MercoPress, en Español

Montevideo, May 25th 2019 - 17:12 UTC

How do Falklands and Argentina youngsters learn about history of their countries

Thursday, April 28th 2011 - 18:09 UTC
Full article 83 comments

A British university research project is being conducted which will examine how youth from the Falkland Islands (or the Islas Malvinas as defined in Argentina) and Argentina learn about the history of their territories and nation-state. The study will also reflect on the perspectives of youth in the region regarding the ongoing tensions between the UK and Argentina. Read full article

Comments

Disclaimer & comment rules
  • Be serious

    Who's paying for this nonsense?

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    It's a few skype interviews. Not exactly expensive lol.

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    It is here!

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin_Fierro

    Mercopress... are you begging for attention now?

    Pathetic... I won't even read this shit..

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • saphira

    @4 So why comment?

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    4 Martin_Fierro

    What the hell's the matter with you? This is just standard academic work and sounds quite interesting actually.
    I don't mind taking part.

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    Pathetic... I won't even read this shit

    Pity, half way down Dr. Benwell states the Falklands should belong to Argentina

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rhaurie-Craughwell

    4 so why read it moron...ahem...martin :)

    On another note, this just shows how defunct the Argentine “geographical” argument for possession is, communications between the islands and the UK are seamless, 8,000km is negligible in an age of light speed communications, the last 10 years have seen the islands grow ever closer to the UK, and thanks to hate filled legislation and rhetoric from Argentina....ever further from that country.

    Monty please do understand Martin....hes a poor lost American and wannabe Argentine, in his over enthusiasm to pretend to be an Argentine he has adopted the worst aspects sadly :)

    Hes obviously dreadfully upset that the Falklands are being referred to as a country and separate nationality, because this shows how morally outrageous and in contempt of civilization his arguments on that subject are XD

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ptolemy

    I'd be interested in know what the different versions of the history (of the Falklands and Argentina,) are being taught in the schools.

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • saphira

    It's not taught in British Schools

    Apr 28th, 2011 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Ahh ... a man with a book to sell .......... sorry, ANOTHER man with a book to sell.

    He'll be hoping that everyone he interviews will buy one to see if they get a mention ...

    Unusually, I have some sympathy with Martian's view :-/

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ptolemy

    #10
    Sure they do. It's called history,..not a political version of history stamped by a recent change to a constitution.

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Billy Hayes

    Mr.Benwell is seing what is obvious but some people is still blind.

    Kelpers & argentines are linked, perpetualy linked.

    We only need to find a way to live in peace and prosperity. We don´t need the third factor.

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 02:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    What you need and what you get are often very different Billious .... the Britiah are not going to leave the South Atlantic ..... get used to it !

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Rotted “the Britiah are not going to leave the South Atlantic”
    I don't know about the“Britiah” but the British will leave sooner or later.

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Must wear my glasses when I type ... still, I can assure you that the British ... and even the Britiah .... will be in the South Atlantic long after Argentina has dwindled into even more insignificance than she currently is !

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 06:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Searinox

    RedHoyt go to see the “royal” wedding, thats the way your government blind all of you, if i were you i would leave the pride, because your government is doing everything wrong, argentina was in default in 2001 and now we have more possibilities to pay our debt that the uk their own, and your monarchy fired a lot of people from their jobs saying they need to reduce their fiscal deficit but at the same time they are spending millions in missiles, the debt of your monarchy is like 380% from your PIB, and they are still spending a lot of money to nothing, without saying that the uk government is losing good reputation between the rest of europeans countries because your protectionism and the fact that your monarchy is violating international laws, oh but let the brits see the royal wedding so they get more stupid that they already are xD

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    ”your monarchy fired a lot of people from their jobs saying they need to reduce their fiscal deficit but at the same time they are spending millions in >missiles

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zethe

    Err, it messed up my message.

    ”spending millions in >missiles

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    I give up. It wont post my whole message.

