MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina shuts down Internet service provided by the Clarin media group
Argentina’s government shut down the Internet service provided by Grupo Clarín SA Fibertel unit, saying the company’s merger with Cablevision SA was illegal. The move is the latest in a fight between the media group Clarin and President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMrs. Kirchner (and her husband and former president Nestor Kirchner) argue that Argentina’s biggest media company is biased in its coverage of the government.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0CK says: So that's closed, Che clowns can't handle the truth, thus I provide them with the “real” news. VIVA TOTALITARIANISMOOO...upps..“ARGENTINAAAA with 11 % ”real” growth...LAUGH!!!
Trying to control the media .... very democratic!
Aug 20th, 2010 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Setting free terrorist for British Petroleum juicy deals .... very democratic!
Aug 20th, 2010 - 03:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/7954493/Lockerbie-bomber-expected-to-live-for-two-more-years-Libyan-official-says.html
The split is right information is very important to be handle by few multimedia groups in democracy.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0A bad president (like Bush or Menen) can last 4/8 years at worst but a media dictatorship can last forever.
For that reason I only see and trust independent American media like Fox and Bloomberg, etc.
They are always right and the information is well accurate I can’t ever be wrong by consuming this type of independent media. Can I?
US printing money like Zimbabwe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
America collapses
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
America will not pay back its debts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
America UK total decline Jim Rogers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
US will end like Mexico 1992
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14
I believe in a free media ... and hope for an intelligent one. A range of views is preferable to too few. Which is why it is good (probably) that the USA has right wing opinions like Fox and the UK has left wing opinions like ... the Guardian.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Generally I find it preferable that the main media are opposed in principle to whichever party is in power as it reminds them not to get too cocky!
Marco is not worth an answer. To NicebutDIM I should point out that the USA is so important economically that if it fails, we'll all go down with it. I wish it were otherwise!
THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
Aug 20th, 2010 - 07:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.
Sadly, the usual suspects leap to the fore to defend the Kirschners and the Peronist party. Shutting down media outlets because they criticse the Government is what 3rd world dictatorships do, this shouldn't happen in a democracy. You're sleep walking back into dictatorship.
@Hoytred
Aug 20th, 2010 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t see the apocalypses if US collapses of course will be consequences but the world goes on as always have done. And after all the world is lets say falling down in slow motion thank to US.
Anyway US is in continue falling last data showed that unemployment rose sharply as expected.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/08/20/us-jobless-benefits-jump-to-highest-since-november-markets-tumble
Unemployment in US had to be close to 17% or more data reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on the news is always partial as they don’t show the whole picture.
They only shows “official unemployment rate 1” and to get the whole picture you have to know what is The U-6 (real total Unemployment figure).
U-6 contains U-1 plus “Marginally Attached Workers” unemployment, discouraged workers that after been looking for long period of time for a job give up turning into a chronic unemployed, people not been looking for a job in last 2 weeks for any reason (Illness, etc).
In short US is in worst shape than the media shows and if in 2011 they don’t make pick up the economy the situation will end in a depression 1930 style. Why 2011? Because its when all stimulus packages ends and reality will hit sharply.
Similar scenario you can expect for UK.
So be prepare for what is going to come and get rid of any US dollar or pound while you can.
@JustinKuntz
I’m not communist, not unionist either, certainly not jew and I’m not even catholic.
Me Quite safe and you?
The split of Fibertel/Cable vision has noting to do with the paper Clarin to be banned to say what they want to say else is a matter to in force the anti-monopoly laws and the new law of media. Voted in congress.
You cannot setup a newspaper of magazine without their intervention as they have the monopoly of the paper and distribution.
sorry but its not good in a democracy we choose what we want not clarin or any other group.
You have to try that may be when you loose your colony mentality who knows?
I wonder when they will shut down Clarin Group completely? This is a way to drive it into bankruptcy then have one of their cronies buy it and take it over. I heard the owner of Clarin is living outside of the county now.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0So shutting down a business is increasing competition from what I remember there are only 2 cable companies in BA anyway now there is only 1? You are very very dumb guy.
This is the way the CFK thugs work, they did the same thing with the telephone, electricity, water, gas/oil distribution, gas stations, airlines, gosh there are so many I don't think they will all fit here. Thugs!
Your allegiance has been bought and paid with stolen funds but what will happen when it runs out? Then end of your 10 year “up” cycle is almost here.
