oas-assembly-gives-full-support-to-argentina-s-malvinas-claim

“””The FICC is very disappointed that we have not seen a higher level of support for the Falklands from the world ........ ...... this contrasts with the strong support for the citizens of the Gaza strip and Berlin who also have had to withstand blockades by large powerful neighbours”“”

Berlin – Gaza – Stanley...... ......Nice slogan :-)

Keep the lobying going.....
We need more focus on this issue....

Argies getting excited,could they be near?

@Argentina:

Don't forget your duty to implement General Assembly Resolution 1514(XV) in full as the UK are doing; Argentina's refusal to comply with resolution 1514(XV) is the problem.

Shame on Argentina!

Let me spell out something.

The settlers don’t want anything to do with us, they say.
Geography has nothing to do with nothing, they say.
We are not South Americans, they say.
“Bugger off” and leave us in peace, they say.
We have always managed alone, and always will, they say.

So......... dear squatters

Go and get all your stuff from London, we say.
Find your “working force” in another continent, we say.
Keep away from our ports, airfields and countries, we say.
We don’t want you as guests or partners or nothing, we say.
Stay away from our homes, we say.

We are just closing our doors to undesired guests.
This is our right.

Go and get all your stuff from London, we say.
Find your “working force” in another continent, we say.
Keep away from our ports, airfields and countries, we say.
We don’t want you as guests or partners or nothing, we say.
Stay away from our homes, we say.

I think this will come to haunt you when the oil starts to flow :-)

You.....think?

@Think: Argentina's rights are restricted by resolution 1514(XV), which requires Argentina is required to comply:

“All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.”

Argentina's repressive actions are in clear violation of General Assmebly Resolution 1514(XV).

Argentina should cease repressive measures & implement resolution 1514(XV), as passed unanimously by the General Assembly and for which Argentina voted to apply to the Islanders.

Shame on Argentina!

As always, the Argentines are the same arrogants that can take desitions for us. Do you know that the Punta Arenas Mayor was recriminated from the Argentine Embassy to Chile because a delegation of public schools students were visiting Stanley during 3 weeks in a trainning travel forbiding us wich people we wish to keep a relationship?? I live on Punta Arenas and here the people are very concerned and very ungry with the sea blocking from our “neighbours” to our legitime right to deal with every country that we wish. Is a normal attitude for Argentines to break the Treats (we suffered it with the 1979 almost war when they not respected the Crown jugdemment as they have signed to in a precedent treat and with the cutting gas flow some years ago).
The solution is to easy, I think.... Just let the people that live on the Islands vote what they wants !!! They are the only one that can decide if they are Argentinian o Falklaners.
If you look back in the South America's Cone history, you will find that Argentina's governmemts always have had one special “issue” to distract the Argentines when the internal situation is too bad, using our country first and The Falklands now. Actually, the worst business for them would be to retrieve the Islands because they will be loosen the best way to hide the real state of the nation.
I can't understand why Chilean governments have backed up the neighbours pretension last UNASUR meeting. Mr. Piñera must understand that this is a “bilateral issue” as well as we ask for our boundaries issues with our neighbours, Argentina among them.
The Magellan Strait and its entrances are free navigation waters as the international laws say and the 1982 Treat between Argentina and Chile demands it as compulsory. Even the territorial waters must be allowed to pacific navigation for vessel from any flag without a special solicitude to do so.
The Antarctic issue for us is the same with Argentina and UK. Both of them have taken part of our pretension.

(16)Domingo ....
For once
Stop pasting the same again and again and tell me:

Wich legislation, resolution, ruling or whatever compels Argentina or any country or person in the world to conduct business with an undesired customer?

But you......don't.

Sooner or later, Chile and other South American countries will come to realise that their continent contains two dictatorships camouflaged with the trappings of democracy. They will then realise the long-term aims of the regimes of Argentina and Venezuela. The Argentine and Venezuelan peoples will then have a choice between evicting these self-serving leaders and attempting REAL democracy OR descending into obscurity and poverty.

One wonders why, if Argentina has such massive support throughout South America, it is necessary for it to continually remind (bully) its neighbours?

In point of fact, the situation on the western edge of the South Atlantic is more than reminiscent of that around Somalia. The only difference is that around Somalia it is, supposedly, ex-fishermen, whilst in the South Atlantic is a quasi-government.

The result around Somalia has been a Combined Naval Task Force with vessels from Australia, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, India, Iran, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Netherlands, Pakistan, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, United Kingdom and United States. Worth noting that, although Somalia is in Africa, there are no vessels from African countries. Wonder if Cameron and Obama are currently discussing something similar for the South Atlantic?

Any of them compels YOU to conduct business with undesired customers FOR YOU....you'r right....... BUT THE FALKLANERS ARE VERY WELCOMED CUSTOMERS TO US !!! And we expect to keep them as friends and customers in a long term deal...

Please, first do a retrospective analisys of your past acomplisment with the treats and international resolutions and after that start to teach to the others how they must act.

Oh good, I was starting to nod off, so little news these days that we're reduced to newborn babies without documents and this. The Falklands Chamber of Commerce is bemoaning the trading loss to Chile!

Well ok, Think is right in that if Argentina does not wish to trade with the Falkland Islands then that is up to them. If Chile is so weak as to bow to pressue from BA then that is up to them.

It doesn't really matter! We have always been an island(s) nation, blockades have come and gone and the British persist. We are in the South Atlantic and that is just not likely to change. The islanders will trade elsewhere, simple as that. If the oil comes in then they'll be up to their eyebrows in luxury goods ..... it's a chance worth waiting for!

This is nothing but a storm in a teacup .... but hey, if it lifts the little Argentine ego :-)

(17) Sergio Vega
Hello Señor Vega
You, as a Chilean have all reason to profoundly distrust Argentina because of our past political behavior.
But you know also that things in Chile and Argentina have changed dramatically in the last 30 years.
We are not trying to teach or force Chile to do anything.
Both our governments are cooperating on a much-needed regional integration.

Malvinas is a important political issue for Argentina and your politicians, from the mayor of Punta Arenas to the new conservative President realize and accept that.

I, as a Patagonian have been bombarded with “official” anti Chilean stories most of my life.
You as a Patagonian have surely had the same experience with “oficcial” anti Argentinean stories.
But:.........
Personally, I’m surrounded by Chileans, some are my very good friends, I have been to Chile dozens of times, and I NEVER found any real reason for this political induced hatred between our two countries.

Maybe your personal experience is different?
Cordiales saludos

Comment removed by the editor.

Continuing the thread about my personal relationships.......

About those squatting andie, still, bennie kelpers:
Nice people most of them... Stubborn as hell... As our Welsh or Irish.....
I have to admit that when spending time with any of them, I constantly end as the “Unter-Mensch”.
They always drink me under the table :-)

“Go and get all your stuff from London, we say.
Find your “working force” in another continent, we say.
Keep away from our ports, airfields and countries, we say.
We don’t want you as guests or partners or nothing, we say.
Stay away from our homes, we say.”
'Our Countries'????? And what would be 'your' countries??????? Argentina and??????????
'I’m surrounded by Chileans, some are my very good friends,”
That is on a par with 'some of my best friends are jews/darkies/argentinians'.

Out of curiosity, just how many treaties have been broken over the years?
Sergio, your comments are a welcome breath of fresh air!
Glad to see someone else standing up to the bully!

(25) Once again for “Frank the Yank”

Argentina is, economically, politically an diplomatically, working on our neighbors (Chile, Uruguay and Brazil) to do the same as we do.
Exercise their right to do business with whom they choose.
Our offer must,of course, be better than the competition.
And it is.
“We Stand United and they make a better profit”
That would be the parole.

G'day Sergio
Sergio speaks for my many Chilean friends....
'Think' speaks for the rabid nutters who have been running Argentina for the last 70 or so years....
Amazing to see what 70 years of economic mismanagement can do... Argentina once had the equal highest standard of living in the world along with Australia.....
When in doubt...rattle a sabre...

” ... Argentina is, economically, politically an diplomatically, working on our neighbors (Chile, Uruguay and Brazil) to do the same as we do...“

That's politic/diplomatic speak for 'strongarming” or 'coercing', although I doubt Argentina is bis enough to get away with it in Brazil's case ....

As for better offers ... well that remains to be seen .... Argentina is in need of gas from all accounts, maybe she'll be able to buy it from the FIG in the future, although that may depend on her attitude now.

And South America standing united ... now that would be a sight :-)

Exercise their right to do business with whom they choose.

Including the Falklands if they so wish,free from the pathetic intreaties of their spoilt brat neighbour

(29)
”And South America standing united ... now that would be a sight :-)”

It is indeed young one, It is indeed......

This is the “islander” who complains, Mr Spink. He may live on the islands and be and “islander”, as he claims, how can you deny then that your are a tool of British illegal occupation of Argentine land???

”Roger first came to the Falklands in 1986 from the UK to take up a post with the Falkland Islands Company Ltd (FIC). In 2001 he was appointed the General Manager and Director of FIC the main retailers in the Islands and operators of Penguin Travel. He is President of the Chamber of Commerce, Director of the Tourist Board and a Trustee of Falklands Conservation” (http://www.falklandislands.com/contents/view/239)

@32. Before we start, can you clarify your antecedents? Are you another of Twinky's kindergarten friends? Are you an Argentine fanatic? Have you got a usable brain or has it been “scrubbed” by your government?

And now to Twinky at, initially, 18. “Wich legislation, resolution, ruling or whatever compels Argentina or any country or person in the world to conduct business with an undesired customer?” Easy. None. Now one for you. Which resolution, ruling or whatever gives Argentina the right to interfere in another country's trade, business or whatever? And while you are asking other people to “ Stop pasting the same again and again”, why not take your own advice? No.22. No point in you “smarming” around Sergio Vega. He clearly knows Argentines for what they are. The local bullies who got their butts kicked in '82 and are heading for another kicking. No.24. Argentine. Unter-Mensch. Bully. And the connection is .............Argentina! No.27. “Exercise their right to do business with whom they choose.” Without any interference from Argentina? Can't manage that, can you? No.31. Everyone would be OK without you, kiddykins.

Let's see if you can raise your game to the level of an under-achieving adolescent.

I suppose you claim to be an Argentine Mr Martinez?

But, I thought “Martinez” was a Spanish surname, no? You are just another Spaniard implanted into South America..

“Implanted”. Would that be as in “colonist”? Or, more accurately, “rebel colonist”?

Ah Mr Martinez, so he is a relatively recent immigrant, so what. He was still democratically elected by the people living there. Rather like Bill Luxton was in the recent elections, Bill's family emigrated to the Falklands in the 1840s. In 1982, he and his family were unceremoniously deported from the land of his birth by the brutal Argentine military dictatorship when they launched their ill-considered invasion of a peaceful island community.

The Falklands are entirely under the control of the Falkland Islands Government, democractically elected.

Martinez, is that a Mapuche, Guarani name? No? So when did your family immigrate to a land wrenched from its native inhabitants? When do you plan on handing it back to the people your ancestors displaced? Well the survivors of your genocidal campaigns anyway.

“Well the survivors of your genocidal campaigns anyway.”

Not many of those left...

Think, Not sure who over here ever said we want nothing to do with Argentina-under the current bullyboy aggression tactics of course we dont - but if Agrentina can grow up again and act as a mature democracy we can live alongside each other, albeit with differences and find a way to manage them - look at Spain and Gibraltar.
Mr Spink is not a politician, he was however elected to the positions he holds by the other members of those organisations - many of those who elected him are islanders for many generations - he speaks the truth here. Another who speaks the truth and reality is Mr Vega from Chile.

Hola Think! (#16):

“Which legislation, resolution, ruling or whatever compels Argentina or any country or person in the world to conduct business with an undesired customer?”

Well for starters members of the WTO, of which both the AR & UK are, may not discriminate between trading members under the rules of GATT, GATS & TRIPS.

Obviously, I would also contend repressive measures from any member of the UN against the Islanders are prohibited because of the provisions of General Assembly Resolution 1514(XV):

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_1514

Please accept my apologies if extracting relevant parts of the text annoys you, but it is simply to illustrate the parts of this declaration which apply to this situation, where the General Assembly affirms that:

“...peoples may, for their own ends, freely dispose of their natural wealth and resources without prejudice to any obligations arising out of international economic co-operation, based upon the principle of mutual benefit, and international law.”

& against which Argentine actions repress the rights of the Islanders under this resolution, which is prhibited.

Also, when Argentina's Congress passes bills which deliberately discriminate against the Islanders on the basis of their belonging to a minority overseas ethnic group based on Argentine State Policy of dehumanisation of the Islanders through public bigotry to enact systematic political and economic persecution because of their ethnicity, Argentina commits crimes against humanity, for which it is culpable

@Think(#22): I for one am glad that over the past 30 years Argentina & Chile have found ways to reconcile differences & find positive ways to cooperate & create lasting friendship

Similarly, I think it would be great if Argentina & the Islanders/UK could also further Détente. I still see trade agreements as positive ways for all to share achieving great things by working together

Cordiales saludos to you too!

(38) Islander1

Argentina committed a gigantic blunder in 1982 by invading the island.
Even if that invasion was planed and executed by a bunch of uniformed criminals, Argentina cannot deny its responsibility and accepted the consequences.

The Falklands committed a gigantic blunder in 2010 by licensing the unilaterally prospecting of oil.
Even if this prospecting is planned and executed by a bunch of white-collar London capitalists, Falklands cannot deny its responsibility and accept the consequences.

Argentina is taking the stand of: “We lost the war but we will make their life miserable”. They’re using any means to get their way, blockading started after 1982. With the rise of the Kirchners to power made things worse and it will continue, till England comes around and “rattles the cages”. Ain’t going to be pretty, there is not a peaceful way to get them to release the unlawful pressure exercised on the Falklanders. For decades they’ve been doing “homework” at the UN and rallying Southamerican countries on their behalf.

“Similarly, I think it would be great if Argentina & the Islanders/UK could also further Détente. I still see trade agreements as positive ways for all to share achieving great things by working together”

Domingo, nice words; I support you, but please delete the word UK & UK presence and then we can move forward; UK is a strange body in south atlantic & south america. Use resolution 1514 (your preferred UN law) to tell britain to leave, so we can live in peace, prosperity and making business. UK presence is making your life miserable and is the only factor in south atlantic that can be excluded; not argentina nor kelpers can leave anywhere, only UK.
I think that sooner than later someone in kelperland will start talking about independence and Billy Hayes will support that, UK should leave.

W/out England's support the Falklanders will be history. Argentina will move in next day. In 1982 Leopoldo Galtieri's strategy was to invade the islands thinking that England will not fight...wrong !!...they will do it again !!

Liberty, your worry has a a solution; UN blue helmets in Mount Pleasant.

Billy, like in Haiti?

are you saying that kelperland is like haiti??; I don´t think so.

blue helmets are a fine solution for paranoia; they probed to be succesfull in many places much more dangerous than south atlantic; for example chipre.

Erm Think, the Falkland Islanders are quite entitled to blunder in their own territory. It's got nothing to do with Argentina.

@Billy(#42): Looking at the history of why the UK has territories in the South Atlantic, the UK presence in no more strange than the presence of Spanish & Portuguese speaking states in South America.

Obviously I understand that it would be easier for Argentina & Chile to further their territorial expansion policies, without the UK presence, and proponents of an expansionist Argentina will naturally seek to protray the UK's presence as unnatural to the uninitiated. However, a reasonable review of history satisfactorily explains the status quo.

@Billy(#44): Demilitarisation on both sides might be a good way to lower tensions... how about Blue Hats in Patagonia & Blue Hats on the Islands?

the only strange thing is the link between Malvinas and UK; it won´t be strange an english speaking state like USA in south atlantic.

blue hats in patagonia are not necesary; patagonia is not in the dispute area.

I understand that is unrreal to think in any posible solution without considering that UK should leave, I think that this is the unnegotiable demand of Argentina; the rest is negotiable.

Billy:
“blue helmets are a fine solution for paranoia”

I gather that you're pro argentinean, that's ok to side with totalitarianism, it’s your choice. The UN is worthless, today and when it was resurrected in 1945. Their members are “infested” with all kind of ideologies, religious and else, basically they're powerless. They don't pay their bills, as an example they owe uruguayan soldiers serving at the UN, more than a year’s salary. Their building in NY is supported by the US; they owe money to them too. The Falklands are since 1833 the land of the Falklanders and is their choice to be part of the Commonwealth of Nations.

Kelperland is not part of commonwelth, kelperland is part of britain, and that is precisely the problem.
Perhaps it would be ok for Argentina to accept that keperland as a free nation be part of commonwelth, and why not part of mercosur.
But please, don´t expect Argentina to accept britain military and political presence; that won´t happen.

51 Billy Hayes: “Kelperland”, as you put it, is part of the Commonwealth. It is not part of Britain, but an overseas territory of the UK, exactly the same as Anguilla, Bermuda and the the Cayman Islands are. It has the same status as Aruba does as an overseas territory of the Netherlands (and Venezuela does not claim it) and the same as New Caledonia (no claim from Australia or New Zealand) and French Guiana (no claim from Brazil or Suriname either) do as overseas territories/departments of France.
All of these countries are politically self-governing. The only reason that there is a British military presence in the Falkland Islands is to deter any potential aggressive action from Argentina. Were it not for the claim by Argentina, there would be no real need for this military presence. This is the reason I have given the other examples of overseas territories. Some of them have relatively small populations and would not be able to defend themselves against a larger neighbouring country. And yet they don't need to defend themselves, as their neighbours, despite, in some cases, having a land border, do not threaten them.
Argentina wants the Falkland Islands to be part of Argentina irrespective of the Falkland islanders wishes, so please don't try to say that Argentina would be happy with an independent Falkland Islands.

Let them continue, once they overstep their mark they will get a spanking. If they want to keep acting like a child Argentina should be treated as such.

They are clearly underestermating the stubborness of us Brits. They did it in 82 and still did not learn. Silly blockade will not work.

This kind of bullying attitude, blockading, etc., etc. is Argentina's modus operandi. This is the same they did on the Argentine-Uruguayan border. They blocked the bridge that connected Uruguay and Argentina for almost 3 years causing huge economic losses for Uruguay -their tiny 3 million inhabitants neighbour-, not to mention all the difficulties that many families having relatives on the other side of the border had to go through.
Although this kind of actions is obviously against international laws, the Argentine government funded and encouraged these illegal activities until they were forced to quit after the verdict from The Hague International Court of Justice.
Argentines think that they own anything that's near to their country as they do with the Falklands and to a certain extent with Uruguay. Sorry, anything that's small enough. I'm sure they wouldn't mess with their big neighbour Brazil...

Roger Spink president of the Chamber of Commerce is british and move to the islands in1986, the governor of this British colony information is below. Are there any real islander left? or they need to be shipped from London everytime?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Alan HuckleAlan Edden Huckle (born June 15, 1948) is a British colonial administrator. He was the commissioner of the British Indian Ocean Territory and the British Antarctic Territory from 2001 until 2004, when he left to become the governor of Anguilla in the Caribbean. He was the Governor of Anguilla from May 28, 2004 to July 2006, having been appointed in July 2003.

In July 2005 it was announced that Huckle would soon be leaving Anguilla to become Governor of the British overseas territory of the Falkland Islands and the Commissioner for South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, all of which are located in the South Atlantic Ocean. He was succeeded in Anguilla by Andrew George, on 10 July 2006.

55 Marco: You clealy have no idea whatsoever about how the Falkland Islands is administered and the constitutional history of Britain, the Commonwealth countries and the remaining British overseas territories.
The Falkland Islands, like all British overseas territories are self-governing. The only responsibility that the UK has for the Falkland Islands is in matters of foreign affairs and defence. That is what the Governor is there for: he is an appointee of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, he is the Queen's representative and acts very much as an Ambassador would do in other countries.
Australia, Canada and New Zealand all have a Governor-General who does very much the same job, except that in these countries he or she does not need to get involved in foreign affairs and defence.
Your point, if there was one, is absolutely non-sensical!

Jajajaja so funny this guy, please do me a favor and go home british pirate.

Malvinas belong to Argentina! Las Malvinas son Argentinas!

Regards.

I take it that this is what passes for intellectual dialogue in Argentina?!

@harrier61

“Which resolution, ruling or whatever gives Argentina the right to interfere in another country's trade, business or whatever?”

Just the power to do it Harrier you should know that are you not form UK?

@Liberty
“They’re using any means to get their way, blockading started after 1982”

This is not true we are just starting, our means can go far beyond of whatever you can just imagine.

“With the rise of the Kirchners to power made things worse and it will continue, till England comes around and “rattles the cages”

If England comes here you will see how serious we are about it this time. So there would be your best opportunity to joint the Royal Nave/Army/RAF, SAS and stand to the side you are currently on.
But surely you will be in a coffee bar drinking tea in Buenos Aires to feel safe.

@ PomInOz

“Kelperland” (by the way good name for the new nation) get independent in association with Argentina. Let’s says the same status as UK is given to they as an overseas territory of Argentina. After all they say to be conformable with this status so why not to become an overseas territory of Argentina?. Brits out, we happy, slander happy win win solution.

And for those how keep saying that don’t want anything with Argentina, my answer is:

Fine boys but don’t cry like girls and face the consequences the process of growing up is very painful and you haven’t see nothing yet about how painful can be.

By the way the 4 typhoon can be used to carry supplies from London? And a carrier?

May be the Royal Navy can find a solution and install a kind of some floating “Home Depot” and make some profit like this so the can avoid some cuts, cuts, cuts. Haha

(52) PomIn Oz

You are absolutely right about Malvinas independence not being our cup of tea.
We want then. Full Stop.

But please coment:
The Settlers don’t want anything to do with us, they say.
Geography has nothing to do with nothing, they say.
We are not South Americans, they say.
“Bugger off” and leave us in peace, they say.
We have always managed alone, and always will, they say.

For us they are squatters and if and when our four countries in the South Cone agree, is nothin wrong or illegal in telling them:

Go and get all your stuff from London, we say.
Find your “working force” in another continent, we say.
Keep away from our ports, airfields and countries, we say.
We don’t want you as guests or partners or nothing, we say.
Stay away from our homes, we say.

We just close our doors to undesired guests.
This is our right.
Or what?

@ PomInOz,
“You clealy have no idea whatsoever about how the Falkland Islands is administered and the constitutional history of Britain”

I may not know much, however I know some of the story of the old broke British Empire, that sail around the world stealing land and evicted local population like Chagos Islands and Malvinas, stole national treasures around the world(visit your own museums), starved millions of Irish, atrocities in India and many other countries, enslaved millions of Africans, killed thousands in Irak based on a big lie(no WMD) and British Petroleum got some nice deals thanks to the blood of innocents civilians, no to mention the released of Libyan terrorist who murder 270 people in Lockerbie, and again British Petroleum and UK Gov. had their hands all over “this great deal”.
I do not care how the modern term is nowadays but the fact is that Malvinas is still a colony in the year of 2010.

It is truly inspiring to see the arrogance Argentina has, not only on the Falkland Islands, but over its neighbours. The attitude of, we know best for all of South America is truly laughable, and to suggest that the Falklanders are not in touch with reality is embarrassing. Please read the Human Rights that the UN has drafted up, please, it may actually teach you something. Those rights are for every single human being in the world, and to try and strip these rights of a people because they dont want you is purely arrogant. But I am sure you will twist history, facts or logic to support your arguement, especially when you bring up Bingham! LAUGHABLE!

Argentines must be so proud of themselves! the Kelpers acknowledge that they are a nuisance! Why dont you turn this day into a national holiday? You are a nuisance and your backward, misguided, indoctrinated attitude, ignorant, arrogant (that word again?) and even spiteful view of my home is disgraceful. But you know what? I would not have it any other way. I love waking up in the morning, and seeing the British flag everywhere, i love coming on Mercopress and read all comments from Think, nitrojuan, avargas and all the others, and seeing how bitter, twisted and arrogant. It is a real pleasure. Please keep it up.

Always nice to see the Argentine's get all angry and riled when somebody dares actually tell them they are behaving like a bunch of cunts, Argentina always has had distinct difficulties getting to grips with the truth.

Nice to see Think and Nicotine where having a nice chat about myself on another thread, highly entertaining, and for the record Think I don't really give a flying fuck about the whole clan family whatever thing or whatever nuttiness you were on about, just content yourself in the knowledge that in said argument i tore you a new arsehole.

Now do be a good boy and grow some kind of intellectual capacity, it's getting increasingly tiresome doing the thinking for our Argentine deniers of self determination (or at least to anyone who isn't Argentine).

For the low down on my lack of presence loom up the Turkish Republic of North Cyprus a country which declared self determination from an oppressive majority and has done very well economically despite not being a recognized entity, by the end of this year if the Greeklings don't play game, the country will be officially recognized, the moral of the story? Irredentist claims against peoples who do not wish to be part of your sorry arsehole state always fail.

The Falklands are no different.

OK, Argentinians, more like it!
Firstly, 59, NicoDin: you do make a reasonable, if unworkable, point. Even if you forget about the 1982 Conflict and the current actions of the Arg Government, the Falkland Islands have a vastly different culture to their South American neighbours: language, laws, driving on the left, etc, as to make such a possibility, on a practical level, impossible. My own view is that the Falkland Islands should be and are working towards independence.
Now, 60, Think - we meet again! As I said, even independence would not deter Argentina from pursuing its claim. So, what do the Falklands do? You don't want a British presence and yet, without it, Argentina is likely to use force to gain what it hasn't been able to gain by “negotiations”. It's a Catch 22, isn't it?
I'll try to deal with the points that you make in your post one-by-one, if that's alright, shortly. The points that I may make are not likely to be short, however!
You may need to post again after each comment of mine so that I can do so, as I've not worked out if one can post, submit, and post again, without someone else posting in between!
I'm still a bit of Luddite!

I just read this wonderful poem!
by Think
“The Settlers don’t want anything to do with us, they say.
Geography has nothing to do with nothing, they say.
We are not South Americans, they say.
“Bugger off” and leave us in peace, they say.
We have always managed alone, and always will, they say.

For us they are squatters and if and when our four countries in the South Cone agree, is nothin wrong or illegal in telling them:

Go and get all your stuff from London, we say.
Find your “working force” in another continent, we say.
Keep away from our ports, airfields and countries, we say.
We don’t want you as guests or partners or nothing, we say.
Stay away from our homes, we say.

We just close our doors to undesired guests.”

A little pearl of this article about Cyprus:
“British colonial policies also promoted ethnic polarization. The British applied the principle of ”divide and rule,“ setting the two groups against each other to prevent combined action against colonial rule. For example, when Greek Cypriots rebelled in the 1950s, the colonial administration established an all-Turkish police force, known as the Auxiliary Police, to combat Greek Cypriots. This and similar practices contributed to intercommunal animosity.
”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

65, Marco: Yeah, Shakespearean!!
Anyway, Think, “The Settlers don't want anything to do with us”: that's not quite right, is it! In the past few years, there have been a number of agreements between the UK, Falkland Islands and Argentina over fisheries and oil. Both agreements have been unilaterally abandoned by Argentina. The downturn in the fisheries industry in Argentina has been blamed, yet again conveniently, by Argentina on the Falkland Islands; “They stole our fish” being one memorable headline in Argentina a few years ago! Now that oil is an issue, the Arg Government forget to inform its public that it did have an agreement for exploitation with the UK and the Falkland Islands but it foolishly spat the dummy out and now, as a consequence, is very unlikely to be involved in any financial rewards from such exploitation.
As for having anything to do with Argentina in terms of sovereignty, again, there is such a huge cultural difference. It simply would not work.

Mr Roger Spinks said: Argentina blockading the Falklands with “no respect for Islanders human rights”
He is worried that he will not get Argentinian beef anymore, and know his only option is to get it from London(Europe) where he came from.
Mr Spinks you need to see the positive side of that, you will loose some weight.

