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Getting around sovereignty
By Roberto Cox (*) - Few people in Argentina, or Britain for that matter, are aware that in the years leading up to the war that was fought over the possession of the Islands that Argentina calls the Malvinas and Britain the Falklands, the British government was trying to integrate them with the mainland. Out of deference to the islanders — the Kelpers as they are called — I will not be so bold as to write that Britain was intent on giving the islands and their inhabitants to Argentina, but that was the general idea. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMmm, Mr Cox, a routine missile test, communicated in advance, that has been repeated annually for 28 years, that all of a sudden Argentina uses as a pretext for making a fuss. Who is ratcheting up tension there?
Nov 09th, 2010 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2007/04/18/exercise-cassin-falcon-shows-off-falklands-air-defence-systems
Nov 09th, 2010 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite Justin.
However I do like the tone of what Roberto is saying (if that is his real name wink wink), sensible chap.
And the group in question is a start at least sensible well thought out ideas that do not violate the Falklanders rights.
Mr Cox is caught in a time warp and it suits the unfortunate line he pedals to forget or displace, recent history in which Argentine military follies were dealt a bloody nose. Opportunities for Argentina to progress any form of “lets be nice and find a solution” pardigm (which gives any advantage to Argentina) are permanently dead-ducked. The beligerent and belicose statements of Mr&Mrs K during the last 8 years have merely served to usher in great distance between the Falklands and Argentina. Mr Cox needs to understand that. The gulf is now wider, deeper, and more extensive than immediately pre and post 1982 and as each day goes by the gulf merely grows larger. This is no time for 70's sentamentalism to re-emerge; there is now a new, post-Falklands war generation born in the Falklands who care not a jot for Argentina, its politics or for some flower-power notion of rapproachement! We are where we are and Argentine supporters and its president need to respectively understand that.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very good note: I differ with Roberto Cox: He claims of sovereignty on the islands he/she goes back from now on from 1833. Perón and Cristina Kirchner don't have the blame since they reflect feeling of the Argentinean town, of all Latin America and good part of the world, coarse to observe the resolutions of United Nations calling to the I dialogue.... I Reign United, in the whole history of the conflict, you always deceives even of the good faith of the Argentinean democratic governments previous to 1982. Is the query of the president pirates been worth for always? As that the world public opinion you interioriza more than the topic of the conflict, is very evident that the one claims of sovereignty on the islands it is very fair. Although Argentina suffered the state terrorism and it was an error to occupy the islands in 1982 on the part of the military ones, influenced by the doctrine of the national security of United States and England, he/she doesn't leave of being been worth the I claim since he/she goes back very behind in the time (1833)
Nov 09th, 2010 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The anachronic use of force in violation of international law and twice as much speech maintaining a colony, threatening the Argentina for the low thing nuclear weapons, it is contradictory with their proposals of I dialogue.
In spite of everything it is positive that it leaves of the opinion cubic Englishman it continues interested in abandoning imperial ideas and bet for the I dialogue and the world peace.
1 JustinKuntz, Who is ratcheting up tension there? Who else!
Nov 09th, 2010 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK of course, Sending nuclear subs, drilling in a disputed area and more.
“I think that the British government made an enormous mistake when it ordered, or authorized, military operations that involved the firing of missiles”
Well said Mr Robert Cox
@ falklandlad #3 “post-Falklands war generation born in the Falklands who care not a jot for Argentina”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, You should, because we are here, and you are here. Your comment makes me feel a dolt. I commented about peace, on another article, but as far as I can see, Malvinists and Falklandists? are not interested in peace at all.
Argentina will have none of the inhabitants of the Falklands, only our territory, but you could continue with their British identity. Argentina shelter throughout history millions of immigrants, every immigrant I can not imagine putting your flag as you saying this land is my country.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EscucharLeer fonéticamente
“UK of course, Sending nuclear subs, drilling in a disputed area and more.”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad you mentioned this.
The British government does not comment on Submarine operations, Therefore it may or may not have been true.
In 1982, the falklands war was started because Argentina read simular reports(and they were not true) which made Argentina speed up the invasion, incidentally - One of the reasons you lost the war.
As for the oil. It's there land.
“Argentina will have none of the inhabitants of the Falklands, only our territory, but you could continue with their British identity.”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And why the hell should they agree to this? They've lived there for longer than any other group of people in the history of the world.
They don't need to give you squat.
“every immigrant I can not imagine putting your flag as you saying this land is my country.”
The falklanders feel the same way about your flag.
