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US was concerned about Argentine reactions to Falkland Islands exploration round

Thursday, December 2nd 2010 - 01:50 UTC
Full article 71 comments

New cables released by the website Wikileaks and published by the Spanish newspaper El País state the US Secretary of State worries in June 2009 about the sudden change in the language of Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner's government in Antarctica and Falkland/Malvinas Islands case. Read full article

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  • Redhoyt

    “ ... an accord elaborated in 2004 with the US government and “other key governments,” that has been abandoned by Buenos Aires Government ....”

    Love to know what that accord was about !

    “ ... damage to the US companies involved in the project ...”:

    Them Yanks do get everywhere, don't they :-)

    “ .. the opinion of Exxon-Mobil CEO Brad Corson who believes there is not enough oil in the Falklands continental platform to make it commercially viable....”

    Any thoughts Beef ?

    ” ... the US government has received no letters to that effect in spite of the fact that the oil exploration rig contracted by the British company Desire Petroleum “is operated by a US company ...”

    Well, Argentina wouldn't want to annoy the USA now, would it :-)

    This WikiLeaks is fun isn't it :-)))

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    The world is concerned about the US ivading North Korea, Yemen, Iran, and so on and so on and so on.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    “This in spite of the fact that a telegram from the US embassy in London, February 2010, includes the opinion of Exxon-Mobil CEO Brad Corson who believes there is not enough oil in the Falklands continental platform to make it commercially viable”.
    Really?

    Now we know some of the Americans “secrets”, today is Russia turn in Wikileaks and very soon will know the day and time that UK will return Malvinas to Argentina.

    http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/nueva/actitud/Argentina/Malvinas/inquieta/equipo/Clinton/elpepuint/20101201elpepuint_30/Tes

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    They're document leaks Morecrap ... not crystal ball leaks lol

    :-)

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    ID: 247279
    Date: 2010-02-04 16:14:00
    Origin: 10BUENOSAIRES71
    Source: Embassy Buenos Aires
    Classification: CONFIDENTIAL

    “What Next? Brits Concerned”

    7. (SBU) U.S. companies currently operating in Argentina have not
    indicated an interest to participate in current exploration
    activities near the Falklands; Randy Smith, ExxonMobil's Public and
    Government Affairs Manager, told Econoff January 29 that his
    company is not interested..
    (I wonder why, no oil or afraid of sanctions?)

    ID: 250553
    Date: 2010-02-24 19:50:00
    Origin: 10LONDON439
    Source: Embassy London
    Classification: CONFIDENTIAL//NOFORN

    Allen noted
    that the main supply links to the islands were a weekly
    flight to Chile and cargo shipping to and from Uruguay and
    Brazil. He expressed some concern that these countries could
    in the future be tempted to restrict those links out of
    solidarity with Argentina.

    5. (SBU) Oil exploration and production within the
    Falkland's conservation zones require licenses granted by the
    Islands' government. Plans to drill must be approved by the
    Governor of the Falkland Islands.
    (And the islanders believe the little oil is theirs)

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    “ ... “ .. the opinion of Exxon-Mobil CEO Brad Corson who believes there is not enough oil in the Falklands continental platform to make it commercially viable....”

    Seems clear enough ...... but is he right?

    The oil does belong to the Falkland Islanders, Morecrap, the questions that still have to be answered are, ”how mush oil is there?“ and ” is it viable to get it out?”.

    The answers to those two questions will dictate the future in as much as will the islanders continue at their present level as an Overseas Territory of Britain, or will they get rich, expand and seek independence ....... earlt days :-)

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Appears that Exxon are a bit gutted that they missed out in 1998! This comment comes before the RKH find “standalone commercial” and they didn't have access to seismic data shot after the very brief 1998 drilling round.

    Commerciality as an oil province will take a long while to confirm or refute so Exxon would have been making this opinion based on limited data.

    Marco. Is CFK medicated?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (7) Beef

    RKH find “Standalone Commercial” ???

    Just like that!!!

    You “improve”, “perk up”, and “upgrade” information in a “very funny” way....

