MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Kirchner couple actions plan to control Clarin and La Nacion newsprint mill
Argentina’s two main newspapers, Clarin and La Nacion claim the government of President Cristina Kirchner has a plan to eliminate their stakes at the country’s largest newsprint mill. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAnother filthy story from the 70's surfacing.....
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0More “untouchables” being touched.......
Take a look on Caraballo´s letter today in La Nación, a lawyer who was in prison alongside Graivers...his data confirms this is a can full of worms.
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0By the way, the “touchables” are the same that published 1500 optimistic covers that built Néstor image from 22% to 70%. It´s just a power game, not an ethical crossroad.
I know some of the details.....the motivations.... the intrigues.....
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But I just feel terribly good watching those “grey” eminences“ loose their eminence.
Too many Bastards are ”Heroes“ in todays Argentina just because they left some newspapers as bodyguards of their ”Legacy”.
Think whether you know if or not you are cheering the death of your fragile democracy. Have you never read History? Don't you at least know your own history?
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0fred...in case it should be worthy to answer you...how is it doing your OWN can full of worms?
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are lots of us very concerned that the current administration is trying to turn The USA into Argentina but we have an election in Nov that should fix that pretty quickly.
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since both countries were founded at about the same time you can plainly see which model works. Its too bad you allied yourself with the wrong nation and chose your ruinous path. Its been downhill since the 40s and it's not going to get better anytime soon.
Didn't Peron do this in the 40s? Are you expecting different results now?
The Kirchner couple are following the steps of their close friends Hugo, Evo, etc......and all of us knows what the result will be.....
Aug 23rd, 2010 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't cry.....FOR YOU, Argentina !!!!
Some day our neighbours will find the light at the end of the tunnel.......as well as we did in Chile last ballot day.
Sorry for you until then.
I am sure that a lot of people is going to believe the crap from clarin and la nacion, they say that gov. wants to control the press, however anyone who lives in this country knows that most press is already under the control of just 4 enterprises, the 83% of our information is in the hands of those 4 enterprises.
Aug 24th, 2010 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What kind of plural information and opinions can we have with that terrible concentration?, isen't it already an onset against the freedom of press, i hope that some one answers this to me please.
The gov. does not want to nationalize papel prensa, it only wants that enterprise to sell an equal prize to all the newspapers, specially those from the interior from argentina, because the prize for most enterprizes is very hight, due that papel prensa is mostly in the hands of clarin, la nacion, and la razon, and this is the main reason why most newspapers can't sell so many editions.
Beside the new broadcast law, that was sanctioned last year by a landslide at the congress, does not allow the monopoliums, and forces to all those enterprises that are in a situation of monopolium, to sell their enterprises, this is why, clarin, la nacion, and a few corporations are very ungry, and use the terrrible power that they have in the argentine media, to victimise their selves, and manipuate public opinion.
(2) Pheel
Aug 25th, 2010 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I did read Caraballo's letter....Now, you can take a look at this article:
http://www.telam.com.ar/vernota.php?tipo=N&idPub=196189&id=372813&dis=1&sec=1
Well....... I don't know how many “near deadth” (if any) experiences you had in the 70's but..............the history of Lidia Papaleo makes perfect sense to me.
Besides, the “Plan” for Papel Prensa is not a nationalization but a de-monopolization......I know, I know.... is not ideal but......nearly anything is better than the actual situation.
Papel Prensa is at the moment owned by a right wing, populistic media monopoly and was apropiated under torture from their previous owners.
What freedom of presss” does such a situation guarantee?
I didn't realize how much the Ks were harassing the owners of Clarin, they are trying ot drive it out of business. Right from Hitler's playbook.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703447004575450160952433980.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
9 Think:
Aug 25th, 2010 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I took a look on Telam note. As I see, it doesn´t say the opposite to Caraballo. Graiver were first pressured but without threats for the power that Papel Prensa implies. After David´s connection with Montoneros came to surface they were brutally arrested, tortured and sacked. But Papel Prensa has been bought the year before.
Today there is “a new card” in this chess/bridge :-) with an Isidoro´s Graiver letter re-affirming this with a legal notification to his nephew, Lidia´s daughter.
Cristina “relato” makes sense, but is false, as many of other well-thought “relatos”.
I guess that you have suffered a lot on those years. That is personal for all who had suffered then, and you have my understanding, be sure
Then I was just a kid of 14, inside a social-christian family with a firm solidarian drive. So I used to help kids at Villa 31. Until my father war threatened to death repeatedly by Montoneros for denying the payment of a revolutionary tax. That poisoned our life during 1974-77.
