MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Chile looking for a new icebreaker to strengthen presence in Antarctica
The Chilean Navy icebreaker is scheduled to be decommissioned in four years time so “we are in the task of considering a replacement” revealed Third Naval Zone Commander Rear Admiral Rafael Gonzalez during a press conference in Punta Arenas to review results of the last Antarctic season. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesChile and Argentina need to formalize joint sovereignty of Antártida, it just needs to happen.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0We're already keeping the dirty Brits and their fraudulent claims at bay in full partnership.
Combining both Naval operations would be much more efficient and consistent with the spirit of trust and cooperation outlined years ago. We're already patrolling the Beagle Channel and the Antarctic sector together with the P.A.N.C, Patrulla Antártica Naval Combinada.
http://www.armada.cl/patrulla-antartica-naval-combinada-realizo-ejercicio-de-control-de-contaminacion/prontus_armada/2011-01-07/100038.html
http://www.armada.cl/patrulla-antartica-naval-combinada-realizo-ejercicio-de-control-de-contaminacion/prontus_armada/2011-01-07/100038.html
http://www.armada.cl/patrulla-antartica-naval-combinada-realizo-ejercicio-de-control-de-contaminacion/prontus_armada/2011-01-07/100038.html
l think that Britain should share Antarctica with Chile & keep the dirty Argentines ridiculous claims out.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think Chile would disagree.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Antarctic-Territory-Claims-Argentina-And-Chile-Join-Forces-Against-British-Claim-On-Region/Article/200903115236672
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Antarctic-Territory-Claims-Argentina-And-Chile-Join-Forces-Against-British-Claim-On-Region/Article/200903115236672
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Antarctic-Territory-Claims-Argentina-And-Chile-Join-Forces-Against-British-Claim-On-Region/Article/200903115236672
No future for the British antarctic fiasco.
Would this ship be for use in Chilean-claimed Antarctica, Argentinian-claimed Antarctica,
Apr 21st, 2011 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or in the seas internationally recognised as the British Antarctic Territories (BOT)?
I feel sure that the BAT authorities will grant ready access to the Chilean ice-breaker for bona fide research access - especially collaborative research - and for emergency activities to save life and limb.
1. This ship would be for the Chilean Navy.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 02. “internationally recognized” (sorry... 'z' not 's') ...you're stretching it.
3. When has Chile ask the UK access to anything?
4. Chile has more than enough resources to handle research and/or search & rescue, but if they needed assistance they already count on ours as we count on theirs.
P.A.N.C.
Patrulla Antártica Naval Combinada
http://panamericandefense.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/dsc_1552.jpg
Chile and Argentina already patrol the Antarctic together, literally. This is not an occasional exercise, it's routine. Chile needs nothing from you, on the contrary, they need you to back off. I think the links on post #3 prove that perfectly well.
The key word in your link is 'claim'.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some people claim the world is flat, but it does not make it so.
And just because a couple walk hand in hand down a road does not mean that they own the road.
Once more, you find problems understanding the concept of legal ownership - heaven help you if you ever have to buy or sell a house!
Then the UK has the same 'problem'.
Apr 21st, 2011 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except both Argentina and Chile are just a few hundred miles from the area we claim, you're 10,000 miles away.
Why can't you people stick to your side of the hemisphere??
'insane' is the key word in your last post.
It's as if you bought a house in Los Angeles and claimed that your back yard is in New York. You know what City Planning would tell you? 'Stay on your meds.'
@2 Uk doesn't need to share with anyone we already have a new icebreaker joinging the Fleet this year. http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/antarctic-patrol-ship/hms-endurance/new_antarctic_patrol.htm
Apr 21st, 2011 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A ship on loan, with a flight deck not a hangar… that's the best the UK can come up with?
Apr 21st, 2011 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Icebreakers need hangars with room for at least 2 helicopters, whatever you put on that flight deck will turn to ice. That ships looks more like an oil-rig support barge than an icebreaker.
If the UK were as committed to Antarctica as are both Argentina and Chile they would invest in a real icebreaker, like the ARA Almirante Irizar, which will be back in service by the end of the year after an $80 million USD overhaul. It comes with recently upgraded Sea King helicopters… http://www.aviationnews.eu/2008/10/28/navair-and-argentine-navy-team-to-deliver-six-sea-king-helicopters/
Argentina is also building a second icebreaker, in Argentina, with the assistance of Chernomorsky Shipbuilding Yard of Ukraine. http://www.aviationnews.eu/2008/10/28/navair-and-argentine-navy-team-to-deliver-six-sea-king-helicopters/
Add to that the addition of the new KC-390 cargo plane that will replace the Hercules C-130 and you've got an Antarctic operation second to none.