    Are you sure that it is not you that need some Lithium?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Oh Think. 20 mins ago another oil discovery has been confirmed. Thank you Desire, Dr Beef in the money again! I like the fact that a fairway has been confirmed and more oil finds will follow. Yeeeeehaaaaaaaa!

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    ” ... the U.K. explorer focused on the Falkland Islands, said its Rachel North well discovered oil.

    After drilling to a depth of 3,052 meters (10,000 feet), data indicate that the well encountered 57 meters of net pay in multiple zones, the company said in a statement in London today. Desire said it will now complete logging and sampling to analyze the quality and significance of the discovery.

    Desire shares have gained almost 60 percent since the end of October on speculation it would strike oil. Earlier this year, Rockhopper Exploration Plc made the first potentially commercial find around the South American islands that U.K. Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher went to war to defend in 1982.

    “This discovery, combined with Rockhopper’s Sea Lion discovery, confirms our belief that the eastern flank play fairway in the North Falkland Basin is highly prospective and that further oil fields will be discovered in this area,” Stephen Phipps, chairman of Desire, said in a statement....”

    Beef tells no lies !

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    An academic does not lie. I may use a discourse that supports my argument but that argument is based on facts. I suggest our Argentine posters adopt the same approach. They may get more respect!

    Drilling continues and Argentina is powerless to stop it. Time to take your move Argentina. If you can't beat them then join them. Makes sence; agree?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    SP up 33p :-)

    Well done!

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Everybody has known since the 70's that there is oil down there!

    The BIG question is: --- Is it commercial?---

    Sea Lion field has not been confirmed “commercial”, not even by Rockhopper itself.

    Today's discovery's “commercial potential” is already been disputed by many British oil “experts”....

    And, of course, Argentinas stated intention is to transform any eventual British “Commercial” discovery into an “Non Commercial” discovery..

    As simple as that............

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Think. It is about commercially of the basin and this find confirms oil extends across a wide area. An appraisal programme will confirm commerciality but these exploratory indications are shortening the odds of regional commercially.

    The Argentina part of the equation can be cut out simply with existing technology. If you wish to get involved then the door is open but your collaboration is not required and with increased belligerence from you lunatic leader will be increasingly unwanted.

    Time for your leadership to wise up and enter the real world. Otherwise Argentina will continue to be the nearly man.

    More drilling to come through 2011 but now with two rigs confirmed. Happy days!

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    ID: 857286
    Date: 2010-12-01 21:32:00
    Origin: 10BUENOSAIRES71 TERMINAL
    Source: Embassy Buenos Aires
    Classification: CONFIDENTIAL

    Dr. Beef was seen taking 21:00 flight BUE / BAHAMAS on one way ticket carrying papers and a briefcase full of Greenbacks to buy shares of YPF from REPsol after successful selling on pick of the dummy shares in Desire Petroleum.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lageraemia

    I'm in the money! I'm in the money! I got a lot of what it takes to get along!!!

    Don't you just LOVE capitalism, the right to self-determination and the rule of law?

    You Argies should try it someday.............

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (11) Beef

    You coul'd call it: “I may use a discourse that supports my argument”,..... I guess.

    But then…………

    When was Sea Lion declared “Standalone Commercial” ?

    When did they “confirm” that second rig ?

    Try, at least, to keep the academic standards when speaking about oil ....
    It is bad enough when you categorize the physiological functions of Argentinean soldiers as “war crimes” or use the good old “ nazi card” (Godwin's Law) to fill the argumentative vacuum.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    RKH - post flow test RNS = discovery as commercial!

    BOR - rig contract now signed - not just a letter of intent! Congolese in recent RNS

    Both the above are facts! Regulated facts for that matter!

    War Crimes - killing soldiers coming to accept a surrender is a war crime, firing shells from agreed no fire civilian areas is a war crime and paint evey building with a red cross on it is a war crime. Like I said to Nico, Argentina has no real balls for a fight.

    Carry on with your puny little nails of diplomacy. We will carry on with the big galvanized nuts and bolts of business.