I learnt to hate and to use all kind of firearms, and to rejoice when a leftist was murdered. I regret that times and my young behaviour but specially the irresponsible creators of that sorrounding madness.Nevertheless I understand th better I can revolutionary guys, but also the popular claim for order (and repression) that you could listen everywhere.
Sorry, but my memory doesn´t allow some refurnished “relatos”, I have so much info and search on this.
I have collected a lot of different voices, trying to have the best big picture as possible. One of the voices is a partner and friend, former ERP member, alive thanks to Amnesty. Another is the local priest, arrested and tortured as a S3M priest. As I continue doing some social work I have a bunch of ex “revolutioners” around me, and can exchange some rich dialogues.
When I talked in my first posts here about tolerance, I wasn´t wishfull-thinking, just describing. I feel that Ks government is not going in a healthy sense.
“I have expectations of a historic compensation after 34 years. I feel it’s a great moment for Argentina and I am grateful that a woman president will settle this debt with the whole of the Argentine society”.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question. The Ks have been in power since May 2003. Seven years. Why now?
(11) Pheel
Aug 25th, 2010 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Papel Prensa:
The primordial thing is that this case is being taken to Court….. That’s the only way to go…… Maybe the truth will overcome, maybe the best lawyers will triumph, maybe the biggest lie will succeed…. I don’t know, but that’s the way to go………………
Personal experiences:
Quite a few paralells ……. many convergences……..some divergences………too many years gone by :-( :-0 :-)
Permit me to cut and paste some of your own words….:
”Exchange some rich dialogues” ”tolerance” ”I wasn’t wishful-thinking, just describing”
Well…..….. That’s, in my humble opinion, what the Kirchners, with all their faults and limitations, have given our Country.
Personally, it´s obvious that we understand our past and present beliefs.
Aug 25th, 2010 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Politically, perhaps, they are more divergences about what democratic convivence should be alike.
I agree in going to Court...but: it´s obvious that K were coming for the expropiation and in last 48 hours they went back...lies in president´s mouth should will not be accountables...the offensive looking for “only-one-speech” continues...the thugs are not Clarín´s imagination, I can experience them daily in agro forums, threatening, looking for our personal data, sending AFIP to oppositors, delaying legal benefits when you don´t agree with them.
As Utge, a corrupt manager of the ONCCA, then the second of Echegaray, today promoved to AFIP and having to make explanations at courts for bribery, said to me in 2008: ”we have the plain order to make you (agro) sh*t”.
My idea of tolerance is a bit different, something that if you are pro-gov or oppositor will not be treated different by AFIP, ONCCA, officialist media, for example. Socialists or rightists should have the same rights.
The next president should feel a lot more being a public servant than the last messiah. The oppositors not being the enemy. Hammurabi´s basics.
Is it too much to expect?
Asked with all the respect that you deserve.
”With all the respect that you deserve”
Aug 25th, 2010 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pleeeease;................... makes me feel old and self-important.
Next you will call me Don Think :-)
To answer directly the basic question:
No, it is absolutely not too much to expect from our future presidents (and the rest of the administration) more public service mentality and less of “the rest”……………..
But, as we both very well know, our political system has been based, until very recently, on a deadly mindset of distrust and polarization.
We on the left have considered any conservative minded person as a potential fascistoid.
And..
The right have looked at any social-democrat disposed person as a potential subversive.
Those times are happily over and the core of our society is healing. (Your above post is a good example)
I hope that the continuity of our present Government, with a strong popular mandate, will allow them to relax and “clean their act” of thugs and petty corruption.
My idea of tolerance corresponds totally with yours…. but you have to admit that our present government has been in a constant “State of Siege” since 2003 and that their counterparts are not exactly Kindergarten kids.
Respectfully…………………
FREDBDC:
Aug 25th, 2010 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As usuall the only one thing you know how to do, is to launch shit, and that's thanks the idiot resentment that you have against argentina.
On the other hand, you criticise from the place you are standing, it's very easy for you you to make critics to another country, because in the usa, your gov. does not allow the concentration of monopolys, but here the situation is absolutly diferent, clarin group is a poulp, it has 250 licences of radio and television, it has a newspaers, it has the strong interests in the agraian sector, and it had before the pension sistem, and the soccer's rights.
My question is, why can't we have right to a plural information, is it wrong?, now the government will send this week to the congress a project to find an equal prize for all the newspapers from the country, and that decition must be under the control of a bicameral comission.