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    17 Searinox (#)

    Financial Advice from a argie LOL

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Searinox

    Stick up your junta, oh sure maybe you could teach me how to have an economy like the uk, but to learn that you should to teach me to invade countries, kill and steal, well the uk its an expert in all of that right?
    where do you think your country get their money, from good monetary politics?? jaja its that how you call all that your monarchy did and do even now?? look now, the countries from europe saw us in 2001 and say that we didnt know how to have a good country, and look the same countries that critized us now they are having the same luck, and i dont know if you know that if one country in europe fall is going to be like dominoes.

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    to invade countries, kill and steal, well the uk its an expert in all of that right?
    where do you think your country get their money, from good monetary politics

    You sure talk bollocks Searinox

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stm

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6215847.stm

    The argies dont pay their debts, they are dead beats

    Apr 29th, 2011 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Financial advice from an Argie - - “ ...now we have more possibilities to pay our debt ...”

    But you haven't, have you? You've ripped off your bond holders and struggled to get an agreement with the Paris club. As a result Argentina's ability to borrow on the international markets remains curtailed.

    Full of cr*p SiEquinox ...... as usual!

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    I read Dr. Benwell's recent paper:

    http://www.envplan.com/epd/editorials/d2804cm.pdf

    It seems well researched & offers an objective balanced & broadly neutral review

    I note in their references, Carlos Escudé's essay on Territorial Nationalism is cited:

    http://www.envplan.com/epd/editorials/d2804cm.pdf

    It does seem this issue of the Malvinas is very much intertwined with the issues of state education, political culture and foreign policy.

    I shall be interested to read his research on the British education system in this regard; it no doubt will have its own flaws, although people have commentated that generally within the UK primary & secondary education system the history & geography or politics of the Falkland Islands have not been part of the UK curriculum; so their teaching if any, will probably be quite variable & short, because these topics are not part of the curriculum. From what I understand the reason for this has been that history within 25 years is considered “current affairs”

    Recently I presume the Falklands Conflict itself (+ background history to it) should begin to appear on UK Modern British History syllabi?

    Certainly it appears from Escudé's research that indoctrination from an early age (pre-secondary) has been a method employed in Argentina to achieve social conditioning on the issue of the Malvinas which was designed specifically to strongly reinforce a general feeling of consensus that:

    'Las Malvinas son Argentinas' (The Falkland Islands are Argentine)
    'Mi Corazón esta en las Malvinas' (My Heart is in the Malvinas)

    & requires no further research or examination, because it has been moulded into a national cause. To question these slogan's propositions is unusual & is most usually met with fierce condemnation. Certainly Escudé's thesis on Argentine territorial nationalism is rejected by many Argentines

    I think both nations should strive for a neutral teaching of all parties histories, with all historical sources of evidence

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    neutral humm but with libertad de cátedra in Argentina
    As far as it appears in the web, the press chief of British Embassy that travels and deffends british possition in Malvinas and makes this public, is a professor of the state and public university of BA (an employee of argentinian state) in ciclo básico of “Sociedad y Estado”. This is good dont you think?? Free cathedra, university open to all kind of ideas and believes.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    We don't brainwash our children Domingo .... the history of the islands is not mentioned in the curriculum.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    Yes, it is to the credit of democratic Argentina and Argentine democrats.
    A university academic chair's freedom is an important freedom. Freedom of thinking and freedom of expression

    Teaching free from political interference or free from political indoctrination is equally important, so if the Falkland Islands history becomes part of British secondary education it must be neutral, fair, reference all important historical sources of evidence and fairly present the views of all parties (Argentina, people of the Islands, Britain and the International Community). As should be the political aim to resolve the dispute fairly and peacefully.

    Obviously, such an approach should be reciprocal by the FIG educational authorities and the Argentine. That is a cooperative agreement worth agreeing

    Then and only then is it education, not indoctrination by any political side. Pedagogical practice may well be to simplify the matters to make them easy to teach and understand, but any state education should achieve these standards of impartiality and fairness

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    education for me doesnt have the need to be neutral, but to give as all the views, all the different points, all the different interests, no matter were they come from so as anyone can take his or her own conclusion.
    I agree with the freedom of thinking and of expression of professors and pupils, meanwhile they no invalid human rights. I celebrate we can have professors with different points of views, and it would be amazing to be in that class and a pupil asks him sth of Malvinas and what a good debate there can be in a public university.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    @29: Yes indeed.

