Prime Minister David Cameron ratified full and resolute British commitment to the Falkland Islands sovereignty and to the development of its economy and defence. However he also admitted that “it is in all our interests that we maintain a constructive working relationship with Argentina”. Read full article
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An example of a balanced and statesman approach to communication. Makes a nice change to the hooting, hollering and hysterics of CFK and other psychotic Argentine leaders.Dec 24th, 2010 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Beef - agreed. I wonder how many analysts and law-makers CFK will throw at dissecting PM Cameron's speech. They would be best to read it as it is, and firmly accept the UK and FI position. However I suspect at this time of seasonal goodwill and cheer the opposite will prevail and the new year will deliver more hooting, hollering and hysteria from across the water. Merry Christmas to all.Dec 24th, 2010 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Another nail in the coffin of Britain's presence on the South Atlantic....Dec 24th, 2010 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
And there can and will be no negotiations on the sovereignty of the Islands unless you, the Falkland Islanders, want them”.Dec 24th, 2010 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Lights camera action, bring on the
hooting, hollering and hysterics
To all British citizens of the Falkland Islands:Dec 24th, 2010 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
I have said innumerable times that Britain will stand with you. I miss no opportunity to remind my MP of Britain's duty to its citizens wherever they may be. Be safe. Be happy. We are with you, whatever it costs.
A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!!!
Well said Cameron.Dec 24th, 2010 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Merry Xmas to all british peoples all over the free world,Dec 24th, 2010 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
and a rotton Xmas to argentinian bad people who want only violence and war, shame on them,
and a happy new year to all.
Argentina will proberbly stick with the old years lol.
Father Xmas is on his way to the falklands with all the presents,
freedom for all,
what a discomposure in comments !!!!Dec 24th, 2010 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Malvinas Islanders have to declare their Independence from
UK Monarchy by using self-determination right..and
change their sheepy figured flags...
after UN' recognition..we may negotiate with them !
we may negotiate with themDec 24th, 2010 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Thats big of you
change their sheepy figured flags
To the Argie coat of arms? motto hooting, hollering and hysterics
#8 If and when the people of the Falkland Islands decide to declare independence it will be at a time of our choosing, not yours, that is self determination.Dec 24th, 2010 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
In all likelihood the Falkland Islands would retain the Queen as Head of State as most of the Commonwealth countries do.
And if we decide to change our flag it could be at that time, or some other time, of our choosing.
And if and when all this comes to pass we may or may not have anything to discuss with the Argentine Government of the day. But you can be assured there will be nothing to negotiate about because you have no locus in this country.
Merry Christmas to all the islanders. Another anniversary in January I believe ... 178 years since British sovereignty was reasserted in 1833.Dec 24th, 2010 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Next year is also the 320th anniversary of John Strong taking posession on behalf of England.Dec 24th, 2010 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@ ed-lessDec 24th, 2010 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Malvinas Islanders have to declare their Independence from
UK Monarchy by using self-determination right
They are using their self determination right to decide thier own future, which seem's they are happy to be a British overseas territory.
.and change their sheepy figured flags...
To what ? One of white with a yellow streak ?
after UN' recognition..we may negotiate with them !
They already have UN recognition & no desire to negotiate with 3rd world monkeys.
Denrich(#)Dec 24th, 2010 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
are you the custodian of Islanders !?
their new flag has yellow-white streak ? it would be convenient !
no need any Penguin or Sheep figures on ..
in Argentina ,no has monkey ..it has cougar !
ed - The UK are the protecters of the Islands, as requested by the Islanders.Dec 24th, 2010 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The Islanders have and exercise their right of self-determination and they don't need to split from the UK monarchy to exercise their democratic rights (same as Canada or Australia).
I wouldn't compare Argentina to with a monkey or a cougar. I think a sloth or a dodo would be more appropriate.
Does the yellow on the Argentina flag represent the colour of your belly?
beef - £-Dec 24th, 2010 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
self-determination and democratic rights are not the same things .
Canada and Australia have limited democratic rights away becouse
they can't elect their Heads of State..their own self determination
rights have not driven yet !
Hi, im very surprised by all the comments here, it seems you all lack of religion or common sence.Dec 24th, 2010 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
First, if you belive in god, you should wish mary christmass for all, not only british. Belive it or not we are all sons of god not only the brits.
Secondly, Argentina had a little war 30 years ago (with a dictatorship in its head) in the whole 20 century , and you acuse us of warmongers?.
Well i wish you all marry christmass, and specially to turks and caicos who share the same status as malvinas (a british colony) and which its elected government was removed this year by her majesty and replaced by a diplomat who control all functions of governments.
@17Dec 24th, 2010 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Merry christmas by the way
The move by London followed the recommendations by a Commission of Inquiry into the government of former premier Michael Misick, who is alleged to have amassed a multi-million-dollar fortune since he was elected in 2003.
The fortune of Argentine presidential couple, President Cristina Kirchner and her immediate predecessor and husband, Nestor Kirchner
jumped 20.6% in 2009 totalling the equivalent of 14.5 million US
dollars, and soared 700% since they first took office in 2003, according to their latest income statements delivered to the country’s Anti Corruption Office.
ED- are you saying that Australia and Canada are NOT Independent!! Last time they had a vote on their constitution the majority of Australians voted to KEEP their current system with the Queen as Head of State - its called democracy when people vote!Dec 24th, 2010 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Like others you clearly have no idea of the difference between and elescted President and a Monarch. one is elected for a period and takes decisions and leads the Country. The other gives advise to the Elected Leader- Prime Ministed and yes - signs the laws - but it would be very very very unlikley for the Monarch not to sign a law.
Its the difference between a written contstitution and an unwritten one that is based on tradition, parliamentary democracy and freedom. Both are equally as good - its just a case of which you prefer - and so far Australia.New Zealand and Canada - and other Independent nations in the Commonwealth have voted for the British version!
Liberato- if you call it little - try that on the families of the breaved on BOTH sides!
All the same though - in the spirit of Christmas - Godd Wishes and Good Will to all on the other side of the water as well.
### Liberato ...... I am atheist !Dec 24th, 2010 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
###Islander .......there are many kinds of Republics like any
French,Italy,Germany and America Continent types and some other..
in France,Italy,Germany the Presidents are symbolic but in
Americas are not ..
Australia's vote can't be interpreted as Democracy becouse it could
be manipulated decision under the suppressive siege !
The people can't make any willpowers at these subjects ..just gimmick !
While Simon Bolivar era were there any plebiscite.?
While French Revolution era were there any plebiscite.?
my advise to Aussies ,first be free from Rio Tinto and some others !
Camerun message to the illegal aliens of Malvinas Argentinas:Dec 24th, 2010 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
There have been attempts to disrupt shipping to the Islands( and there's nothing we can do to stop it)
This year has seen the start of the current round of hydrocarbons exploration in the waters around your Islands. It has been an exciting time. The news has sometimes been encouraging, and yet also sometimes disappointing. While there is no guarantee of commercially viable finds( Not enough oil)
We have had to make some tough decisions – not least to get to grips with the biggest budget deficit since the Second World War and a £38 billion black hole in the future defence plans(In a few words we are broke)
“Of course, hydrocarbons exploration has also meant that relationships in the region have been all the more difficult(This stupid decisiom backfire big time and gain support for Argentina's cause in the America's and around the World)
“It is in all our interests that we maintain a constructive working relationship with Argentina'( So we need to return Malvinas)
“I wish you all a very Happy Christmas and a prosperous? and successful? 2011”.
Firstly I am a Catholic and a Merry Christmas to all.Dec 24th, 2010 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Ed - your post shows us all that you are as thick as Marco. Canada and Australia can choose to remove their head of state (The Queen) if they wish by means of a referendum. I suggest you look up Democracy Index on Wikipredia and you will see that 10 of the world top 20 democracies are Constitutional Monarchies.
I would much rather have the democratic freedom in a Constutional Monarchy than the Flawed Democracy of number 51 on the list.