We have 12 bases in Antártida, 6 permanent, 6 seasonal. We've been there since 1904 and we're there to stay, indefinitely.
The UK is little more than a spectator compared to Argentina, you're not committed and you don't deserve to be there.
Guess who the UK would have to call for help if their stupid antarctic barge were to have a catastrophic accident?
That's right… the big boys... Argentina or Chile. ;-)
British Antarctic Territory was established for 20W-80W in 1908.
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Later overlapping claims were made by Chile (53W-90W) in 1940,
and by Argentina (25W-74W) in 1942.
The laws of prior ownership apply and are not subsumed in the subsequent Antarctic Treaty System of 1961 (See below)
The Antarctic Treaty System (ATS) regulates international relations on Antarctica, Antarctica is defined as all of the land and ice shelves south of 60°S latitude.
The treaty, signed by 45 countries, sets aside Antarctica as a scientific preserve, it established freedom of scientific investigation and it explicitly bans military activity on that continent.
The Antarctic Treaty Secretariat headquarters have been located in Buenos Aires, Argentina, since September 2004.
The original signatories were the 12 countries active in Antarctica during the International Geophysical Year (IGY) of 1957–58, and included the UK (Signatory 1st May, 1960), Argentina and Chile (both 23 June 1961).
“The treaty does not recognize, dispute, nor establish territorial sovereignty claims; no new claims shall be asserted while the treaty is in force” (Art. 4);
“it includes under the treaty all land and ice shelves but not the surrounding waters south of 60 degrees 00 minutes south” (Art. 6);
“all disputes shall be settled peacefully by the parties concerned or, ultimately, by the International Court of Justice” (Art. 11). [Note: This includes counter-claims to territory.]
The treaty forbids any measures of a military nature, but not the presence of military personnel.
All ownerships are recognized via the Antarctic Treaty System (Above), the Law of the Sea and the laws pertaining to International Waters.
This gives us all a solid basis for discussion and argument.
My area has always been biological research, but I appreciate that many will be focussing on off-shore oil exploitation.
Your CommentWell said Geof- Martin, read and digest reality. Also Martin, think a bit - the vessel being aquired by UK as an Icebreaker is going to a naval dockyard for modifying and refitting first!! That will natrually include a helicopter hanger - after all HMS Endurance was originally an Arctic cruise vessel before she was bought and modified - with a hanger for 2 modern heliocopters! You do rush into things and end up looking a fool all the time.
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Internationally worldwide I think you will find that the works of the British Antartic Survey are very highly regarded - you see in the Antarctic the UK operates THREE vessels(2 BAS and 1 RN and several BAS aircraft and has done for many years.Their aircraft regularily operate between the Antarctic- the Falklands and Chile - its called friendly co-operation.
The big difference is that UK operates its bases for scientific purposes - not having mothers and babies to play politics like Arg does!
(11) Islander1
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
“.....Not having mothers and babies to play politics like Arg does!”
I say:
Does it mean that you are not prepared to accept as valid eventual Argentinean arguments as:
“We are born here”........
Or
“We are 2nd, 3th, 4th, 5th generation Argentarticos”.......
Or
“We live, work, raise our children and pay our taxes here”........
Double talk anybody?
@12Think. the big difference is of course that we settled our own land(after ejecting illegal trespassers).
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You purposely took a pregnant woman to a disputed territory so that you could claim an Argentine citizen was born there & therefore the land is“yours”.
lt smacks of desperation to me.
Anyway if you're going to claim Antarctica because of that birth then you have to concede that we own the Falklands because a lot of us were born there.
Think talk with forked tongue
(13) Isolde
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have lost count of all the Ex British Territories from where British Citizens have been kicked out during the past half century…….
Malvinas will soon be another forgotten name in that looooong list of Ex British territories…………
During the past half century the only people to get their arses kicked out of anywhere in the South Atlantic were Argentinian citizens.
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0My South American, British, and other friends,
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am happy for you to take your women and have Antarctic babies,
I am happy for you to do solus research or (better) collaborative reseach,
I am happy if we use designated military equipment and personnel for logistics and research if we don't have an internationally respected ONG like the BAS,
all I ask is that disputes over territory are resolved as specified through the the Antarctic Treaty System (Above), the Law of the Sea and the laws pertaining to International Waters, in the International Court of Justice.
Initiating a resolution through warfare WILL invoke UN involvement *because of * the specificities of the Antarctic Treaty System. .
