MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Latam has “unprecedented opportunity” to double GDP in next 14 years
The nations of Latin America and the Caribbean have an unprecedented opportunity to attain human development standards comparable to the industrialized world by 2025, Inter-American Development Bank President Luis Alberto Moreno said on Friday. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesLatAm your time is comming......UK, be smart is time to sit down for negotiate now (exactly as the repeated calls of the UN , UNASUR , OAS , RIO Group, Decolonization Committee C24, MERCOSUR calls, etc.).........in the future the conditiones will be different.
May 28th, 2011 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks for trying this in english,
May 28th, 2011 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but, bearing in mind that there is only a defunct entity called the Rio Group, and all these organisations respect international law, what do you think these different conditions will be?
In a simple way, I think UK can now sit down and negotiate an honorable withdrawal of South America in a position of advantage. In return, which today requested all organizations mentioned is that the conditions are fair, just and mutually beneficial for everybody.
May 28th, 2011 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, it appears that the UK wishes to maintain the status quo which will become increasingly untenable.
Glad to read that you recognise that these organisations respect international law (UNASUR, UN, C24, etc.) but unfortunately the world knows that the United Kingdom on the other hand does not obey international law and takes advantage of its position in the Security Council.
In the not too distant future, the transition in the South Atlantic will be mandatory (no doubts about it) , and in this context the conditions of withdrawal will not be profitable at all for the UK.
The details I leave to your imagination Geo. Many just feel that now is a good moment for go home with a few pounds.
It really just means that you lot are not human,
May 28th, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don’t you give up your stole loot first,
you know fxck all abt the subject, all these countries had and have the chance to be independent, but those that are left, wish/want to remain British, so your opinion is worth no more no less, [dictators you find them in every gutter in the world ]
Dear So-Fa,
May 28th, 2011 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0good use of English, you write as if you are European - which is pertinent:
It's all a question of the 'mote and the beam':
Unless you are an indigenous South American (like a native Tupi) you find yourself in the same position as a Falklander. A colonist.
But worse - you colonised your land (assuming you live on the Continent) by the destruction of the indigenous societies - known as genocide.
The legitimacy of the C24 is underwritten by the UN, and *your* Continental *colonisation* condition should occupy your thoughts ahead of the (prior-uninhabited) South Atlantic islands.
The South Atlantic islands' status' are established under existing international law, the International Court of Justice and de facto governances. The UN simply notes the Argentinean aspiration and invites dialogue.
...
You write “the conditions of withdrawal will not be profitable at all for the UK. The details I leave to your imagination . . . . .”
I have posted my projected course of events elsewhere on the site very recently.
In brief, my prognosis is that it would precipitate *again* the collapse of the embryonic coherence of the South American supra-national organisations - just as the Rio Group collapsed in the 1980s as a result of the Argentinean military incursions and threats in the South Atlantic and in the Chilean south of the Continent.
If you know any Argentineans, ask them to think once, twice and three times before racking up the rhetoric and sparking up the engines of war. It is so definitely counter-productive.
#5 In my opnion war games are barbarian. everybody knows that you lot anglo enjoy so much that stuff, but LatAm countries think and act totally different.
May 28th, 2011 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LatAm Is a region of peace and the main purpose of UNSAUR is solve problems in that way (Ecuador, Bolovia, Colombia-Venezuela affairs, Honduras, etc was a probe of that)....seem to me they´re trying to be cilivilized and developed.....slowly but in the right way.
The controversy with Malvinas now is academic, diplomatic, supported by historic facts, honor and good will looking to the future.......things that UK show to the world that lost many time ago, they use only weapons nor justice for keep alive this madness.
Now is just matter of time to fix this abnormal situation in a peacefull way in the South Atlantic that offend complete LatAm, not just Argentina.
I've got some bad news for you, the idiot in the article above is the same idiot that just gave Argentina some billion dollars in extended credits. Which only goes to show that you can fool some of the people all of the time.
May 28th, 2011 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SoFa - why should we negotiate an exit ... we are a presence near the south Cone ... maybe we should just join Mercosur !
@6 so_far,
May 29th, 2011 - 05:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0yes, lets fix this“madness”.