(67)PomInOz

Ok, One by One:

The settlers don’t really want anything to do with us.
You said it yourself:
”As for having anything to do with Argentina in terms of sovereignty, again, there is such a huge cultural difference. It simply would not work”
Sovereignty is the Only Issue for Argentina.
Be it as a “100 Years Lease Back Hong Kong” model that would insure all the Islanders, their children and their grandchildren the right of self-determination, to live and die on the Islands or whatever other proposal we could imagine, the only answer we are getting is “bugger off”.
The developments since February 2010 have demonstrated what the whole issue is about.... And it is not self-determination.

Sovereignty is the Only Issue for Argentina

Pride :-)

68, Marco: Brilliant! I know Mr Spinks personally and he could definitely benefit from, and I have told him as such (in jest and at a distance, of course...well, he's a big guy!) not eating any more beef!!
69, Think: hang on, let me deal with your other points first! Especially don't throw in proper legal (although inapplicable in the Falklands' case) arguments!
“Geography”: well, firstly, and slightly humourously, the Falkland Islands are geographically distinct from South America. They are actually African! Pangea and all that! Given that they are African, and given the historical British impulse to colonise the African continent, I don't see what the Argentinian problem is!
More seriously (possibly!), I posted earlier on about the other overseas territories - not just the UK's overseas territories, but the Dutch and the French. There are about 50 or so countries/territories that have the same legal status in international law as the Falkland Islands. There are about 4 over whom sovereignty is disputed: Gibraltar and the Falklands being two. So, in the vast majority of cases, geography is not an issue.
Argentina should be grateful that it is not the French who are the de facto and de jure “masters” (and I say this tongue in cheek, of course! In both cases!) of the Falklands/Malouines, as, despite their reputation for waving the white flag, when it comes to dealing with more recent disputes, the French would not put up with the current Argentine harrassment - they tend to sink first and look who've they've sunk after!!
Unfortunately, the British FCO are a bunch of quivering something-or-others! (Tongue-in-cheek, once again!).

59 NicoDin:
We just close our doors to undesired guests.
This is our right.

And it's their right to sit outside your door.

:)

Continuing on (and it's very, very late here in OZ!): “We are not South American”. The Falkland Islanders are of British descent - I think that we can all agree on that. So, very simply, they are not. To get into the “historical” argument about the “settlement” of the Islands would be to rehash something that will be vehemently denied by the Argentine side (from my point of view) and denied from the British side (if posted from an Argentinian point of view).
So, let's forget that (please, pretty please, but if you don't want to, I'm quite happy to debate it) and concentrate on what I think is the erroneous view of the heritage of the population of the Falkland Islands.
Most of the uninformed view of the Falkland Islands is that they are somehow of very recent “implantation” in the Islands, for example, Think, your question as to the “nationality” of the Falkland Islands cricket team. This is simply a fallacy. The vast majority of Falkland Islanders' families have been in the Islands since around the time that the Argentine nation was founded. There has been, and always will be, immigration, short-term and long-term, to the Islands, as there is in any developing nation - Australia, my newly-welcoming homeland, for example!! So, to cite the President of the FI Chamber of Commerce as a “British implant”, when he has made the Islands his home of over 15 years, or the Governor of the Falkland Islands as another “British implant”, as some Machievellian plot by the Brits to keep the Argentinians out of their “birthright” is much, much, much more funny than Think's “poem”!!!!!

(71)PomInOz
Geography doesn’t matter for you..... ok. Distance doesn’t matter for you........ok.
Then travel the distance, pay the price and forget about us.
Please do not use irrelevant or “long ago resolved cases” as “examples” for the unique Malvinas Issue.
The Decolonization Committee calls the Falklands/Malvinas a special case.
GB/FIG just doesn’t care.
For them this “little UN group” is biased and unrepresentative. (Even if the 24 members represent more than half the population of the planet!)
The OAS backs 100% the Argentinean position. Including all the areas english speaking Commonwealth countries!
GB/FIG just doesn’t care.
For them this “Latin dancing club” is irrelevant.
Your military “innuendos” (even if you include the “Tongue-in-cheek” concept) are unnecessary.... You know as well as I do how stupid it is to shoot first. (At least, that’s the impression I have of you)

74, Think: I did ask you not to ask any more questions before I'd answered your other ones...however...!
I'm not too sure what you mean about the irrelevant or long ago resolved cases. Please be very specific, so that I can respond very specifically.
Yes, you are quite right about the impression you have of me on the military aspect - I am trying to make light of a very serious issue.
As for the UN aspect of this, there is no issue whatsoever, and you should know better. Unless the resolution is passed by the Security Council, any resolution cannot be binding (I hope that I don't need to go into how that will never happen in the Security Council! Rightly or wrongly).
So, what you are left with is a non-binding resolution “requesting” that the UK “negotiate” with the Argentinian Government over an issue that the UK Government states is not an issue - “the UK has no doubt about its sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”. And when Argentina states that it wants to “negotiate” over the Islands, what it means is to have talks about the “handover” of the Islands to Argentina. In anyone's book, that is not “negotiations” about sovereignty!

(74)PomInOz

I totally agree on the Britishness of the British settlers of the British Territory of Malvinas.
But in this case it is being used only in a negative sense. If so; please “ be my guest” by “not being my guest” if you get what I mean.

The Cricket Issue was just a reaction about the surprising (for me:-) result of the first match where the Costa Ricans where beaten by the Malvinas team!
If you subtract the sheilas, the children, the elderly, the hopeless and the un-gentleman, you do not have many left in the Islands to build a Team!
Later “things fell into place” and Malvinas ended last.

76, Think: I fail to see how you think that the “Britishness” of the Falkland Islands is a negative.
As for the cricket, we punched above our weight in the ODI series, absolutely! To say that “things fell into place” in the T20 matches is to be very disrespectful to both Mexico and Costa Rica. The Falkland Islands came very close to a huge upset against Mexico - we had them at 75 for 6 at one point - and then our bowling let them get away. And I put myself at the forefront of letting them get away, as I had an absolutely rubbish series with the ball! In the next game, that we played on the same day, the Costa Ricans played very well and set a total that even the Mexicans would have found difficult to chase.

@PomInOz

“vastly different culture to their South American neighbours: language, laws, driving on the left, etc, as to make such a possibility, on a practical level”

And what is the problem? Language are we not talking in your language now mate?

Driving? I can drive in UK why you cannot drive here?

Brits are no capable or have a learning disease? In fact when they come here (because they do often) they have to drive to the right. I didn’t see any of them dying for doing that and you?

We have made also our own Queen band “Dios Salve a La Reina” Featuring Zethe on Drums haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgsi1LYPps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgsi1LYPps

Different culture?
Come on mate they have more different culture with a yank than with us.

Questions
What is the currency of UK
Yank: Dollar?
Argie: Pound

Name one of the most representatives Punk bands in UKI in the 70

Yank: Iggy Pop?
Argie: Sex Pistols Anarchy in Ukiiii

IF I talking about Royal Family, power, influence, North Sea, tradition, and a woman that rise love and hate at the same time I’m talking about what nation’s head of Estate?

Yank: that it is easy buddy I’ve read the answer in the WSJ you are talking about “Cristina Kirchner”.

Culture I’ve heard several times in UKI when refereed to a old pop UKI band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgsi1LYPps

(75)PomInOz

The “Britishness” of the Islanders is NOT a negative.
But they ar using it negatively.
Bugger off mate....... We are British............ Full Stop.......... End of discussion.......

So it was you that lost that match! No wonder they deported you to the Penal Colony :-)

Your UN evaluation is absolutely correct for the time being.
Argentina continues to go the long diplomatic “Desert March” just in case things change and because it looks good..............
And that’s why we are using the “regional geographical economic” card.
Much easier to get our four Countries to work together on the relative simple and “cheap” project (Please don’t start telling me how much we distrust each other, how much they hate us etc etc.. In this respect I have to say that you Brits are totally ignorant and misinformed about current S.A. realities) of isolating the Malvinas, making most economical activity unviable.

78 NicoDin:

I believe you miss his point. They could speak spanish or drive on the other side of the road. They Choose not to.

”Brits are no capable or have a learning disease? In fact when they come here (because they do often) they have to drive to the right. I didn’t see any of them dying for doing that and you?“

We are totally capable of doing so in other nations , in our own? no. the right of choise in ones own nation.

”Different culture?
Come on mate they have more different culture with a yank than with us.”
Do you actually believe half of this stuff you come out with?

78 NicoDin: Sorry, mate, I'm going to have to ignore your extremely amusing post (I take it that is what it was?!), to finally answer Think!
“Bugger off” and “Leave us alone”: it's sad to say that this is the attitude of the Falkland Islanders, but this is as a result of the Argentinian action over the past 25 years.
When the FI say, bugger off and leave us alone, they mean simply leave us to decide what we want for our future. Argentina cannot respect that. Argentina cannot also respect its other neighbours and abrogates its duties in respect of international maritime laws by trying to harrass shipping on the high seas. So, when it comes to the Falkland Islanders saying “bugger off and leave us alone”, they are not alone!

Look ........I dont care who started in 1519, 1756 1833 1982 or wenever....
We are hearing the “bugger offs” all the time.
Loud and Clear
We are seeing you drilling...... “Bugger off”
We are told that there is nothing we can do......“Bugger off”
We are witnessing a War Mongering lobbying campaign......“Bugger off or...”
And it is not only the Islanders giving us all those “Bugger offs”

And here we go again with this “Maritime Law” thing...
Patrolling the waters is complicated, messy, legally problematic, potentially conflictive and expensive.
That's why we are working on the Ports.
Our Ports.
Our.

Comment removed by the editor.

Will stick to driving on the left thanks Nicotine

Argentina Car Accidents.
According to government data Traffic accidents in Argentina are a serious problem. According to the US State department: “Drivers frequently ignore traffic laws and vehicles often travel at excessive speeds.” In 2006 there were about 7,500 people killed in the country in traffic crashes.

@Billy(#49): To me the link between the UK & the Islanders seems wholly natural & normal; after all the majority of the Islanders are from the same British ethnic group and the two peoples agree on most things and share a common history, culture, language, politics and belief system

I suggested a demilitarised zone in of Patagonia, as it was the staging post for the Argentine military build-up for the 1982 invasion of the Falklands (& S. Georgia). It is important both sides accept Blue Helmets to demonstrate their sincere wish to make a surprise attack impossible, given Argentina broke international law in 1982 & currently maintains repressive measures against the Islanders, Argentina needs to demonstrate good will with good deeds; there must be reciprocity as a one-sided deal cannot work in the long term - the demonstrable removal of a credible military threat by Argentina would be a very clear act of reconciliation, good will & trust

I think the UK could consider withdrawing a military presence on the Falklands if an equally reliable & robust defensive alternative could be provided to the Islanders & they were willing to agree to the change & wanted to choose a fully independent status. I am sure that the UK would provide a very robust defence treaty with the Islanders to guarantee their independence & I'm sure the UN would enforce their independence if both the UK & AR fully complied with UN resolutions 1514(XV)

Note, I don't think this would ever change the sovereignty status of the remaining British territories in the South Atlantic. But even in that instance AR's further territorial disputes could be taken to the ICJ, I think the UK would agree

@Billy (#51): Of course, reality is that today Argentina has no say whatsoever in the affairs of the Falklands because it is firmly British by choice, with much discord due to the war of 1982

One day I hope Argentines, British & Islanders somehow forgive & forget to become firm friends, not bitter foes. Imagine!

Think: right, I see (kind of) where you were going with your point. I disagree with it, but I see what you mean. And there is no middle ground, unfortunately, at least, not at the moment.
We have, on the one hand, a relatively young nation, trying to get along and assert itself on the world's stage. Then, there is another relatively young nation, called the Falkland Islands, trying to do the same!
Seriously, I can't see any middle ground right now. The Falkland Islands, as a democratic, self-governing, economically independent nation, wish to retain their ties to Britain. Britain, as the country tasked with defending the Islanders' wishes and the islands themselves, will not accept any discussions as to the sovereignty of the islands. Argentina will not accept anything less than full sovereignty of the islands.
There appears to be - hang one, sack that - there is no negotiating room whatsoever on either side.
So, it is not just the FI or the UK who are saying, “bugger off”, but Argentina also!

”I think the UK could consider withdrawing a military presence on the Falklands if an equally reliable & robust defensive alternative could be provided to the Islanders & they were willing to agree to the change & wanted to choose a fully independent status. I am sure that the UK would provide a very robust defence treaty with the Islanders to guarantee their independence & I'm sure the UN would enforce their independence if both the UK & AR fully complied with UN resolutions 1514(XV)”

I don't agree on the basis that there is no we can gaurente their satfy without a military prensence on the islands. Even if they went independant(with the money from oil) the most logical assumption would be that the UK keeps it's base as a soverign base in the islands with the costs being paid by the islanders and a defence treaty.

Aside from the fact that we want to protect the islands the UK does like to keep strategic bases all over certan areas of the world.

Oh dear , once again think is repeating himself over and over and over again.....definitely failed debating at school .
Getting back on topic... is this the same think that just a few days ago said that there was no economic blockade of the Falklands?
Think about this think...'cold' blockades never work and are never more than an irritant.... the only way to make it work is to make it 'hot' and the argentinians don't have the balls to do that as they know what the result would be.

68 Marco (#)
”Mr Roger Spinks ...
...... is worried that he will not get Argentinian beef anymore, and know his only option is to get it from London(Europe) ”
Marco... do you know where Chile gets its beef from? Paraguay and Australia... how many more years do you reckon before Argentina is importing beef..?

87, zethe: I absolutely agree with what you say. It would be nice to think that it might be otherwise were the FI to become independent. However, it is likely that they would still need to have their independence guaranteed and that could only be done by the UK maintaining its military presence there. A cut of the potential oil revenues in exchange for/in payment for this defence presence has, as I understand it, already been discussed between Stanley and London.
82, Think: the maritime law thing is a very important thing, as Argentina is in contravention of every international treaty regarding the “policing” of the high seas. It has no right to act as it is doing. At the moment, it is getting away with harrassing its near neighbours. We have already seen what happens when a Royal Navy destroyer turns up on the scene! And the RN is hog-tied by the p*ssy FCO! I look forward to the day when the Argentine navy gives any grief to a French-registered vessel. They're a bit trigger-happy, the frogs are!

My view is that both sides must make sincere efforts to find the middle ground.

There is no place for continued hostility between Argentina, Britain & the Islanders in our modern world.

Détente, trust, cooperation & friendship is what's needed. In large measures.

First, each party to decide this is the future they want to share together.
All must forgive the past to move into the future.

The longest journey begins with a single step. The journey is the reward.

(86)
We agree again. At the moment there is no middle ground.
But many things can happen.
In the 80’s we invaded you (sorry for that)
In the 90’s our neo-liberal, “internationally acclaimed” “Wall Street” President signed some ghastly cooperation agreements with you.
In the 00’s we went bankrupt thanks to the above-mentioned president and all was chaos.
In the 10’s you decided to drill and the reaction is ongoing.......................

I am aware of your “dreams” of becoming a new Brunei, but I don’t think it is going to happen.
No disrespect but you are just the crew of the “Falklands” carrier that insures Britain’s dominions on the South Atlantic.
Without that Sword of Damocles over our heads you could surely have lived undisturbed 177 x 177 more years on the Islands.

So... let’s see what happens next... and let’s hope for the best

Think, 30years of new era between Chile and Argentina- I think Sergio listed quite a few of the Agreements broken by Argentina within the last 30years.
The Islands say “bugger off” to you all the time? Now you know that is not true - time and time again our elected Govt tries to extend the hand of friendship and co-operation towards you - putting the known difficulties we have with each other to one side - so we can at least try and live along side each other as mature people.
The Arg repeated response - Sovereignty -we want it and to hell with what you the natural born population of the islands wish.
Not surprisng really then what we say back is it?
We had an Offshore Fisheries Agreement in negotiation with you. We had joint cruises to monitor fish stocks. We had interchange of information on catch levels and biomass stocks. We had interchange of information on proposals for both zone closure dates etc. etc. etc.
Who please tell me threw all that out the window? Guess who - the same country that then blames the lack of fish in their overfished zone - on us!!
Argentina stopped all charter flights overflying Arg. territiory in 2003. Who suggested a middleground “way forward” by having an openskies policy - charter flights coming into the Islands from anywhere - including direct ones from Buenos Aires? Who threw that idea out of the window - despite the officials and diplomats in that country thinking it might be a workable way forward? Answer We proposed - Kirschener threw it out.
We had an internationally recognized( it had been lodged at the UN) Agreement on offshore hydrocarbons - two zones and a special area in the middle where things would be done jointly. Who threw that one out - and is now crying we went unilateral?
Nothing new at all - just typical Argentine greed and paranoia- just as Mr Vega said.

I hate to say it, what with the very reasonable comments at 90 and 91, but, so long as Argentina continues to maintain its claim, there never will be any middle ground.
If (and it's a huge, humungous, really big IF!) Argentina did drop its claim, there might, just might, be room to discuss the future of the Falkland Islands, if (once again, that little word!) Argentina was willing to accept the Falkland Islands as an independent nation, living in peace next door to and in co-operation with Argentina.
Argentina has to come to terms with the inhabitants of the islands, that they are there to stay and that their wishes are of paramount importance in any discussions.
Unless this can be achieved, there will never be any “negotiations”. It may be a hard thing for some Argentinians to accept, but this is the simple and brutal truth of it, I'm afraid.

Domingo, a short answer; you are again missing the main issue of the dispute; there is no posibilitity of an argie&britain&kelper situation; there is no room for britain in argentina equation; tango is for 2; in argentina there is a saying: two are company but three are a crowd. you can dance with britain or with argentina but never with both; you choose, but please don´t act as a victim if you don´t like consequences.

93, well said, we also want and end to all the arguments of history etc. Billy Hayes is right, I also am convinced that somehow Independence,within the Commonwealth, - is probably the best option to aim for. How we get there and even with maybe a titular transfer to Argentina along the way who simultaneously offers us Independence may be a way out for all. Sadly any middle road option is going to need a bit of cooling down first by Argentina. Currently things are heading in the wrong direction - for Argentina! - maybe in the 1800 and 1900s you took places and kept them by bullying and force. Sadly for Argentina we are in 2010 and the rest of the world has moved on a bit.

@Billy(#94): For me the central issue is that no side will forgive the past and so old grudges are held. Forgiveness is needed to allow the wounds to heal and be replaced with friendship.

For me neither Britain nor Argentina's differences on the Islands are irreconcilable; so I remain hopeful for a brighter friendlier future.
Change can happen & I hope for change for the better of all.

The few of us who have posted here only speak for ourselves, no-one else.
There are few absolutes in life.

I am the victim of nothing. I simply believe that confrontation is the wrong policy for all sides. Policies of Escalation risks much, whilst Détente offers great rewards.

One should never say never and never say always because nothing is ever as bad or as good as it may seem.

Therefore all parties should keep an open mind, for the open-minded see the common truth in different things whilst the narrow-minded see only the differences.

Brotherhood & peace are common, worthy & just goals. I think these should be the aim of the Argentines, British & Islanders.

I admit it is not incumbent upon us to finish the task, but neither are we free to absolve ourselves from it.

Domingo, you are forgeting that there were two detentes in the past, in the 70´s and in the 90´s; both periods offers great rewards for kelpers & britain but nothing to Argentina, both laugh in her face; and both detentes conduct to crisis, 82 crisis and next crisis (we don´t see climax yet). I think that a next stand bye is needed but please not like the past ones.
Plese don´t forget one situation. In 1833 when UK betrayed argentina, argentina was barely a country with 500k people, and britain was 1°world power. In 82 argentina was a 25 millon people country, and britain 3° world power and there was a check situation. Now Argentina is a 40 millon country and britain is in top 10. Please don´t wait for 2060 when Argentina will be a 60 millon people country and UK out of the top 10. Dangerous times lies ahead if we keep waiting for solution; kelpers must act as a referee between argentina and britain; now they are not acting they are like simple spectators.

95 Islander1:

Fom the UK, i would absolutely be happy with you guys gaining independance. But is it really viable? A defence agreement from us and an actual invasion on UK “land” is a world of difference.

A weak government is unlikely to act on a defence treaty, any government is going to act on an invasion into “our” territory. I personally feel safer for you guys knowing the government has an actual commitment to you, rather than a treaty from an ex colony.

Ofcourse if argentina decided to become friendly this would negate my argument entirely.

What blockade is this british illegal alien talking about ?
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE66K1NT20100721
if anyone is blockading anyone is his british brothers, ask the Iraqouis.
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE66K1NT20100721
how covenient for the british Illegal aliens to cry wolf when they are the ones commiting theft, where have I seen this before ? o yea
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE66K1NT20100721
http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE66K1NT20100721
It is really sad to think that in 2010 pirats can still claim parts of a country, didn't they ever learned to have respect for borders and local laws ?

97, Billy Hayes: Firstly, the Islanders have chosen. Argentina simply doesn't want to accept that. Argentina needs to come to terms with reality.
Secondly, please, come on, you're surely not advocating any military intervention by Argentina! And, if you are, are you seriously suggesting that the armed forces of Argentina would be able to defeat the UK's armed forces! Stand in the corner and have a think about what you've said!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/apr/02/comment.falklands

what are you smoking in OZ?? islanders didn´s choose anything, islanders are british since the begining of their history, they didn´t choose anything.
I´m not talking of armed forces; you are seing that argentina doesn´t need military to produce a situation; military is a tool, like laws, political pressure, alliances, international forums etc.
I don´t know if argentina can defeat britain, god is not writing in this forum; but I know that no defense last for ever and I think that kelpers are in a dangerous position if they don´t try to break paralisys between argentina & britain; I see kelpers and their politicians acting like commentators of reality and not acting as political actors in a decisive way.

It's good to see the admission that the Islanders are British, although they are now, of course, Falkland Islanders, having their own identity, being of British descent.
I know that it isn't possible to look into the future but, for now and for the foreseeable future, the islands belong to the Falkland Islanders. The Islanders, for now, have chosen and choose to remain British and there is no need for them to do anything in respect of a change of sovereignty. The current attitude of the Argentine Government is a nuisance, and it would be nice if the Argentinians stopped their beligerence. If it chooses not to do so, well, so be it. It is not anything new for the Falkland Islanders and they will get along just as fine as they have always done.

can amnesty international be wrong ? is Argentina keeping illegal aliens in Malvinas from reading mercopress ?
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/21/amnesty-international-praises-argentina-s-same-sex-marriage-landmark-bill

last I heard even pirats are drilling away in Malvinas.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/21/amnesty-international-praises-argentina-s-same-sex-marriage-landmark-bill

may be mr Roger Spink president of the Chamber of Commerce is really being blockeded by Falklands’ Director of Mineral Resources, Phyl Rendell who said, and I quote,
“Falklands’ Director of Mineral Resources, Phyl Rendell ‘really pleased’ with the drilling program”
The gay thing will byte us back in the behind, when the child abuse reports for next year shows the data we fail analyze, but for the time being, playing politics with illegal aliens is turning into a childs play.

JustinKuntz, so the islanders are totally under the so-called “FIG” control??? Interesting, as the Governor is still Her Majesty's representative, not precisely “democratically” elected... The same as the rest of the administration. And the “Assembly”, all islanders though??? NOT the case. How can you prove then that you are a “people” when you aren't but British subjects, the very tool of occupation. Of course there can't be Argentines among you, just a few “tolerated” exceptions to try to for “your” case. There's one reality and that cannot be changed: you are NOT entitled to the right of self determination. Not only MY opinion but the international community's. By the way, my surname is NOT of Mapuche origin. What about yours? Is it English? Welsh? Scottish? Or “Northern” Irish? Sorry guy, propanga seems to brain washed YOU, not us.

Wow ... must be a slow news month for this single article to attract so many comments so fast, took me a while to work my way through.

I note that Jorgy boy has returned as Argentino, that Billious Haze still has a tenuous grip of both history and reality but is 'Mr Well-Grounded' compared to Gaseous.

Way back Think made a comment about the UK/FIG not caring about the views of Argentina, the Oas, the C-24 ......... he's quite right, we don't care. Their views are unimportant. The only views that matter are the islanders. Now they may have to suffer a few hardships in support of those views. They have before no it should come as no surprise. And lamb is better than beef anyway:-)

Think also said “ ... Argentina continues to go the long diplomatic “Desert March” just in case things change and because it looks good..............”

Well summed up .... although change is slow ... in this case a bit like continental drift.

Other than that not much seems to have changed ... and all this because one ship took a longer route. Looking forward to the next story :-)

The Falkland Islands are British .... Get used to it !

Poz, Of course you are british and that´s why argentina claim.
british people from 14k miles away in argentine waters.
britain uses in kelperland negative segretation; to mantain colonial status quo to sustain by force half south atlantic.
I don´t understand why young people as you and the others fellow coforist don´t seek progress; you are telling me that young kelpers preferd to live in an oily, 4x1 men x women, 1800 fellow bennies defending a crown; while in the other corner you have cities like usuhaia or pta.arenas 15x more people, more business, more interesting, shopping, unversities, cinemas, hospitals, mac donals (do you read about that mum????)). Do you travel to usuahia?? if not try to go to understand the huge potential of development stanley has at their britishness way.
If some day stanley is opened I will invest my millon dollar in a restaurant.

105 - I think you will find that even the British Ambassador in Buenos Aires has the official title “her Majesty,s representative” - does that make you all under UK control and laws!!!
The Governor of the Falklands is her Majesty,s representative here - he represents the figure of the Queen as head of State - just like the Governor general in Australia. Only difference is that here as we are an overseas territory(NOt a Colony) he has responsibilty to the UK Govt for Foreign Affairs and Defence. Both here and Australia for example both people are the ulimate source of legal appeal - a Falkland Islander or an Australian can appeal to the Queen and Privy Council in a legal dispute if it is not done fairly in their country.
Neither our Governor - nor the Aust Gov general has a vote in INTERNAL affairs, just like Australia we make all our own laws and taxes - and even petroleum prospecting laws. In Aust they are probably then signed into law by the Gov General. In the Falkands they actually get referred to the Queen,s privy Council and are signed there.
So will you say Australia is not Independent? Often Argentine folk just do not understand the way the British Constitution works - it is different - thats all. The end result is the same -the elected governments have the real power,
As for our Assembly - with a population as small and growing like ours is it is not surprising we have members who may have been born elsewhere - we all vote for them and this time the most votesd by far went to such a person - where they were born is irrelevant! They all have Falkland Island citizenship - to be a candidate or a voter. Of course You cannot vote etc if you are a newcomer or on a workpermit.
Selfdetermination - yes of course we have that right and it is recognised in varios UN statutes, Just the same as you do.

if goat is better than beef british subjects better get used to it, because soy just took a big byte out of our beef industry in Argentina and guess what we might even have to cancel meat exports to everyone , to keep our national food on the table, you heard of national security ? right ? soon we might see if national security trumps free trade, I guess it does, goat will have do for UK.
http://www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/100610/argentina___no_more_beef_exports_.aspx

Of course most the argentines don´t understand, becasuse they only typonn, royalnavies, subs, dominating and trying to dominate half southatlantic including half antartica in the name of 2000 crown subjects. That´s not real selfdetermination.

Islander, the British guy in Buenos Aires is HMG's AMBASSADOR to a foreign country... I'm afraid your own argument turns against you. The rest of your thought is intrinsecally biased and illogical then. Sorry, revise your theory and international law concepts. Then we see! You ARE British and NOT by choice but as a result of reality. How can you dare claim your “self determination”, the “self” being the same as the occupying power? This is it. And you INTERNAL affairs are also handled by the UK government, sorry to say. Not only because you only have but a few “pure” islanders (after ethnic cleansing, of course) who, at the end of the day, are as British as your Governor and NOT by choice.