The US generates more wealth than any other nation in the world. It is capable of running huge deficits with China, Japan, Mexico, Canada and many other countries and yet it still growing.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0The United States has it all: population growth, economic diversity, rich in natural resources, highly educated populations, huge cientific infraestructure and comunity, high technology oriented industries, the best universities in the world, an education systems that remains one of the best in the world, economic freedoms, regulatory infraestructure for competitiveness, independent institutions, a solid, estable democracy and the best army in the world capable of projecting its power any where in the planet.
No, I don´t think it is going down anytime soon.
What has this story got to do with the USA or the UK?
Aug 20th, 2010 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentines are happy for their government to shut down news organisations that are critical of their government then let them live with it. It's their thin end of the wedge not ours.
@fredbdc
Aug 20th, 2010 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why a law is good in USA and its not good in Argentina for you mate?
Standard oil, Microsoft, ect have being split the same way.
The govt. will not close the company else the Clarin Group would have to roll back the acquisition or sale the company. Also Telcos had being forgiven to gain dominants position in the market.
We don’t like abusive big corps as you like in US make your research and you will see how CATV in Argentina has the highest penetration in the world. And we want to stay like this paying less and with more competition. The only one I know buy and closing companies around here is Clarin Group.
Telcos like Telefonica are not allowed to enter into catv or pay tv so why we have to allow Clarin to be the monopoly of cable tv and internet?
Better of you can start right here http://www.budde.com.au/Research/Argentina-Telecoms-Mobile-Broadband-and-Forecasts.html
@JoseAngeldeMonterrey
“No, I don´t think it is going down anytime soon.”
Did you see Iceland, Greece, Portugal or Spain? Or are you seeing UK or Italy next? I do.
Good speech and desire but economists, macroeconomics numbers, and investors think otherwise.
Even for US the huge debt is astronomical and if they don’t stop borrowing all what you say will be gone.
But don’t trust me make you own research you can start here buy paying attention to the red numbers and especially to the “US unfounded Liabilities” Item 110 trillion dollars and US National debt 13,34 trillion dollars and growing faster.
Now tell me please will you put your money into “United States Treasury securities” and US’ FIAT money to save US?
I don’t so Greece or Iceland is just around the corner.
China just has started to get away of US assets and Dollar and China is the biggest lender of US debt.
Who is going to buy all this debt to sustain US economy? No idea yet.
Life is like this sometimes we don’t get what we want but yes what we deserve.
: )
Clarin is dying as a monopoly and too many argentines are glad!!!
Aug 20th, 2010 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too much crap from them! I respect some media that always criticize the government like La Nación, although I don't agree with them, but they are honest, Clarin isn't!!!
Considering the US has individual companies that make more $ per year and have more savings than Argentina I wouldn't really concern yourself with our imminent demise.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I highly doubt the Chinese would do anything to interrupt their trade with us. They need us more than we need them. China has lot of internal strife at the moment and I don't see it dying down anytime soon.
Plus the election in Nov will get the Marxist/Socialist scum out of office so we can get back on track. Too bad that is everyone in Argentina.
“It is capable of running huge deficits with China, Japan, Mexico, Canada and many other countries and yet it still growing.”
Aug 20th, 2010 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, it is not. Since the 90s, US's growth figures rarely surpasses the 3.5% figure. And most growth in the US is linked to financial capital and speculation. Since the latter decade it has passed through a process of “financeirização” (I don't really know the English name).
And no, the US cannot keep having its current deficits impunely. This is shown by US desperation to get China to overvalue its currency. As a result of its many deficits - fiscal deficit, trade deficit - the US has become a highly, even hugely, indebted country. That makes its economy vulnerable to external factors. If one of its major lenders refuse to keep lending it money, or even if it delays lending, collapse would likely ensue in the US for it would not be able to meet all its output necessities. And remember who is US's greatest lender: the trustuworthy and friendly China.
Britain must surely be aware that the economic drain of maintaining this distant colony will not be offset by revenue from oil if the vocal support for Argentina’s claim throughout the region turns to active support in the form of a trade embargo. Latin America has emerged from centuries of European and North American domination and is determined to assert its rights accordingly.
Aug 20th, 2010 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands constitute one of the last remnants of British colonialism, part of a history of economic piracy stained with the blood of millions who suffered as a consequence. The sooner this history is brought to a close the better.