It would be unforgivable if the Great World Powers became involved via the UNSC in an Antarctic conflict simply because one or another protagonists refused to use the mechanisms for conflict resolution established for the area by the world community - and to which the UK, Argentina, and Chile are signatories.
Dissuasion and resolution would be imo in the home countries, not on the Antarctic landmass; we should strive to avoid UN resolutions like Iraq, Kosovo or Libya.
10 GeoffWard,
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The treaty” .......... “Our claims”
All you Brits are good at is claiming and dictating “Treaties” but when it comes to Antarctica you're just low level players... you're trying to reach higher than you're actually capable of.
No one cares about your fifty year old scripts Geoff... no one needs the UK researching anything in Antarctica either, it's got nothing to do with you.
All you've got is your bullshit claims and your dusty scripts... we've got the means to run a real Antarctic operation so just sit it out and shut the hell up.
Good luck with your antarctic barge.
Martin,
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0re. #10, #16, #17:
you are just unable to conduct reasoned argument.
Thank God nobody depends on your opinion for anything;
you would be too dangerous to have around as a partner/wife/husband, boss/work colleague, etc.
17 Says who?
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antarctica is in our blood. We were there well before any Spaniards.
Sitting it out, shutting up and not fighting for our rights ain't in our style as you well know or should do.
Anyway putting aside Argentina's bullshit claims and borrowed, second hand, dusty scripts.... The Union Jack........still......flies proud and high over these our beautiful, loyal and resource rich Falkland Islands. And all you can do is talk, insult, threaten, dream, insult, invent, threaten, insult and talk talk and talk again.
19,
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you an LP record? ..cause, you're scratched... are you gonna play that shit all morning?
Invent? Why cause you don't like my links?
The Brits don't like links of any kind... EXCEPT those links that put Argentina at a disadvantage, those links are ok... they're factual.
What exactly did I invent? That Almirante Irizar is a real icebreaker? That the overhaul cost $80 million USD? Newly refurbished helicopters? New additional icebreaker in the works? New cargo plane in the works? That we've been in Antarctica since 1904?
Quit reflecting on my language and tell me exactly what did I invent. And take a look at yourselves before you pass judgement on me, Brits.
WestisBest just got his post deleted on #179 for using the word “f-ck” twice…
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/04/19/falklands-war-book-reveals-israel-s-arms-and-equipment-support-for-argentina
Dirty mouths... ;-)
Don't give me that old crap. And as for Westisbest using a naughty word, well c'mon who really gives a shit.... ;-)
Apr 22nd, 2011 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Think, you're blustering again, señor.
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0@20 Martin, thought you once said that MercoPress was so British that we could nearly say what we liked, while you had posts deleted all the time? Now Westi has had a post deleted for swearing? Maybe Westi is an Argentine secret agent like Think!
Also very hypocritical of you Martin after the things you said to me in Spanish.
(22)
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 04:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I luuuuuv when you use that little wiggly snake :-)
19 Be serious,
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Antarctica is in our blood.” I missed that the first time...
Stealing is in your blood, but I'm confident Antarctica won't be the case.
In your blood? What the hell are you talking about? Antarctica is just a few hundred miles from Argentina and Chile, we LIVE closer to Antarctica than anyone else on the planet. Our EEZ over Antarctica is a continuation of our continental EEZ. Even Australia, the second closest country is three times as far away.
And what have you accomplished in all this time?
UK bases:
Halley, permanent, since 1956
Rothera, permanent, since 1975
Fossil Bluff, seasonal, since 1961
Sky Blu, seasonal, since 1995
Argentine bases:
Orcadas, permanent, since 1904
San Martín, permanent, since 1951
Esperanza, permanent, since 1952
Jubany, permanent, since 1953
Marambio, permanent, since 1969
Belgrano II, permanent, since 1979
Melchior, seasonal, since 1947
Decepción, seasonal, since 1948
Almirante Brown, seasonal, since 1951
Teniente Camara, seasonal, since 1957
Teniente Matienzo, seasonal, since 1961
Petrel, seasonal, since 1967
Primavera, seasonal, since 1977
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Antarctica#Permanent
That's 4 for the UK, 13 for Argentina
On October 2010 (winter) there were 230 residents in the six permanent bases, including 9 families and 16 children. There are post offices, a school, a civilian radio station, an airport. We don't regard Antártida as just a bunch of scientific research stations, it's part of Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina. Neither does Chile for that matter, they have just as many bases, a school, an airport and even a bank.
