MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil ratifies no-support policy for UK military or government vessels linked to Malvinas
Defence minister Arturo Puricelli said Monday that Argentina “has no conflict hypothesis with countries from the region” and thanked the “strong support” from his visiting Brazilian peer Nelson Jobim regarding Argentine sovereignty over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMaybe UK should stop procastinating at the UN and give up it's 180 year old Malvinas Argentina obsession.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
Yet another little nail in Britain's diplomatic coffin on the South Atlantic.......
Feb 15th, 2011 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tic tack Think ... nothing new as you well know, although I note that the coffin is now a 'diplomatic' one. :-)
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... Brazil will not grant any collaboration to military vessels or government civilian vessels from the United Kingdom and will not collaborate with oil or energy explorations in the South Atlantic Islands....”
What is a 'government civilian vessel' ? More importantly, what is the agreed definition of 'collaboration' ??
“ ... “The South Atlantic is precisely for countries in the South Atlantic”....”
Hey, Britain is one of those .... although somehow I can't see us giving up the nuclear option!
Same old, same old .... Argentina is in an election year and the new Pres of Brazil is trying to shore up her support.
Found this interesting -
http://westphalianpost.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/brazils-monroe-doctrine/
@2 - I don't think so, we don't Brazils surpport for military or government civilain ships or that for oil exploration and extraction. Agrentina and Brazil aren't the only countries in the South Atlantic and the US ports and Carribean island Ports aren't that far away either, and am sure they'll be more then willing to benefit from the extra income.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“nothing new as you well know”
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0The typical British response to this kind of news. To pretend that everything is as always.
“What is a 'government civilian vessel' ?”
Perhaps a government vessel that is not of military use? C'mon, you have more imagination than that.
“ although somehow I can't see us giving up the nuclear option!”
What nuclear option? Are you following the delusions of pubescent Typhoon with his aggressive revenge fantasies that will never materialize?
“Found this interesting -
westphalianpost.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/brazils-monroe-doctrine/”
It's typical Northener supremacy crap. The aggressive language of the author points to someone who's extremely partisan - and thus whose worldview is of necessity inaccurate - and angry about the failures of his own preferred party in the political arena. But of course one would find interesting that which corroborates his own flawed and simple-minded opinions.
You sound angry and frustrated TIT ... something wrong?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, things are as always - this article is headed ' Brazil ratifies no-support policy ...“ Ratifies TIT, i.e confirms/approves something already stated/done. So this tic tac is a used tic tac. Repeating the same news 5 times does not mean 5 tic tacs.
” .. a government vessel that is not of military use ..“
Maybe we have some but I can't think what they would be ... don't think the UK government owns a barge!
” ... What nuclear option ...”?
Now you are being a tit, TIT, you know as well as everyone else that the UK has permanently a submarine at sea which is armed with nuclear missiles. It can be anywhere and the south Atlantic is usefully large and sparsely inhabited. Not that I think we'd use them against South America .. after all, the conventional options have proved sufficient before.
As for the link, well you've got form for quickly dismissing any opinion that does not accord with your own. I said it was 'interesting' ..... it is!
Yet another nail in Argentine independence.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is interesting too -
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2011/02/14/Brazil-aims-to-expand-arms-industry-market-in-S-America/UPI-29681297723006/
Argentina. soon to be a colony of Brazil
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has a nuclear submarine in the S. Atlantic! BIG DEAL. Argentina itself is capable of enriching uranium: this means it can produce nuclear weapons in a certain amount of time if only it chooses to do so. And the more threatened it feels, the more tempted it will be to make this choice. No country would behave differently in this situation and, if I'm not mistaken, the NPT itself provides member countries green light to leave the treaty if only they can justify this with reasonable arguments. A nuclear threat: I think that would make a reasonable argument. Will Argentina leave the NPT in the near future? Of course not. But the UK won't do anything unusual with its submarines either. So let's move past this, shall we?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for the link, it purpots to show why Brazil should align itself with a country tens of thousands of miles away, a nation with which it hasn't had a close relationship since the 1870s, over a neighboring nation and a major trade partner, only because the aforementioned distant nation is close to a third country that is helping Brazil build some submarines. That's quite a contorted and ridiculous argument! And more importantly, it's flawed. It's not bigger nations that should be acting so as to counterbalance the “influence” of smaller nations. It's them, the smaller nations, that should be worrying about that - and they usually do, they usually resort to more distant heavyweights when they fear the influence some neighboring hegemon wannabe or when they feel slighted by them. If Brazil took the dumb decision of not supporting Argentina's campaing to recover sovereignty over the FI, Argentina could easily hurt Brazil's feelings by building a close relationship with, say, Russia (like Venezuela is already doing) or China.