Comment removed by the editor.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(3) Falklandlad
Nov 09th, 2010 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Refreshing to read the straight and honest opinion of one of the many” Youngish Hardliners” from the Islands.
Not all that whining from fat imported Brits about Argentina “blockading” the poor Falklands and comparing your situation with the Gaza Strip!!!
I totally agree with you when you say:
1) “Mr Cox is caught in a time warp”….
2) “Opportunities for Argentina to progress any form of “lets be nice and find a solution” pardigm are permanently dead-ducked….
3) ”There is now a new, post-Falklands war generation born in the Falklands who care not a jot for Argentina, its politics or for some flower-power notion of rapprochement”….
Yes sir…..
As you say: “We are where we are”….
I would add: You are what you are…..
And that’s why you, eventually, will have to leave ……………
This is not how many years they lived there, the territory is ours, is our land. I love her, love her. is at the heart of every Argentine. can live millions of years there, but the land is ours
Nov 09th, 2010 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This is not how many years they lived there, the territory is ours”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh ok, i see. It's fine for you to own something because you once lived there for 4 years.
But the people who have for almost 200 years, clearly in the wrong.
I get it.
“Mr Cox appears to be living in a time warp, like many in Argentina; only they would still refer to the Falkland Islanders as Kelpers. He should know that we have moved on: Argentines could do well to do likewise.”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will be 'millions of years', no doubt about that.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said “islander”. Mr Cox would do well to re-acquaint himself with the way of life of Falkland Islanders and their political and economic apsirations they are striving hard to secure, with the determined support of the UK Govt.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The usual Think spite, bile and hate, 9th and 10th generation islanders have to leave because the only way a bunch of different nationalities could be held together was to invent an irredentist claim to land that has NEVER, EVER belonged to Argentina. The only way he can feel good about himself is to bully and belittle a peaceful island community.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh poor little Argentina, the UK was mean to you. BS, Argentina became a rich and powerful nation when it traded with the British Empire, it was one of the 5th richest nations on the planet. Its decline into 3rd world status is entirely of its own making.
Poor Argentina suffered under a military dictatorship, the same military dictatorship you piled into the Plaza de Mayo to laud for invading a peaceful island community defended by 40 Royal Marines.
Poor little Argentina, the UK maintains a small force to deter further Argentine aggression but oh dear me, Argentina can't invade so it whines and moans about the annual test of a small short range air defence missile.
Please do continue to whine about the Falklands at every opportunity, listen to the sympathetic platitudes of your neighbours who laugh behind your backs at your arrogance and stupidity. Poor little Argentina.
Carry on with the same stupid, bellicose, bullying foreign policy, whine at every opportunity, because the world is just bored with you.
The first step towards the inevitable logic of union with Argenina will be a demiliterized condominium, with UN oversight, likely for as much as a generation, in orderto allow the 'old thinkers' to move on and the 'new thinkers' to become established. It is time to get this process started for the mutual and collective benefit of all involved.
Nov 09th, 2010 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“inevitable logic of union with Argenina”
Nov 09th, 2010 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As long as the islanders don't want it, wont happen.
“demiliterized condominium”
As long as the islanders wish us to keep a base there, we will.
“with UN oversight”
Veto.
“It is time to get this process started for the mutual and collective benefit of all involved.”
How is being controlled by argentina against the peoples wishes of benefit to anyone except Argentina?
It's not.
So respecting democratic rights and the right to choose your own future is “old school” is it El Supremo?
Nov 09th, 2010 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...... bodes well for the new enlightened future doesn't it? What is the new enlightened logic of the new age thinkers? would it be somewhere along the lines of Henriche Von Treitschke: “We desire even against their will, to restore them to themselves”.
Tell you what try this: Argentina drops it claim, recognizes the islanders rights to decide their future, stops with this silliness, trade opens up everyone is friends, hey presto, whats Argentina lost except the voting base of a few thousand nutjobs, and a slight loss of revenue in the Malvinas map printing industry.
Well, 19 & 20 - we shall all hopefully live long enough to see what transpires. Best Regards, El Supremo
Nov 10th, 2010 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interestingly I think the biggest danger to the Falklands issue could very well come from the same people , who are obliged to defend it
Nov 10th, 2010 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0[the politicians] they will do anything to push there massive egos’ ??
I think this is good enough to be posted on this forum.
Nov 10th, 2010 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-09/cameron-risks-spat-with-chinese-by-wearing-poppy-during-visit-to-beijing.html
-There's something funny about this embarrasing situation lol-
It's called having an iron will, as in steely determination, something long valued in the British character.