The UK? Just two permanent bases where they conduct “scientific research” to support its territorial claim. Never in a million years will they be as serious about Antarctica as Argentina or Chile. It's just a game for you, a treaty, more paperwork... that's all you have in your blood, bureaucracy and claims but no real presence and no commitment.
All that shows is that your lot have to try harder.
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Martin, you seem to be polar spokesman for the Continent:
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British Antarctic Survey (BAS) is a world-leading research institute.
Just the BAS produces some 250-300 peer reviewed scientific papers each year. The Scott Polar Res. Inst. another 15+, UK University publications from south polar research are also numerically significant.
Can we have some idea from our South American friends of the extent to which their polar efforts make it into the scientific literature?
This should not exclude papers on polar human birth rate statistics, as this is of some interest to human physiologists.
25,
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not that hard really, we're very close to Antarctica.
26,
I'm not a spokesman and I'm not an expert either. I don't have information on scientific papers submitted by the Argentine research stations.
I don't think Argentina regards these studies as the backbone of our claim over Antarctica, but rather a continued presence that dates back further than any other nation and an uninterrupted extension of our sovereignty on the South American continent.
I also believe that studies carried out in Antarctica have not national or politic boundaries, mainly because the science challenges exceed the capability of any one nation and a coordinated international approach maximizes both impact and cost effectiveness.
I believe that both Argentina and Chile have been in Antarctica for such a long time and have diversified its presence there to such an extent, that this presence is now far more than just purely scientific in nature. Like I said I'm neither a spokesman nor an expert, but if you were to ask a primary teacher in an Argentine base or a bank attendant in a Chilean base, I suspect their beliefs would not be much different than mine.
That is where I'm coming from and that is the reason why I react the way I do when someone tells me that the UK, (for instance) has more rights to Antarctica than either Argentina or Chile.
Good reply.
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antarctica was very nearly 'in my blood'.
Many years ago I was offered a job as Researcher at the British Antarctic Survey base on Signy Island, South Orkneys, BOT (disputed ;-) where you have your Orcardas base, researching the Antarctic Ice Fish and the natural glycol antifreeze agents in their blood.
Only after training in under-ice diving at the RN Diving School, Gosport did I think better of it and opted for uni. life instead.
BTW You forgot to list Signy and the two South Georgia stations when you listed Brit. Ant. presence - Signy is by far the most important for both ecological and climatological research.
and it is worth noting that most Argentinian - like most UK - bases and populations are not actually on the mainland, but are on the islands necklaceing W. Antarctica.
Argentinian permanent mainland presence totals just 38 researchers at San Martin and Belgrano II; there are a further 22 seasonal mainland workers at 'Matienz' and Sobral.
All in all, Signy offers the best opportunities for collaborative research - something that has been much reduced in recent years because of the conflict.
Argentinian scientific investigations in Antártida
Apr 23rd, 2011 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.prensa.argentina.ar/2011/04/10/18352-desarrollos-biotecnológicos-de-científicos-argentinos-en-la-Antártida.php
(Also Bio sidus -and this has nothing to be with Antártida, but its interest- has cloned the first horse in Argentina, google “Presentaron a Ñandubay, el primer caballo clonado de Argentina, Clarín.com”)
28 GeoffWard,
Apr 24th, 2011 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I noticed the UK has other bases near by, I was just referring to Antarctica itself. I'd like to visit Marambio base one day, it's on my list.
29,
Check your link it appears to be broken.
www.prensa.argentina.ar/2011/04/09/18352-desarrollos-biotecnologicos-de-cientificos-argentinos-en-la-antartida.php
Apr 24th, 2011 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0(if it doesnt appear google) they talk of genoma project and biorremediación. Interesting.
and I made a mistake with Ñandubay, bio sidus only put the money, Facultad de Agronomía de la UBA the clonation. very young científicos.
@27 What a pity that you forgot to mention that your first Antarctic base was given to you. By the British.
Apr 24th, 2011 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice to see that Britain can maintain a presence and an internationally-recognised research organisation 7,900 mile from our shores. But Argentina can't compete. Even though its only 3,280 miles.
Nice to see that Argentina didn't send a single expedition to the Antarctic until 1965.
Nice to see that Britain's claim to its part of the Antarctic dates back to 1908, whilst Chile didn't claim anything until 1940 and Argentina is the runner-up in 1942. In other words, you clowns missed the boat by 34 years.
Actually, in the great scheme of things, virtually the entire world got to Antarctica before Argentina. But don't worry. Being kindly, generous people, if you're good, we'll save you an ice floe.
