MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency

Comments on this thread will sure be fun to read.

:-) wow, says it all really:-)

Can I assume the publication date is coming soon ?

He we go again!

I suppose the Argentine posters will argue that what happened in 1982 is irrelevant in 2011 while at the same time saying that the events of 1833 have relevance (despite the fact that anyone alive in 1833 is now organic plant and worm food).

This article makes certain points clear. The resolution of 1976 was broken by the ultimate unilateral act - invasion and subjugation of a people.

“Comments on this thread will sure be fun to read.”

I agree, lol!

It is inherent in the culture to be corrupt and dishonorable. Try doing business with them or getting them to adhere to a contract. They want to be paid but don't want to do the work. It is the same principle here, they like part of a treaty but not all of it. They want others to abide by a contract/treaty but they don't have to, hypocrites and dishonorable every single one of them.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......

Somebody still fuming after that sacking ...... Fredric?

http://www.casalopez.com.ar/home_eng.html

This has to be the ultimate “pull up a chair, crack open a beer and munch on some popcorn” news story.

Argentine Hypocrisy

It’s clear that Argentine unilateral actions and mind-boggling hypocrisy are the real problem here
Dont you argie bloggers yet understand it takes two to tango,
As long as David Camaron thinks you are our friends
their is nothing you can do to upset the apple cart without making Argentina look stupid and agressive, imature childish and spoilt brats,
but the world knows that already ?

Ouch. Any comments Argies?

:-))

I aslready did.........
At post No. 6

@9 ''Ouch. Any comments Argies?''

Rabble rabble rabble.
Nothing new under the sun. Move on, everyone.

(5) and (6)

A silent fredbdc...... for a change :-)

C. Menem !?....and his apprentice F.d .Rua !

you saw how they gone in 2001 !
trembling while watching tv... !!!???

Argentine and South American comments seem to be remarkable by their absence. Even Twinky hasn't managed much at his usual juvenile level.

But it shouldn't be long before some clown comes on to say that everything presented by Pascoe and Pepper is wrong.

Everything presented by Pascoe and Pepper is wrong!

Really Think? Or are you still not Thinking?

(5) C'mon Fredbdc

Tell us more about how it is to: “Doing business with them or getting them to adhere to a contract. They want to be paid but don't want to do the work.”

You tell some details.......... I tell some details.......

Game of chicken.....

Think, please enlighten us - re your #15. Thanks.

what will happen when the brits stop having an interest in the islands? the scottish will tell that the are only concern for the best interest not some colonie close or far away. What will happens when the oil is more than anything a flop in the edp?

i am argie and and i take the time to listen and understand, the problem is that no one in the islands take a trip to tierra del fuego o say hi to some argies.

the brits alredy did that in the 60: YPF and some others corporations start working in the islands...stop thinking of us and thinking about the brits

(5) C’mon “Fredbdc”
Did your smartphone run dry???

C’mon

*** Wasp to Wasp ***

White Anglo Saxon Protestant
versus
White Argie Saxon Protestant

You throw the first punch against the ”corrupt” and ”dishonorable”

(Better make sure nobody reads my reply though :-)

Buk buk Buk buk

G.Pascoe and P.Pepper ??
we see that some primary-school students write strategic
articles in England !

at Menem era there were 2 times negotiations between
BP--some levels Argentine Authorities ended by no agreement..
later, BP faced to Colombia after despairing in Argentina in 1995 !

Ohhh... that was just ed.....

I'm still waiting for fred.....

15, Sacking? Nope really didn't happen that way, I wasn't talking about Casa Lopez, they are great! The reason we stopped exporting the leather goods has to do with the export taxes and shipping costs made the goods too expensive for their quality in USA.
It is your poor government policies that made me get out of that deal. Casa Lopez and I have a very good relationship still and also with Rossi Caruso, love them! I made some money but not enough to make it interesting so I got out.
My gripe has more to do with the various real estate contracts I was involved in. I bought and sold around 20 to 30 properties in the time I was there and every single one of them the Argies tried to screw me or didn't live up to tier end of the bargain. Liars and cheaters all of them.

(23) fredbdc

What!!!
No mudslinging???

You say:
“Casa Lopez and I have a very good relationship still and also with Rossi Caruso, love them! ”

I say:
It's certainly NOT mutual.........

I don't know what would make you think that. Every time I go back I see them and buy a little something. I highly doubt you know them or have ever been to a store without them calling security.

:-)))

is there no argentine counter to the article then - just jibing and a little mud slinging?

Typhoon said it all at post No. 14:

Everything presented by Pascoe and Pepper is wrong!

Good article. Pascoe and Pepper strike again. Is there any sort of Argentine rebuttal (other than 'MALVINAS ARGENTINAS') to getting it right?

Can't agree with the comment about every single Argentine being a liar and a cheat, but it is always nice to start the weekend by reading some blinkered, generalising bigotry.......

I admire Think as her is always willing to post comments on any story. The other Argentine posters tend to avoid stories which provide a viable argument that points the finger at Argentina for the current situation.

They also tend to shy away from any story that reminds them of the events of 1982 and how they were responsible for the commencement of hostilities and a refusal to leave the islands as requested by the Security Council.

They are obviously ashamed of what happened in 1982 and would rather pretend it never happened (or that the reasons for it happening were not the fault of Argentina). This is not uncommon and is the approach that Japan takes with regards to WW2.

Argentines may claim that 1982 was irrelevant (if they even recognise it happened) but then constantly bang on about 1833. This is how futile their argument is. Hence the absence of the usual rabble.

1982 changed the whole situation in the Islands and as this story shows how it propagated a number of unilateral actions that made any existing UN resolution redundant. The arguments used by CFK and the Anglophobia she propagates are for domestic consumption to bolster her political position. This is why Argentina refuses to bring this issue up at the ICJ, but are happy to discuss pulp mills etc. under the legal mandate of the ICJ.

The drilling will continue and markets will be open to any oil that flows. The shouting in Argentina will continue for domestic purposes the world will carry on turning and the Falkland Islands will remain a self-governing BOT.

BTW Think do you have nothing better to do than cyber stalk me? My life is an open book and I don't lie so I really don't care what you say here but it does get tedious and it is very cowardly of you to hide behind a nick that doesn't describe you at all.

(30) Beef

A principle of Law:

The crime does not void the law.

The law stands above the crime.

Resolution 31/49 stands.

Jura for Dummies:

Your neighbor's killing of his wife and kids does not give you the freedom to kill your family or any other family………..

Capicse?

The Law stands.

(19) strugart

I am Scottish, and the Islands belong to the Islanders. if they wish to be British, then that is their wish. Scotland is not a stepping stone for you, don't use it again, the Scottish do not support your spurious claims.

This is exactly what I am talking about and the arguments I had every time I signed a contract with one of those Argie crooks.

Think, when one side violates or doesn't live up to THEIR end of an agreement the agreement is broken. You can't expect the party on the other end to fulfill a contract when you have clearly violated your part. That is how is how law and honor work. I know honor is a foreign concept that is why no one trust anything your country or citizens do or say. YOU ARE DISHONORABLE COWARDS and will never get respect until you change but trust takes a long time to win it back.

OK !

#Think --...how are Trini...Milagros...and others ? fine !
I send them my greetings...I 'll come and see them !

#Fred - ... how are Armando...Sophia...Betty...and others ? fine !
I send them my greetings....I'll come and see them !

ed.

OK so now any second, I, gdr, SRB, arquero will answer that gibberish and pretend like he is someone else. Loser.

34 fredbdc
You are absolutely correct.
And Resolution something something does stand - for those who want it to. Don't see the relevance for us since 1982 but if Argentina wants to continue in its role as classroom sneak, I think they should carry on.

cricket cricket cricket

Think doesn't like it when he is proven wrong, he's probably in a corner crying and rocking back and forth?

Gosh, you would think after all of this time he would get used to it by now.

“A principle of Law:

The crime does not void the law.

The law stands above the crime.

Resolution 31/49 stands.”

UNGA resolutions are not binding, and therefore are not law.

4. Calls upon the two parties to refrain from taking decisions that would imply introducing unilateral modifications in the situation while the islands are going through the process recommended in the above-mentioned resolutions;

The Falklands are not going through the process in the above mentioned resolutions.

The Argentines honestly believe they are above the laws and customs which apply to the rest of the civilised world. Their swagger throughout Latin America and Spain is risible.

They must be convinced, somehow, that their devious actions will get them nowhere.

@38 fredbdc
Not sure you are familiar with the rules of Cricket, I'm not a big follower of the game myself, but it is a very honourable and gentlemanly sport, and the rules are observed to the finite degree without much argument at all.

Hence the term, 'it's just not Cricket', when describing a situation when one side acts dishonourably outside of the game; I just found it amusing and ironic that your use of the words to describe the astounding silence regarding Think's witty diatribes, also have a double entendre this side of the North Atlantic, or indeed within certain possessions in the South Atlantic, where the game is played.

The nerve on the UN, brits and media to accuse Argentina of the same acts they allowed UK back in 1833 then they wonder how come Argentines don't forget, he who forgets his past will fall victim to the same trickery, go about your busyness everyone if hong kongs and the opium wars can still serve as a lesson, there is nothing here for us to learn, nothing has changed since the opium wars even the private companies are use the same way.
could it be that the real object is UK social unrest do to lack of fiscal balance ?? food prices sky rocketing, high unemployment, cut funds to university programs, and they still have the nerves to come here and patronize us, I invite you all to see how many people posted anything on UK headlines in mercopress, and you will notice something interesting, all the unemployed british subjects are here trying to see how they can steal land 10000 thosand miles away to live for free rather then take care of their own children education or even their jobs. what a loughing stock.

UK can't afford the Falklands

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601

UK cruising for trouble

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/01/18/cruising-for-trouble

44. Obama is the very definition of the 'peter principal” and will not be elected next time. There are 10s of millions of people that are going to work to make sure Obama only has 1 term he is not an unknown this time. Then the USAs relationship with UK will be back on track and stronger than ever.

“ a new national poll indicates most Americans appear to prefer President Barack Obama's approach to the issues”

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/19/cnnopinion-research-poll-january-14-16-obama-boehner-gop-in-congress/?iref=allsearch

Now I know how to spot that american clown Fred in Rosedal, he wears a lady purse from Casa Lopez N.A. :-))))

Yawn @42, 43, & 44
Still doesn't change the fact that you can't polish a turd, or expect anyone in Argentina to keep their word, respect a Treaty, maintain a contract, tell the truth, or be honourable.
You're all too busy on paco, selling your grandmother, rifling through your neighbours pockets at every opportunity, or claiming for stuff you've never owned.
Keep polishing that great big turd you call your version of history, you do more to prove our Sovereignty than your own, keep it up!

This report is bias, see how they say Argentina recuperated Malvinas, they lie and say we invade Malvinas, well who inveded the island in 1833 ?? we being living in soth America for ever and yet we invaded LOL this is what's bias with the brits, it all about them, we must put a stop to it and send the pirats all back home and emnty handed, in a box, in a plane, in a body bag, but get them all out with theit toys and gadget, lets print our own money invest in our own national programs, pay no interest on our printed money and send them all back to exploit their subjects, not our wealth, what are we India or Pakisan ?? Malvinas will not become a Hong Kong, Fakland is a pirat company thieving Argentine land plots, not a country.

I - the UN allowed re-establishment of British rule in 1833????? And the UN was created when? Please tell me how many Argentines can remember 1833 - if you find anyone then let me know which fountain of youth they are drinking from.

I see you have avoided saying anything about 1982? Why, is an event that happend less than 30 years ago (people still around who experienced it) of less relvance than something that happend about 180 years ago? Do you avoid discussing your unilateral military aggression in 1982 out of embarassment or guilt? Does burying your head in the sand give you a sence of security? Do you refuse to believe that 1982 actually happend? Is the chip on your shoulder causing you great mental termoil?

BTW - I have a very well paid job in UK Higher Education and am sending my boy to an independent school. My employment and childs education is sorted. If RKH continue to go from strneght to strength then perhaps I will give the job a rest.

Marcos - Looks like your brain cell is struggling to say anything of relevance again. Well i suppose someone has to be the salt of the earth, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8647423.stm

47 Wireless,

“be honorable” ………what a nerve

Not only the UK was too much of a coward to hack it without the Gurkhas, you don't even honor the people who fought for you.

“One of his many tasks as an Army ambulance driver was to negotiate around a minefield to pick up injured British soldiers.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178501/Barred-Britain-The-Gurkha-heroes-fought-Falklands.html

Fight for us, then go away and leave us alone please… you're not good enough to live among us.

You Brits are nothing but scum.

Martin - Thanks to public pressure from many of us Brits all Gurkhas now have the right to settle in the UK.

Gurkhas choose to serve in the British army. Not like your conscripts of 1982 who cried at the thought of losing their head to a Gurkha kukri!

Marcos,
If you enjoy going to Rosedal go for it no one cares or is stopping you. I know you need to make money to buy paco somehow.
Don't you even have enough $ to go to filthy brown watered MDP for the month? Are you still in BA? Did you go to Tigre and call that a vacation? I hope you didn't swim there, that has got to be just about as polluted as the Riachuelo.
What a gross place you live in:
http://trendsupdates.com/the-most-polluted-river-in-south-america/

Marcos - Good news, you position as the thinkest person on the earth has been taken by your commerade called I. He wants to print loads of Argentine money. Great, this should send Argentine inflation up even further pushing more of their citizens into poverty and further reinforing the knowledge that investment in argentina is worthless as they are unlikey to pay it back.

His teenage hormones have also got the better of him as he somehow thinks Argentina is going to send British troops out of the Falkland Islands in body bags etc. I guess he is loading the pea shooters and catapults as we speak. Remember to point those loaded weapons to the east I otherwise Chile may not appreciate lumps of rock and dried peas from landing on thier territory without a customs declaration.

@50 Marty
So you dispute the fact that you're a dishonourable RG, fine, we'll agree to disagree, but the rest you seem happy with, so we can assume you're a pickpocket always high on drugs that would sell your own grandmother to further your false claims...but are very honourable about it, yeah right.

Just the sort of person we can expect to keep his word, sign Treaties and contracts, and always tell the truth...and you think I have 'nerve'?

You, my good fellow, take the bleeding biscuit.

49 Beef ,“Please tell me how many Argentines can remember 1833 ”
Answer: 40 000 000
PhD Beef, not to worry you powerful undetectable submarine is on the way, Let's see what the Americans think about it:
http://wonkette.com/427479/dumb-british-submarine-stuck-in-mud

Fred, looks like welfare checks were not enough for you and now Argentina has to feed you, Casa Lopez North America Fred Bates :-)))))))))))))))) any sale?

well 1982 is not as the report says it, Argentina didn't invade Malvinas, Argentina reclaimed Malvinas. and regarding the UN yes in fact UN was created to litigate this kind of problems but they seem to only mitigate when there is capital or resources involved not peopple. in any case UN was the birth of Israel and the walls brought up by communism wich then where destroyed are now going up in Palestine, USA Mexico borders as the ones now in EU. get a grip of yourselves my british subjects. the fakland island is a british pirat company not a country.
here you have a link to what UK calls OBE. would you want this guy to be your MP ??
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/markets/article.html?in_article_id=472929&in_page_id=3
as long as you guys keep living in denial the occupation of Malvinas will keep costing the subjected tax payers, £365 million which came from the UK defence budget. This equates to a US Dollar figure (FY04/05) of $657 million and counting. doesn't really sink in does it ? put it this way while i type this, Malvinas has costed you another job, another univesity funded program another social benefit, eventually you will be one more Argentine but stuck in britain, no wonder the brits are plastered all over Agentine export tax comments but no body writes a word about UK unemployment level.

Argentina cannot reclaim what it never owned. The original dispute was between Spain and Britain. Argentina was never a party to the dispute and could not inherit what Spain did not own.

!833 ended the matter. Nothing to do with Argentina.

1982 was therefore an invasion of foreign (British) territory which was rightly dealt with by British forces. The UNGA Resolutions from before 1982 are effectively 'out of date'.

In any case UNGA Resolutions are advisory only and not 'law'.

“put it this way while i type this, Malvinas has costed you another job, another univesity funded program another social benefit,”

No it hasn't. Our Defence budget is normally set at 2.5% of GDP. Even if we didn't have the islands the defence budget would still be 2.5% of GDP

The money it costs us to pay for the equipment and troops on the islands, would still cost us the exact same ammount if they were based in any of the other places around the world we station troops.

“Argentina didn't invade Malvinas, Argentina reclaimed Malvinas”

Incorrect, by definition an invasion is:
“a military offensive consisting of all, or large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively entering territory controlled by another such entity”

All that has been shown here of course is that Mercopress is a tool of the British foreign office who are obviously getting more worried about the recent development of events.The English have been masters over the years of so called neutral reports presented by members of the secret services.If I were an Argentine foreign office observer I would be delighted with this as its showing their desperation.Brasil and Uruguay along with the rest of the continent on Argentinas side,trade and relations developing at a rapid rate with Chile which promises compleste isolation in the near future.Throw in English debt of over 400% of GDP and a determined Cristina Kirchner overseeing Argentina growing at 9% ayear on the verge of doing a deal with the Club of Paris, which will finish the countries last remaining debt problem which is now 35% of GDP, quite a difference dont you think.Argentina should now seriously concentrate on Chile and drawing them in to the Brasil/Argentina/Paraguay/Uruguay Mercosur orbit.Trade is growing at terrific levels across the Andes and this will heap the pressure on London when the Chileans join the rest of the continent in clearing the last vestieges of colonialism

But as the argies bloggers refuse to except anything but there own teachings, its a waste of time explaining to them, they will never accept that they are in the wrong, all they want today is two things,
1, the Falklands [illegally]
2, getting others to their dirty work for them,
without the Falklands Argentina may well be a better country,
more mature and richer, and respected in the free the world,
all they have is disrespect for anything but their own interests .

Briton, where are you from?

It would be unfair to say marcos, but the name briton is a very good indication, I take it you are either Argentine, or Argentine decent.
I was born in london, if this helps you,
briton is always willing to help fellow bloggers

What colour is the sky on your planet O'Gaga ?

The unilateral facts comes from the country that administrate the islands.
Argentina just claims. And thats all.

(59)O gara

You say:
”The English have been masters over the years of so called neutral reports presented by members of the secret services……………”.

I say:
British “neutral articles” produced by the FCO were once so well written. They were dangerous weapons…...... They were masterpieces……….
Nobody, and I really mean nobody, could form, shape and bend the truth like them.
Once they were Masters.

But today…… This “article”..... What can be said about it?

Pepper & Pascoe???.......... More like Laurel & Hardy!

One wonders if, in this globalization times, the FCO has outsourced their production of reports and articles to some dodgy PR company based in the Falklands, Rhodesia or even Iraq……………..

Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf & Co. anyone :-)

You wish :-)

I wonder who people (people who matter) would believe more Krichner and her minions, Argentinian professors or anyone from the UK or USA? Thoughts? I know who I would trust...

I - like I have said countless times before show me someone who really remembers 1833 (who actually experienced it) and I may start to listen. In 1982 the world told you to get out of the Islands and you refused. As a result it required the UK to teach you a lesson.

I find it interesting that you support the actions of a murderous regime under which many Argentines suffered and died. If your military aggression was a liberation/reclamation then why did your forces not fight to the last man or at least not surrender until they had used 75% of their ammunition and lost over 50% of their forces (as required by Argentine martial codes).

Now getting back to this notion of sending Brits back to the UK in body bags etc. Please let us all know how you are going to do that. With what will you do it and who will fight with you. If your military stratey appears as competent as you economic one then I suggest you sue your countries education services for negligence.

#60 to be exact (#1) our claim is for Malvinas Argentina, illegaly occupied by british subjects, I really don't know what fakland you are refering to, there is no town or island by that name in Argentina or in the whole of South America ask them. (#2) I'll repeat it again in case that (#1) is not clear there is no fakland in Argentina and if there was one it would still be part of Argentina, if you guys showed some class or manners, maybe you would not need to ask for respect.

Come on I, how are you going to exterminate the Brits in the Falklands and send them home in body bags? Do you retract that statement or are you now just avoiding it by not even recognizing the name of the Islands on all UN documentation?

You appear to be calling for military intervention. Have you signed up to your countries armed forces?

I just had a look on my mao and the Falkland Islands were easy to find. They're out in the south Atlantic, to the right of Argentina and you appear to be quite correct - there is no Falkland in Argentina!

Never has been! Never will be!

:-)

Mr Beef

don't care Fred,
every family has some strange characters,
Fred has always been a little wanton
his favorite hobby is motorcylcles....etc.. etc..

by the way..he is not wiser as much as César...etc..etc..

Unfortuanly the likes of the pre-pubecant character called I like to shout an scream and say things that they sit at home and masturbate about late at night. They are incapable of comprehending reality. When you call them to account for their words they simply avoid answering or don't even recognize their earlier verbal ejaculations.

Could this I person actually be Jihad Jorge? He disappeared a while ago didn't he. Yet another pointless waste of human DNA!

#70 Cuba did it with one Cheeeeeeeeeee !!!!!! I am sure we have a few 100 che's in Argentina, now as for the weapons, doesn't Russia, USA, China, N Korea, Iran, Israel, France, Pakistan, India or Germany have any nukes ?? if they don't when the time comes we will get them like Che did or did you forget the ammo train in santa clara ? you should go see it they have a museum now, if we don't get the nukes I am sure we can count on BP finishing all of you off with penguins and everything else in Malvinas Argentina, am still not sure why you guys feel soo unsecure about us being in Malvinas, you guys can keep the fakland company and the british colonist they are free to stay and become Argentine or go like anyone visiting another country. it's not that hard to understand really.

Now I has really lost the plot. Keep playing CoD while you grow some pubic hair, it should keep you out of the way of the people that stare at you.

This I person appears to be a fan of Nuclear War. I guess he sits at home masturbating over pictures of Stalin, Hilter, Pol Pot, Galtieri, Sadam Hussain etc.

Just to remind you I. You lost in 1982.

BP have not farmed in to the FI oil drilling but if they do you will find me sitting with my feet up in the Cayman Islands. That is another BOT by the way. Do you plan on invading that one as well?

@74

Wishful thinking I, you just keep on with your fantasies if it gives you comfort. I'm not going to lose any sleep over the possibility of an Argentine nuclear strike on the Falklands.

#74 - what ever happened to the parental control button. Don't Argentine adults accept responisbility even for their children ?

The words Argentina and Responsibility exist in a dichotomous relationship.

This I person is yet another paranoid, bitter Argie who is unable to to comprehend reality. Must make his parents proud!

the levels of abuse shown by the Englisg brigade on this post shows that all or almost are from peripheral areas where they are either in Wales,Scotland or the North Of Ireland surrounded by Celtic people who want rid of the English asap.This makes these people particularly defensive,nuerotic and in siege mentality mode.The inhabitants of the Malvinas will be even worse being so distant.However what really terrifies them is that history has shown the City of London. which has always ruthlessly controlled the ever declineing empire are very pragmatic. and will make agreements that suit the. money mens interest as in Hong Kong and. Ireland in recent years.The fear being. exhibited here is the planters recognize that South American nations are getting ever closer,growing very quickly while England at best stagnates and now is not very relevant to an ever weaker US.Argentines take little notice of these people and concentrate on ever greater trade in the Americas and London will be calling

I think it is fair for this article to point out that Argentina has undertaken unilateral acts since the 1976 UN GA resolution 31/49, which has directly & strongly contributed to the political position of the British & Falklanders today

The inclusion of the British Overseas Territories, including the Falklands, in the new Province of TDF in 1990 was also a clear unilateral act

Argentine Presidential Decree 256/2010 was another unilateral Argentine act contrary to UN resolutions 31/49, 2065(XX) & 1514(XV)

The UK is the Administrating Country of the Falklands Islands according to Article 73 of the UN Charter & specifically resolutions 1514(XV) & 2065(XX). The UN GA put direct responsibility on the UK to comply with resolution 1514(XV) to take immediate steps in the Falklands Non-Self-Governing Territory to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence & freedom

All sides need to forgive the current and past generations for history and to choose to resolve the dispute with goodwill, friendship & cooperation

There are two sides to every story, Argentina & Argentines should recognise the existence British & Falklanders viewpoints as the British & Falklanders should also recognise the Argentine viewpoints

All sides should recognise that each sides position is important to that side & should be respectfully heard & recognised as democratic free speech

The United Nations International Court of Justice is the proper UN organ for Argentina to take it's claim; whilst the UK must discharge its Administering Country duties to the Falklanders

The two sides should also recognise that negotiation has failed for historical reasons & should use of the ICJ to obtain an advisory opinion or permanent resolution

The UK & AR have clear duties to the Islanders

Another day another week and the Islands are still British.
Is Argentina intending to come to the 2012 Olympics? Do they have any athletes? Am sure they used to have some good runners.