Yup, that's what I said ..... interesting :-)
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina itself is capable of enriching uranium”
Feb 15th, 2011 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yup, Argentina is capable of many things, but for some reason never quite achieves them...
Yes, understandable that the new Brasilian government should align with Argentina but sad that they should translate this into distancing from the UK.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But note that they make no comment on the legality of Argentina's 'claim' of these islands.
The position is readily reversible when the time is opportune. Someone asked 'what is a Government non-military vessel'? This would, I imagine, include British Antarctic Survey vessels; but most of these ONGs are becoming no longer Government associated organisations. My guess is that Jobim knew this when he made his statement.
“Argentina itself is capable of enriching uranium”
Feb 15th, 2011 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah for nuclear power plants, but not weapons grade! Hell you got 2 Power Plants and you can't even get them running right, let alone beable to build Nuclear Weapons!
“
Critics cite inefficiencies and waste of resources among problems that have prevented the two plants from operating to full capacity. Refurbishment and upgrade will cost tens of millions of dollars that Argentina doesn't have.
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2010/10/26/Argentina-to-start-uranium-enrichment-next-year/UPI-64461288128980/#ixzz1E20aTeey”
oops, UK losing control of yet another colony/nation/island that it's determined to keep. How many tens of times has this happened in the last 100 years? rofl
Feb 15th, 2011 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0poor UK, there's no kingdom left, I guess London will just have to lean harder on Scottland and Northern Ireland now.
LOL @ stagnant, bloating debt UK!
Hoyt,
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you know as well as everyone else that the UK has permanently a submarine at sea which is armed with nuclear missiles”
Yes hoyt we know...
http://wonkette.com/427479/dumb-british-submarine-stuck-in-mud
http://wonkette.com/427479/dumb-british-submarine-stuck-in-mud
awwww mr masterbates, can't you provide a intelligent counter argument. Without having to result to posting raving gibberish?
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guess not. By the way 2 words SELF DETERMINATION.
You really should read up on it, as i hear shaking hands with the general can result in the loss off brain cell's though i geussing your brain is beyond the point of rapir by now.
Teaboy or Fredbc favorite song...
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQwvkVlhCAU
LOL @ stagnant, bloating debt UK!
Feb 15th, 2011 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#6 is good to know that Argentine should be going nuclear rather then waste our money and time in regular subs, not that we will ever use them against illegal aliens in Islas Malvinas Argentina but as you said it's always good to be prepared like Iran and N Korea are with their nuclear defence program, I thank you for supporting a nuclear defence program in Argentina, we have to send UK a clear message we mean busyness and get them to spend billions in military.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 017 Teaboy2
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What!!! Guess not. By the way 2 words SELF DETERMINATION.
FORGET IT, Man!!!!! That will never happen! Malvinas Argentina iIslands will again be in the near future! Do not forget that! Red Rotted! Yes!! this year election in Argentina! But that will not change at all, and the new government that will come is going to tighten its policy for the recovery of the islands, colonies are disappearing. This 2011 is going to be different, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay will have to be strong in this continent, Argentina is having more and more support! so. ....the time is running out! Brits
well if this is true, then the following may help you.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The sooner you try, the sooner you will make yourselve look stupid and go home.
#17 We are all free to have selfdetermiation even UK unless UK is keeping you from having a voice at the UN, file a complain to your government, if you know who they are.