    Think, your leadership's bleating is confirming the Argenitne identity as the spokespeople of disappointment. You country deserves much more but if you are unwilling to make the right decisions for it to achieve more then you only have yourselves to blame.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (18) Beef
    1)
    RNS: 9110S Rockhopper Exploration plc 17 September 2010
    We believe …………………………, that the Sea Lion discovery will be commercially viable.
    ”WE BELIEVE THAT WILL BE” is hardly a confirmation. Is it?

    2)
    Contract signed all right…… I must be getting old…..
    I even commented on the signing of this contract in MercoPress :-( …. :-)

    3)
    Those three incidents are obviously wrongdoings and worth mentioning Your latrinary / nazi fixation, by the contrary, not.......

    4)
    ”Argentina has no real balls for a fight”
    Here we go again…
    Academic at work…
    Hooligan at home…
    A common British phenomenon, perhaps?

    5)
    Rest assured that we will continue to clash about the Malvinas issue at the diplomatic AND the economical front for many years to come….

    6)
    And, last but not least…………….
    We have made the right decision about the South Atlantic and the only “blaming point” I can see is that we didn’t take it fifty years ago.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    I am not going to argue regarding the designs you make for yourself. After all I believe in individual liberty. But there is no point in blaming others for the failings of your own policy.

    The Islands have the rights to make their own descisions and the odds are increasingly shortening that their economic future will be stabilized by many years of oil exploration and production. The post-modern discourses of competitive capitalism have changed with time and the benefits of collaboration are plain to see. It is up to Argentina to make her mind up about wether it want to engage for it's own benefit and it is increasingly evident that the current approach is ineffective.

    I thought Chile was not going to allow the Royal Navy to be involved in it's recent naval show?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (20) Beef

    Let’s put it this way……………..

    South America’s policy towards Malvinas is precisely the same as Britain’s policy towards Somalia……

    We won’t accept pirates, thieves or terrorists…………

    Sometimes however, it is necessary to “lower the standard” and “pay a ransom” to get something in return….

    An exception that confirms the rule……

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    I think you mean Argentina's. The actions appear to show South American lip service only. Royal Navy in Chile, defense agreement with Brazil (who are happy to provide port facilities to oil exploration vessels).

    Another galvanized business nut and bolt in the UK approach to the Falkland Islands. They beat your tiny diplomatic nails in your empty coffin. Have you found a hammer yet by the way?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Typhoon

    “We won’t accept pirates, thieves or terrorists…………”

    Excellent! As Argentina and Argentines are all three.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    I mean South America, Mr. Beef.
    I definitely mean South America....

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    You must be suffering from delusions then think as the last time I checked Chile and Brazil are part of South America. They are happy to placte you with words but their actions appear at odds with your claims.

    Business is business after all and the action of these two neighbours appears consistent with sensible economics and real diplomacy. Diplomacy that actually does something.

    The more we find out about the basins surrounding the Islands the more others will be interested in getting in on the action. Words have little value when not backed up with action. I think you are being ripped off by your government. All that tax for the production of hot air.

    Your fault, you elected them. Lesson = “Don't vote; It onlty Encourages the B******s”

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Just as well there are no pirates, thieves or terrorists involved then Think!

    The British are none of those .... and if you think otherwise then you should take the opportunity to lay down your evidence ... but you don't do history do you Think. Or legality come to that. It's this avoidance that makes Argentina look so ridiculous in our eyes.

    If you think you have a case - take it to the ICJ. Otherwise shut up! There's no other option. Nibbling at the edges isn't going to achieve anything!

    And if the oil does flow and Argentina pursues an illegal blockade, the Britain has every right to approach both the WTO and the Security Council ..... maybe we'll take it to the ICJ after all ... although the last time we tried something similar Argentina bottled it .... ready for another go??

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (25) and (26)

    We will have to wait and see....
    Won't we?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    the only reason the argies did nothing , is that the Americans told their leader, [if you want to look silly and stupid, instead of pretty and dumb]
    go ahead, if not forget it, [and what did argentina do] FORGET IT olol

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    @27

    “we will have to wait and see”

    You should be used to waiting by now Think, carry on.
    :-)

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Beef
    “Like I said to Nico, Argentina has no real balls for a fight.”