1) you drop your ridiculous“claims”to our land.
2) remove the offending“malvinas”clause from your constitution.
3) stop indoctrinating your children with lies about OUR Falklands.
4) don't make idle boasts about what you think that you can do to us in the future(as it“offends”me).
In my opnion war games are barbarian. everybody knows that you lot anglo enjoy so much that stuff, but LatAm countries think and act totally different.
May 29th, 2011 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0You sure do,you just kill your own
The Dirty War (Spanish: Guerra Sucia) was a period of state-sponsored violence in Argentina from 1976 until 1983. Victims of the violence included several thousand left-wing activists, including trade unionists, students, journalists, Marxists, Peronist guerrillas[1] and alleged
OK, we have a measure of this (new?) individual, So-Fa.
May 29th, 2011 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0so full of hate,
so young that he speaks in terms of war being a game, and probably zaps images of baddies on a screen.
Probably indoctrinated through school by propagandist trachers and,
I would guess, has never met and talked to a (mutilated) victim of real war.
He should seek out some survivors of the Falklands Conflict, or any listed in #9.
He should *listen to them*, for only if he has had 'a leg blown off by one of his own landmines', a parent disappeared, a brother gunned down by terrorists, would he understand a little of how real war damage feels.
A psychologically damaged child of his generation, I think.
...
My father, his father, and so many relatives of mine died or lived out their lives so mutilated through war.
So-Fa, you are a child, speaking to men.
People must see the changes that are happening will be different. may be that some people start to new vision of the world.
May 29th, 2011 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But nothing will be same. Peraphs in some year you will be seeing to the west. people should read many fonts. peace and love
@GeoffWard
May 29th, 2011 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And how did you pass so fast from...
“Dear So-Fa,
good use of English, you write as if you are European - which is pertinent: “
to: “so full of hate,
so young that he speaks in terms of war being a game, and probably zaps images of baddies on a screen.
Probably indoctrinated through school by propagandist trachers and,... A psychologically damaged child of his generation, I think... So-Fa, you are a child, speaking to men.”
??????????
“I would guess, has never met and talked to a (mutilated) victim of real war.
He should seek out some survivors of the Falklands Conflict, or any listed in #9.
He should *listen to them*, for only if he has had 'a leg blown off by one of his own landmines', a parent disappeared, a brother gunned down by terrorists, would he understand a little of how real war damage feels.”
Did something from above stop Britain to invade Iraq or Afghanistan? Nope.
People die in war Geoff and get mutilated by loosing arms, legs, part of the heads, etc. People lose sons, daughters, brothers, etc. Be sure that we know that as you do.
Its part of the risk of being a soldier what do you expect?
# 10
May 29th, 2011 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geo you feel all right ? Im probably older than you and not hate on me, also age is irrelevant when talking in terms of ideas, reality and future.
I think today is crucial to analyze and discuss clear indication of what will happen in the future and act accordingly as civilized peoples.
It calls my attention you lot focus more on the messenger than the message .... are you guys blind ? do not see what is happening on the continent and where the world is going and who the international community support ?
People die in war Geoff and get mutilated by loosing arms, legs, part of the heads, etc. People lose sons, daughters, brothers, etc. Be sure that we know that as you do.
May 29th, 2011 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its part of the risk of being a soldier what do you expect?
What regiment's did the Disappeared belong to?
Mr. ”so_far”
May 29th, 2011 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a “thinking” person, I fully agree with your opinions and analysis at posts No: (1), (3), (6) and (10)
Nice to have a blogger that, concisely and briefly, can present the South Atlantic Issue in its right perspective……………
Saludos
El Think
Thanks Think, this is an “interesting” place :)
May 29th, 2011 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0God bless LatAm, our time will come.
[] stick -----
May 29th, 2011 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge Videla had said ..“”.. in 1979
“” the Disappeared are neither dead nor alive .....“”
So_far, I don't know where you're from, but great posts.
May 29th, 2011 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nevermind mr know it all Geoff, his prospects are based on ideology and ignorance. I'm sure by time, the more you share comments with him here, you'll find out yourself.
# 18 :)
May 29th, 2011 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So-Fa,
May 29th, 2011 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sorry if you feel I have misjudged you, and too early.