Feb 15th, 2011 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/darwin_clifton.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE
www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3388670&c=AME&s=SEA
@23
Feb 15th, 2011 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats true we are all entitled to the right of SEFL DETERMINATION (Including the Falklander Islanders but that doesn't entitle you to discont the rights of self determination of the islanders in favour of your own, does it? No! As for the WIKI leaks serious is that the best you can do, how about some official Historical records instead of the of user inputted that changes with every new argument over the facts.
“The British are the first to record the existence of the islands. John Davis sights them in 1592. John Strong is the first to land, in 1690. He names the islands after the treasurer of the navy, Viscount Falkland, and then sails on.
1776 British led by Governor Samuel Clayton withdraw their naval garrison from Port Egmont, but leave a lead plaque claiming British sovereignty over all the Islands;
Viceroyalty of Buenos Aries is established, with jurisdiction over the Islands”
Ohh 1592 discovered by british and first landed on and named in 1690 by the brits and claim to sovereignty as far back as 1776 before argentina even existed as a country and beofre spain ceded south american territory to you, which did not include the islands, as they where not spains to give. Kind of kicks any historical argument you have to the islands out the window doesn't it.
@18 Marcos ravingmadjandro - As i said earlier today, i am not Fredbc. Though i had to laugh at the video :) Maybe i was wrong and you do have a sense of humour after all.
@19 Mr Masterbates
“LOL @ stagnant, bloating debt UK!”
Lol Bloating, i suggest you look at your own Debt record and current inflation rate of 10.9 percent (in December of 2010), before you accuse others of having a stagnate and bloated economy. Oh but then gievn you have lost all your brain cell's from shaking the generals hand so often, you would understand the world of economics would you lol.
#24
Feb 15th, 2011 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/falkland.htm
“It is hotly debated as to who was the first person to spot the Falkland Islands. The English, Spanish and Dutch all claim to have sighted the islands”
“the British did formally leave the islands and they passed into the Spanish Empire for the next forty years. This arrangement was formally recognised by the British in the 1790 Nootka Sound Convention by which Britain formally rejected any colonial ambitions in 'South America and the islands adjacent'. It also reflected a weakening of British power in the Western Hemisphere coming shortly after the embarrassing loss of the 13 colonies partly thanks to French and Spanish intervention.”
“The Spanish claim on the islands would falter with the South American Wars for Independence at the start of the nineteenth century. The Spanish removed their formal representative and settlers from the island from 1810 and completed it by 1811. The islands were left to their own fate for the next decade as sealing and whaling ships might call in from time to time to take advantage of the harbour and fresh water. It was not to be until 1820 that the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata would send a frigate to the islands in order to assert their control as part of the legacy of post-colonial Spanish claims to authority there. Buenos Aires would appoint their first governor in 1823”
3. The Malvinas Islands Question in International Organisations
Feb 15th, 2011 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 03.1. United Nations – General Assembly
On 14 December 1960, the General Assembly adopted Resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples”, which proclaimed “the necessity of bringing to a speedy and unconditional end colonialism in all its forms and manifestations“, enshrining two fundamental principles that were to guide the decolonisation process: that of self-determination and territorial integrity
In this framework, the specificity of the Malvinas Islands Question lies in the fact that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, violating Argentine territorial integrity. Therefore, the possibility of applying the principle of self-determination is ruled out, as its exercise by the inhabitants of the islands would cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. Any other form of proceeding in this case would imply the validation of an act of usurpation that has violated the territorial integrity of the Argentine Republic.
The General Assembly included this doctrine in its resolution 2065 (XX) in 1965, which was ratified by other resolutions in 1973, 1976, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987 and 1988. They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and reaffirm the invitation made in resolution 2065 (XX) to the Parties “to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)“.
As of 2004, and by virtue of a
Very nice, Kiwi. We may well seek independence one day but it will be when the time is right for us. You have no say in the matter whatsoever.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for territorial integrity, this is complete bollox.
Who said the Falkland Islands were an integral part of your territory anyway, apart from you?
And who said our right to self- determination and an existence ' free of colonialism in all its forms and manifestations' was less important than your territorial integrity? No-one, apart from you.
“ ... enshrining two fundamental principles that were to guide the decolonisation process: that of self-determination and territorial integrity ...”
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have you not yet got around to reading the Kosovo case Kiwi'sarse?