    Nationalism causes a great deal of international disputes. Supra-nationalism can cause even worse, although it tries to make regional nationalists get along better!

    People all over the world are united across nationalistic boundaries by common interests and shared values

    The green movement for sustainable development and sustainability of the planet is one such common interest

    Socialism and its desire have an equitable and fair distribution of wealth and care for all in society is another common interest and value

    This seems equally balanced by the need to motivate people to work, for which a Capitalist realpolitik of meritocracy seems a favoured shared view where 'the harder one works, the more one deserves to get' seems to win out over the socialist ideal of 'from each according to his ability, to each according to their needs'

    Hmm. Football stars seem to be one of the many exceptions to my ad hoc rules!

    As I often say. I am an optimist. My hope is the particular issue of the Malvinas/Falklands shall one day be resolved by all sides through a spirit of friendship and cooperation to satisfaction of all parties

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    You also are nationalist, just watch your monarchy and all that is arround that makes you feel and identify with been british, for example.
    We also have our nationalism feeling. Perhaps in different ways.
    I find it difficult to agree but some day living so near there can be built a better relationship.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    We are all nationalists to some degree and that can be a positive influence on peoples lives too

    I think in terms of education, one of the lessons of the Malvinas/Falklands dispute is that nationalism when it leads to war between peoples is a bad thing

    So it is good that all sides resolve to do through respecting international law, human rights and the United Nations Charter.

    It is not an easy task, but it can be done. I believe in the idiom: “ Where there is a will, there is a way” is also a truism

    For me the first step to a common will is friendship and cooperation

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    I shall be interested to read his research on the British education system in this regard; it no doubt will have its own flaws, although people have commentated that generally within the UK primary & secondary education system the history & geography or politics of the Falkland Islands have not been part of the UK curriculum; so their teaching if any, will probably be quite variable & short, because these topics are not part of the curriculum. From what I understand the reason for this has been that history within 25 years is considered “current affairs”

    From my own memory. I was told there was a war, and we won. I was not was not told why there was a war or the history of the islands. As a country we have a rich history. Most of it(from what i remember) bas based on world war two, romans and i was very into egypt's history. And a lot of medieval history.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    32 Agree with you in all!!!!!! International organisations are the ones to occupy of this disputes. And yes all countries have their nationalism, wich is necessary and we dont have more, bad understood nationalism of a non democratic government could have made us commit saddly mistakes we dont want to repeat, and yes we should try to cooperate but what difficult is that!!!!! for you and us with such opposite possitions.
    33 we study of Malvinas and make debates, you can be representing argentinian arguments or english ones, you have to investigate and make expositions, etc.

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    It is good for people to find they agree on something in common. Perhaps governments shall find a way to agree one day

    I do not think the people of Argentina, Britain or the Islands are to blame or responsible for today's situation which was created long ago by people who are long since dead

    I think the people of the current generations must begin to forgive one another today for the the acts and mistakes of past generations

    Then and only then they will find a way to cooperate in friendship and mutual respect towards a common goal of resolution

    I think sincere and sustained conscious effort to reconcile hostile and ill-feelings between sides to restore mutual respect and friendship shall go a long way to inspire the discovery of a satisfactory resolution workable to all sides

    Today common interests and shared values between the UK and AR are marred by bad feeling over the Malvinas/Falklands issue

    The peoples of the UK and Argentina need to forgive one another so they can become friends on all matters again

    It is a difficult choice, but one that all should make, as a successful result would be worth it

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Searinox

    First we recover the islands by diplomacy, then we can talk about friendship, but before i dont think so, look the uk say that argentina is imperialist because we try to recover malvinas, LOL they call us imperialists, and to old comments i think they think they almost dont have any debt, if they think that LOL OMG what do they learn in school

    Apr 30th, 2011 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    It doesn't look like he's researching what the UK youth think or get taught about this. I think he's finding out how Falkland Islanders and Argentines arrive at their views of national identity and history. And that is quite interesting because things are clearly different in each country, but we seem to end up at very similar places.