@22Dec 24th, 2010 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Flawed Democracy of number 51 on the list
Without looking, would that be good old Argentina:-)
Beef -- my family are all Catholic too..I go to church when weddings !Dec 24th, 2010 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
...can choose to remove their head of state ( The Queen)if they wish.....
This is true in theory !..in practice they can't..you can't..
One of the trick mechanism is to give a title(degree) to target men !
remember once that politician David Owen who was regime opponent..
R.Branson...Sony founder...etc have different category !
plus using many Multinational Companies,Banking impacts ..
the Democracy is just subjective concept not objective !!
I wish a happy,succesful,healthy New Year (2011) !
♥MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, MAY GOD BLESS THEIR FAMILIES, OF ALL HEART. ♥ I.Dec 24th, 2010 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Merry Chritmas to all.Dec 24th, 2010 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
In a presidential system of government the head of state and the head of government are the same person, so it is necessary to elect him or her.
In a parliamentary system of government the head of state and the head of government are two different people; the head of state's role is mostly ceremonial, he has few or no powers, and does what the government tells him or her to do. It is not necessary to elect the head of state because the power lies with the head of government, not the head of state.
A parliamentary system can be a constitutional monarchy or a parliamentary republic
Australia, The Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Belize, Bhutan, Cambodia, Canada, Denmark, Grenada, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Liechtenstein, Lesotho, Luxembourg, Malaysia, Monaco, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Norway, Papua New Guinea, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Solomon Islands, Spain, Sweden, Tuvalu, and the United Kingdom.
where the president is elected by parliament
Albania, Bangladesh, Botswana, Czech Republic, Dominica, Estonia, Ethiopia, Federated States of Micronesia, Germany, Greece, Haïti, Hungary, India, Iraq, Israel, Italy, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lebanon, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Mongolia, Nauru, Pakistan, Samoa, Slovakia, South Africa, Surinam, Switzerland, Trinidad and Tobago, Vanuatu
where the president is elected directly
Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, East Timor, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Kiribati, Lithuania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Poland, Portugal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovenia, Turkey.
Think - if you are reading then a Merry Christmas to you and your family. I have enjoyed our debates/discussions this year. I still owe you that beer I promised a while back.Dec 24th, 2010 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Have a great new year!
We should all be grateful for people like ed, marco and their views. It means that neither they nor any of their ilk will ever try to get to Britain. God is good!!Dec 24th, 2010 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
dab14763 ----Dec 24th, 2010 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
your research is true but in the last paragraph (where the president is elected directly) some countries have parliament elected presidents !
not directly ..which ones ? look at again please !
We discuss here ,Democracy--Republic not Parliamentary Regimes !
28 Typhoon ...thanks !
I wish a happy,succesful,healthy New Year (2011) to all of you !
MERRY CHRISTINAS to all of you send mr. impotent Cameron... hohohoho....you are alone and you are the target, tight your belt hohohoDec 24th, 2010 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Ed - If a nation chooses a monarch, then that is in iself democratic.Dec 24th, 2010 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Democracy is the will of the people, and if the will of the people is that they want a queen, it's democratic.
Another bloody nail in the coffin of Brit's on Malvinas Islands that are Argentina.So we need to return Malvinas as part of Tierra del Fuego.Dec 24th, 2010 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
I wish you all a very Happy Christmas and a prosperous 2011.
Usual rubbish from Edcase, MoreCrap, Billious and KisiArg - dream on boys. The islands are British and staying that way. Nothing you can do.Dec 25th, 2010 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
And even though I'm not a Christain, Bhuddist or Muslim ... Merry Christmas :-)
Merry christmas.. and should you try ever take the islands..a bloody new year.Dec 25th, 2010 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
”your research is true but in the last paragraph (where the president is elected directly) some countries have parliament elected presidents !Dec 25th, 2010 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
not directly ..which ones ? look at again please !
Ed, In the second list the president is elected by parliament, and in the the third s/he is elected directly by the population.
We discuss here ,Democracy--Republic not Parliamentary Regimes !”
The second and third list ARE republics. The difference is that the head of government, the person with the power is the prime minister, not the president. The president is mostly a figurehead with very few powers
If you want to read about selfdetermination & democracyDec 25th, 2010 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
For the Kirchners' personalised and capricious rule has exposed the flaws that still haunt Argentinean democracy after this twenty-five-year journey. It is partly a matter of the concentration of power in individuals; partly a lack of talent and of the will to delegate; partly the institutional search for obedience rather than competence in ministers; partly the lack of strong parties, and the preference for movements; partly the arbitrary and arrogant manner in which policy decisions affecting people's lives are taken; partly the opacity and the lack of accountability; partly the lack of debate and intolerance of oppositionDec 25th, 2010 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
38 gdrDec 25th, 2010 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
.....you forgot pesos Argentinos!!! man!!!!
“we have no doubts whatsoever about the United Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”.Dec 25th, 2010 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.
@40Dec 26th, 2010 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
When did Richard Gott become Prime Minister?
or Carlos Escud President
In 1981 the BBC sought to appoint Gott to the position of editor at its cultural magazine The Listener, but his radical politics led to him failing to obtain security clearance and the post went instead to Russell Twisk.Dec 26th, 2010 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Years later, after repeated accusations of being anti-British, he finally resigned as literary editor of the Guardian in 1994 after allegations were made in The Spectator that he had been an agent of influence for the KGB, claims which he rejected, arguing that Like many other journalists, diplomats and politicians, I lunched with Russians during the cold war. He asserted that his resignation was a debt of honour to my paper, not an admission of guilt, because his failure to inform his editor of three trips abroad to meet with KGB officials at their expense had caused embarrassment to the paper during its investigation of Jonathan Aitken. The source of the allegation that he was an agent, KGB defector Oleg Gordievsky. In his resignation letter Gott admitted ”I took red gold, even if it was only in the form of expenses for myself and my partner.
.... CRISTINA KIRCHNERDec 26th, 2010 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
A living metaphor for the fading beauty of Buenos Aires, Cristina Kirchner, Argentina's first elected female president, revived the popular art of Brit-bashing. Known locally as the Botox Evita, the vivacious, designer label-crazed 58-year-old described the Falkland Islands as an illegal colonial enclave and all but threatened to start another war if an oil rig we had sent to the South Atlantic happened to strike lucky. Why so upset? The question was partly answered by a leaked US State Department communiqué suggesting that Cristina may be a few steps short of a tango ...
And so Argentina's profile is raised in the eyes of the British people - good tactics :-)
@41to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.Dec 26th, 2010 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
“we have no doubts whatsoever about the United Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”.
They stole the Falklands and we must return them. Edmund Philip Carlisle . The Dishonourable War: The Falklands, 1982.
Or Edmund Philip Carlisle Prime Minister.
Dishonourable War: The Falklands, 1982Dec 26th, 2010 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The dishonourable war, would that be the war that saw the defeat of the Honorable Junta
A Book with a slightly different angle :-)Dec 26th, 2010 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The Dishonourable War - Falkland Islands 1982
By Capt. E P Carlisle
In 1981, Edmund Carlisle bought a farm in East Falkland.
He was in Stanley on 2nd April 1982, the day Argentina invaded.
He saw at first hand the restrained behaviour of the Argentine Commando which did not fire a shot.
He recognised the actuality for what it was.
In a tiny community, a few individuals had their own agenda: and in London the Prime Minister, with growing domestic problems, was looking for any source of external glory.
About the author:
Educated at Radley College, Edmund Paul Carlisle is descended from a family with strong church, military and political connections.
He joined the Life Guards as a volunteer in 1941, was commission in the Indian Army in 1942 and retired in 1946.
Since then he has spent his life as a farmer in Staffordshire , Radnorshire , Pembrokshire, Malawi, Breconshire and the Falkland Islands, covering the period of the conflict.
He also served in the Shropshire Yeomanry T.A. as County Commissioner of Radnorshire Scouts and as Chairman of Brecon and Radnor Country Landowners Association.