Self Determination is the right the islanders have and all your attempts at disguising that fact will fall apart. And Monty is quite right, Argentina has NO territorial integrity that includes the British Falkland Islands.
MoreCrap - still quoting from the web site that admits that it has made mistakes ... typical for an RG that!
27 Monty69
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0I found this article interesting and throw it here to discuss it! I was completely polite in this, not to take it very badly!
Red Rotten
It is not crap!!!This web was very good
#24 the british illegal occupation in Malvinas have all their rights in UK, you can't expect Argentina to give hear to illegal aliens who's country will not respond for them at the UN. I think even the UK deports illegal aliens don't they ?? you can try Canada, Australia or USA and they all do the same, if you have no visa you get a deportation order.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I could be wrong, maybe europids just don't like to (be treated as they treat others), I think the illegal aliens should file a complain to their local leaders, whomever they are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Vernet
”Governor Luis Vernet arrived in Puerto Soledad in 1829 and reverted to the use of the original French name as Puerto Luis. The settlement was only established in 1828 after several abortive attempts and following the abandonment of the previous Spanish and British colonies in the Falklands in 1811 and 1776 respectively (although both nations left behind a note of their visit and appreciation for Islas Malvinas Argentina).”
Wrong again Marcos Ravingmadjandro
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the nookta sound convention had little to do with the falklands per se - Only the first Nootka Convention plays a role in the disputed sovereignty of the Falkland Islands between the United Kingdom and Argentina. Article VI provided that neither party would form NEW (key words there are Neither party and NEW) establishments on any of the islands adjacent to the east and west coasts of South America (South America then being occupied by Spain). Both retained the right to land and erect temporary structures on the coasts and islands for fishery-related purposes. The Nootka Convention's applicability to the Falklands dispute is controversial and complicated due to the fact no soveriegnty was ceded by either party.
The Nootka sound conventions primary objective was to resolve the following - The Nootka Conventions were a series of three agreements between the Kingdom of Spain and the Kingdom of Great Britain, signed in the 1790s which averted a war between the two empires over overlapping claims to portions of the Pacific Northwest coast of North America.
Now as for the Nootka sound it itself, well it's located on the west coast Vancouver Island (thats Canada by the way)
So i think you'll find neither gave up soveriengty to the islands, but simply both renouced any further colonianal intentions on the east and west coast of south america.
As for you last paragraph, well that is a load of rubbish, you clearly forget that in 1776 the British led by Governor Samuel Clayton withdraw their naval garrison from Port Egmont, but leave a lead plaque claiming British sovereignty over all the Islands;
Viceroyalty of Buenos Aries is established, with jurisdiction over the Islands.
So get your facts right marco!
Nope!! you wrong!!!!!31 Teaboy21. The Malvinas Islands became part of an area under Spanish jurisdiction with the entry into force of the first international instruments to delimit the “New World” soon after the discovery in 1492. The Papal Bulls and the Treaty of Tordesillas of 1494 are the first instruments reflecting Spanish titles in accordance with the international law of the age.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0For most of the 16th century only navigators in the service of Spain travelled the maritime routes along the South American coast, advancing southwards in their search for an inter-oceanic passage. In this process the Malvinas Islands were discovered by members of Magallanes’ expedition of 1520. From that moment on they were recorded on European maps under a variety of different names and remained under effective control of the Spanish authorities.
During the 17th century the Malvinas Islands were sighted by navigators from other nations who had ventured into Spanish domains at the risk of provoking reactions and protests from Spain whenever it received news of such expeditions. But the whole southern region of America, with its coasts, seas and islands, was indisputably preserved under Spanish sovereignty through the different treaties signed in the period, such as the “American “ Treaty of 1670 between Spain and England.
The Peace of Utrecht, signed in 1713, assured the integrity of Spain’s possessions in South America and confirmed its exclusive right to sail in the waters of the South Atlantic. As a signatory of the Utrecht agreements, and of later treaties in the 18th century ratifying it, England accepted these clauses. However, towards the middle of that century, the Malvinas Islands provoked the interest of Great Britain and France, which were seeking to establish a strategically located settlement opposite the Magallanes’ Strait.