    Ah! Beef provoking, provoking but I will not get into it.

    I know that your posts are a desperate attempt to change ASAP the subject.

    You have framed the Islanders as I said to you before, when first time I met you in this forum.
    Come on be a man and accept it you are a lair and cheater selling illusions.

    @Redhoyt

    “ready for another go??”

    We are and you? When?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    What illusions and who have I cheated. Is a lowly academic able to cheat a market? No, we are all slaves to the market, you included!

    When it comes of the Islands and high value economy activity then watch as those who give you verbal support take alternative courses of action. At present they are hedging their bets, which is a sensible course of action.

    Nico - You are the one bigging up your military capacity - now that is what I call ramping.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Beef

    Not all, there is someone that create the market other that manipulate the “market”, the bookies of the “market” and the victim of the market.

    Do you know the dot com bubble, the fever of gold in Amazonia, SIVs, etc?

    You are selling ticket for a horse that never won a race and even though the horse can run (fund commercial oil) we own the only available hippodrome in town and its close for your horse.

    You cannot win anyway, and please don’t start to talk about the new available technology because you know that this will turn any oil found (if any really) into and unavailable commercial project.

    So your closer Hippodrome its in Houston Texas may be. Do you know how expensive its to bring your horse there?

    So here a new investment portfolio Idea for you (free of charges).

    Send canoes with bottle of water to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, etc that will be more profitable than your oil dream.

    About the Army: You are a gambler so you know that its 50/50
    I bet for my horse and you?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    “About the Army: You are a gambler so you know that its 50/50 ”

    No nico, lmao. Your Armed forces are pathetic.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Zethee

    “Your Armed forces are pathetic”

    Well seems was enough in 3 times for you and the last time you were lucky that's all.

    But this its the past none is dancer until dance.
    Music in on and I can hear the sound and you?

    You for us (in war) are like in football may be we will use the hand of god this time.

    After all we can call Batman and Robin according with US wikileaks.

    What do you think ha?

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    What do you think ha?

    I think you need a check up from the neck up

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    “Well seems was enough in 3 times for you and the last time you were lucky that's all.”

    You're right, we was lucky we were fighting Argentina and not someone else, Someone else might have put up a fight!

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Nico is ramping up the Argentine military again. If you are so confident Nico then why don't you sign up. I imagine you would like bobbing around the South Atlantic in one of your four patrol boats, safe in the knowledge that an undetectable Royal Navy hunter killer is looking out for you if you sink.

    Dec 02nd, 2010 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    Thats rubish nico, how many times before you can claim a victory,
    or are you realy saying that britain can beat you a hundred times, but it wont count, but if Argentina wins just once, then you win and we lose,
    boy what a way to win a war, your turn next then ??

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    NiceButDim cannot sign up ... he has to wait for his balls to drop and his voice to break !

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Boys,

    You live in fantasy land and in eternal denial like with the state of your economy, your position in Europe and your self made hype over your military power.

    @ briton

    “britain can beat you a hundred times”

    When you will land to earth again?

    Well after seeing your well trained forces in action, I start to get scary but about your own safety of course.

    Superior British army in action
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded

    Briton Air force in action don’t miss it haha
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aydbBl6_W0&feature=player_embedded

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 05:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    I've got to hand it to you Nico, if you could fight as proficiently as you post U-tube links you'd be one bad-assed dude.

    “So your closer Hippodrome its in Houston Texas may be. Do you know how expensive its to bring your horse there?”

    What's wrong with Brazil? I understand they're up for it.
    ;-))

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    @32: “About the Army: You are a gambler so you know that its 50/50”

    In all seriousness, Nico is right. Wars are uncertain things but certainly the RN took significant losses in landing the UK forces to retake the Falklands in 1982. It was not easy.

    What was also clear is that the landings could not be easily prevented despite the best efforts of the ARA and FAA.