He champions our liberties against the ever increasing laws and bureaucratic regulations emanating from Brussels and our nanny state which are rapidly transforming this once free country into a police state.
Does sound as a nice chap.............
Carlisle's family have had a long association with Argentina since his great-grandfather established a merchant house, Carlisle's Ltd in Buenos Aires in 1830 and they traded in South America until his father closed the business in 1960 when the great Lancashire cotton trade virtually came to an end. His cousin, Bruce Carlisle was managing director of Brooke Bond Liebigs Co. Ltd in Buenos Aires.Dec 26th, 2010 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
They returned to London representing 100,000 Anglo-Argentineans, one week after invasion, to persuade the British Government to reach a non-military and diplomatic solution
Just thought I'd post the rest of it for you, Think.
He's entitled to his opinion.
Most farms now get sold to people who either are, or demonstrate that they intend to become, long- term Falkland Islanders. Good thing too; absentee landlords and toff gentlemen farmers are a bit too much in the colonial line, don't you think?
So what happened to him then, it's not like there aren't large farms still owned by private individuals in the Falklands, perhaps the natives became a bit too uppity for his taste.....Dec 26th, 2010 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Prime Minister, with growing domestic problems, was looking for any source of external glory”.Dec 26th, 2010 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Undoubtedly the invasion was, at least in large measure, a diversionary tactic by the unpopular military junta headed by General Leopoldo Galtieri. At the time, Argentina was suffering severe economic problems and serious civil unrest. Because the islands are 8,000 miles from the United Kingdom, the junta gambled that the British would be unwilling or incapable of retaking them
(47) Monty69Dec 26th, 2010 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
As the title of my post no. (46) says:
”A Book with a slightly different angle”……………………….
Than the recalcitrant, self-centered, xenophobic squidocracy that rules the Islands nowadays.
Besides……. Captain Carlisle, his family and the 100.000 Anglo Argentines he represented are the best proof that most of the nonsense you love to believe and reiterate about Argentina and Argentines is no more than that…… Nonsense.
I can’t see the traditional FIC colonial way of absentee Landlords and toff gentlemen farmers being over in Malvinas.
It's just being complemented by absentee Oillords and toff businessmen getting much better terms on their oil deals than they ever could dream, even in places like Uganda or Turkmenistan.
He saw at first hand the restrained behaviour of the Argentine Commando which did not fire a shotDec 26th, 2010 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Around 0610 hrs the first firing was heard as the Buzo Tactico attacked the barracks at Moody Brook. The attack was ferocious, combining submachine guns with fragmentation and phosphorous grenades, hoping to catch the Marines in bed, showing that later claims of attempts to spare British lives were completely false. If the barracks had not been already deserted, many men would likely have died. With the buildings at Moody Brook ablaze, the Argentine troops moved on toward Stanley.
xenophobicDec 26th, 2010 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Pot to kettle over
The unrest has highlighted deep-seated social problems, such as xenophobia and racism. Argentina is largely European in ancestry, especially among the landed gentry and in business. The poorer people of the interior, and neighboring countries such as Bolivia and Paraguay, are often called 'cabecitas negras' (black heads) in allusion to their black hair and Amerindian physiogomy. Bolivian President Evo Morales appealed to Bolivians to cease their squatting, saying that if they want land they should return home. Argentine Foreign Minister Hector Timerman has met his Bolivian counterpart to discuss the matter. Ethnic and economic inequalities, coupled with ineffective governance, are issues the country appears heretofore reluctant to confront.
I would choose CFK over Cameron anyday. Give me her populism and passion over the dull, robotic droning of Cameron, Clegg, and Ed. The three leaders of the main parties in the UK are identical. In UK elections you get to vote for three flavours of the same neo-liberal crap. Britain needs someone like CFK or Lula desperately, as the student protests showed, a vast number of people have been ignored by the upper middle class clique which rules politics and media.Dec 26th, 2010 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The Telegraph, which is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the rich, the hedge fund managers and the bankers, as usual reveals its racism and class hatred. Let's not forget that the Argentines, (unlike the weak Irish who have sold their sovereignty and dignity to the EU and IMF), rebuilt their own country. Cameron wasted £7 billion bailing out British and Irish banks while fatuously pretending to be helping Ireland.
The Wikileaks cable regarding the Falklands is utter fantasy, a further illustration of America's ignorance of Latin America. CFK is emphatically not a warmonger and has never even come close to threatening war, and I admire her for committing her country to diplomatic approach to Malvinas/Falklands, something which some on here mock, but for which I commend her. Llet's remind ourselves that it Kissinger and Reagan loved the Videla/Galtieri dictatorship, and Kissinger urged Videla to kill as many people as possible. The Argentine invasion of the Falklands was ultimately caused by US foreign policy, the country whose arse Cameron licks so obediently.
CFK has a personality and beliefs, whereas Cameron believes in nothing except his own advancement, a pompous toff who does whatever the bankers tell him, so he can land a cushty boardroom job at a fat bank.
Cameron does not holler and hoot because he has no soul; his visage, Charlie Brooker observed, resembles a CG figure model with textures mapped onto his face. The only emotion he projects is smugness.
Thanks for the fresh air Suguler :-)))Dec 26th, 2010 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
51 ThinkDec 26th, 2010 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
'recalcitrant'.....'obstinately defiant of authority or restraint'....entirely inaccurate, Think. We're defiant of your authority because you have none. We have our own government and laws which restrain us just fine, thanks.
'xenophobic'??? Do we really have to go through all this again?
'The nonsense you love to believe and reiterate about Argentina and Argentines'
Just what do you imagine this to be, Think? I don't believe anything at all about Argentines, except that I'd like them to leave us alone. those 100,00 Anglo- Argentines chose to be Argentines. I didn't.
'squidocracy that rules the Islands nowadays.'
I thought you said the governor and the UK government ruled the islands? What would you prefer? A communist state maybe? And who do you think rules Argentina?
'It's just being complemented by absentee Oillords and toff businessmen getting much better terms on their oil deals than they ever could dream, even in places like Uganda or Turkmenistan.'
Is that why it's taken ten years since the last round of oil exploration? And where do you think we'd get the money to do our own oil exploration? Is that how it works in Argentina?
Sorry Think, but I think you must have been at the Christmas sherry!
and I admire her for committing her country to diplomatic approach to Malvinas/Falklands, something which some on here mock,Dec 26th, 2010 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Her approach to the Falklands is mocked because it is palpably NOT diplomatic.
If you want fresh air why don't you visit your beloved Malvinas Think? Better than breathing BA smog any day. You'll even get a nice 'Falkland Islands' stamp in your passport.
The Argentine invasion of the Falklands was ultimately caused by US foreign policy, the country whose arse Cameron licks so obediently.Dec 26th, 2010 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Nothing to do with the Junta wishing to distract the Argies from severe economic problems and serious civil unrest
(56) Monty69Dec 26th, 2010 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
My dear Southern Seas pearl…………….
I’m investing a lot of time on you...… but, what the heck….… you Islanders deserve it :-)
Xenophobic yes………. You people are afraid of strangers…….. You have implemented one of the most restrictive immigration legislation on Earth ….. You want to protect your Paradise……… You want to protect your way of life, your society…..…. You are afraid of losing your economic and social privileges to strangers…... You can not take care of all the poor and destitute of the word…… Nothing wrong with that! Right?..... You are realists, not racists…….
Yes…………, you are xenophobic.
Squidocracy yes….. Their Nation is “Money” and their “Alma Mater” is London City.
By the way, I never, ever mentioned the Governor with his feathers, nor the Queen with her Crown…. I just made it very clear that, in our humble opinion, the FIG is no more than a FIGleaf covering that old furrowed furry British dxxx.
And now, if you excuse me, I will pour myself a glass of excellent Chilean Rothschild Cabernet-Carmenere and enjoy the rest of my evening……………..