In 1749, Spain received news of a British project to settle in the Malvinas Islands, and strongly protested to the government of the United
“ The Malvinas Islands became part of an area under Spanish jurisdiction with the entry into force of the first international instruments to delimit the “New World” soon after the discovery in 1492. The Papal Bulls and the Treaty of Tordesillas of 1494 are the first instruments reflecting Spanish titles in accordance with the international law of the age. ”
Feb 16th, 2011 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really?? kind of impossible for that to be true since they were not Officialy (Officialy being internationally recongised as) spotted till 1592. So i find it hard to belive that Treaty of Tordesillas of 1494 applys to undicovered land that remained undiscovered til 98 years after the treaty when the treaty only applied to the newly dicovered land at the time of its signing. Not only that the Treaty was not internationally recognised specfically by other european nations and in another america and asia. And i fail to see how such a treaty given how it was formed and created would stand as a valid treaty in ICJ. The attitude towards the treaty that other governments had was expressed in a statement attributed to France's King Francis I, “Show me Adam's will!” LOL Not only that going by the treaty, it would give all land east and west of the line in the southern hemisphere to the Spanish and Portugeues, jesus next you'll be claiming australia under the same dam treaty and signapore.
As for the American treaty of 1970 i assume your referring to the Treaty of Madrid 1970 since no American Treaty of 1670 is known to me. As such the Treaty of Madrid was a treaty between England and Spain. Under the terms of the treaty, Spain recognized British possessions in the Caribbean Sea: “all those lands, islands, colonies and places whatsoever situated in the West Indies.” Britain took formal control of Jamaica and the Cayman Islands after the treaty was signed. Spain also agreed to permit English ships freedom of movement in the Caribbean. Each country agreed to refrain from trading in the other's territory.
Bringo on ICJ!
Teagirl 31, If you think is wrong feel free to complain to the many British historians that are honest enough to write the truth, like or not.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mrcos ravingmadjandro.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 01 - its teaboy.
and
2 - You mean the wiki historians? Lol yeah wiki is really 100% true and written 100% by proffessional historians!
I think you'll find that wiki is made up of amatuer contributions more so than proffessional historian contributions.
NOw given the fact only the argies have disputed the historical information with their de minimus claims, and given the fact you argies are unable to hold your argument when a counter argument is offered, it's pretty obivious whos got their facts right and who hasn't. Which unfortunately for you argies, its you that never have the right facts.
Simply accusing one of not writing the truth without providing any actual historical facts to counter what they said, is nothing more than a loser's desperate attempt to discredit them. Especially when others have actually knocked down what you 'Marcos' had yourselve posted as historical facts from wiki.
Ha! Argentines still relying on those Papal Bulls and the Treaty of Tordesillas!
Feb 16th, 2011 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, under the terms of the Bulls and the Treaty, you Argentines agree that South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands belong to Portugal and/or its successors then, do you? Since these islands fall within the sphere of Portugal according to the Bulls and Treaty, I expect that we'll be hearing that these islands are no longer claimed by Argentina and have been dropped from its Constitution?...Or not!
#32 Kiwisarg
Feb 16th, 2011 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still banging on about Spanish rights. So it was a matter between Spain and Britain, if anything. Argentina did not inherit ANYTHING from Spain so is completely irrelevant.
Carry on, making a fool of yourself.
32KiwiArg - Get your history into reality - Capt John Davis and his ship Desire were English -not Spanish and he is the first person to actually write down and formally RECORD the sighting of the Islands. That is a historical fact - nobody else before him ever wrote down what they did or did not see.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also it is a written historical fact that the first ever RECORDED landing and formal written and RECORDED Sovereignty Claim was by another Englishman - Capt Strong in 1690.
I have no doubt you could source archives in Britain to get sight of the original documents if you want.
However the key and only really valid thing under UN basic rights is that the people who have populated and been living in the Islands now, some for up t0 10 generations is that of Self Determination.Nothing you or anyone else can do about that.
Quite right, the matter was between Britain and Spain and was resolved initially in 1771 and finally in 1833.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing to do with Argentina! No Uti Posedetis Juris! No inheritance ...... nothing. The islands are British, de jure, de facto .... de anyway you like :-)
Looks like the argies have creid themselves to sleep LOL!