#76 fantasies ? excuse me ! was Cuba a fantacy ? was that 1 day camping in Malvinas Argentina back in 1982 the year brits moan soo much about a fantasy to you ? as far as I know where there is will, there is a way, and the Argentine will is always there, what we will have to work on untill the day you wake to see the Argentine flag over Malvinas once again is the way, mean time see if you can give yourselves some rest and send more patrol ships because you need to spend 600 million a year is nothing to protect Malvinas,, Argentina is not going to invade or occupy UK. Argentina can just keep the tax on food export and watch you go hungry, there is no much to eat on that piece of rock drifting in the middle of the atlantic ocean we call UK, you seem to forget that UK now depends on world wide supply of resources to keep its own population employed, same with China and their population growth, USA and its apetite for big engines wich wasted valuable resources and brought GM to its knees, while Tata grew out of thin air and India's Economy is still growing as China did in the past, times have changed, those yearly reports are killers, the jigg is up, people won't be fooled anymore, give it a rest, get a job...a real job.. www.get-a--real-job.uk ...

Beef ##

Could the Brits Secret Services organize any bombing operations in Latin America by roundabout using 0f their disguised pro-Islamist militants ?

You have no any idea these militants are stashed !
could be in Australia ?

#71 I wouldn't try to fool you, in my map I can't find fakland, I looked all over UK and I could only find one in Canada.

82 I
Time for your daily dose of reality. Guass what? Argentina doesn't figure in the top 50 UK trading partners. Which means you are less significant than...almost anywhere. Not exactly going to bring us to our knees are you? In fact a tax on corned beef and pies would probably do us all good.
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/index.cfm?task=topcountriesqtr

O'Gaga - you're a twit! Worse you're an irish, marxist, terrorist supporting twit!

You are also completely wrong .... for one, I live a long way away from thoe border areas!

I - you are another twit!

The article makes a case, and yet none of the Argentine contributors have attaempted to argue against it, not in any serious way. This is normal for Argentina and is a main reason why the world finds Argentina's claim such a joke.

No chance, no hope ..... the islands have been British without question for 178 years .... get used to it!

#81 -we have no any athlets becouse we don't use up --doping-- !

@84
I(gnoramus)

“I wouldn't try to fool you, in my map I can't find fakland, ”

Might have made your search easier if you spelt Falkland correctly.

“I looked all over UK and I could only find one in Canada.”

Eh? since when was Canada in the UK? you could do with boning up on your geography a bit or bin those crappy Argie maps. Just to help you out a bit more: The Falkland Islands is not in the UK, it's a British OVERSEAS territory you ignoramus.

(85) Monty69
You use any opportunity to cut your poor husband’s animal protein intake huhhh?..........You devious woman :-)

(86) Hoyt
I recall you being from the “Black Country”
That’s quite “Border Area” isn’t it?

And TWIMC………A bit out of topic but….

Anybody remembers our discussions some time ago about the “Real Costs” of maintaining the “Military of the Falkland Islands” ???
No?...... Never mind… Thing is that extreme diverging figures were mentioned.
Most Brits favored ~70 million £ per year.
I used ~700million £ (estimate FY 2009/2010)

Some of you may have noticed that I’m quite an adherent of Wikipedia’s usefulness and ideals…..
Well……………. Take a look at this Wiki article here :
”The estimated figure (FY 2004/2005) was £365 million which came from the UK defence budget.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands#Expenditure

Please ”bear in mind” that this article has been written and edited by some of the most “ferocious” supporters of the Falkland Island cause like:
”Wee Curry Monster”; our own beloved ”Justin Kuntz”
and
”Agent0060”; The man with many names, currently ”Typhoon”

PS:
Wee Curry Monster……
If you are reading………..
Kindly correct this mistake ASAP :-)

In the second paragraph of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands#Expenditure
you write:
--“The suggestion that HMS Endurance (A171) was to be withdrawn,”--, linking incorrectly to the “New HMS Endurance”.
You should have linked to the ”Old HMS Endurance”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands#Expenditure ; the most beautiful Anita Dan.

We don’t want mistakes in Wikipedia……. Do Wee?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254773/Falklands-defence-spending-plunges-50-cent-years.html

”By 1989-90, the territory's defence budget had slumped to £60million, but by 2000-01 it had more than doubled to £143million - which happened to be the same amount spent in 2005-06.

But the following year, it fell to £65million and has risen by just £4million for the financial year >starting next month.

Erm, it cut off my message.

..>starting next month.

Cut it off again, ohwell.

To summarize: The troops and equipment would cost us the same if they were stationed in the UK or anywhere else in the world. So no think, the islands dont cost us anything extra to our budget.

Your argument is poor at best.

The news article is dated 3rd of march 2010.

@14 Typhoon, you did say some clown & look who answered, our own senor Thinkus!!!
@48,56&69. where do l start, you, senorito “l” are a complete raving lunatic like a lot of your countrymen, only you are worse. l have never heard such rubbish come out one persons mouth as comes out of yours.
but you are correct in one thing, little one, there is NO place called the Falklands in Argentina, simply because the Falklands are NOT part of Argentina. Malvinas exists inside your silly head, no where else.
@55,Marcos,& 40,000,000 of you are wrong! they can't all be as stupid as you,can they, Marcos?
@59&79,ogara!!!- thought we had lost you!, welcome back-
doom,gloom,worried,desperation,isolation etc,no ogara's back & as silly as ever.
and last but certainly not least @65 Think, you can do better than that.you've been listening to“doom & gloom ogara”again!
you don't like Pascoe & Pepper because its the truth & Argentina has no valid claims. there, there. you'll get over it, l'm sure

Also:

In fact, it will cost the UK taxpayer £69m to maintain a military presence on the Falklands Islands in 2010-11, representing less than 0.5% of the UK's total defence budget.

Sukey Cameron

UK representative, Falkland Islands government

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/14/value-falklands-presence-military

79 O'Gaga,

the pro IRA enthusiast, cuddling up to his bombs of a night time, hoping to kill pregnant women and children and bring down the might of Britain. While he dreams his disturbed dreams, Britain will be handing over Billions of pounds to the Irish to save them from there own short-sightedness.

Spent many a time hunting scum like you down in N.Ire and Gibraltar. Terrible times. Yet you still think that Wales, Scotland and N.Ireland want rid of the English, and that somehow we will do this for you.

Get real you pathetic waste of oxygen. I am a Scottish Catholic, and I have no problems with the English.

You on the other hand are nothing more than an a fake impostor, pretending to be Irish, but you are in fact Argentinean, who has to commute to a internet cafe from his mud hut, in order to post crap.

Do us all a favour, and play with traffic.

£69 million?
An absolute bargain!

(94) and (96)

Chuckle chuckle

From the same Daily Mail article you linked from:

(quote) - ”The Ministry of Defence said the fall was because of changes to 'accounting policy' - omitting costs such as military equipment, servicemen's pay, repairs and communications from the budget. - (unquote)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254773/Falklands-defence-spending-plunges-50-cent-years.html#ixzz1BlvJWbLw

Chuckle chuckle....

Redhoyt i may be a twit, am Irish, but am certainly no marxist and absolutely oppose all shapes of terroriosm includeing state terrorisn as practiced by Videlas regieme and many British governments in many parts of the world as exemplified by 95, the Hamster better described as the rat.This specimen the poor brainwashed delinquent that he is immediately tars anyone with a view opposing his masters diktat a terrorist supporter.
But so incoherent is the idiot when he is put in a situation where he has to think for himself in that in a mere ten lines he assures us he was hunting me down in the North of Ireland and before hes finished he declares I am Argentine.
You declare you are a Scotish Catholic well good for you,really you should see your nearest priest and confess all the bile you have locked up in that poor body of yours.It could be good for you but if that fails Argentina has some of the best psychologists on the planet so a trip to Buenos Aires might help.
I too dont have any problems with the English but being Irish understand how your lord and masters operate.Argentines remember these are people so easily led that in the twenty first century they still cling to a monarchy so discredited by murder,intrique and all sorts of failings.This is why we get the likes of Rat a poor badly educated descendant of Irish emigrants in aperipherical part of the island where live choices are so poor in all probability his only choice is to be a killer for the City.
All I have got so far in reply to my analysis of the Malvinas/Falkland situation that the City would eventually sit down with Argentina and do a deal is bile no informed comment,no considered argument nothing which once again shows us most of these hate filled poor people on here are terribly vulnerable to the designs of the masters in London

Let all those with the ability to comprehend recognise that “I” is the first letter of a number of useful words.
Ignoramus, of course, but also ignorant, ignoble, infantile, idiot, immature, irrelevant. Anyone think of any more? To offer suggestions the word must be appropriate to our poster “I”. So you can forget “intelligent”.

Think, The USA would NEVER support Argentina over UK. NEVER!
Why do you even bother posting such drivel.
CFK can't even get a 1 on 1 with the President, she had to beg and plead to get a photo op with him at the last UN meeting WHILE WALKING IN A HALLWAY!
Hilary went on an UNSCHEDULED visit to BA, more begging and pleading because most legitimate leaders don't visit BA, do they? The only reason she even stopped there is because Chile had their earthquake and Secret Service didn't want her In Chile that long.

Get in the real world loser.

Obama will be gone in 2 years and the USA will repair our relations with UK. 100+ years of friendship can't be ruined in 4.

“Chuckle chuckle”

I don't see how it's Chuckle chuckle. Equipment is a one off payment. You buy it - you have it.

Ofcourse the cost of making equipment would not be on the list, These aren't built for specifically for the islands they are just stationed on them and can be moved at any time.

I suppose your new theory is that maintenance communications and the wages of 1000 people cost 650 million a year?

Again, if the typhoons and the ships were not on the islands, they would be stationed elsewhere. Not saving us any money.

Your argument is crap, think.

Ahh Fred the teaboy.How are things in DC with Obama still firmly in charge thanks to one of your overzealous louts in Arizona.You may indeed be correct when you say Obama will be gone in two years and the Us and England will once again get closer.The real question is though do you matter anymore?Certainly in a lot of the Americas right now it doesnt seem you do..and to think you used to call it your back yard.Imagine in 2011 Brasil and Argentina car production could match the US.Those cheeky Latins are getting rich in the Southern cone fred but the good news is there is hope for the US its getting more latin every year.Maybe the US might support Argentina for the Malvinas under president Martinez quite soon.Sarah would love that wouldnt she?

(90) Chuckle Chuckle

Having a car is very, very cheap…………. omitting costs such as monthly loan payment, depreciation, insurance, vehicle and road taxes, congestion charges, parking fees, gas, oil, repairs and maintenance, eventual fines and tickets and other insignificant details…. from the budget. –

Having a “Malvinas thievence” is very, very cheap………...omitting costs such as military equipment, servicemen's pay, repairs and communications from the budget, the Ministry of Defence said to the Daily Mail………………

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254773/Falklands-defence-spending-plunges-50-cent-years.html

What a turnip.

97
Can't believe it, the Chuckle Brothers are on here.
Brilliant. To you, to me, to you, to me!!!!

“What a turnip.”

I'm a turnip? Still waiting for you to explain how the islands cost us 700 million.

And if you have a car and it's parked two streets down the road it still costs you the same as it would if it was parked outside your front door.

“omitting costs such as military equipment, servicemen's pay”
Are omitted because it would cost us the same if they were stationed on the isle of man. There is no cost increase.

I suppose “repairs and communications” raise the 67 million to your 700 million.

(102) O gara

You say:
”There is hope for the US….its getting more Latin every year.”

I say:
You are quite right………….. Going fast……………..

A couple of years ago, visiting the ranch of an acquaintance of mine in Wyoming, I was positively surprised by a bunch of Latin residents in our nearby little town of Dubois.
http://www.duboiswyoming.org/

Twenty years ago there was hardly any Negros in that State! (there still ain’t any today :-)
But today, the Wyoming wranglers are named Juan, Pedro and Jose and speak perfect Spanish……..

Greetings
El Think

Think - the Black Country is a little north of me but ... as it's in the Midlands its hardly 'border' country.

But my point remains .. still no effective repudiation of the article by the RGies ... no chance, no hope, nowhere to go .... :-)

So what you two are implying is that the ever increasing Hispanic populations will eventually drag us down to the level of South America?
Could you give me some links on how you come to that conclusion? It looks like through out the history of the USA we have had many different races of immigrants join us to only make us stronger.
The Hispanic population is about 15% of the USA now so I don't see them becoming a majority until long after me and my great great grandchildren are dead and a lot can happen in the mean time.

The Midlands !!!
Not precisely what a Londoner would consider “Central”….

You brummie screwdriver :-)

Isolde, The question from Beef was“,“Please tell me how many Argentines can remember 1833 ”
My Answer: 40 000 000
My question to you, Please tell me how many British can locate Malvinas/Falklands on a map?

Meanwhile you think enjoy this article
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11999601

Fred Lopez, ”The USA would NEVER support Argentina over UK. NEVER!”

For a certain cretin called “I” who cannot do adequate research or read maps :-
Falkland, Village in the County of Fife, central eastern Scotland.
Falkland Islands, 400km off the eastern seaboard of RG, named after said village.
British Overseas Dependancy.
Not in rg and never will be
o'gaga, pleae change your nickname, wouldnt like to think you were in any way related to one of the best rugby players in the world today!

Falklands provide excellent ranges for all types of advanced military training and its all free.
Difficult to undertake low flying exercises anywhere in the UK and Germany these days and the Falklands provide exactly the right terrain with not too many locals to annoy.
Analysis shows benefit far outweighs cost, but thanks for your concern.
UK forces remain amongst the best trained in the World in defence of democracy, liberty and the British way of life. Hip hip hurrah. V.

Continue from#110 ,Fred Lopez, ”The USA would NEVER support Argentina over UK. NEVER!”
Really?
Constantly referring to BP Plc as 'British Petroleum',

Upon entering the Oval Office he immediately returned a valuable bespoke bust of Winston Churchill to Britain

During a recent British stand off with Argentina over rights to The Malvinas/Falkland Islands, Obama supported Argentina. The first American president to do so,

”Generally, my grandson(Obama) has never believed the British do anything for a common good, rather than their selfish interests.“

The ”red neck”America that you are talking about is and getting old and replaced.
You sing very well ! :-)))
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhMepzqJvIw

113, Obama or Carter 2 as most of us refer to him will be gone in 2 years and everything will get back on track.

Sure, I can't wait to see Sarah there to laugh all day long.

I don't think Sarah will run, she is very powerful and getting very rich doing what she is doing.
No one has even started seriously campaigning yet and I think the Republican candidate will be somewhat unknown to the general public probably a Governor or Senator from a Mid West State or a businessman without any gov't experience but lots of corporate executive experience. We'll see, basically about 55% of the country thinks “anybody but Obama”, it's not like he can run as an outsider or unknown like last time.

TWIMC
I would vote for this honorable Conservative American, a defender of the American values and a true “friend” of Argentina…;-)))

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-22-2010/on-topic--scandal-list---mark-sanford

@99

Idiot.

(not you BTW, I'm talking about “I”)

“An Argentine sought to lead a taking of land in Uruguay”
“Dozens of families moved into a wasteland on the outskirts of Montevideo, but were evicted, the government passed zero tolerance Mujica encroachments.” By Nelson Fernandez

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanacion.com.ar%2Fnota.asp%3Fnota_id%3D1343684

That guy graduated from the Cristina's School of Shanty Towns and Illegality. I'll vote for her, that's for sure!

cadfael 111 Ronan is a very good rugby player i agree bet you wont like him so well after looking at this
www.anorak.co.uk/210070/sports/irish-ruby-player-snubs-queen-picture.html
Who would like me to call myself Messi,Pichot,Del Potro,Ginobili, since so many of you guys are convinced I am Argentine or maybe rat would like it if was Adams

In the country of the Sensation of Insecurity (aka Cristina´s Fantasy Land)

“Two hooded men entered the house armed attack of a Bolivian family in Florencio Varela died today after being hit by multiple shots of quinteros of the area resisted the robbery and said they acted in self defense.”

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lanacion.com.ar%2Fnota.asp%3Fnota_id%3D1343690

@119

I´m sure that you would vote for Carlos Saul I, Right? Back to the good old 90´s when everything was ''beatifull and free''?...

@122: I, you again with Carlos Saúl Menem? Néstor and Cristina voted for Carlos Saúl Menem.
Remembering the Golden 90s...
Néstor, Cristina and Menem having a great time together in the city of El Calafate :) Kiss Kiss Hug Hug between Néstor and Menem. Néstor Kirchner couldn't stop saying “Thank you thank you thank you Mr. President” haha, so nope, I will not vote for Menem and I will not vote for Cristina. HYPOCRITES. They're all the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSVkWy4A-JE

Yul = I = Rubino84 ;) Having multiple accounts won't help Cristina win the elections, you're not being helpful :) you're only making me see that not voting for Cristina is the right decision, so I thank you for that haha

As usuall both sides tell only what is convenient for each of them, and play the victim, i recognize that my country made a terrible mistake in 1982, which ruined for good the situation, however the u.k. never recognized it's mistakes.
On the other hand, you are not much better than us, you keep on using the dictatorship, to reject every pacefull solution with my country, i will always understand the desperation that the islanders felt when they saw that their country was being invaded, it's actualy the same desperation that thousands of my compatriots felt during 7 years and a half, when their relatives were toke, tortured, and finally killed by the junta.
The articule of our constitution, was incorporated to assure that the claim will always be present, however if the u. n. call both sides to negotiate, if negotations are renewed, like us or not we will have o cede in our pretentions, that's what a negotiation is about, it's obvious that the islands are never going to be only under argentine sovereignty, but it's not imposible neather to find a fair solution for both.
Some day you will have to learn to separate the context of the dictatorshrip, from the actual context, there are no resons to reject the negotiations with my country, except your own intransigence.
None resolution argue that the solution to the conflict is the transference of sovereignty to argentina, they all only call for negotiations and that's all.
Beside, i have never agreed with argument of the implanted population, it should not be used anymore, most islanders take living there even 8 generations.
As long as you keep on rejecting the negotiations with my country, we will have surely more serious problems in the future, like in 2o1o. And you will keep on doing the best thing you know how to do, which is victimizing your self.
On the other hand, my country should once and for all, to include the islanders in the negotiations, it's inadmisible that they are no part of it.

@123 : A lot of people voted for Me**m, saying one thing doesn´t really mean that you´re going to stick to your word (here a clear example).

BTW: What you´re on about? Doing what? You compleatly lost the plot!

@124: Where there is life, there is hope! The current generations can chose to find a resolution of the dispute to the satisfaction of all

This article made the point that the negotiations between the UK and AR under UN resolution 31/49 of 1976 were stopped by the Argentine surprise invasion on 2nd April 1982

Having suffered death, injury & destruction of property due to the acts of aggression neither the Falklands nor British wish to negotiate with the Argentines because they were attacked and were forced to fight back in self-defence or be subjugated

These unilateral acts of the Argentines cause the Falklanders & British to distrust the motives of the Argentines

Right or wrong, this is how the Islanders & British feel

The fact is the UK is the administrating country for the Falklands in accordance to resolution 1514(XV); it is the UK which must comply with the terms of resolution 1514(XV) & its duty to the Falklanders

Even though Argentina disputes sovereignty with the UK, it also has the same duty to the Falklanders under resolution 2065(XX), while both countries were requested to resolve the question peacefully, Argentina resorted to force and lost

Argentina may still dispute sovereignty of the Falkland Islands despite its act of violence, but its dispute does not affect the UK's duties to the Falklanders as their administration country which is not subject to Argentine say-so

I sincerely believe Argentina's proper course of action is to take its dispute to the UN ICJ

Axel, I note that the 1994 constitution stated in its temporary provision about the Falklands that Argentina pledges to be respectful of the way of
life of their inhabitants & to act according to the principles of international law; if the populace chose free association with the British & a British way of life under resolution 1514(XV) the ICJ may determine under the principles of international law that Argentina must defer to
their decision

The sooner the AR asks the ICJ the better

@ 125 Don't get angry, it's not me in the video, it's Néstor, Cristina and Carlos Saúl Menem :)

This is Néstor, again, but this time with General Oscar Guerrero in 1981, because Néstor and Cristina were sooooo against the dictatorship and they were soooooo worried about the people being tortured and executed! There was that famous “circular 1050” do you remember? You sure are as old as Néstor was, so you must remember those days.

http://www.perfil.com/fotogaleria/?filename=contenidos/2006/11/05/noticia_0031.html

BTW: What are you on about? Doing what? Regaining back Las Islas Malvinas? With a woman that says one thing but does another? :P Unfortunately, British are not idiots even when Cristina tells you so. Cristina can only convince people like you, with a glass of wine and a choripan.

116 fred, No wonder this republican leader everytime that he thinks about that clown Bush and Sarah cries all the time :-))))))))

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8k9RsrRtYo

Well put Domingo.

Domingo no doubt you are well intentioned but they love this level of innocence in London.Certainly when an agreement is reached the welfare of those dwelling on the islands now will have to be looked after along with the absolute liberty of all Argentines to move anywhere in the national territories,but apart from that Argentina should simply get on with the realpolitik of regaining the islands which are part of South America and have nothing to do with England.This realpolitik will have nothing to do with invasions but the very real developments in the Fuerzas Armadas in the coming years will be of importance as will economic developments.The English levels of debt are catastrophic and their position is extremely weak.When they are in situations like this ruthlessness is required.Luckily I think CFK is the Woman for the job

O'Gaga - you're still a twit ..... delusional too !

Marcos- where do you get this idea from that USA backs you?- all US said was it is a bilateral dispute and they would be happy to help resolve it if asked - prefectly neutral statement. Usual ols Argentine dreams and dilusion I guess .

O gara:

There is absolutely and categorically no indication or evidence to suggest that your oppinion is anything more than just an idiotic fantasy that you have conjured in your deluded mind.

130 O 'Gaga (#)
Jan 23rd, 2011 - 01:33 am
' the absolute liberty of all Argentines to move anywhere in the national territories,'

Sorry Gaga, no trees in the Falklands therefore no natural habitat for RG Diegos....

@130. O'gara, yes, you are right to point out those in power follow their own agendas

I am under no illusion that ordinary people's influence over their own governments is very weak. The cynic in me says this is how our politicians and rulers like it too

Social democracies have provided people with the best economic freedom & social protection they have ever experienced, but very little political power to influence policy. The opinion of the masses is still metered by those in power and if the majority opinion is contrary to the opinion of those in power, then the ruling elite will use their power to ignore the peoples opinion until unrest threatens their power, then they will usually find a way to divide & placate the mob, only rarely actually following the democratic will of the majority!