    35 Domingo
    I appreciate and respect your point of view. However, it is the actions of the current generation of Argentines that is going to be very hard to forgive, even if they stopped being beastly now.

    36 Searinox
    You won't recover the islands by diplomacy. Britain won't do anything unless we agree.

    May 01st, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    “The peoples of the UK and Argentina need to forgive one another so they can become friends on all matters again”

    Very nice Domingo, all lovey dovey.....but....what the fuck do Argentina have to forgive us (the Falkland Islanders) for? what have we done to them eh?

    Your theoretical, academic diplospeak can get a bit tiresome when it's our future you're so blithely pontificating about.

    May 01st, 2011 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    @ 36 From the time you know that 90 % of everything we've been told is a lie, are you sure that “Las Malvinas son Argentinas” isn't a lie? What do they lean in school???? What do WE learn in school! I didn't know for example that Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, the father of school in Argentina, was actually a genocide, a bloody bastard, an orgy lover, but teachers didn't told me that, Néstor and Cristina did it. In school I learned that Juan Bautista Alberdi was a wise man, but Néstor and Cristina taught me that Alberdi was a racist and an enemy of the native people because he wanted all nordic people in Argentina, thank you Cristina and Néstor for teaching me the truth. So I ask to myself how many more lies we've learned in schools? Kirchners are destryoing our history and replacing it with a new one. How can we be sure that we are not wrong? Because I've been taught that the islands belong to Argentina, but what do I know? I only know what I've been told by teachers and politicians and Felipe Pigna. Or you simply don't care to know the truth Searinox? It feels not nice to know that I've spent all these years studying and repeating lie after lie. So How can we be sure about something like that? What if it's a lie like 90% of all that we learned in Argentinian schools?

    May 01st, 2011 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Billy Hayes

    Westis, argentines don´t have to forgive anything from kelpers.

    But britain must say sorry for bring you kelpers to south atlantic.

    UK, say sorry and leave south atlantic.

    Kelpers stay and live in your free country. I support selfdetermination. At that moment friendship, peace and prosperity will arrive as a natural consequence.

    May 01st, 2011 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (38) WestisBest

    You say about poster No.(35) / Domingo........
    “Your theoretical, academic diplospeak can get a bit tiresome when it's our future you're so blithely pontificating about.”

    I say:
    Hear, hear......................

    May 01st, 2011 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    “ ... I support selfdetermination ....”

    Glad to hear it Billious, because the islander's are exercising it already ! And so far they have chosen to remain British. Nice to know that you support them.

    Nothing Argentina can do !

    May 01st, 2011 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    >Very nice Domingo, all lovey dovey.....but....what the fuck do >Argentina have to forgive us (the Falkland Islanders) for? what have >we done to them eh?

    I agree the Falklanders have done nothing actively against the Argentines

    However Argentines do accuse the Falklanders of being willing pawns in the UK interests simply because of their existence as Falklanders & because Falklanders do not chose to be Argentine preferring their British ties

    Argentines argue that Falklanders should waive their ocurrent day human rights to chose their political status because if history had been different the current day Falklanders would not be Falklanders with British ties

    The official Argentine argument is that the real individuals human rights of Falklanders should be waived because it is contended that a different history to the actual history should have happened and that UN decision-making should be based on a plausible alternative but fictional history

    However, The Falklanders do not agree to Argentine wishes & reject this view. Falklanders insist on their rights according to UN Charter & UN resolutions

    The Argentines should forgive the Falklanders for their preferences & their choice to remain on the Falklands. Argentines do not have to agree with these choices, but they should not be angered by the Falklanders choices. I think there is anger and hostility that is an obstacle against better relations

    >Your theoretical, academic diplospeak can get a bit tiresome when it's >our future you're so blithely pontificating about

    Sorry

    The future of UK & AR relations are also involved too

    I just worry that hard-line attitudes on all sides will worsen relations & if our politicians & diplomats are not careful could escalate out of control

    For progress all sides need to step away from hard-liner policies & actively chose to consider matters they can cooperate on, that's all

    We can chose the status quo or seek change for the better

    Hawks into doves

    Worth a try maybe?