Xenophobic yes………. You people are afraid of strangersDec 26th, 2010 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
And the Argies take care of their own
Argentina's indigenous peoples face struggles concerning fundamental issues of survival, maintenance of cultural and linguistic integrity, land rights and bilingual education. Furthermore, the small, impoverished, socially maligned population must fight for mere recognition. Recent estimates of the indigenous population in Argentina vary widely from 450,000 to 1.5 million, approximately one to four per cent of the total Argentine population of approximately 36 million. These differing figures expose the lack of adequate census data on indigenous peoples, and make it difficult to gauge their civic and political participation. The last census of indigenous peoples was taken between 1965 and 1968.
Cristina KirchnerDec 27th, 2010 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
the face that launched a hundred ships, to keep the british at bay,
but when they got there and saw the brits / they turned and ran away ?
her looks will turn and fade one day,
and then argentina will go away,
as 2010 slowly fades and 2011 arrives,
and a new dawn finaly lands,
the argentines will have to admit, they lost the falklands,
the british are here for ever a day,
now please argentina go away and play,
happy new year to all in the south atlantic,
Cabernet-CarmenereDec 27th, 2010 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
What's so excellent about a blend?
we all knew you were ignorant think but I had no idea you were such a philistine as to think that a blend could be 'excellent'
I occasioinally get despondent about how things are going, but now some prick is espousing the views of E P Carlisle, and I know if that is the best you can do all is well.Dec 27th, 2010 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Carlisle, like Montgomery, are ancient Tories trying to regain some empire in foreign lands, and are morally and intellectually bankrupt. To all our enemies, please love and laud Carlisle and Montgomery, and we will know you are all bonkers.
#46 - the fella's also a well known eccentric! And with ties to Argentina .... hardly an independent.Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
#54 Suguler - you want her, you keep her. Rather have our lot anyday. There may be no passion, but who the hell wants a passionate politician. They are a pain in the rear as it is, without being excessively enthusiastic or even more full of cr*p.
Good morning all, a nice 27th ... islands still British? Yes! Wonderful, and all's well in the world :-)
@ “we have no doubts whatsoever about the United Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”.Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.►►►
They do not like Richard Gott
They do not like Capt. Edmund Carlisle
And Sir Malcom Robertson???..
Letter from Ambassador Sir Malcolm Robertson a Sir Ronald Lindsay (1928)
”With regard to the Falkland Islands, I have always thought, since I read the memorandum from the Foreign Office Bernhardt December 1910, that our claim to the islands is very weak indeed. Actually it is based on force and little else . This view seems to have been maintained by successive British governments since the days of Lord Palmerston, because they have made efforts to prevent the truth being proclaimed. I realize that the islands are of vital strategic value to us and we can not give up them, no matter how fair or unfair that may be our position. All I want is to continue the policy of previous governments and remain silent. I do not think that the Argentine government this issue seriously unless you force them out of resentment to their regular and periodic reinforcement stitches of your claim. (...) We maintain our demand to maintain the occupation, which is far stronger than a number of notes that can only lead to unpleasant disputes and may eventually lead to the Argentine government the suggestion of referring the whole matter to the International Court of Justice in The Hague.
”They do not like Richard GottDec 27th, 2010 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
They do not like Capt. Edmund Carlisle
And Sir Malcom Robertson???..
Letter from Ambassador Sir Malcolm Robertson a Sir Ronald Lindsay (1928)......”
Are you for real Mal or is this a wind-up? You're quoting what Sir Pompous Windbag wrote in 1928 like it has any bearing on anything now?
If I cared a damn what any of these people thought I probably wouldn't like them. That is if any of them are even still alive.
Actually I think that the honourable Sir Bingley Fortescue Founteroy-Crapp VII (bart) (1817-1901, RIP) among others had some very pertinant things to say about the Falklands so you shouldn't be so dismissive Monty69.Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-472183/Retired-captain-sues-police-stopped-saving-heirlooms-blaze.htmlDec 27th, 2010 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Is this the real Captain Edmund Carlisle? I do hope so. I wish you could post photos on here! Would you buy a used heifer from this man? Mr M and I have laughed till we cried over this one.
Come back, Captain Ed, this country needs you, with or without your family heirlooms.
Marvin, still relying on old text books containing the views of obscure politicians or civil servants, many of which cannot be substantiated and which casts doubt on the author's sources ?Dec 27th, 2010 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Their opinions are old, and unimportant. What is important is current thinking and the British Prime Minister has made that very clear.
Keeping your hopes up with uninformed opinion is likely to prove frustrating!
Try and keep up laddie !
“we have no doubts whatsoever about the United Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”. Slogan british, propaganda british.Dec 27th, 2010 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.►►►
because they have made efforts to prevent the truth being proclaimed.
”porque han realizado esfuerzos para evitar que la verdad sea proclamada
The truth is out there Marvin, but it's not Argentina's version !Dec 27th, 2010 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
They do not like Richard GottDec 27th, 2010 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
What the spy,well if you mean most of the 292 comments, you are right for once.
I think I am one of the 'self-loathing left' and 'pathetic europhiles' that MarkBin describes, although I would never have thought to label myself as such, however I was delighted to read all of the comments posted on this thread
I, for one, salute Richard Gott. His article is actually very clever in that it is so one-sided, he has managed to unite seemingly all readers against it. No petty name-calling or arguments among different posters here. Everyone is focussed on the paucity of balance in the original article.
Well done Richard, I look forward to laughing at your next article.
Come on Guardian, treat us like intelligent adults. This kind of lame-brained reasoning wouldn't fool a toddler. As pointed out by so many, Argentina is itself a colony and so its claims are tenuous at best. Proximity is not a good claim - in this case, perhaps France should claim Britain as its own. It's an island considerably closer to France than the Falklands are to Argentina, and France's historical claims are much stronger than those of Argentina to the Falklands. I'm sure Richard Gott is standing in Dover waving the white flag already
(68) Monty69Dec 27th, 2010 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Well…… I woldn’t buy an “used heifer” from nobody but….
Looking at the old chap’s picture on your daily mail link
He looks pretty straight and fit for an 85 years old man to be.
Would you care to point out some of the details that make him untrustworthy?
Is it his distinctive British face?
Or the emblematic British attire?
Maybe that British regimental tie?
Perhaps, all three of them :-)
@73 Think, just quietly l'd say hes lost his marbles.too many sundowners on the verandah, either that or hes an old man trying to get into heaven.Dec 27th, 2010 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@54 Suguler, this may all be so, but don't try to give OUR Falklands away simply because you've got thehotsfor La Princesa Christina.
just because you believe Cameron to be a simpering idiot(& he may well be)that doesn't make the Argentine claim any stronger. in a nutshell, we will never give up. these are OUR islands.
(74) C’mon Cher IsoldeDec 27th, 2010 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
You surely enjoyed your ethylic dose at that tropical verandah too….
And no harm seems to be done, besides your fixation about keeping some stolen Islands.
This type of characters, with all their faults, are the ones that once, made Britain Great.
And remember that Captain Carlisle wrote that Malvinas book in the prime of his age.
Denigrating and laughing at him now only speaks badly about the ones who do.
You're forgetting one crucial point in your euology of Captain Carlisle Think. He's an Argie lover, no matter how great he appears to be in other ways that trumps it for us, no way we'll trust or venerate anyone who throws in his lot with you corrupt, neo-colonial scum.Dec 27th, 2010 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
TWIMC :-)Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Communists,... bloody-liberals,... ancient-tories,... guardianists,... spies,... fakes and liars,... kelper-traitors,... argie-lovers...
So many denominations against any Anglo that contradicts the ruling dogma of that ”tiny community were a few individuals had their own agenda” as Captain Carlisle puts it..
Well I'm a member of that tiny comunity whose existance is so arrogantly bandied about by the likes of Captain Carlisle. It's easy to come up with grand scemes and convoluted musings when it's not your future that's being discussed think, for you as for anyone who isn't a Falkland Islander it's all academic, for us it's real and when it comes to people making arrogant statement and theorys about our existance I'm certainly guilty of being intransigent, bloody-minded and uncompromising with them. Who the hell is Captain Carlisle (et al) to think he can define my future, and for that matter who the hell are you to do so?Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
TWIMC of course.