Incidentally, the research on the Antarctic situation clearly proves that Britain reached and claimed South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands long before Argentine mothers found it necessary to teach their children the word for 'father'.
32, zzzzzzzz... same old crap
Apr 24th, 2011 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 031,
Yeah I came across that site looking for info... I'm looking for actual scientific papers from the Antártida Argentina stations but they don't seem to be readily available to the public, or else I'm not looking in the right places.
Here are some interesting links...
http://www.irizar.org/actividades1.html
http://www.irizar.org/actividades1.html
http://www.irizar.org/actividades1.html
http://www.irizar.org/actividades1.html
An interesting article
http://www.irizar.org/actividades1.html
To be continued
“that this presence is now far more than just purely scientific in nature”
Apr 24th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Antarctica cannot be inhabited by normal people because it is against the law we all signed. Only researchers are permitted to inhabit the place.
It's a bit like Space at the moment. We can send people there and we could probably if we really wanted to pop out a child up there but it's not a permanent population or a real feasible place to inhabit. Anyone being in either really, just by being there is doing research.
good articles Martin
Apr 24th, 2011 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i wanted to show these very brutons that we are making science and research or investigations (answer to 26) the investigation we make (31) had international recognition
and zethee the argentinians going there are sciencetists doctors tecnicos studing the geography the weather the biodiversity etc and the people needed to make a base function
I thought it was evident by what i said that i already knew that.
Apr 24th, 2011 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 034,
Apr 24th, 2011 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here Zethee, you'll have no trouble understanding this since it's narrated by a rather unenthusiastic Brit... enjoy ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
35,
Thanks malen,
I do need to point out that Antártida is also inhabited by the families of these scientists and Navy officers, who's children attend school at Escuela Provincial Nº38 Presidente Julio Argentino Roca, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related located at Base Esperanza.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
There is also a civilian radio station LRA 36 Radio Nacional Arcángel San Gabriel, and a post office which by its very definition is a civilian facility, “oficina del Registro Civil número 2506”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
Base Esperanza (Arg) and Villa Las Estrellas (Chile) are really more like small towns than bases or 'stations', they are administered and maintained by the Navy but they are in essence permanent civilian settlements.
Base Esperanza
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
and Villa Las Estrellas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0jOrVpLFjA&feature=related
Think, sorry I missed your earlier comments- no doublestandard emothers “implanted” deliberatley to try and reinforce a claim! But then of course if Arg feels that is a vaalid case - then how come you would deny that right to us lot born in these islands?
Apr 25th, 2011 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt about Arg having a rightfull claim to part of Antactica - so does Chile - and you both claim the same parts in some areas! As does UK also. Thats one of the very sensible reasons why those 3 nations along with a few others were the original founders of the Antarctic Treaty - to keep silly national politic yahooing out of it for the benefit of mankind as a whole. And my money says that is how it will stay for a long time to come.
Martin F - God what a load of verbal diarohea you continually pour out! resembles the rear end of a cow out in spring on its first lush fresh green grass! BAS owns 2 vessels which are competent icestrengthened/icebreakers for its requirements. What is more the British do all their base staffing and logistics with -civilians- as requested by the Ant Treaty! Unlike some, UK keeps to the rules , wonder who twists them? The RN- and the vessel is classed as an Auxillary(not a warship) specialise in survey work etc and a “prescence” as well - like yours and Chiles, no difference in that part. And do tell me WHOSE Charts are the ones the world tends to use for Antarctica? - Give You a clue - they are usually available in Stanley and London.
38,
Apr 25th, 2011 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not familiar with the rear end of a cow in spring, you're obviously an expert.
“BAS owns 2 vessels which are competent icestrengthened/icebreakers for its requirements.” If they meet the requirements of the UK in Antarctica I suspect I won't be very impressed.
The Almirante Irizar (Arg) is not classified as an 'auxiliary' vessel, it is a dedicated logistical support icebreaker.
“And do tell me WHOSE Charts are the ones the world tends to use for Antarctica?”
Argentine charts? Chilean charts? Why would anyone know the way better than us?
If you want to see 'verbal diarrhea' look no further than Zethee's remarks:
“Antarctica cannot be inhabited by normal people because it is against the law we all signed. Only researchers are permitted to inhabit the place.”
And yet researchers from both Argentina and Chile, together with their families, call Antarctica home as permanent place of residence.
“It's a bit like Space at the moment.”
“it's not a permanent population or a real feasible place to inhabit”
Space? Really?
Not feasible for the UK maybe, but perfectly feasible for Argentina and Chile.