    May 01st, 2011 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    “ ... because if history had been different ....” ????

    But it wasn't, was it? Which makes that a strange argument!

    And as for, “ ... Argentines do accuse the Falklanders of being willing pawns in the UK interests ... ”.

    Well what do they expect? The Falkland Islands are a BOT, which the islanders so wish to be, therefore it rather stands to reason that the islanders will be willing participants in the UK interests.

    Strange arguments, Domingo ... strange!

    May 01st, 2011 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Strange arguments, Domingo ... strange !!!

    May 01st, 2011 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Domingo

    @44: Agreed

    For Argentines the desire and request is to put right a perceived historical wrong and the Argentines have proposed their solution to do this

    For the British and Falklanders the real history is fair and the Argentines have got it wrong

    The UN is set up to deal with the here and now, not retrospective issues before its founding

    So perhaps the UN was wise to invite parties to resolve the issues amongst themselves. The question is how to do it?

    I say seek common ground and improve mutual respect and friendship, then new possibilities might become apparent. I say take advantage of avice from international bodies like the ICJ to separate fact from fiction, evidence from hearsay

    Détente, rapprochement and engagement instead of Cold War

    Perhaps no-one is ready yet? But maybe, just maybe they are...

    May 01st, 2011 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    .....not

    May 01st, 2011 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • WestisBest

    @Domingo
    Thanks for clarifying that Domingo, I apologise for being brusque in my reply to you.

    @think
    So you don't like diplospeak eh? well you can piss off then you Argie dickweed.

    May 01st, 2011 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • I

    we never forget, we will be back but this time we will ship the illegal aliens back to their home land even if british deside to sink it half way to UK, we agree the pest occupying Islas Malvinas Argentina is british.

    May 01st, 2011 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    Still confused I(diot) - “ .. Islas Malvinas Argentina ...” No such place, I've checked.

    May 01st, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    A GREAT discussion.

    I was particularly impressed - not by Domingo, who I know and expect to lake the lead in considered debate - but Xbox, at #39.

    He sums up the dilemmas in received wisdom and teaching.

    This Dr Benwell is going to give us, not just a social disposition, but the benchmark of historical circumstance balanced, weighed, used, warped, propagandised, incorporated into common understandings, passed through the different generations and nationalities as different histories, and finally, used as justifications for activities and actions which may be good, bad, or neutral.
    Such is the nature of good academic social research.

    Thanks, Xbox, for your perceptive insight.

    May 01st, 2011 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Chuckle chuckle.......................

    Go ahead and base your “good academic socialresearch” on the “percevtive insight” of xbarilox.

    Chuckle chuckle.......................

    May 01st, 2011 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gotey

    I AM WITH Domingo ALL THE WAY. I SUPPORT EVERYTHING HE HAS SAID IN THESE POSTS.
    GOOD REASONING! Well said.

    The first rational step here is for Argentina to take the case to the ICJ.
    Then, all 3 parties must try to WORK TOGETHER to develop all possible ties. Trade, Tourism, Fishing, etc, There is so much to do.
    Evryone is wasting time, the UK, the Kelpers, and the Argentines.

    The EU was possible because they left the past behind and started from scratch while looking toward the future possibilities.
    That things are going wrong in their economy is another very different topic/matter.

    Political bonding with common policies while respecting local national cultures is the right answer not only to Europe but to all the world community.
    Ways must be found to encourage the elimination of all sovereingty issues round the world, so that countries can start dealing with the main issues: how to create wealth for the good and benefit of all inhabitants in each geographical zone so that the individual liberties can realized evrywhere while respecting and caring for the earth biosphere, the bubble within which we all humans live in.
    Let us start looking into the future.
    Read a little about Erich Fromm´s ideas and Carl Sagan´s views, both sadly dead now, but great humanistic visionaries.

    May 01st, 2011 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Think,

    Benwell's good academic social research will not be based on anything you, I , or Xbox say, it will be accummulated from the perceptions and statements of many hundreds, or thousands, of your *young* 'countymen' and those of the Islands.