... keeping some stolen Islands...Dec 27th, 2010 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Nasty allegation that Think ..... can you prove it?
And please don't offer me the opinions of biased eccentrics. Proof ... the sort of stuff used in a court .... the ICJ for example :-)
Communists,... bloody-liberals,... ancient-tories,... guardianists,... spies,... fakes and liars,... kelper-traitors,... argie-loversDec 27th, 2010 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
If you sleep with dogs you get flea's
In 1981 the BBC sought to appoint Gott to the position of editor at its cultural magazine The Listener, but his radical politics led to him failing to obtain security clearance and the post went instead to Russell Twisk.
Years later, after repeated accusations of being anti-British, he finally resigned as literary editor of the Guardian in 1994 after allegations were made in The Spectator that he had been an agent of influence for the KGB, claims which he rejected, arguing that Like many other journalists, diplomats and politicians, I lunched with Russians during the cold war. He asserted that his resignation was a debt of honour to my paper, not an admission of guilt, because his failure to inform his editor of three trips abroad to meet with KGB officials at their expense had caused embarrassment to the paper during its investigation of Jonathan Aitken. The source of the allegation that he was an agent, KGB defector Oleg Gordievsky. In his resignation letter Gott admitted ”I took red gold, even if it was only in the form of expenses for myself and my partner. That, in the circumstances, was culpable stupidity
I'm not laughing at Captain Carlisle, Think. I'll be very happy if I can still smack a helpful policeman round the head with both walking sticks at the age of 85.Dec 27th, 2010 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
I'm just chuckling to myself that this seems to be the best you can come up with, and it isn't very impressive, is it? So there are some people out there who once lived here, or visited here, or neither, who don't much care for the place.It's hardly earth shattering news, is it? And it doesn't affect our position one way or the other.
(78) WestisBestDec 27th, 2010 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
I must admit that I’m a little tired of your direct insults. There is hardly a profanity in the dictionary you haven’t used against me.
However, in this post you keep them to a minimum so I will answer you.
“Who the hell is Captain Carlisle to think he can define my future, and for that matter who the hell are you to do so?”
In 1981 Captain Carlisle had more right than you to define the future or buy property in the Islands….. He was a First Class British Citizen… You were not…
In 2010, he is still a First Class British Citizen who’s taxed his share of the 700 million £ that Britain devotes every year to the Islands thievence…..
Regarding me……. I am a citizen of Argentina, Country that, during the last 177 years, has protested the British occupation on the South Atlantic and that has been strongly provoked by the blossoming of British and Islander haughtiness since the Oil Drilling began….
In due time, Lad…. In due time…..
You must never try to rush the judicial system….. You know that!
In the mean time we continue pulling all the other diplomatic and economic strings available….
That was better….. ……….
Respect your elders… and feel free to laugh about me as much as you wish.
I won’t … Not even if we win…
I would much rather prefer that you Islanders had accepted to consider any of the dozens of very convenient political and economical solutions that we have submitted to you.
Be kind not to bring up that mith of “ethnic cleansing”, “destruction of our way of life” or similar… you are intelligent enough to know what I’m talking about…….
Sadly you let that London induced brainwashed haughtiness prevail and gambled on the “Well Known Fact” that those stupid Argies from across the water can’t even organize a Picnic….
Well…… We are organizing one.......ants, horseflies an fantasyllions of earwigs included :-(
In 1981 Captain Carlisle had more right than you to define the future or buy property in the Islands….. He was a First Class British Citizen… You were notDec 27th, 2010 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Argentina's indigenous peoples face struggles concerning fundamental issues of survival, maintenance of cultural and linguistic integrity, land rights and bilingual education. Furthermore, the small, impoverished, socially maligned population must fight for mere recognition.
@71 Red, The truth is out there Marvin, but it's not Argentina's version ! “because they have made efforts to avoid the truth to be proclaimed.” Robertson.Dec 27th, 2010 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@72 Stick, You forget something: France never claimed sovereignty over the UK. At least not during the last 700 years. France does not claim the Malvinas. France's first occupant, gave the islands to its rightful owner: Spain. Count Francois of Bougainville, the direct heir of the first navigator who colonized the Malvinas wrote a sentence in the Anglo-Argentine war of 1982 which emphasizes the indisputable right of Spanish and Argentine Islands. preserve as an treasure documents proving as Luis de Bougainville, back in 1767, by order of French King Louis XV, the Falkland Islands to the Spanish Crown, recognizing that rightfully belonged to him, as now belong to Argentina. Understand also to Argentina.
to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.►►►
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBlYCCnh-IIDec 27th, 2010 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
In Argentina, during a raid of the Toba community in Formosa by at least 100 members of the provincial police, several members of the community, including one pregnant woman, were beaten and racially abused. Several others, including a 74-year old man, were detained and ill-treated and humiliated while in custody.
Marvin, your whole case rests on Argentina inheriting the islands from Spain, either under a deal done between the British and Spanish Crowns in 1771 which neither you nor anyone else can prove, or under Uti Possedetis Juris which was not an internationally recognised concept until the 20th Century.Dec 27th, 2010 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Either which way your claim fails!
Think ... pulling strings only works if there's a fish on the end ;-)
Think 82- Is it a new year one with picana avestruz a la piedra? Now there is indeed a splendid feast, those summer Patagonian evenings washed down with a good wine will always be remembered. Wild Osterich rump cooked slowly Indian style with baking hot stones put inside it and sealed up with a spicey sauce.Dec 27th, 2010 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Ed Carlisle?- Now there is a nasty piece of work - not surprising he was a chum of the irish-argentine Captain who ran around here sticking gunbarrels into innocent civilians midriffs - and of course fled back Argentina before the surrender. Of course he was and is pro-Argentine - he had/has business interests there and did not like the Islands anyway- mutual. Still he is entitled to his views.
There is the big difference- in general our side respects differing views. Not so over there - look what happens to newspapers that dare to offer different views - let alone actaully criticise!
Also I thought we,d buried that silly £700million a year figure ages ago - we both know that,s a crazy one
But hell, anyway- its camp Christmas-New year whichever side of the pond we are- so enjoy yours ,as I will some lamb and young wild goose legs over here.
I must admit that I’m a little tired of your direct insultsDec 28th, 2010 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Glad I'm making an impression think. I aim to please (not to please you and yours mind).
@75 Think. not so much laughing at him, as disgusted by the silly old fool. he loves Argentina because he has/had business interests there and doesn't want to upset your govt and taxation department, also they could be confiscated if he came out on our side.Dec 28th, 2010 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
as for aidee fixe with some stolen islandswere you talking about how you stole TDF from Chile?
l don't care what you protested or for how long. you were deluding yourselves. you don't own the Falklands and never did. ge' awa wi ye, and as for haughtiness, well you shower have got a damn thick hide. continually claiming someone else's land. AND by the way, its our oil and if want to extract it we will. its got absolutely nuzzing to do with you.
(87) Some nice Islander1 character assassination……..Dec 28th, 2010 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
”Ed Carlisle?- Now there is a nasty piece of work - not surprising he was a chum of the irish-argentine Captain who ran around here sticking gunbarrels into innocent civilians midriffs - and of course fled back Argentina before the surrender”………………
What do you mean precisely with ”he was a chum” ?
Did they have a “smoko” together ?
Or did they both drive round Stanley in a limousine kidnapping small blond freckled ponytailed innocent girls ?
”Look what happens to newspapers that dare to offer different views - let alone actually criticize!”
Well….. I’m looking I’m looking……..
I don’t see any newspaper being closed, censured, fined, sued or harrassed…
I don’t see any journalist being killed, kidnapped, threatened, arrested, fined, sued or otherwise intimidated.