It is not possible to 'occupy' what one 'owns' ...at least not in the sense that Alejo means it. The islands have never belonged to Argentina, the claim is spurious and cannot succeeed .. will not.

The Falkland Islands are British .... Get used to it!

(92) Islander1
Yes..... we want Sovereignty over the Malvinas.
And pursuing this goal Argentina has too many times accepted your so called ”extend hand of friendship and co-operation”.

The problem is that:

For you “living along side each other as mature people” means only one ting:
To enjoy all the advantages of having good and willing neighbors in South America but, at the same time, ........... reserving (and exercising) your “right” to act as the perfect base for your British Brothers and other non regional actors to dominate and exploit the South Atlantic and Antarctica.

This I call greed......... And then, “your elected representative” goes public and compares the Islands situation with Gaza or Berlin!
Who the heck it this guy spin doctor?

Mr Roger Spink does not care about the islands, he only represents the wishes of oil companies , who by the way will turn Malvinas into an oil lagoon like British Petroleum did in the US.
Euronews:
“I think it will be transformational… Just the very scale of it is enormous on the economy,” said Falkland Islands Chamber of Commerce President Roger Spink, who is a director of a company that has shares in another oil exploration company.”

This I call greed.........
Argentina has a land area of 2,736 thousand sq km

The Falkland islands form an archipelago consisting of two main islands and several hundred smaller islets with a combined land area of 12,175 km².
Who is the Greedy boy?

It is sad that there is so much bigotry & hate against the Islanders as an ethnic group and the British.

For me, the stereotyping of Britain as a colonial imperialist power is hopelessly out-of-date and, frankly, quite ridiculous. Britain is a modern European state with no desire or pretensions for any “Empire” whatsoever. One may as well complain about the Spanish, Dutch, French or Portuguese “Empires”. It has no meaning, it belongs totally in the distant past.

Propaganda is being used to further narrow political ideology. Modern Argentines & British are far more alike than different.

Britain simply has a duty under resolution 1514(XV) to offer self-determination to the Islanders, as does Argentina. Both nations have been told by the world that their rights are superseded by those of the Islanders under resolution 1514(XV).

The UK govt. has very reluctantly begun implementing 1514(XV) after 1982 what it should have in 1960. Argentina has never fulfilled its duty, despite voting for this resolution to apply to the Islands.

Therefore I see no reason to castigate the UK for doing what the international community has requested.

However, if Argentina refuses its international obligations, then Argentina must accept it is also responsible. If Argentina chooses the path of confrontation, it must realise this make the situation worse.

There are two-sides to every argument, and people need to respect both sides. At the moment, I fear, only one-side is taught and a lot of indoctrination of political ideology is fed to people to allow them to be manipulated and controlled.

I don't think Britain holds its South Atlantic territories because it wants to antagonise South America, I think it does so because it thinks they own them fair & square. So use the ICJ

I saw no lasting detente in the 1970s & 1990s and no real normalisation of relations that would lead to lasting friendship.

However, if Argentina can succeed in reconciliation with Chile. Then in 30 years....

Think said “ ... non regional actors to dominate and exploit the South Atlantic and Antarctica....”

Dominate? Really? Not getting a tad paranoid there are we Think?

Non-Regional? Well the British have been 'regional' in the South Atlantic since 1690 ... rather longer than Argentina has been in existence in fact.

Exploiting South Atlantic? Well yes, of course. After all we are there. We have property and we are entitled to exploit what we have.

... and Antartica? Well of course, everyone is keeping a weather on on that! Not that the Falklands are necessary for our purposes there as we have, seperately, South Georgia and the South Sandwich islands, which even Think knows is a 'difficult' question. Difficult because Argentina's claim is so ridiculous as to even confuse its most loyal acolytes!

Go back to Spain Alejandro Martinez!

(117) Hoytred

What you say is entirely in line with British Policy on the matter.

Nothing new here..... ... A Big British “Bugger Off”...

That’s why Argentina has developed this new set up: ““Designed to disrupt the economy of the Falklands, as part of an orchestrated campaign to achieve by so called peaceful means what the Argentines failed to achieve by military means in the 1982 conflict””
As Mr Roger Spink, president of the Chamber of Commerce so nicely puts it.

All peaceful, nice and legal......

the british illegal alien woke up this morning, and realized that after 150 years he was in Argentina, and all of a sudden it's a plot that Argentina exists and he is living in a Argentine territory, that's what happens when you head is stuck in your back end, and spend most of your adult life secluded on a floating ice reading many fairytales.
maybe Argentina doesn't let this guys read mercopress and he doesn't know we championed gay rights unfortunatelly for british, pirats are still criminals.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/21/amnesty-international-praises-argentina-s-same-sex-marriage-landmark-bill

(117) Hoyt
I forgot.......
You people are as “regional “and “natural” in the South Atlantic as whites are in Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_South_African#Current_trends

They had 300 years of possession, power and wealth. All won by military might.
They choose, from the beginning, total segregation.
They had all those nice explanations about being so different and the impracticability of living together......... (Alow me here to insert a quote from PomInOz at Nr.64: “ The Falkland Islands have a vastly different culture to their South American neighbours: language, laws, driving on the left, etc, as to make such a possibility, on a practical level, impossible”)
They had also written thick “History Books” that proved “without any doubt” that South Africa was not populated territory when the settlers arrived!

I experienced this “British regionality” for a while in the 70’s ........... as a “Blank”of course............ an invaluable teaching experience about sophisticated, debonair Anglo hypocrisy.

And you white Argentinos are “ as “regional “and “natural” in Argentina as whites are in Africa.
They had 300 years of possession, power and wealth. All won by military might.”

Your point is?

Actually you are still missing the point Think! The point is that Argentina has NEVER owned the islands and has NO right to their possession or resources and the difference in culture is irrelevant because the British population on the Falklands is as old as Argentina...

You can do as you wish, but you will always be in the wrong because YOUR COUNTRY HAS NO CLAIM ... and it never did. 70 + years of being fed an incorrect version of history has tainted the Argentine mind. I recognise that as a result you cannot help yourselves but you do not have the high moral ground on this issue and will therefore be unable to win ... whatever childish policies you adopt.

I've said this before but I'll repeat myself ..... not even if there were just penguins left!

Our Malvinas set up is working!
Their loosehead prop is gnashing his teeth at us.
He is even mumbling niceties about the Arabs and Germans!

and also... apartheid was not driven by the British in SA.... it was very much an Afrikaaner sort of a thing... the Dutch Deformed Church and all that lot....
They were kicked out of the Commonwealth for their troubles.
And what has this to do with the current debate? I know its difficult for you Think... but try to stay on topic, there's a good chap

Argentina had no need for apartheid having slaughtered the indigenous population

Let us compare portions of two comments:

From Domingo (and the UN):
“All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.“

And from Twinky:
”That’s why Argentina has developed this new set up: ““Designed to disrupt the economy of the Falklands, as part of an orchestrated campaign to achieve by so called peaceful means what the Argentines failed to achieve by military means in the 1982 conflict”

Anybody notice the disparity?

Twinky is, of course, just a rabid, brain-scrubbed fanatic without the level of “intelligence” contained in my little finger.

Domingo. I'm afraid your wishes, though laudable, are doomed to remain wishes. There have been no belligerent actions on the part of the Falkland Islanders and no belligerent actions on the part of Britain. Belligerency is confined to Argentina, a territory occupied by implanted rebel colonists.

111 - sorry that just like so many Argentines you refuse to look at facts and reality and blunder on in your outdated neocolonialistic way - that has no place in the 21st century.We are in charge of our Islands - we are the poulation with exactly the same rights to decide our own internal affairs as you have.

J.A.Roberts, I cannot get BACK to where I don't belong to, exactly the opossite situation with translplanted islanders, that's a fact. Even if born on the islands, they are instrumental to the ETHNIC CLEANSING in force since 1833.

Hoytred, it's really amazing what your ignorance can amount to. Not even the US, I repeat, the US endorses your view! Not to mention the UN which stands for United Nations, just in case you don't happen to know.

There is a sovereignty dispute as there is an occupying power of Argentine land. That has been the view of the international community ever since 1965 at the UN and even shared by the UK as they negotiated sovereignty wih Argentina.

Propaganda is harmful. You are the best proof

Falkland Islanders say:

We would welcome reconciliation and friendly relations.

The Argentine response:

We don't care, we hate you because you're not like us, given half a chance we'd invade and slaughter you all, so clear off, give us your homes or else.

And yet they also complain that the Falkland Islanders don't particularly like them and its not their fault.

In response to other comments such as Snr Martinez. Ethnic Cleansing? Let me guess the often repeated claim by Argentina that the population was expelled in 1833. Null point. Its a lie, it didn't happen. The population of Puerto Luis aka Port Louis was perfectly welcome to remain, after all they had been installed with British permission in 1828. It was a tiny population of only 26 people.

Now, you don't have to take my word for it, Charles Darwin and Capt. Fitzroy's diaries are online and they document visiting the settlements in 1833 and 1834, not to mention that online is the diary of Thomas Helsby a resident and employee of Vernet's.

Reliable, first hand accounts that document that what Argentina claims is a lie. But then I can confidently predict the Argentine contributors here will refuse to believe it.

Mmmmm, and as one person observed Argentina pumped out anti-Chilean propaganda for years and there is still the consequences from that. Equally Argentina continues to pump out anti-Falklander propaganda, so effective is it, that even when the Falklanders express a desire to improve relations the reply is basically bugger off.

But then the racist hatred the Argentines demonstrate is so inate, that they even twist the Falklander's rejection of Argentine racism into being their fault.

The islanders patiently explain their self-governing status, the role of the Governor, the democracy they enjoy and you simply refuse to accept what contradicts your jaundiced view of the place.

Again the question, which will go unanswered, if Argentina's claim is so strong why do you have to lie?

JustinKuntz, simply not true, your version is not true. Otherwise, your “case” would have gained support from the very beginning and the UK wouldn't have negotiated what it didn't have to. Simple falso. And I DO know Argentine records.

Argentines do not hate islanders, be sure. We do sympathise with you as we do know what your plight is trying to justify what the UK has imposed on you. Be sure. It is not simply NOT true. We even understand what your position is, as UK citizens and tool of occupation. You may count up your generations there, but within a colonial policy preventing mainland Argentines to live, settle or buy property there in force till this very date. That's a fact too. Maybe “ethnic cleansing” is too strong a concept, but in a way it is.

The self-governing status and the role of the governor are elements which cannot be considered as democratically as you would like. This new slogan of yours regarding human rights cannot be opposed to Argentina. You only are a democracy as to certain elements of your dailiy life, imposed by the UK and simply endorsed by you. That's the way it is, even “your” so-called new constitution. In the modern world we have a different idea of democracy and yes, Argentina, is an excelent example of it.

Alejomartinez, you are as daft and as indoctrinated as the rest of your countrymen. Yes I am ignorant ... there is so much to know. However, on the history of the Falkland islands I suspect that I am better informed than you.

So let's look at what you say ......

“ .. Not even the US, I repeat, the US endorses your view!..”

Wrong! The US regognises that the British have de facto control of the islands and administer them. The US supported, in a number of ways, the UK during 1982. Don't rely on Ms Clinton or even the the current Administration. The US is more for the UK than Argentina ... try doing some research! Oh, and by the way, I note that FOGL is currently in the US to get support and of course, money!

“ ... Not to mention the UN which stands for United Nations, just in case you don't happen to know.... ”

What support would that be then. The discredited C-24 have put forward 44 motions to the General Assembly on the Falklands ... now tell me, how many have received the backing of the General Assembly? And, of course, the General Assembly does not provide binding resolutions, so what's next ... the Security Council? Well you know that you're going to get buggered there!

There is NO sovereignty dispute, because we have it ......

There is no “ .. occupying power ...”, because we've always owned the islands and Argentina has NO CLAIM!

The International Community ... don't make me laugh ... 'community' my arse!

Now 'propoganda' is what you've suffered from, and there you have my limited sympathy .... limited, because it only takes half a brain and the internet to learn the truth! It may come as a surprise to you but the 'Falklands' is not a subject taught in Brirtish schools .... we know who they belong to and there is no need to try and remind anybody!

The Falklands are British ... get used to it!

Alejandro,

There was no “ethnic cleansing” in 1833. All the civilians from Buenos Aires were encouraged to stay, most of them did and some of their descendants continue to live in the Falklands today. Those are facts. The Falklanders were never “transplanted”. They went there of their own free will, just like your Spanish Martinez ancestor went to Argentina of his own free will. Go back to Spain!

Hoytred, I'll leave “history” to you, I know it by heart, including your version of it. Simply sterile, you couldn´t convince the world with distorted facts.

As to ethnic cleansing, it STARTED in 1833 and still very much in force, don't be innocent. How can they not “descend” from their “ancestors”? All British subjects whose Britishness has been protected, preserved and enforced by UK Government by systematic colonial policies.

“Free will” on the islands... OK, maybe that's what the FCO “says”, not what they actually do. I don't need to go back to Spain as I'm not Spanish, Mr Roberts.

Maybe that's not your case, not Spanish of course. Well, maybe you arrive on our islands before 1833 and then you are Spanish indeed!

That is, of course, the whole point of indoctrination ... knowing things by heart!

So what's important about 1833 ... well not so much. It was after all the end of the disputes, not the beginning. Vernett's workers had been on the islands, with British permission. An illegal Argentine garrison arrived and were removed 2 months later by a visiting British force. Vernett's workers carried on regardless as proven by both the garrison's records, the ship's captain's log and the diary of Charles Darwin who arrived shortly afterwards. Real history does not favour the Argentine propoganda!

Ethnic cleansing when the majority remain and only the illegal force leaves .... interesting interpretation of the phrase!

Yup, as I said .... full of (official) cra*p

data from reality:

Two days from been published in Mercopress & FINN Mr.Spink words had zero repercutions in argentine or british media.

Quite right Billious ... nobody cares and nobody is impressed ! And life stays ... much the same :-)

Your surname is Martinez and you are not Spanish? Please explain...

Nobody cares & nobody is impressed so Mr.Spink sorrow is not hear by international community as he wished. Things & life reamains the same: dispute is heating, kelpers are paying consequences of british occupations and nobody cares. With friends like you who needs enemies.

Martinez, take your transplanted arse back to Spain, you Spaniard! You can't fool us, pretending to be an “Argentine” with a name like Martinez...

“JustinKuntz, simply not true, your version is not true.”

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

I said they would refuse to believe it, it happens to be true.

I even tell them where to look to verify what I say independently, they refuse to do so.

Brain washed. Newsflash sonny, you're the ones distorting the facts, you've been doing it so long you can't handle the truth. Why are you all so afraid to check things out for yourselves.

The point also, is that Argentina conspicuously avoids having its claims tested at the ICJ. There is a reason for that.

Also the islanders dictated matters to the UK Government not the other way round, the FCO would have been happy to dump the Falklands onto the Argentine Government. The Falklanders mounted an effective Parliamentary lobby to stimy FCO plans. Now the FCO's Machiavellian scheme had nothing to do with the merits of Argentina's claim, the FCO simply viewed the islands as of little worth and the islanders an irritation. Which is why in the 1970s, they FCO and Argentine Government conspired to ensure dependence on Argentina.

Their self-governing status is very real, the UK had nothing whatsoever to do with the running of the FIG, the Governor is a figurehead with no executive powers. Those are the real facts.

The Falkland Islands are democratic, they freely chose their constitution, they choose association with the UK.

And regarding the ethnogenesis of the Falklands, it is not purely British but includes the original settlers sent by Vernet, Chilean and Uruguayan Gauchos, Gibraltarians, Scots, Welsh, Irish, Norwegian, Swedish - it is a rich and diverse ethnic mix for such a small population.

The people who were born there and have lived there for 9 generations are Falklanders first, they choose to be British by association and identifying themselves as British does not mean they come from the UK.

“Free will” on the islands... OK, maybe that's what the FCO “says”, not what they actually do. I don't need to go back to Spain as I'm not Spanish, Mr Roberts.

Don't be a sheep all your life. Wake up and smell the fresh air. They have the choise to stay with the UK or leave us at any time.

How can you complain about the islanders being colonists when you yourselves are colonists. You talk about the illegal expulson of your settlers in 1833, what about the natives of argentina that you mass murdered? was that legal? or is it just ok when it's in your best intrests.

(137) Hoyt
You say:
”Quite right Billious ... nobody cares and nobody is impressed ! And life stays ... much the same :-)”

I say:
If you call the Islanders and a substancial number of Argentineans working and living with the Malvinas Issue on a daily basis for nobodies; then you are right.
Nobody cares........

No Think you misunderstand, nobody cares what Argentina thinks anymore, simply for the fact with your petulant acts you made yourselves irrelevant. Things just carry on without you.

The people who live there, care a great deal for the islands, they have a deep affinity for their home. They don't care for the regional bully thats all.

Alejomartinez, I do love the arrogance (that word again?), you seem to have this wonderful insight on the thoughts of Falkland Islanders. Unfortunately, you are wrong in every way. I was born in the Falklands, and i still live there, and I choose to be British. It is my choice, I have never had the Governor telling me to be British. Your complete misunderstanding of the British Constitution, the Commonwealth and the Falkland Islands only completely rules you out of any coherent debate. The Legislative Assembly are the ones who have the power, they were voted in by the Falkland Islanders like myself. To claim otherwise only proves you have no ideawhat you are talking about. And to claim that they, the government civil servants and everyone else you can think of was implanted is embarrassing. Again it just proves you have no idea. I will repeat what I always say, please use facts.

And for the Ethnic Cleansing claim in 1833, dont you actually have to kill people to ethincally cleanse them? And kill lots of them? In your arguement ethnic cleansing includes 39 people? Anyway, all but two remained on the islands. The only time when those settlers (you are referring to) died is either they were murdered by one of their Argentine peers or died peacefully of old age on the Falklands. Alejomartinez, this is the only time i respond to your comments, unless you start using facts.

(137) Hoyt

You say:
” And life stays ... much the same :-)”
I say:
The Islanders know better.
They don't get out of the Pub and lobby just for the fun of it.
They are beginning to “think” that all this “noise” about oil may be......................
And what then..........................?

OMG 140 J.A.Roberts: Your comment from a country full of descendants of the Conquistadors!!! no more friendly mother country then??

“ ... They don't get out of the Pub and lobby just for the fun of it....” = one businessman on a radio show looking for something to talk about!

Yes Think --- you're kidding yourself!

As for, “ ... If you call the Islanders and a substancial number of Argentineans working and living with the Malvinas Issue on a daily basis for nobodies; then you are right...” ---- ,well, half right :-)

I doub t whether too many islanders have wept into their beer over the Argentine action, I am rather more sure that nobody at all in the UK has even noticed .... the islanders remain in their islands and the British watch over them .... no change then !

But hey ... keep it up, helps me get through the boring parts of the day :-)

Another example of self determination trumping territorial integrity. It's time to let go Argentina, you're never going to get the Falklands.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10730573

(148) Hoyt
One Businessman......? One Businessman!
Mr. Spink is a very important person (VIP) in Malvinas!
He has more titles than my dog has fleas!
And “statistically”: 1 Man in Malvinas is the equivalent to 24.000 Britons.
This is massive!! Huuuuge.........

Typical of London......
Neglecting their subjects in need....
Reacting too late too little....
Maybe Brussels will help them.....
After all they are European Citizens too.....

The assessment that Kosovo's declaration of independence is contrary to the international law was made by Serbia, China, Russia, Spain, Romania, Cyprus, Argentina, Brazil, Vietnam, Bolivia, Venezuela, Azerbaijan and Belarus

Argies back a lost cause, icj to argies what kryptonite is to superman

The Aregentina claims their gights over the Falklands because the islands are too near to their coast, but when the british came to them, all the Patagonia was property of the Republic of Chile up to the 1891 Treat, so what a hell !!! where their right come from? Anrgies hilled a lot of aborigens (even with rat poisson, handkerchiefs contamined with illness and GUNS.... They took our vast territory from Rio Negro to the south, wich was our heritage from the America's Spanish Kingdom and occupied it, then they said that due they were occuping it... it belomg to them !!! Well, the same case to the Falklands...The islanders (with british ancestors) are occuping them, so...... they belong to them !!!!
Argentina must start to be reliable, it means, acomplish whit it honour word.. even when it is not convinient to it interst.
We have a lot of experience about that policie along our independent life as the Republuic of Chile, almost 200 years later....and with expansion desires from our neighbors yet.
But, as I said before....For the Argentines governments the best business is to have these problems with the neighbors alive to hide the internal affaires sa deep as is possible. They never will go to the ICJ because it can determine a final veredict, even an Argentina winner , but it means that they loose because they won´t have the big reason to get the people togheter against the enemy...
Islanders, Falklaners, Kelpers (with my respect) or British, or the way you can be called , go ahead !! you don´t need those “friendly” neighbors as well as we don´t, also...

so what are the islanders waiting for,,, they could help the royal navy in this time of cutbacks,
the Falkland islanders have the right to summon British military assistance [now] if they feel threatened, and feel the are being blockaded,
just like any other British territory from lands end to john o groats, if you are being blockaded, then you should officially summon help from the British government, who are duty bound to protect you, and send the navy south, you can request this [now] if you are that worried, the government will only act, if it is made to, invite the worlds press to attend if the government turns a blind eye, the argentines must not only be stopped from blockading the Falklands, the British government MUST BE SEEN, TO STOP THEM, before they send the wrong signals that they are not prepared to help you. sending this kind if signal is what started the last war, [good luck] demand action now, or never,

Yeahhhh....
Send the Navy......

@ Sergio Vega
Nice to hear a voice of reason from South America
@Think
A bit more leg work needed :-)

email the TIMES NEWSPAPER the British government listens to it,
make Dr Fox come up with the goods he has promised, demand action now, you have a right to be defended, the Argentineans are watching, and waiting, and if the government does nothing, [well ??] DAVID IS IN America CATCH HIM NOW BEFORE HE LEAVES, GET YOUR LEADERS OF THERE BACK SIDES AND DEMAND HELP NOW,, and in turn it will keep the likes of think, quiet, very quiet, and put the British military at action stations,

Yesssss....
Action Stations! All hands to action stations. Action surface starboard. Assume condition Yankee. Close all red openings. Action Stations!
Sounds expensive.....

Yes, Sergio is exactly right. Argentina forced Chile out of Patagonia by twisting their arm during the War of the Pacific. When the Chilenos were building Fuerte Bulnes “Argentina” didn't really go much further than the Salado river just south of Bs As.

There are Uruguayans who support the position of the Falkland Islanders (and Britain) and now it seems there are Chileans who feel the same. You must, and you have the right to, make your voices heard. Reject the Argentine dictatorship! YOU can make a difference. Britain has a long history of standing by the oppressed. Even now, the British people, despite financial difficulties, are urging their Government to increase the size and capabilities of the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy. You do not have to be alone. Help with the Falkland Islands and Britain will help you.

But the vessels could go to my country ( Chile) as far I know Argentina doesn´t have control of everything

Argentina doesn't really have controll of anything beyond it's coast.

@think

Need some more hymn sheets for your Chilean cousins :-)

LOL #161 this would mean that the illegal alien Roger Spink president of the Chamber of Commerce, doesn't have a foot to stand on, I mean this pirat moans about Argentina blockading fakland but, malvinas is inside Argentina and it's our soverign rights to do in Malvinas as we wish, this is stipulated in UN resolutions under self determination with out interference, UN even says that if we don't do this we might lose our claims to the land, so get used to it, we must enact our soveragnity if we don't want to lose it to an inplanted british colony of aliens, this colony is playing dangerous games, I doubt we could control our own army if they desided to erradicate the land over night, and don't think they can't do it, the 1982 was not an Argetine group since you will recall Argentine's back in those days use to make people disapare , the british where lucky that the army was corrupt and shurely working for UK in view of that witch I stated, but round two might not be under the control of UK influence.

...or both sides could decide never to fight again because the consequence of this stupidity means there are 907 good people who are dead, who should be alive today enjoying life with their family and friends, just as we do.

People need to forgive one another and seek friendship, not war, both in honour of our fallen compatriots, who deserved to live, but died in service of their countries due to the stupidity of politicians and also do it for a better future for themselves, their families and future generations.

163:
The islanders still have access to all the things they require, food beer power defence fuel. The blockade isn't working mate.

As for your confidence in your military it's entirely misplaced. Out of all the fighting aircraft you currenty own, all whom have been retired by other nations Argentina is the only nation still using them.

Your army's equipment is just as outdated as the airforces. As for training, i believe british training is the longest in the world.

You wouldn't stand a chance mate.

#21 Hoytred .you attitude sick me, we don´t bow to Argentina .the only reason that we can´t do business with Falkland are that you are blocking your ports that is the reason. The vessel don´t have enough fuel for a direct travel
Beside Argentina need us more than we need them. You should look in Google destino exportacion Argentina and then search for destino exportacion Chile and then talk about it

That doesn't make sence. Why would the islanders block their ports then complain about argentina trying to blockade them?

Not enough fuel? Ships travel acros oceans i doubt they would have trouble doing the 3 or 4 hundred mile sprint to the islands.

Poor deluded and implanted Spaniard, Mr Vargas, still blathering on about the Falklands being “inside” Argentina. Go back to Spain Mr Vargas!

The reason that we, the Chilean people that lives on the Patagonia (specifically on Punta Arenas), can´t do business withe the Falklands Islands is because the sail from our city to Stanley takes 2 days through the Magellan Strait and 4 days through the Cape Horn if the weather wants, doubling the freight cost and risks.
Due the ship that that was doing the service is a merchant one, they haven´t defense against a crazy Argentine navy boat that wishes to assault it in free navigation waters as the Magellan Strait and its entrances are as the international laws say.
Here, in Southern Chile as well as in Falklands, we just want live in peace with all the countries, even with our neighbours but it´s no possible when they are blockading the free navigation waters breaking the Treats that they have signed.
Nobody wants a war near us, it's a very stupid way to solve the situation between them. They must be seated at the conversation table. There is a lot of space for both of them living well and in peace enjoying the country and its resources, even in joint ventures that could benefit all of them.

sorry my mistake Argentina are blocking their ports that was suppose to mean

Ah i see. Eventually Argentina will overstep it's mark and the RN will step in.

.169 Sergio Vega
mate, if we British took that attitude we would still be in rowing boats,
ships have sailed around the world for hundreds of years, and through most dangers, if you are in any way worried about the threat of Argentina, then ask for international assistance, i think you will find this is called piracy at sea, and is illegal, the un could ask for western navies to either patrol them, or escort you through

In any true democracy it is up to the people to pass their views and feeling on to their elected leaders and then pressure those to do something about it. The Chilean people who are losing business need to complain loudly to their elected leaders. Pity there's no bridge to blockade!

Nice decision from the ICJ over Kosovo, bit of a kick in the nuts for 'territorial integrity' :-)

Our Chamber of Commerce's Chair and a delegation are. now in Santiago to meet with the President to claim him about our lost conection with Falklands. I´ll do my own and I'll send an e-mail to Mr. Piñera requiring him to take meassires to support us instead the Argentines, even considering that I have voted him last election. I'll do the same to our Congress Representatives (Senadores & Diputados). A lot of direct and non direct jobs are in the way to be lost. I´ll invite all my friends to so, also. We must take the bull by the horns and sart speaking loud......it´s our right and our duty.

Comment removed by the editor.