The rich & powerful have much to lose & much to gain through influencing policy and do their utmost by fair mean & foul to see that they get the results they want; it is human nature. E.g. I believe a lot of Brits and Yanks are perplexed by the reality of freedom to hold an opinion but little power to influence policy, when the majority of its populace would have sought other means to deal with the issues of 9/11 & the Middle East, yet ambitious people in influencing positions used every means at their disposal to get the policy they wanted, fair & foul

To me the British involvement is clear; they tried to settle the Falklands in competition with the Spanish & eventually succeeded where the new nation of Argentines failed

It seems to me that if a people are able to establish effective & permanent rule over a long period of time than that land is recognised as theirs; that is what the European British did in their South Atlantic Territories & the European Argentines in South America

To reduce wars over land & resources, the UN agreed a status quo & a balance of power; but also granted choice of association to non-self governing peoples in a world of hard realpolitik!

(130) O gara

About “Domingo”
I stopped paying attention to his “good intentions” after noticing his “creative rewriting” of those UN resolutions he “knows so much about”………..

The original UN Resolution 2065 (XX) says textually:
”the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)”

Domingo’s ”improved” version of UN Resolution 2065 (XX) reads:
”the wishes of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)”

Honest mistake?......... Don’t “Think” so…....…Vive la petite différence :-)))

About all those Sassenachs insulting you…..............

Well………….. We all know what it means when an Anglo loses his composure. Don’t we? :-)))

I agree in general with your analysis of the “Malvinas Issue.”
A bit too optimistic about Argentina’s time-frame though.
And a tad too pessimistic about English economy.

@110 Marcos, l couldn't tell you how many British people(or any other nationality) could not locate the Falklands on a map and l couldn't care less.
That has got absolutely nothing to do with 40,000,000 poor deluded Argentines actually believing that they own another country's land.
You don't own OUR land but you have been taught that you do & you believe it without question. lts a case of believing your own propaganda & lies.
l can draw a parallel here, in WWll, the Germans put out that the Russians were untermensch(subhuman)& could easily be defeated by“real”humans such as themselves.
The shock that they got was catastrophic when they encountered the T34 Tank which was better than most of their tanks & they found how well the Russian soldiers could fight. lt ultimately led to a German defeat.
They believed their own propaganda just as you are believing yours.
Do some research and discover that the Falklands have NEVER been your!
Ogara making a fool of himself again l see. l think he is lrish but he is only backing the Argentines because their opponent is British.
you must have it pretty bad Ogara.

@127 : Mate, your still living in the past, what happend, just happend. I rely on numbers, not only INDEC´s but private stimation too and since 2003 everybody who can think by themselfs (my guess is that La Nacion thinks for you?) will realize that we wont stop growing.

''Cristina can only convince people like you, with a glass of wine and a choripan''. You can say whatever you want, your a gorila and is nothing that you can do to change that. ;)

Think I beleive you are correct about Domingos views.He suggests in his last post that Genocide is ok as long as you put in planters and govern them well.Obviously the Serb error over hundreds of years was. they didn't kill enough of the Kosovars.
My English friends who dony deny they all live in the perihery offer no logical counter argument to my analysis but abuse.Seems Think that they too recognize that the Worlds changeing.

(139) O’gara

You should read some of Domingo’s many postings this year about Argentina’s Nazi past, Nazi present, Nazi mentality etc. etc. etc!
Heavy stuff………….
Godwin’s law for Dummies :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Shifting to something more constructive:
I have noticed that even die-hard Tory lads like “Redhoyt” and young gun loving turnip sprouts like “Zethee” are linking from (and hopefully reading) Britains best newspaper….

Here's an old but good one from The Guardian…. .................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Have a sunny Sunday

Think, I often take a passing glance at the Guardian, if only for the fun of it. Left wing, yes! Minority newspaper, yes! Irrelevant, yes! And in the case of your quote - old news!

I even take in Telam ... now that really raises a smile!!! :-)

And thank you .. it is a sunny sunday, the islands are still British and God (obviousl;y British :-) is in his heaven :-))

You have a point there Think. The Guardian is a bit of a comic really. We have apt name for it's readership; GROLIIES!

Guardian
Readers
Of
Limited
Intelligence
In
Ethnic
Skirts

Not really a publication that carries with it any currency. Good to have different perspectives though. Pity your comrades like I (the merciless), O Gara (the confused identity) & Marcos (the intellectually challenged) can see past their flawed and unilateral perspectives!

A – Hupt – Twoo – Three – Four
A – Hupt – Twoo – Three – Four

We are Penguin
We are Boss..
We hate F******
Albatross !

A – Hupt – Twoo – Three – Four
A – Hupt – Twoo – Three – Four

Lost me there Think ... sounds a bit Yanky to me :-)

Still, it's a bit slow isn't it! Not much news. Not much happening, still I suppose the UN will eventually get geared up for the same old, same old stuff on the C-24. Provide a few laughs maybe.

It's all geting a bit boring really. I was hoping that Cristina would be getting a few Falklands headlines into her Arabian visit, but hardly anything ... hey ho, I suppose something will be along shortly, ... maybe :-)

Lost you, Lad?.......... Again?
Happy hour in Phuket, already?

You just relax, pull up a chair, crack open a beer and munch on some popcorn”,
News are coming...... for sure:-)

@139: Lol, no not at all O'gara, genocide is never ok, it is always wrong. I was just drawing attention to the similarity of what both the British & Argentines did to expand gain new lands; both nations are guilty of using planters to acquire land

@140: Well I can see parallels in the politics of the military juntas of 1930s and 1940s Argentina & their selected methods of school book propaganda & indoctrination which was similar to those adopted by contemporary fascist regimes of Italy, Spain & Germany

Carlos Escudé wrote about this in an political science essay:

http://www.argentina-rree.com/documentos/culture_escude.htm

Now I know Think and others don't agree with Escudé's analysis & comment it is flawed, which is fair enough. I am happy to hear the counterpoint views of what are the flaws in his analysis are & to hear alternative views

In the Cold War too, the sides sang their own virtues & also denigrated their opponents & tried to involve non-aligned states in their politics

No doubt all nations including Britain have done much of this in their past & such prejudice is wrong. Education systems should try to be balanced and fair. People will still have opinions, the question is are they freely formed or a result of indoctrination & pressure?

My thought was that on this issue in there is evidence in the past the Argentine education system like the UK education system too has been used for political ideological purposes - for both states its not appropriate & on the issue of the Falklands/Malvinas then both states should strive for a balanced & fair presentation of the facts & wide-ranging opinions

Clearly it's wrong to indoctrinate, better to educate & offer all points of view and not to persecute people for holding different opinions

I know Think doesn't agree & criticises me for holding the above opinions; give me a reasoned argument & I am happy to change my view

My hope is AR/UK/FIG chose acts of friendship & kindness to resolve the dispute

Domingo:
The history of the islands, and the war is not taught in our schools.

Well there is that smoking ban .... nasty stuff !

Domingo, History is written by the side that WINS the war.
No one cares about the losers version.

mates /
the dates below comment names ( #)are GMT ??.

There have been a lot of comments, but few addressing the points raised in the article......

There'll be a couple of 'Will and Kate' commemorative wedding plates in it for anyone who can offer a point-by-point counter argument to the article. ;)

Pretty hard to argue facts, maybe that is why the Argies can only deflect with personal attacks.

Please send me my plate

(148) Hoyt

Poocha Man…
That Smoking Ban....

I guess, Malvinas is a split Nation over this issue.
“Monty69” and “Islander1” surely in favor of it.
“Isolde” and “WestisBest” certainly against.

A Society in disarray; a People ripe for partition.
Smokers to West;.. Non-smokers to the East.

A brigade of Argentine UN “Smoke Keeping Forces” is stand-by at Port Desire to intercede between the two cantankerous ethnicities.

One thing for sure……………
Hedonist nights at Deano's will never be the same……..:-)

Are Argentinians mostly descended from Spanish or Italian immigrants?

“Are Argentinians mostly descended from Spanish or Italian immigrants?”

Yes.

@149: Maybe that's where the world's being going wrong? Perhaps the winner should care about the loser and vice versa?

A willingness to reconcile old differences, forgive the current generations for the past generations mistakes is a better way to heal bad feelings

I am convinced current generations choosing to cooperate in friendship is a better proposition than repeating past cycles of conflict so that's what I hope for

149, Fred Lopez, Like Vietnam, Irak and Afghanistan?

137 lsolde, “l couldn't tell you how many British people could not locate the Falklands on a map” Maybe because the answer is not too many and that is not their land 14000 km away.

Some interesting comments:

Interesting read about our history with Argentina - I do believe though we should be handing the rights back of the Falkland Islands to Argentina. What right do we have a on these islands that our over 6000 miles from us.
Paul Taylor, Maidstone

A very onesided view of history, no mention of deporting the entire population of the Islands to the Argentine mainland! Is it right that the British Government continue to pay (mostly English) British farmers to work on the lands on the Islands in order to uphold the idea that the Democratic wish of these people is to remain British? they are hardly likely to want to anything else!
Pat Lee, Belfast

Is the 60 million strong British bulldog really being wagged by its miniscule Falklands tail- or more precisely a hair on the tail, given that there are only 3,140 Falklanders? In the 21st Century, can a European power hide its colonial claim to the oil resources under the sea bed of South America by sheltering behind the 'rights' of its colonists?

Britain must go, and in the end it will have to go; the issue is one of how and when
Noah Tucker

Did we lose in Iraq? Did we lose in Afghanistan? I think we won in Iraq at least the is what is reported here, and I think we are still in Afghanistan.

In these 10 years of war we have made some incredible achievements in Military R&D. What has Argentina invented in the last 10 years? Hmm nothing? Is that due to laziness or stupidity? Aren't you still using fighter jets from the 70s that we got rid of after Vietnam? How long do you think it would take Chile to control the sky in Argentina? 1 or 3 hours? Losers.

Which wars have Argentina won since the invention of the combustible engine? If you can't fit them all here you can email me.

Filthy dishonorable cowards....

Macros - Britain doesn't have to go and will not go. Argentina has no way of making Britian go (and never will). The only one who has to go anywhere is you; go an get an education, you will benefit from it.

Don't agree; you know where the Islands are. Come and make us go away if you have any guts. Ask your friend I to bring some body bags as he appears to have a fetish with dead Brits.

#159 why would Argentina have to make UK go away when UK is the ones bleeding their economy and their resources with a unsustainable choices, I am still trying to figure out how on earth will Malvinas Argentina payback all the militry help they get from UK if the Oil production is still 0, they can't just keep overfishing the ocean or survive on fishing licences.

I - you where the one talking about body bags and nuclear bombs etc. Have now realised how stupid your earlier posts are?

I find it funny that you all appear to think that the UK is broke. If we were broke or on the verge then why would we have a AAA credit rating. What is Argentina's by the way? Why are we lending money to other Euro countries who need our help (if we were short of cash)?

There is nothing Argentina can do to change the status quo and nothing it can do to stop any HC industry emerging if the drilling does establish the FI as a new oil province. How does it feel to be so impotent I?

Keep on shouting and pretending to be an Argie hero while playing your computer games. We will carry on quietly going about our business. All this time the drill but keeps turning and Argentina continues to play the role of spectator.

It was said during the 1982 War that the morale of the UK's armed forces was excellent because they were fighting for the Islanders. In contrast the morale of the Argentinian soldiers was poor because they were only there for land and resources and had no real connection with the Islands. After reading Argentinian comments on here, that are in the main vile and full of hate, it would be inconceivable for any British Government to even contemplate handing over these beautiful Islands and their courageous inhabitants.

The Argentines were not there for the land. They were young men pulled off the street and sent to some strange islands in an desperate attempt for a military dictator to hang on to power. They were treated like lumps of meat by their leaders and their officers. These young men wanted to get home to the warmer parts of Argentina and spend their days drinking beer and chatting up pretty girls.

Their officers were so afraid that they would get lynched by their own conscripts that following the surrender they were permitted to keep hold of their side arms for protection.

One Argentine soldier wrote that when he landed on the Falklands that he found a nail on the ground. When he picked it up he read the words “Made in England” on the side of it. He then wrote that he knew he was no longer in Argentina!

#161 no no there is nothing stupid in knowing how to make britain go home or at least make them spend more in defence to bleed their economy and weaken them, I also believe that Argentina has a lot of resources that need to be protected and in the nuclear era we should be resposible enought to probide a nuclear defece program for our children, just in case that UK didn't get the point when they try to invade Argentina or when they took Malvinas, in any case a few nuclear submarines should put a stop to all the pirat traveling nonesence, in the old days pirats where hunted down and killed UK has changed a lot “NOT”. for now you are right there is nothing we can do to change the status quo, today, this is why I tell you that with a nuclear defence program the illegal aliens in Malvina Argentina will see it differently, if not that's too bad because they are from UK and need papers or go back home like everyone else who deosn't have a visa. if they pick up weapons against their couty we will have to blow them of the face of the earth like any other revol force. in war there are no rules, and if there is any by the time we figure out what happend it will be too late for them, come down my british subject, lets us know when you guys finally find our oil we might be more interested in patroling our oceans, maybe thanks to britain we will finally build a stealth nuclear submarine to watch your soldiers swim back to UK, the blind can't see the future unfolding the same is true for people who live in denial or those who want to stop progress, UK's resistance is futile.

I - you are great amusement. Really you should be up for a Latin American comedy award. A first start for Argentina may be making sure it's military pilots can get enough flying time in to maintain their licences.

Have fun with your pea shooters and catapults.

BTW - you may wish to speak with some of your veterans about the war. You may change you mind about such human disasters!

We have found oil if you haven't noticed and are currently appraisal drilling! Happy days!

Back to your computer games and porno mags I.

planes ??? I don't remember saying anything about planes, I would rather have a small stealth nuclear submatine. planes would be a waste of money when the only thing to do is prevent any ship from ever crossing the ocean, even a stealth underwater mines would do the trick, say did you guys finish cleaning up the mine field ?? we might have the need to go plant newones ? we can do this your way or do what's is right and return the thefted Malvinas to Argentina, 1982 was a warning Argentina had no nukes back then but we will be back this much I can assure you, no hurry here, the brits still haven't found our oil yet as soon as production come to a worth while finacial climb we will be 100% there, the oil output will help us pay for the nukes we will need to get armed illegal aliens out, I love politics you can never be wrong.

I - honestly you are proof that the only thing to do to an Argie is to laugh at him. So you are now saying that you are happy for your country to break the international moratorium on land mines.

1982 was a warning. A warning that the UK will defend the Islanders. Once again I say talk to some of your veterans about the futility of war.

While you are masturbating about death and genocide I would just let you know that Argentina does not have and is not developing the capacity to posses any if the technology you lie at home and fantasize about.

You will also find that we have found oil. RKH found it in May and flow tested it at commercial rates, making me loads on money in the process.

Think - what is your take on this metal case!

You talkin' to me?...You talkin' to me?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzPBUGUM7KQ

Lad.......I tend to ignore your side's “Turnips”..............

Thanks Think, although I think calling I a turnip would be a complement. Pity there is no ignore function on Mercopress like there is on iii.

if the international community fails to protect our land right and resources, their rules don't apply to us, besides UK don't care for UN desition why whould we, you mean only UK gets to choce what rules to fallow ??? is this because only white people have the right to makes choices ?? is it because Indians and natives have no rights ?? or is it because pirats think they owned everything in the planet ??? lough my british subject, he who loughs last loughs the loudest, we don't need to make a war, Argentina just needs to mine our ocean with stealth mines, that's all we got terrorits in Malvinas who are pirating our resources, If UN can't stop them they have no say, you are with us or against us, now remember we are not going to throw you a lifesaver when we find you drifting in the ocean. you are right Arentina is not building any nukes “YET” neither did Cuba and gess what 50 years later you are still lost with utopian denial, Cuba had only one Che Guevara but we have 40.000.000 where that one come from, Cuban's didn't even have guns but guess what an ammo train happend to come by, there are many nations who will soon trade their nukes for food, keep in mind that people in North Korea and Iran don't eat nukes, nuclear technology is here to stay and if you keep it up you might be the first caucasian to have a taste of your own medicine, well deserved ! if I do masturbate is not as grose as you thinking of me masturbating, can you see the homosexual dilema you have ??? when the oil production level gets to be enought to pay China for a few 100 nukes let us know, Argentina might not need to build nukes when UK is already paving the way for us to have them for free, if it isn't for the UK Argentina would never get them.

(169) Beef

Speaking about iii…….Just a question?

People are writing today that Sea Lion could contain 1.5 to 2 billion barrels of oil!

But if one reads what Dr. Phil Richards from the British Geological Survey has to say:

”60 billion barrels of reserves has been quoted in the media ???

……following the 1998 drilling campaign, I published (with a colleague from Shell) a geochemical analysis suggesting that the source rock in the basin north of the Falklands could have been capable of generating and expelling anything from about 1.2 billion barrels of oil to over 60 billion barrels of oil.
However, that’s an analysis of the amount of oil that may have been generated from the source rock.
Only a very small percentage — maybe 10% — of any such hydrocarbons are likely to make it into a reservoir rock, and even if they do, and haven’t all leaked to the surface millions of years ago, only about 35% of that oil is likely to be extractable from the reservoir”

A quick calculation using Dr. Richards most optimistic figures would result in:
60 billion divided by 10, divided again by 3 = 2 billion barrels.
Also……………..2 billion extractable oil from the whole North Basin…… At best….

Isn’t it a bit optimistic to ”Think” that ALL that nice oils has concentrated at Sea Lion?

Think - oil expo is still not an exact science otherwise such investments wouldn't be high risk. The predictions are based on geological models and what seismic was available (seismic finds sands and not a huge amount more). The analysis looks for trap points. The big test is drilling and wireline logging.

What is interesting about Sea Lion is that the drill revealed Sea Lion and additional sands that have been called Sea Lion 2. This was not picked up on seismic so is a bonus. Also lower sands have not yet been flowed dur to a gun misfire.

It is very difficult to do the sums which is why RPS make conservative estimates on their CPR with a huge range (P90, P10 etc.)! Because of a lack of additional seismic following the SL drill they could not issue a new CPR and to avoid potential legal ramifications they would have had to downgrade to 170mill (to be appropriately conservative)!

Sea lion could be a monster and yes there could be 1 billion when the fans of SL and SL2 have been fully appriased. This is clearly odds against but I still think we will find well in excess of 242 million! 400-500? this is based on a probability only perspective! Mr Moody knows how the city works as well and is a savvy character with what info he releases.

The interesting point was after the seismic was re-analyzed with the drill results that a second feeder system was suggested. This is why sea-lion may be huge huge huge!!!!!

The 1998 drilling was a fairly rushed job with some wells not even logged. I suspect RKH may look right next door to sea-lion at some point as Chatam flowed live oil.

In summary all calcs from seismic are wide estimates and multiple drill are required on each find to prove up the reserve.

The North Sea was only estimated at 30billion but since then over 60 billion have been extracted or logged as reserves.

Time will tell what the FI story will be and 1998 was simply the canapés. We are onto the appetizer with multiple courses to come :-)

Beef so you want to talk about masturbating you should come to South Armagh and you would have some fluids coming out of your sad little body like a lot of little assholes like youwho joined your army of the London City.You sound like a brave man but i bet you are a fat litlte WASP in front of a computer who couldnt get it up in front of Sophia Loren

#171 A little too optimistic if you take into count the people involved, like our pirat friend the OBE Lewis Clifton from desire petroleum..
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf

(172) Beef

Sorry lad….
But I believe much more in the 1998 British Geological Survey and the results at hand than in all that Mumbo Jumbo from some oily con artists chasing the Jackpot…..

My prediction, (for what it is worth)…….

The current Rockhopper drill will be a duster. They have already built in the excuse by stating it to be: “Out of their self-proclaimed discovery zone”.

Next Rockhopper drill; “the appraisal” will be a long story with all the ingredients of a Brazilian Soap Opera: Sidetracks, Weather, technical difficulties………you name it.

They will finally downgrade Sea Lion to something between 100-150 Million barrels to keep interest alive for the rest of the campaign without risking jail sentences.

Let’s hope I’m right :-)

Sophia Loren must be what ..... 80 something ??

Into mature women are we O'Gaga :-)

Morning all, Falkland Islands still the Falkland Islands? Yes! Magnificent ... time for breakfast :-)

Malvinas Argentina oil production 0, Revenues $66.2 million
Expenses $67.9 million (FY97/98 est.) Exports wool, hides, meat, squid $125 million (2004 est.) Imports fuel, food and drink, building materials, clothing; $90 million (2004 est.) The estimated military budget in Sterling (FY04/05) was £365 million which came from the UK defence budget, This equates to a US Dollar figure (FY04/05) of $657 million, seems to me there is not much money to be made in keeping Malvinas, as long as that 0il production figure remains ilusive, I doubt you could take investors for suckers again, brits should give it a rest and get real jobs..

The islands were being looked after way before the hydrocarbon search you dolt...

158 Fred Lopez, “Did we lose in Iraq?” Yes, like Vietnam.
“ Did we lose in Afghanistan?” Well, after figthing for 10 years, more than double of time of WW2, against a group of rebels that still control good part of that country at will, my answer is YES again.
“ I think we won in Iraq” Not sure?
“In these 10 years of war we have made some incredible achievements”
Oh yes, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents civilians, based on a big lie of Bush and Blair, and nearly bankrupting UK and US economies. No wonder we have to feed you pelado.

Beef, still trying to digest the British miracle of turning oil into water in Malvinas Argentinas? Or your economy keeps sinking?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8275945/Britain-in-battle-over-stagflation.html

177 I :
The estimated military budget in Sterling (FY04/05) was £365 million which came from the UK defence budget.

That figure, which is quoted on several websites and i've yet to find the source is wrong.

There is a rundown of costs on the UK parliment website running all the way back to 1982 and the islands have not cost us over 300 million since 1986.

The cost of the islands to the budget is 60-70 million a year. If you factor in troop wages equipment the cost raises to 100-140 million a year. Though these are not counted in the usual figure becasuse these costs are not extra because of the islands, we would have the equipment and have to pay wages regardless if the islands were not defended and this money comes from the MOD's core budget regardless of the islands.

These idiots keep thinking that if the British come to realise that the islands are not profitable then we'll leave.

They think that if they make life difficult then we'll leave.

They think that if they garner support from dozens of minor nations - democratic or dictatorial - that we'll leave.

They think that it they repeat themselves often enough in the UN, the C-24, UNASUR or any of a dozen other minor boys clubs, that we'll leave.

They think that after 29 years our dead have been forgotten and that because now they claim to be a democracy, that we'll leave.

They know us not at all!

Are you practicing a speech before some pro-FI march, Redhoyt?

hahaha

179 - are you seriously suggesting the middle east conflicts caused the economic difficulties this last few years? are you really that simple?? and i remember a certain Argentinean frigate involved in the first gulf war....

179? oh that's me,#184 my answer is no, part of it. The economic meltdown is the fault of greed, speculation, unregulated markets, even capitalism itself.

We don't have to march, there's no effective dispute!

O Gara - Thanks for the abuse, very original. FYI mother was Irish, dad is from Italian heritage and my family used to throw tomatoes etc at the Orange Lodge when they walked past the Bull Ring (now student accomodation) in Liverpool. Even had a song about Armagh sung at my wedding by my Irish cousins.

Regarding the rest of your ideotic abuse I have a am married with a 3yr old boy 90k+ salary, detached house with a Chelsea tractor parked in the driveway to which a Jag XF will be soon added. Regarding my protulance I can confirm that I did put on a few pounds after last Oct/nov work trip but will be running in the ToughGuy next Sunday as I have done for the past three years. For more info then go to www.toughguy.co.uk

(181) Hoyt

These Argies keep thinking that when the British realize that the Islands are not profitable, we'll negotiate.

They think that if they make life too expensive then we'll negotiate.

They think that if they garner support from most nations on Earth that we'll negotiate.

They think that it they make their case in the UN, the C-24, UNASUR…. that we'll negotiate.