“La Nacion”, “La Prensa” and “The Buenos Aires Herald” are fiercely opposed to the Government but the have no problems whatsoever……
The Lady that owns ”El Clarin” newspaper has a little problem though……
Some 30 years ago she took a pair of babies as a ”housewarming present” from the dictator in turn.
The real parents of those babies are still ”unavailable to comment”.
The real grandmothers of those babies want to know…………..
Is that the “attack to the free press” you are referring to?
You shouldn’t have mentioned wild geese legs……I got a craving now.
You just provoked the untimely death of a pair of avutardas…..Tomorrow.
@ Red, Tell that to his countrymen, who studied the case and know that the British position is untenable. You criticize actions Argentine and Spanish over 60years, but of course, a few years in Port Egmont, and a lead shield on earth for you is enough. 1771 British defeat. Recognition of Spanish sovereignty. I told you where to look. In this part of the continent, neither the South Pacific, neither South Atlantic British colonies there, only in the Malvinas. Use logic.Dec 28th, 2010 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
“because they have made efforts to avoid the truth to be proclaimed.” Robertson.
to Cameron is going to grow your nose, like Pinocchio's nose.►►►
Marvin, all you've shown me is the Spanish declaration. I've pointed you towards the British counter declaration.Dec 28th, 2010 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
1771 was a British diplomatic victory. The British were thrown off the islands. The British threatened war. The British went back to the islands. Amazing how you can consider that a Spanish victory :-)
There was no secret agreement and neither you, your Government not the Spanish have ever proved that there was such an agreement. No proof = no agreement !
Therefore the parties to the dispute were only Britain and Spain. Uti Possedetis Juris was not applicable in 1833. Britain reasserted its authority, Spain never went back. Case closed.
I am not interested in the obscure opinions of writers with books to sell, eccentrics, or politicians regardless of which country they originate from.
I'm only interested in the evidence.
The British Government states quite clearly that it has no doubt about its sovereignty - so what do YOU think they base that statement upon?
(92) HoytDec 28th, 2010 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
” -The British Government states quite clearly that it has no doubt about its sovereignty - so what do YOU think they base that statement upon? -”
Force, dishonesty and haughtiness…………………………
Think,Dec 28th, 2010 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
The strongest case of all is the right of selfdetermination of the people- as specified in the UN Charter, as given to the people of Kosovo and others in recent years.
That principle counts far far more in the 21st century than any dubiuously based historical claim especially one that is backed up by economic blackmail.
Press interference - I recall newsprint supply activities recently.
Subtle Means of Censorship ,The think way,no?Dec 28th, 2010 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
As time goes by and democracies are consolidated, the mechanisms of pressure on the press have also become more sophisticated, which is why people talk about indirect, subtle censorship,” Roberto Saba, the executive director of Argentina's Association for Civil Rights (ADC), told IPS.
Islander1Dec 28th, 2010 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Self determination ……:
Would be an Issue if you were not “implanted”…..
But you are....... as “implanted” as Pamela Anderson.
Just have a look at the little siliconized little Britain around you....
You ”recall newsprint supply activities recently”
Referring to the ”Papel Prensa” issue, I presume?
Try to inform yourself about that story before showing again a high degree of brainwash…
It’s even more ”juicy” than the one with the babies….
Would be an Issue if you were not “implanted”…..Dec 28th, 2010 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
But you are....... as “implanted” as Pamela Anderson.
Just have a look at the little “siliconized” little Britain around you....
we are what we are think, you can whine about us being 'implanted' as much as you like but at the end of the day we are a more established population than your precious, utopian Argentina. Perhaps we don't tick your self-determination boxes...well guess what? that's just too bad.
Argentina's indigenous people,must, using Thinks logic see the Spanish,Italians and all other Johnny-come-lately as implanted.Dec 28th, 2010 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
(87) and (90) Islander1Dec 28th, 2010 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Bonkers…. Not a freaking Avutarda in sight…...
Will have to settle for an early Patagonian brunch consisting of canned tomatoes, a can of sardines and loads of condensed milk on my Nescafe…..
99- bad luck! Nice hot sunny day over here as well, can imagine the smell coming from them sizzling over matta or diddledee!Dec 28th, 2010 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
No more implanted here than you and your ancestors are over there - come on - you can do better.
Islander; you are an implanted society since the day you freeze your ethnic demography by your colonial inmigration laws.Dec 28th, 2010 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Open the gates & interact with the region and nobody will tell you that you are implanted.
Yeah right Billy, is interact with the region a euphemism for 'give Argentina effective sovereignty of the Falklands'?Dec 28th, 2010 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Nice try, Billy, but complete bollocks.Dec 28th, 2010 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Can I refer you to the results of the last census?
You will see that immigration from Chile, St Helena and other countries is some way greater than immigration from the UK.
Monty, the numbers of the census only confirms my point, txs.Dec 28th, 2010 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
No Westis; interact with the region means to disable the dispute by assuming the kelpers the command of reality by excersising selfdetermination...in other words....kick your colonial masters ass and return them to the winter.
Still failing to see your point Billy.Dec 28th, 2010 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
600 Falkland Islanders out of a population of 3000 have Chilean or St Helenian origins. How is this a 'frozen ethnic demography'?
Monty, some numbers in this obvious situationDec 28th, 2010 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
*TdF population +-100.000 people....Mlv population 2500
* Over 42millons argentines living in the world only +- 10 argentines living in Malvinas.
My friend, the demographics in Malvinas are the product of british colonialism and its guarantee.
@106Dec 28th, 2010 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
What a modern perfect melting pot you have in Argentina
Police in Argentina sealed off the Villa Soldati area of Buenos Aires Dec. 14 following a week of violence between squatters, authorities and local residents in which at least three have been killed. Some 1,000 people, mostly of Bolivian and Paraguayan origin, had pitched tents in the local Indoamericano Park after being evicted from a shantytown. A Paraguayan and a Bolivian were killed Dec. 7 when city police, executing a court order secured by the Buenos Aires municipal government, attempted to remove the squatters. Two days later, clashes between residents and the okupas, as the squatters are known, resulted in the death of another Bolivian. Four men are still in the hospital. Prosecutors in Buenos Aires are investigating the clashes
@92 Red, = Think, Force, dishonesty and haughtiness.Dec 28th, 2010 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
You criticize actions Argentine and Spanish over 60years, but of course, a few years in Port Egmont, and a lead shield on land for you is enough. 1771 British defeat. Recognition of Spanish sovereignty. I told you where to look. In this part of the continent, neither the South Pacific, neither South Atlantic British colonies there, only in the Malvinas. Use logic.
I regret that considers obscure the history of the English Parliament. Explain the great British victory, then why the Earl of Weymouth resigned, barely knew the agreement?
Cameron► is a liar: “we have no doubts whatsoever about the United Kingdom’s sovereignty over the Falkland Islands”. Slogan british, propaganda british.
They do not like Richard Gott
They do not like Capt. Edmund Carlisle
They do not like Sir Malcom Robertson
Troutbeck 1.936: The Difficulty of the position is that our sizure of the Falklands islands in 1.833 was so arbitrary a procedure as judged by the ideology of the present day.
It is therefore not easy to explain our possession without showing ourselves up as INTERNATIONAL BANDITS.
106 Billy HayesDec 28th, 2010 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Silly me! I should have realised that you were talking about Argentines living in the Falkland Islands.
What I suggest you do, and advise all your friends likewise, is subscribe to the Penguin News and apply for jobs as they are advertised. Then you get interviewed, and then you get a work permit if someone wants to employ you.
That's how all the Chileans and St Helenians got here.
An extra tot of Christmas whisky is on offer for any of you who spot the obvious stumbling block in this advice.
-Troutbeck 1.936: “ The Difficulty of the position is that our sizure of the Falklands islands in 1.833 was so arbitrary a procedure as judged by the ideology of the present day.Dec 28th, 2010 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
It is therefore not easy to explain our possession without showing ourselves up as INTERNATIONAL BANDITS.”-
Present day meaning 1936 not 1833. And since Spain never complained, it doesn't matter anyway.