Fido (#18) claims my basis is one of ideology and ignorance.
I claim ignorance of you and your circumstances - we can only judge the person on the person's postings.
My 'prospects' (#18: ?) are not based on ideology but on ideals.
I know how much better things might be - and I guess you do too - and my postings frequently relate to the evils of corruption and wilfull mismanagement of the countries around us.
Many SA ruling elites are corrupting democracy itself in their self-seeking maintenence of personal power and personal fortunes.
I am equally scathing of my first country, England, though these comments are mostly on other blog sites.
So don't take my SA comments personally (unless you are one of those self-seeking corrupt politicians, in which case I'M TALKING TO YOU)
; )
so_far ---so-good
May 30th, 2011 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0relax enjoy the fame lol
So - tell me SoFa ... who does the international community support ?
May 30th, 2011 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0And what evidence do you have for your conclusion ?
@GeoffWard
May 30th, 2011 - 05:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see that you are so concern about corruption ok that is fine and you say...
“I know how much better things might be - and I guess you do too - and my postings frequently relate to the evils of corruption and wilfull mismanagement of the countries around us.
Many SA ruling elites are corrupting democracy itself in their self-seeking maintenence of personal power and personal fortunes.”
So can you tell us with an example of what is mismanagement for you and any case of corruption you may be know that we don’t in Argentina?
: )
@16 so_far,
May 30th, 2011 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0-“our time will come”, for Argentina l'd say it's passed.
Hi Nico,
May 30th, 2011 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am specific on corruptions only wrt Brasil and the UK where my info is well researched. Wrt Argentina I make no such statements, only generalities.
These generalities may all have resulted from externalities - the actions of others., and not an Argentinean problem at all.
They may have been simply poor people in posts of power making poor calls resulting in monies flowing 'where they shouldn't'.
They may simply be the cost of doing business in Argentina (I am aware that many countries write-in an 'overhead' in all contracts).
They may be because there is no mechanism to legally fund national election campaigns, and Mensalão-type 'advertising campaigns' are used to front illegal funding transfers.
They may be because politicians and police/military are necessary links in the chain to shift drugs and launder profits.
They may be because money must change hands to acquire legal immunity from earlier political/military activity.
They may be because 'this is the way it has always been done' and nobody views it as corruption any more.
My apologies for making no specific accusations about Argentineans, but I feel quite sure that your newspapers are (or perhaps, should be) quite full each day of cases that fall into one or more of the above (off the top of my head) categories.
Geoff.
#24, let´s be possitive, that´s we need for fix this situation :)
May 30th, 2011 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#22, don´t be lazzy Red, is easy find the data just looking UN documents...even wikipedia has a nice map you can see who support each part ;)
Talking about big players you´ll find interesting the position of China, Russia, Brasil and even your more closer ally (?) USA.
Let´s be honest mate, except commonwealth community and France that share the same situation with few colonies...UK is pretty alone.
@GeoffWard
May 30th, 2011 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina there is corruption like in any other country in the world.
A recent example of that is some unionist sent to jail because the justices are investigating them for manipulation of funds and fraud on medicaments.
Another example is the case of Siemens who paid bribes in De la Rua administration. Also the same company was paying bribes in US http://en.china.cn/content/d461193,da81a8,2848_13987.html
A Canadian company not complying with Argentina’s working rules.
A public servant “Jaime” being investigated by corruption what also involves the president of Chile (Piñera)
We don’t like corruption is bad for everyone but what bothered me is that always people likes to talk about the corruption in SA but not about the corruption in Europe, Japan, USA, etc, etc.
We know that multinationals pay bribes all over the world, someone has to be stupid to do not realise that.
If Siemens for example paid in Argentina and in US sure paid in UK, France, Italy, Spain, etc.
Corruption is a road with 2 ways, how accept the bribe is corrupt but also who pays.
So is a joke that in the ranks made for example from transparency international they don’t put the based countries of these multinationals at the top of the list of corruption.
How do you think that drugs, illegal weapons, etc. get into Europe for example?
Propose the creation of a multinational body represented with equally action power for all members states in the world with power to investigate an put in jail the corrupts and wait to see how many European, American, Asian, etc. countries are interest in it.