”A glance at the globe indicates the affinity that Argentina (and Chile) must feel to the Antarctic Peninsula, a mountain ridge reaching north from the mass of Antarctica like a crooked finger pointing to the tip of South America. Geologists say it continues in a submarine ridge right up to the base of the Andes. From a geopolitical standpoint Argentina found it only natural to extend its territory to these southernmost Andes, and to these South American settlers, life at an Antarctic station might not be much different from a posting in the high altiplano – colder, but also more oxygen.” http://halintours.tripod.com/antarcticatrip/id5.html
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Antarctica is our backyard, Antarctica is home.
27 The modern World is a mere global village. Distance is irrelevant.
Apr 25th, 2011 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 039 Antarctica belongs to us and that “finger” is a warning to Argentina and its saying “Keep Off” or something like that.
39 Martin - the great majority of Antarctic Cruise vessels use British Admiralty Charts- or their own national ones which are usually based on Admiralty Charts.
Apr 25th, 2011 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Humans can exist naturally in the high Altiplano and southern Andes and TDFuego - they cannot in Antarctica- simple as that. That is why your “families” living down there are not and never can be a natural population.
If Antarctica is “home” how come most of you live in BA province and even warmer areas and your Govt has to pay civil service staff bonuses to even get them to go and work in say Santa Cruz Province?
The BAS vessels are civilian- and meet the job required.(they also do the logistics work for a couple of other countries bases) I used the term “auxillary” for the RN vessels as it is against treaty aims and objectives to have actual “warships” there. That is what Endurance was and Protector will be.
40,
Apr 25th, 2011 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course you profess carelessness about distance, you always do, you're usually several thousands of miles from anything you claim.
“Keep Off or something like that”.........?
When you figure out what you're trying to say you let me know... ok?
41,
Argentina is home Islander1, Antártida is part of it. Our families live there and nothing you can say will change that.
We don't have warships in Antártida, Alt Irizar is not armed.
Of course you profess carelessness about distance, you always do, you're usually several thousands of miles from anything you claim.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isla Martín García is an Argentine island off the Río de la Plata coast of Uruguay. The enclave island is within the boundaries of Uruguayan waters;
42
Apr 26th, 2011 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0No carelessness involved. The World is a very small place now thanks to modern means of travel. Nobody to blame its just a fact.
Thought it was obvious. Why not figure it out for yourself whilst your in an imaginative and symbolic mood.
“Not feasible for the UK maybe, but perfectly feasible for Argentina and Chile. ”
Apr 26th, 2011 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just a case of you being an idiot really. It's not feasible for anyone to live out there as a normal population with a there own economy and self reliance with food, electricity ect. Therefore all bases down there must be funded and are therefore scientific projects rather than a population living in the area.
The place should stay a scientific haven, free for everyone to use. If the antarctic treaties do fail the whole world will want a peice and it will just escalate into a war and your nation will end up with nothing.
The whole world DOES want a piece of it.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at this list... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_stations_of_Antarctica
Bulgaria? Pakistan? It's the latest freak show out there, we need cooperation but not that much.
And your professed carelessness about distance has nothing to do with the size of the Earth, it's simply a way of justifying your claims. You don't see Argentina claiming Wales by saying, well... we thought the World was small!!! Might as well claim whatever the hell we want!!
And since you're so fund of the Antarctic treaty, let me remind you that the last nation intent on breaking it was the UK.
Britain to claim more than 1m sq km of Antarctica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_stations_of_Antarctica
Green groups condemn UK's claim in Antarctica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_stations_of_Antarctica
Argentina and Chile reacted to this claim... we did not initiate it. So take a good look at yourselves and check your facts before you start passing judgment on us.
“let me remind you that the last nation intent on breaking it was the UK.”
Apr 26th, 2011 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read the story again, then read the Antarctic treaty. You'll soon realise that you are wrong.
How so? Explain.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Antarctic treaty covers the continent, ice shelves and most land below a certan latitude.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Bay of Biscay, around Ascension, off the British Antarctic Territory, around the Falkland Islands and South Georgia and in the Hatton/Rockall basin, west of Scotland is where the UK is submitting it's claim. Bay of Biscay is a joint claim. Has nothing to do with the continent itself.
Argentina has also done the same thing, you know.
The Bay of what the hell??? That's Europe
Apr 26th, 2011 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“around Ascension, off the British Antarctic Territory”
Ascension Island is off the coast of Africa, barely below the Equator.
“Argentina and Chile have joined together and rejected British claims over Antarctic territory and the seabed.”
Rejected, as in NO you may not claim anything in Antarctica.