And Malvi. A person's opinion is only as good as the evidence it is based on. Since you don't post the evidence Troutbeck and others based their opinions on, we can safely assume that their opinions are worthless.
Monty, look these numbers from the other main archipielago of south atlantic and then compare them with kelper census...the difference is at kelpers cost because more population more money, less population more political manipulation, in this case from UK and ultracon kelpers.Dec 28th, 2010 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
You're in a dream world, Billy. No-one is manipulating us. I know you'd like to believe that there is a silent majority of Falkland Islanders just longing to become Argentines, but it just ain't so. This was a fundamental misunderstanding on your part in 1982 and you're still doing it.Dec 28th, 2010 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
In fact you're making it worse day by day. What you are creating is a whole new generation of children, some of whose parents weren't even born in 1982, who have nightmares about you and really hate you just because they can't get their favourite kind of chocolate milk any more. Nice one. And is it going to get you what you want? I think we all know the answer to that one.
And don't tell us we need more people. We know. And how we do it without ruining ourselves is our concern, not yours.
#93 I say:Dec 29th, 2010 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Force, dishonesty and haughtiness…………………………
Still making allegations that you cannot prove Think? Take it to the ICJ :-)
Marvin, I've made it as simple as I can - Spain threw the British off. Britain threatened war. The British returned. No that's a victory for Britain, and you can delude yourself as much as you like but there's no getting away from the facts that you cannot prove that there was any secret agreement and therefore any court would have to take it that there was not. Proof laddie, not opinion, nothing circumstantial - show me the document where this 'agreement' was recorded. Without that, you're lost!
Your collection of obscure opinions carry no weight. Proof laddie.
you are right monty, uk don´t manipulate you, they command you, for example London choose your gobernor, your chief executive, write your constitution, and manage your foreign relations according to their interest; keep the good fight monty and keep running like a hamster in south atlantic vicious circle; selfdetermination?? where is it if you don´t command your country?Dec 29th, 2010 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@ 110 Dab, These are the conclusions of the Foreign Office officials who studied the case. Their opinions are worthless.???Dec 29th, 2010 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Dab, I'm in internet, I can not show anything, maybe in a vacation.
@ Red, show me the document where this 'agreement' was recorded
There you have it, it shows Pepper, the Spanish king in HIS STATEMENT made an express reservation of sovereignty, to safeguard its right above. Not so, the English king.
The RESTITUTION of the PORT and FORT EGMONT was demanded and granted as COMPENSATION for the INJURY to the BRITISH FLAG. It mentions only the restitution of the Port and Fort Egmont.
repeat: I regret that considers obscure the history of the English Parliament. Explain the great British victory, then why the Earl of Weymouth resigned, barely know the agreement?
Why were withdrawn after the victory?
Why Spanish ruled the island after the british victory?
Cameron► is a liar.
“because they have made efforts to avoid the truth to be proclaimed.” Robertson.
MarvinDec 29th, 2010 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
1. The Spanish King's statement makes no mention of any agreement for the British to leave.
2. The British garrison was withdrawn 4 years later for cost reasons. Viscount Palmerston identified this in his 1834 response to Moreno.
And the supposed secret agreement was for the British to leave in 2 months............. strange that Spain did not object us being so late in going !!
3. The Spanish stayed for a while longer. The British did not object and the sovereignty question remained unanswered. From Pascoe & Pepper - ... A reading of the original texts confirms that both countries’ rights were reserved....
4. What you think the Earl of Weymouth has to do with it is beyond me?
5. ... I regret that considers obscure the history of the English .... etc, etc something must be lost in translation because I have no idea what you are refering to.
Viscount Palmerston's letter is very clear. What can be deduced from it is that Moreno ONLY based his objection to the British action of 1833 on the supposed 'secret' agreement. He made no mention of 'Nootka Sound', nor 'Uti Possedetis Juris'. Moreno ONLY objected because he believed that the British had acted contary to an agreement in 1771.
Viscount Palmerston in his reply quite clearly deals with that myth. Now I don't need anyone else's opinion as I can form my own on reading the letter.
There was no agreement in 1771 and no evidence of one exists. Please note that in this area the Spanish Government has not leapt to your defence by producing any evidence.
@106 Billy Hayes, so what do you want us to do senor Beel? open the floodgates @ let 10,000 of yourimplantedcountrymen emigrate here so that they can outnumber us & vote to join Argentina? really?how silly of us not to want them.Dec 29th, 2010 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@108 Malvinense, so what if Cameron is a liar(only you have said so, so far)he might be, it doesn't alter the fact that these are OUR islands, not yours.
@111 Billy Hayes, listen to Monty69 @112, Bill. she is speaking the truth(as Axel says whether you like it or not).& Bill@114, they don't command us. even if they did, what business is it of yours? are you our saviours? so nice that someone is thinking of our wellbeing! but we don't need you to worry about us thanks.
(112) Monty69Dec 29th, 2010 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
The fundamental mistake Billy Hayes keeps making is to consider you squatters as a population.
You are not a population……You are what you always have been; employees of a “Company”
Falkland Islands Company, Absentee Landlords, Great Britain; the “Company” has many names……..but no legal title besides military force.
You are NOT being manipulated….No need for that…..You are being paid.
If you can’t afford to buy your kids their favorite Chocolate milk, I suggest that you contact your “Company” and negotiate some better working conditions.
But I suppose that it is better to teach them to hate Argentina.
They are “Company” kids after all………….
@118Think, how wrong you are senor, you first generation Patagonian squatter. if we're being paid maybe we are mercenaries (7th & 8th generation ones!). even if it were so what you say, so what? its NOT your land, its OURS.Dec 29th, 2010 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
(119) IsoldeDec 29th, 2010 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
It’ s ours… No, it’s ours….… No, no it’s ours….… No, no, no it’s ours….… No, no, no, no it’s ours….…
Well…..at least its better argument than Monty69’s………….
I HATE when women use the kids…..
@!20Dec 29th, 2010 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
But you wont go to the divorce court (ICJ) Think, and get it over with
@120Dec 29th, 2010 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
the argument is pertinant though think, you don't like it because it makes you uncomfortable, well tough shit mate, it's your governments policy that's creating the resentment that Monty refers to.
'I HATE when women use the kids…..'Dec 29th, 2010 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
And it's not a question of not being able to afford anything. I can shop online at Tescos and buy 15 cases of chocolate milk if I want to, which comes via Brazil. Fine.
But try explaining to anyone with no preconceived ideas why the boat doesn't come from Chile any more and you quickly get a look that says 'Wow, these people must be complete dickheads. Is it time I put all my treasures in a bag under the bed for when they invade again?'
And I never taught anyone to hate. I have never let a child use the word 'Argie', at least in my hearing.
They must be ours Think ......... we've got 'em :-)Dec 29th, 2010 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Monty, the main issue about your kids it´s not the milk they can´t drink; the problem are the chances they are missing thanks to the status quo and the dispute; for example emigration to study and work, lack of an adecuate education at home with silenced scandals at the classroom; lack of oportunities of development and growth, etc. Please don´t blame argentina about your problems, those are your problems, problems that your colonial master are transferring to you at your cost.Dec 29th, 2010 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Argentina and the region is not your enemy, is your oportunity for development and to build a better society for your kids. The only enemy we have in south atlantic is british colonial presence; blame your master, they brought you to the dispute.
What dispute ?Dec 29th, 2010 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
(123) Monty69Dec 29th, 2010 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Try explaining to anyone with no preconceived ideas why the boat doesn't come from Chile any more....
Well......You could start by telling them a goodnight story….
Many, many years ago……… we Kelpers* were placed here by our Masters, the mightiest pirates on Earth to guard their treasure.
Those funny speaking local people from the other side of the water didn’t like that, but there was not much they could do against it.
We were the guardians of the treasure of the mightiest pirates on Earth…............. Remember?