They think that after 29 years we will start honouring our dead and that because they are now a democracy, we'll negotiate.

They know us better than we Think…………

Sorry Think .... everything I said is correct, even if it does sound like a speech by Churchill.

It takes at least 2 generations to start to forget the dead, and even then only if things remain very quiet and calm. We work with the Germans but we are only just starting to trust them not to fancy their chances again. The Russians certainly don't trust them still.

In the Falklands case 2 generations will not be enough, because it hasn't been quiet and calm since the end of the war. The time it takes to forget hasn't even started yet and for that you can thank yourselves!

There will be no negotiation unless the islander's wish it ..... and they're as bloody minded and difficult as the rest of us!

(189) WOOOOOT?

”Even if it does sound like a speech by Churchill.”
---- Sounds more like a speech by Griffin to me.

”We work with the Germans but we are only just starting to trust them”
---- You begged them to enter their European Union in 1973 and have been sleeping together with them since.

”There will be no negotiation unless the Islander's wish it”
---- The ~1.500 Island born British settlers and the other ~1.500 freshly implanted Brits will face an ever increasing pressure from South-America that will stagnate and “trim down” their society.

We can live with that….

Can they?

#180 go to wikipeadia and adjust the Military budget there your beef is with them, I am just handing to you what I know, I don't spread lies like some of your patriots do.
#181 we don't care if you leave or stay that is your shoice to make, I am an American and I have my Visa in Canada, why don't you want yours ??? is it because you are white?? or is it because I am not white ?? take your pick but stop moaning already, I am not here to hear you moan about your nationality, I am here to remind you that if I have to follow rules you should as well, if not, I'll go back to Argentina and keep all of you pirats out, and believe me in Canada I learned that the only way people like you understand is by blowing up their homes, and busynesses with them in it as it was done in Afghanistan with Muslims, adjust your sit belt it's gona be a bumpy ride.

185 - it has NOTHING to do with it you plonker

#180 Go to wikipedia and change the military budget for Islas Malvianas Argentina yourself, I am not spreading lies, I am just passing it to you, your beef is with them not me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Falkland_Islands
#181 I am an American living in Canada and I have a visa to be here witch I applyed for by choice, why don't you not want a visa ?? is it because caucatians don't need a visa or is it because you think caucatians own the world and other ethnic groups have no rights ?? we are learning from Iraq how brits need to be treated. anything english will become a target when we are done, have a safe trip home, we care not that you destroy your own natural non-renewhable resources, but do it in our land and I will make sure you never comeback from where I send you, mean time enjoy your stay in Islas Malvinas Argentina but don't get too cosy since all the pest in Malvinas will be removed, as long as you guys find the oil you can stay but when the oil production get to a level that might interest China or North Korea let us know we might trade it for a few nukes to cleanse our islands and claim our oil, mean time spend, spend, spend your money.

The thought of Argentina having nuclear weapons is as bad as Iran having them. Just as well we have a nice nearby airport.

Interested to read about Sea Lion facts and figures.

nuclear weapons is a right for all nation who live under occupation, thieves and pirats do not understand any other means, pest are not given space to roots, they need to be exterminated as they treat other races in the world.

@195 & other ridiculous posts too numerous to mention,senorito “I”.
l'd say that your parents will be glad when you go back to school on monday morning. you are a complete plonker & should be locked up or even casterated so that you don't breed anymore idiots like yourself.
you are even more of a hero than silly Marcos & l didn't think that was possible. you'll NEVER get these islands, little man. because they are ALL OURS.
@181Redhoyt, good speach,so what if its Churchillian. totally agree!
@188Think, we have absolutely no intention of“negotiating”anything about sovereignty with you.
@157Marcos, but you are sadly misinformed my dear chap. lt IS our land and we are not 14,000kms away. We are HERE on our lsland and you are 400kms away. go back to school and do some more maths(but don't read a lying Argentine history book, though!).

Hitler had similar views.

Back to Sea Lion, the web confirms 242 million barrels but as you say with a significant upside. So bags of potential. And with petrol about to hit £8 a gallon - get it drilled fast!!!

(196) Cher Isolde

You say:
”188 Think, we have absolutely no intention of “negotiating”anything about sovereignty with you.”

I say:
Post No.188 was not directed at you, dear Southern Squatterette.
It was directed at the Big Brutish Boreal Bully.

Makes no difference ... Comrade Think, you are inclined to 'wishful Thinking'

Not reality!

If you do not 'know' your enemy, how can you beat him?

@198Think, well thats good to know Cher Think. so that means you won't be bothering us about trying to steal our land anymore.
But come for a visit, do the “touristy” thing. we'll make you welcome, just be sure you leave when your holiday is over. Saludos

@153

“I guess, Malvinas is a split Nation over this issue.
“Monty69” and “Islander1” surely in favor of it.
“Isolde” and “WestisBest” certainly against.”

Certainly in your mind perhaps think but incorrect I'm afraid, I'm all for the smoking ban. Never mind, you must be used to being wrong by now.

(200) Cher Isolde
Thanks for your kind invitation but……..
As a Patagonian, if I want to see “Malvinas Scenery” I just look out of the window.
And, if I should get the urge to practice my primitive English, I’ll drive a couple of hours to my little nearby town where there is an exquisite pick of Paddy, Jock, Taffy and Yank accents.
Anyhow…. In case things should change faster than planned;…………. shall I bring you some cigarettes?

(201) WestisBest
Just gathering info…
Old habit………… sorry……
Not so many foulmouthed anti-smokers in Gran Malvina I gather ;-)

Think you must be occupying land stolen from Chile.

(203)

Educate yourself mate….

My little province (~the size of the UK) “went to the Argentine on a Welsh vote” as you can hear at minute 6:38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6m8va59jPM&feature=player_embedded#!

What a Turnip.......

Yes, votes count don't they? The will of the people? Dare I say, self determination?

Ah mate, not even a chuckle.

Yes, people’s votes count…..

Chile and Argentina agreed to give the Welsh immigrants the right to settle their territorial dispute through the ballot.

It was a democratic allegiance to one of the two Countries.

Nothing to do with “Self Determination”.

There was never a question of voting Patagonia’s Independence or for her to become a “Colony”, “Overseas Territory” or “County” of Great Britain.

Yes, people’s votes count……

In the Country they are Citizens or Legal Residents of.

NOT where they were implanted and upholded by force.

“Go to wikipedia and change the military budget for Islas Malvianas Argentina yourself, I am not spreading lies, I am just passing it to you, your beef is with them not me.”

I have no wish to correct every inaccuracy in the internet, but seeing as i post on this very website i will correct yours.

I never accused you of spreading lies. You are however, spreading inaccuracies.

Are you accusing “Justin Kuntz” aka Wee Curry Monster of writing inaccuracies on Wikipedia?

Wooow..... You are paying with fire, you turnip sprout......

Glad to see you agree votes count in recent times it hasn't always been the case in Argentina as I think you will agree.
Not sure about the distinction whereby descendants of what you term implanted people have less rights than what you term immigrants. There is even an argument that the Welsh immigrants were implanted because survival would have been just about impossible without support from the Argentine Government. The interest for Argentina was to use the Welsh settlers to counter the native peoples in the region who at that time favoured Chile.
I think you meant to say upheld by force but surely you agree that when threatened by a foreign power every Country has the right of self defence.

(209)

No, I don’t agree with anything you say…..

First,……. you show your brainwashed ignorance about anything Patagonian by telling me that I: ”Must be occupying land stolen from Chile.”

Proven wrong; you try to tell me that: ……”The interest for Argentina was to use the Welsh Settlers to counter the native peoples in the region who at that time favoured Chile”

The native people favoured Chile ?...What a big bucket of horse manure !

At that time the native people of Patagonia didn’t ”favour” no one….

They were more than busy running away from any white Argentinean, Chilean , British or Romanian man in the region.

And with good reason…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Popper_en_caceria.jpg

Why don’t you just keep posting your usual ”Turnipies” instead of commenting about things you obviously have not the slightest idea about?

Bit sensitive aren't we today?
Maybe you should go and have a quiet smoke to calm your nerves and get back to your supercilious and childish best.
I see though that you are unwilling to expand on your ludicrous distinction between Immigrants and “Implanted” peoples. Could that be because you know its nonsense.
The democratic allegiance of the Falkland Islanders is to the United Kingdom, accept it and move on. There's a good fellow.

That's more like it.....

That's your “Turnipy” style.
Keep it up....
Nothing can go wrong with it.

Have a nice life

192 Y Draig Goch ,“The three trillion dollar war”( 2008, you can imagine by now salamin)
The cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have grown to staggering proportions
The Bush Administration was wrong about the benefits of the war and it was wrong about the costs of the war. The president and his advisers expected a quick, inexpensive conflict. Instead, we have a war that is costing more than anyone could have imagined“

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

196 Señorita lsolde,”don't read a lying Argentine history book”
OK, but soon that I read any official British history, you and your neighbors pressure your government to change it. Please make up your mind.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article3419840.ece

You too mate.

All these smug ignorant remarks from the Argentine fools just reflect what a strange nation they are. Corrupt police and justice are par for the course. Corrupt and criminal politicians - what more do we have?

They are scared to go to the ICJ because they know they have no real case;furthermore, as their justice system is so corrupt they believe that the ICJ judges are equally corrupt.

The matter is just no worth getting involved. Just ignore them!

“NOT where they were implanted and upholded by force.”

Isn't that how what became Argentina was forged think? sure you then wrested your independance from Spain which of course makes sure your Argentine hands are clean of the evil colonial acts that resulted in your existance...Strange how, according to you, independance would not confer such immunity and respectability for Falkland Islanders....Odd that.....double standards as usual eh Think?

(216) WestisBest

You say:
”Strange how, according to you, independance would not confer such immunity and respectability for Falkland Islanders....Odd that.....double standards as usual eh Think?”

What I wrote in another thread was:
“A pro forma “independence” replacing your current pro forma “self-government” wouldn’t solve any of “our” problems……Nor yours.....”

I say :
The key words in my text were: ”PRO-FORMA independence”.

Strange how …you just “omitted” the key word: “PRO FORMA”… Odd that… Double standards as usual eh… WestisBest?

Are you Islanders prepared to adopt “factual” independence ?

Give up your British Citizenship ?

Tell the British Military to leave the Islands ?

Let Argentinean companies compete on equal free market terms with any other companies from any other Country in the import, export, retail, real estate, energy, transport, oil, agro, fishing and tourism business ?

What would the Islanders answers for the above questions be…. would you think?

They'd say stop the economic blockade and let free trade commence maybe? ... just a thought Think

Or they could just say mind your own business.

Chuckle Chuckle.

Oh come on, Be serious now Be serious....latin types with nothing to complain at? what else would they have to do if they gave that up!

@206: The European settlers of Patagonia were implanted & their rule upheld with deadly force against the express will of the indigenous peoples, who were exterminated

There was nothing democratic or legal about the annexation of Patagonia into the Argentine state; it is remarkable that at the time the British reoccupied the Falklands Argentina did no extend much beyond the Mar del Plata - so much for the spurious claim that the Falklands were near Argentina & part of its territorial integrity... laughable, if Argentina wasn't serious when it is so plainly untrue

Argentina persecutes the Falklanders because they are an ethnic minority and uses this discriminatory policy to advance their own narrow nationalistic agenda; it is wholly unnecessary, as Argentina could legitimately advance its claim without its hostile acts contrary to resolution 1514(XV) for which Argentina voted to apply to the Falklands & the UN Charter of which Argentina is a signatory

The fact is Falklanders are legal residents of the Falkland Islands a British Overseas Territory & are British citizens, where there votes count

N.B. Think, Argentine opinions & votes do not count in the Falklands or Britain, nonetheless they are courteous people & are willing to discuss Argentine attacks on them and their freedom in largely good humour, I doubt Argentines would entertain such threats against themselves with such good composure

The right thing to do is for Argentina to take its complaints to the UN ICJ, it is certainly wrong for Argentina to intimidate & coerce the innocent & peaceful islanders and to use bigotry to incite mob hatred against them, when they have done no wrong, and to use this bigotry to justify systematic discrimination against the Islanders as scapegoats in Argentina's perverted politics

Argentina constitution may pledge to protect them from this state sponsored hatred, but they have no reason to believe the sincerity of Argentine pseudo-democratic promises

Shame on Argentina

If only it hadnt shattered resolution 31/49 by invading the Islands, never mind the other infringements of the same resolution, Argentina might be on a much more positive foot. Talk about own goal, Maradonna couldnt have hand-balled a better one!

Think, If we became a fully Independent Member of the Commonwealth why should those who have a right to a British passport be forced to give it up? After all why could we not have 2 passports(UK and Falkland Islands) - just like many thousands of Argentines have two?
Probably all of the things you mention could be possible - but only if Argentina with our Independence, simultaneously drops and forgoes all territorial claims and removes that claim form her constitution.
Why is it that you fail to understand the British forces are here for one reason and one alone - to protect us from a belligerent neighbour who claims our home. UK would be delighted to withdraw them if they were not needed here!
Even today there is nothing from our side that prevents imports from Argentina - logistically they would have to be routed through Brazil at present - but what does stop them is Arg refusal to produce the standard International documentation that goes with any export from one country into another.

“ ... Tell the British Military to leave the Islands ...”

Now why would that have to happen. After all an independent nation can rent some land to a foreign power to use, as Cuba did or there could be a defence treaty. Full independence, guaranteed by some visiting 'friends'.

Still not Thinking?

:-)

(223) Islander

Utopic but……………….. I can give it 5 minutes…………..

After a United Nations guaranteed bilateral official agreement for a “genuine” Declaration of Independence, a contingent of UN troops could swiftly replace the British troops if you considered it necessary.

It goes without saying that because the obvious geographical and structural realities that you all know to well, a speedy economical integration with the region would occur.

But Argentina would be compelled to treat you as a preferred partner and give you equal or better commercial terms than Chile, Uruguay or Brazil could offer in order to keep your business.

If Britain doesn’t oppose, I can see no reason why you shouldn’t be able to enjoy dual nationality. (Triple if you so wished)

Gee ….. 12 minutes … not so bad…...

And then what would you want to do with the new military base on South georgia ?

Ask you politely to leave....

It worked for you in 1833 :-)

Think, only real problem I forsee is - as you say its Utopia - a practical solution where everybody could say they have got what they want but nobody has lost , worthy of serious consideration but rather you than me in trying to sell it to the Casa Rosada!
But we do seem to have found something to agree on - there is hope in life!
White Helmets - no thanks though, they have a good record of standing and watching nasty things happen in front of them because of political handcuffs.

Think - in 1833 we were bigger then you ....

..... we still are :-)

Stepping stones Think, remember stepping stones !

Yuppppp.....

Back to stupid reality..............

Ps:
They are called Blue Helmets.... not White...........

The only contribution you make to the UN is no stop irritation to every nation (musical!)... about your incessant nagging about the Falklands and wrongly whinging about 31/40, when yourselves have been the biggest transgressors!

Think @ 204 & 206: self-determination is not simply limited to or just exercised on the issue of independence but also in precisely the situation you describe with the Welsh Patagonians. You accidentally, but tellingly, slipped off the official Argentine line there didn't you, Think? Ya' turnip!

“It goes without saying that because the obvious geographical and structural realities that you all know to well, a speedy economical integration with the region would occur.”

That could and would happen anyway Think if Argentina would just allow it, it was happening prior to Argentinas rash, precipitous actions in 1982. The invasion knackererd any possibility of such a relationship for a generation....then in 2010 you knacker the possibility of such integration again, a whole new generation of Falkland Islanders who were not even born in 1982 now have every reason to distrust and shun you. Good job Argentina, shooting yourself in the foot seems to be a speciality of yours.

Cant have much of its feet left? At least Carlos menem was willing to talk, then Nestor and Cristina come bouncing along and mess a decades worth of hard work over the islands, all in the aid of cheap votes.

(232) PominOz

Good that you didn’t drown up there…..

You should read about the Chubut Walley Welsh Referendum before passing such a rash judgment.
There were jurists in the 19th century too you know?
Neither Chile nor Argentina were the least interested in granting any kind of secessionist self-determination rights to any of the multiple immigrant ethnicities in their respective Countries.
It is also abundantly mentioned in the BBC video………………

235, Think: my point being that self-determination as we know it today (not in the 19th Century) is not just about exercising one's right to independence, but the right to choose the future of one's country. In the case of the Falkland Islands, that is to freely determine, without any pre-conditions being imposed by any other party, whether to become an independent nation, to continue with the present situation of being a British Overseas Territory or even to decide to become part of Argentina or any other country.
Self-determination these days doesn't require that any country agree to the exercising of that right - it is a fundamental principle of the United Nations and applies to the Falkland Islands and the Falkland Islanders. There is no special category for the Falkland Islands, despite what Argentina says. The constant refrain of the Islanders being an “implanted” population and that therefore the right to self-determination does not apply to them is utter rubbish. This is a smokescreen designed by Argentina to try to justify its refusal to allow the Islanders the same human rights as every other human being on the planet. Just because the Government of Argentina repeatedly says that the Falkland Islands are a special case, and you lot have fallen for this lie, does not make them so.
Anyhow, thanks for not wishing me drowned! I was in no danger as I live down here, rather than up there! If you know what I mean!

Give up your British Citizenship ?

Think, when a territory becomes independent, the UK enacts legislation determining what happens regarding British citizenship. Without checking specifically, I think the laws generally go something like this:

1) Those whose citizenship is not connected with the territory that becomes independent (eg birth or naturalisation in the UK or another territory) keep their citizenship.

2) Those whose citizenship is connected with the territory (eg birth or naturalisation in the territory), but have a parent whose British citizenship is not connected with the territory either keep it or can apply for it on grounds of descent. (I'm not sure whether its automatic, or they specifically have to apply for it.)

3) Those whose citizenship is connected with the territory and do not qualify for British citizenship on grounds of descent lose their British citizenship if they become citizens of the new state.

The new state can provide for those in 1) and 2) to become citizens of the new state, eg if they have Belonger Status. If the new state doen't allow dual citizenship, then those in 1) and 2) would have to decide which citizenship to opt for.

“Tell the British Military to leave the Islands ?”

Any state has the right to defend itself. An independent Falkland Islands is no different. If it does not have the means to defend itself, it can enter into an agreement with another state to provide for its defence. In the case of the Falklands that would most likely be the UK. However, if there is no territorial claim, or threat, or potential threat, then the only military they need would be their own defence force.

“Let Argentinean companies compete on equal free market terms with any other companies from any other Country in the import, export, retail, real estate, energy, transport, oil, agro, fishing and tourism business ?”

But the problem is not Argentina competing, but trying to establish monopolies & thus forcing dependence on Argentina.

-1) we can have independence if we want it & we can become citizens of which ever country we choose(that is if they will have us).
-2) we can choose any nation's defending force here
-3) we can restrict any nationality we like from coming here
lt is none of Argentina's business what choices we make.
got that, amigoes, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS,as les americains say“butt out”
lts OUR land and we will do what we like here, if you don't like, tough.

(236) PominOz

You say…:
”Self-determination these days doesn't require that any country agree to the exercising of that right - it is a fundamental principle of the United Nations and applies to the Falkland Islands and the Falkland Islanders”

I say…:
The UN principle of “Self- determination of the Peoples” does not apply to the Falklands settlers for the simple reason that they do not constitute a “People”
They are BRITISH citizens implanted in a BRITISH settlement dating from 1833.
This settlement was militarily conquered (from Argentina) and uphold by Britain since and kept as ethnically clean as possible.
So much is being debated about the inherent “birth-right” of the many settler families………
Reality is that today, by Falklands Law, a person born in the Islands hasn’t any right of birth or citizenship if their parents don’t fulfill all the stringent residence requirements ….or have the right descendence….

You say, in addition………:
”There is no special category for the Falkland Islands, despite what Argentina says.”
And…:
”Just because the Government of Argentina repeatedly says that the Falkland Islands are a special case, and you lot have fallen for this lie, does not make them so.”

I refer you to the United Nations:

** ”Special and particular colonial situation in the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)” **

1. ”Reiterates that the way to put an end to the special and particular colonial situation in the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) is the peaceful and negotiated settlement of the dispute over sovereignty between the Governments of the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland......

http://www.argentina.org.au/Resolucion%202007%20-A-AC.109-2007.L.8.-ingles-pdf.pdf
or, if you prefer:
http://www.argentina.org.au/Resolucion%202007%20-A-AC.109-2007.L.8.-ingles-pdf.pdfo/history/undecolinisation2003.html

And yes.... I know what you “mean”
From where I stand, in South Patagonia, you certainly live “Up There”
Geographically and legally.
(Pun intended :-)

Think - your link merely goes to a C-24 document.

The UNGA have nothing in their founding charters that suggest there is any exception to the rule. The C-24 does not have enough power to change that. Therefore the Resolutions of the UNGA overide those of a sub-committee. and a discredited sub-commiittee at that.

In other words - you are wrong.

But if you think not, then take it to the ICJ :-)

“Reality is that today, by Falklands Law, a person born in the Islands hasn’t any right of birth or citizenship if their parents don’t fulfill all the stringent residence requirements ….or have the right descendence….”

that's bullshit, birth does confer FI status to anyone born in the Falklands.

#196 you are right I will never get Malvinas, Argentina, but Argentina will ! what would I want with a floating piece of ice drifting in the ocean ?? I am sure to the integrity of Argentina it means a lot, and I support Argentina, have you got a problem with that ?? put up or STFU, NEXT!
Malvinas Argentina oil production = 0 I checked again this morning, nothing has changed what is all this talk about figures of millions and millions of nothingness. LOL
here is what happend to all that money, don't panic only the those who invested in fakland will lose their pants, do not panic is only worthless papers now, be happy there is no disaster, yet.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf

He's wriggling like a barrel full of eels.
Any reasonable person would simply accept that the Islanders have a right to choose their destiny. This is the 21st Century for goodness sake.

Julio Argentino Roca is an interesting genocidal person. He extended Argentine territory into Patagonia by exterminating the then residents. His tactics were to “extinguish, subdue or expel” the native population. What a nasty piece of 19th century work.

Redhoyt and WestisBest: couldn't have put it better myself. I was going to say that, regardless of the fact that the discredited C24 calls the Falkland Islands a “special and particular colonial situation”, it is the dispute that is the special and particular situation. It does not affect the right of the Falkland Islanders to determine their own future.
The lie that the Falkland Islanders are not a people is the desperate attempt by Argentina to deprive the Islanders of their inalienable right to self-determination. We've been through this before, Think.
If there were degrees of self-determination, the Islanders would have a better degree of self-determination than the majority of present day Argentinians, descended from European immigrants, since the Islanders, descended from European immigrants, did not subjugate or supplant an indigenous population. However, there are no degrees of self-determination so it's a distinction without a difference.
Your version of history is flawed - and you know it, Think. However, there are a number of posters here who have a far greater grasp of the history, so I'm not going to add my amateur views!
Finally, adding to what WestisBest says; unless the immigration/citizenship laws have changed in the Falklands in the last couple of years, what you say, Think, is not correct.
The law in the Falkland Islands is no more stringent than those currently applicable in the UK. In fact, it is probably less stringent in a number of ways that I'm not going to go into - no time and very little space!

#243 doesn't change the fact that Malvinas, Argentina occupation is ilegal and the ilegal aliens have no righs of anything since governor Luis Vernet back in 1833 was not democratically dispose of, as a matter of fact he was criminally removed, making the whole occupation an international crime, why would UN allow for international crimes to happen, unless this is the new world order where terrorits and bullys go around killing inocent people, Argentina is not at war with our natives as a matter of fact we think the natives deserve to get Malvinas Argentina back and we will get it for them, this is how commited we are.

www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf

Well done I. That link shows that we don't let our crooks get away with it. In Argentina on the other hand, you elect them.