    Indeed I read the lessons of this conflict have been greatly studied bythe RN which has reconfigured its requirements to address the difficulties it experienced then because they were applicable to all future littoral operational issues. Clearly a navy configured to perform deep sea anti-submarine operations, was sub-optimal to support landings & assaults and was more vulnerable to air attack than thought.

    What I do know is that any future conflict would be equally bloody or worse and I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments of Jorge Luis Borges that:

    “The Falklands war was a fight between two bald men over a comb.”

    The people who lost their died deserved to live and be with their family and friends today.

    Surely all sides have learnt that conflict is no answer and that all sides adhering to the UN Charter and its resolutions in good faith and good spirit of cooperation is the right choice.

    To me the frustration of escalatory diplomacy takes the issue in the wrong direction. Détente, friendship and cooperation has got to be the right path to chose in the long run to settle matters amicably.

    I am sure the new reforms of the UN will go ahead in the next few years and that perhaps Argentina will no longer fear the ICJ and will actually at least request an advisory opinion through the C24, as the UK or Falklanders may also chose to do.

    I hope for a friendly outcome one day!

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @WestisBest

    Seriously why Brazil a country full of oil will jeopardize its relations with its principal partner (Argentina) that now it is best friend, with who has not conflicts etc. with more than 50bn steady trade, for processing your oil?

    They will need to process from 2 millions barrels a day to make 50bn (likely its own production) at $73 lets say close to Saudi Arabia. More than Iran, 3 times the Argentina’s production or Singapore, Venezuela and Iraq combined.

    Why they will do this when Venezuela and Argentina are willing to expand its production capacity and Brazil already operates in both countries?

    You underestimate the intelligence of the Brazilians I guess.

    So here we are again the only solution for you to become the new Qatar or Kuwait is if Argentina builds a big Oleoduct (Pipeline) and Gasoduct (for gas) from the Island to mainland.

    That will make the project commercial viable to be consumed here or exported abroad.
    But for that to become true we need a paper where says UK irrevocably renounces to any kind of claim of sovereignty from now to eternity over the Islands and around.

    Clink $$$$$$$ limos champagne and girls.

    I would like to clarify you that the cost of extraction of a barrel of oil its around $6 (including finding cost and lifting cost etc) and the price of sell its $73 more or less.

    You were promised to get %29 but over $73 or $6????

    Because 29% of $6 its $1.74 and 29% of $73 its $21.17 make some research and call me please.

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Nico - FPSO. Don't need you!

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    @43

    ”Seriously why Brazil a country full of oil will jeopardize its relations with its principal partner (Argentina) that now it is best friend, with who has not conflicts etc. with more than 50bn steady trade, for processing your oil?“

    Jeapordise it's relations? LOL, don't flatter yourself Nico, Brazil is a big, successful player and you need Brazil one hell of a lot more than they need you, no way you Argies are going to risk threatening Brazil over such an inconsequential issue as the Falklands.

    Anyway is Brazil your best friend? why then are they dumping a 3 billion dollar trade defecit on you? that's not the sort of thing that ”best friends” do Nico.

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    I agree, Brazil is far too big for Argentina and has a better view of the 'bigger picture'.

    Argentina may be useful for Brazil's plans to dominate South America, but Brazil is looking further afield for her future !

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @WestisBest
    We are still big enough don't get confuse for the GDP figures around there and the distortion of the undervalue exchange rate. A simple alignment to Brazil exchange rate as was in historic levels and we have the size of Australia and if we peg to the dollar again we over pass Mexico.
    We cannot do this now because we have to pay some debt in dollars and this exchange rate its good to get U$s from exports. 75bn for this year and growing.

    So still friends sometimes we have surplus and others they have. We share political values more than $$$.

    Anyway if we are too little being the 20th economy in the world, the 5th economy in the whole continent, and the 2nd in South America...

    What about you guys that the first time you appears in any chart is below 200 position.
    Come on boys get real that its not the way to make your point.

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    Well believe what you want to believe Nico, when Brazil actually starts getting tough with us rather than paying lip service to Argentinas posturing then perhaps I'll take your ranting seriously, no sign of it yet.