But that was looong ago…………..
The treasure disappeared because some other funny speaking people decided to dig a Canal in Banana-land.
But that is another Pirate story, my dears……………..
Then, our Masters nearly forgot about us for many, many years…….... but now……. they are searching for a new treasure down here!
It is called OIL !….
Those funny speaking local people from the other side of the water are angry at us................ again.
They think it is their oil and therefore they don’t want to be friends or play with us anymore.
But don’t worry about a thing, dear children………….
Our Masters are still the mightiest pirates on Earth and we are still their guardians.
They promised us that the spoils of the treasure, will be enough to make all of us Kelpers* very rich…… and you will get the biggest and best Christmas presents you could ever imagine….. All year long…..
* The word Kelper is regarded and used by the author as a complimentary term.
Snore.....Dec 29th, 2010 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Billy, what lack of educational opportunities? Free education to degree level? Where else do you get that then? And how come you know about scandals in the classroom if they're silent?Dec 29th, 2010 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
As for you, Think, I think you've exercised your wit for quite long enough. You can keep your bedtime story to yourself; we don't do brainwashing here.
If you'll excuse me, I have an appointment with a cold beer and a sizzling mutton chop.
what lack of educational opportunities?Dec 29th, 2010 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Universities for example; do you know that Tierra del Fuego ( the other south atlantic archipielago) has an University?
Free education to degree level? Where else do you get that then?
Everywhere in Argentina; primary, secondary & university is free in Argentina.
And how come you know about scandals in the classroom if they're silent?
shhhh; pedophilia is a serious situation to talk here.
”Universities for example; do you know that Tierra del Fuego ( the other south atlantic archipielago) has an University?”Dec 29th, 2010 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Nope, and I doubt anyone else does either, The lack of an equally obscure 'University of the Falklands' is a simple matter of numbers. There are only 3,000 of us, is that enough population to sustain a university offering a reasonable range of degrees? of course it isn't. The practical solution is to send our students to good overseas universitys at FIG's expense, and on that note where are the best universities? Not Tierra Del Fuego for sure.....or indeed anywhere else in Argentina for that matter.
Argies getting nasty,Falklands still British :-)Dec 29th, 2010 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Westis, the University in TdF is a reality, you can google it.Dec 29th, 2010 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
My friend; kelperland has an unique oportunity to have an university; an english university for the students of the region; where you can offer to the southamerican students the possibility to study english in a british-style society. But you know what, you have an obstacle, status quo.
And because of status quo you are only 2500 and that´s the reason why an university for bennies is antieconomic.-
It is not economics Billy no mates, its numbers, and anyway, what makes you think that the Islanders want to service a South American Student population, one that would merely study English?Dec 29th, 2010 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
You do however briefly mention the one reason why most Islanders are happy to study at any UK University, they have a 'british-style society', so no need to study Spanish to get an education.
This single University in TDF, does it offer any of its courses in English? I strongly suspect it doesn't, so what use is a Spanish Language Education, even if it is free, to an English speaking Islander in a 'british-style society'? About as useful as a chocolate teapot; thats what.
You are an alien culture, with an alien language, and are affected by madness, the Islanders are right to steer clear of the insane, hence nobody wants to go to TDF University; which isn't highly regarded in the World anyway.
115 Malvinense 1833 (#)Dec 29th, 2010 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@ 110 Dab, These are the conclusions of the Foreign Office officials who studied the case. Their opinions are worthless.???
How do you know they studied the case? All I've ever seen from them is their conclusions, not the evidence they base their conclusions on.
@ 135, Dab Be patient, maybe you can find something in the Commonwealth Institute of London.Dec 30th, 2010 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@117, Lady Isolde for you ♥. If, de facto not de iure.
1) The most important thing : the reservation of sovereign rights of the Spanish King. 1a) France first occupant, acknowledged Spanish sovereignty.
2) The facts speak louder than words. british withdrew . for cost reasons??? as always excuses This region whaling was a major source of income.
And the supposed secret agreement was for the British to leave in 2 months............. strange that Spain did not object us being so late in going !! The answer lies in a note of Grimaldi to Masserano of April 9, 1771. Read other books, you are locked in Pascoe & Pepper.
3) The Spanish stayed for a while longer. The British did not object. British very gentile, that strange!!!
A reading of the original texts confirms that both countries’ rights were reserved....” lie. The Spanish king in HIS STATEMENT made an express reservation of sovereignty, to safeguard its right above. Not so, the English king.
you read them??? Not. The British diplomatic defeat, you can see, in the debates heated in the House of Lords and Commons. Find out about what was said by Junius, Burke, Chatham, Manchester. Explain the great British victory, then why the Earl of Weymouth resigned, barely know the agreement?
Moreno ONLY objected because he believed that the British had acted contary to an agreement in 1771. Very well done. The treaty says it all.
There was no agreement in 1771 and no evidence of one exists.
And this that is then??? A reading of the original texts....
Ronald Camp 1911: The only question is: Who did have the best claim when we finally annexed the islands? I think undoubtedly the United Provinces of Buenos Aires (sic), now Argentina. We cannot easily make out a good claim and we have wisely done everything to avoid discussing the subject.
Cameron► is a liar. Lord Palmerston► too.
Marvin - show me the Treaty of 1771 - show me where it says that the British will leave - show me :-)Dec 30th, 2010 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
You cannot of course. Evidence is required and you have none!
1771 was a victory and some in the Lords and Commons thought that we should have obtained MORE! The Government chose not to do so, but we returned and so it was a victory.
The point is that the dispute remained between Spain and Britain. Argentina had no part and inherited none!
Britain reasserted authority and sovereignty, Spain did not - game over!
130 Billy HayesDec 30th, 2010 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
'shhhh; pedophilia is a serious situation to talk here'
Damn right it's serious. You can have no proof of this at all because there isn't any. I have never heard even a breath of anything like this connected to any of the schools here. You're making it up, and it's vile.
As for your poxy universities, you must be kidding me!! I'm contemplating going back to uni for a mid- career refresher right now. Hmmmm where shall I go? My previous universities, ranked 30, 5 and, oh, number 1 in the world? Or arse end of nowhere university that doesn't even teach in English? Or figure in the top 500.
@137 Red, Tell Pascoe & Pepper to show you the full agreement.Dec 31st, 2010 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The Spanish king in HIS STATEMENT made an express reservation of sovereignty, to safeguard its right above. Not so, the english king.
1771 was a victory and some in the Lords and Commons thought that we should have obtained MORE Read the letter from Philo Junius, what you say is a great lie, perhaps out of ignorance. Argentina inherited what belongings of Spain, like other countries of the continent.
The Malvinas were part of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata.
Article 1. His Catholic Majesty recognized as free, sovereign and independent Republic or Argentina Confederation, composed of all the provinces mentioned in the federal Constitution in force, and other territories that rightfully belong or later will we belonged, and using the power it falls under the decree of the Parliament of the Kingdom of December 4, 1836, resignation in every way and forever, by himself and his successors, the sovereignty, rights and actions that corresponded to the territory of that Republic.
There was never British colonies in this part of the world.
Oh chance, only in Malvinas occupied by force. Use logic.
Cameron► is a liar. “because they have made efforts to avoid the truth to be proclaimed.” Robertson.
Happy New Year to you and to all the people involved here.
As Domingo said: “Still hoping for a happy outcome for all!”
Malvi says: This is my dream.
So you cannot show me the full agreement then? So you cannot show me the clause whereby the British agreed to leave? So you have no evidence that there was such an agreement?Jan 01st, 2011 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
So you've got nothing?
And we know what your inheritance is worth :-)
Happy New Year - dream on !
@ Red, Tell Pascoe & Pepper to show you the full agreement. The Spanish king in HIS STATEMENT made an express reservation of sovereignty, to safeguard its right above. Not so, the english king.Jan 02nd, 2011 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Use logic, the withdrawal, plus 60 years of silence says it all.
The facts speak louder than words.