In this way, there will be more newspapers that will be able to criticise the government, or support it.
If the only thing you can say, is that the gov. wants to harass clarin, that shows not only your lack of objetivity, it shows too that you will always be a moron resentfull.
Anyway i must recognize too that if cristina made this decitions, was not because she concerns about having plural information, what she really wants, is to avoid clarin to keep on interfering on the decitions that she takes for her government, clarin has always done that with every president, including with her husband, she could be an arrogant, corrupter, whatever, but she is not idiot.
Interfering with the freedom of the press. Who does the Botox Queen think she is? Adolphia Hitler. Idiot.
Aug 26th, 2010 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, Are you enjoying your time off while the students protest state of disrepair of all of the schools?
Aug 27th, 2010 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You argument is false, controlling any part of the press, including blocking the imports of newsprint or controling its production is a decrease in your freedom of Speech. That being said whether Clarin has 250 licenses or 10000 is irrelevant. We're they not granted by the state in the first place? Why not revoke the ones where they have a clear monopoly? Why start at Clarin? Why not shut down other internet providers? They don't have the largest share in all parts of the country, and going from 4 providers to 3 is not increasing competition is it? Back on the newspaper, I don't think this site actually prints so your argument is irrelevant because you are clearly getting information from sources other than print.
It is amazing to me that you are an educator, it is frightening what you must be teaching the next generation of Argentinians. They are going to be less informed and more backward than they are now.
FREDBDC:
Aug 27th, 2010 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your posture but i dont agree in absolut on it.
Regarding fibertel, it was shut by the gov., because it was absorved by cablevision (belonging to clarin group), with out any permission of the secretary of comunications, anyway the justice will judge if what the gov. made was right or not.
About clarin, dont you think that it's already an strong restriction to the freedom of press, if in the country the 83% of the comunications are in the hands of just 4 corporations?, what kind of plural information can we have with that great concentration?, it's not so dificult to understand.
I really think that the state must interfere to impide any kind of monopoly, here there is not free competence like in the usa, argentina is the country of monopolys, the monopoly of the press, is not the only one that we have.
On the other hand, if cristina started for clarin, it's because it's the bigest monopoly that there is in the press, beside last year it was approved by a landslide at the congrees, a new broadcast law, that law does not allow the concentration of monopolys, i agree absolutly on finding an equal prize for all the newspaers, because in this way, many of them wont have to import the paper, and there will be much more editions of all of them.
Regarding the students protests, i support the fight of them, i'm really proud of them, they are fighting against the terrible lack of a good budget for education., and that's thank your friend macri, you can already imagen what he would do, of he becomes into our next president, i really hope that son of a bitch never never never becomes the president.
Axel, are you drunk? I am having a a hard time understanding what you are tying to say. Having 83 % in the hands of 4 companies is good competition I doubt there is more in any other countries. In most civilized countries having 2 is considered OK.
Aug 29th, 2010 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are too stupid to see what CFK is doing it is not my problem. I don't live thee and I don't really care. You are losing your democracy if you are too stupid to see that it is your problem.
FREDBDC:
Aug 29th, 2010 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know perfectly what cristina is doing, i respect your posture, but i dont agree in absolut on it, anyway i dont consider that you are stupid because you defend monopolys, that's just your posture, wich is as respectable as mine.
If any other president since 1983 haden't taken actions on papel prensa, it was because they didnt want to have clarin group against their governments, including nestor kirchner's didnt take any action neather.
But now, the situation is diferent, cristina does not want clarin to keep on interfering on the plan that she has for her government, clarin group has always interfered on the decitions of every president, including nestor kirchner, if all the newspapers can have acces to an equal prize to the be provided of paper, there will be much more editions of all of them, even those wich criticise stronlgly the policys of the government, i dont know what kind of lose of democracy is that, with the actual scenario, most newspaper, pay a very hight prize to be provided of paper, and many of them must import it, that's why they can publish many editions, and that's because the main provider of paper, is mostly in the hands of three corporations, wich decide at what prize they sell the paper to all the rest of the newspaers, do you think it's democratic?, i dont think so.
”Started in 1972, Papel Prensa supplies newsprint to 170 newspapers in Argentina and is mostly in the hands of Clarin, (the main media group in the country and confronted with the government) which holds a 49% stake, followed by the Argentine state with 28%, La Nacion 22,5% and the rest belonging to third parties.”
Aug 29th, 2010 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of the three corporations being the Argentine government.
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