47 Zethee
“Read the story again, then read the Antarctic treaty. You'll soon realise that you are wrong.”
“It has been two years since Britain announced plans to claim sovereignty over a slice of the Antarctic seabed - an area measuring more than 385,000 square miles.”
Where in the Antarctic treaty does it say that new sovereignty claims over Antarctica may be submitted?
And why… if the UK's claim is so “solid”, is the UK submitting a new claim?
Argentina's claim is not new, neither is Chile's.
You are a drunken imbecile who never knows what he's talking about.
Sigh. The claim for an area around British Antarctica is one of a number being prepared by the Foreign Office. Including the ones i mentioned.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Where in the Antarctic treaty does it say that new sovereignty claims over Antarctica may be submitted?”
Do yourself a favor and go read the Antarctic treaty.
You've claimed that the UK has or is trying to break the Antarctic Treaty. In this you are WRONG. It specifically states that no new claims shall be asserted on the continent and the UK is not claiming anything new on the continent.
“Antarctica is defined as all of the land and ice shelves south of 60°S latitude”
The Antarctic treaty is about the continent, not the oceans around it.
Whatever clown... the 385,000 sq miles of Antarctica claimed by the UK include the peninsula and coastal shelf along it. I am NOT wrong, you are, as usual.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For Argentines and Chileans ONLY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUxA2hFdxHM
You said we're breaking or trying to break the the Antarctic treaty, we aren't. Therefore what you said is wrong.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read the treaty yet?
:-)
The 385,000 sq miles of Antarctica claimed by the UK include the peninsula, the peninsula is PART OF ANTARCTICA AND IS ABOVE THE WATER.
Apr 26th, 2011 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you drunk right now?
It's not you mellon. You can't claim land mineral rights under the convention of the sea you muppet. LOL.
Apr 27th, 2011 - 06:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is claiming mineral rights on the antartic sea bed under the UN convention of the sea, you can claim mineral rights out to a maximum of 350 nautical miles from the coast. The UK put this submission in because after a certan date in 2009 we would have all lost the right to submit an application.
Oh, and you're wrong!
Just a case of you being an idiot really. It's not feasible for anyone to live out there as a normal population with a there own economy and self reliance with food, electricity ect. Therefore all bases down there must be funded and are therefore scientific projects rather than a population living in the area.
Apr 27th, 2011 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really zethee? Why the uk cares about Antartica then?
The do have a british Antartic territory,no?
Why does yours?
Apr 27th, 2011 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because we live in the Area!!Did you see the map latelly?
Apr 27th, 2011 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why uk does not claim,the p[art that NOBODY claim? Is about 3 time larger....
Typical nonsense from an extracontinental country,bankrupt as it is uk....
You live closer to brazil. You should own that too?
Apr 27th, 2011 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really.zethee? I think you are a liar!
Apr 27th, 2011 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Usuhaia is only 2000 to Antartica,and uk,is it closer? 17000 km?
Really pathetic zethee!
Or no people in San pedro has more rigth than 40 million living in the area?
Do me a favor,tell you guys in london,to claim Australian Antartica,or NZ antartica..
Really non sense........
....What?
Apr 27th, 2011 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tte E. @ 60
Apr 27th, 2011 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great Britain has already transfered legal ownership of Australian and New Zealandic Antarctica from itself to Australia and New Zealand. Great altruism at the time of self-determination,
. . . . accompanied by a desire of self-determining countries to remain with the great Common-wealth of nations.
uk can show some bigger altruism,then.Transfer the BAS to Argentina,that would be nice,do not think so,geof?
Apr 27th, 2011 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Althougth not in the topic,but,Geoff,never consider that my name is Estevez?And that also I can be a liutenant(in the boys-scouts?)
@63 show us the way
Apr 27th, 2011 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Campesinos are demanding recognition of their rights and calling for an end to logging and violence after a family was violently evicted from their land, two weeks ago, in the Argentine Province of Juyjuy.
http://intercontinentalcry.org/argentina-campesino-land-taken-by-force/
Tte E,
Apr 27th, 2011 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0having transfered the larger part of out Antarctica holding to other countries, I am happy to stick with what we currently own, and to exploit the (much reduced) associated EEZ accordingly.
Re. your 'name': it never crossed my mind that you might be a boy scout or that you might be a Tte.
PS. AntarCtica is spelt with an additional C;
if you think of the Arctics having two seas - 'Cs', get it? - you will never spell it wrong again!
The endless colored commentary from the Brits... ;-) not a whole lot of value or reason though.
Apr 28th, 2011 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 059 Zethee
“You live closer to brazil. You should own that too?”