J.A. Roberts, 149. “Another example of self determination trumping territorial integrity!” Oops, have you read the Opinion? Seems you have not. In case you may get to understand, visit http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15987.pdf?PHPSESSID=792ea1f40e0a54328774a93004d770c2

As to territorial integrity, the Court states that the “scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of
relations between States”, which is great as it reinforces our case. Sorry to tell you.

Regarding self determination, my dear, check paragraph 83, which I quote:”The Court considers that it is not necessary to resolve these questions in the present case. The General Assembly has requested the Court’s opinion only on whether or not the declaration of independence is in accordance with international law. Debates regarding the extent of the right of self-determination and the existence of any right of “remedial secession”, however, concern the right to separate from a State. As the Court has already noted (...), and as almost all participants agreed, that issue is beyond the scope of the question posed by the
General Assembly. To answer that question, the Court need only determine whether the declaration of independence violated either general international law or the lex specialis created by Security Council resolution 1244 (1999)”.

Go to the sources, my dear. Maybe you find it better in the media, but it's not only biased but inexact!

The Serbs’ obsession with Kosovo is rooted deep in their political and ecclesiastical history, would an affluent, successful and self-confident Serbia really care quite as much?

Sadly, given Argentina’s apparently endless economic tribulations, it is probably a safe bet that it will still be moaning about the Falklands in 30 years’ time. Even so, the consolation is that most nationalist fantasies, with the notable exception of those in the Middle East, have a kind of unwritten sell-by date.

(173) Hoyt

You must be a really good teacher!
Reading (174) one gets impressed with how much you helped this Chilean guy to understand democracy and act accordingly.

(170) Gianni, Chilean too, is a little bit more complicated:
I quote him:
““ Hoytred , you attitude sick me, we don’t bow to Argentina .the only reason that we can’t do business with Falkland are that you (Argentina N. A.) are blocking your ports that is the reason. The vessel don’t have enough fuel for a direct travel. ””
Must be a very little vessel.... and besides, the only “gas station” between Punta Arenas and Malvinas would be Puerto Argentino.
And we all know who controls that Port:-)

I’m getting somehow the feeling that they belong into the select group of “non Spanish Speaking Natives...........

But you know me and my paranoia :-)

178 Think. Obviusly that we can lern more about democracy from UK than Argentina (how much government under military rules have you had from your independence compared with the UK democratic system long before our countries start as free nations).... Have you forgot the conflict between Mrs. K and the Central Bank's Chair when she took aout him without the right to did so? Or the big strike against the government by the agricultural owners union because the tax impossition over their exportations? or, in the other hand, the pressure over the Uruguayians due they have instaled some factory in their own land closing the bridge between both countries ? Those are good samples of your concept of democracy in the new times what means ....“what is good for my position is the truth, despite I´m wrong or I´m lying....it doesn't matter , the prize won does”.
As i said before, Argentina has thin glass roof in that issue........

(179)

As I imply in my entry (178) I doubt that you are Chilean.
We have spilled our time before, debating with:
People declaring to be Argentinean, Uruguayan and now Chilean but incapable to translate one sentence of their own English texts into Spanish!!!

Would you be so kind to translate your following own words to Spanish and prove me wrong? Pleeeease:

”Obviusly that we can learn more about democracy from UK than Argentina (how much government under military rules have you had from your independence compared with the UK democratic system long before our countries start as free nations).”

I wait to see what your excuse will be...
I have had many excuses :-)
But still no translation

Alejomartinez - it is always the problem with judges that they tend to answer the question they have been asked and not the one that they should have been asked.

But there is little solace in the judgement for you!

“scope of the principle of territorial integrity is confined to the sphere of
relations between States”

Yup, that's Judge speak..... but what does it really mean? Kosovo had been recognised by 69 other countries prior to this judgement. There is some suggestion that the judgement will add 40 mor to that figure providing more than sufficient for the UN to recognise 'statehood'

The 'declaration' is actually a minor point. The real point is that the 'de facto' state exists and Serbia is now unable to change that.

This bodes well for the future of the Falklands as an independent nation.

I can't better Hoyt's reply to your deluded comment Alejandro Martinez (Spaniard implanted into South America). Go back to Toledo! The real one, in Spain, and not the fake implanted village near Cordoba (another implanted fake town) in Argentina.

AlejoMartinez. You should take your own advice about reading the Opinion. Especially the whole section on General International Law. In para 79 we have this: “During the second half of the twentieth century, the international law of self-determination developed in such a way as to create a right to independence for the peoples of non-self-governing territories and peoples subject to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation” Notice how it distinguishes “peoples of NSGTs” from “peoples subject to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation” belying the Argentine argument that the NSGT itself had to be “subject to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation” to be entitled to self-determination.

I don't understand this. In a comment elsewhere addressed to Gianni regarding Uruguay, I pointed out that the Uruguayan Navy has only 22 vessels compared to the 42-44 of the Argentine Navy, so responding to his remarks regarding having a “big gun”. But the Chilean Navy has 70 vessels. So what is it doing letting Argentina dictate what happens in the Straits of Magellan or the eastern approaches.

If you want to be free (of Argentina), you have to get up on your hind legs and stand up for yourselves. So contact your representatives, make your wishes known. God helps those who help themselves.

Still seems that you understood the Opinion... Hoytred and J.A. Roberts! The principle of territorial integrity enshrined in the UN Charter (sounds familiar, doesn't it?) is confined to State relations. That's great news that the ICJ so recognises! I'd be worried if I were you.

Then, of course the right to self determination has evolved for the PEOPLES of the NSGT, which is not the case in all cases. As long as there is a people, as defined in international law, this is applicable. This is NOT your case, my dears, as the UN has stated (The ICJ is a UN body, did you know?). That's why your case is so “special and particular”, as there's not a people but a sovereignty dispute deriving from 1833 act of force. Hence, your “interests” are to be taken into account, as British subjects residing on the islands. Argentina's territorial integrity is at stake here, with the UK of course, “state to state relations”. You are British, don't worry, you belong to one of those two parties.

SImply to much an effort to explain the basics of everything to you guys. Brainwashing is such a problem with you guys that you even lose sight of the actual world!

We did understand the Opinion - quite correct!

And we are not woried :-)

“ ... Then, of course the right to self determination has evolved for the PEOPLES of the NSGT, which is not the case in all cases...”

Wrong, it is the case in all cases! The discredited C-24 has no opoinion worthy of mention. Their Resolutions are not adopted by the General Assembly ........... so tell me, if today the Falkland Islanders declared their independence, what then Alejomartinez of the brainwashed mind?? What then ? Would the ICJ rule against a de facto independence based on 177 years (at least) of history ..... feeling confident? Then take you case to the ICJ :-)

Harrier, you are correct.

“The Chilean Navy is generally considered to be among the most capable and professional in the Americas and is heavily aligned with significant naval powers such as the United States Navy and several European navies, most notably the British Royal Navy.”

They don't seem to have any destroyers though. They have a few type 22/23's which are very good ships though i believe they have the older batch.

“As long as there is a people, as defined in international law, this is applicable. This is NOT your case, my dears, as the UN has stated.......”

When was this then, don't think the UN has ever been asked to determine whether Falkland Islanders are a people, must have missed that ??????? However we have nothing to fear from any impartial judicial review of the facts.

To the Argentineans in this forum and in general:
As US/Uruguayan citizen living in Uruguay the last 6 years of my life I got to know your kind better. It's impossible to live in a civil way with neighbors that don't respect the Law. You just recently lost a lawsuit at the ICJ, The Hague. UPM doesn't pollute but your government is irrational asking the Uruguayan to let YOUR inspectors inside the UPM plant. All to please a bunch of mad men, the piketeros, who call themselves “environmentalists”.

You, as people, suffer from narcissism; you will never admit that the Falklanders, we, or anyone that disagrees with you can be right. Your best allies are “president” Hugo Chavez and Maradona. Look at their grotesque picture in MercoPress. Little Uruguay is run by “sheep”. The Falklanders will never surrender and you will never get your way.

“Liberty”; the one and only “Uruguayan” that does not speak one (1) word of Spanish.
Why do you keep lying about your nationality? People love you anyway!

188, stillakelper. The UN has never admitted that you are a people, neither that self determiantion may apply to you. In fact, it does say that your interests are to be taken into account during BILATERAL negotations to solve the SOVEREIGNTY DISPUTE. That's not exactly the UK's position, is it???

Liberty, you are SO arrogant. Argentines are not to blame if Maradona happens to do what he does, the same as you are not to blame because of your Iron Lady... I can make the effort to understand what it must be like feeling so inferior, poor you.

Oh you write such tosh Alejandro Martinez from Toledo (España).

The UN has never excluded the Falklands from any Resolutions which apply to the NSG Territories. In fact, the UN has made it quite clear that all UN resolutions with respect to the NSGT and decolonisation apply to the Falklands. Nor has the UN ever accepted that the Falklands are Argentine territory - or should be Argentine. Stop peddling lies and Argie government propaganda and go back to your home-town of Toledo in Spain, you Spaniard!

Para serte franco, amigo Alejo, te voy a responder por única vez en castellano como tu quieres para probarte que soy chileno de corazón y magallánico de nacimiento, que ha sufrido los problemas internos de Argentina como ataques a nuestra integridad territorial para desviar la atención de sus gobiernos corruptos, hasta que se dieron vuelta hacia el Atlántico Sur atacando a otro país, las Islas Falklands, pensando que por su tamaño, pequeña población y lejanía con su madre patria protectora iba a ser presa fácil para la depredación y les salió el tiro por la culata, aunque debo reconocer que por otro lado salieron ganadores ya que se han hecho los mártires y aprovechado la situación que debiera avergonzarlos para usarla como bandera de lucha (y con eso seguir tapando la corrupción interna). El lema es “mentir, mentir, mentir que algo siempre queda.....” y así lo han hecho desde nuestra independecia 200 años atrás......Ahora te voy a hablar en chileno, pa' que te dis cuenta que soy un bien nacido y orgulloso shilenito que se las ha pelado al tener que transitar por su territorio en el año 79 cuando casi nos agarramos de las mechas y no fueron culo pa' tirarse porque sabían que hasta Bahía Blanca no ibamos a parar con el corvo en una mano y la chupilca del diablo en la otra (pregúntale a los peruanos y bolivianos los efectos que esa mezcla produce...), Cachai...wnn
Now, an excuse for the people who doesn't speak spanish in this forum, but as Mr. Alejo ask me to probe that I´m Chilean and not another Britrish (or Islander) guy I took the freedom to answer him in my native language, even in “Chilean dialect” wich I normally don't use because I´m proud to be a good spanish speaker and writer (I thought that all people could understand that due my few english but now I´m very happy because It seem that it´s not to bad as I thought..!!!)
Are you convinced now, Mr. Alejo about my origin ????

Good effort Sergio, but don't be surprised if Alejandro Martinez (the implanted Spaniard from Toledo, aren't all the Marinez's from Cuenca?) simply moves the goal-posts or changes the subject (usually something to do with Iraq, the British Empire and the Chagossians)...

@Alejo(#185): However, nowhere in resolution 2065(XX) does it mention that the Islanders are not a people nor that self-determination does not apply nor anything aboutArgentina's territorial integrity, rather it confirmed resolution 1514(XV) covers the case of the Islanders, which Argentina voted for and was carried unanimously by the UN General Assembly.

The whole of Argentina was formed by acts of force. In 1982 the Islanders made a clear choice of self-determination;

In 1982 Argentina started a war contrary to the UN Charter & UN resolutions 1514(XV & 2065(XX) & UN SCR 502, about the issue of its territorial integrity and the right to self-determination of the Islanders. Argentina lost that war and the British won confirming their legal rights of Uti possidetis.

Now the UK right agrees to its duty to the Islanders to implement resolution 1514(XV) as the UK is unanimously required to do by the General Assembly of the UN

The reality is that Argentina has no say and any attempt at interference with the process of 1514(XV) is illegal. The British are in no mood to accede to Argentinian threats or repressive actions.

Argentina disagreeing about the Islanders right to self-determination today is as useless as Spain arguing about Argentina's right to self-determination; the mere disagreement with the premise of self-determination does not change the fact that both Argentines & Islanders already have de facto self-determination for a very long time. To argue that because one disagrees with a fact, then the fact is no longer true, as is the Argentine argument her, is a non sequitur argument &frankly ridiculous. Argentina lost permanently any rights to the Islands in 1833 & formally gave its rights in the 1850 Convention of Settlement.

Argentina's main argument is simply that it would have liked history to be different. That is no argument at all. It isn't.

Argentina lost, the same way the Patagonians & other indigenous people of South America lost. Get over it

Argentineans, the Falklanders have been living peacefully in their islands since 1833. Why it's so important to take over their homeland? Your country: total surface area (excluding the Antarctic claim) is 2,766,891.2 km2. Compare with total land area of the Falklands: 12,173 km2. Well, that is your bravado. In 1975 you stripped Uruguay of the tiny Martin Garcia Island sitting in Uruguayan waters.

Yeahh, but i still have some words to him that I miss in the ink bottle due the few characters permited in each post. My ancestors came from Spain, Switzerland and Chiloe (by father side) and Croatia (by mother side) but as I was born and lived on Chile all my life I´m in the same condition with the isllanders that have been born and lived all their lifes on the Island to determine their future, as well as he is to detemine the Argentina's future.
And, sorry, Mr. Martinez wasn´t the person who doubt aboutn my nationality, was Mr. Think who did.
Then, all friends in the forum, please can we be back to the matter???
This is the Falklands Islands sovereignty and the Aregntines pretention to take it for themselves, the UN Resolutions, the International Laws and the signed Treaties plus de facto situation over the Islands through a Decree aginst all of the valid rules mantioned before that is making the civil people on this Country suffering in their right to live as they deserve by the Human Rights Declaration from UN.

Alejomartinez - “ ... The UN has never admitted that you are a people, neither that self determiantion may apply to you. In fact, it does say that your interests are to be taken into account during BILATERAL negotations to solve the SOVEREIGNTY DISPUTE. That's not exactly the UK's position, is it???...”

The UN has to admit that people are people now?

As for the British position, well that is easy! We have no doubt about our sovereingty and the wishes of the islanders are paramount. We pay no heed to the discredited C-24 who are a sub-committee of the General Assembly and whose role has dwindled to insignificance.

Yet another Argentine forum that carries no weight!

As for inferiority, well there speaks an Argentine ego ... all wind and water!

Sergio, I think you'll find things go way off topic in these comments. Anyway, it's very nice to have a Chileno perspective, which I don't think we've had for a while or ever...

(193) Sergio Vega
I am now totally convinced about your” Chileanidad”...
Excuse my skepticism of before but I did not want to spill time with another “Fake South American”.
Which you are not........ Chilenazo puro ahijuna....canejo....
My answer to most of your historical arguments is on my previous entry (22)
I can infer from your text that you are a fierce nationalist and very possible a Pinochetist.
That’s your right but it does not leave too much space to dialog with a Argentinian Socialist like me. Does it?
I have to admit that when somebody mentions the “11 of September”, I don’t picture the “Twin Towers”, I think about the “Moneda “burning, my friend.

And just to give you a little personal anecdote about why I don’t believe all this “military” bulls*** about Chileans and Argentineans being mortal enemies:

“El destino quizo que en noviembre del 78 visitase a un gran amigo (Nicasio Urquizo, q.e.p.d.) administrador de la estancia “Remolino” sobre el canal de Beagle.
Allí fui testigo presencial de una reunion entre los almirantes Massera y Toribio Merino que, con un montón de Güisky encima, se cagaban de risa de nosotros, los civiles huevones que nos tragabamos la historia de la Guerra.

200 Think you and your Argentinean gang are wrong. There are many of us that we cannot tolerate your KIND. Around the world Argentineans are not so well liked as your narcissism demands. You’re questioning everyone that disagrees with your “conquest ideology”. Why do you discredit the nationality of Southamericans just because we don't like your country?...Please you can answer if you wish, ONLY ENGLISH !!

200 Think.
I don´t believe that it can be a problem that I´m a proud Pinochetista and you are a Socialista, because we are talking about the right thing to do as a human being.
You must know what the hell the socialist government did in 1970-73 in Chile wich mean the military government arrived to solve the internal situation. Who suffered the consecuencies can speak about, not aliens can do because they are influenced by the red propaganda. The real life teach us about it.
Probably, The Admiral Merino can was talking with Aldmira Massera with a lot of whisky on, laughing a lot, but certainly both of them were thinking “ how can I shit this guy” between each drink .
And the matter here is not this, but the reality that the islanders are suffering nowadays.

Martinez is a strange person (therefore Argentine). Let's look at a few words that may have slipped past. “is confined to State relations.” How would one construe a resolution relevant to dependent peoples to be confined to State relations? Whilst we're on the subject, can anyone recall a UN resolution recognising Argentines as a people? Of course, there may be few resolutions recognising particular peoples, but Martinez raised it so it is important to consider whether the UN has ever specifically recognised Argentines as a people. Whilst we're on Martinez' deluded words, could someone explain how an archipelago 300+ miles from the United Provinces, and briefly occupied by those colonists while the owner was away, could be considered “integral”.

There is actually a comparable situation much closer to the British Isles. The Channel Islands are an archipelago of British Crown Dependencies in the English Channel, off the French coast of Normandy. They include two separate bailiwicks neither of which is part of the United Kingdom; rather they are considered the remnants of the Duchy of Normandy. Do we see the French constantly claiming them? No. Because they recognise that the Channel Islanders choose to be British and accept it.

Pay attention to the words of Mr Roberts. It will not be long before Martinez and his cronies (Think, jorge!, avargas and the like) will be back either with irrelevancies (Twinky's favourite) or arguing that black is white.

A point I have made elsewhere. The Chilean and Uruguayan peoples must stand up for themselves. YOU must make yourselves heard. Would Argentina dare invade either or both? I think not. It would simply confirm them as neo-imperialist colonialists.

(202) Sergio
Well .. .....That confirms my thoughts....
Not much possible dialogue between us.
A consolation is the pragmatism and reality sense of the new president, Mr. Piñera.
Much much better than expected.
Still.........Hope Michelle takes next turn.
See you later alligator......

#193 Muchacho! re lindo tu comentario.

Coming back to the matter, I hope my President can change his mind and helps the Chilean people instead the Argentine government, that´s waht he was elected and I personally voted him. If not, I'll change my mind about him next voting day.....as will do a lot of Chilean, looking for a person who can be the leader we expect.
In the meantime, I'll do my task resquesting to our authorities to do their work properly as well as the Camber of Commerce is doing in Santiago already.
By the way, our Navy is not bigger than the Argentine Navy, and yes it´s one of the most capable in the region but it´s not our duty to enter to Argentine or Falklands waters to turn the things right. We are a peaceful country that wish to live in peace with all our neighbours.

206: Your navy is very much more powerfull than theirs. Don't underestimate it.

The only thing you don't have is destroyers and aircraft carriers. Destroyers are generally used to defend aircraft carriers. so you have no need for them.

They have 40 ships. i believe you have about 60.

it's not your navy's duity to help the falklands. Our navy will see to that. You shouldn't let them push you around though.

Anyone that served in the military knows that weapons are important but who's behind them is decisive. In the Falkland's war the argentineans had the upper hand. They invaded w/out warning, they had plenty time to set up, they were closer to land, had state of the art planes, the French Mirage, etc. The English putted together a harry up offense (American Football term) and came around the world none stop. The argentineans didn't have the right stuff, their commanders and soldiers were not motivated, they were fighting w/out a cause. They were following orders from a mad man and dictator Leopoldo Galtieri. Today the argentinean’s mentality has not changed one bit. I hope they don't make the same mistake; it will be their demise again.

One thing that amused me was the Harrier sales. We offered to sell the harrier jump jet to the Argentinians. They told us it was “no good”.

I agree with liberty. Good weapons are good. The man behind that weapon is the defining matter. This is why the british have such an extensive training period.

The figures I quoted at 184 are from Wikipedia.

From there, Argentina has 2 troop transport and command vessels, 4 destroyers, 3 submarines, 9 corvettes, 8 patrol vessels, 11 supply ships and 5 others; a school ship, an icebreaker, an oceanographic ship and 2 hydrographic vessels.
Chile has 4 submarines, 8 frigates, a missile boat, a fast attack craft, 4 offshore patrol vessels, 28 coastal and inshore patrol craft, 2 tank landing ships, 2 medium landing ships, an oiler and 12 support ships.
Chile's only likely naval contact with the Argentines would be in the Straits of Magellan and the eastern approaches.
The Royal Navy, with whom the Chilean Navy has been heavily aligned, would not wish to interfere unless Chile becomes belligerent. So all the Chilean Navy has to do is escort vessels sailing between Chilean ports and international waters to deter interfering belligerents. If requested, the Royal Navy would no doubt be glad to co-operate and assist.

THINK
Why two or more peoples must have the same thinking to keep a dialogue'?? ...Specially when this happen is when you need to have a dialogue !!!
Differents points of view make things can be better after a dialoghe, if not it´s transformed onto a monologue....You know that !!
But in any instance, you must have an open mind and accept when you are wrong. The facts helps a lot to demonstrate that....
Nobody can keep his truth as the absolute truth, nothing is black or white....there are a lot of middle tones between them...
You must learn to read the rules and resolutions as they are, not as you want they could be for your pretensions.
All countries are submitted to the UN rules and resolution, including the Falklands, so why their people must have a special UN resolution that consuider them as a people if Argentiens doesn´t have it.??
And so long.......

Merco Press
'OAS assembly gives full support to Argentina’s Malvinas claim
The Organization of American States (OAS) ratified support of the Argentine demand to seek dialogue with the United Kingdom in order to find a peaceful and definitive solution to the ‘colonialism situation’ of the Malvinas Islands, South Georgia, and South Sandwich and the surrounding maritime areas.

Decrease fontIncrease fontPrintShareComment
Argentine Foreign Affairs minister Jorge Taiana

A declaration presented by Brazil was approved by acclamation in the fortieth OAS General Assembly, which ended Tuesday in Lima, Peru.

The representatives from Brazil, Guatemala, Mexico, Chile, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, Paraguay, Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia, Granada, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, and Uruguay gave their word to make their support explicit.'

209 zethe:
Human beings fight better when they have a cause. It happened in Nam, and the rest of the wars that we're fighting in the East. I totally agree w/ you on training, motivation is part of that. What kind of real motivation can have italian& spanish descendants (like myself) to fight a war in the Falklands ? Argentineans don't have a real motive to die for someone “wet dreams”. They enjoy wine, food and women; they don't care about “penguins”.

liberty wrote: Think you and your Argentinean gang are wrong. There are many of us that we cannot tolerate your KIND. Around the world Argentineans are not so well liked as your narcissism demands. You’re questioning everyone that disagrees with your “conquest ideology”. Why do you discredit the nationality of Southamericans just because we don't like your country?...Please you can answer if you wish, ONLY ENGLISH !!
It is not a matter of conquest, has the british still have imperial dreams!
That is the reason that all SAmerica, including caribean commonwealth nation supports Argentina in the south Atlantic.
As the fact that you said many do not tolerate Argentines, I think the brits are less tolerated in the world.
Yesteday I was talking with people from Switzerland and the despised brits(imperilist mentality and snobism)
Regards

214: Don't be an idiot. We have and did have the ability to invade your nation AT ANY TIME. After the 1982 conflict it may have even been justified.

We don't want this. We are no longer impreialistic. If we was, believe me you would now be a british overseas territory.

213 Liberty: Human beings fight better when they have a cause.

In some ways i agree, some others i dont. I'll explain.

A cause will defenantly give the nation a reason to go to war, and keep at it, public support. But as for military support(i don't know about other nations, in britian) the troops will fight for their country nomatter the conflict. They mostly do it for the man next to them.

there would be no reason for you to fight in the falklands, we would not ask you to. This would be our fight, in the last war we did refuse american support.

214 Tte Estevez:
Thanks for answering my post. I don't have any enmity against any particular person, no matter their nationality. Argentineans in general are nice; I lived in Buenos Aires 91-93. As a nation they are obsessive almost in everything. The best soccer players, the best food, the best places, etc. and of course they worship Maradona as a god, they built a church on his name. You guys are over the top, starting a war with England shows extreme arrogance or madness?.
Chile at one point was in your government hit list too. Now it’s little Uruguay’s turn, which is suffering the argentinean imperialism over a paper pulp plant, UPM. Your government wants to control in our land and inside the plant a private company approved by the UE and by The Hague. Like Nazi Germany your people and government don't take a NO for an answer. Actions speak louder than words; so far your country’s actions are disgusting.

#115 get educated
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_East_India_Company
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Indian_Ocean_Territory
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagossians

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Island

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Federation_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uqair_Protocol_of_1922
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedouin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War
did any of you get the new british flyers ?www.falklandislands.com/images/view/464/489/259
as it turns out a colony needs some toilet peper..
www.upr-info.org/IMG/pdf/A_HRC_WG6_1_GBR_1_E.pdf
and they pasted twice in the document the expantionist visions in Antarctic Territory and Indian Ocean Territory, in case anyone had any doubts of UK's intentions in Antartica for a future colony.
Freedom of Information (No. 2) Bill Friday, June 04, 1999
[MR. HINDS] 870
“1970s. This was an affair that had to do with the purchase of helicopters by the British Government. The firm that was producing it in the United Kingdom went Bust, it closed down, and the question was who would supply helicopters to the military arm of that state thereafter. There was a big issue about whether theyshould look to Europe or to the United States. Then you had the Clive Ponting Affair. That came after the war for the Malvinas—those islands off Argentina—the Falkland Islands, as the British called them. The Argentines called them the Malvinas—if I recall. A senior public servant shared with a Member of Parliament the fact that the Prime Minister of that country had misled the House. ”www.ttparliament.org/hansards/hh19990604.pdf

@212. OAS. who cares about this insignificant almost unknown organisation.

The material on the OAS support was discussed at the time. While you were looking for your brain. It was crap then, and it's crap now.
Chileans and Uruguayans posting on here are disgusted by the abject way their governments kowtow to Argentina. Plenty of indication that Chile and Uruguay, at least, will not give Argentina any active support.

217 avargas2001:

All of those links are totally random.

@harrier61

harrier61, harrier61 that their govt. publicly support us is just enough for us.

This will legitimize any military intervention.

So after all we did peacefully all what we can and even though 34 other nations expressed their wish to see Argentina and UK talking in a civilizes way about the sovereignty issue.
But UKI like a child refuses, OK.
None can blame us if we have not other alternative that military force.
Do you get the idea?

So I advise you to update your all crappy military hardware else your fall will be very embarrassing.
After all you are the 2 military force in the west according with your own hype.

The word will expect a lot from you so you will have your 30 days of showoff you deserve.

Well you talk a good fight nicotine,I bet you are glad Argentinia no longer conscripts armchair warriors like you,maybe if they did war would not be your first option
grow up

@220. If you have the cojones, go for it.

Vargas, that's a Spanish surname, right? Why don't you go back to your home in Spain Vargas? I'm sure you could use your “teaching” skills there... not...

@220: Argentina has done nothing peacefully. It has no legitimacy. In 1982 itattacked a fellow member of the UN without warning and broke resolutions 1514(XV) & resolution 2065(XX) & also UN SCR 502.

When Argentina did this it lost all legitimacy permanently together with its claim to the Islands when it ended all existing differences with the UK in 1850 by ratifying the Convention of Settlement in Congress.

You are a fool to threaten the British. It is laughable. They are far stronger than you. They always will be. You have no stomach for war, they would break you to make sure you understood defeat and they have the means to do it.

Be in no doubt, in any future conflict, the British could choose to bring the full might of their military against the Argentine people & its territories. They have little patience for Argentine bravado and have not forgiven Argentina one bit for its crimes of 1982.

In any future conflict, Argentina would be lucky to have any power stations, bridges or air force inside a week. Argentina's entire maritime commerce would first be blockaded & then systematically sunk by Britain's nuclear hunter-killer submarine fleet.