By the way how many MP in Britain are in jail to use public funds for personal use?
: )
One BIG difference I have noticed in Brasil - and it may be present in other countries here in South America - is that the *laws exist*, but they are broken with impunity by the powerful, time and time again, with no fear of conviction because political control of the judgements of the judicary confers de facto immunity.
May 30th, 2011 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A Brasilian (South American) politician has to be so outside the circle of mutual protection to end up in prison, and with no limit to the number of appeals, a politician might practice his craft for the whole of his life, committing crimes of corruption daily, with no fear of conviction, therefore no fear of being shoved off the gravy-train.
This is why the Ficha Limpa was so important, and why the politicians continue to fight tooth and nail to water it down, water it down, water it down, water it down.
Wrt the UK, a little research then a new posting to answer your question - then we can compare the two.
@Geoff
May 30th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“and it may be present in other countries here in South America”
Dear friend you start your observation from prejudice because the same can be say about USA, Italy, France, UK, Germany and any country in the world.
In Argentina Bush will be in jail like was Menem when he was investigated for a sale or arms to a foreigner country.
De la Rua is still being prosecuted for his responsibilities in 2001 mess. And he declared to the press “I have no fears to en in jail because I’m clean”.
One of the ministers of Menem Maria Julia Alsogaray spent 2 year in jail for accusation of fraud and misadministration and all her properties were confiscated.
Soon or later you are accountable here even the militaries Juntas.
Now lets talk about Tony Blair the man who sent UK into a war based on lies why he is not in jail?
He will be here prosecuted and at least he will spend some year on jail.
The difference between countries like UK and Argentina is that we accept the problem of corruption we don’t trust politicians and we speak openly about these issues in UK everybody is in denial.
Once I was reading a pool about honesty in Europe the winner were the Irish when they were asked about what he/she would do if he found a wallet with money. The Irish said to return it to the owner though the police. The French and Italian the losers answered that they will keep the money if they couldn’t identify the owner.
The conclusion of this is.. Were the Irish really honest when answering the question? or were the Italians and the French?
Think about it would you?
Think about it would you?
May 30th, 2011 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No he (geoff) can't, and he's proven that many times here, over and over without even realizing it.(brain dead)
His thoughts
Oh no Nicodin, what are you talking about..there is no Corruption in Europe or here in the US. We are “first world nations”. There is no way that it exist in those “advanced” nations. It's simply not possible...period.
That's what he's been taught and that's the way it is in his head.
He made that clear under the article in Mercopress, about money laundring and corruption in the UK an USA.
# Geoff
May 30th, 2011 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You speak a lot but tell nothing ...steady back gear !
You just put out a feeler here / Mercopress forums ... what for !
@Fido & Yul
May 30th, 2011 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have still hope he will
Am I being naive?
: )
Seven UK MPs in total:
May 30th, 2011 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chaytor: former Labour MP, convicted 7 Jan 2011 for theft by false expenses claiming (£12,925 and £5,425) under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968.
Devine, former Labour MP was sentenced for submitting false invoices for cleaning and printing work totalling £8,385
Illsley, former Labour MP, was jailed for 12 months on Thursday 10 February 2011 for dishonestly claiming 14,500 pounds in expenses.
Lord Hanningfield, former Conservative MP, was convicted on 27 May 2011 for false claims for £13,379 for overnight stays, mileage and train fares.
Morley, former Labour MP was the first ex-minister to face prison over the expenses scandal (at 7 April 2011) Morley claimed more than £30,000 for mortgage payments.
Jonathan Aitken; former Conservative MP and minister, was convicted in 1999 of perjury, lying about a Saudi arms deal, and received an 18-month prison sentence.
Lord Archer was jailed in 2001 (four year sentence) for perjury in a private libel case against the Daily Star over an allegation that he slept with a prostitute.
(Lord Profumo resigned from Parliament in 1963. Profumo lied to Parliament about 'having a relationship' with Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice-Davies. Not convicted.)
Of course, in the UK, most MPs lie to the public (it's called 'dissembly' to make it sound more acceptible), but to lie in court is a heinous crime.