Nov 10th, 2010 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Iron will - sure. Steely determination - absolutely. Rust - inevitable.
Nov 10th, 2010 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I may say that (unfortunately) I share the islanders' views about Argentina's democracy...
Nov 10th, 2010 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Argie # 26 Democracies are not perfect, are perfectible, just like us, humans. However, it doesn't mean one day you'll be perfect, but you still have a chance to change what you're doing wrong.
Nov 10th, 2010 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These are Franklin last words before the Constitution was signed in 1787: “I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such: because I think a General Government necessary for us, but I believe, that this is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other.”
And these are Winston Churchill's words: “...Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.”
The problem is that sometimes we, as humans, can't see if we're still living in a Democracy or something like “whatever you like”, and sometimes this confusion benefits a group of people who don't like other people talking about it.
The problem with the Argentine system if you want an honest opinion, is that the tradition of Caudillo's has left Argentina with a constitution that concentrates too much power in a single individual, the president, who has too much power to over rule other institutions by decree. A better system would be provide for division/separation of powers.
Nov 11th, 2010 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I don't claim the UK system is better as the House of Commons as a disproportionate amount of power and the first past the post system allows for minority Government to impose bad legislation. We also need a system for better division/separation of powers.
xbarilox
Nov 12th, 2010 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0only throws childish comments,' prick', go and complain to the editer like you normaly do cry baby
Poor old Roberto is unfortunately living in a world of idealism untouched by current realities.
Nov 12th, 2010 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Several of the posts represent accurately the current mood in the Islands, and a mood that is sustainable without any help from Argentina. Not what everybody would want, but perfectly possible.
All the emotional claptrap about “deep in our hearts” and “million years” is just that - emotional claptrap. It is only 55 years since Europe was riven by war, now they work together. It doesn't take away the national boundaries, regional dialects, local councils or ethnic collectivities.....and doesn't have to. Nor does a reprocchement between the Falkland and Argentina have to.
The Falklands and Argentina can in the longer term find ways of living together in mutual respect. Such thinking does not involve one lot “owning” the other lot against their will. Few of the nationalistic, strident and bellicose posts on this site on all Falklands topics make much contribution to longer term logical thinking about the SW Atlantic.
There will be peaceful co-existance in the SWA one day, but we are nowhere near approaching it in the current set of circumstances. We need a prolonged period of silence to allow colonialist Argentine attitudes to re-adjust to modern thinking and respect for others. And then we can talk to each other again like good neighbours.
Their will always be an empty place at the table when Argentina is willing to be peacefull . When that day ever comes, we can all live in peace .
Nov 12th, 2010 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(30) Stillakelper
Nov 13th, 2010 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”It is only 55 years (sic) since Europe was riven by war, now they work together. It doesn't take away the national boundaries, regional dialects, local councils or ethnic collectivities.....and doesn't have to.”
And you know why?
Because hundreds if not thousands of ”minor corrections” involving the forceful “relocation” of millions of people from various neighboring Nations where made after that war.
The British Malvinas population does not even, by any standard, constitute a Nation, a Country or a State.....
They are just a small poblational “minor correction” waiting to happen.
Just like it happened in Europe 65 years ago……………..
Q.E.D.
Nov 13th, 2010 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Current Argentine thinking needs to improve by 20-30 years in terms of understanding basic human rights. Forceful re-location has never been a solution anywhere, and is is not a thinking mans option here either.
“They are just a small poblational “minor correction” waiting to happen.”
Nov 13th, 2010 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A “minor correction”, you will not ever “fix”.
A problem you will have to just suck up and deal with.
Time wil tell who was right. I'm deeply sure that the islands will “return” to argentina, it's just a matter of logistics and cooperation, and both depend on the contry's economy and principles. The failure of at least one of them means a loss of strength, that can be used by the opponent to gain (or re-gain) sovereignty.
Nov 16th, 2010 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again...time will tell us who was right
And time is so far proving us right.
Nov 17th, 2010 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0180 years of time.
so far time proved us U.K was better prepared for war than Argentina. In fact it proved us that U.K as everyone knows, the colonial power it is.
Nov 18th, 2010 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for the present days, colonial enclaves are no longer “trendy”, do you follow me?
“so far time proved us U.K was better prepared for war than Argentina”
Nov 18th, 2010 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not really, the UK was totally unprepared for the war. Argentina had on the otherhand all the time in the world to prepare. We only had two weeks to get ready.
What the war proved was the UK is better at war than Argentina.
“As for the present days, colonial enclaves are no longer “trendy”, do you follow me?”
We don't care for trends. So tough for you.
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