Be interesting to see how Dilma Rousseff , the former guerrilla gets on with the Peronist crooks in Argentina's government

@242 I. You would like that wouldn't you. you would like us to shut up & allow Argentina to do as it pleased. you don't like resistance, but nino, its not going to happen. this is our land and has bugger all to do with you or your country. So you, STFU, big mouth.!
@245 I. you living in fantasyland again, my lad??? HOW, just HOW do you intend to take our land(not yours, ours) are you going to nuke us?, maybe love us to death? you say that our land is a piece of ice floating in the ocean, maybe, but its our ice and our ocean, not yours.(and our oil, if there is any!!).
your facts are wrong too, old bean. there were no natives on our islands when we came here. just some trespassing soldiers who we sent home.
now what do you think happened to those soldiers when they got back to BA?
as for your commitment, why don't you commit yourselves to assisting the 30% of your population who are poor?

(244) Pomin Oz

You start by telling me, very clearly, that:
--”Just because the Government of Argentina repeatedly says that the Falkland Islands are a special case, and you lot have fallen for this lie, does not make them so.”—

Then, when confronted with the official documentation of the United Nations body in charge of the Falkland/Malvinas Issue you just begin to rant about it being discredited…….

Factt is that these UN documents exist…. They are NOT a lie invented by the Argentineans.

Furthermore…. The settlers of the Falkland Islands do not constitute, by any national or international standard, a “Distinct People”

They are British…..
They want to be British….
They are on record, millions of times, declaring to the World that they are British….

Therefore……… As British citizens, they have their full human and political rights in Britain
Not in an occupied and disputed territory 14.000 km away from their Motherland.

Ps:
I notiiced that many of the British posters here have chosen to engage in some “positive opinion exchange” with “ I ” previously known in here as “Avargas” :-)))
Anybody remembers him?
Not difficult to win an argument against that Argie turnip and, of course, he gives you a welcomed opportunity of retribution by insulting the rest of Argentina.
Have fun…………………

err ... the official documentation you refer to Think is a proposal for a Resolution submitted by ” ...Bolivia, Chile, Cuba and Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of):” ... which a) makes it less than official, and b) makes it biased.

Now .. if you can come up with a UNGA or a SC Resolution that refers to the Falklands as a 'special case', I'll be impressed. ..... albeit not very much :-)

Argentina's idea is that is you repeat a lie often enough and loud enough people will start to believe it .... but in this case we know, so therefore, you're screwed!!

the islanders ARE NOT on an occupied land, they're on THEIR land .... get used to it!

You version of history is screwed, your version of UN Resolutions is screwed, your understanding of International Law is screwed .... so, if you'll excuse me repeating myself .... are you!! :-)

(241) WestisBest

You say:
Birth does confer FI status to anyone born in the Falklands.

I just checked:…..That is false….
For example… ….: A baby born in the Islands from a Chilean couple on a work permit does NOT qualify for citizenship.
In comparison……: A baby born in Argentina from any foreign national, automatically qualifies for Argentinean citizenship.
Check it………..

(250) Hoyt

Errr…….
I link again, just for you the Resolution adopted by the Special Committee at its 9th meeting, on 18 June 2004.:
http://www.falklands.info/history/undecolinisation2003.html

I posted those documents not to discuss the British disregard for the UN but to rebut PominOz’s opinion about “Malvinas, a special case” being just an Argentinean lie.
Well….. It isn’t… It is the official UN Position
Get used to it

National or International standards to define a distinct people!? Sounds like something out of Nazi Germany.

No chuckles to that.

Sigh! Think, what the C24 means by “special” and what Argentina tries to imply by calling the Islands a “special” case are two different things. When you and your Government say that the Islands are a special case, what you are trying to imply is that the Islanders don't have the right to self-determination, as the Islanders, as you say yourself, are not a “people”. That is the lie. They are a “people” and they are entitled to self-determination. The principle does not only apply to a people wanting to be independent, but it also applies to a people wanting to remain in association with another sovereign nation or wanting to join another sovereign nation. I'd be willing to lay a few bob on the fact that if a majority of the Islanders wanted the Islands to be part of Argentina, you and your Government would be crying yourselves hoarse urging Britain to respect the Islanders right to self-determination!
As for the Islands' nationality laws, you are right in the example that you give that the child would not have Falkland Islands status nor British citizenship. However, the child would, I believe, have Chilean citizenship and so would not be stateless.
You say that, in a similar situation in Argentina, the child would have Argentine citizenship (as well as Chilean nationality?). Well, I don't know the laws of Argentina, so I can't comment. What I can comment upon is the fact that in the UK, the child would not have British citizenship, nor if the child were born in similar circumstances in any other BOT, or Aussie citizenship here in Australia, or Kiwi citizenship in New Zealand. In relation to Argentina, the nationality laws in the Falkland Islands may seem strict, but this isn't due to any ulterior motive, as you seem to imply, but simply because that is how the nationality laws are applied in most Commonwealth countries. In fact, the UK fairly recently stopped foreign spouses automatically gaining UK citizenship. However, this isn't the case in the Islands.

Keep telling you Think, the C-24 is irrelevant.

Now .... no UNGA Resolutions saysing that the islands are the special case that Argentina says they are?

No SC Resolutions suggesting that self-determination doesn't apply?

It's not the UN's official policy Think ....and the only way you have of getting the matter decided is via the ICJ ... which you won't go to.

So nothing changes .... get used to it!

Absolutely Redhoyt!
And to make it absolutely clear, Think, when the C24 says that the Falkland Islands are a “special and particular situation” it is simply referring to the fact that there is a sovereignty dispute. It's there in the statements made by the C24.
Argentina, on the other hand, has deliberately misinterpreted the meaning of the “special and particular situation” to try to imply that the Falkland Islanders do not have the right of self-determination because the Islanders are not a “people”. This is a deliberate lie and why I say, in the context that Argentina means it, the Falkland Islands are not a special case.
The UN Charter gives gives all peoples the right of self-determination. The C24 cannot abrogate these rights. Where the C24 discredits itself is in avoiding the issue in its “requests” for Argentina and the UK to sit down and try to solve the dispute; although I do see from the linked documents to the resolution that you posted, a number of countries on the committee are aware of the issue and are decidedly uncomfortable with Argentina's views on the matter.
It is also interesting to note that the paramount principle of the UN Decolonization Committee is the interests of the peoples of the various non-self-governing territories on its list. And what are those interests if not the right to determine their own future?

(253) PominOz

Sight?
You sighting at me ?

I sight at all those uninformed or untrue comments.

Like this at 203:
”Think you must be occupying land stolen from Chile”

Or this at 236:
”Just because the Government of Argentina repeatedly says that the Falkland Islands are a special case, and you lot have fallen for this lie, does not make them so.”—

Or this at 241:
”That's bullshit, birth does confer FI status to anyone born in the Falklands.”

A microscopic sample......SIGHT!………

Couple of questions Think, just to help your thought processes -

1. The C-24's work is subject to the scrutiny of the Fourth Committee which considers the C-24's Draft (Note that word) resolutions and considers which should be forwarded to the General Assembly for consideration. Q - How many Draft Resolutions from the C-24 regarding the Falkland Islands have been pushed through by the Fourth Committee in the last 10 years? (Please try and keep your answer under 500 words :-)

2. Multi-choice question this time Think, just to make it easier. Ok,Q - how effective have the C-24 been in achieving their objectives in the last 5 years - is the answer
a) Quite a lot
b) Not a lot
c) Bloody useless

Answers on a postcard please :-)

No, Think, I wasn't “sighting” at you, I was “sighing” at you!
As I hope that I've demonstrated, my comment that Argentina lies when it says that the Falklands are a special case, is neither uninformed nor untrue.
And I'm not going to go into the uninformed and untrue postings from those who support your side - who has the time?! I'll simply mention the names “I” (or gassy - mind you, I'm not too sure what he is trying to say most of the time! It could be snesible, though I doubt it. It's just not in any language known to man!), O gara, Marcos A, xbox, axel arg, Kiwisarse...need I go on?! Mentalists, the lot of them!

The new US Republican congress is looking for gut all subsidies to the UN. let's see how they get along on 6B less this year :)

256 Gosh you are a sensitive soul.
Now you know how those distinct Kelpers must feel when you and your mates dispute their right to reside on their Falkland Island paradise.
That said the Chile/Argentine border does also appear to be in dispute as it runs through southern Patagonia.

Sigh……. My engrish very bad, sorry :-)

What the UN means with “Special and Particular Colonial Situation” is, as everything else at the UN, a matter of interpretation.

If one reads the comments of the diverse C24 delegates during the last 7 years, it becomes clear that there is a majority that interprets it as Argentina does.
That’s the reason why Great Britain would like them to be irrelevant…..But they are not...........

Nevertheless, the wording: “Special and Particular Colonial Situation” has been included in every resolution since 2004
The word Self-determination has not been mentioned once.

Not in this case, Think. The reason why the C24 calls the Falklands a “special and particular situation” is very clear from its own press releases: the special and particular situation is the dispute over sovereignty.
If the special case related to the issue of self-determination then the C24 would need spell this out very, very, very explicitly, since the right to self-determination is enshrined in the UN's Charter. The C24 does not state that the Islanders do not have the right of self-determination (nor, as you say, does it state that they do). Therefore, by necessary implication, the Islanders must have the right of self-determination. In any event, because the right of self-determination is enshrined in the UN's Charter, the C24 couldn't take the right of self-determination away.
One only needs to look at the list of the countries on the C24 to know why a majority support Argentina. But, as the likes of Redhoyt point out, the C24 is neither here nor there. Neither is the UN GA. Maybe something from the UN SC. But none of them can take away the right of self-determination.
The ICJ, Think. The ICJ is the only international body that can be definitive. But Argentina won't go near the place on this issue. Won't even be a member of the ICJ for fear of its lies being found out.

(262)
“Therefore, by necessary implication, the Islanders must have the right of self-determination”.......................................................................... IF THEY WERE A “PEOPLE”; what they aren't.

They identify themselves as British, they are legally British, they are genetically British and they were forcibly implanted by the British Colonial Empire in 1833.

You know this argument actually may stem from an Argentinian character flaw I noticed when I was living there. If you ask any Argentinian where they are from the will not say Argentina. They will tell you their familial origin, Spanish, Basque, Italian etc. They NEVER say Argentinian. Maybe that is where this “They are British not Falklanders” is coming from.

@fred Do you mean that there are some parts of the Argentine character that are not flaws?

They are an odd lot.
Very emotional and rather excitable.
Also I think they may have a vegetable fetish.

259 fredbdc , “The new US Republican congress is looking”...like cry babies.

This guy is their new leader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8k9RsrRtYo

At least CFK spends the stolen millions wisely:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3203654/cristina_fernandez_de_kirchner_al_natural/

Don't forget to watch your President Mr Obama tonight, Where's Sarah and McCain? I almost forget...the rednecks republicans got their rear end kicked out of office.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kiW0S-LJvI

Filthy Corrupt and Dishonorable

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1426561/corrupt_voting_in_argentina/

Teaboy who are you referring to you some of George Bushes cabinet?
Think you are wasteing your time trying to educate these people.The real news once more confirming my analysis of the future where the City comes to Argentina comes from London tonight.The English economy has once again collapsed into recession.Yes while Argenyina grew over 9% in the last quarter of 2010 England contracted 0,5% and this is before the huge public pay cuts and VAT increases take effect.Throw in debt at over 400% of GDP and you see just how vulnerable they are to a real collapse.Argentina must heap the pressure on in every international organization particularly in the Americas.

Teaboy? hahaha

This is just the beginning.
“This is a stunningly bad outcome: it is a performance far worse than even the most pessimistic of forecasts. Even allowing for a very substantial hit to economic activity from December's severe weather, contraction of 0.5 percent quarter-on-quarter in GDP in the fourth quarter of 2010 is extremely disappointing and worrying. This weakness cannot be put down only to the weather.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8280552/UK-economy-shrinks-market-reaction.html

Spain and Argentina tried very hard to have a resolution adopted that limited the right to self-determination in the case of a sovereignty dispute and lobbied hard to have it adopted. It was thrown out unceremoniously.

Also resolutions by the C24 are not as a matter of convention considered the voice of the UN. The voice of the UN is the General Assembly or the Security Council. The committees are supposed to recommend to the GA or SC, only if adopted do they become the voice of the UN.

PominOz is 100% correct, the reference to a special case refers to the fact that sovereignty is disputed by nation states. It makes no comment on Argentina's claims, which revolves around Paragraph 6 of Resolution 1514(XV). Paragraph 6 provides that any attempt “aimed at partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter”. Problem is paragraph 6 cannot be read to justify territorial claims. The purpose of paragraph 6 they contend was simply to ensure that acts of self-determination occur within the established boundaries of colonies, rather than within sub-regions.

Marcos also remember the Telegraph is the tory paper par excellence.
Tonight we get an even more imprtant view.The Governor of the Bank Of England(note how its England when its down to cash)Mervyn King declared “the standard of living is to plunge at the fastest rate since the 1920s”Truly bad news for a lot of people and not nice but it will also after a while put unbearable pressure on the military to cut costs and of course the ”Bank OF ENGLAND and the rest of the city will be talking to the Palacio San Martin.The reality is Argentina must do whatever is neccesary to woo Chile to the almost unanimous American view on the Malvinas.Timerman should get organized for to acheive the best results because negotiations if this continues are only a few very short years away.

Think feels he's successfully inserted the word 'Resolution' into the debate when he refers to the actions of the UN C24, when in fact Draft Resolutions only become Actual Resolutions when they are subjected to a vote.
In actual fact all Draft Resolutions made by the UN C24 are not even voted upon by the UN C24, they are all obtained by 'consensus', in other words no vote takes place, and the discredited UN C24 announces its Draft Resolutions as if they carry any weight what-so-ever, when they don't, it's all talk.
Argentina then takes this process of further by 'forgetting' to include the word 'Draft' when commenting Internationally on UN C24 Draft Resolutions, in order to lend it's feeble arguments more gravitas.
The stage after this is hoodwinking the International Community, and it's own population, into the make believe World that because the UK and FIG do not follow these 'UN Resolutions', they are therefore undertaking illegal actions.
The whole Argentine argument is therefore based on lies, mistruths, false pretences, and spin.
In short, this is Argentina behaving like the corrupt and flawed government that it is, and it only takes a few moments, and a minutes research, to see it.

Think obviously 'thinks' he can promote this bullshit here and not be found out.

Think - Wireless is quite correct.

The C-24 does not issue Resolutions, only Draft Resolutions for the Fourth Committee to consider sending to the GA. And that hasn't happened in a long time, since 1982 I think. So there are no Resolutions from the UNGA suggesting that the Falklands are 'special' in any sense. Not one!

Well done ... wrong again!

But I sympathise .......... after all, if Argentina hadn't got the C-24, then it wouldn't have any voice in the UN supporting its case at all. Nowhere to go.

So the adherence to this nonsense by Argentina is understandable. The C-24 is c) by the way 'bloody useless' ................ personally I suspect its days are numbered.

What Argentina has going forward is all that it needs.South America by the day is more and more in support of its brother nation and England is by the day weaker as tonights news from London exemplifies.The Bank of England “admits” its people are to have the fastest fall in income in ninety years as the economy falls even before its huge public sector cuts hurt and despite the ongoing recession inflation due to the printing of money stalks the land.The ultimate economic disaster inflation added to recession

Well O'gaga, you should hope we don't get too poor .... we may have to withdraw that loan we just made to Ireland!

”Furthermore…. The settlers of the Falkland Islands do not constitute, by any national or international standard, a “Distinct People”

They are British…..
They want to be British….
They are on record, millions of times, declaring to the World that they are British….

Think,
Falkland Islanders are not English, Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish. Therefore they are a distinct people.

They are not Manx, Jersey Islanders, or Guernsey Islanders, therefore they are a distinct people.

They are not Anguillians, Bermudians, British Virgin Islanders, Caymanians, Gibraltarians, Montserratians, Pitcairners, St Helenians (Tristanians), or Turks and Caicos Islanders. Therefore, they are a distinct people.

They are Falkland Islanders. A distinct people. We British are 17 distinct peoples. Self-determination cannot be denied to Falkland Islanders on the grounds that they are British without denying it the people of the other UK territories on the grounds that they are British.

“They identify themselves as British, they are legally British, they are genetically British”

None of these is criterion to deny they are a distinct people.

“and they were forcibly implanted by the British Colonial Empire in 1833.”

And this is nothing but a lie.

So at the current gdp rate of increase for Argentina and the current rate of decrease for UK when are tehy at equilibrium? 100 years? 200? I am too lazy to figure it out but for sure all of us will be long dead.

You Argies are so foolish and full of yourselves, do you not realize you are still one of the poorest, most corrupt countries in the world? It takes you a 6 month of average wages to buy an Apple laptop. Losers.

now now Fred lets play nice, they cant have apple laptops because all the cash machines are empty of notes and thier credit cards are maxed out!

The last two “rich” clowns, one needs to sell Argentinian purses to survive and the other one hopes to steal our national resources to save his collapsing “kingdom”.

MoreCrap - if you are refering to the Falkland islands, I feel that i should point out that you do not, in fact, have any national resources there .... because they don't belong to you!

” ... “and they were forcibly implanted by the British Colonial Empire in 1833....”

Nope .... nobody forced them ;-)

@251: No Think, it is not the official position of the UN and to say so is an exaggeration. Here's some UNilateral facts for you: The actual official position of the UN is defined in resolution 1514(XV). Rather this statement you refer to is only the official position of the 2004 Special Commitee on Decolonisation, who at the time consisted of a large biased group on this issue, namely: Brazil, Paraquay, Uruguay, Cuba, Venzuela, Greneda and Peru who are openly biased in Argentine's favour

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/gacol3105.doc.htm

Remembering that under resolution 1654(XVI) the UNGA directs the of the C24 to examine the application of the Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples contained in its resolution 1514 (XV) of 14 December 1960 to make suggestions and recommendations on the progress and extent of the implementation of the Declaration and to report to the General Assembly

Thus in the instance of the Falkland Islands, the C24 remit is to report what the Administering Country (in this instance the UK) is doing to implement resolution 1514(XV)for the Falklanders, i.e. the implementation of this resolution:

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/gacol3105.doc.htmo/history/resolution1514.html

The whole point about the UNGA including all British Overseas Territories in resolution 1514(XV) is to give the peoples living in them a free choice to be granted independence whether and change of their governance to a system of their choice, rather than leave them to remain under British rule without a say. Obviously the Falkland Islands is included is this process of free choice, just like all the other British Overseas Territories. It is a very fair and democratic requirement of the UNGA and should be applauded and supported; indeed Argentina voted for resolution 1514(XV) to be applied to the case of the Falkland Islands and is bound by this resolution & its implementation in the same way as
UK is

Think again Think!

#248 I don't know how UK's island ended up in Argenina's ocean but untill UK finds a way of hauling it back to britain our claims are as balid as their illegal occupation, can you see the problem we inherit ? besides Luis Vernet wasn't a soldier he was a governor of Malvinas, you can change the name but not the history, the fakland island company is a corporation not a country.
check it out here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Holdings

@285: I do! Argentina much smaller in 1832, with territories under its control extending from Buenos Aires city to about the MAr del Plata marking its frontier, i.e. about one-third of the modern province of Buenos Aires

The UK had an existing sovereignty claim dispute with Spain over the Islands, the UK agreed with Spain not to make land occupations in unoccupied South America, e.g. Patagonia & TDF except of the Spanish left left and another power other than Spain took Spanish territories the UK would be free to make its claims in South American.

Argentina began a claim for the Islands in June 1829 and sent a few troops in October 1832. Britain protested both acts of Argentina and insisted the UK had a prior sovereignty claim against Spain , sent the UK RN ships and instructed the Argentine troops left which they did

Existing differences were settled and perfect friendship was restored between the UK and AR in 1850 by peace treaty

Then Argentina expanded its frontier massively north & south between 1850-1880, in the southerly direction.

By 1880 Argentina had added the modern day provinces of La Pampa, Rio Negro, Santa Cruz and Tiera del Fuego extending its frontier some 2000km south of where it was is 1833

Argentina came 2000km south to find the British Falklands Islands in the South Atlantic, the British did not move! The Falklands have been British longer than most of modern Argentina has been Argentine

In 1943 the ruling military junta revived Argentina's claim of sovereignty of the Islands and decided to go to war about the dispute unilaterally breaking the terms of resolution 31/49 and using opressive measures to frustrate the UK's implementation of resolution 1514(XV) on the Falkland Islands, which is why the British and Falkland Islands do not wish reinstate negotiations under resolution 31/49 because Argentina broke the terms of negotiation by acts of war and continued political and economic persecution

Hope this helps

“ ... including all British Overseas Territories ...”

Small point Domingo, but I believe that South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands are a BOT which is not on the C-24's list .... even though Argentina desperately trys to include them!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_list_of_non-self-governing_territories

I also think that the C-24 official name is quite illuminating - ' the Special Committee on the Situation with Regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples '

This is what I mean about irrelevance Think, if the Committee cannot do the job it was given to do, then it is both 'discredited' and 'irrelevant'. So .... how much 'independence' has the committee achieved lately?

I(diot) - I don't think the south Atlantic is the Argentine Sea :-))

ok ok start again right after Luis Vernet became governor of Islas Malvinas Argentina ??? you jumped a few steps, for example who voted for fakland island company ?? what legitimacy if any did this election had, how many nations agreed to the theft of Argentine land ?? there is nothing new here same old BS with bias british views, bunch of mosochist drag queens.

I(diot) - Luis Vernett did not become Governor of the islands ... he was proclaimed as much by BA but was already on the islands with British permission and did not adopt the role! The British objected to BA about its ridiculous action! After all BA had no claim and no right!

teaboy the way the us and england economies are going Argentine consumers will have more spending power than any of yours very very soon.You claim to have been in Argentina I bet you big ugly wasp were rejected by a beautiful Argentine girl and that's why you are such a boludo.as for redhoyt in Ireland the public has taken the pain and unemployed people still get 190 euro.I believe in England you get about 60.Sadly theres lots of unemployed in both countries and more everyday.But as I've said the City want the poor fools like you in the monarchs army which is why you get. t apittance.By the way thanks for the loan Irish consumers are still buying English goods so the dole doesn't even get worse over there

TWIMC
Remarkable how the C24 is deemed “irrelevant” by some of the most dogged Northern British posters...…

Like “Redhoyt”, enjoying his Tory idleness among the Hmong or “Justin Kuntz” sitting in Edinburgh, constructing his perfect Wikipedia Falklands/Gibraltar reality or Wireless, the brave internet warrior from London, nurturing his public dream of taking a leak on enemy graves at Darwin.

But for some people, the C24 is not irrelevant at all.
They are waking up and smelling the coffee….
Under the masterly coaching of the FCO, the Islanders have been participating in every meeting of the C24.

Irrelevant?
Certainly not for those Southern Brions :-)

#289 ok lets say Luis Vernet wasn't the governor of Islas Malvinas Argentina, why would a ship from UK illegally occupyed Malvinas and remove the population ? you can see why this issue couldn't be resolved with the ilegal aliens and at the end they will have to chose getting an Argentine passport or go home as anyone else going into another country, it's not hard really, ask a Mexicans they can tell you anything there is to know about getting a green card, maybe brits think they are too good to apply for papers.

“But as I've said the City want the poor fools like you in the monarchs army which is why you get. t apittance”

Which is why the army is not recruiting at the moment.

And, no benefits are only slightly lower in this country my friend get's about 150 pound which is about 175 euros?

292 I: if you had done any research you would realise that your question is invalid because the UK did not remove the population only the military garrison.

I(diot) - we didn't remove the population .... they (mostly) stayed ... it was the trespassing garrison that opted to leave !

IRRELEVANT - Think!

Relevancy is measured by success and the C-24 appears to have the ability to avoid that these days! Good diplomatic practice for the FIG though ... they'll need that experience come independence.