To steal is bad,
and so is to sleep with a prostitute.
Pretty small beer, compared to the millions of reais I see pocketed every week in Brasil (filmed & frequently shown on national television - no convictions), and the murders instigated for political reasons, etc, etc.
@ GeoffWard
Jun 01st, 2011 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t like to talk about something that I really don’t know much I’ve been in Brazil as a tourist that’s all.
Ah! Geoff I know UK and several countries in Europe and also know Argentina.
The level of corruption in UK for example is similar or even worse than in Argentina and Italy is in the top.
“Of course, in the UK, most MPs lie to the public (it's called 'dissembly' to make it sound more acceptible), but to lie in court is a heinous crime.”
If I am not wrong this is called “perjury” in English what here we call “falso testimonio”.
If you are found guilty of “Perjury or falso testimonio” here in court in a “civil court” you can face to one month to four years in prison.
But if you are found guilty of “perjury or falso testimonio” in a “criminal court” you will spend 10 years in prison.
Title XII of the Argentina’s penal code, legislation under chapter XII, in articles 275 y 276.
Geoff you have to be really naive to think that UK or any other country in EU is less corrupt than any other in the world because Transparent international say so.
This is a big lie like thinking that Coca Cola® Big Macs are good for health because National Heart Lung and Blood Institute say so.
How do think they are being sponsoring by?
http://www.fooducate.com/blog/2010/02/19/should-food-companies-sponsor-health-organizations/
You have to go deeper Geoff and you would understand how rotten is everything around the world.
: )
Yes,
Jun 01st, 2011 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and some countries have a 5th Amendment so they don't have to lie in court or self-incriminate. But lies are prolific in courts around the world.
[“I did not have sexual relations with that woman” - Judge Wright found the president in contempt for lying in his Jan., 1998, testimony, when he denied the Lewinsky affair.]
There is a big 'civil service' structure in most countries where part of the function is to ensure illegalities and extensions of practice into the corrupt, never see light of day in court.
It speaks well of the UK that D Notices have been replaced with an, albeit imperfect, FIA.
But perhaps the only way we can see truth and extent of national imperfections is by exposure through procedural transparency - and failing that (for example) - Wikileaks.
And yes, I do believe some countries are less corrupt than others; by the reciprocal, some must be more corrupt than others.
To think otherwise is to indulge in illogicality.
To return to my post 28,
the key thing is not to have law - though this is an essential prerequisite - *it is to operate at all levels within it*, and to ensure that from the lowest to the highest in the land, *none* are above or beyond the reach of the law. . . . . and this is where I see the big difference mentioned earlier.
@GeoffWard
Jun 02nd, 2011 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0“self-incriminate” yes any person accused of any crime is innocent until he/she is found guilty in a court and he is not forced to incriminate him self and has the right to have legal assistance if he cannot pay for it, bla, bla , bla. Ere is the same like in most democratic countries I guess.
Anyway to get rid of corruption you will have to change the whole system and avoid banks, money, system of govt. etc.
Corruption is a matter of culture and habits for example. Do you accept interest when you lend money?
Under the eyes on the Shariah law banking system you are a corrupted person.
Can you see how its works?
So as I know that your are so concern about corruption I wouldn’t like to see you in Allih Babba transparency chart listed as a corrupted person.
Can you lend me some Quids without interest to prove your compromise against corruption?
Nico, you ask:
Jun 02nd, 2011 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Can you lend me some Quids?'
I stopped using quids years ago in favour of something more Real.
A lot more interesting.
I stopped using tobacco half a century ago, so my quids are pretty dry now; you really wouldn't want them.
Here in Bahia we do good quids of Chiclete Com Banana, but the great Chiclete wouldn't be interested - except at Carnival. Here they put their quids on the bedpost overnight - no taste.
I first thought you said 'Squids', so I asked the Great Lula, but he wasn't interested either - though he said he could give you quite a lot of guidance on corruption.
; )
@ GeoffWard
Jun 02nd, 2011 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well at least you didn’t offer me Quid pro quo what may sound a little bit of corruption. Ha ha
Quid= British Pound Sterling $$$$, moneta, soldi, money, plata, moneda, geld, etc
: )
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