Feb 16th, 2011 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Teagirl,
Feb 16th, 2011 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You mean the wiki historians?”
Not really, I just have to read any Official British history book before nationalist liars pressure to change it.
“Official British history of the Falklands War is considered too pro-Argentina”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
32KiwiArg - Get your history into reality - Capt John Davis and his ship Desire were English -not Spanish and he is the first person to actually write down and formally RECORD the sighting of the Islands. That is a historical fact - nobody else before him ever wrote down what they did or did not see.
Feb 16th, 2011 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also it is a written historical fact that the first ever RECORDED landing and formal written and RECORDED Sovereignty Claim was by another Englishman - Capt Strong in 1690.
I have no doubt you could source archives in Britain to get sight of the original documents if you want.
However the key and only really valid thing under UN basic rights is that the people who have populated and been living in the Islands now, some for up t0 10 generations is that of Self Determination.Nothing you or anyone else can do about that
Wrong agaian!
P& P:Certified liars.http://www.history.horizon.co.fk/chronology.html
Map,circa 1562,first recorded,nothing british about:http://www.history.horizon.co.fk/chronology.html
Sorry pal,get it rigth!
No Davies or Hawkins,wrong description of Malvinas
perhaps the person first to land on the Falklands was probably an African fisherman somewhere around 1,000bc, but we cant prove that,
Feb 16th, 2011 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps an Argentinean found the Falklands, you cant prove that,
the British then, we can prove that,/// British then, British now, British tomorrow .
It wasn’t Argentinean yesterday, nor is it today nor will it be tomorrow,
Go home Argentina no one want you .
43 briton
Feb 16th, 2011 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0man, we are here to exchange some issues like educated people and I think You are old vinegar embittered with little sense of humor, aggressive and bit polite, man! Rotten and you, Please stop drinking! please take care and smile while you can, then we will see over time. Pirates!!! Go home!!!
42- Lieutenat - I stand by it- FACTUAL RECORDED - as apart from yours that are possible, and assumed ,and maybes etc! Factual is what someone formally wrote down and RECORDED.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 02:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0#41
Feb 17th, 2011 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol Marcos Ravingmadjandro, seriously since when has the daily telegraph been official records of bristish history? in regards to the book inquestion, it did contain flaws, and as the article said, historians pointed out the flaws and as such they are to be corrected prior to anymore copies being published. Also older history books containing the official history of the falklands did not have such mistakes in them. So Marcos, as far as most people see it, the author of the book is human and perfectly capable of making such factual errors, but it doesn't change the facts of the official british history records, found at the natinonal archives, that are also factually supported by other nations official history records such as SPAIN's.
Infact its only your country whos history records contradict them, but them when you have a government that relies on staying in office by drumming up rehtoric about the falklands, it;s pretty clear they need an official history roecord that contradicts the rests of the worlds.
wasn’t Argentinean yesterday, nor is it today nor will it be tomorrow,
Feb 17th, 2011 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go home Argentina no one want you .
We are at home.uk goes back to the North atlantic,were you belong.No body wants the brits in the South Atlantic...
Ridicouslo,to make a case with 2000 people......
Out of their mind the brits...
All alone in the block.....
AHAHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
boy you argies just dont exept the truth do you, only your history counts,.
Feb 17th, 2011 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the british are at home, and so are you, we in the falklands and you in argentina,, but you guys are so desperate to be british you just cant keep away, and we dont want you, so cry if you must, condem like you do, but we still dont want you, why dont you try chile
“The South Atlantic is precisely for countries in the South Atlantic”
Feb 17th, 2011 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blank and white, cut and dry.
44 Kiwisarg
Feb 17th, 2011 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Pirates!!! Go home!!!' ????
Is this how educated people exchange views where you come from?
50 Monty69
Feb 18th, 2011 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0well, let me think! Are you the Briton's lawyer? Briton, Sorry man!! I'm going to be more gentle with you.
I'm going to answer your question, I was born in Argentina but I have lived and live outside of Argentina and the Malvinas Argentinas. Are you English? or Where you come from?
thats ok man .