    Xbox warns against political indoctrination in schools, warping history in the curriculum, and xenophobic jingoism in Assembly becoming the norm in the formal education of our young children.

    In my lifetime I remember young children informing on their parents because they were told it was their duty by their teachers. Their parents disappeared and were tortured and killed.
    You remember the same.

    Our young children is not the place to play our political games.

    Geoff.

    May 01st, 2011 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (54) GeoffWard

    1) Xbarilox is not “warning” against anything….. He is one of the sickest embodiments of falsehood, xenophobia, jingoism and idiocy we have at MercoPress.

    2) Don’t give me now that “softy” approach about “Our Children”
    I disliked your comments from the beginning because you, a smug ethnocentric Brit, under your commercialistic cover, openly promote the toppling of our democratically elected governments in South America which inexorably leads to the disappearance, killing and torture of our people…….

    May 01st, 2011 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    #55
    Perhaps the fact that *he* said these things give them more resonance.
    I have never had any reason to engage with him and find him somewhat less deplorable that some of our more 'erudite' brethren that espouse attitudes repugnant to me.

    You really should revisit the comments of mine that you find so distasteful. You will find them carefully worded and only forcefully forthright when talking about the excesses of terrorists, dictators, etc.

    My prefered position is the defense of democracy as the underpinning of governance - where I find democracy; and critical support of the next best option where true democracy is absent.

    I know you can readily access my actual words, and I am quite happy that you should post them so we, and others, can reflect on their substance.

    I have been involved in education at all levels for most of my life, so when I talk about the unacceptibility of the warping of young minds I know it and fight against it when I see it..

    Pol Pot and the Central African childrens' brigades knew how to indoctrinate and dehumanise, and schools that indoctrinate for 'adult' reasons are part of the same pattern. It is not just the (Muslim) madrassas where young minds are subject to such behaviour. Anywhere where there is a politicised teacher training sector subjects the children to risk.

    Shame on you that you reject my position.

    May 01st, 2011 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (56) GeoffWard

    Your humbleness is breathtaking!

    YOU decide what Democracy is and YOU support the next best option where true Democracy is absent.

    What do we need Democracy when we have Geoffracy?

    May 01st, 2011 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    ExBrain does appear to be a changed man !?

    May 02nd, 2011 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Well, a lot of talk & noble ideas, but(there has to be a “but”). These are our lslands, NOT Argentina's We do not have to justify our ownership or existence. What we do or what we say is no business of Argentina's.
    @57 Think, maybe Geoff doesn't decide about democracy, but then, neither do you. Especially when it comes to our democracy.
    @48Westy, don't be so subtle, tell Think what you really think of him! lug(low uncontrollable giggles).

    May 02nd, 2011 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Think,
    re. #54-57:

    There is no place for humility in defending against the abuse of our children.
    Whether it is the pen or the sword, such abuses should be attacked with vigour; as should those that defend such practices be attacked.

    You, me, Isolde, we don't decide on the form of democracy - though there are central tenets; it comes in many subtleties of form and function.
    We chose the political group that gives us our prefered democracy.
    Where we find our - or the incumbent democracy - changing the rules, producing distinctly undemocratic systems and structures under the cloak of democracy, then our pen and our sword should be sharp and wielded in the defence of the democratic process.

    We are talking about the defence of the people by the people
    (a common central tenet in political systems both within and beyond democracies).

    Geoff.

    May 02nd, 2011 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Woooow............

    “We are talking about the defence of the people by the people”, you say.....

    Does that include the “Unwashed and Uneducated” you so much dislike?

    May 02nd, 2011 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Think,
    there is a deal of unsophisticated understanding of the qualities needed to be a politician where I live (it might be different where you live).

    So much so that elections are treated by many, many voters like football supporters supporting their team, irrespective of policies, history of performance, etc.
    Millions voted for an illiterate and non-numerate clown to represent their interests in the Senate. Was it a statement being made about 'anybody's better than the current lot' - No, it was more akin to voting in American Idol, Britain's Got Talent, BBB, etc., a lot of people treating elections as a joke activity and just 'voting for Micky Mouse'.
    No dislike, not at all for my fellow 'man in the street' - they are my countrymen.
    Just frustration that SO MUCH social education is needed, and all that is offered is indoctrination and vote-buying.
    My dislike is reserved for the corrupt politicians that actively perpetuate this state of affairs.