Dream on:-)

@292 - I

You have made so many mistakes in that statement. The ship which 'expelled' the population was not British but American. The population was not expelled but told the islands were British and you can stay or go. Most stayed and lived peaceful lives.

Why would I choose to get an Argentine Passport? The Falklands is British...I have my British Passport, so why would I need an Argentine Passport to live in the Falklands. I can still see the British flag flying at GH and the Secretariat... Also I, I dont need to go home as I am already home.

You are really not that smart are you?

295 Well said.

The original purpose of the C24 was supposedly to provide a voice for the people of dependent territories, rather than relying on the delegation of the colonising power from which it seeks in its own decolonisation. Instead, because of the make up of the committee it has allowed itself to become a forum for Spain and Argentina to grand stand sovereignty claims and ignores the wishes of the very people it is supposed to represent.

As a body it is incapable of delivering a definitive verdict on any sovereignty claim. Which is why it regularly requests negotiations to settle those claims, conveniently and myopically ignoring the intransigent nature of the claimant's demands, which leave no room for negotiation.

So if in my opinion it has become irrelevant, because it has conspiculously failed to achieve its remit, that is an opinion based on objective evaluation of its performance. An opinion shared by the Gibraltar delegation who has decided to cease attendance, noting that at no time has the committee deigned to visit the territories or ask the people of those territories for their opinion.

Noting the above, all argued from the basis of constructing an argument based on the available facts, it is conspicuously obvious that El Thicko has no response, instead preferring to attack individuals who comprehensively repeatedly rebut his arguments with logic and reason.

El Thicko hides behind an anonymous pseudonym, whilst at the same time rather creepily stalking around to dig up personal information on anyone who crosses him. Co-incidentally some creep has also gone to the extensive trouble of digging up personal information to make a series of offensive phone calls to my home. Among the many reasons I chose to change my username on wikipedia.

I'm curious has this happened to anyone else who has crossed El Thicko.

297, Think is a cyber stalker, he dug up a whole bunch of info on me and his cowardly minions keep bringing up my info because they can't fight with facts so they must attack personally.
Filthy Dishonorable Cowards!

(291)
I nearly forgot to mention ”Fredbdc”, the ultimate American racist from Watch-ington, who gets its pleasure from reading and commenting the “news” about people freezing or starving to death in my Country.
A valiant honorable Anglo….
We’re not worthy!

I don't think you know what honorable and valiant mean. Those words are very foreign to an Argentinians.

You know narcissism is a personality disorder that is treatable with medication and psychotherapy maybe you should check it out.

I wish......... racism was a personality disorder treatable with medication and psychotherapy ........maybe you should check it out.

297
Nah she hasn't rang me yet to talk dirty.
I would recognise her supercilious tone anywhere.

295 Tell me buddy when you say the the population were told, the islands were Brtitish they could stay or go.WHAT HAPPENED TO SELF DETERMINATION. Think here we get to the absolute root of the english hypocricy.they will resurrect this when the time comes as the economy enters the stagflation which is inevitable with massive budget cuts allied to printing money.
Hey teaboy ahh tell us who was she this beautiful latina babe who so f...ed you up and filled you with hatred for all things Argentine.Could you not keep her happy.They tell me you gringoes arent passionate enough in bed for those Latina chicks.Dont worry Think he will recover in another ten years she really got to the poor ba...rd

Nico, you are alking 200 year diffence in law and morals, are you really that dumb?
FYI my Argentinian babe (Basque) lives here with me and couldn't wait to escape that foul place.
BTW Think, I would guess my racism would be a very big shock to my mixed-race nephew and Jewish Aunt and cousin. What a fool you are...

Comment removed by the editor.

Comment removed by the editor.

Its great to see the English so concerned with self determination hust as they were in Ireland in 1916,Las Malvinas in 1833,India in the 1930s.the list could go on and on.
Seems like we hit a chord with poor old teaboy hes getting so abusuive they censored him.seems like the chica is very hard on the poor fellow.Teaboy you should really have stuck to those boring wasp babes Buenos Aires was too exciteing atown for you

Well the post had to do with Marcos and your unhealthy obsession with my body parts. Not sure what triggered that removal...

(307) O’gara

You say:
”Teaboy you should really have stuck to those boring wasp babes Buenos Aires was too exciteing atown for you”

I say:
Outlandish ……............... I told him the same on the following thread some weeks ago :-)
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/12/27/drought-stricken-uruguay-praises-argentina-s-formidable-gesture

I even recommended him a sweet Wasp!
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/12/27/drought-stricken-uruguay-praises-argentina-s-formidable-gesture

Monkey see Monkey do...

Think. I dunno maybe something more Nebraskan or something like that.Don't worry teaboy we haven't any obsession with your bodyparts its that we are worrieb about you psycholigically.I am sure you know BA is the best place on earth for that.Tell us seeing your babe Latina do you show her all those racist posts of yours. Tut tut you goin down the tubes and insulting your own mujer and to think YOU question Argentinians honesty

“295 Tell me buddy when you say the the population were told, the islands were Brtitish they could stay or go.WHAT HAPPENED TO SELF DETERMINATION. ”

You're honestly asking why the islanders were not offered human rights(in this case being self determination) over a hundred years before human rights were created?

You two realize that Latin is not a race right? It's embarrassing but definitely not a race.

I would never live in BA again, too dirty, noisy and full of terrible people.

If I was forced to live in SA again I would live in Uruguay on the coast near Brazil or maybe Southern Chile around Frutillar.

cool down dude..
ur still a kid..
u haven't reach puberty yet..
so wait, let nature do its job..

(311) O'gara

I guess Teabags taste as bad in County Armagh as in Puerto Pirámides :-)

Or a filthy money grubbing Peronista

Tea Party 'Battle Hymn'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewm-XOsODho

Hey, you Brits - this article was written by Brits for British consumption. It obviously has that flavour.

The fact that it has not been - and possibly cannot be - repudiated by South American posters may be because of their youth, their ignorance of the legal situation and the UN & Security Council rulings, or it may be because the position is so watertight that it could not be repudiated even by the best Argentinian lawyers in their land.

I imagine that it is the last of these that is important, but there is no reason to be abusive; some of my best friends are Argentinian and we have many a good debate on the issues involved but, at the end of the day, we are civilised and educated people who agree to differ - whatever the imbalance of the argument.

“Its great to see the English so concerned with self determination hust as they were in Ireland in 1916,Las Malvinas in 1833,India in the 1930s.the list could go on and on.”

There was no right to self-determination in those days. There was no right to self-determination in international law before 1945

The unprinciple of self-determination
“Were 'democratic self-determination' a genuine right for the inhabitants of the small but strategically important outposts around the world that Britain managed to retain in the twilight of its empire, one would suppose that it would be accorded universally to those inhabitants by the UK government. The sad fate of the Chagos islanders proves otherwise.”
The Chagos Islands became, like the Falkands and a dozen other small remnants of the British Empire around the world, a Crown Colony. (Later, in a terminological manoevre to deal with the fact that the tide of world opinion had turned against colonialism, the British Crown Colonies were re-named by an act of Parliament as the British Dependent Territories; and they were subsequently re-named again as the British Overseas Territories.)
Like the Falklanders, the Chagossians were approximately two thousand in number. Unlike the Falklanders, they were dark skinned and not of British ancestry”

and your point is.....??? Are you saying that the Chagossians did not have the right to self- determination and Britain did the right thing there?

321, Britain use of self -determination is a masterpiece of hypocrisy.

Seeing as the British Goverment treatment of the Chagos Islanders was so reprehensible why would the people Of Argentina support the same treatment of the falkland Islanders?now that is hypocrisy

@291 Think
Firstly, I wouldn't live in London if you paid me, try the Welsh Marches and you'd be nearer the mark.
Secondly, the toilets at Darwin that I proposed with the soak away into the graveyard would have been a facility for use by Argentine Visitors, hence my suggestion that a sign in Spanish be placed above the Urinals explaining how the facilities worked. So it isn't my dream to piddle on your war dead, it's my suggestion that YOU piddle on your war dead.
Thirdly, I still think the above is funny, but then I do have a unique sense of humour, and the inalienable right to express an opinion, even if you personally don't like it.
I know you have a sense of humour of your own, because you need one to support Argentina's Sovereignty claim to the Falkland Islands.

This topic seesm to have run its course and lost the thread a bit. To go back to the start I guess one could summarise it:

UK has acted unilaterally in approving 2 revisions of the Islands Constitution since 1976 - BUT - those changes have resulted in more democracy and more selfgovernment for the population- so hardly negative acts.
1982 Argentinis threw the entire UN request right out the window whjen they Unilaterally invaded with military force and subjected the population to military law and dictatorship!!

UK reacted - AFTER the UN Security Council demanded Argentine to withdraw - thus UK acted under the rules of the UN by militarily retaking the Islands and returning the people to the Government of their choice.

Argentina since 1982 has acted UNILATERALLY by:

Formally incorporating the Sovereignty Claim into their Costitution.
Declaring TDF and Ushuaia the Islands seat of Govt.
Unilaterally discontinuing joint Fisheries Conservation measure.
Unilaterally discontinuing joint hydrocarbons Agreements and discussions
Unilaterally imposing decree 256 to try and dissuade shipping links between the Islands and S.America.
Unilaterally imposed the requirement for any nationality of vessel to seek a special permit if sailing to the Islands from an Argentine port.
Unilaterally withdrawing mainland overflight permission for civil aircraft wishing to operate charter flights to the Islands.
Unilaterally refusing a commercial airline the overflight right to increase the frequency of their scheduled service to the Islands(Lan wanted to start a 2nd flight a week in 2003).

Do I go on???

Roll on the next time the Islands question comes up in the UN - The Argentine delegate will have some explaining to do.

Oh and before you all start - the Offshore hydrocarbons works that started in 2010 were NOT unilateral because it was your side who tore up the bilateral Agreement they otherwise would have happened under.

322 Marcos Alejandro
You haven't answered my question.
I actually agree with you. There is a degree of hypocrisy in Britain's treatment of the Chagossians.
So what do you think they should have done?

@ 326

“So what do you think they should have done?”

Silly question, give the Chagos Islands to Argentina of course...

(321)Monty69 and (323)Saphira
Diego Garcia / Chagos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopulation_of_Diego_Garcia

The point is, as you can read at the link above, that Great Britain is even today, more than 40 years after, refusing to grant or respect any human right of the Chagossians.

Great Britain took not only their right of self determination, they took their homes, their land, their culture, their work, their past, their future.

Yet, at the same time

Great Britain lectures Argentina about the inalienable self-determination right of the Falklanders.

I suggest that Great Britain (and the posters in here) stop moralizing to others about the inalienable self determination right of the 2.500 Falkland Islanders until the day they have reinstated the inalienable human rights of the 2.500 Chagossian Islanders.

All other would be hypocrisy… Don’t you think?

Ps:
(326) Monty69
They should at least pay them a decent monetary compensation.
Just the total cost* of ONE year of “Falklands Fortress” would be enough to give those people a decent life for generations to come.
* I mean the total cost, not the downgraded and make up’d one.

Monty69, What self-determination? Chagos islands is their land, they were expelled a few decades ago, like the Argentinians from Malvinas in 1833. Return Chagos to the Chagossians and Malvinas to Argentina is what UK should do.

saphira, We( the large majority) don't support the same treatment of Malvinas residents like the British did to us back in 1833 or the Chagossians a few decades ago.
This British article has some good ideas:

“For sure they have the right to campaign, or to seek recourse through the courts, but in the end they, if they insist on being British, must therefore abide by whatever choice is made by the British people as a whole, through their elected government. Should Britain decide to concede its colony off the coast of Argentina to the Argentinians, those who currently live there could choose to remain on the islands as 'ex-pat' Brits, or to relocate to England, Scotland or Wales with whatever financial compensation terms would be on offer; a small number of them might even decide to apply to become citizens of Argentina. That would be for them to decide, in the context of a negotiated solution.”

Comment from Witless from London at 324 is a disgrace to the dead and injured on both sides.

“Return Chagos to the Chagossians and Malvinas to Argentina is what UK should do.”

Macros. One contradicts the other. You support the Chagossians right to self determination but don't with the islanders because it does not support your goal.

I support the return of stolen property.

(331) Marcos Ale......

The Bruts can NOT return the Islands to the Chagossians....

They have to respect the inalienable self-determination right of the American troops and civilian contracted personnel on the Islands.

And the fish... remember the fish... They have to protect those beautifull fish from those nasty fish-eating Chagossians.

Hypocrisy anybody

332 Think,“ They have to protect those beautifull fish from those nasty fish-eating Chagossians.”
I know, the big octopus is hungry.

328 Think
'Great Britain took not only their right of self determination, they took their homes, their land, their culture, their work, their past, their future.'

I told you already; I agree with you. And is this what you would have Great Britain do to us as well?

'....until the day they have reinstated the inalienable human rights of the 2.500 Chagossian Islanders.'

And what are those human rights Think? Just what is it that you think they are entitled to? And are we entitled to the same rights?

I'm sensing that we are about to agree on something:-)

(334) Monty69

This Human rights:
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

You should know perfectly that the most realistic Argentine proposal is a Sovereignty Leaseback Agreement where all the above rights would be respected.

You can keep your homes, your land, your culture, your work, your past, your future…….

Only things that would have to go away fast are British Big Oil Capital and the Military.

335 Think
'Only things that would have to go away fast are British Big Oil Capital and the Military.'????

.....pull the other one, it's got bells on (not sure how well that translates but I'm sure you get the gist)
Mr M says 'don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining'. But then he would.

You're either very naive or your pulling my leg. I strongly suspect the latter.
The oil rigs and the military could push off tomorrow and you'd still all be there blithering on about 1833. Neither were there before 1982, were they.

No, I'm sorry to say that there appears to be one rule for the Chagossians and one for us. Is that because we are mainly white and of British descent? Who's the racist now?

Morning all, I see this thread has followed so many others with the Argies resorting to distraction and unconnected subject matter, O'Gaga brought up the potato famine yet? No! Give him time.

Think still whittering on about the Leaseback scheme? Yes. Still committed to that dead idea then Think! Did you have a hand is its design? You are surely too attached to an idea with no hope. By the way, the lessee is merely a tenant and it's the lessor that actually owns. Going nowhere :-)

Still, it would appear that the Falkland islands are still British and still subject to the will of the people that live there. No changes then. Perrrrrrfect :-))

(336)Monty69

I must be naive then...... Or you just got into “Siege Mode” and are reading me wrongly.

The whole idea of Argentineans being racists against Britons is just.................... I do not know what word to use..................... nuts?

We may be irritated, tired or angry at you ..........but racist?

Argentineans being racists against Britons?!?

Monty... it sounds like it is YOU pulling My leg.

@ Marcos

“I support the return of stolen property.”

any idea when you're going to give what you now call 'Argentina' back to the native South Americans then Marcos?.....well?....what's the timescale? (as you're such a staunch defender of the return of stolen property)

339 WestisBest, Trying to change the subject?, many “native” S.Americans fought for independence of what you call“Argentina”, I don't think you want me to talk about British history.

338 Think
Since you don't appear to have anything sensible to say, I think we'll just call that 'one to me' shall we?
Good night all

MoreCrap, if the islanders find any 'stolen property' I'm sure that they will resturn it.

Marcos,Think, other Argentines.I notice you allow yourselves get involved in legalistic arguments with the english.Don't waste your tine they will tell you boludeces such as human rights didn't start until1945 and mierda like this.As an Irishman a nation with 800 years dealing with the city and their collaborators they understand pain profits and losses.They are not emotional people like us most families are disfunctional. At all times in dealing with them be ruthless because they may smile but they are never ever to be trusted.Argentina with the economic climate out there now probably has 10 to 20 years to get rid of the vultures from South America.Do it RUTHLESSLY NO PRISIONERS

Nico you are as Irish as I am South American. go clean up the bottles and wash the floors loser.

Be gorra, be jesus ... I DO love a frustrated Mick .... funny as hell, thick as sh*te!

343 O gara, Can I borrow your song 'Go on home....“ for the clown above?
Thanks.

” they will tell you boludeces such as human rights didn't start until1945”
I know, Rotted Hoytred is a perfect example of that english thing that you're talking about.

@ fredMex

I’m not Irish and I’m not O’ gara either you cannot distinguish among an Irish, English, German, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, etc.

Stop pretending that you are smart enough to recognize people by their writing, because you are not. And also you look pretty silly “Sherlock”.

..... but not as much as I appreciate a frustrated Argie :-)

Or an angry at everything O'gara

fredbdc:

Funny how he returns on his old nic after a month or two just to tell you that he is not O gara.

I didn't think it was him untill i read that.

#295 you can keep your passport nobody wants it, we got toilet paper in Argentine, what we want is for the fakland company go back to UK and take their white slaves, ilegal aliens whatever you call those inbreds with them, otherways you will wake up as many did in 1982 to find your are being shiped back in a ship that will end up at the bottom of the sea, now don't moan later we didn't warn you.
#307 apparently you have to be a white colonist to have rights selfdetermination, not even 40.000.000 Argentines have the right to territorial integrity, self determination couldn't apply to the natives population of Islas Malvinas because they where in fact Argentines.
bias or what ?
#319 o yes there was self determination before 1945, what we didn't have was a UN BS club that promoted international justice, now we have the justice why not use it to the full extet, it will not be justtice if we pick and choose what is convenient to the voting members of the security council....this is the reasons why UN is becoming more and more irrelevant and international justice is turning out to be a scam.
givignself determination to this crooks will give UN no credibility, Imagine Luis Vernet an Argentine governor of the 1833 had less rights then a british pirats occupying Malvinas Argentina, the world might be gearing up for anarchy.
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf

I(diot) - you keep stumbling over the Vernett thing ... he was Britain's man, so how could he be a Governor for you? Wake up! Do some research!

Self Determination / Territorial Integrity / Uti Possedetis Juris / Human Rights = concepts in international law that were developed over periods of time, ... long periods of time. The oldest was probably the original Uti - i.e Uti Possedetis De Facto which has been around since the Roman Empire if not before. Basically comes down to - ” to the victor the spoils'.

Now as Argentina couldn't kick its way out of a paper bag, that particular aspect of International Law is unlikely to apply to you!

The UN isn't the best of organisations, but its lasted longer than its predecessor and it's unlikely to improve much. The alternative however, you wouldn't like at all!

Now go away and grow a name :-)

“not even 40.000.000 Argentines have the right to territorial integrity”

Argentina absolutely has right to territorial integrity, territorial waters (seas and oceans) of 3 to 200 miles.

The falklands are a full 250 miles away from mainland Argentina.

Although Argentina has a bastardised view of what territorial integrity really is:
“All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations”

I don't see how such a right helps your claim.

“self determination couldn't apply to the natives population of Islas Malvinas because they where in fact Argentines.”
The Argentinian people on the islands were not natives...The island has no natives..The Argentinian settlers were not mostly even born in Argentina.

“yes there was self determination before 1945”
Absolutely, completely and utterly incorrect. There was no international law before the UN.

“Imagine Luis Vernet an Argentine governor”

It has been stated and proved in many, many documents going back to those times that Vernet applied for british governance on more than several occasions and that he was not an Argentine governor.

@353 Zethe, waste of time talking to “ I ” the I(diot). common sense plays no part, & if he can't refute you, he just ignores you.

#352 Argentina can determine that UN and UK rules are irrelevant and there is nothing anyone can do about it, just as british prime minister did, UN or UK couldn't be as bias as to think we will sit to agree to a occupation by ilegal aliens from UK.
#353 Matilde Malvinas Vernet was the first islas Malvinas native she was the daughter of Luis Vernet something wikipedia seems to have problems with, but even if she wasn't! there was signs of indigenus population who left canoes and arrow heads, we all know what the europeans did with native populations right ?? no selfdetermination back in those days right ?? ok now you go and freely determine weather you will like to stay as an Argentine in Islas Malvinas or if you will go with the fakland company story and become a british subject in briain, other then that you are wasting you typing skills here with me, if those documents you site are as factual as Matilde Vernet's documents, I am sure I can be more flexible then brits and read them, but as I stated, I think you are wasting your good typing skills with me, I suguest you go and tell your fary tail story to someone willing to listen and believe you, good luck.

@329 Marvin
What? Lost your sense of humour? Do I care? No.

I(diot) - no indians ... no-one there ... dream on !

The islands belong to the Islanders ... get used to it!

Get used to driving in the right lane, asshole.

@zethe

Are you playing Sherlock too?

Even a person with 2 neurons can realize that I’m not O’gara.

I expect from you to do better than that. At least FreMex has a good excuse I mean his ignorance.

What’s yours?

@ I(mbecile)

“what we want is for the fakland company go back to UK and take their white slaves, ilegal aliens whatever you call those inbreds with them, otherways you will wake up as many did in 1982 to find your are being shiped back in a ship that will end up at the bottom of the sea, now don't moan later we didn't warn you.”

Wow, that's really scary (yawn). Much as you might want to believe that your government of the time actually did begin to exterminate us Falkland Islanders if you check your history I think you'll find that they weren't in the Islands long enough to get round to it. Those few they did deport I understand travelled in reasonably servicable aircraft....and were all back in the Falklands shortly after your armed forces were beaten and sent home by the British.

Keep up with the empty threats I(gnoramus), it's good for a laugh.

#300 oviously british can give Argentines a lesson on what honorable is couldn't they ?? they even have an order of honorable people including but not limited to OBE darwin clifton a britsh running the busyness in Malvinas Argentina.
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/site/legco/speaker.php

The Honourable Darwin Lewis Clifton OBE
Mr Clifton was appointed Speaker of the Legislative Assembly following the General Election in November 2005. He is a Falkland Islander and was Falkland Islands Government Representative in London from 1987 to 1990. He has also been elected to the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council (1985-87 and 1997-2001). Mr Clifton is a former founding director and currently managing director of Byron Marine Limited, a Falkland Islands incorporated, ship-owning and vessel management company specialising in marine services. He is a non-executive director of Desire Petroleum plc, and a Trustee of the South Atlantic Medal Association (SAMA FI) 1982 and the New Island Conservation Trust. He is also Council Member of the Falkland Islands Chamber of Commerce
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/site/legco/speaker.php

I(nsensible) - your point is?

Well done I. You've identified a conflict of interest. So what?

TWIMC
What about this “Conflict of Interests” then? :

GREAT BRITAIN (and the posters in here) high-mindedly moralizing to Argentina about the “Inalienable Self-Determination Right” of the ~2.500 Falkland Islanders whilst the UNITED KINGDOM keeps on (for the 40’st year running) denying each and every “Inalienable Human Right” of the ~2.500 Chagossian Islanders……

This is UTTERLY OBVIOUS, AUTHENTIC AND CURRENT example of official and individual British double standards.

Hypocrisy anybody?

What are you suggesting Think? That we do to the Falkland Islanders what we did to the Chagossians? Just to even things out...

Deflect! Deflect! Ive been embarrassed and have no response, Don't look over here..look there, look over there.

Great way to debate hey Think?

Why don't you bring up some more personal stuff about me and Justin just to make you feel better about your lonely pathetic existence. It doens't bother me and if it makes you feel better go ahead.

Yes Think the British Government position over the Chagos Islanders is utterly hypocritical, yes they're in the wrong and yes they'll lose when the case goes to the ECHR.

If you're that interested, well I can point you to a couple of websites where you can donate money to fund their case, or alternately simply provide me with your name and address and I'll mail you a fundraising pack.

The question that arises to my mind, is yes what the British Government did to the Chagos Islanders was utterly wrong, so why do you and your Government advocate exactly the same thing for the Falkland Islanders.

Either you are a hypocrite also, or you accept the people of the Falkland Islands do have a right to self-determination. Which is it?

Martín Fierro - actually it's “arsehole' NOT ”asshole”!