Malvinas Argentinas
JUSTIN KUNTZ:
Aug 20th, 2010 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why dont you inform your self correctly before criticicing, it's very easy to criticise, when you know just one side of the reality as usuall, you parrot all what ignorant people who hates the kirchner say all the time.
Firstly, argentina is the country of the monopoliums, there is no free competence here, clarin is one of the owners of argentina, it had the pension sistem, the soccer rights , it has also interests in the agrarian sector, and it has strong bussiness with cable television, it has 250 liceces in the whole country, tyhe 83% of our media, is in the hand of just 4 enterprises.
So, why can't we have free competence like in europe or usa, now you argue the imbecill idea that we are going to a dictatorship, you have no ide about what true dictatorship is.
“Britain must surely be aware that the economic drain of maintaining this distant colony ”
Aug 21st, 2010 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0We've been aware of it for decades, and we are happy to pay for it, oil or no oil.
Forgetit87
Aug 21st, 2010 - 03:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0To be sure, ownership of US treasury securities does not mean lending money to the US. The US does not guarantee treasury notes with gold, territories or any other kind of assets, only US Dollars or with…more treasury securities. A security is not a debt. If my company issues securities and you buy one, you are NOT lending me money, you are BETTING your money on my company’s long term success. If my company goes down, the securities you hold will become valueless papers, trash.
China is not the largest holder of US Securities in the world, that’s a myth. The largest holder of US securities are the American themselves, through its internal government institutions and its banking, insurance, investment communities, pension funds, trust funds and individual Americans, they are all the largest holders of US treasury securities. About 27% is owned by foreign investors, foreign private banks, and central banks from many countries. China is only one in many countries who hold US securities, Japan holds the same amount of US securities as China, a minor difference, but Mexico, Brazil, Canada and many other nations buy US securities everyday.
You can see for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Estimated_ownership_of_US_Treasury_securities_by_category_0608.jpg
Some people jack off too much thinking that China “lends” their hard earned US dollars back to the US government just because China is so generous. Yeah right, like China is famous for being such a generous, friendly nation, specially to the US, specially when the US is defending Taiwan patrolling with nuclear submarines the straits right in Chinese sovereign waters.
For those who believe that, I suggest they get a reality check: the US does not need China to buy US treasury notes, they have Japan, India, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, Mexico, Chile and a whole array of nations, allies and enemies the same, which together eclipse whatever amount of US treasuries china holds. It is China
If this happens, do not expect to hear any more droll messages from me, as my access to the Internet will be closed.
Aug 21st, 2010 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clarin — “illegally” absorbed a Fibertel company through its Cablevision subsidiary in January 2009.
Aug 21st, 2010 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0any other question ?
some people will back anyone to suit their needs.
A little like our friend Hon. darwin lewis clifton.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
and the pirats call this man honourable and OBE, need I say more ?
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
In 2006 he was elected Speaker of the Falkland Islands Legislative Council.
@JoseAngeldeMonterrey
Aug 21st, 2010 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong treasuries when referring to a govt. always means debt and lending instruments.
You have T-Notes, T-Bills and T-Bonds and TIPS. And when you buy from first issue you get a discount on the original value printed (Nominal value) lets say you buy UDS1000 T-Bond at USD 930 value and you will receive interest depending the regulatory issuing and maturity. At the end the holder cans cash back the nominal amount plus interest or what normally is done you cash interest and buy new Bonds.
So this, with the time grow and grow to an unsustainable size like US or UK and you have to keep borrowing to keep paying what is called the service of the debt. Interest, principal, etc.
When your debt under the eyes of investors turn risky you have to pay more to get fresh capital to finance govt. deficits, etc. But this is not the whole picture, this affects too companies that found more difficult to rise capital in the international market (Like Multinational, etc) so in short affects the whole economy.
And if lenders desired to stop lending to you, your economy collapses like Iceland, Argentina, Greece or whatever country even US or UK. Both have defaulted several times in history before like Argentina or Iceland.
Huge debt huge devastating consequences you figure out how that will be you can start with 1930 to have an idea.
On the other hand, US is on the hands of China, Russia, Brasil, Middle East countries as major lenders.
If they drop their holdings US will suffer devaluation, debt problem, etc.
So you need China, Russia and Brasil more than your mother else collapse is 100% guarantee.
More of these countries right now are slowly buying other currencies and treasuries to others countries to minimize the risk of US collapse.