Feb 18th, 2011 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0you're welcome!!
Feb 18th, 2011 - 02:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't this roughly the 20th time in the last 20 years that Argentina claims that Brazil has “ratified” its “unquestionable rights”...to the Falklands?
Feb 18th, 2011 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I seem to recall that there were a helluva lot of “ratifications” for Argentina's henious incestuous claim during the early 90's.
It seems to me that most of these are symbolic gestures rather than anything concrete.
All fart no smell or so the phrase goes.....bets on what date the next “ratification” from Brazil or a near neighbour will come?
the point is, would brazil go to war ,and support Argentina over the falklands.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0if its yes, then argentina can mouth of about it, but as the answer is almost certainly NO. then i suggest argentina just gives up and goes home to bed .
42- Lieutenat - I stand by it- FACTUAL RECORDED - as apart from yours that are possible, and assumed ,and maybes etc! Factual is what someone formally wrote down and RECORDED Islander the best record is a map,in geography.Moreover the description of Davies and Hawkins are inaccurate.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0They just herd some sailors about Malvinas.They never created maps about the Island.Another lie,added to the long list of lies by the british,in their imperial quest
Lies Estervarse? You can look them up in the Royal Maritime museum.
Feb 19th, 2011 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0so if the UK can lie......is thus logical to assume that Argentina can and has lied over their end of the sovereignty claim as well.
That will keep you up all night thinking :)
The British have never been known to lie,
Feb 19th, 2011 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they merely stretch the truth
Argentina on the other hand
does not understand the truth, therefore prone to lying .
Well come on , even thats not quite true, more like stretch, bend, fold....but argieteeena, well kinda fingers in the ears and ' blah blah blah im not listening' attitude prevails down to pure lies...like with Kirchners totally false economic figures....
Feb 20th, 2011 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do not worry about the kirchners,goch.Worry about the bankrupt,uk.
Feb 20th, 2011 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many generations will take to pay the 8.9 trillions dollars of foreign debt?
2,3,4 generations?/
Looosers!!
Go and do something useful: WORK for a change!
well easily, its called a structured economy, and not lying to the IMF with made up figures.....easy really...we will just have to tighten up the braces a few years....thats what capitolism is based on, speculation, investments etc...somtimes it goes wrong....but if your a corrupt lying sad little nation in South America, the outlook is much bleaker my dear Gringo.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0And whats this about going to work? id be suprised if argentina manged one day where there werent thousands on strike or threatening to strike.
Really,goch? Still we live better than the uk.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI&NR=1
That is the reality: uk is BANKRUPT!!!
You live better than the UK?? lol now i know you're smoking crack
Feb 21st, 2011 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are so primitive.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know Argentina?
You are so ridicouslo
You do not smoke crack
You are a failure!
Well let me see.How many houses you own in the uk?
How many automoviles you own?
What education you have?
Lol so that is your yard stick in life, the amount of cars you have, the properties, i wonder who you'll be voting for this year...Cristina by any chance? the worst socialist in the world, most currupt politician in south america , would even make Hugo Chavez look like a destitute.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you Timermans love child?
Really?,instead you have no corruption in the uk?
Feb 21st, 2011 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who told you?the financial times?Or penguin news?
I was in London in Summer.Do you know Argentina?
So I can speak about that.
Again: How many houses do you own in “the great uk”?
I told you,in Argentina we live better,in average than the uk
Come and see for youself
Eh?? more blabbering, who said we didnt have corruption, all politicians are corrupt to some degree, its what power does to people, but its the millions the kirchners stole from the public thats disgusting.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0And i say once again, what has property ownership between two individuals got to do with how well a country is to live in?
And you do make me laugh when you say argie people have a better way of life , keep it up, it will give everyone here a giggle
Really? You are challenging my statement,goch.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 05:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0So I can speak,from a direct experience.No something I have read or somebody told me.
Argentina,in this moment is booming,that is the reality.
Record Automovile production,record Energy consumption,record production of Soybean,beef,lemmons,blueberry, Aluminum,uranium,etc...
No,I will not vote for kirchner.
But that is a different issue.