    “What about you guys that the first time you appears in any chart is below 200 position. ”

    Considering that we are such a tiny country I would be very very surprised if we ever did in any overall statistics, per capita on the other hand.......
    ;-))

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    NiceButDim - actually Argentina is around 30th whilst we sit in 6th place currently.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Redhoyt

    Your figures are completely wrong even the Economist and FMI recognize more nominal GDP than that Archenemies of this govt.

    They say 4% growth the rest of the world say more than 8% and we say 9%
    “Argentina is poised to expand 8%;”
    You can read here.
    http://en.mercopress.com/2010/12/03/mercosur-economies-forecasted-to-grow-between-7.5-and-10.1-this-year

    $375bn nominal PPP: $666bn last year according IMF

    http://en.mercopress.com/2010/12/03/mercosur-economies-forecasted-to-grow-between-7.5-and-10.1-this-year

    But here what the tax revenue has reported from declaration of business sales to pay taxes in 2009.
    Hey none report more to pay more taxes to favor any govt in the world.

    2009 1.975 trillion pesos / official exchange rate dec 2009 $3.50 = 564.28 USD Billions

    Let’s take a rough 20% (crazy Clarin/La Nacion estimation) inflation out in dollars

    451.42bn I know that its not the way you have to use a deflator but even like this gives another figure.

    In this its not calculated informal sector like its use to do in Europe, etc.

    So take out of your list of FMI now the EU that its not a country and the territory of China that its counted 2 times and Argentina will be #19 with else 20 nominal.

    In the list of WB #20 and In CIA factbook also 20.

    Take the FMI that has not Idea becasue from 2006 cannot see the numbers anymore and Argentina its 25/26/27 depends on the list.

    And BTW you are not in the 6th any more Italy overpass you
    1- USA
    2- China
    3- Japan
    4- Germany
    5- France
    6- Italy ↑ up
    7- UK ↓ down
    8- Brazil ↑ up
    9- Spain ↓ Down
    10- Russia ↑ up

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    And BTW you are not in the 6th any more Italy overpass you

    We got to go some to go from 4th to 30th as did Argentina

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    “And BTW you are not in the 6th any more Italy overpass you”

    That list is wrong.

    1- USA - $13,860,000,000,000
    2- China $7,043,000,000,000
    3- Japan $4,305,000,000,000
    4 - India $2,965,000,000,000
    5- Germany $2,833,000,000,000
    6. United Kingdom $2,147,000,000,000
    7. Russia $2,076,000,000,000
    8. France 2,067,000,000,000
    9. Brazil $1,838,000,000,000
    10. Italy $1,800,000,000,000

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zethe

    Unless ofcourse, you decide it's nominal that nations are judged on, but you've been so sure it's PPP. in which case the UK is still sixth.

    Dec 03rd, 2010 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    NiceButDim, you could work for Indec :-)

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Zethee
    Please update your figures even in 2008 Britain knows that will shrink below Italy.

    And that figures were did you get it? Doesn’t even much GDP in PPP.

    We are talking in OER (Official Exchange Rate) Nominal GDP.

    You have to take into account devaluation of the pound what shrink any economy like happen with Argentina. Else we would have and economy close to 2 trillions.
    Your economy now in dollars terms its much less you are 1.9 trillions now not that figure and falling.

    UK economy overtaken by Italy
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6418344/UK-economy-overtaken-by-Italy.html

    “UK economy may drop out of global big ten”
    “The UK economy has fallen to become the seventh largest economy in the world and may fall further, warns the Centre of Economic and Business Research.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6418344/UK-economy-overtaken-by-Italy.html

    “But most embarrassing of all will be the news that as a result the UK has now fallen beneath Italy for the first time since the mid-1990s to become the world’s seventh biggest economy”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6418344/UK-economy-overtaken-by-Italy.html
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6418344/UK-economy-overtaken-by-Italy.html

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/6418344/UK-economy-overtaken-by-Italy.html

    In 2 or 3 years Brazil will overtake UK and the fall will not stop there.