    And, as a thinking man, you are worth more than a 'Wooooow'.

    May 02nd, 2011 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (62) Geoff

    In short;…………… Your concept of the ”defense of the people by the people” doesn’t include the “Unwashed and Uneducated” because they ”frustrate” you SO MUCH with their lack of social education and their propensity for indoctrination and vote-buying.

    You seem to operate with two “kinds” of people……………….

    I don’t……………..

    May 03rd, 2011 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Sigh

    May 03rd, 2011 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    Of course i will writte to professor Wenbell, i will show him my survey, and would like to read his, there is surely so much interesting information to interchange.
    Regarding the teaching of the history of the dispute in my country, i can san that we learn so little about the history of the islands, i have always asked to all my professors when i was in secondary school, to learn more about the malvinas.
    But since last year were incorporated more issues about the history of the islands, in the program that we must to teach, and that's a great news, but unfortunately, the history is always submitted to omitions, but i will teach more to my piupirls.

    May 03rd, 2011 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zethee

    Not the bloody survey again lmao. Think will have died of old age by the time we get to see that.

    May 03rd, 2011 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (64)

    Sorry Mr. Fawlty.....
    I know nothing.............
    I'm from Buenos Aires.............

    May 04th, 2011 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    You talk some rubbish Axel ! Taught so little ... are you sure ?

    noticias.terra.com.ar/diputado-atanasof-presenta-libro-sobre-malvinas-en-la-feria,558611ef7f7bf210VgnVCM4000009bf154d0RCRD.html

    You learn very little of the true history, I'll give you that !

    Brainwashing, anyone ??

    May 04th, 2011 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    #67

    :-)
    Basil: Well, of course it's a rat! You have rats in Spain, don't you - or did Franco have them all shot?
    ...
    Mr H: A Waldorf salad, please.
    Basil: Oh... a... Wa...?
    Mr H: Waldorf salad. (and make it snappy ;-)
    Basil: I think we're fresh out of Waldorfs.

    May 04th, 2011 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    65 axel arg

    Does your compulsory program teach our side of the argument as well? Or is it just your own version?

    May 04th, 2011 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Wireless

    This survey is unlikely to see the light of day unless he sets up a website and posts what he's written so far on there; even if its still remains unfinished...

    It is like waiting for Argentina to take the Falkland Islands, SGSSI, and BAT to the ICJ, such a long wait...

    May 04th, 2011 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    ZETHE. MONTY69.
    ZETHE: In spite that we never agree, i have always thought, and keep on thinking that it worths to debate with you, but some times your coments are as insignificant as REDHOYT'S. A good survey takes so much time, i have been investigating and translating what i investigated for one year, i hope i can publish it before june, anyway my survey is just an opinion, which is based on the academic knowleadge of argentine and british professors of international right, but i am not going to adjudge for my self to be the owner of the truth.
    MONTY: I said in planty of oportunities that we learn so little about the history of the islands, we only learn that the islands were belonging to spain, and we took them betwen 1820 and 1833, and the british usurped them in that year, end of the history.
    This is why i will teach more to my piupirls, the omitions in the history happen in all the countries, not only in argentina.

    May 04th, 2011 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @72, you really talk a load of rubbish, Axel. God help your pupils.

    May 04th, 2011 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    72 axel arg
    ''we only learn that the islands were belonging to spain, and we took them betwen 1820 and 1833, and the british usurped them in that year, end of the history.''
    If that is the truth, then it's a disgrace.
    Children here don't learn anything about this period of history from either side, and they don't learn about the conflict either. We prefer to look at snapshots of history to learn how ordinary people lived and leave the politics out of it.
    We used to do the Port Louis murders and the life of Antonina Roxa which they found really interesting. Funnily enough, she was still here after 1833. Quite a feat for someone who was 'expelled'.
    So which parts of our history since 1833 are you planning to teach your pupils?