You can find here what China for example is actually doing to get rid of the dollar
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/summers061709.html
Axel,
Aug 21st, 2010 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0How many presidential decrees has Christina issued? Just out of curiousity.
You say Clarin has a monopoly, then go on to say 4 separate companies control 83% of Argentine media; do you actually know what monopoly means?
Christina was happy to received support from Clarin, now they're critical of her and her policies all of a sudden the Government is acting to slap them down.
In a healthy democracy you need a media that is independent of Government fiat, that is able to criticise freely and openly. Its a bulwark against oppressive government. What you don't need is critical media shut down or restricted.
I personally despise Rupert Murdoch but you can bet your bottom dollar that no British Government would even think of shuting down one of his media outlets for being critical.
So if you're happy that Christina is taking action to shut down a hostile media outlet, then clearly you've drank the Kool Aid. Sleepwalk into dictatorship if you want to.
Nicodin,
Aug 21st, 2010 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let's put it this way, if you go to the bank and get a loan for 1 million USD, you have a problem with the bank. But if you go to the bank and get a loan of 100,000 million US, the problem is for the bank!
The US themselves establish the interest rate they pay on their treasury securities, none else does, the interest rate paid by US treasury bills is...0.14, 5 year 1.5, what a great investment for the chinese people!!!!
China has been talking about diversifying their reserves but it is no more than talk. They continue to buy more and more treasury securities everyday.
The truth is the massive purchasing of US treasury securities by China is one of the largest transfers of wealth from a poor nation to a rich nation. It is a bad business for China and they will pay the consequences of such irresponsibility.
The US is one of the largest exporters in the world and remains a tough competitor in manufacturing of all kinds of technologies and can compete against China, India and many other countries, if the dollar goes down in value, American exports will be more competitive in global markets.
China exports many products to the US and to the world, laptops, electronics, etc. but under an illusory scheme since the great majority of those products come from American, European and Japanese companies with manufacturing operations in China. So people misguidedly think that an Ipod should count as a Chinese at total export value, when in reality China only added five or ten percent of its value or even less than that, and why? Because Services can be purchased from abroad too!!!
if the Ipod is made in China it is still Apple’s product and know-how, Apple gets the lion’s share in the value chain of the product, and when China produces an Ipod the value chain will remain in the US company, its like China buying a Big Mac at a US MacDonalds everytime they produce an ipod, ipad or iphone, they become clients of American companies in the value chain.
Surely South American countries must realise that Britain does not economically support the Falkland Islands.
Aug 21st, 2010 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And that an illegal trade embargo is beyond their pitiful capabilities.
And all for Argentine imperialism.............?
Britain must surely be aware that the economic drain of maintaining this distant colony will not be offset by revenue from oil if the vocal support for Argentina’s claim throughout the region turns to active support in the form of a trade embargo. Latin America has emerged from centuries of European and North American domination and is determined to assert its rights accordingly.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands constitute one of the last remnants of British colonialism, part of a history of economic piracy stained with the blood of millions who suffered as a consequence. The sooner this history is brought to a close the better.
Wake up margo, that's twice you've cut and pasted the above!
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0And you still havent answered the question, WHAT MILLIONS??
What a cupid stunt!!!
Britain must surely be aware that the economic drain of maintaining this distant colony will not be offset by revenue from oil if the vocal support for Argentina’s claim throughout the region turns to active support in the form of a trade embargo. Latin America has emerged from centuries of European and North American domination and is determined to assert its rights accordingly.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands constitute one of the last remnants of British colonialism, part of a history of economic piracy stained with the blood of millions who suffered as a consequence. The sooner this history is brought to a close the better. ;-)
South American countries must be aware that Britain does not economically maintain the Falkland Islands.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And that those same countries do not have the capability of imposing an illegal trade embargo.
An attempt could well result in the seabed being carpeted with the wrecks of South American vessels.
And Twinky has taken to copying Margo. Saruman and Wormtongue? Or just all orcs together?