    So I wouldn’t laugh so much if I would be you about Argentina you are same path and we are now 20 bigger economy in the world and soon you will be out of the 10th . Haha no so far from Argentina mate no so far.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    NiceButIncreidblyDIM - well, your first 2 articles are 12 months or more out of date ..... the Guardian article is Dec 2008 and I couldn't be bothered after that. You need up-to-date data. Do try and keep up!

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wireless

    Interestingly the Falkland Islands would be ranked above 190th place in the CIA World Fact Book 2009, if they were Independent, with just 0.03% of the GDP (nominal) of that of Argentina.
    What is also interesting is however the alleged Argentines here 'bigs up' Argentina, it still only has 14.2% of the GDP (nominal) of the UK.
    I just can't see Brazil increasing its GDP (nominal) by more than 38% in 3 years, or indeed the UK GDP (nominal) falling by that figure over the same time period.

    There is however, one country in the World that does have an economy that shrinks its GDP by such an amount within a short period of time, Argentina.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @ Wireless

    Nope Argentina its not 14% of UK GDP actually its around 25% of its GDP and in PPP around 40%.

    Those figures are without consistence an unverifiable data from IMF and WB so they are repeating figures from 2006 when was last time when had access to govt official data.

    CIA also says that have taken data from the “data are based on private estimates; official figures lack credibility” So the believe the data of a guy with a phone in an office writing papers without any data.
    How a private can calculate a GDP without knowing or taking into account the taxpayer declaration income for example? Magic? To make an index to estimated inflation in a country like Argentina you need at least a dedicated team of 1000 experts and professional reviewing data every day.

    If you take the figure update of IMF for 2009 375bn and add 8% (base estimation of growth for 2010 almost consolidate) you will have a closer real figure of USD 405bn nominal.

    IMF during the beginning of the ’90 was calculating the GDP of Argentina in 50bn when actually was 5 times that figure. What cause the anger of US for the mess of the IMF.

    IMF also said in 2007 that the recession in US and UK would last 9 month well now has gone almost 4 years and still in recession.

    Can you trust people that cannot predict a world financial crisis and how long will last recession?
    Haha not way.

    So here my predictions of Nico private think tank for the next 10/15 years.

    Country’s economies like UK, France, Italy and Spain will be among the economies of Australia, Singapore, Argentina, Canada and Mexico. China will take over US. Brazil, Russia, Japan and India will be in the same league of Germany.

    Haha and then you will see title of books like this “UK a sad story! From a world economy power to a 3er world country. What was wrong? ”

    Until now I have never miss one. haha

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wireless

    Duh Niconicebutincrediblydim,

    'CIA World Fact Book 2009 List of countries GDP (Nominal)

    UK 2,179,00 Millions of dollars USD
    Argentina 310,100 Millions of dollars USD
    Falkland Islands 105.1 Millions of dollars USD'

    310,100
    ------------- x 100 = 14.2%
    2,179,000

    They obviously spend far too much time labouring on with the political and historical indoctrination in Argentine Schools regarding the Falkland Islands, and not enough on basic Mathematics; which is probably another reason why the economy of Argentina went down the toilet in recent years, defaulting on all its debts through the IMF and devaluing its currency by thousands if not millions of percent.

    You even had to lock your Banks to stop people withdrawing their money, which you forget so quickly, has that happened in the UK? I didn't think so.

    You respond with your own figures, and everyone on here thinks you're on a different planet, even your Malvinist mates, so you'll forgive me if I wipe my arse on your figures to make them more valuable.

    I rest my case, you're on paco, have to be, its either that or you're licking all the windows on the short bus they drive you around in, and at this very moment trying to lick your elbows while dribbling over the keyboard with your fingers up your arse.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Wireless

    Are you dummy or what?

    That its not the GDP of Argentina I showed you that even IMF and the Economist show that its wrong as they estimate 375bn. What also its wrong do you understand or need medication?

    Here mate http://www.economist.com/node/17510372?story_id=17510372&CFID=155661378&CFTOKEN=90330571

    Can you read or need assistance? GDP: $375bn nominal (2009) and passed for a deflator.
    And they predict a growth of 4% when I already told you that also its wrong because the most conservative says 8%.