No invasion fleet of Argentina could take the Islands; and then Argentina risks losing all its major cities and being destroyed as a state and as a people. Implanted Spanish & Italian Argentines are full of macho talk, but would scream bloody murder if they were extinguished the same way they exterminated the true & peaceful Argentines, made up of the many wonderful indigenous peoples

So much for Argentina being a well-balanced peace-loving democracy if all people like you crave is an excuse for war.

Do you not realise many people died in 1982 who should be alive today because of stupid nationalistic political ideology you spout?

Shame on you and shame on Argentina!

Escalation is completely wrong; peace and friendship is the right choice.
Cooperation & harmony is the correct strategy

Warmongers give peace a chance

@stick up your junta

War is always an option mate, especially when you have stubborn people on the other side supported buy silly politician in UK.

I don’t understand why are you so concern about what we do. You should be concern about what you do or what you can do mate.

After all for you would be a picnic according with the confidence you have about your RN.
What is the problem? Since when you are you concern about your enemies at war?

I can just promise you a good fight no more no less.

@harrier61

Don’t worry mate we have for that and to go even further lets see how far you silly govt. will push this time.

@ Domingo

Yeah, yeah Domingo, so tell me why are you so concern UKI is strong, plenty of weapons, a strong economy wit a lot of financial resources and al the hype you want.

So you have a secure win win situation here you should not be afraid.

But you know what? We don’t care mate simple as that we will fight again for what is our and for our rights. Malvinas are Argentinas plain simple. What part you don’t understand of it?

I can just promise you a good fight no more no less.

No you cant nicotine you are not in the armed forces,you are full of macho poo.

one does not wish to upset the apple card, or destroy the dreams of argentine, but size is of no importance, you cannot beat experience or , fire power, if you remember your history, Britain, or the ROYAL NAVY, took on, not one BUT two super powers, Spain and France, and beat them both,, we went into that fight as the under dogs and came out a superpower, they went into that fight bragging how big and tough they were, and came out with nothing, absolutely, nothing, so i say to you, stand up to Argentina and teach them that if they mess with you, they may et a bloody nose, if you don’t try, you will never know,

#219 really ?
maybe I didn't post them properly and you are just too darn lazy to search for them, let me do the work for you, here !
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Company

you can disregard the links, there are there for people who want to really know what brits in here are all moaning about, but don't ever forget that we are not alone and there is always another point of reference to an argument, otherways it would be called a dictation, I find them links very much relevant to this issue, we don't want to forget what we are dealing with.

you missed quite a few out,
murder of the innocent by Argentina,
military invasion by a dictatorship,
warmongers by Argentina,

brainwashing of the people by Argentina,
brain-dead that post wikapedia, on a blog to prove he can search,
but cant admit the truth, that his country just attacks anyone they don’t like,
all mouth and no guts, run rabbit, run rabbit run run run,

225 NicoDin and the argentinean gang:
I do understand that the Falklanders have the birth right since 1833 an so on to be what they are FALKLANDERS. It's very sad that thinking rational people don't understand that it’s their birth right to decide to be independent from your 3er world country Argentina. They don't like your italian& spanish, “cabecita negra” culture with a mix of Nazi Germany, mentality. You and your KIND are blind to the fact that the islanders are a country of their own. If you will let them live in peace in their land, I’ll not be writing nothing to you. The islanders are free to choose their future; for sure they don’t wanna be an Argentinean colony. Now, what part don’t you understand, Nic ?

@230 Liberty.

Two small points. British sovereignty began before 1833. You use the words “rational people”. Have you not yet realised that a large majority of Argentines are not rational. This applies particularly to those that you refer to as NicoDin and the argentinean gang. They are brain-scrubbed fanatics.

hear hear

I see we have the usual meandering thread .... NicoDIN prefering the war option (and I do think it's their only real chance) but then talking about putting up a good fight, which they've not managed before! Gassious is off on one and no-one knows or much cares what he's on about, Marco trying to raise old OAS (non) news ..... all in all no change.

The Falkland Islands have been British for 320 years - Get Used To iT :-)

231 harrier61:
You got that right, but they and their dictatorial government are really a pain in the arse. They manage to make everything difficult, like going to Montevideo airport pick up a flight and go directly to visit you guys in the Falklands. They don't wage a war but in a way they do. They don't use weapons per say but they do. They ostracized you from the rest of the world in every way they possible can. Let’s be clear on this, they signed after the 1982 war an unconditional surrender. But they got around it by blockading the rest of the world to get to you. They lost but they’ve the upper hand in many ways. What is your point of view on the matter?. Argentina is getting away with who is passing thru with what. Come on!!... They even stop shipping for “inspections”. What do you call that?

@briton

Nice curriculum, but are you planing to apply for a new job?

We have defeated Spain, France and 3 times your nation including with a coalition with France.

We have a very impressive CV too but this is history.

So let be serious do you really mean to scare us with your Royal Navy mate?

No way mate you have to come down here and bring a lot of plastic bags with you.

@Hoytred
“NicoDIN prefering the war option (and I do think it's their only real chance) but then talking about putting up a good fight, which they've not managed before”

I think that the 300 Brits men that have died in 1982 and 1000 injured and the survivor commanders won’t agree with you.

You're making yourself look daft NicoDIN ... we quickly cobbled a small force together and sent them 8000 miles against the whole of Argentina's forces ... and won. Want to see it again?

What on earth do you think the new runway on St.Helena is all about? 40 minutes flight time away. Can't you work that one out NicoDIM ?

#230 yes Argentina understands the british colony and we accept them being british, all we want to know is when will they go home to britain ??
you see, if britain didn't want them in UK there must be a reason, and you can see it right now they are a bunch of trouble makers, everyone in the world has to apply for a visas, what's so particular about this pirats ? people should be asking them if anyone came to bother them while they enjoyed they cattles left beind by the Luis Vernet and his gauchos, who'm by the way didn't bring any sheeps, and does this pirats even have the guts to admit any of this ? no they are too busy on a black gold trail, but it will wear off, just like the opium war and the occupation of hong kong, this pirats better hope the sheeps and the pinguin don't go extinct, too late !they appear to be floating dead on the beaches of Brazil,
http://www.worldcontributor.com/hundreds-of-dead-penguin-carried-on-the-coasts-of-brazil/57176/
I think british subjects need to should be more concerned with thier ivil ervants and stop antagonizing other nationals and their national territory.

http://www.worldcontributor.com/hundreds-of-dead-penguin-carried-on-the-coasts-of-brazil/57176/
“Then you had the Clive Ponting Affair. That came after the war for the
Malvinas—those islands off Argentina—the Falkland Islands, as the British called them. The Argentines called them the Malvinas—if I recall. A senior public servant shared with a Member of Parliament the fact that the Prime Minister of that country had misled the House.”

Why on earth do the Canadians allow internet access in their nuthouses ??

impotent rage does strange things to the mind

(238) Hoyt
To answer your question:
To give people around the world the opportunity to “kill some time” during the “dead periods” of their day :-)............

Now I have a question to you:
I have noticed that every time you mention the “Special Committee on Decolonization” you include the word ”discredited.
Who has discredited this Committee? When? Why? How?
Was it the F.O.G.? or the F.I.G.? or the H.O.Y.T.?

Could you help me out here?

@NicoDin: I don't see war ever as a win-win situation; I say there is scope for Argentina, the UK & Islanders to forgive the past & to agree on a happy future

My thoughts on a second conflict are only that yet more misery, hate, death & destruction would take place on both sides, as both sides would redouble their efforts - the fighting spirit of the brave Argentine pilots was admirable &I have no doubt such spirit exists in the arms of Argentina

I have no doubt both sides would fight bravely and honourably, but to what end? Another stalemate or continued escalation into full scale war until one side is defeated? This is stupidity at its greatest & most grave.
Many valuable lives would be lost, and enormous misery would be created for both peoples

Surely no modern democracies would ever choose such a crazy path for themselves again? This is all I mean NicoDin, no slight or offence intended to Argentina.Ok the military balance sits in the UK's favour but either way, war is no answer

For me, spending money on arms is generally a waste of resource that could better be spent on education & health. For me, it is a necessary evil to spend enough so that each country can credibly deter aggression from one another & to make the cost of war significantly outweigh the benefit of aggression, such that more rationale & peaceful ways for solving disputes are used

“Malvinas are Argentinas plain simple. What part you don’t understand of it?”

For starters I don't understand the continued use of propaganda & slogans throughout Argentine society & education to condition mindsets into a militaristic political ideology. “Malvinas son Argentinas” is a classic use of propaganda slogan

I really think Argentines should at least question the origins & motives of those people in the 1930s & 40s who revived the Argentine claim. Their politics in general were odious, not suited to a modern liberal democracy

The truth is the Malvinas are no more Argentine than Argentina is Spanish

Think - good morning!

1. have you not read their Resolutions, they discredit themselves by supporting Argentina's spurious argument that the Falkland Islands are a 'special case' and ignoring their own remit as regards 'self determination' = Discredited

2. From the Great God Wiki - ” The Falkland Islands Government has requested that the UN Decolonization Committee send a fact finding mission to the islands, to date that request has not been answered (the committee has never visited the islands) “ = Discredited.

3. From our Foreign Office - ” ... Although the United Nations General Assembly has not debated the question of the Falklands since 1988, the Committee of Twenty-four has continued to adopt resolutions calling for negotiations between Britain and Argentina. These resolutions are flawed because they make no reference to the Islanders' right to choose their own future. Several members of the Committee have acknowledged this omission. The principle of self-determination is included in every other resolution considered by the Committee...” = Discredited

4. Current membership - Bolivia, Chile, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Venezuela .... need I go on = Discredited

And it is the fact they they no longer act within their remit is the reason that their Resolutions are being ignored by the General Assembly over the issue of the Falkland Islands.

That took 15 minutes, I could probably go deeper !

A clue..simple british don't like to discuse at a table like civilized people do.
”Argentina is recognized as a leader in Latin America in the field of developing of nuclear energy. We intend to defend national interests at all the international forums, especially our sovereign rights on the Malvinas islands”, Timerman said.

http://english.telam.com.ar/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9523:hector-timerman-my-task-shall-be-to-increase-international-presence-of-argentina&catid=42:politics

(242) Hoyt

Ahhhhhhhhh:

1) They discredit themselves by ruling contrary to UK aspirations and supporting Argentina.........

2) They discredit themselves by never visiting the Islands............ (They never visited Argentina either)

3) They discredit themselves by fulfilling their mission as an official UN Committee and ruling that Malvinas is a very “Special Case”.
A “special case” in need of “special solutions”.

4) Current membership .......... Russia, India, China, Indonesia, Grenada, St. Lucia, St. Kitts & Nevis etc...
24 countries representing more than 50% of the world population and with deep “colonial memories and experience”.

In short:
Discredited “only” by the British for doing their job properly.
That gives them a lot of Credit.............

There is obviously a lot of emotion & passion on these issues, which is understandable. History is what it is, but I say all sides must forgive one another for the past & should choose a future which is good for all

The fact is that Britain is required by the UN to decolonise its Falklands in accordance with the provisions of General Resolution 1514(XV), as is Argentina, & apply the wider principles of the UN Charter

What eludes all, is a way to do this that satisfies all parties

Truly, the energy & effort of the international community should be to find ways to do this

For legitimacy, the C24 should really have no partisan members, & really any which have totalitarian dictatorships who refuse their own peoples freedom of political choice, are not in my humble opinion as a democrat, fit to oversee any matter of self-determination

The aim of the C24 is the full implementation of resolution 1514(XV) and
when its decisions are no longer consistent with this, it is fair to question their impartiality; certainly on reading special committee members comments, it is clear the ex-Spanish colonies are biased in favour of their
ex-Spanish colony , Argentina. The politicisation of the C24 by Argentina & its fellow ex-Spanish colony allies, is a misuse of the C24 & prevents it being an enabler for progress as it is seen to be corrupted from its original intent to implement resolution 1514(XV), covering the case of the Falklands/Malvinas. In fairness, Think, for the C24 to be useful to both the AR & UK the C24 needs to be seen to be impartial, unbiased & fair by all. Now, it is hard to reasonably claim this, in light of its members partisan South American make-up

The C24 purpose under resolution 1654(XVI) is to monitor the implementation of resolution 1514(XV):

“...to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions & recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, &to report to the General Assembly”

Next step ICJ?

Think -

1 - they discredit themselves by ignoring their remit
2- I wasn't aware that Argentina needed 'inspecting'
3 - they are not fulfilling their mission and have no remit for 'special cases'
4 - sorry, I didn't think you needed reminding about the other, mainly, latin and carribean countries on the C-24 ... they merely emphasise the biased regional nature of the Committee. Even 'colonial memories' makes them biased! It would be better balanced with a few of the old colonial powers on there too .... oh sorry, there's Russia and China of course!

The proof is in the pudding as we say and no Resolution from the C-24 has achieved anything, not any of the 44.

Domingo - ” The aim of the C24 is the full implementation of resolution 1514(XV) and when its decisions are no longer consistent with this, it is fair to question their impartiality; certainly on reading special committee members comments, it is clear the ex-Spanish colonies are biased in favour of their ex-Spanish colony , Argentina....”

Well put.

Discredited

(246) Hoyt

You keep mention this so called “Remit”......
What “Remit”.....?
Where did you find this “Remit”......?

Their remit is the job that they are supposed to do ... I think Domingo puts it very well (and it saves more cutting and pasting) -

” ... The aim of the C24 is the full implementation of resolution 1514(XV) ....“

Well maybe a small cut and paste - ” ... 2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development”
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_1514

I've checked ... no mention of 'special cases'. Hope this helps :-)

@Domingo

A good end of the dispute would be something that pleases the civilian Islanders and Argentina and not UK. We don’t have to please UK.

So the question is do you have the guts to contradict UK ruling?

@ Hoytred

St. Helena is 1050km south east from Ascension Island you were using AI as a base in 1982.
You will only gain if lucky 150 miles by using SHI and you will be more close to Africa that America.

The airport in SH was thought to be built since 2004 and until now is on hold due to lack of funding in UK budget.

Any0way at least you have something that fly on mach 7 speed I really doubt you will reach the area of conflict in 40 minutes.

See a map mate, I hope you don’t work for the Brit intelligence else UKI would be deploying troops in Africa.

This will be very embarrassing

BTW what have to do Spain in this?

@Think: The SC24 “remit” is set by its terms of reference, declared is General Assembly Resolution 1654 (XVI) entitled:

“The situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples”

and which declare that the General Assembly:

”1. Solemnly reiterates and reaffirms the objectives & principles enshrined in the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples contained in its resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960;

2. Calls upon States concerned to take action without further delay with a view to the faithful application & implementation of the Declaration;

3. Decides to establish a Special Committee of seventeen members to be nominated by the President of the General Assembly at the present session;

4. Requests the Special Committee to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, & to report to the General Assembly at its seventeenth session;

5. Directs the Special Committee to carry out its task by employment of all means which it will have at its disposal within the framework of the procedures and modalities which it shall adopt for the proper discharge of its functions;”

This requires states involved to take faithful application of resolution 1514(XV) and the General Assembly declares the formation of the special committee & sets its terms of reference to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions & recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, & to report to the General Assembly

The committee remit is limited to these terms of reference only; declarations of support for Argentina dispute of sovereignty by allied states falls outside this remit; instead its remit is to monitor & report to the General Assembly the UK's application of resolution 1514(XV) to the Islanders

Hope this helps

Think - ok, maybe a couple more cut and pastes, sorry -
Remit = Pronunciation:/rɪˈmɪt/
(remits, remitting, remitted)[with object] ........
3 refer (a matter for decision) to an authority:
the request for an investigation was remitted to a special committee ....“

And from the Great God Wiki = ” ... The Special Committee on Decolonization (also known as the U.N. Special Committee of the 24 on Decolonization, the Committee of 24, or simply, the Decolonization Committee) was created in 1961 by the General Assembly of the United Nations with the purpose of monitoring implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples.....”

The declaration is as my link above ... hope that helps :-)

Nico DIM - the airport project is being put out to tender again, now let us review .... Ascension (a military base in all but name), St. Helena (new airstrip?), Tristan de Chuna (needs work), Falklands (good training ground, runway being refurbished) and then, if you wish to peddle on down to our (NB) Antartic area you can add, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands ...................... as I said on another thread, stepping stones down the Atlantic to the Antartic.

What do you think this is all about? The Falklands Islands alone?

As for your final question .... Argentina did not exist in 1806/07 .... it was Spain that we fought, and have - on so many occassions. You need to work on both your history and Geography :-)

“So let be serious do you really mean to scare us with your Royal Navy mate?”

Worked last time didn't it? your navy sat in harbor almost the entire war.

(251) Hoyt
I know what a Remit is. Don't be silly.........
You are just interpreting the very ample and free remit of the Special Committee on such a narrow way that it would make any action impossible.
I know that would be your wish, but it is not what the remit says.

And please leave poor Avargas and NicoDin alone, they have enough problems as it is .........

I , personally, choose not to debate with the totally deranged segment of the British side in here...

What can you possibly dialogue with a person that declares on British media? :
“”If British forces find themselves incapable of appropriate action, I will be glad to travel to South America and execute potential terrorists, i.e. anyone incapable of accepting FIG and UK sovereignty.””
Well.... that is exactly what this: agent0060 / Aka: harrier61 / is saying in his comment on this article on the Sun!
http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/3a8a80d6f705f8cc/id/622599/cs/1/
A real Pro Agent 00............He just forgot to erase his personal email address :-)

Or what about trying to dialogue with a self confessed PTSD patient under medication and on the bottle that keeps insulting and insulting and insulting..........
(Just check Justin Kuntz Facebook wall............ You should change your privacy settings mate!)

“ ... You are just interpreting the very ample and free remit of the Special Committee on such a narrow way that it would make any action impossible....”

'Ample' and 'Free' .... hmmmmm, really?

As for the rest, I agree totally :-)

@Think:

“You are just interpreting the very ample and free remit of the Special Committee on such a narrow way that it would make any action impossible.

I know that would be your wish, but it is not what the remit says.”

What you say is your opinion, it is not what the remit says, which is literally:

“to examine the application of the Declaration, to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, & to report to the General Assembly”

you cannot reasonably argue with the actual terms of reference of resolution 1654(XVI).

I would say the special committee's fundamental purpose is:

“to examine the application of the Declaration & to report to the General Assembly”

& its wider scope is:

“ to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress & extent of the implementation of the Declaration, & to report to the General Assembly”

Perhaps that is an agreeable definition its remit for you?

I agree you can interpret these terms of reference differently as having narrow or extremely wide scope, but I would suggest the further the interpretation strays from the fundamental intent, then such interpretations are open to fair criticise. Don't you agree?

@NicoDin:

“A good end of the dispute would be something that pleases the civilian Islanders and Argentina and not UK. We don’t have to please UK.”

Yes, I agree that would be ok & I would support it. I have little sympathy with the past Machiavellian politics of the FCO nor their masters.

However, for once, the UK govt. & FCO appear to be faithfully implementing resolution 1514(XV), as they are required, which I support

I agree that the UK does not have to agree. I would also point out under 1514(XV) AR also does not have to agree. However, since the practical intent of resolving the dispute is future harmony, friendship & cooperation then for me AR satisfaction is desirable, not essential

A better solution, would be one where all 3 parties are happy

(255) Domingo

I have tried to dialogue with you before but I can’t cope with your “bipolarity”.
You are OK when on “top of your curve” (as at this moment, perhaps) but then...........
I remember you grossly insulting me in Spanish,............. fantasying in your texts with the total obliteration of Argentina............. not to mention your acid trips about Nazi Argentina.......
So,........... no thanks........... when I see your name on an entry I quickly move to the next.

Have a nice live
Think

@Think (256): As you wish.

I see this as simply changing the subject by you when and attacking me ad hominem when you do not have a counter-argument

Did I really grossly insult you in Spanish? If I did, that was not my intent. I apologise. My intent was to poke fun at you, light-heartedly.
As I seem to have caused deep offence, I apologise unreservedly. In fairness to me you did ask for me to respond in Rioplatense Spanish, which I obliged; I am sorry if I got it badly wrong.

I have no fantasy ever about the obliteration of Argentina, I just worry that with escalation then who know where it would all end if a stubborn militaristic one-upmanship continued it could end there, which would be terrible. I apologise if my frustration with those who call for greater & greater escalation & even direct confrontation, I felt it necessary to illustrate the crazy consequences it could lead to.

I would say to you again, the AR, UK & Islanders need to forgive one another for the past, and cooperate in true friendship for a happy future.

As to Nazism, I don't think AR was ever Nazi in the German, Italian or Spanish sense, but I do think evidence demonstrates the neo-fascist juntas of Argentina were strongly influenced by these political ideologies, if perhaps less extreme, & did set on a path of political indoctrination using the 'big lie' technique to embed a sense of irredentist, revanchist injustice to create an Argentine national cause, that did not exist before, specifically between 1850-1941, after the Convention of Settlement.

If you can provides insights to add to the context of my understand, and correct it where it is wrong, or confirm it when it is true, I would be more than happy to hear them.

I'm sorry my comment have upset you, that was almost never my intention.

Again, as you wish. You have a nice life too, Think.

Cordiales saludos! (I learnt that from you!).

Talking of acid trips, the biggest acid trip anyone is going on around here is the “malvinas argentinas” acid trip...

The problem with Argentina is that, despite its posturing and ranting, it cannot accept that its much-vaunted armed forces, after perpetrating a sneaky, underhand invasion and occupation, got whipped like curs by less than 10% of the British Armed Forces.
They bluster, they bully, they lie.
Britain would be prepared to sit down at a table and discuss matters because we are a civilised people. What shape should the table be? After all, with their right of self-determination, the Falkland Islanders must take part. So, the table could be an ordinary rectangular one, with the Islanders and the UK sitting on one side and Argentina on the other. Or it could be triangular. And, since the Islanders intend to stay in their homes and remain British, transfer of sovereignty cannot be on the agenda. But there must be an agenda. So what would Argentina like to talk about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Think

The Argentine Government lobbied hard in favour of Serbia, because a unfavourable judgement would undermine their claims that territorial integrity trumped self-determination (and there are several rulings already that show that to be bogus but by the by).

The concept of territorial integrity was advanced as a means of stopping colonial powers from breaking up dependent territories to keep areas of rich mineral resources or for any other reason. It was intended as a measure to protect dependent territories but Argentina has perverted that noble aim to advance a sovereignty claim ignoring the rights of the people who live there.

And look at where it leads Argentina:

It supports China over the people of Tibet and Taiwan.
It supports Serbia over the people of Kosovo - and lets not forget why Kosovo left Yugoslavia was ethnic cleansing.

In the past it supported Indonesia over the people of East Timor.

So how they can now claim the Kosovo judgment is in anyway a “victory” for Argentina is beyond me. I can only explain it by Double Think.

You often hear from the Argentine contributors how Argentina is committed to “recovery” by peaceful means, usually just before they turn round with an overt threat of military action if they don't get their way.

Again I can only explain it by Double Think.

They complain that the Falkland Islanders want nothing to do with Argentina, just after it has been pointed out to them this stems from Argentine threats, coercion and petty acts like storming out of the fisheries conference, the C24 and the prosecutors organisation because Falklanders are present.

Again I can only explain it by Double Think.

The C24 has long ceased to be of relevance, it no longer acts for the people it was intended to support, the people of dependent territories, instead providing a platform for nation states to deny self-determination of ... the people of dependent territories.

243 avargas2001:
“A clue..simple british don't like to discuse at a table like civilized people do. ”Argentina is recognized as a leader in Latin America in the field of developing of nuclear energy”.
There is nothing to discuss, Argentina wants the islands and the Falklanders don't want to be part of a 3er world country ruled by anarchy. Argentina’s nuclear program is obsolete. The have major leaks in storage at the Ezeiza Center and the Atuchas are running with Chernobyl technology.
257 Domingo:
“As to Nazism, I don't think AR was ever Nazi in the German, Italian or Spanish sense”
Argentina was the # 1 country in the world that harbored a large number of Nazi’s war criminals. There are a lot of information in the net that proves ties between Argentina and Nazi Germany. Just for starters:
“After World War II, under Juan Perón's government, Argentina participated in establishing and facilitating secret escape routes out of Germany to South America to SS Officials and Nazi criminals (referred as ODESSA network[3] ). Former Nazi officials emigrated to Argentina in order to prevent their prosecutions for war crimes, some of them lived in Argentina under their real names while others were given false identities. Some of the most known Nazi criminals that emigrated to Argentina are: Adolf Eichmann, Josef Mengele, Aribert Heim and Edward Roschmann among others”.wikipedia
I’m posting a link full of links that shows how deep Argentina’s leaders cover up war criminals.
http://www.casahistoria.net/peronnazi.htm#2._The_Nazis_in_Argentina

(260)
Right!
You got too much energy to switch off your mind
But not enough to get yourself organized.

Tsk, snooping Think, trying to intimidate me by telling me you know where I live? I've had death threats from Argentines before, even had them phone me, can't say I was impressed then, nor am I impressed now.

(263)
You are delusional again mate.... .... I couldn't care less about you...
Read what i wrote at (253) or better I copy it below so you can find it:
“Or what about trying to dialogue with a self confessed PTSD patient under medication and on the bottle that keeps insulting and insulting and insulting..........”
(Just check Justin Kuntz Facebook wall............ You should change your privacy settings mate!)

@Justin: (260) You make very well reasoned & intelligent points. Argentine State policy & behaviour w.r.t. the Falklands certainly seems like a bad dose of doublethink to me

It is a pity, that you are immediately attacked as a person, rather than your argument debated. I think it is wrong for such attacks to continue & there are one or two posters who almost always employ the ad hominem logical fallacy; it has no place and posters should stop it

@Liberty (261): I stand corrected, as to the extent of the state aid given to wanted Nazi war criminals:

www.casahistoria.net/peronnazi.htm#2._The_Nazis_in_Argentina

I'd thought it more the state turning a blind eye to sympathetic officials aiding the war criminals, rather than state sponsored support.

It's shocking.

Someone mentioned here the Orwellian Doublethink concept

Many years since that “1984” book.........
How was it?.... O yes......:

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

Does it only apply to Argentina?
Think..... Doublethink........

Argentina is no competition.

Why wont think get into the ring with Domingo ?
could it be a battle of wits and think is unarmed

Ah yes Think, so why did you look me up on Facebook then? If I gave a shit about anyone knowing I have PTSD, or that on certain anniversaries I toast to the memory of absent friends then it wouldn't be on my facebook page.

Funny how you seize on both to make something more than there really is. Getting desperate are we, trying to use smears and innuendo to do what you can't do with reasoned argument. Quelle surprise.

Let me guess whats next some mention of my daughter as she happens to be of mixed race? I'm also of mixed race by the way.

You're rather pathetic aren't you but we knew that anyway.

War is peace

Argentina preaches about its intentions for peaceful “recovery” of the Falklands and in the next breath threatens War.

Freedom is slavery

Argentina talks of freedom (listen to the national anthem sometime) but denies that the Falkland Islanders are a people with rights to their own homes - it views them as mere chattels.

Ignorance is strength

It views its ignorance as a strength, indoctrinating its population so effectively that few question its national myths; that the Falklands were stolen and that Argentina could be a great nation only malign “outside” influences keep it down. Nothing ever results from its own actions, its always someone elses fault.

So yes....Double Think.

THIMC
For the record....
Anybody interested in privacy on Internet has to “actively” wish and choose privacy.
An example: If you become a “ fan” of MercoPress on Facebook, your profile picture and name are bond to appear sooner or later in the little FB Window below the “most commented” list.
You don’t have to look..........They just pop up to your face....