    May 04th, 2011 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Isolde 73 etc,
    Axel certainly is challenged by his use of English, but we don't know if his teaching of the history of the Falklands is rubbish, because we have not been told what he actually teaches.
    It would be difficult for him to take an anglocentric approach because, I imagine, he would be rapidly sacked. But he may be able to get away with a questioning approach to conflicting 'facts'.
    There may be more there than you think - or maybe you know more about him than I do!

    May 04th, 2011 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    But you didn't take them in 1820 Axel ! You didn't send a garrison until 1832 (removed 2 months later by British forces), even though Vernett was already there with British permission.

    Your survey doesn't appear to have taught you very much !

    May 04th, 2011 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    The problem is that all of us including CFK have been studying the same bullsh*t since 1900 or before. It can make you feel really bad when you find out that your thoughts are different from the majority because you think of the soldiers, and the suffering and the deaths, government knows exactly how you being a kid will feel if they teach you that some country stole your land and killed your people, and the brainwashing has started! from that moment on they feed you sh*t, and you'll believe it simply because you are just a kid, so they tell the teachers what they must teach you, and teachers who have been brainwashed too, will tell you the same story over and over again. But it's time for us to move ahead, we're living in 1833 because our lives gravitate around the day the British pirates blah blah blah and we are now in 2011 and we're still learning the same crap. We're 200 years old, we're not kids anymore. For example, when I was in prymary school and in secondary school nobody told me that the falklanders were not soldiers and that they have a flag because they are a British Overseas Territory, they teach us about the islanders but they don't tell us that they're old people, young people, teenagers, children, etc. people who go to sleep early at night and wake up early in the morning to do things like all normal people who live in this world. Many of us have discovered many things just becasue we are curious. For example, one of my nephews who is 7 years old now repeats the same stories that my teachers taught me when I was his age. I showed it the flag of the Falklands in Wikipedia because he didn't know about the flag, they're not going to tell him about the flag. The government shouldn't be hiding this from kids anymore, it's stupid because as you can see children grow up and find it for themselves. Basically we're taught that falklanders are planning an attack, sooner or later and that's why they're there, I can't imaging Isolde shooting a Bazooka haha

    May 05th, 2011 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    ExBrain - I am speechless !

    May 05th, 2011 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard

    Re. Xbarilox 77,

    This person has been given a lot of stick from 'both sides' recently, but all I am seeing atm is sensible and deeply held perceptions on serious issues.

    Perhaps - as we all do - Xbox is sometimes frivilous with his comments and sometimes deeply perceptive.
    I guess it is up to us to see the worth in what he *actually* says.

    May 05th, 2011 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @77 Xbarilox, you have astounded me also. l hope you have a thick skin, you're going to need it when your countrymen read your post.
    At least you have seen through the lies that sucessive Argentine governments have pushed onto their people. Perhaps one day other Argentines will question the party line also & we can start being good neighbours to each other.(l did say“perhaps”)!

    May 05th, 2011 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • dab14763

    -Of course i will writte to professor Wenbell

    Who is professor Wenbell?

    May 05th, 2011 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    MONTY69. GEOFFWARD.
    There is a lot to teach about the history of the islands, i would like to teach about the british perspective too, if they have both sides of the history, they will get their conclutions, with your comment, i confirm one more time that the history is always submited to omitions everywhere, this is why it's so important to investigate.
    GEOFFWARD: I know perfectly about the british vertion, in fact my survey was based on that perspective, and i could prouve that both sides omit information, or distort the history, all the countries tell only what is convenient for each of them, my piupirls will study both sides of the history.
    Meantime, as long as i dont publish my survey, a few mediocre will keep on underestimating it, using cheap and stupid arguments, that shows how lammentable their thoughts are, because actualy no one read not even one of my investigation yet, however they criticise it, this is why i decided that i am not going to answer the stupid comments of those people, it doesn't worth.

    May 05th, 2011 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redhoyt

    So get on with it then !

    May 06th, 2011 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0

Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!