Regardless, the British government continues to refuse to negotiate sovereignty of the islands, citing the democratic rights of the 3,000 British citizens who currently inhabit them. It should be noted that the same rights were not granted to the inhabitants of another distant British colony, the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, who were forcibly repatriated to Mauritius, 1,000 miles away, to make way for a US airbase in the mid 1960s. The former inhabitants of that island and their dependents won a historic High Court judgement back in 2000 declaring their expulsion illegal. In response, the then Blair government promptly rejected any possibility of them being allowed to return to the island, citing Britain’s treaty with the US handing it over for use as a military airbase. It should not be forgotten, of course, that the former inhabitants of Diego Garcia happen to have dark skin while the 3,000 residents of the Falkland Islands are white, English speaking colonists.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Notice something, having been comprehensively rebutted on every point, avoided answering awkward questions at every point and now both Think and Marco just post the same propaganda.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why doesn't the editor delete this multiple posting, they're just trying to shut down debate with spamming.
Cry baby Justin, spongebob square pants is on right now in Disney channel!
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are afraid of people to know the other side of the story or the truth itself!
Is called Freedom of speech !
Marco - Freedom of speech does not equate with the truth!
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JUSTIN KUNTZ.
Aug 22nd, 2010 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One more show of your ignorance about our reality, cristina's government is the one that less decrees had at the moment, even less than her husband, menem's government was the one that more decress had since 1983.
Regarding clarin, if you would know the history of clarin and papel prensa, i'm sure that you would change your point of view, anyway it's true that during nestor's government it had a good relation with hes gov.
But everything started to change when clarin wanted to buy telecom, nestor was not agree, because telecom was in a situation of monopolium, beside the relation got worst when cristina wanted to increase the taxes for the soya exports, and the worst of the worst, was the sanction of a new broadcast law, you should have seen what we had to see and hear, i mean the terrible lobby from clarin, to impide the sanctioning of that law, since the gov sent it to the congress, wich was approved by a landslide.
Untill last year, we have the broadcast law from the dictatorship, during menem's, he made some changes in favor of clarin group.
But the most conflictive point of this law for clarin, is tha it does not allow the monopoliums, and forces to all those enterprises that are in a situation of monopolium, to sell their enterprises, this is why since 2008, everyday we see only terrible news in the cover of clarin about the gov, and this is why i started to inform my self with alternative points of view, i inform my self with those newspapers that support the gov. and those that are against, but i discard clarin, because it's not reliable anymore.
If you like to invoke dictaorships, i really think that in the past we had miltar dictatorships, and now we have the dictatorships of the economic and mediatic concentrations, anyway the cause of fibertel is already in the justice, and it will judge if the gov. was right or not.
Strange, is´nt it, that this same government apporved the same Clarin action in early 2009?
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0They supported their campaign then but since published an unflattering story about her hairstyle.
Aug 24th, 2010 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks Axel for your informative post. Irresponsible and unruly monopolies can be as disruptive and dangerous as unruly and irresponsible governments, and there is a clear need to avoid misuse of position by both/either. The problem with the Clarin issue from an outside perspective is the way it has been handled, not only this issue but previous attempts to emasculate their huge power. I presume we would all agree that no proper democracy will flourish without freedom of speech and a free (and active) media. Controlling mis-use of monopolistic positions however should be exercised through properly constructed laws and where necessary compensation to those deprived of their businesses.
Aug 24th, 2010 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very difficult territory and interesting debate. Pity about the mindless slagging matches about the US economy etc. Just wondered though, if the US economy “collapsed” would all your exporters be so delighted....where will they sell their goods and services to....China ? I don't think so
Axel,
Aug 24th, 2010 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again you based your comments on a presumption.
Yes I knew about clarin and papel prensa, equally so did Nestor Kirschner when he was happy to have them supporting his campaign. I am sure Christina did as well.
As stillakelper notes a free and active media is a necessity in any proper democracy. cheering on the destruction of a media outlet because it has been critical of the Government is a bad sign.
I somehow think the roots of democracy are dying just a little with every move and Argentina is sleep waking into another Caudillo era. That should never be applauded, now you can either listen to my concern or ignore it.
Your choice. But quit with the presumption of ignorance, its getting boring.
Presumption of ignorance ???
Aug 24th, 2010 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Years critizicing as “experts” and they can't even spell the name of our president !!!
It is : C R I S T I N A ; not Christina !!!
It is: “ K I R C H N E R” ; not Kirschner !!!
Hmmm.... let's try.... Divid Kamerun... ohhhhh..... Me very intelligent :-)
That's their style.... At least one mistake per written word.....
Yes.... It's getting boooring.
But....Twinky.........You don't seem able to spell “criticising” (Proper English) or “criticizing” (American English).