@269 Justin. Notice how Twinky trots off in another direction? Probably has to contact the appropriate government to get told what to say.

Think

But I'm not a fan of Mercopress am I, you were snooping and trying to dig up dirt. Null point, do not pass go, do not collect £200.

lmao, he actually looked you up on facebook?

That's just sad.

now we are stalking, spooky

Yep, saddo stalkers, epic fail.

hi ,Like I said before [brain dead] they completely miss the real facts, and just listen to themselves all day,
All they do is brag, they remind me of the film, [ I dream of Jeanie] or dreams in the afternoon,
The Malvinas does not exist, its just a name they all invent,, they are backed up by nations,
Of which two of them are almost fighting each other,, as for the brave argies pilots, yes very brave
Against the navies harriers, but this time they will be up against the RAF, Euro fighters.
Sadly their wont be any pilots left, Argentina should just keep watching the films and worry abt there own future, and forget abt the FALKLANDS. British they are, British they will remain.
You can argue until you are blue in the face, the ONLY way you will get them is to fight for them.
All together now = [run rabbit] [run rabbit] [run run run ]

I wish to ask to the Argentines if they have been on Falklands Islands once?? I'm a lucky person because I did....Last year I had the oppotunity to visit Stanley and Shallow Harbour Farm so I knew the real people from City and Camp, and I can give faith that they are regular working & peaceful people that want to be free to determine their future. Thier ancestor arrived to an empty islands, isolated in the middle of nowhere,and through the centuries have created a developed country with their efforts and gutts. With only 3.000 inhabitants their economy and life level is higher than all the other countries in S. America. It was not a gift but the result of their own perseverance againts the weather, isolation and land capabilities. A lot of them left their bones there for a better future for their families, working so hard as only the pelgrims can do. Their Capitol city, Stanley is clean, ordered, with a happyly community where people from many other places with better life expectetions can live and be acepted as part of them. I have a lot of chilean families happily living there.
I lucky also because I have been in Argentina a lot of times (I know the entir Patagonia, B. Aires province include Capital Federal, Mendoza, Entrerios and crossed tha river to Urugay. You have an enormous country, one of the most riches of S. América, you have almost 40 millions inhabitants mainly with spanish, italian and welsh ancestors who arrived there as pilgrims and work hard to tray the same grow up a family the best you can do. The difference is the quality mof your democracy and authorities (like in the others S. America's countries) that were and are corrupts stealing the wealth that the people make in a country with all kind of comodities, good weather, good land capabilities, a long shore. Wich the result is??? Your gevernment keep you “fighting” with the neighbours to hide their depredation (How much money the Kirchner earned during their term at the Casa Rosada?? A lot !!

Kirchners Fortune: 14,5 Million U$D. ALL ACCOUNTED FOT.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/09/kirchner-couple-fortune-climbs-20.6-in-one-year-totalling-14.5-million-usd

Pinochet’s Fortune: 26 Million U$D. 20 million NOT ACCOUNTED FOR.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/09/kirchner-couple-fortune-climbs-20.6-in-one-year-totalling-14.5-million-usd

And don’t come with this myth that they are in government and they control everything.
They are being controlled and audited nationally and internationally by many people and organizations that don’t like their policies.

One good example is the famous case of the “suitcase full of money ”for the Kirchner’s political campaign carried by a Venezuelan businessman and stopped at Argentinean customs.
Tell me; if the money was from President Chavez to the Kirchners:

1) Why did Chavez not send it with diplomatic courier? The Venezuelan embassy has 12 persons with this privilege and they don’t have to pass through customs.
2) Do you think that if that suitcase was really intended for the president of Argentina it would ever been stopped by Customs? Our corrupt Customs in Ezeiza airport? Where everybody that has a friend that knows somebody can pay 400 dollars and pass without questions?
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/09/kirchner-couple-fortune-climbs-20.6-in-one-year-totalling-14.5-million-usd

But the real question here is:
How many people did the Kirchner's kill during their term at the Casa Rosada?
Answer: 0

How many people did Pinochet kill during his term at the Palacio de la Moneda?
Answer: more than 3.000

http://en.mercopress.com/2010/07/09/kirchner-couple-fortune-climbs-20.6-in-one-year-totalling-14.5-million-usd

You seem to have hit a nerve there Sergio

Think:

ow many people was killed by your government known as military Juntas ???
At least ten times that the supposed victims of Pinochet regime, meaning over 30.000 killed.

About the suitcase, are you kidding me ?? or you believe in the Disney fairy tales, yet ?? It was probes that the suitecase came from Chavito a close friend of the K couple....... What a team, huu !! Chavez, Morales, Mrs K. and the others in the lefty perties gang....!!! With those friends, who need enemies...???

Why your country with a vast land and sea and a lot of resources is Just a “ in developement country 200 years after, but Falklands in less time , with a tiny area of land and sea and with limited resources is a ”developed country“ ???

In Chile, over the last 20 years of ”democratic progresist government” was lost a lot more money from the public budget that the USD 26 million you said, as I can mention i.e. Codelco, Railroad System, Public Works Ministry, ENAP, Educational Ministry, Transantiago, among others.
That´s way I said that all our S. America governments.
But, as you know, there is no worse blind that whom don´t want to see, no worse ......that whom don´t want to hear and, of course, not worse #$%&?° that whom don´t want to understand ....!!!

Why don't you live in peace and let the other to live in peace ??

Not exactly a fair comparison Thinky.

How about Pinochet vs Videla. How many people did Videla's dictatorship kill? Wasn't that when they were pushing people out the back of aircraft (alive) into the Atlantic?

(280) Sergio Vega

The VERY BIG difference between You and Me Señor Vega is that:

I totally abhor anything that has to do with the Military Juntas in Argentina. Anybody can read my numerous comments with my contempt about our military in the archived Mercopress articles from the last 2 months.

On the other hand, you sir declare in your comment (202) on this thread:

“” I don´t believe that it can be a problem that I’m a proud Pinochetista and you are a Socialista, because we are talking about the right thing to do as a human being. “”

A “Proud Pinochetista” talking about the right thing to do as a human being...:-(
Yeahhh ..............right!!!!!!

Methinks Snr Vega hit a nerve and you are of course correct sir. Think has tried to spread so much muck with smears and innuendo, yet if your confront him with hard facts about the Kirschner's corruption he defends them vigour; its called hypocrisy.

Un abrazo

I don't think Think will ever give us the answer to how many people the Videla dictatorship “disappeared” in their dirty little war. What Pinochet did is child's play in comparison.

Sorry but I don't think you can easily dismiss what Pinochet did in Chile either. Whether it was 3000 or 30,000 both regimes were evil. Pinochet was an evil man and the world is a better place for his passing.

Chile is now a prospering and robust democracy, doing rather better than Argentina. But then it doesn't resort to such childish temper tantrums on the world stage.

Thinks's comparison of Kirschner's Government and the Pinochet regime was a Red Herring, he is alway fond of them. Don't fall into the trap, thats exactly what he wants; next time you'll be Pinochet supporters.

Fair point Justin, but whatever comparison Thinky makes (red herring or otherwise) Argentina is not going to come out of it looking good...

I love thinks ersatz indignation,when you criticize the K's and he go's off into one how bad pinochet was,k's are now

Oh my god trolls are everywhere haha.

Anybody had sent invitations to trolls to this party?

I just wanted to say... go home all of you british pirates!

Malvinas belong to Argentinas! Las Malvinas son Argentinas!

take note argentino,i will be asking questions
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9xTWN6j60Q

289 Argentino:
“go home all of you british pirates!”

I understand your frustration. Since 1833 the British Empire took possession of the Falkland Islands. It’s very sad that since then many generations of British descendants grew up to be the new island’s natives. I understand that Argentinean arrogance cannot accept defeat and unconditional surrender (later changed to surrender). Please read all of you that parrot your government’s propaganda w/out accepting that you LOST!!...Cry for me Argentina !!!...Maybe this link will refresh your memories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_surrender_in_the_Falklands_War#cite_note-2

I quite like this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmQUYMNVw4M

Didnt get to thank the Argies for the gift
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tiger_Bay

Argentino, go back to Spain you Spanish pirate!

Cry Argentines and remember. Next time it will be much worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aZdAyHVjzQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aZdAyHVjzQ&feature=related

Think, a while back you said you had closed “your” ports to the Islands? Since when? Funny that it is actually Argentina that wont allow Argentine goods to be shipped here direct - you never have for decades! Then you get all surprised because we dont want to fall in love with you all.
All her ladyship,s decrees have done so far is irritate us, we have alternatives and use them now instead. But oops - it has successfully deprived a southern zone of Chile of business worth $8million plus, causing chileans to loose jobs in their own country- congratulations Argentina you sure are good at impressing your neighbours . even Uruguay got a bit fed up when one or your naval vessels entered Uruguyan Territorial waters back in May to try and hassle a cargo ship that was on its way to Chile - not even on its way to us!!

This is an especially, although long one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhLzDC6bLPE&feature=related

as before Argentina wants what it cant have, so it cries for them. Then it gets angrier, then it turns to violence, and picks on the defenceless, and taunts the big fellow from as far away as passable, but near enough to there home ports just in case the big fellow comes a looking, ,cowards,

(296) Islander1

You say:
“” All her ladyship,s decrees have done so far is irritate us. “”

I say:
Irritation is normally the first symptom for much more serious conditions........
Could be a Flue......... Could be Cancer

or piles ,she is a irritating arsehole

300 posts and 2 days left........
Mr Spink must be a happy man.
A “Peace Flotilla” of words to the rescue!

A “Peace Flotilla” of words to the rescue

Well talking aint going to get you the Falklands

{Yes, I´m sorry. Here the issue is not the Pinochet government neither the red 20 years government after that in Chile. We can discuss about this long enough but in another forum dedicated to clear the real facts that happened on those times with the both side versions, not just the lefty propaganda had sprayed around the world.
Here the issue is that the country called Falklands Islands is being attacked by a neighbour that has not any right to claim sovereignty over them, and the people who was born there (from centuries) has self determined that they wish to be a member of the Commonwhealth as free country that will help them to go ahead on defence and external affairs. Also, the rights of third neighbours has been cutted for this illegal pretension that beaks UN resolutions, International Laws of, Navigation and signed Treats. That's the issue and please, don´t divert us from this matter.

Please, argies, get back to the real facts and issues. Don´t do an around running to escape from the truth....because the real truth it´s not your truth !!!!

A proud “Pinochetista” you declare to be.........
Then and now.......

A man that thinks that it was OK to kill his compatriots just because they wanted schools, hospitals and equal rights for everybody.............
A man that, without blinking would have send me to my death 35 years ago just because I am a socialist .
A man that, without blinking would send my sons to their death today just because they are socialists.

This man wants to lecture us about, Freedom, UN Resolutions, International legislation and Real Facts!!!!

What are real facts for you mate?
The white fenced well-kept gardens of Stanley?
Or Victor Jara’s hands, severed by your friends?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKfKpxAs-68

Hasta la Victoria... Siempre

Well Sergio you know how to pull thinks strings,got him in full martyr
mode

296 Islander1, you and all the Falklanders:
I returned back to “Zuluguay” in 2004 for health and economic reasons. I don't agree one bit with Uruguayan governments’ policies, now or in the past. I’m ashamed. Latino heritage or else, my birth country had taking sides with Argentina’s isolation actions against a small island nation. Today the country that our politicians backed up is doing the same to us. What goes around comes around.

What a nice bunch of “locals” you Brits attract as allies.

A self-proclamed fascist in Chile....
And a proud patriot in Uruguay (that doesn't even speak Spanish!)

Keep them please!

Keep them please

Cos you are tripping over non Argie malvinists on this forum

Think (#)
What a nice bunch of “locals” you Brits attract as allies
i agree with you think,
shame about your allies, corupt dropouts

I repeat you, argies.... The Pinochet topic is for another forum and I can demostrate you the othar side of the coin, the real one...for the 95 % of the Chilean people yhat wasn´t affected for violence or death.....

Now, in the matter that is supposed to be analyzed here. you have no one argument to make your possition valid, just more of the same....like the lefty reds learn to act in all the situations...lay....lay....lay.....that always something left.!!! Up yo the truth is reconigzed by history (the Berlin wall fell is an good example)
Just take more time to overview your governments acts and cash flow into theri pockets and then, only if you have time enough, back to bother the Islanders and their country that may be you'r complicating with the blockade, but they have much more resources that you ever could imagine to keep living happily and growing up on their Islands. The affected countries with yor arrogance are your neighbours Uruguay and Chile, that I hope, learn their governments who is the the “friend neighbour” that they backed up and is turning as a bad desition made.

Now, check your arguments and files and after that, if you can add some intelligents words write them. If not stay quite and steady.....May be other good minded Argentines could replace you with the discusion...

JUSTIN: As usuall you comparisons are so ignorant and lack of objetivity, you say that chile has a robust democracy, and it's more prosperous than argentina, this is evident that you keep on knowing just one side of the reality, it's true that chile has planty of admirable aspects like argentina, beside both countrys improved so much their social situation, but the diference about prosperity betwen both, is not considerable, both are still very unequal societys, beside argentina is the only one country of latin america that is judging the torturers, and the responsable politic authoritys of the dictatorship, that started after the congress derogated the pardon to the genocides, maybe your rejection against the kirchner does not let you see the total reality, like i said before, i am not kirchnerist, i only recognize that we had many achievements since 2003, but they made also big mistakes, that's why i dont want another k gov. Beside they are not just a populist and demagogue gov., like many ignorant people say all the time, they just parrot all the crap that hear from the media, and dont discern anything.
Regarding the blockade, i dont agree in absolut on blockading civil population, i have allways defended the rights of my country on the malvinas, but this is not the way of recovering anything, i only agree on blockading the ships that provide oil explorations, but no more.
Anyway the reality of today, is the result of the intrasient of both sides, my gov., keeps on ignoring the islanders, and the islanders keep on refusing to discuss the sovereign dispute with argentina, instead of dialoguing to find a fair solution that could take into account the wishes and the interests of both sides, they prefer to keep on having a behaviour of intransient.

310 Sergio Vega:
Argentineans are a class on their own, most Latinos are very ignorant, selfish, self-centered, just care about their own little world. Self inducted ignorance is the biggest problem. I realized that long ago, just talking to people. There is not a logical reason for Uruguay, Chile and Brazil not to do business with Falklands; they just don’t care for the Anglo Saxon islanders living in the islands. It’s mainly because England has been demonized as “pirates & colonialists”; shame on them and their governments.

As a way to describe how the people who live on tha Chilean Patagonia, I transcribe some paragraph from a letter to the director sent by our National Prize on History Mr. Mateo Martinic, well known in the historian enviroment as well as in Chile but in Argentina and a lot of Countries involved in our develpment from our beginnings. You can find it at www.laprensaaustral.cl

The first paragraph.
The P. Arenas Mayor V. Mimica initiative to sponsor the trip of Maguellanic students to Stanley, with the goal of improve their acknowledge of English and, beside, to contribute to promote the reciprocal deal with the islanders students, has been one more demostration - and successful , for sure – of an old and interesting relationship between the Magellanic Region and the Falklands Islands, started more than one hundred and sixty years ago (Can be found more information about in the article “Realaciones y Comercio entre Magallanes y las Islas Falklands 1945-1950, published by Magallanis magazine, vol. 37 nr 2 Universidad de Magallanes, 2009).

Another paragraph from the same letter.

For that, we are concerned to see the latest signals that answer to a policy adopted by Argentina , which keep an diplomatic issue against UK about the South Atlantic Archipelago, to isolate the islanders and that being functional to their position of pretension of domination ,take out their will (of the islanders). To the Falklaners, the relationship established with Magellan is needed and convenient due P. Arenas is like a pivot for their projection to the entire world, beyond they keep a good connection wit their far Metropolis. As Chileans, an without consideration about the recognition made by our country over the Argentine claim of sovereignty on the Islands , we consider with pragmatic sense the kindness and benefits to keep the old relationship because it is corresponding to the history and to our interest on the American southern area and adyacents.

(310) Sergio F Vega

You say:
....like the lefty reds learn to act in all the situations...lay....lay....lay.....that always something left.!!! Up yo the truth is reconigzed by history
I say:
Of course........ All “lefties” lies..... Pinochet was a good man...... History will recognize him one day..........Somebody should kill those communists.........

You say:
Now, check your arguments and files and after that, if you can add some intelligents words write them. If not stay quite and steady.....
I say:
My arguments and files are clear, clean and free of blood, thanks.
If I were a Falklands parent I would think twice before sending my child as exchange student to Punta Arenas and risking him/her to live 3 weeks in your ”caring , christian and facsist home”.

Liberty 312 said:
” It’s mainly because England has been demonized as “pirates & colonialists”
May be because England is well know around the world for being pirates imperialist, that is the reality.
Malvinas is part of Argentina and South America not far away England nor Europe.

I were a Falklands parent I would think twice before sending my child as exchange student to Punta Arenas and risking him/her to live 3 weeks in your ”caring , christian and facsist home”.

Cracks in the alliance :-)

Thank You Mr. Roger Spink for confirming that the Argentinean strategy is correct and could work!

”” If Falkland Islands businesses are not allowed to naturally grow and prosper, this will slowly impact on the vitality of the Falklands economy. The much touted Economic Development Strategy could quickly become a worthless document, unless The Falkland Islands Government shows that it is making all efforts to robustly defend us and seek from the British Government that it has a firm hand on the tiller of South Atlantic diplomacy. ””

Somehow this paragraph was edited in the above article :-0
Sraaaange..... Maybe it was considered “irrelevant”? :-)

I include below a link to the full text of your press release.... Well done.....
http://www.sartma.com/art_7887.html

Briton#298
You describe Ferdinando Alonso to a tee!!
Tell me please Marco, think, nicodin et al, 10 good things that have come out of your country ... roads apart!

Ohhhh ......I forgot Mr. Spink:
Your final “Punchline” was also edited out :-0

“”Argentina’s Governments actions appear to be motivated by spite alone, having killed any hope of progress towards their supposed goal“”

But we all knew it was there!...Didn't we?

I just wanted to say... go home british pirates!

Malvinas belong to Argentina! Las Malvinas son Argentinas!

Regards.

In your dreams “Argentino” (implanted Spaniard). Go back to Spain!

@Axel (311): You are right to point out that the criminals of the junta are being brought to justice in AR and that is to be applauded. Well done.

I agre there is intransigence on all sides. Partly because of the rights of the Islanders under 1514(XV) which they have independently of UK/AR say-so, and should in all honest be able to act alone according to the General Assembly's declaration.

However, practically all sides need to find a common solution satisfactory to all - this being the real intransigent issue

@Marco (315):

Argentina is not bereft of Empire building': Compare the size of Argentina in 1833 to now; it is more than two-thirds larger now than then. The expansion of these borders was bourne out of conquest & subjugation of the indigenous peoples.

If Britain is guilty of being pirate imperialists in the past so are Argentina & your Spanish Empire founding fathers

Both sides need to recognise their pasts and forgive them. Then decide to find and enjoy a good way to enjoy a happy future together

Thank You Mr. Roger Spink for confirming that the Argentinean strategy is correct and could work!

”” If Falkland Islands businesses are not allowed to naturally grow and prosper, this will slowly impact on the vitality of the Falklands economy. The much touted Economic Development Strategy could quickly become a worthless document, unless The Falkland Islands Government shows that it is making all efforts to robustly defend us and seek from the British Government that it has a firm hand on the tiller of South Atlantic diplomacy. ””
Somehow this paragraph was edited out in the above article :-0
Strange..... Maybe it was considered “irrelevant”? :-)

And your final “Punchline” was also edited out :-0
“”Argentina’s Governments actions appear to be motivated by spite alone, having killed any hope of progress towards their supposed goal“”

Very strange.......

I include below a link to the full text of your press release.... Well done.....
www.sartma.com/art_7887.html

Well there we go, as I predicted mention of Pinochet was merely the pre-emptive toward the launch of more ad hominem attacks and to avoid actually discussing the issue. How...unsurprising. You really should your handle to “DoesntThink”.

Oh and Think, gloating over a bigger nation bullying a small island community. I guess Freud would have a lot to say about that.

And Axel, no my comparisons do not lack objectivity, nor are they “ignorant”. If your sole source of information is Argentine, then your assertions lack objectivity and clarity. And further for information, the islanders are and have been prepared to talk to Argentina, without preconditions. Argentine a) refuses to talk and b) imposes the pre-condition that it must be about transfer of sovereignty to Argentina. Yes there is intransigence but it stems from the way Argentina has acted and continues to act, not from anything else. You have to understand that there was a growing youthful population who had begun to look upon Argentina without the jaundiced eyes of the older population but the Kirschners soon put paid to that.

The rest of those “contributors” like Marco or Argentino, grow up.

315 Marco and argentinians in general:
Like 322 Domingo commented:” If Britain is guilty of being pirate imperialists in the past so are Argentina & your Spanish Empire founding fathers”…Right, since 1833 England took over the Falklands and now there are an independent country with many generations of anglo saxon inhabitants. “Also during the 19th century mostly Uruguayan gauchos who settled in the islands in connection with the development of cattle and sheep farming industry that was to form the backbone of Falklands economy for rather more than a century, until the offshore fisheries assumed that role in the 1980s”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_Falkland_Islanders
So stop your insane claim to the islands, get over it. We were there too, working but that doesn’t give us the right to start an unnecessary conflict. Live and let live.

@Cadfael

1- First country to introduce Full free and Secular Education 1884 covering all degrees.
2- First full free university coverage country since 1918 open to everyone.
3- The introduction of modern rights for workers from 1944 (minimum wages, vacations, time hour limits, labour stability, etc.)
4- Family salary
5- Fist real Free Universal health care system
6- First Artificial heart in the world (Dr. Liotta)
7- First Bypass (medicine) in the world (Dr. Favaloro)
8- Dactiloscopy system to identify people.
9- Fist instrument in the world to make blood transfusion from stoked Blood. 1914
10- Pendular engine of internal combustion.
11- Modern pen like BIC (Birome)
12- Hydroneumatic shock absorber.
13- Martha Argerich (Pianist)
14- Jorge Barenboim (orchestra director of philharmonic orchestra of London)
15- Julio Bocca (dancer)
16- Iñaki Urlezaga (Royal ballet)
17- Maradona (the hand of god) hahahahahaha
18- Timerman (chancellor of foreigner affairs)
19- Fuerza Aerea Argentina (That guys that sunk you Royal Navy)
20- Guillermo Enrique Hudson AKA William Henry Hudson born in Florencio Varela (ex Quilmes)
21- Think
22- Marco
23- avargas2001
24- Jorge
25- Alejomartinez
26- Nico Dummy

Ah! I’ve got exhausted my apologies if I forgot someone on my list mates.

Now Cadfael can you tell me 20 good things that have come out of your country?

Pleaseeeee I want to see that.

326 NicoDin, while England was running the railroads, trolleys, gas company everything was perfect. After WWII the uruguayan government decided to nationalize English companies for beef. Now, I invite you, come to Uruguay and see what kind of railroad we have…NOTHING !!.
The Falklands in argentinian hands will end up being a dumping site for nuclear waste, like the Patagonia.

@Liberty

You are more stupid than I have ever thought how do you know that all was so perfect when you may be were even born?

I know because a right wind conservative told that and you also believe in god because was written in the holly bible. This is crap for stupid mate god don’t exist and nothing was so good under the British rule around here.

A little of history in 129/30 start the crisis in US dragging the world into recession and later depression UK was heavy indebted and for that introduce the policy of “substitution of imports” yeah mate UKI used the same as Argentina in the 30. This produces a lots trade problems and UKI defaulted its debts 1932 by an unilateral restructuring of debts. Argentina was a big creditor of UKI and I guess that Uruguay too.

Argentina waved 1 billion (would be a trillion today) pounds to UKI and then started the WWII and UKI after the war was completed broke.

Uruguay and Argentina seeing that were not way to get any money from UKI the accepted to cancel part of the debt in UKI assets like railways, subway, etc and UKI also offer to pay with military hardware, like weapons, bombers, bombs, destroyers, etc.

Then Argentina nationalized the railways in Feb 13 1947 and Uruguay later in March 31 1949.
Perón to get some political gain from the mess left by UKI and the conservatives in Argy land presented the acquisition as a takeover over Brits assets thanks to the strong position of Argentina. When in reality was a mess left of the conservatives and militaries of that time. This are the facts and has a lot of analogy with what happen today.

In 40 years time forward someone like you would say “Oh my god when BP was in the hands of British everything was fine, look now there is a drop licking from that domestic tube, horror, a same or Uruguay”

When the truth is this BP had caused the most tremendous disaster in the entire life of the oil industry in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89Wio_toFiE

Re n. 326.
1. No. Try United States.
2. No evidence.
3. Workers' rights - No. International.
4. No evidence.
5. No. Germany.
6. No. Dr. Forest Dewey Dodrill.
7. No. Dr. Robert Goetz.
8. No. Sir William James Herschel.
9. Possible.
10. No. François Isaac de Rivaz.
11. No. Hungarian.
12. No. France.
13. Possible.
14. Questionable. Not a conductor until 1966 in England. Also his name is Daniel.
15. Possible.
16. No information.
17. A cheat.
18.A stooge.
19. FAA - 5, RAF-100
20. Questionable. U.S. origin.
21-26. Unmentionable clowns.

That's 4!

@328
“When the truth is this BP had caused the most tremendous disaster in the entire life of the oil industry in the world. ”

Umm. No.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/23/deepwater-horizon-oil-rig-alarms
Turns out Deepwater Horizon oil rig safety system and alarms were switched off by Transocean (American) personnel, so they could sleep.

Whoops! Feet in mouth, eh?

“Whoops! Feet in mouth, eh?”

One would expect NicoDim knows that feeling quite well...

328 NicoDin:
I’m going to let go of your unnecessary insult and I’m going to compliment you for the rest or your posting and research. You’re 100% right about the deep debt that England had with a few nations after WWII. They owed Uruguay lots of money and they worked a deal with the railroads.
Now and I quote: “UKI after the war was completed broke”. Yes, because it was fighting against the “Evil Empire” or the “Axis of Evil” or Germany, Italy and Japan. While the world was at war, your country was helping the Nazis, like fueling U-boats, cooperating with Nazi intelligence, doing nothing to stop the Nazis from taking over the world. Moreover after war Peron and other argentinian government harbored Nazi germans all over Argentina, especially Bariloche and Patagonia. I’m attaching a link full of links regarding your country’s dark history:
http://www.casahistoria.net/peronnazi.htm
The net is full of links about the ugly historical past and present of your Argentina.

“Oh my god when BP was in the hands of British everything was fine”
Oil is a dangerous business; a few years ago in Alaska, the Exxon Valdez created an ecological disaster, blaming ONLY BP, it’s not fair. Your country is a total mess of paramount proportions, let’s start with: Ezeiza Atomic Center: “Argentina, defendant repeatedly to turn the territories that lodge them in uninhabitable nuclear waste baskets, like prove the contamination of underground waters with radioactive uranium in the neighborhood of the Nuclear Center of Ezeiza, in the outskirts of Buenos Aires”. Of course we have the ancient Atocha’s nuclear plants, the 10 paper mills on the Parana River, the Riachuelo, etc. Nic do your home work, then come and play in the big leagues !!!

Hey islanders if you a need a new CEO, English guy to run your failed oil exploration industry, Tony Hayward, AKA Tony Baloney(in USA) is just about to get fired from British Petroleum. After flooding the Golf of Mexico, this famous englishman is ready to flood Stanley with dark oil, if he finds any someday.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/07/26/bp.management/index.html?video=true&hpt=T2

http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/07/26/bp.management/index.html?video=true&hpt=T2

332 Marco:
No matter if they find oil or not. Remember, your country will never set a foot in the Falklands. It's sad to be and feel a looser, isn't?