Distance from the Antarctic peninsula to Ushuaia: 700 miles
Distance from the Antarctic peninsula to Plymouth, UK: 8370 miles
http://www.distancefromto.net/
What does Brazil have to do with it?
1. Brazil's sovereignty is not disputed, Brazil does not claim Antártida either.
2. It's not just a matter of distance but a matter of historical presence and commitment.
3. The ONLY country other than Argentina with legitimate rights over Antártida is Chile, because of the same reasons described above.
The UK does not have any rights over Antarctica, none that could possibly supersede those of Argentina or Chile. It would be just as absurd and weak as Argentina claiming a slice of the north pole, we'd have no business being there and neither would the UK in Antártida.
Play the 'antarctic explorer' if you wish, share your findings with the world… but do yourselves a favor, stop making ludicrous claims.
Really… it's stupid.
And Zethee... put the bottle away and get some help.
“What does Brazil have to do with it?”
Apr 28th, 2011 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing;
“It's not just a matter of distance”
Sums up what i was saying.
But feel free to ignore the part where you blamed us for breaking the antarctic treaty then claimed we were claiming mineral rights over the peninsula and was of course totally wrong.
@67 Zethee, maybe Martino is stoned.
Apr 28th, 2011 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@66 Martin_Fierro, you've been told before, silly Martino, distance is irrelevant. We were exploring in Antarctica while your country hadn't expanded yet into Patagonia. Matter of fact, we were in Patagonia & TDF before you were. l think you might need some help.
You might be right there lsolde, Martins short term memory hasn't been so good lately, he's forgetting all sorts!
Apr 28th, 2011 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0were exploring in Antarctica while your country hadn't expanded yet into Patagonia. Matter of fact, we were in Patagonia & TDF before you were. l think you might need some help.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0really isolde: You are in time wrap.In 1900 uk was a powr.Relative to now,uk is very little.We are talking about now and the future.And the future looks very bleak to uk....
So long loosers...
They're all in a time warp, they think the UK is still capable of stealing land from the world.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let them rant... makes no difference.
Martin. Im curious. You told me i have no dignity when i was wrong(i wasn't) and also told us how you was such a paragon of truth you would also admit when you was wrong.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you going to keep ignoring the fact that you was wrong about us breaking the antarctic treaty or are you going to admit you were wrong?
They're all in a time warp, they think the UK is still capable of stealing land from the world.
Apr 29th, 2011 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let them rant... makes no difference
No importa Martin.Nosotros seguimos desarrollando Argentina.De apoco,vamos a lograr nuestro objetivos..
72,
Apr 30th, 2011 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK attempted to make a new claim on the basis of sovereignty, a claim 350 miles out FROM the Antarctic peninsula.
Explain to me, if you can...
How would the UK make such a claim WITHOUT the Antarctica peninsula?
From which point would this 350 mile EEZ come from?
Please, educate the savages.
73,
I have no doubt. ;-)
They have no reason.They are liars.An indoctrinated population,that think good of thenmselves when killing people for the empire.....
Apr 30th, 2011 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 074 Martin_Fierro:
Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0You was pretty clear with what you said. You stated that we claimed the Antarctica peninsula.
Did we?
You stated that we broke the Antarctic treaty
Did we?
Yes, and I told you why, several times.
Apr 30th, 2011 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll ask you again... I'm not gonna keep asking, you've had plenty of chances to prove me wrong.
From which point would the 350 mile EEZ extension originate from, if not from the Antarctic peninsula?
If the UK is attempting to introduce a new sovereignty claim, that originates from the Antarctic peninsula, how is that not breaking the Antarctic Treaty when it clearly states that no new claims can be made?
You know what your problem is Zethee? You had no idea the extension originated from the Antarctic peninsula, in fact you understood nothing about the claim or else you would've kept your mouth shut.
HELP NEEDED
Apr 30th, 2011 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Martin,
I know nothing about this 'new' UK claim.
Can you give me some links?
The reason I am a bit discombobulated is the '350mile EEZ' quoted in a number of postings.
It has always been my understanding since the early 1980s, that the EEZ legislation was for 200 miles - which *incorporated* the inner zones of exclusivity.
Wikis definition and explanation is definitely wrong at the moment, but it seems to imply that the control of submarine geological deposits extends to 350 miles -
Where did this come from ! ?
I know of no legislation that extends *ownership* beyond 200, though the Russians are pushing for extensions based on contiguous continental shelf arguments in the Arctic, and the Canadians have to, of couse, 'follow the flow'.
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