It gives me much pleasure to tell you that you, too, are an arsehole!

As, of course, that's not your real name you won't feel insulted. Or will you feel insulted because the real Martín Fierro is one of your próceres(I think!)

Domingo has presented the historical perspective concisely and succinctly. This shouls prove most valuable to Argentinians posting here.

It seems obvious to me that 19th & 20th century history of southern South America is not part of the Education syllabus in Argentina - either that, or many pupils, especially 'I', skipped history lessons .... OR History has been re-written for political and domestic consumption.
Possibly all of these things.

These historical, legal and political facts of life have not been - and possibly cannot be - repudiated by our South American posters.

: This may be because of their youth,

: It may be because of their ignorance of the legal situation and the UN & Security Council rulings, or

: It may be because the position is so watertight that it could not be repudiated even by the best Argentinian lawyers in their land.

...... I imagine that it is the last of these that is important.

But there is no reason to be abusive, we British are supposed to be civilised and educated people who can *politely* agree to differ - whatever the imbalance of the argument.

Responding to (365) and (367)

I have already answered your ”deflecting” questions at my post No. 335…..
I include it below in case of you have difficulty finding it above, between post No. 334 and post No. 336…

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(334) Monty69
This Human rights:
www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

You should know perfectly that the most realistic Argentine proposal is a Sovereignty Leaseback Agreement where all the above rights would be respected.

You can keep your homes, your land, your culture, your work, your past, your future…….

Only things that would have to go away fast are British Big Oil Capital and the Military.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Argentina will offer this lease back by treaty? It is not like you have a long history of HONORING treaties or contracts do you? What is the guarantee this would be any different?
I can name at least 25 contracts, treaties etc that the Ks have torn up or had your crony courts declared illegal. So why would anyone sign an agreement that they know will be broken as soon as it is inconvenient or if there is something of value to steal?

Lease back, Lease Back .... I Think this has something to do with Think's work ... so much attachment to a totally DEAD idea! As I've said before Lesees are not owners ... only tenants. Lessors are owners.

No chance ... No hope ... clutching at straws THINK !

372 YES. Absolute NO to lease back. Stupid idea.

Argentina complains the UK stole its territory, yet in the 1870s 1880s it invaded, conquered, annexed, and colonised the Pampa and Patagonia.

Hypocrisy anybody?

TWIMC

I suggest that Great Britain (and the posters in here) stop moralizing to others about the inalienable self determination right of the 2.500 Falkland Islanders until the day they have reinstated the inalienable human rights of the 2.500 Chagossian Islanders.

All other would be hypocrisy… Don’t you think?

Same sort of hypocrisy coming from you think, criticizing us for something while supporting your own nation wishes to do the same.

So I don't see the comparison of the Chago Island and Falklands that Think keeps screaming about.
There are people living in the Falklands so how is this comparison relevant? The British Courts ruled in favor of the UK Gov't and there is no UN demand for the Chagos to return.
So are you saying the Argentinians will uproot the Falklanders like UK/US did to the Chagos but then they must be given the right to return? This make no sense. Do you wonder why UK still has and will keep forces there?
Think why don't you “think” this through and get back with us, your logic and argument is very flawed.

TWIMC

Argentina is not proposing to expulse the Falklands settlers.

An UN guaranteed Sovereignty Leaseback Agreement would guarantee alll the Islanders human rights as in the UN charta.
www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml

They could keep their homes, their land, their culture, their work, their past, their future…….

Only things that would have to go away fast are British Big Oil Capital and the British Military.

Not at all the same as Great Britain is doing, even today, to the Chagossians.

Hypocrisy anybody?

BTW why don't you start putting the blame of the Chago expulsion on the USA? It's our base. I doubt we will give it back in your life time. Maybe because it doesn't fit in your narrative? Hmm could that be it?
Flawed logic, flawed argument, let's try a new one, people are tired and you can't admit you are wrong as usual.

TWIMC

Re3member......The Brutish can NOT return the Islands to the Chagossians....

They have to respect the inalienable self-determination right of the American troops and civilian contracted personnel on the Islands.

And the fish... remember the fish... They have to protect those beautifull fish from those nasty fish-eating Chagossians.

Hypocrisy anybody

Wow I don't think you know what the word Hypocrisy means, that has got to be it.
You are like the crazy guy on the corner, give me a quarter, give me a quarter, give me a quarter, I don't have a quarter shut up!

Think, you will not find anyone here on the pro-falklands side that approves of what the UK did to the Chagossians, so while you may accuse the UK government of hypocrisy, you can't level that charge at any of us. However, what the UK did to the Chagossians no more affects the rights to self determination of the Falkland Islands than it affects the rights to self-determination of Bermuda, Anguilla, St Helena, or any other inhabited overseas territory.

(382) Dab14763

You say:
”Think, you will not find anyone here on the pro-Falklands side that approves of what the UK did to the Chagossians, so while you may accuse the UK government of hypocrisy, you can't level that charge at any of us.”

I say:
Ohhhhh yes………………. I do.level that charge at all of you……………...

All of you that so haughtily lecture us Argentineans about the “inalienable self-determination right of the 2.500 British settlers.”

All of you that so uninterestedly admit the continued British government disrespect for EACH AND EVERY “inalienable human right of the 2.500 Chagossians.”

All of you so snootily keep using the “inalienable self-determination right” argument against Argentina, knowing perfectly well that your Government doesn’t give a damn about those 2.500 Chagossians.

“An UN guaranteed Sovereignty Leaseback Agreement would guarantee alll the Islanders human rights as in the UN charta.”

You keep repeating this, so i'll have to point out the fact that the link you provided is not the UN charter.

And, no it would not respect the islanders Self Determination. So it would not “guarantee alll the Islanders human rights as in the UN charta.”
Self determination is in article one of the UN charter.

The link you repeat does not even support your argument. “the will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government.”

Also, im not sure you understand what Self Determination is.

The crimes against the Chagossians come under “deportation or forcible transfer of population”. Not denial of Self Determination.

I am puzzled... 'Think' used the word 'Argentinean' to describe himself/herself(??)... I know many many argentines and the word is not used... ever. Strange....

Another thing though, just to balance the topic - can people please stop hanging on a UN judgement. The UN is irrelevant when it comes to Britain, the US, or Israel listening. All three parties do what they want.
Because they have the guns. Thats the simple reason.
And yes, so did Galtieri's government too, before someone points that out.
But seriously ....you people on this site really should get out of the house a bit more....

(386)
I am puzzled....... 'Think' used the word 'Argentinean' to describe himself(??)... Think's know many many argentines and the word is used when appropiate... always. Simple....

Alright Think, I know I said thatt I wasn't going to respond to your trolling, but.......
I still think the UK government wronged the Chagossians.
I still think that Falkland Islanders have the right to self determination.
I am not in any way responsible for what the UK government does. They are not my government.
I therefore consider myself free to comment on this in any way I choose without accusations of hypocrisy.

And you haven't answered my questions. I don't consider an imposed leaseback scheme an answer. It does not suggest any respect for our right to self- determination.

The UK Government IS my government and I don't feel responsible for what they do either, how can any individual citizen be expected to accept responsibility for the actions of a government they might never have voted for in the first place, and even if they did they changed their manifesto as soon as they got into power?
In fact, the present UK Government wasn't voted for by anyone, so the point is rather mute.
I still think the UK Government wronged the Chagossians.
I still think the Falkland Islanders have the right to self determination.
I still think the Falkland Islanders have the right to their own natural resources.
I still think the Chagossians have the right to self determination.
I think that individual Argentine Citizens were not personally responsible for their Government invading the Falkland Islands, BUT I do think they should accept that the Argentine Government wronged the Falkland Islanders, and continues to do so.
I consider myself free to comment on this in any way I choose without accusations of hypocrisy.
I accuse Think of hypocrisy, Think is not really thinking and wishes to deny the Falkland Islanders their Human Rights, Think is the Argentine Government stool (sic), Think is either indoctrinated, mad, or both.
Any reasonable person reading anything he posts would come to the same reasonable conclusions.
It is Think and his less literate cronies are unreasonable, and therefore irrelevant to reasoned debate.

Think,Marcos you must remember you are argueing with people from the margins of England who are desperate to be included with their masters who might throw them the odd piece of bread from the table like with a dog.These are of course lapdogs that most miserable breed who will do anything go thru any humilaiton for their master.Therefore reasoned argument with thses people is simply impossible.So I urge you to learn from us with 800 years dealing with these people and who understand them to perfection.So what to learn?Well its simple as I keep stateing Argentina will gain nothing paying even the slightest bit of attention to anything they say or do.All that matters with then English is money money money.The City and oligarchy are an incredibly resourceful group who to this day still manage to convince these fools to do their dirty work for them.But all their talk of self determination and history will go out the window when haveing the islands costs them money.Then the foreign office will come running to Buenos Aires trying to give you the Malvinas but at a price.you have to be careful and ruthless then as it will look wonderful to get the Malvinas back after all those years but the pirates must then be put under even more pressure and Argentina will then get the deal you need.I predict this will be the outcome over the next 10-20 years with the economic climate we have now.I dont have time to argue here anymore so spare us your replies lackeys and teaboys TIME WILL TELL WHO IS RIGHT.
PERO ARGENTINOS SIEMPRE ES IMPORTANTE UTILIZAR LOS DOS OJOS CON LOS PIRATAS INGLESES

(388) Monty 69

Firstly….I am not trolling.
I have my opinions and I express them.
Just read the definition to be sure. No, I am not a troll…….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29#Concern_troll

Secondly… I cant answer your “questions” because I can’t find any!

The only person I have observed lecturing anyone in a haughty manner is Think and his ilk.

Ah right so now he accuses anyone who supports the Falkland Islanders of hypocrisy, because of what the British Government did to the Chagossians.

Well Mr Think, I have been involved in the campaign for justice for the Chagossians for some time. You even made some patronising remarks about a picture of me at a demonstration with one of your stalking pals indulging in a spot of racism.

I don't know of anyone who posts here on the British side who agrees with what the British Governnment did or has done since. All have been equally critical of the actions of the British Government.

They condemn it and do not excuse it.

The only reason it is raised, is not out of any genuine concern for the plight of the Chagossians (you've been twice given the chance of helping there but have chosen to ignore the offer). Rather it is seen as something to throw in the face of the British here, in order to distract from your utter failure to present a cogent or coherent argument.

If anyone is capable of being labelled a hypocrite it is the person raising the issue of the Chagos Islanders, whilst bearing ill will toward the Falkland Islanders who you, paraphrasing the words of one poster, invade their homes once more, load them on a ship and sink it in the South Atlantic.

I asked a straight question, do you respect the self-determination of the islanders. You throw up some red herring about a proposal for leaseback that the islanders have longe since rejected. Again you impose a solution that goes againt their wishes.

So its clear you don't, ergo, we conclude you are a hypocrite and a liar. And a racist, you don't give a damn about the Chagossians and the last time it was raised you and your ilk resorted to the worst kind of racist comments.

Witless from London, I still think that your comment at 324 is a disgrace to the dead and injured on both sides, jerk.

367 Kuntz
“the British Government position over the Chagos Islanders is utterly hypocritical, yes they're in the wrong and yes they'll lose when the case goes to the ECHR”
I agree, British are the masters of hypocrsisy.
After the forced expulsion of the population(sounds familiar?) from the islands, the islanders were offered no recourse to self-determination. Dispossesed of their homes and their means of livelihood, the democratic choice offered to the Chagossians was to become slum-dwellers on the Mauritius mainland. Like the “Falklanders”, the Chagossians were approximately two thousand in number.

are the british ilegal alliens still occupying Malvinas Argentina ??
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
are the pirats still trying to figure out a way to pullute our ocean in Malvinas as they didn in USA ??
YAWNSS!!
this people only understand force like savages.

Marcos,

Vernet's settlement was not expelled, no matter how many times you repeat a lie it doesn't become true.

The FCO would have happily done the same to the Falkland Islanders in the 1960s, it had plans to do so.

Two wrongs.

Kuntz,

You can't deny the expulsion of the Chagossians because they are still alive and their faces all over the news for the last 40 years, that's the only difference.
And the use by the British of Self-Determination, like I said before, is a masterpiece of hypocrysy.

Marcos.

Where did I deny the hypocrisy of the British Government or the expulsion of the Chagossians ?

I condemn both, I'm consistently on the record for condemning the actions of the FCO.

Does that justify the harming of an innocent 3rd party? What part did the Falkland Islanders play in this, why would you advocate the same for them?

Do you have a point?

Marcos,
I completely agree with you.
So what do you think Britain should do for the Chagossians, and why?

Kuntz,
You can not say is a lie or it didn't happen only because many of them are still alive and all over the news for the last forty years. Some like Fred above still think that their forced expulsion was right and over with it.

398 Monty69, What I think about it you will find it at#329.

Just a quick question ... were the Chagos islands on the UN's decolonisation list ?

Hello 400

392 JustinKuntz ,
“Well Mr Think, I have been involved in the campaign for justice for the Chagossians for some time. You even made some patronising remarks about a picture of me at a demonstration with one of your stalking pals indulging in a spot of racism”

I happen to find that old article and Think was not the one who comment about that picture.
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/11/17/uk-launches-new-overseas-territories-strategy-at-london-meeting

You said back then:
”24 JustinKuntz (#)
Care to guess who the handsome white haired chap on the right of that photo is? ”
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/11/17/uk-launches-new-overseas-territories-strategy-at-london-meeting

And then myself and others look at that picture and only find people with African or Indian ethnics(Chagossians ethnicity). You said in the past that your grandfather came from Spain, so we only ask if you were from African descend aswell. You right away ask the editors “to remove those racist remarks”.
One response to your non sense call to the editors to remove those comments:

”40 NicoDin (#)
@ To whom concern
The only racist here its the person who assumed that asking if he was African has connotation to some ethnic group. As he could be a white SA.”

No wonder you were so nice, knowing that I might remenber that exchange.

Just out of curiosity think....you direct the word 'hypocrisy' repeatedly at the British because of the difference between the way they treated the Chagos Islanders and the way they treat the Falkland Islanders. If you have on past occasions done the wrong thing is it really hypocritical to do the right thing now? Should Britain continue to treat people like shit just because they have done so in the past....just to avoid being called hypocrites.......by the likes of you.......think?

A quick scan of the Chagos case suggests the usual FCO/Politician double dealing of the type that nearly gave the Falkland Islands to Argentina prior to 1982. Fortunately, on that occassion, the islanders discovered what was up and defeated the FCO and its atrocious plans. Pity the Chagos Islanders weren't so successful.

Complicated though, and there doesn't seem to be any UN impetus with regard to the matter. I note that the British Government won its House of Lords appeal and the matter is awaiting consideration by the ECHR.

Perhaps Argentina should find a suitable international court in order to test its case :-)

(401) Marcos Alejandro
Good answer to yet another of the “Convenient Little Lies” from Mr.” Justin Kuntz.”
I didn’t bother to answer it because I assumed that the “normal” posters in here ( there are a few, I hope) would remember all the times he has lied the same way.
It seems I assumed correctly.

Maybe the Turnips won’t remember but…. Who cares about Turnips?

(402) WestisBest
You say:
”You direct the word 'hypocrisy' repeatedly at the British because of the difference between the way they treated the Chagos Islanders and the way they treat the Falkland Islanders.”

I say:
No........... I direct the word 'hypocrisy' repeatedly at the British because of their haughtiness and hypocrisy of moralizing to others about “self-determination” when they have not the least respect for “self-determination” themselves as the Chagossians plight so clearly demonstrates.

That’s what I have being saying all along….Read my posts….

(403) Hoyt
You say:
“Perhaps Argentina should find a suitable international court in order to test its case”

I say:
We will eventually………………
After using the BRITISH system of exhausting all other possibilities an impossibilities (and the Islanders, by the way)

As I told you before…. ……. We learn from the “Masters”

The illegal occupation of Malvinas Argentina by inbreds is a crime you guys waste too much time in the internet spreading a futile lie, get a real job and stop pirating the world resources, didn't BP show inbreds anything ?? before I go I need to check again....yup the oil production in Islas Malvinas, Argentina is still = o, I wishes you all better luck tomorrow.

Think, Argentina acted hypocritically regarding the Falklands long before the UK did when it invaded, conquered, annexed, and colonised the Pampa and Patagonia and still continued to complain about stolen territory afterwards.

The Argentine claim that there has been a breach of Argentine territorial integrity in its dispute over the sovereignty of the Falklands Islands is non sequitur

It does not follow by claiming uti possidetis juris for the Falklands Islands that a breach or partial breach of the principle of Argentine territorial integrity has occurred as defined by the UN

The extent of the Argentine borders in 1833 were several thousand kilometres from the Islands

No continuity of land mass can be claimed at the time of British reoccupation, nor were the Islands close enough to Argentine territory to claim connection by continental shelf

The reality in all its populated history of the Islands, Argentina can only claim a brief period of ineffectual control

Argentina's official two month occupation culminating in Argentine mutiny and the complete breakdown of its tiny military garrison and government was formally diplomatically protested by the UK government at the time

Furthermore Vernet's private commercial settlement was agreed by Vernet with the British through a issue of a land grant

The fact is the Malvinas were administrated from Montevideo under the Spanish viceroyalty & Uruguay had a superior claim under the principle of uti possidetis juris but never claimed the Islands

The British presence on the Islands began before any Argentine presence and the British have a prior claim to the Argentines, as did the Uruguayans and Spanish

Argentina cannot demonstrate any economic or political connection and dependence on the Falklands Islands nor any recognised connection with its peoples

The fact is Britain has had effective control and peaceful possession of the Falkland Islands for 178 years, longer than most of modern day Argentine territories, and the Falkland Islands is demonstrably integrated economically and politically with the UK

The reality is the British have a very clear claim to breach of their territorial integrity against Argentine claims for the Islands

Think - full of cr*p as normal. Argentina will not go to an international tribunal because Argentina's case is flawed. If it wished to do so then it could have gone to the ICJ long ago. That it chose not to do so is indicative of the weakness of its case. Digression onto other topics is irrelevant.

You are poor pupils !

(407) Domingo

I tend to disregard your posts since I discovered that you sometimes “edit” UN resolutions when ”quoting” them……………..
You know…. Replacing little words like “interests” with little words like “wishes” for example…………..

Anyhow……………In this post you tell us….once again that:
”The extent of the Argentine borders in 1833 were several thousand kilometres from the Islands”

What about educating yourself?
Below, I provide you a useful link about the history of the MANY Spanish and Argentinean settlements along the Patagonian coast since the 16 th. century:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establecimientos_coloniales_de_la_Patagonia_atl%C3%A1ntica

And yes, it is in Spanish…. ………….
I don’t know if they are any English translations and I don’t care.
Your failure to grasp anything else that English written sources detracts a lot of credibility from your interpretation of the “Malvinas Issue”

You also keep repeating, in most of your posts, how “sincere” you are about the “Malvinas Issue”

Well……………….
Taking in consideration all the above, it is “sincerely” very hard for me to spot any of your “sincerity”.
Maybe the British readers have an easier time with it?

are you guy talking about the liberation of Malvinas Argentina back in 1982 ?? what you guys are saying is the same as stating that british subjects invaded london or UK, I can see this is going to be a long cold isolated life for many british illegal aliens, if they ended the illegal occupation of Malvinas, I am sure Argentines could forgive the insult and disrespect by UK, no body is perfect.

Yeah whatever I, no doubt the British can't sleep at night due to the torment of not having Argentinas forgiveness....yawn.

and let us know when you are due some respect will you, no sign of any need for it yet.

I(diot) - there is no 'illegal occupation', so no forgiveness required thanks :-)

Think - just for you - UNITED NATIONS CHARTER CHAPTER XI DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES
Article 73
Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, and accept as a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the system of international peace and security established by the present Charter, the well-being of the inhabitants of these territories, and, to this end:

a. to ensure, with due respect for the culture of the peoples concerned, their political, economic, social, and educational advancement, their just treatment, and their protection against abuses;

b. to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement;

c. to further international peace and security;

d. to promote constructive measures of development, to encourage research, and to co-operate with one another and, when and where appropriate, with specialized international bodies with a view to the practical achievement of the social, economic, and scientific purposes set forth in this Article; and

e. to transmit regularly to the Secretary-General, for informational purposes, ... statistical and other information.........

Saw 'interests' ... saw 'well being' ... saw 'due respect' ... saw 'just' ... saw 'political aspirations of the peoples' !

Didn't see anything about handing them over to a different Power, nothing about ignoring their wishes, nothing about making the people something else ..

Full of cr*p as usual :-)

(412) Hoyt

The UNITED NATIONS CHARTER CHAPTER XI DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES
Article 73 applies, in its full extension, to ANY native population subjected to the rule of a colonial power…................. correct.

But NOT to the aforementioned colonial power’s implanted population composed of British soldiers and British civilian settlers ……………

Clear and simple….. Lad.

So Marcos and El Thicko defend racist comments, claiming they weren't racist. Mmm, says a lot really. Thats why they were removed.

You might look up Chutzpah as well El Hypocrite.

(409) Think, thanks for the link, nice map up to the Rio Negro. I read:

”De este modo, entre 1811 y 1853 , persistieron desde la época virreinal en la Patagonia nominalmente argentina — ya que realmente era territorio controlado por Tehuelches — a orillas de la desembocadura del río Negro , tres establecimientos: Carmen de Patagones ( 1779 ), Mercedes de Patagones ( 1782 ) y el fortín San Javier ( 1782 ).“

”Thus, between 1811 and 1853 , three sites remained from the colonial era in nominally Argentine Patagonia - it really was territory controlled by the Tehuelches - on the banks of the mouth of Black River: El Carmen ( 1779 ), Mercedes Patagones ( 1782 ) and the fort San Javier ( 1782 ). ”

The point I was making Think was simply that Argentine controlled territories were much smaller in 1833 and that the effect of the British effective and peaceful reoccupation of the Falklands Islands on Argentine notional territorial integrity at the time in 1833 was minimal if anything at all

Whereas today, after 178 years of continuous effective, public and peaceful occupation by the British, a change of sovereignty of the Falkland Islands, whether by independence for the Islanders or their choice to unite with Argentina would represent a real partial disruption of British territorial integrity

I apologise if I have misquoted 2065(XX) by writing wishes instead of interests, there are many instances where I have quoted UN resolutions correctly, I can assure you it was not intentional on my part. I understand the import Argentina places on the word “interests”

However, as a counterpoint, resolution 1514(XV) applies and stated quite clearly that:

“ Immediate steps shall be taken, in ... Non-Self-Governing Territories ...which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire”

i.e. the wishes of the Falklanders

(415) Domingo

Not so fast Domingo…………………

The “Point you were making was to write:

”The extent of the Argentine borders in 1833 were several thousand kilometres from the Islands”
Which is not true………….

Furthermore.....About you saying:
“ I apologize if I have misquoted 2065(XX) by writing wishes instead of interests, there are many instances where I have quoted UN resolutions correctly, I can assure you it was not intentional on my part.”

I say:
You want me to believe that you don’t “cut and paste” those UN resolutions but that you type them by hand and made an honest mistake?
C’mon boy!
I may be old, and simple……
But I’m not stupid

You are as insincere and biased about the Malvinas issue as one can be.

Give me, anytime, a poster like “Redhoyt” and all his cynicism….
Or
“Zethee” and all his turpinism….
Or
Briton and all his………… I don’t know what vegetable to use.
Or
Any Islander in here who have a lot at stake in this issue.

But you Sir, are in the same category as Mr. Justin Kuntz.

A worshipper of the “small convenient lies”

”The extent of the Argentine borders in 1833 were several thousand kilometres from the Islands”
Which is not true………….

Actually it is. BsAs didn't really go much further south than the salado (del sur) river. Look at the foundation date for towns and cities in the southern half of todays BsAs province, la pampa, neuquen, rio negro, chubut, santa cruz and tdf. with a few exceptions most date from later than the 1870s. and the exceptions - like bahia blanca - were usually heavily defended fort-towns... face the facts think.