Aug 24th, 2010 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JUSTIN KUNTZ:
Aug 24th, 2010 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree absolutly that it's necesary an independent press from the government, but the problem that we have in argentina, is that a few corporations handle the 83% of the comunications, what kind of plural information and opinions can we have with that terrible concentration?, beside i read in clarin and la nacion that the gov. wants to control the press, trough a new broadcast law, and many ignorants believe it, now my question is, aren't already the monopoliums in argentina controling most press?, isen't it an onset against freedom press, and the diferent gov., since 1983 were the guarantees of those big concentrations.
I give an example, in the usa, if you own a newspaper, you can't own a cable chanel, our new law, is very much alike in some aspects to the law from the usa, here clarin owns a newspaper, it has 250 licences of radio and television, it had before the pension sistem, and the soccer's rights, and it has also strong interests in the agrarian sector, as you can see, it's true poulp.
Now clarin uses all it's amazing power, to victimise it's self, and manipulate the public opinion, since 2008, after the agrarian conflict, i started to learn to read betwen lines, i can be wrong or not, but i dont listent already just one voice, because all of them omit information, and it's totally necesary to inform our selves with those chanels that support the gov., and those that are against it.
Think,
Aug 25th, 2010 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0My spelling isn't brilliant, on account of being dyslexic. So what.
At least I can and do address awkward questions, you never do, resorting to personal attacks and sarcasm in a rather futile attempt to disguise the fact.
So can you substantiate your claim that the BE website is a well know source validated by noted academics?
No.
Thought not.
Axel,
It is not a case of Clarin victimising itself, it is a clear case of the Government using the law to shut a critic up. If you can't see that as a very real danger to democracy, well then there is little more that I can say.
You wouldn't find me defending the British Government if it attacked the Murdoch group, although personally I despise the man.
#41 Justin K, on your answer to Axel:
Aug 25th, 2010 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Anti-Argentina Defamation League that writes around here with clear oil goals in mind, must not make us loose the search for objectivity, but is very hard to put here a critical look on Kirchners sorrounded by self-denominated enemies.
41 JustinKuntz: Few weeks back he was crying about me correcting his spelling, which i didn't. Then a few days later he corrected mine.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm also dyslexic.
Zethe, you are also wrong. Malvinas Argentinas y Sudamericanas.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Las islas Falkland son británicas, siempre han sido, siempre lo será.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0La libertad de las Falklander.
¡Abajo la agresión argentina.
¡Abajo la agresión argentina.
¡Abajo la agresión argentina.
¡Abajo la agresión argentina.
Agresion? ahhh ok, I did not know that Argentina sail across the world , 8000 miles, to claim the Island of Man.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas Argentinas y Sudamericanas.
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JUSTIN KUNTZ:
Aug 25th, 2010 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason why the gov. shut down fibertel, was because it was absorbed by cablevision (belonging to clarin group), with out any permission from the secretary of comunications, anyway the justice will judge if what the government did was right or wrong.
On the other hand, yesterday we could here by national tv adress, a long speech by the president, where her and the representants from the state in papel prensa, told the whole country about the spurious acquisition of that enterprise in 1977, beside the gov. said that it will take the case to the justice, and said too that it will take two projects to the congress, one of them is to declare the public interest of the fabrication of paper, and the other one, is to find an equal prize for all the newspares from the country, that decition will have to be under the control of the bicameral comission.
Now my question is, what kind of restriction to the press is doing the government with this decitions, if we have plural information, there will be more newspapers that will be able to criticise the government , or support it, beside clarin will keep on having it's chanels , the situation wont change so much for it.
Beside i am not defending the government, what i really defend, is the right to a plural information, i support the new broadcast law, but there are also aspects of this gov. that i dont like in absolut, if you consider that defending the rigth to plural information, means defending the gov., there is not so much i have to discuss with some one who thins like you, anywway i respect your posture, but i dont agre in absolut, on the other hand, i dont think that in the u.k., the gov. allows the concentration of monopoliums, your situation is absolutly diferent than mine.
Finally i have too a couple of phases for you.
LAS MALVINAS NO SON SOLO BRITANICAS, SON ARGENTINAS TAMBIEN, Y LAS VAMOS A SEGUIR RECLAMANDO, LES GUSTE O NO LES GUSTE.
NicoDin,
Aug 25th, 2010 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will only rest my case with one single fact: the Dollar was 1.60 vs 1 euro a year ago when those videos were released, today is at 1.25 per 1 euro.