Are you sure Liberty? I put my two feet in Malvinas Islands, Argentina more often that you imagine,

334 Marco:
I'm saying Argentina; you maybe have a visitor’s pass, whatever. I'm not a diplomat, I'm a soldier and I don't love my enemy.

1- US doesn’t have a full free c for all degrees
2- Since 1918 university entrance is open to everyone and is independent from govt. self-governed and free of charges. Known for people that went to a good school in every part of the world as the University Revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution also see Limar manifesto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution and also influenced the reformist movement in all Latam and was used as a base in the French may of 1968. Right again mate
3- The rights for workers from 1944 are today international in the advanced world
4- Family salary, people withdraw here every month . 5- Fist real Free Universal health care system, German system was not free and universal mate was an insurance type what is another thing. You are wrong again mate.
6- Artificial Heart US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution
7- First Bypass Favaloro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution
8- Dactiloscopy system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution you wrong again
9- Fist instrument in the world to make blood transfusion from stoked Blood. 1914 do you want a copy of the patent?
10- Pendular engine of internal combustion. Again need copy?
11- Modern pen like BIC (Birome) Argentine/Hungarian.
12- Hydroneumatic shock absorber. You are talking about another thing.

20. Guillermo Enrique Hudson William Henry Hudson and he never was American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution

The rest is just crap.

@ Liberty

You are totally wrong again and you are full instrumented by the US/Brit propaganda.
So I recommend you to read Treaty of Versailles, The Weimarer Republik or Weimar Republic.
And you would understand how Britain, US and France help to rise Hitler to power.
See also this documentary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Revolution
And then I will give another links showing you the true faces of the British Empire.

Then come back and we can start to talk about Argentina, Peron, Nazis, etc.

One more thing for you lefty red THINK, what about your politics ancestors, as Lenin, Stalin, Hönecker, Caecescu, Ho Chi Min, Mao Tse Tungm and other kind of withe little lambs ? Poor Victor Jara, Allende, Altamirano, Corvalán and the other in the lefty red gang were a very nice guys that never killed even a fly, like real sweet nuns. Don't joke with us, boy...!!!
But, I insist you. The issue is the Falklands Islands freedom to choose their future and not my politic vision in the chilean internal matter.
Just answer the question made by your oponents and don´t mix the issues to hide your lack of arguments.

Liberty, I do not consider you my enemy nor I hate you, I just consider you an illegal alien in my land, Malvinas Argentinas , Argentina.
PS hurry up to hire the famous englishman Tony 'Baloney”Hayward for the failed oil exploration in the islands before he goes to Siberia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100726/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill

(337) Sergio F Vega
Want to talk about corruption then???
What about your own.....

Your “trip” to Stanley and Shallow Harbour last year?
“A scientific trip financed with public fundings” was the official title.
Paid in full by the University of Magallanes to a bunch of incompetent friends of the rector.

Contacted some of the students and they are furious about the manner the meager resources from this excellent but poor public university are misused.

Your only “mission” at this trip Sr. Pervan, was to find some old Land Rovers you then could import and resell in Punta Arenas from your own personal business.

Marco, it's you who's the implanted Spanish alien in the land which belongs to the real South Americans: the Atacama, Avá-Guaraní, Diaguita-Calchaquí, Huarpe, Kolla, Mapuche, Rankulche, Toba, Tupí-Guaraní, Comechingon, Ona, Tehuelche, Yamana, Chané, Chorote, Chulupí, Diaguita-Calchaquí, Kolla, Ocloya, Omaguaca, Tapiete, Toba, Wichí, Charrúa, Lule, Mbya-Guaraní, Mocoví, Pilagá, Toba, Tonocoté, Vilela etc.

Marco, you're just a talker. I live by this code, yes you're my enemyand you argentinins don't any code:

“This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will kill. My rifle and myself know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit our enemy. My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will ever guard it against the ravages of weather and damage as I will ever guard my legs, my arms, my eyes and my heart against damage. I will keep my rifle clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will… Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life. So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!!

Next thing we will hear from this moron is that he went into an Uruguayan Kindergarten and shoot some toddlers.
What a Wacko!

342 Think :
That's the big difference between a 1st world American Marine and the Argentinians that have no code, no honor, discipline, nothing. You just whine and live on memories, played on the History Channel, your Malvinas documentary films of a lost cause. You argue about Malvinas Argentinas in your dreams and at the UN. Your Kristina goes around, her face full of Botox, playing Madonna. Please get a life.

I know this American that is first class, his name is Mr. Obama, and he does not like pirates imperialist that much nor negligent British companies that flood their ocean with toxic oil.
About you... I am afraid you need some help...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/3543882/Barack-Obamas-grandfather-tortured-by-British.html

U.S. Administrations come ... and go. This one may well struggle to make 2 terms. The British remain closer to the Americans than Argentina can ever get as you Foreign Minister knows.

On the issue of the Falklands the U.S. will outwardly maintain its nuetrality as that suits its image although not always the internal consumption of its people. A quick scan of the U.S. history over the Falklands however suggests that they are likely to favour the British in the matter. They have before.

As I said before, lefty red Think, you'r acostumed to lye.... lye....lye....because always something left...!!!
First at all, I have studied at the State Technnical University, now renamed Universidad de Magallanes, almost 40 years ago and I never work there, so the cientifics that you are thinking of are not me, both of them. (coincudently they have the same firts name like me) but they went to Falklands this year as you can read inThe Penguin News some weeks ago.
So, you'r lying as always you do...! By nature..!
My travel was a friendly visit to some Chilean friends that live there and another Islander that I met here...... Check your files, as I told you before...I think this is the problem with all your bad defence of your point of view plus a big mouth..... Please, be quiet and steady... Let some smart argies to replace you with valid arguments and no words in surplus (italian influence, may be??). As another friend told, change your aka to “un-think” or no-brain or some similar...
By the way, if you are capable to use Google Earth, make and big zoom anfd watch the flags on the mast there ... they are not light blue and white, they are navy blue with the Union Jack on the left up corner and the Desire for right and the right side, che..viste?

@ Hoytred

You live in an illusionary world my friend telling everybody about your “special relationship” with USA,etc.

Why none see that except you? Britain is getting every time more isolated in the world.
Europe and the Trojan poodle
Britain’s “special relationship” with America makes it modest, not arrogant

http://www.economist.com/node/16640261

Can you get back to reality now? Thanks

(346) Sergio Vega

Dig... dig... dig... because it’s always something there......... Yes, thats me....

Coincidentally the “scientific” on the trip of March 2009 has the same nameS and surnameS as you!....... In little Punta Arenas!.........Say no more

About lying......
I checked my files as you asked me to... I wanted to know your motivations to be such an a******

First you confessed to be a “Pinochetista” (I told you; not much possibility of dialogue there, but you insisted!)
Then I found out about your used “Land Rover connection” with the Islands.
The disappearance of the ship has dried your sources and made you “suddenly” interested in human rights.

I found also following post on the Argentinean Land Rover site in which you “sincerely” thank for the Argentinean help after the earthquake this year...
You even write: “It is in circumstances like this that you know your true friends”
http://www.landroverclub.com.ar/viewtopic.php?p=843486&highlight=&sid=9f5b78a3f43fe30971540a4d0eb85e26#843486

Yeahhhh right..... True Friends......

Rest assured that I will link this info to them so at least they are warned about what kind of amphitrion they can expect at the “Encuentro Land Rover Puerto Natales – Patagonia 2011 “

Seems to be that false adulation of both parts is the form you conduct your used cars business.
From my part Mr. Sergio Vega: I’m not buying anything from you mate..... Never :-)

Very interesting link from Nico above:
”The first grand delusion involves the “special relationship” with America. Britain’s desire to keep in with the global superpower, it is argued, makes the British into something like Trojan poodles: slavish in Washington (eg, over Iraq) yet cocky in Brussels, and willing to help America divide the EU and rule. The second accusation is that imperial nostalgia blinds Britain to the limits of its sovereign power today. To quote a senior European politician: “your country has never got over the British empire.”

I am also want to say, who's this idiot Sergio Vega?, Pinochet resuscitated I guess,
I am so glad that Chile have some great leaders like Piñera and Bachelet, good friends of Argentina and big supporters of our cause. Malvinas Argentinas.

Time will tell ...... and what's to get over, you'll still find us anywhere the sun is shining, even now 2010 :-)

Including the south Atlantic!

I know Hoyt, is tough to see your old broke little empire disappearing...you'll get over in London.

www.despegar.com

The sun never sets Marco .... not even now!

Can't see it dwindling much more either.

The Turks & Caicos were thinking about going to Canada but I'm not sure the Canadians want them. Bermuda is very happy with its status (and wealth), the Caymens show no sign of going, nor do the British Virgin islands, or Anguilla or Montserrat. Gibraltar is not under any threat, and the 2 territories on Cyprus are likely to remain if only due to the never ending crisis in the Middle East. The Indian Ocean Territory is full of yanks, but they only pay rent. Then of course Ascension, St Helena and Tristan da Cunha are the stepping stones to the Falklands, St. Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and our territory in Antartica. Did I forget Pitcairn ... well they've been isolated too long, probably better under lock and key:-)

Now tell me, with such a short history, what has Argentina got .....?

And I mean, got their hands on.

And you need to check out the word 'Empire' on Wiki ....... old maybe but 'little', really? I think most the disappearing is done. Queen's still head of the Commonwealth though .... now ain't that amusing :-)

Yes, I told you that I have a lot of friends in Argentina but it´s no mean that I must think in the same way they do...! Or any Chielan could have friends in Aregentina and vice versa because our borders differences. The problem with you is that you are beligerant and are trying to take the law in you own hands with no respect for the international laws, UN resolutions and signed treaties with your neighbors...

And yes, I sincerily said my thank you to the friendly people from Argentina that help us after the earthquake as well as I did with the people from Falklands that send their help for the same reason.

And yes, I have no problem to share with the Argentines Land Rover lovers that want to come here for a meeting where the issue will be just the interest in our all terrain vehicles (don´t forget that this vehicle is deigned and produced in the UK and is an icon for that country). So, those guys can't own a LR because it´s a bBritish car? Probably the most of them think that the Falklands belong to Argentina but is not the issue in the other forum.

And yes, I have been supplying spare parts for the Land Rover owners from that forum that need them, even some Argentienes.... Is that a sin, in your sick mind ? From the begining I was saying that both countries mus act in a peaceful way and seat at the conversation table but you with your arrogance have been insulting and giving no reason, just bad words, so I answered to your bad behaviour... Thats's all....!!!

And I insist...Those cientific coincidently have the same first name, but no the main last name....!!! So you continues lying...laying....laying ...taht always something left...!!!

I repeat.
The ONLY (and biiiiig) problem with you kind is:

You just decide to “stamp” a person as a communist (socialists, social-democrats, liberals, free-tinkers, all the same for you: !! Communists!!) and that's enough for you to destroy democracy, disregard every human right in the book, torture and kill thousands of compatriots......

The only difference between the mentality of Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Pinochet is that the last one was a good Catholic....

Sorry, but a Land Rover is only an icon if you've never owned one .... I've had that rather expensive experience, won't bother again.

Sooooooo True.....

“Landies” are the quintessence of Britain!
Fascinating and repulsive at the same time.
Beauty and the beast.
Beautiful exterior, shitty engine.

Nico dimwit, I simply dont have time to put down in writing all the Scottish inventions, suffice it to say there are 124 all in all.
Thanks harrier, nice rip-down job!!
Liberty, that sounds very like Rodgers' Rangers stuff to me.
OMG Think!!!
Almost right, I've got a 1983 Landrover 110 with a 2.5 TDi in the process (almost finished) of renovation.
That engine is acknowledged as being “bulletproof” and will do 50->60 mph in 3 sec in top gear, 70 mph easy and still pulling like a train.
Another great british invention!!! LMAO!

Land Rover Series I and II talk........Not that “modern diesel stuff”.. .....and some more........

And, like in Rugby.... England always gets a last second penalty when behind :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

The French have always been light footed....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

Yet a nice “Landie” picture but in a sadder context.
You Brits better stop “collateral damaging ” civilians death.
Could detriment your human rights record at the UN and no amount of “Support our Troops” will heal your returning men.......
Big brother Wikileaks is watching......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAg4DdXAp7Y

To finish, a little text from a Malvinas veteran to all warmongers on both sides.......
DEEP IN MY MIND WHERE NOBODY GOES

By Gus Hales
Every year on Remembrance Sunday
I sit in the corner of the British Legion Bar,
Dressed in blazer, shirt, Regimental tie
And polished shoes, with my head held high.

But deep in my mind, where nobody goes,
I see a wooden cross where the wind of victory lies.
“Three Cheers for Victory,” I hear the politician say.
But you never asked me about my victory.
And, if they did, I would have explained it this way:

It isn’t your flags or emblems of war,
Or the marching of troops past the Palace’s door.
It isn’t Mrs. Thatcher on the balcony high,
Reaffirming her pledge to serve or die.
But it’s the look and the pain on a teenager’s face
As he dies for his country, In a far off place.

It’s the guns and the shells and the Phosphorus grenades
And the wounded and the dead in freshly cut graves
Or the grieving wife or the fatherless child
Whose young, tender life will be forever defiled.

Or the iconic soldier with a shattered mind
Who takes the suicide option for some peace to find.
Well, that’s my victory but no one knows
For its deep in my mind where nobody goes.

345 Hoytred and the rest of the pro FREE Falklands against Argentinian domination:
I quote: “U.S. Administrations come ... and go. This one may well struggle to make 2 terms. The British remain closer to the Americans than Argentina can ever get as you Foreign Minister knows”.
I voted for Obama last elections being a Republican, I believe sometimes we need a change. To make a long history short, his administration is a total failure, like Jimmy’s Carter was. He won’t be re elected. Having majority in both houses, he managed to upset people in his own Democratic party and finally didn’t deliver the right stuff. No Universal Health Plan, no immigration policy, etc. He is the 1st president to sue a State (Arizona) over immigration policy. He is a good talker but not a walker, like the Argentinians.

Regarding the relationship between England & the U.S. is going to be good, always. Both countries need each other; they formed a good bond in the last century. A special democrat by the name of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and my other hero Sir Winston Churchill put it together. President Ronald Reagan helped America to come out of a serious recession and he was an excellent England’s ally during the Falkland’s war. The Anglo-American partnership is the only thing that keeps this world in balance; otherwise anarchy will be all out, like in Argentina and other counties around the world.

(357) Cadfael
You are just too sweet! You don’t even know what you drive.........

You say: (about my (356)comment)
Almost right, I've got a 1983 Land-Rover 110 with a 2.5 TDi in the process of renovation.
That engine is acknowledged as being “bulletproof”......... and still pulling like a train.
Another great British invention!!! LMAO!

I say:
Yes, Diesels are good engines... Invented by this Non British subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel
TDi being the “trademark” of excellent modern motors designed by the Non British Firm “VolksWagen“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel

Anyhow; Land-Rovers and Jaguars are today quite decent and nice Indian cars ;-)

@Cadfael
Yeah I know you are a writer and you have a lot to write as a reporter, anyway are you now back in Scotland?.

Don't worry my friend your secretes are safe with me but if I would be you I wouldn't call “dimwit” to someone that you don't know how smart he is haha

Guess who are the little pets in this game? I don't think we are and you?

Sergio said:Their Capitol city, Stanley is clean, ordered, with a happyly community where
Is too bad it does not apply to its imperial capital:London.
Buienos Aires subway are cleaner than London subway.
Not to mention Switzerland as a whole. Is a lot cleaner!
Anyway like I have said, I do not bother with Malvinas, since there is nothing there.
OiL..HMMMM, Argentina prospected in the '70, very little potential.
Much more potential in the Argentine Sea and the cuyo,-neuquen regions.
Usuahia, a lot closer to Antartica than Malvinas, a much larger town and alot more resources.
The rest does not matter!!
The brits needs Argentina, we do not need the brits!

@336. Trouble is, nico, that you go for things to support what has been drummed into you rather than checking the background. I was going to respond but I couldn't be bothered wasting time trying to persuade the brain-scrubbed. But you can add one thing to your list of things from Argentina. It's the only country whose inhabitants have learned to fart with their mouths.

@344. There's nothing first class about Obama. He's just a useless, loud-mouthed, lame duck. So he appeals to Argentines. Who can be described in much the same way.

@354. “destroy democracy, disregard every human right in the book, torture and kill thousands of compatriots...... ”. Isn't that what Argentina did? And continues to do?

@358. How nice of you to remind us of Gus Hales' poem. And who started the situation that required British troops down there. No-one likes war. Except those that start them. And who started one in 1982? And lost? But Britain is still on its territory. And you're not!!

@361. And your comments are aimed at showing you are “smart”? Oh, my aching sides!!

@362. Yeah, sorry about the dirt. It's all these foreigners we let in. As for Buenos Aires and Switzerland? Of course they're clean. No-one in their right mind goes there unless they HAVE to!!

We need you like a hole in the head Estevez... oh, and Estevez, that's a Spanish surname right? Why don't you go home to Spain?

To all warmongers on both sides.......
This poem is independent of time and place........ As poetry normally is....
Mr. Hales just happened to be in Malvinas......

DEEP IN MY MIND WHERE NOBODY GOES
By Gus Hales
Every year on Remembrance Sunday
I sit in the corner of the British Legion Bar,
Dressed in blazer, shirt, Regimental tie
And polished shoes, with my head held high.

But deep in my mind, where nobody goes,
I see a wooden cross where the wind of victory lies.
“Three Cheers for Victory,” I hear the politician say.
But you never asked me about my victory.
And, if they did, I would have explained it this way:

It isn’t your flags or emblems of war,
Or the marching of troops past the Palace’s door.
It isn’t Mrs. Thatcher on the balcony high,
Reaffirming her pledge to serve or die.
But it’s the look and the pain on a teenager’s face
As he dies for his country, In a far off place.

It’s the guns and the shells and the Phosphorus grenades
And the wounded and the dead in freshly cut graves
Or the grieving wife or the fatherless child
Whose young, tender life will be forever defiled.

Or the iconic soldier with a shattered mind
Who takes the suicide option for some peace to find.
Well, that’s my victory but no one knows
For its deep in my mind where nobody goes.

I THINK you mean Mr Hale happens to be in the Falklands...

Nope

JUSTIN KUNTZ:
You are wrong again, my source of information is not only argentine, i inform my self with those newspapers that support the gov., and those that are against it, beside i read also articules from el pais (from spain), after, i get my conclutions, actually i dont believe in any of them, because all of them omit information, that's why it's absolutly necesary that we read diferent points of view, after we must get our conclutions, when i read your comments, this is evident that you ignore many important fatcs, beside i can know much more than you about the reality of my country because i live here, and i have a deep knowleadge about what represent each of those son of a bitch that we have in the congress.
Regarding the dispute, i dont believe in your words, they dont coincid with what i read from the f.i.g., it says all the time that it prepares to discuss many important issues with arg., but the sovereignty is not on discution, i dont know what kind of predisposition is that, that's why i hold that there is intransigence in both sides, my gov., can't keep on ignoring the islanders, and the islanders some day will have to understand that it's only a fancy idea the fac that we drop on our claim, that's why it's necesary to find a fair solution that satisfys the wishes and the interests of both parts of the conflict, beside when i publish my survey, you will know why we hold that our claim is still legitimate, i have te opinions of diferent experts in international right, and i have too the words of diferent british experts, in spite that we dessagree normally, i value your opinions.

368 axel arg:
Not to make a long discourse out of an old claim. I’ve read enough of argentinian arrogance, especially being a Uruguayan living across the bloody Uruguay river.
Your claim will go ashtray because the Falklanders are the true inhabitants of the islands. The only way that you can get them back is by invading them again. As a Uruguayan know that you’re a bunch of cowards with not guts for war. The year 1982 and the outcome, hope it will serve you as a deterrent.

@365. So nice of you to set out Gus Hale's poem. I hope you remember who made it necessary for British troops to go to the Falkland Islands. Remember, it's not a good idea to start an argument, but if you get involved in one, make sure you finish it! As Britain did in 1982!
@369. Don't try to debate with axel. He's alright for a while, and many have tried to debate with him, but sooner or later there's a sticking point. Like the Falkland Islanders refusing to discuss sovereignty. He generally omits to mention that Argentina won't have any negotiations unless sovereignty is on the table. He also tends not to mention Argentine invasion and occupation troops filling Islanders' homes with human faeces. But none of us is perfect. It's just that some are more imperfect than others. alex is not the worst. Try jorge!, avargas2001, NicoDin and Think. That's a real bunch of losers!

hoyt 352, Your little empire is gone, even your largest company will be run for an american , to replaced Tony“Baloney” Hayward.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-27/bp-reports-record-quarterly-loss-on-oil-spill-as-dudley-replaces-hayward.html

Commonwealth ? , ask any canadian they will laugh in your face.

Marco, not exactly surprising since BP is a multinational, it has not been a British company for some time...

Go back to Spain!

371 Marco , I think the editor of MercoPress is argentinian, could I be wrong?...harrier61 and I posted some Falkland’s war youtube videos and they were deleted. It seems that you argentinians get away with explicit obscene words an you’re continuous posting insulting videos, no one bothers, you are the “untouchables”. The Falkland’s war videos are real documentary accounts…oh well…maybe they’re XXX, not allowed for argentinian viewers.

Argentines don't like the truth. They prefer their doctored history. Give 'em a few years and they'll be claiming that they won the Falklands War!
Maybe, if there's a next time, Britain should crush them down so far they won't dare bother anyone for 100 years.

Liberty,You are probably a desertor who escape US to avoid going to Afghanistan to fight those nuts, like you, call taliban. Get some help...

374 harrier61:
Oh man, if I'm laughing, you've a knack for joking and at the same time saying the truth. Argentinians are so head strong that if the hit a stone wall, they would knock it down.

21- Think
22- Marco
23- avargas2001
24- Jorge
25- Alejomartinez
26- Nico Dummy
you guys have just been TANGOED, get used to it, 6 men lost in a boat
pouring with rain, and sharing one coat,
left the Falklands, for ever they say,
around the moat, was 6 men in a boat,

I am beginnig to agree with Nico about that some islanders like briton, are running out of beer because the commercial embargo from South America continent, and now they are drinking kerosene from their useless jet fighters....baaad for their brains...

how silly when the sheep calls,
first of i am not a falklander, [any fool could have worked that out]
except an argies bargee, from a safe haven like the asylum, one has gone potty

Well, what can I said, I own a 90“ Defender '90 with the 2.5 lt diesel N/A and she had been incredible, it´s a non stopper car, run every day and in the worst condition....This car have won her fame on the rural work, on the war task and on the city streets, all in one.... may be if rhey ahve some problems in the last models is because the last company owner were not British......like the Indian owner in this moment.
I think that is a good start for a converstaion, because most of the people likes the LR beside the origin, as well as the beef is to Argentina.
Axel, even I don't agree with you about the legimaticy of your claims, at leats you offer a peaceful point of view and promotes the understanding between both countries, Argentina and Falklands.
Some of you, Argentines, have said that except the oil, the Island means no nothing... Well with those ”no nothingh” islands they have built a much more developed and faire nation than you with a very rich and big land, so will will be ashamed that you are not a developed country, just a 3rd order country nor a 2nd orden. That is not the peolpe direct fault, off course, but they voted their authorities so some of the responsability is on they. I hope that when oyu change your government next time can find a better option that makes your country can grow as it must to...Be sure that you can do it and you no need divert the matters to hide the lack of confidence in your authorities, Demand to them a crystal clear transparency as well as the new Chilean government is doing from now on because we were tired with the old corrupt alliance on La Moneda.
Theris room enough for both countries, working in a cooperative way to benefit of the South Atlantic resources.

380Sergio, I am truly sorry that your bussiness are way down nowadays, but I am greateful to President Piñera for his support,
Malvinas Argentinas.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/06/09/oas-assembly-gives-full-support-to-argentina-s-malvinas-claim

May be we can lost a lot of jobs and incomes due the illegality, stupidity, ignorance and selifhness of your governmet. But, really do you think that the Falklanders will leave tha islands? They are used to live isolated fighting against the weather, suppliying and foreing attacks and pressures, even invasion and war
Why don´t you both look for an agreement that give you the benefit of a good neighborhood and share what the ocean can offer you. I wish you that even it mean that we would loose our business there...

Harrier, not so funny but there are many Argentines who believe they nearly won the war. Increasingly, they're convincing themselves they could have won it, they should have done but thats by the by. The problem being that they're convincing themselves they should try again, witness the statements here, rather than the fact they should never have invaded in the first place. Its very similar to the transformation that took place in Germany between the wars.

@Sergio Vega

Sorry mate but someone has to show you about your big ingratitude toward Argentina.

Argentina provides more jobs than any other nation in the world to Chile.
Directly in home land and indirectly allowing your companies like Cencosud SA Aka JUMBO working here and Argentina represents the 40% of the total turnover of the company world wide. The list is very long of companies.

Argentina has always been one of the major Aid Donor to Chile in difficult times and had organized several festivals in land to rise funds and goods to be sent to Chile in the recent Earthquake you have suffer.

And Argentina and Russia were the first to arrive and provide assistance to people in need in the disaster zone.

Perú, yes Perú the country and people that Chilean always like to bush every time they can also provided greater help to Chile.

But you don’t care because you prefer to receive some 30 sat phones from US and a good speech from Obama than face reality.

http://www.elpatagonico.cl/?p=4731
http://www.elpatagonico.cl/?p=4731

http://www.elpatagonico.cl/?p=4731
http://www.elpatagonico.cl/?p=4731

Fine you can make a club with Liberty next time may be Mr. Cameron will go for your rescue.
Like Maggie did for Pinochet that after having provided to the British a lot of help he ended up in jail in UKI.
http://www.elpatagonico.cl/?p=4731

Good people are you really good.

@JustinKuntz
Your analogy forgot to say that Germany is the stronger and ominat country in Europe and that they have rebuilt the old Roman Empire again. So they won after all and you loose Britain now in the Old Britagna under the Roman Empire.

Interesting. After the Romans left Britain, our little island built itself up until it controlled the greatest empire the world has ever seen. Hitler and Mussolini tried to do the same. Lost.
Important thing. Britain and Britons were around more than 2000 years ago. And will still be around in 2000 years time. Argies haven't managed 200 yet. And, in that 2000 years, the only time when the Falkland Islands will cease to be British is when the Islanders choose independence.

NicoDin as usual you miss the point of the analogy, it was a reference to Santayana' dictum but you obviously missed it. And if you're so blinded by hatred of the British then you've failed to notice that the British Empire was not lost, the former colonial territories were granted independence. It was an anachronism in the 20th Century, just as Argentine colonial aspirations in the 21st are. Particularly in a country that claims to respect human rights.

@harrier61 & Justin

America succeed and UK is today the puppets of them but seems that the yanks are feed up of UKI mate, guess what?
We will succeed none will come to rescue UKI

And who cares about what happen with the Brit empire? Has gone like the Ottoman Empire or the Mongolian Empire that was 33.9 m km2 of land. Do you see anyone talking about how great the Mongolian are?

Can you talk about something of the XXI century mate?

None cares about your history just only you it is just an old crap mate.

So please stick with the XXI century please. Will you?, thanks

Buy the way when are you going to enter into the modern world and put some ATM machines in the Islands.

You don’t have the basic things and you fell like a super power?

Fair enough NicoDIM - in the 21st Century the Falkland Islands are British............. is that Ok with you :-)

Until we invade you again and turn people like you into a civilized human being. : )

Going for third time lucky then, ok, up to you although I'm not sure that makes you civilised, also I think that, as a reason, going to 'civilise' the neighbours has been used many times before!