What about educating yourself?

Below, I provide a useful link about the history of the MANY Spanish and Argentinean settlements along the Patagonian coast since the 16 th. century:
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establecimientos_coloniales_de_la_Patagonia_atl%C3%A1ntica

El Thicko, Liar, Hypocrite and Racist.

From your own article

”persisted from the colonial era in nominally Patagonia Argentina - and in reality the territory was controlled by the Tehuelches - on the banks of the mouth of Black River , three sites: El Carmen ( 1779 ), Mercedes Patagones ( 1782 ) and the fort San Javier ( 1782 ). ”

From memory I recalled about 4 outposts, which is pretty much what the article confirmed. What Domingo and others stated is true, Argentina did not control Patagonia, all there were a few heavily defended fort-towns.

If you wish to argue semantics and continuously harp on about a mistake, acknowledged, to criticise as usual you scrape the bottom of the barrel. Is this really how low your attempt at arguing your way out of a wet paper bag has gone.

Firstly think, anything which happened during Spanish times is irrelevant because Argentina inherited nothing from Spain.

Secondly I always take Wikipedia with a pinch of salt.

Thirdly as far as I can see from your Wikipedia link the “establecimientos” were mostly failures and then abandoned.

Fourthly I did mention that there were exceptions, giving Bahia Blanca as an example. Carmen de Patagones is another. They were fortified towns. The hinterland around them was not controlled by Spain or subsequently Argentina by any measure. The rest of Patagonia was certainly not under Spanish control nor Argentine control until Roca went on his rampage in the late 1870s.

Fifthly, perhaps you should read the links before you put them up. Here's a nice little quote: ”De este modo, entre 1811 y 1853, persistieron desde la época virreinal en la Patagonia nominalmente argentina — ya que realmente era territorio controlado por Tehuelches — a orillas de la desembocadura del río Negro, tres establecimientos: Carmen de Patagones (1779), Mercedes de Patagones (1782) y el fortín San Javier (1782)“

That's THREE Spanish settlements which survived until after Argentine independence. Hardly the ”MANY” you speak of.

I think it's you who needs a bit of education.

Chuckle chuckle

And all this coming from the very same posters that solemnly defend the indisputable historical British right to Malvinas because they left a little bronze plaque somewhere ………………

Chuckle chuckle

413 Think
”(412) Hoyt

The UNITED NATIONS CHARTER CHAPTER XI DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES
Article 73 applies, in its full extension, to ANY native population subjected to the rule of a colonial power…................. correct.

But NOT to the aforementioned colonial power’s implanted population composed of British soldiers and British civilian settlers ……………

Clear and simple….. Lad.“

Where does it state in the text of article 73 that it applies, and I qoute ”in its full extension, to ANY native population subjected to the rule of a colonial power”

I see no mention of Native. Reference is only made to the PEOPLES of the oversea territories.

Is your belief that the article only applies to natives your personal interpretation?

Think at 413 and 416, you accuse Domingo of dileberately misinterpreting Article 73 by using the word “interests” and yet you have deliberately used the word “native”; trying to imply that the Falkland Islanders do not have a similar right to self-determination as the inhabitants of the other non-self-governing territories on the UN's list, when, as far as I can see, the word “native” is not used at all!
Moving on...
I confess that I don't know what the percentage is of “native” inhabitants of the other non-self-governing territories on the UN's list, but looking at the list, there does seem to be the real possibility that, at least in some of the other territories, the majority of the population are not indigenous. And yet you don't seem to be suggesting that these other inhabitants of these other territories don't have the right to self-determination.
What you are perpetuating, Think, is the Argentine lie that the Falkland Islands are a special case because the population is not indigenous. I say again, the UN designates the Falkland Islands a “special and particular colonial situation” simply because of the dispute over sovereignty.
If, as you seem to want the world to believe, Think, the Falkland Islanders are not entitled to the same self-determination that the other inhabitants of the other non-self-governing territories are entitled to, it would have been reasonable to expect the Falkland Islands to be dealt with by a separate committee of the UN. The fact that it isn't tells me that the UN's C24 does not distinguish between native and non-native peoples.
Which brings us back to the fact that you are trying to mislead us, as you have vigorously accused others of doing, by using the word “native”.
It's a word that's been used a lot on this post recently, but doesn't this seem a lot like hypocrisy on the part of Think?!

Coming from the same kind of poster who thinks Argentina inherited something from Spain it's all terribly amusing.

It looks like you've been boxed into a corner by facts Think...

Chuckle chuckle.

422) LegionNi

You say:
“I see no mention of Native. Reference is only made to the PEOPLES of the oversea territories.”
”Is your belief that the article only applies to natives your personal interpretation?”

I say:
And…. As I have said innumerable times before, the Settleres are nice people but they do not constitute a “People”…………………..
They are a British occupation force militarily maintained into place during the last 178 years.

This is my interpretation, the Argentinean government interpretationand the overwhelming majority of the C24 delegates interpretation.

(423) PomInOz

You say:
”You accuse Domingo of dileberately misinterpreting Article 73 by using the word “interests”

I say:
No…… I accuse Domingo of deliberately “MISQUOTING” a whole paragraph of resolution 2065(xx) where a KEY word was “accidentally” replaced by a “British friendly” word…..

As you can see in his response at post No. 415:
I apologize if I have MISQUOTED 2065(XX) by writing wishes instead of interests,

Moving on……
The BIIIIG difference between Malvinas and all the other British non-self-governing territories on the UN list is that there is a TERRITORIAL DISPUTE about Malvinas.

In all the other British non-self-governing territories on the UN list, the Self-determination question is one between the indigenous/ non indigenous population and the British Government.

For the answer to the rest of your post please read my answer to LegionNi above…………………

Well done Think ... wrong again! Now show me WHERE the UN art. 73 makes a different case for the Falklnads ... you are blown, ... nowhere to go, no hope.

No tell me something else, if the US and the UK manage to close the C-24 down ... where will Argentina be able to spread its spurious claims ????

No UNGA Resolution since 1982 ... doesn't that TELL you something??

“No UNGA Resolution since 1982 ... doesn't that TELL you something??”

Yes. It tells me that 2011 is a good time for a new UNGA resolution :-))

Oh please, Think. Come one, pull the other one! There's no wriggling out of this one. You deliberately used the word “native”, when that word is not used at all in Article 73. Domingo interpreted “wishes” as “interests”. The words are not that far apart, especially when read in context that it is the wishes of the inhabitants that are paramount. What is that if not the “interests” of the people?
You, on the other hand, Think, naughty little hypocrite that you are, have deliberately used a word plucked out of the air to try to perpetuate your and your Government's lies that the Falkland Islanders are not entitled to self-determination. As I hope that I've already demonstrated, if they weren't entitled to self-determination, they would be dealt with by a different body than the C24.
They are a “people” and they are entitled to self-determination. No amount of your lies will change this.
Furthermore, please direct us all to proof of your assertion that the overwhelming majority of the other C24 delegations agree with Argentina's interpretation of the Falkland Islanders not constituting a people and therefore not being entitled to self-determination. And please don't try to quote the support that some of the other members express for Argentina's sovereignty claim. That is not the same thing.
As far as I'm aware, there have been a number of occasions when Argentina has tried to have such a declaration included in various draft resolutions, but it has never been included.
And to clear up the legalities of self-determination, as with all other non-self-governing territories, the issue is between the inhabitants of the territory and the administering power. No one else, even in the case of a sovereignty dispute.

425 Think

“This is my interpretation, the Argentinean government interpretationand the overwhelming majority of the C24 delegates interpretation.”

Is the overwhelming majority of the C24 delegates interpretation of article 73 doceumented fact or is this again just your interpretation of their interpretation?

Importantantly it is NOT the UN interpretation. If it was then this would be clearly stated within the article itself, would it not?

(429) Pominoz

You say:
“Oh please, Think. Come one, pull the other one! There's no wriggling out of this one. You deliberately used the word “native”, when that word is not used at all in Article 73.”

Who is saying otherwise?
I answered Redhoyt's comment about Article 73 with my interpretation of it.

What I wrote was:
Article 73 applies, in its full extension, to ANY native population subjected to the rule of a colonial power…................. correct.
But NOT to the aforementioned colonial power’s implanted population composed of British soldiers and British civilian settlers ……………

That is still my interpretation of it….
I didn't “quote” it as being Article 73......
I didn't use “quotation marks”
I didn’t “modify” or “edit” any original text of Article 73

Big difference between “quoting” and “interpreting” lad….

So the Falkland Islanders are not a people, because they are “settlers”.

The people of Argentina are by and large a population of “settlers”, the great immigration to Argentina taking place largely from the 1880s onward. In point of fact the majority of Argentines have fewer generations in South America than many of the Falkland Islanders.

Were we to apply Think's “argument” to the people of Argentina, then apparently they're not a people. Cue howls of derision and displacement but note the simple reductio ad absurdum will not be rebutted. Again.

Further denial of a people their own identity on the basis of a false premise is simply racism. Pure and simple. Cue howls of derision and displacement but note the principle will not be rebutted. Again.

He can't rebutt Domingo's argument, so instead he harps on about a simple error, one readily acknowledged. Displacement to cover up the utter inability to present a cogent counter argument. Again.

Take the racist and biased argument you present to the ICJ Think, if you think it will do any good. Funnily enough I somehow doubt that they will.

Big difference here, one side presents historical facts, argues from pinciples of international law and the other side on the basis of personbal attacks and distraction from their lack of argument and the racist basis of the principles they espouse.

Fortunately the majority of Argentines are more informed than the committed Malvinistas who post here. Don't take the likes of El Stalker Thicko as the basis for your views of Argentina.

Cue howls of derision and displacement but note the lack of rebuttal. Again.

“implanted”
The UN makes no distiction of this word.

Think, no amount of polishing can make what you have been “interpreting” any more than it is - a big lump of dog turd!
In any event, your interpretation of Article 73 is not correct, as you yet again try to assert. Where does it say that “peoples” or “inhabitants” means “native population”?
If Article 73 was only meant to apply to “native populations” or “indigenous peoples” why is the Falkland Islands being dealt with by the C24?
And you didn't any provide proof of your assertion, or respond to my question at all for that matter, that the overwhelming majority of the other committee members support your/your Government's interpretation of that particle Article. Is that perhaps because what you are saying is another lump of dog turd?!

425 Think
'In all the other British non-self-governing territories on the UN list, the Self-determination question is one between the indigenous/ non indigenous population and the British Government.'

Which list is that? I had a quick look at the demographics of Bermuda, Pitcairn and the Cayman Islands; no indigenous populations there. Are you saying that if one of their neighbours took at fancy to them, then they wouldn't have any rights either?
Perhaps you'd like to lay claim to Bermuda? I'm sure it was a Spanish territory once. Or maybe the USA would, on the grounds of 'territorial integrity'?
Except of course they won't because they've got more sense.

I had a feeling that there were other non-self-governing territories that did not have a (or didn't have a majority) indigenous population. Thanks, Monty69, for confirming that.
So, Think, the plot thickens! Are you now going to admit that your interpretation of Article 73 is wrong and that the Falkland islanders are entitled to self-determination? I'm going to take a really deep breath and see what happens next...!

Cue howls of derision and displacement but note the lack of rebuttal. Again.

hahaha

Chuckling my head off now Think. Where you going to go now? Ad hominem? It's all you've got left...

The following territories do not have any indigenous populations, or they are very small. Some never had them as they were uninhabited when discovered by Europeans.

Currently on the list 9 out of 16
Anguilla, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Montserrat, Pitcairn Islands, Saint Helena (inc Tristan da Cunha), Turks and Caicos Islands, US Virgin Islands.

Formerly on the list 5 out of 35

Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Cabo Verde, Cocos Islands, Guadaloupe, Jamaica, Martinique, Mauritius, Réunion, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Seychelles.

Which goes to show what a load of crap the native/indigenous argument is.

You all notice how think changes his argument from 'article 73 only applies to natives' to 'it doesn't apply to the Falklands because there is a dispute. You know, the usual Argentine ploy of moving the goal posts.

think: see Belize re Guatemala dispute with.

“I say:
And…. As I have said innumerable times before, the Settleres are nice people but they do not constitute a “People”…………………..
They are a British occupation force militarily maintained into place during the last 178 years.”

No matter how many times you say it. A lie will always be a lie. And two lies will always be two lies.

“No........... I direct the word 'hypocrisy' repeatedly at the British because of their haughtiness and hypocrisy of moralizing to others about “self-determination” when they have not the least respect for “self-determination” themselves as the Chagossians plight so clearly demonstrates.”

Fair enough, you could interpret that as hypocritical rhetoric. What about the facts though Think: Britain was indeed negligent towards people in some of it's overseas territories, certainly to the Chagossians and before 1982 to the Falkland Islanders, the fact that they've changed their stance to at least some of the people they have a responsibility for is laudable rather than hypocritical, it would be even more laudable if they would repatriate the Chagos Islanders but sadly I cannot see that happening any time soon.

The 'hypocrisy' you refer to is rather like calling someone a hypocrite if, for instance, they support one good cause but not another. Do you think Britain is doing a bad thing by standing up for our rights against the colonial aspirations of a tyrannical neighbouring country?

So hard to teach an old dog new tricks !

My opinion will not be swayed by your logic and facts, I am Argentinian!

(433) PomInOz
Now we are talking……..
Interpretations… NOT quoting…..

And, of course, my interpretation of Article 73 is that it was written at the time to protect the native populations of the diverse Colonies and Territories around the world and NOT the implanted settlers from the Colonial Powers.

And I know that’s how most people at the UN read Article 73.

(434) Monty69
No disrespect but …..I don’t want to chat about all those constructed “IF’s” examples anymore…..

They don’t exist; Argentina is not claiming Bermuda, the Philippines or Southafrica.

What does exist is our claim over Malvinas…..

(435) to (440)
Chuckle… Chuckle… Chuckle….

I was just about to post my answers to “Pom” and “Monty” after finished a delicious Margaret’s Hope first-flush cup of tea……………….

Relax lads……It’ Friday……. Malvinas are not going anywhere soon.
Well…..As a matter of fact maybe they are …..
Just checked the stock value of the Malvinas Oil Companies.
All on their way down whilst the City steams with rumors about Rockhopper announcing something “Important” next week.

Please let us all join hands and elevate a prayer to our Lord for a big and resounding Duster :-)))

442 Think

“And I know that’s how most people at the UN read Article 73.”

This just your opinion again or provable fact?

442 Think

Ohhh don't throw your teddy out now, it was just getting interesting.

So, to summarise.......we are a special case because Argentina really wants us. Lovely. I can sense a warm fuzzy feeling coming on.

Still 'one to me' then.

(443) LegionNi

What do YOU think?

1) UN Charter Article 73 was written at the time to protect the hundred of millions of natives from the diverse Colonies and Territories around the world..

Or

2) UN Charter Article 73 was written at the time to protect some 2.500 implanted settlers from a former Colonial Powers.

That’s why Malvinas is such “Special Case”.
It has not been a similar one.
There is no similar one.
Special indeed!

Just your opinion then.

I don't interpret the document Think. I read it as written. It states the peoples of the territories. You INTERPRET this as meaning the native peoples only, but as you have stated yourself that is just your opinion.

Trouble is like the Argentine government you state your opinion giving the impression that is is fact, and like the Argentine government fail utterly to back up your opinion with any factual proof.

You make bold statement such as “And I know that’s how most people at the UN read Article 73.” and when challenged completely fail to back up your arguement.

If you are so sure of your claims, then provide the evidence. Perhpas then your government could do the same and provide the world with the evidnece to back up your countries claim also.

Until such time it's just your opinion and a lot of hot air to be honest.

“And, of course, my interpretation of Article 73 is that it was written at the time to protect the native populations of the diverse Colonies and Territories around the world and NOT the implanted settlers from the Colonial Powers.”

Again think, many of the territories do not have native populations, and the population of St Pierre and Miquelon is made up almost entirely of descendants of French settlers.

Article 73 was written to protect everyone from colonial domination. Why do you think the first line says:

“Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories...”?

(446) LegionNi

Why should I “back my opinion” to a person that doesn’t even has the wish to Think?

You “challenge“ me” you ”ask for “answers” and “factual proof” from me but when I ask ONE simple question like:

-- What do YOU think?
1) UN Charter Article 73 was written at the time to protect the hundred of millions of natives from the diverse Colonies and Territories around the world.
Or
2) UN Charter Article 73 was written at the time to protect some 2.500 implanted settlers from a former Colonial Power.

You answer with a:……”I don't interpret the document Think. …I read it as written.”

Nobody asked you to “interpret” any document boy.
I asked you a simple question:

Number 1 ?
Or
Number 2 ?

What a Turnip

The two are not mutually exclusive. Turnip.

Neither 1 or 2.

It was intended to protect the people of dependent territories. Which included the Falkland Islands at the time. The C24 is there to represent them, supposedly.

Classic device, presenting an incomplete list of choices. Tsk, what a root vegetable.

(449) Monty69

Ohhh Monty ...

You are the Malvinas White Dove of Peace.
Surrounded by all those hawkish Falkland Black Hawks.

I knew there would be a little place in your heart for answer nr. 1 :-)

I see you tried to go for fudge instead of ad hominem Think, but sadly you got smoked out - once again...

(416) Think

Yes I do usually cut and paste UNGA quotes, but didn't that time, I worked from memory & it landed me in trouble with you. This happened as a comment to another article some time ago, I believe, not here

I'm sorry you feel that way. I am only posting an opinion, for what is worth. I know we do not agree, it is unfortunate, nonetheless I do respect your opinion even if ours mostly differ, beleive it or not!

However, I am happy to agree with your point that the various Argentine settlements outside Argentina controlled territory
should be considered too

The fact remains a map of Argentina in 1833 looks very different to a map of Argentina in 2011 & the argument that proximity of the Malvinas to the Argentine mainland adding to the disruption of Argentine territorial integrity is quite different in practice based on a map of Argentina in 1833 compared to a map in 2011, that is all

For the record, I bear you no poster ill will, please do not interpret my rebuttals of your arguments & the presentation of my own
as personal, they are not. We all are just commenting our views, no more, no less. They are unlikely to amount to anything after all is said & done

As per 2065(XX) any solution to the dispute must bear in mind:

1.the provisions and objectives of the Charter of UN
2. General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) which covers the case of the Falkland Islands
3. the interests of the population

The Argentine position that its proposal does meet 1-3 except for self-determination & UK territorial integrity

Furthermore I do sincerely hope for an amicable settlement of this issue amongst all parties one day; it is my opinion that the current generations should chose friendship & cooperation to solve the problem & forgive the current generations for the past acts of previous generations to heal bad feeling

I have great hopes that a hearing in the UN ICJ might help advise or settle the matter one of these days

Fingers crossed for a happy outcome

(453) Domingo

You say:
”The fact remains a map of Argentina in 1833 looks very different to a map of Argentina in 2011 & the argument that proximity of the Malvinas to the Argentine mainland adding to the disruption of Argentine territorial integrity is quite different in practice based on a map of Argentina in 1833 compared to a map in 2011, that is all”

I say:
The fact remains a map of the British empire in 1833 looks very different to a map of Britain in 2011 & the argument that remoteness of the Malvinas to the British mainland adding to the disruption of British territorial integrity is quite different in practice based on a map of the British empire in 1833 compared to a map in 2011, that is all

The fact remains that as your own “’*(slightly modified)*” text proves, Britain has much less right to occupy the Malvinas today in 2011 than it had during its grandeur era as the British Empire in 1833.

Yes, I absolutely agree

That is why the Falkland Islands together with other remote British Overseas Territories were included in the UN GA Resolution 1514(XV) Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples

Whereby the UK is obliged to take immediate steps... to transfer all powers to the peoples of the Falklands Is,lands, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom

i.e. the Falkland Islanders have a free choice of political association or independence

Britain's diminished rights are subordinate to the Falkland Islanders explicit right to self-determination, whilst Argentina's rights are also diminished and subordinate to those of the Falkland Islanders

In fact, with the ratification of the 1850 peace treaty Convention between Great Britain and the Argentine Confederation, for the Settlement of existing Differences and the re-establishment of Friendship
and the UK's peaceful, effective and public occupation of the Falkland Islands and Argentine's unprovoked act of war in 1982 and defeat Argentina probably has no rights under international law

The UN ICJ could resolve this question

“The fact remains a map of the British empire in 1833 looks very different to a map of Britain in 2011”

Yes, that's because every single former British colony which has requested independence has been granted it. Those which have chosen otherwise have also had their wishes respected. It's no longer about Britain's right to “occupy” any particular territory, but rather, the right of the peoples who live in that territory to choose their own destiny.

Once again. Boxed into a corner Think...

I imagine Think is busy scouring the internet for personal information on the rest of you to try to make you back down.
Just wait for it.
It happened to me and Justin who will be next......
Can't win with facts and logic, attack with personal information, very very grown up of him don't you think?

(455) Domingo

All very nice Domingo but.....

Squatters have as little self-determination right to the land they are occupying as car thieves have self-determination rights over the cars they have stolen.

If you need to, you can start now with your “historical parallel” about whites being squatters because they exterminated Indians….or Chinks….or Eskimos…. or Negroes .... or…

Be my guest...... Get somebody to lobby specifically against Argentina for that universal crime, organize all the Indigenous Peoples of the world against us, denounce us to the European Union and the UN, deny us all services and cooperation…………………. …………………..

Your people, remind me soo much of those motorists that when being fined for speeding, constantly point fingers at other fast driving cars whilst screeching at the constable:…. What about him,…. and him.. ….And whaaaat about Hiiiiiiiiim....

Well………….It is Britain and the Falklanders that have been stopped this time….. and it is Britain and the Falklanders that will have to take the heat.

Get use to it

Think, correct me if I am wrong but under Argentinian law if you are a squatter you acquire the property by default after 5 years, right?

Hmm some Falklanders have been there for 250+ I guess by your own laws it's theirs by default.

Squatters, eh? Yet in all the time on think has been on these forums he has been utterly incapable of proving the Falklands ever were Argentine territory. As far as I know, unlike other Argentines, he has never even tried to.

@458

Indeed Britain did many bad things in the past and now you admit that Argentina did as well. I know I've been guilty (along with many others) of using the 'when are you going to give Argentina back to the people you stole it from' quip but we all know that that is unrealistic and unreasonable, you can't turn back the clock.....Trouble is think is that even if you had a solid, irrefutable claim to sovereignty of the Falklands (like, for instance, the native South Americans could be siad to have over the mainland states of South Americaa) you still can't turn back the clock regarding us either, how does the saying go...What's sauce doe the goose is sauce for the gander.
:-)

448 Think

If you state your opinion in a public forum and expect your opinion to be respected for what it is then you must be willing to back that opinion with some sort of evidence.

I will do you the courtesy of answering your question.

My answer is neither 1 or 2 as you put it. I believe the document should be interpreted literally, so the people of the territory is the people who live there.

So now I have paid you the courtesy of answering your question perhaps you will do me the same courtesy and answer mine?

Who are the native population of the Falklands to whom you think the article should apply?

Also who are the people at the UN who interpret the document the same way as yourself and your government?

Come now Think. You wanted your question answered, now have the balls to answer mine and all the other questions that have been put to you, or will you show yourself to be no better than your government by throwing around baseless accusations without a single shred of proof to back up your statements?

(461) WestisBest

You say:
”We all know that that is unrealistic and unreasonable, you can't turn back the clock”

I say:
Yes We Can
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY
Not to the “beginning of time” no,.... not for the death but…..
Yes We Can turn back the clock for us living.
As complicated as that…..

Personally when I want to turn back the clock I simply pull out the crown of my old Portuguese watch and turn it clockwise to the desired time :-)