The Dollar actually regained significant value in the last twelve months.
Leaving aside a couple of minor points like the fact that the FALKLAND ISLANDS are BRITISH SOVEREIGN TERRITORY never to fall into the hands of DAGO COLONIALIST IMPERIALISTS. That listening to the Botox Queen for more than 15 seconds would probably make almost anyone intelligent terminal. Or that “Cabinet Chief Aníbal Fernández and Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman dismissed remarks by Isidoro Graiver, brother of the late Papel Prensa majority stockholder David Graiver, who said the family's shares in the newsprint mill were sold “freely,” without “threats or extortion,” to the newspapers Clarín, La Nación and La Razón in 1976, the first year of the last military dictatorship.”
Aug 26th, 2010 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wonder if axel has any other stories with which to regale us?
Axel,
Aug 26th, 2010 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How long have the Kirschners been in power and yet only now do they take action against Papel Prensa SA, noting as harrier does previously that the former owners declared after democracy was re-established that the the family's shares in the newsprint mill were sold “freely,” without “threats or extortion”.
And also, since when was it necessary for a president to conduct trial by television. Clarin declared guilty before the case even reachs the courts. And this is to be a fair trial. I think not.
Argentina exige siempre. Pide no hacer el reclamo válido. La libertad de las Falklander. ¡Abajo la agresión argentina.
And I don't need to shout.
Papel Prensa was a state company that was fraudulently acquired by David Graiver,who was a banker who managed “montonero funds”. Graiver was killed in a plane crash in 1976, in 1978 he was indicted for embezzlement by Manhattan DA Robert Morgenthau. Gravier's widow was imprisoned by the military junta, she was tortured in a nazi gestapo fashion, and forced to surrender all title and rights of Papel Prensa to Clarin and Nacion newspapers. The widow survived and has come forward to tell the story.
Aug 26th, 2010 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The president of Argentina, has moved in the right direction to recover state property that was twice fraudulently sold.
and the Argentine population supports her 100%, everyone else NOT in Argentina can take their media and shove it in the back end while you cry us a river.
Marco, you seem to advocate freedom of speech, and your government is closing a media group down (something you support) as it does not reflect their own views...more twisted logic from Argentines! Priceless, but not surprising!
Aug 26th, 2010 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder is the Argentines practised freedom of speech when they occupied the Falklands...nope, they locked up local “troublemakers”.
One rule of themselves, another completely different rule for others. Seems to be a running theme in Argentina...
BE AWARE! After I posted some history facts someone is posting under my name marco.
Aug 27th, 2010 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr editor can you verify who is doing that?
Thank you
Here is what I posted that this person or persons did not like:
The Chagos Islands became, like the Falkands and a dozen other small remnants of the British Empire around the world, a Crown Colony. (Later, in a terminological manoevre to deal with the fact that the tide of world opinion had turned against colonialism, the British Crown Colonies were re-named by an act of Parliament as the British Dependent Territories; and they were subsequently re-named again as the British Overseas Territories.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/English_imperialism_octopus.jpg
Oh look more spam
Aug 27th, 2010 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JUSTIN KUNTZ. HARRIER.
Aug 27th, 2010 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the gov. toke actions now on papel prensa, is not because cristina concerns about having plural information in the country, what she really wants, is to avoid clarin to keep on interfering on the plan that she has for her government, clarin has always interfered on the decitions of every president, including nestor kirchner's .
Crritina can be an arrogant, corrupter, whatever, but she is not idiot, if i were the president, i would have done the same, the gov. musts finish with monopolys, argentina is the country of monopolys, there is not free competence like in the u.k., or like in usa, the monopoly that we have in the press, is not the only one that we have.
Regarding te message by national tv adress, the gov. only explained it's arguments wich justify it's survey, and said too what it thinks about, now the justice will judge the responsability of clarin, la nacion , and la razon, on the acquisition of papel prensa.
Regarding the words of isidoro graiver, i explained to another newspaper on june of this year, that clarin stole papel prensa to hes family, now he changed hes argumenst, only he knows why he did it, anyway like i said before, the cause is already in the hands of the justice.
About the malvinas's dispute, the actual scenario, is the result of the idiot intransigence of the three parts fo t conflict, i dont victimize our gov., because in some apects i dont agree on it's policy for the malvinas, i dont need to shout neather.
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