Of course next time we may not stop at 'defence' :-)

SERGIO VEGA. JUSTIN KUNTZ.
SERGIO VEGA: What some of my compatriots can think about the claim for malvinas, does not represent the thinking of most us, oil reserves are the only important point for me, in fact we have much more reserves than what it could be found our malvinas, i am a professor of geography, i know what i say, beside diferent oil corporations are making many explorations works in diferent sectors of our territory, with or with out oil reserves from the malvinas, we can keep on developing our country, in fact, on wendsday, it was find an importan oil bassin in rio negro, beside, what you call a third world country, is the equalest nation from latinamerica, i can tell you much more about it, anyway in spite that ou social situation improved so much, we are still a very unequal society, on the other hand, when you read my survey, you will know why we hold that our claim is legitmate, like i said before, i have the opinions of diferent experts in international right, and i have the words of many british experts too.
JUSTIN. Y o still didn't answer my commnet it's number 368.

NicoDin
why dont you put your money where your mouth is,
stop bragging and go invade the falklands and get it over with,
[if you can]

“ ... i have the opinions of diferent experts in international right, and i have the words of many british experts too....”

That's how old spurts make their money .... by having different opinions. Still waiting for the new found original sources in your survey. But if they're not new, then they're just reinterpretations ..... Argentina is good at that!

@briton
And you have still any doubts?

Invading a small island community for refusing to bend to will and dominance of a much larger nation? This is your definition of XXIst Century behaviour?

Axel sorry but you had a point at #368?

Lets go through what happened, I pointed you to direct eye witness testimony that shows Argentina's claim to have expelled the settlers in 1833 was bogus, you then went and asked an Argentine politician and he said it was true so you accepted it. You did no personal research or verification, you didn't even bother to check what I'd said.

Is that about it?

Bugger me sideways this has got to be a new record for thread length? And no sign of Jorge Rios perhaps my dirt mail I sent to his faculty has caused him to lie low for the now.

Picking up on what Justin has said about expelled Argentines, does Argentina have any evidence that such a thing happened? Or is this another myth that has become accepted fact in the tragic ongoing difficulties that Argentina has with facts?

Trouble is that Argentina has no evidence other than this myth which over time has become accreted fact, the British evidence finds itself in the journal of Charles Darwin the manifest of the Argentine ship “Sarandí” which listed only military personal and families aboard, and various diaries of Argentine settlers on the islands. Even your own historians do not agree with such a fictitious and damaging and downright lie.

Provide some proper evidence to the contrary other than because a politician said so? Come on dear fellow you are geography professor surely you search for evidence to disprove your own arguments first?

I suspect tha Argentino is Jorgy boy in a new guise :-)

(397) Hoyt
You are becoming as paranoid as me in here :-)
Nuts everywhere! And Argentino is persistent!

Tell me....... about this booooooring historical facts that you like so much:

Everybody on your side, when mentioning Charles Darwin diaries nearly go down to their knees as if God had spoken to them.
Wasn’t Dr. Darwin British?
On an official British mission?
On board a Royal Navy Ship?
Was Dr. Darwin not a “man of his age”; a convinced colonialist?
Was he not what we, today, would call a “white supremacist or in short a “racist”?
Hardly an “independent, impartial” witness of a British military action against a “Lesser Race and Nation”; don’t you think?

Darwin was a man of great foresight ....... in fact bloody amazing foresight to have included an entry in his diary just to refute an Argentine argument 177 years in the future :-)

And you obviously haven't read his diary because he expressed some 'surprise' at the military action !

No, I haven't........
But I know a lot about British “surprise”.
It's better for the eye not to see what the hand is doing.......
100% Orwellian...
By the way, did you know that George Orwell's real name was Blair?

No surprises there.........

Ah there we have it, Think rejects a British eye witness account from 177 years ago, because it is British and no other reason.

But he isn't racist.

And the claim that Darwin was so prescient he wrote his account to refute an Argentine claim 177 years in the future.

Mmmm,

What about the account of Thomas Helsby a naturalised Argentine citizen, who subsequently emigrated to Patagonia?

The Daily Show
Conversation About Race

http://bicsplace.blogspot.com/2010/07/beard-brothers.html

Right Doesn't Think. Darwin invented the Gauchos he saw on the Falklands for colonialist imperialist propaganda purposes.

the argentinians are finished, long live the falklands

Well Think dear fellow The fact is Darwin's diaries also correspond with the maifests from the United Provinces Ship “Sarandí” corroborating historical evidence from two different sources eventhe diaries of Thomas Helsby refute such an assertion, what are you implying that Charles Darwin looked into a crystal ball and saw that Argentina would use this argument? And thus concoted a grand conspiracy to rob the Argentine people of their beloved Islands!

Rather than imply a conspiracy theory or bias try to to refute the allegation with histroical evidence of your own? Or do you not have any, the fact remains the Darwin Diaries are an unfortunate shot across of the bows of the evil-Imperialist-British-cruelly-expelled-simple -Argentine-residents school of thought, which is sorerly tedious.

As for racism I wonder if Think took the time to notice that if Darwin was such a beleiver in the superiority of the white race then why would Darwin have had an issue with the 90% white germanic population? eeerm do I see thinks inherent bias beginning to blind his judgment and loose relationship with fact showing again?

JUSTIN KUNTZ:
You still didn't read not even one line of my survey, so, you can't say a word about it, beside our chancery is not the only source that i have, i have also the opinions of diferent expert i international right, i told them about all your arguments, and now, i am searching another expert, but from a private university, because i need to hear diferent opinions, the line of my survey is not anti british, i just try to stablish the rights of both nations on the malvinas, dont prejudge like many of your moron compatriots do, in spite that we desagree normally, you are not idiot, yuo are smart, that's why i value your opinion.

Now be fair Rhaurie, Think has never attempted to apply any historical argument in these pages ... he either doesn't know it, which would be strange, or doesn't believe it !

:-)

Thanks Hoyt...

As the beloved H.C. Andersen once wrote:
“One little feather can easily grow into five Hens” (in here :-)

I do not need to imply “things”.
I show you “things” as many of you are not trained to see them:
As they are perceived by the other side.

BTW.... after Cameron’s yesterdays visit to the “Jewel of the Empire”:
Are you anytime soon returning the Koh I Noor?........
Or the Parthenon Friezes?.........
Or the Roseta Stone?..........
Or... Or... Or... Or... Or... Or...

Oh Think, that's too easy .... No! We will not give back the diamond because it was stolen fair and square, we will not give back the stones because we bribed and bought them fair and square, no roeseta stones either .... and if we will not return, then we certainly will not give what was never the others anyway :-)

More “Square” than “fair” answer but at least sincere.....
For your info.....
An incredible lot of museum collection material (not only British) is returning to their right owners without very much fuzz about it.
Of course the 3 mentioned pieces at (409) will be the last to return..... but they will.........

Axel wrong, I did, I just wan't impressed.

You simply asked an ARGENTINE politician and immediately believed what they had to say uncritically, anyhing from a different source has to have at least 10 others backing it up.

As usual THINK takes things off at a tangent, simple question, given that the documentary evidence contradicts Argentina's claim why do you still cling to what is a lie? Why every time an awkward question is posed do you try and take things off at a tangent?

Think I didn't ask for a running commentary of a diamond I asked if you could provide any evidence that contradicts Darwins diaries other than some overly bias assertion that bias that because of his nationality he must not be telling the truth.

Now can you provide evidence that 1: What Darwin said isn't true, 2. That Argentine settlers/Squatters where expelled, come on dear fellow a simple enough task.

Tell you what I will set the same task to my dog right now and see who can come up with an answer closest to the question asked?

My money's on the Dog.

My money on that doggy too......

The dog for President :-)

Hear... Hear...

well i bet you argentinians are happy that your turncoat friends the conservatives, have today signed the death knell for the royal navy, it looks like you will be getting the falklands back quicker than you think,

And they are trying to incorporate the Royal Marines into the Army!!!
Shame on them!!!

“interpretation of any agreement is essential to consider the subsequent conduct of the parties”

Yes, exactly Argentino. After Argentina ratified the Convention of Settlement in 1850, where ALL differences between Argentina and Britain were settled Argentina stopped messages to congress, and annual protests to UK. Something which had happened every year from 1833 to that date. That can only mean one thing: Argentina accepted the Falklands were British in 1850.

418 Think: Well to be honest the Marines are practically a Army unit now days anyway, just more more training.

Much like the US Marines.

They spend more time on land than at sea.

Ohhhh Mr. Zethe......
You posess sooo much information.....
but sooo little insight....

yes i know you guys think i have flipped, but sometimes you must ask before its rammed, sadly we need argentines help, we need you to [at last]
to go and get the Falklands, there is no excuse now, its practically undefended, you need to help us, go and take the island back NOW you will never get a better chance, and in return you will save the royal navy, if you just sit there and brag and brag, you will lose your chance forever,, [you want the Falklands] [we want our navy] you go get the Falklands, and we get our navy back, go argies go, go go

421 Think (#):

Don't get me wrong. I don't wish for them to be part of the army, such establisments should be kept as they are.

And i don't think it will happen, the MOD is very Navy friendly. I'm just pointing out the fact that currently, they serve the same purpose as regular army members.

who cares now, think tank, think possitive, think the falklands,think the imposible, think of how great you could be, think for the sake of thinking, think now, and act later, think later [and act now]

JUSTIN KUNTZ.
What part dont you understand, that i will search others experts in international right, but from private universitys, i only had conversations with two, one is from our chancery, and the other one, is from one of our public universitys U.B.A (university from buenos aires), wich is the most prestigious university from argentina, but now i will search diferent experts from our private universitys, i hope i can find unless two or three more, because i need to add diferent opinions to my survey, i am not an expert in international right, i only hear diferent points of view, and after i get my conclutions, you can agree or not with my opinions, no one is the owner of the truth, beside i have also the words of many british experts that i could find in the rich library from our chancery, it's a post grade library, it's very prestigious, and regarding the malvinas dispute, you can find planty of bibliographys that support both perspectives, you wont find only evidences that support the argentine cause, like some of your ignorant compatriots say, and for the last time, why dont you wait to read my survey, and after get your conclutions, otherwise, you are just prejudging, i hope i can publish it for the end of this year, there is a lot to survey yet and translate.

yes but to late, to late, we need Argentina to act now, then we can reverse these idiot decision, save our navy, save our soles, [thinks ok] he is worried he is scared, they all are, they know the grim reapers coming, that’s why they are all not shouting from the roof tops, they know something’s in the wind [and its not shit]
think knows he is clever man, he remembers JOHN KNOT 1981]
yes we remember john knot 1981, [[what did he announce, what did he do,, the brits were in trouble, the navy was being sold of, we needed help.
and Argentina saved us, they attack the Falklands, what about today, [July 30th 2010] British can no longer defend themselves, the navy is being cut, carriers sold of, [does anyone notice anything similar ???
think later, act now

wate i think iv missed something, im a bit behind, can someone explain 2 me what is happening to our navey, and why we need argies help??? and who is 2 blame for what ever has happend? been away a while so i have no idea

425 axel arg:

Your survey is irrelevant, as is your nations claims. The claims are from the 1800's. This is 2010. Self Determination > everything.

juaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

Rhauri, Did you really send an e-mail to my university?

This is weird, I went to the university today to sign some things and they didn't tell me anything about it. Could they have forgotten it?
Just try again. LOL

Hoytred, I've been studying and disscussing other topics in other forums, that's why I heven't been here. I don't need to change my nickname, why would have do it?

Sergio Vega, no hables boludeces!!! No sé que estupideces te metió pinocho en la cabeza, pero lo que contás de 1978 está lejos de ser verdad, “resistir a como de lugar” era la instrucción del pinocho, no estaban en mejores condiciones para nada.

Tampoco hables por todos los habitantes de Pta Arenas y mucho menos por todo el pueblo chileno. Yo soy habitante de la Patagonia argentina que NÚNCA fue chilena, a noser que consideres chilenos a los mapuches que llegaron a este lado matando a los Tehuelches que eran los verdaderos dueños de estas tierras, y tengo a mi madre que es chilena, nacida en Chiloé, que vivió en Pto Natales, tengo familia allí y en Pta Arenas. Qué unos pocos recalcitrantes nacionalistas piensen como vos, no quiere decír que todos tus conciudadanos y compatriotas piensen igual.

Mucha gente joven chilena dejó el enfermizo nacionalismo atrás, cada vez más chilenos apoyan la causa Malvinas, y mal que te pese los tiempos cambian, los gobiernos cambian también, la derecha retrógrada chilena se moderniza lentamente. ¿Te hubieses imaginado 20 años atrás a un derechista como Piñera legislando uniones homosexuales? Claro que no, lo siento mucho, pero los tiempos del pinocho CTM no vuelven más, por más manotazo de ahogado que de la fascista iglesia católica.

Seguramente perdiste negocios con las islas y por eso estás enojado, pero sabés que pasa, el gobierno chileno tiene en claro que gana economicamente y politicamente mucho más con Argetina que con 3000 isleños con el cerebro lavado.

Saludos

jorge!

You should visit the islands, they are very nice i hear. Perhaps you could recite our national amthum

“ ... Hoytred, I've been studying and disscussing other topics in other forums, that's why I heven't been here. I don't need to change my nickname, why would have do it?....”

You must have a twin .. or a clone ...... Bhudda help us!

Well, Jorge, you have shown your quality as a person, with insults just because I think different to you. Smart people used to tuse arguments and no bad words. The Pinochet issue is not the issue for this forum, but another. Here the matter is the right of the inhabitants of the Falklands Island to choose what ever they want to do with their country, even to ask to their mother country that help them with the defence and foreinge relations.
Related to Patagonia, please, read all the history books and then lay as well as the lefty reds knows to do,ever.
You know that we can be confident on your authorities because the history have shown that ever they no respect their word. Period.
The regular Argentine is no problem at all, they are good people, even thinking different to us over the borders along our independent country lives (of course you are wrong or have been bad infromed).
The youngest chilean are the most concerned with our government bad behaviour over the this bilateral dispute, where Chile have no reason to give support to both of you. We must be neutral as country.
The truth is we were very bad equiped to fight a war, but we had the biggest balls to face you just with a “corvo” and “chupilca del diablo” and you weren´t brave enough to do what you wanted to do with a country 1/3 in large and population, but 100% bigger in balls.
Why too much support to the Tehuelches if you killed them to robing them the lands later?
The tolerance is not a gift on you, guy, as I can see, isn't it?
Well, as I said before, the lefty reds lye, lye , lye .....always something left...!!!

“los Tehuelches que eran los verdaderos dueños de estas tierras”

Exactly Jorgebobo. Proving, by your own admission, that you Argies are not the real owners of that territory. You are implanted colonialists! Go back to Spain Jorgebobo!

(432) Mr. Sergio Vega

Your mentality is exactly what the Settlers in Malvinas rightly abhor about the old “military ruled” South America.....

You abuse words like “human rights”, “respect”, “neutrality”, “good people”, “tolerance” but at the same time you openly declare that is ok to kill people that disagree with your political views!

What would happen with the 3000 Islanders if they decided to become a Socialist country and invite Cuba or China for their defense?

I (and they) know the answer if a person like you was in charge!

Think, the islanders are free to choose waht kind of government they want. If they decided for a comunist leader, well some day they will learn how much bad it can be...!!! We, the Chilean knows about, after 3 years of destruction of our society, economy and families between 70-73. Now, after 20 years of bad lefty goverments we lost the opportunity to get the little club of developed countries where we were going to.
Other examples of good red government we have in Vietnam, Cuba, North Korea. Others that learnt about the comunism benefits are Russia, Poland and, in general, the East Europe countries.
But, I insist, don´t change the issue here. It´s about the islanders right to the self determination, nothing more nothing less. By teh wat, the Patagonia first owners, the Tehuelches, can´t had their right to self determination because Argentina killed them without a question and now you are the bigest defender of their rights...!!! Don´t make me laugh..
And as last I´ll never would pretend take the control of a neighbor country like some are trying...

(435) Sergio Vega
And you keep on the stupid Pinochetist line:
They are all communists!!!!
I have defined myself as a Socialist many times, not a communist... Do you care? ...... No.... Do you listen?.. No.... You keep mentioning Communist dictatorships....
I am absolutely in-line with Social Democratic countries like Sweden, Norway, Denmark or Finland .... The top of the world.... The cream de la cream.....
What's wrong with those Countries ... Let me hear?

its ok guys the danger has passed, they had there chance, to late now, [i] picked this up on a military site, its an article about using some of our overseas territories for land based ballistic/cruse missiles defence in reinforced bunkers this was the gist of it below,[ the possibility of the Falklands moving its defence into land-based missiles, it got an interesting response! Here's my 'director's cut' of how the UK's military posture could develop. (I think of it as cheap, effective and common sense.) The UK has 14 overseas territories, in the North and South Atlantic, Pacific, I […] the Falklands among other being used as a super base for British military reach of power, saying the remoteness will deter, and safeguard the islands, it will be capable of destroy our enemy’s from say Argentina, all the way to china or Russia, from the Falklands, great Britain intends to stay, an reinforce the islands into a super base, [so argies] welcome to the future British commitment to the Falklands

J. A. ROBERT. ZETHE.
Haughty jason said to jorge, you argies are not the real owners of that territory, you are implanted colonialist, go back to spain jorge bobo.
Firstly, if we were born in argentina, we are as owners of this territory as the tehuelches, and as all the rest of the pueblos originarios, there is a huge debt with those people yet, in my case, i am not implanted colonialist, we are the third generation of argentines in my family, i dont know about jorge, but i have nothing to do in spain.
If you want to make any relation betwen this issue, and the malvinas dispute, have in mind jason that our claim is as legitimate as the islanders's, most them have unless 5 generations living in malvinas, and like it or not we also have right to claim for what we consider as part of our territory, if you, your compatriots, and all the falkland islanders dont want to accept it, it's just one more show of the idiot intransigence that exists betwen both, in this way we wont never find any fair solution for both sides.
ZETHE: I respect your point of view, every opinion are respectable, but i prefer to take the words of diferent experts in international right, (argentine and british), those people knows much more than you and i.
Beside you can't say if my survey is irrelevant because you still didn't read it, you are actually prejudging like some of your moron compatriots do, anyway you are not moron, it's just that we dont agree eachother normally.

“ ... and like it or not we also have right to claim for what we consider as part of our territory.... ”

Ah, the crux of the matter! We don't believe you have such right, either historically (which may no longer be relevant in any case) or legally ( which is highly relevant). Looking forward to that survey :-)

Axel,

Simple question

Do you believe the British expelled Vernet's settlement in 1833 as claimed by Modern Argentina?

Before you answer.

Consider Charles Darwin's diary, Fitzroys diary who document meeting with members of the supposedly expelled settlement in 1833 and again in 1834.

The diary of Thomas Helsby, a settler brought by Vernet to the islands who documents the entire period.

The log and testimony of the Commander of the ARA Sarandi.

So do you?

Axel, you do a pretty fine line in “haughty” yourself. I would avoid the ad hominem if I were you.

How many people born in the Falkland Islands consider themselves to be Argentine? If your logic of “if we were born in argentina, we are as owners of this territory” applies to the Falklands then surely the Falklands belong to the Falkland Islanders? Is that not right?

Why is it that you owe nothing more than debt to the native South Americans yet you expect the Falkland Islanders to owe you THEIR WHOLE COUNTRY based on your ridiculous and unsustainable 1940s claim? Is that just and fair? I don't think so...

Jorge quite often refers to the Falkland Islanders as “implanted”. Most Falkland Islanders are now in their 7th generation, with even the 8th and 9th generations now being born. I think that beats your 3 generations hands down. Most immigration into Argentina occurred in the 1940s, so correct me if I am wrong, but most Argentines are 3rd generation, no? By Jorge's standards, YOU Argies are much more “implanted” than the Falklanders, by nearly three times!

You might “consider” the Falklands your territory, but how does that alone give you any rights? The King of Spain “considers” himself to be the King of Jerusalem, but he obviously does not rule Jerusalem, does he? And just because right thinking people, backed by facts, don't accept what you “consider” to be a rightful claim, they are intransigent. What cheek Axel! You need to back up your ridiculous claim with facts, which I afraid, you, your countrymen and your government have patently failed to do.

A fair solution for both sides? Are you joking? Argentina needs to be compensated for what exactly? You have lost nothing, so you are owed NOTHING!

As for your “survey”, it only includes Argentines. Perhaps, for balance, you might approach a few British academics?

besides your experts would be bias towards argentina.

Now, now Briton - not all Argentine 'experts' are biased -

Prof. Carlos Escudé, Ph.D.
Argentine National Council of Scientific Research (CONICET)
Uiversidad Torcuato Di Tella, Buenos Aires -

“It is sufficient to talk to any Buenos Aires cabdriver to understand
that the Argentine people know that the Falkland Islands will not be
“recovered” by Argentina. The only locals who appear not to
understand this basic fact of life are a group of war veterans, a small
bunch of nationalist fundamentalists, and practically the entire lot of
Argentine politicians.”

:-)

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Future_of_the_Falkland_Islands_and_Its_People

So more people have had the unfortunate experience of talking with Jorge Rios that most common of all South American Parrots?

I guess the dog wins the bet then Think?

As the Defendant offers no compelling evidence? Darwin's testimony stands No settlers were expelled, Argentine government has been maliciously and knowingly using a complete fabrication to win an argument or at least to give some credibility to their faltering arguments.l

case dismissed! Next!

J. A. ROBERT. HOYTRED. JUSTIN.
JASON: Your analysis are allways so ignorant and pathetic, firstly, i have allways recognized and respected that the islanders must claim for their right to self determination, their opinion is absolutly relevant, but at the same time, they must understand that we have right too to claim for our territorail integrity, your problem, is that you and your compatriots think that our claim is a joke, you can accept it or not, that's your problem, in my case, i prefer to take the words of many british experts in international who i add for my survey, who dont think like you, those people knows much more than you and i, meantime, keep on parroting all those moron assertion that you have in your ridiculous and unsustainable mind, that wont impide that maybe some day we can find a fair solution for both sides.
Regarding the pueblos originarios, we still have a great debt with them, their lands were appropiated, and they are vitims of abuses of many of those fucking soya producers, who remove indigenous populations from their lands to plant soya.
HOYTRED: I agree on what escude says, but the malvinas is a fair cause, and we must keep on claiming for our islands, because in spite of the idiot intransigence that exists now betwen the three parts of the conflict, no body knows what could happen in the future.
JUSTIN: When you read my survey, you will have all the answers to your questions, it's very long to writte it here, and i have no time, i remind you that the line of my survey is not anti british, i just want to establish the rights of both nations on the malvinas-falklands.

Axel

Do you believe the British expelled Vernet's settlement in 1833 as claimed by Modern Argentina?

It has a simple yes/no answer. What is telling is the lengths that people go to avoiding awkward questions.

“... but at the same time, they must understand that we have right too to claim for our territorail integrity....”

They do not because you have NO territorial integrity over the Falkland Islands.

“ ... you and your compatriots think that our claim is a joke,...”

It is!

“ ... we must keep on claiming for our islands...”

You have no claim and they are not, and never have been, your islands.

Nora Femenia, Ph.D.The Falklands-Malvinas Forum
(www.falklands-malvinas.com
“ ... Argentine members, who share the same proposition, repeated over and over again: ‘TheIslas Malvinas son argentinas,’ and they belong to Argentina because … and here comes a long historic narrative of XVIII and XIXcenturies acts of possession and loss.

What is surprising is the degree in which participants use this
argument, almost as the only one offered, because it is the root
dispute argument taught in Argentine schools.

Such a degree of indoctrination is very worrisome, because even in the case of successful negotiations with the UK about the Islands future, there is no way that the national myth will become real as expected: ‘complete devolution of the Islas Malvinas to Argentina.’ Whatever could be negotiated between the two parties, it is impossible to accept that Argentina could obtain this impossible dream realized. But any diminution or restriction on the wholeness of the dream would then
become treason vis a vis the public imagination wishes.... ”

Indoctrination :-)

Axel, I see you avoided every single question I put to you. I'll try again. Perhaps you could answer them this time.

If your logic of “if we were born in argentina, we are as owners of this territory” applies to the Falklands then surely the Falklands belong to the Falkland Islanders? Is that not right?

You claim the Falklands because they were “stolen” from you, yet you stole most of what is now Argentina from the original inhabitants, so why is it that you owe nothing more than debt to the native South Americans yet you expect the Falkland Islanders to owe you THEIR WHOLE COUNTRY? Is that just?

You say there should be a fair solution for both sides? But why?Argentina needs to be compensated for what exactly, Argentina has lost nothing.

And once again, territorial integrity does not apply. That only applies to non self governing territories in the process of decolonisation. Argentina is NOT a NSGT.

What about a bit more balance in your “survey”? What do you have to say about that. Surely speaking only to Argentine academics is not balanced?

THIMC:
This “1850 Convention of Settlement” so often mentioned in here.....
A little ”detail” jumps in front of my eyes...

Is it not true that between 1845 and 1849 Britain and France, the two greatest superpowers of the world at the time, blockaded, attacked and tried to topple the Argentinean government and invaded Uruguay?

At least that is what your own “Westminster Review” says:
“For nearly four years we kept a squadron there, seldom consisting of less than a dozen ships, to cooperate with the similar force mantained by the French; yet, after all our trouble and lavish expenditure, we concluded a treaty in 1849, which was only a diplomatic avowal of the failure of our intervention.” Westmister review, page 165

I knew a Yank once.... A smoker.... He proudly used an old engraved Zippo from Vietnam ....The inscription was:
“Let US win your hearts and minds or we’ll burn your damn huts down.”

In short, this “Convention of Settlement” was obviously forced on Argentina, signed under military coercion and that renders it invalid Yesterday, Today or Tomorrow.

I actually think that the Convention of Settlement is irrelevant .. after all, to my mind, the matter of the Falkland Islands was settled in 1833 although I could go with 1771 and that 1833 was merely reinforcement :-)

I totally agree about the irrelevance of that “Convention of Settlement”
The Malvinas Issue is not “Settled” whatsoever :-)

How strange .... it is for us :-)

You wish!

I know :-)

There are no talks because we have no doubts ..... remember!

Are you talking to me? Are you talking to me?

Bugger all else to do :-)

Coercion?

Ah, right tacit admission you gave up rights in that treaty but you were coerced? Such a banal argument you had to spread it over multiple threads?

Whatever happened to the Great Argentine Victory that lead to the Convention?

J. A.ROBERT. JUSTIN KUNTZ. HOYTRED.
JASON: As usuall you understand just what you want, firstly, i agree absolutly that all the lands, or unless some them, that were stole to the indigenous people, must be restored to them, beside the abuses against them still continue, i allready explained you how.
Regarding the rights of the islanders, i allready told you what i think about it.
On the other hand, about my survey, you still didn't read not even one line of it, beside it seems that you dont understand that i have also the words of many british experts in international right, who dont coincid with yur ignorant assertions, your problem is that you think that my contry never lost anything, because the islands were never argentine territory, twisting the history is a good strategy that you use all the time to justify your motherland, meantime i prefer to take the words of those british experts who know much more than you and i.
JUSTIN: I hold that the u.k. usurped the islands in 1833, i have planty of reasons to think tha, whe you read my survey, you will know why i hold this, it's very long to explain it now.
HOYTRED: I agree on some of te assertions of nora feminia, anyway i dont her, i think that we wont never recover the malvinas, but i allready explained you why we must continue with our claim.
Beside every opinion are respectable, i am not forced to think like nora feminia or whoever, i respect your posture, you think that the malvinas were never argentine, i respect it, but what is relevant for me is the academic knowleage of those experts from your contry.