Property ownership means,an average person in a country,can afford a property,food,pays the bills,etc..,is an indication of wealth,or well beign.
http://www.adefa.com.ar/v2/index.php
http://www.adefa.com.ar/v2/index.php
Selling Nuclear reactor to Australia,to replace the aging nuclear reactor
http://www.adefa.com.ar/v2/index.php
regards
And after all that property and industry, where in the world does your economy sit?
Feb 21st, 2011 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0country per GDP:
Uk 5th arguably 6th
Argentina 28th
World curruption rankings:
Uk 20th
Argentina 105th
Digest on that my good fellow :)
Nice try,still,they live better than the uk.Come and see for yourself....
Feb 21st, 2011 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who makes the ranking?
Debt/GDP,is far higher in the uk!
8.9 trillion dollars foreign.....
GDP
nice try? its a fact ! the lower GDP is just one of those things, but the corruption placing, thats appalling for a so called modern country, ranks you similar to third world african nations!
Feb 21st, 2011 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Again , 8.9 trillion...so what...the point is its being managed, no bailouts, no inner city slums, no mass strikes crippling the country at will. Capitolism needs debt, as long as you're country isnt making up growth figures like Kirchner, then its somthing that can be dealt with.
world rankings, UN, many other independant listings, the highest ive seen Argentina is 85th out of 180 for curruption. Now don't tell me the UN is making up figures!
As for automotive ? ive never seen an argentinean car? are they built well enough to be sold overseas? Krikey if bloody Proton can sell cars here and Argies can't, doesnt say much for your brands!
@71, l think they make a copy of the Australian/American Ford Falcon.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 07:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0which is no bad thing as they had a name in se.asia as a very reliable, roomy car(the Falcon that is,don't know what their copy was like).
ISOLDE: Wrong,l think they make a copy of the Australian/American Ford Falcon.
Feb 21st, 2011 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0which is no bad thing as they had a name in se.asia as a very reliable, roomy car(the Falcon that is,don't know what their copy was like).
Really? That model was phased out 15 years ago in Argentina.
Let see,the most sold models in Argentina: FIAT SIENA
http://www.mundoautomotor.com.ar/web/2007/11/03/fiat-siena-2008-nuevo-diseno/
Chevrolet AGILE:
http://www.mundoautomotor.com.ar/web/2007/11/03/fiat-siena-2008-nuevo-diseno/
FORD FOCUS II:http://www.mundoautomotor.com.ar/web/2007/11/03/fiat-siena-2008-nuevo-diseno/
The complete list of auto productions in Argentina,record breaking production:
http://www.mundoautomotor.com.ar/web/2007/11/03/fiat-siena-2008-nuevo-diseno/
get an update on Argentina,once in a while
Lol Twit Estevez, so which brand is argentinian then? because all the brands listed on the Adefa site link you gave, are either European brands and/or North American. Your simply producing them on production license and as such do not have a brand company of your own in the automotive industry. As such, if it wasn't for strong markets in europe (including uk) and in north America, non of those companies would have expanded its production to south america let alone Argentina.
Feb 22nd, 2011 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0So nice try but you shot yourself in the foot with that one. In fact most of your automotive exports goto brazil, Total domestic production being 724,023 for the year of 2010
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/01/11/car-sales-in-argentina-soar-43-in-2010-exports-increase-38-mostly-to-brazil
However the UK in Jan 2011 (yep this year) made 110,179, a 9% increase on jan 2009 - 85% of which were exported internationally across the globe. Now times jan 2011 production rates by 12 and that gives us 1,322,148 estimated units produced by the end of 2011. with an esitmated 75% - 85% exported across the globe. Thats 598,125 more units produced this year than what argentina produced in the entire year of 2010.
So what were you saying about the UK Automobile industry? Argentine production may be up record breaking amounts but its got a hell of along way to go before it can come close to competeing with the UK aotumotive industry.
@73TteEstevez. touchy little critter aren't you? lf you had even bothered to read my post l said “l think” not “l know” and l was complimenting the original car so we would presume that the Argentine car was a good one too.
Feb 22nd, 2011 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everyone l knew who owned a Falcon was very pleased with the car.
You ought to get out more and stop being so defensive
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