    So here again 375bn +8%= U$s 405 bn

    How could that be 14% of UK GDP if your GDP now its 1.9 trillions????

    It is 21,315789473684210526315789473684 % if you like precise numbers

    And based on IFM numbers what I said before that the GDP its more so I get another figure.

    And you have to make a basic math from school to do that haha
    310,100
    ------------- x 100 = 14.2%
    2,179,000

    So stop with your silly “try to teach you math” because you still are in kinder garden mate and indeed using wrong figures from wiki and CIA factbook.

    And here a question to show you that you have not idea about economy or whatsoever either.

    What its the nomenclature used to describe the cash and deposit in banks in a given economy?

    Its really easy for someone so smart like you mate. The call me back.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    nicotine
    Explain to me the Mathematics of Argentinas fall from 4th to 30th richest country in the world,no cheating and using your toes to count

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NicoDin

    @Stiky

    Live explanation by seeing Britain you cant start from Tony Lair, Gordo Brabum and David Camerum.

    UK went from 3th to 7th in just in 3 years rate 1.3333/y so in 15years aprox. You will be right were we are now.

    We spent 60 years to do that your speed its excellent, good learner keep doing that good job may be you will be out of the G20 faster.

    So mate you can teach to Us on how to destroy a nation in 3 easy steps a mean Blair Brown Cameron AKA BBC Even G. Soros was sarcastic when choosing your puppets. Haha

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wireless

    I believe Nicofingeruphisbum has to be about 12 years old, and his mom doesn't know he's using the computer.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    I understand that given your natural resources and population Argentina should be one of the richest (if not the richest) countries in the world and you've had...how long is it?....170 odd years of independance to make a success of yourself.....what went wrong I wonder?

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    “Please update your figures even in 2008 Britain knows that will shrink below Italy.”

    Absolutly classic, telling me to update my figures WHILE posting links over two years old. Yes our economy did dip below Italys for a short while, this is nolonger the case.

    Also tragic how you NOW claim that it's nominal GDP that we are to judge out economy on, when two weeks ago you was telling me it's PPP.

    Let's be done with this, it's very easy to prove you wrong, on every debate.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    http://www.einfopedia.com/top-ten-economies-of-the-world-in-2010-the-best-progressing-economy.php
    Sixth.

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    The argies are awash with money

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/02/ap/tech/main7111771.shtml

    Dec 04th, 2010 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    Thats because your economy is negligible gdr, like when you bankrupted in the 1990's, the world market didn't notice, the world market didn't care.

    Dec 05th, 2010 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • briton

    NicoDin [he only believes what he smokes] crap crap crap.
    He thinks Argentina can beat all comers, even when she fails to show up lol

    Dec 05th, 2010 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    Little Nicky, this isn't the weekly roundup of statistic, you must be on the wrong topic again!

    This current discussion is related to how insignificant your countries economy is world wide.

    I don't recall the price of corn beef hash or the £ dropping in value when the mighty economy of Argentina collapsed lol :)

    Read the question dumb dumb and you won't look like the fanatical idiot who feels the need to defend the honor of the motherland even when we level criticism about your financial crisises!

    Whats your reply to that? Another video of the Brixton riots? (again....) and how this magically is related to any of the topics you seem incapable of answering.

    Dec 06th, 2010 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    obviously --UK --is in deep crisis

    So argies only use cash,thats if the banks let you take your money out
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2002/jan/11/argentina.internationalnews

    Dec 07th, 2010 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    Oh round of applause to you Nicodume!

    You can cut and paste figures!

    Now what do those statistics tell us?

    Absolutely nothing!

    So some people have decided they don't need 5 credit cards?

    Big deal.

    Does that mean the economy is going up the spout?

    If so then why have we seen 2% growth this year?

    You fail Nicodume on so many levels.

    Now can we get back to the original question?

    Do you freely admit that Argentina has defaulted on all its loans?

    Dec 09th, 2010 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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