MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands calls on C24 “to open its mind” and support Islanders desire to determine their future
The Falkland Islands called on the UN Decolonization Committee to open its mind to both sides of the sovereignty dispute with Argentina, underlining “legitimate sovereignty is a self-determined desire to live under a government of one’s own choice”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWow, thats a far more robust statement than in previous years.....cracking out the beer and pretzels awaiting the angry mashing of keyboards by Argentina's keyboard warriors three :)
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well i guess they're awaiting the results of Gib getting itself removed from the list.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0C-24 can't keep ignoring the people it was created to represent.
Dick Sawle was born in Sheffield England, He went on to study Spanish, South American Studies and Egyptology at the University of Liverpool. In 1986 Sawle emigrated to Malvinas, founded the fishing company Seaview Ltd.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes self determination for the Argentinean fish...so we can steal it from Argentina at no charge”
Did I mention that Roger Edwards was born in Brinkworth, England as well?
Let's move to London and claim Britain then.
Well that was one great truthful speech that firmly put the mockers on that rogue lying country called Argentina. Now the whole world can see what lying two faced charlatans they are. Now f*** off and put your own poverty struck country with its high inflation and corrupt lying officials right.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Let's move to London and claim Britain then.”
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By all means move over here and call for a referendum. You'll only need say 15 million Argentinians to win the vote.
5 Ok, but we don't have nuclear subs, warships nor nuclear bombs, will that work?
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the argie bloggers go very quiet, except Marcos of course
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He doesn’t know what side he is on .,
But i hope we get to hear the argie side of it, all the lies and bullshit,
Then see C24 make that all important decision,
Do they back their crooked mates, or back democracy and make them look stupid, the results will be interesting, unless of course your Argentinian lol.
Marcos: Has nothing to do with voting.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 03 Morecrap
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jeezuz your numb in the head aren't you? Although they not have been born in the Falklands they are the democratically elected representatives of the Falkland Islanders....and thus idiot they are obligated to speak on THE ISLANDERS BEHALF for the ISLANDERS SELF-DETERMINATION.
Likewise an elected Argentine citizen although not born in Argentina would still be obligated to speak on his/her constitutes...
Basic principles of democracy more-crap get a grip your still quite clearly in the cretaceous period of human evolution.
Fantastic speech, clear and concise.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dick Sawle was born in Sheffield England, He went on to study Spanish, South American Studies and Egyptology at the University of Liverpool. In 1986 Sawle emigrated to Malvinas, founded the fishing company Seaview Ltd.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes self determination for the Argentinean fish...so we can steal it from Argentina at no charge”
According to Section 55 of the Argentine Constitution, candidates for the Argentine Senate must
be at least 30 years old
have been a citizen of Argentina for six years
be native to the province of his office, or have been a resident of that province for two years
your are welcome newly...this man should remember that Argentina is claiming that England stole something and must return.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos - you have something right for once, you have no credible military. That rules out a forced removal of the Islanders. As the Islanders want to remain a BOT then your only other option is a legal challenge. I suppose you are preparing your case for the ICJ then?
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 09 Rhaurie, They sent two englishman to this important meeting because the “big heads” had a hard time to find a natural born islander... and sober.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Two englishman representing you in the UN Decolonization Committee make you look like a bunch of fools and a what really is, a British colony.
You should've gone instead...I almost forget that you weren't born there either.
@14 Is that really relevant? He has been elected spokesman by and represents the people of the Island where he lives.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is an excellent and compelling speech from Dick Sawle. I wonder how anyone can argue his logic.
The Islanders are happy as they are and should be left to decide their own future just like Argentinians are free to decide their own future.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Contrast the pathetic and excitable insults from President Kirchener to the measured and considered way the brave Falklander Islanders present their case. No wonder why they prefer not to be part of Argentina.
Marcos, if you're an important member of NATO, one of the lynch pins of European Defence, and hold a Permanent Seat on the UN Security Council, you have to be able to project a force capability, both to enforce UNSC Resolutions Worldwide, and provide Humanitarian Aid where the UN deems it necessary.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This means ownership of Nuclear Subs, Warships, and Nuclear Bombs are a very real requirement. Should Argentina one day wish to gain a Permanent Seat, would it be able to afford the means to enforce the will of the UN? Will Argentina get over it's internal corruption, lies, poverty, and indoctrination under its flawed democracy, and be able to fill the boots of such a role on the World Stage?
I would put money on it not doing so during this century.
Get a grip man, face up to the lies and deceit, think for yourself for once, educate yourself to the reality, they are feeding you bullshit in Argentina, and you are lapping it up like its honey.
@14
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He was elected by us Marcos...us...the Falkland Islanders...to represent us (Falkland Islanders). He stood for election....E L E C T I O N, lot's of people voted for him..V O T E D...that's where you indicate on a B A L L O T paper which C A N D I D A T E you want to represent you.....it's called D E M O C R A C Y....understand now?
Cretin.
TWIMC
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle.......................
Can’t see any problem with Dick and Roger embarrassing themselves in front of the UN Decolonization Committee……
Two British squatters democratically elected by 2476 other British squatters……
Makes perfect sense to me :-)))
Marcos will never understand true democracy 18 its beyond any Argentinians comprehension. They are fed lies and propaganda from the moment they stick their lips over their mothers nipples. And they call themselves civilized that's the biggest joke of all time.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think, if 'Dick and Roger' were embarrassing, then Timo must have been a national disgrace for you, a joke, with a joke claim, playing a joker.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The mentally ill usually chuckle to themselves repeatedly, I have a strong suspicion you're in need of a change in medication.
Isn't it ironic a Colonization calling the UN Decolonization Committee?
Jun 21st, 2011 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The answer to that question is quite simple.
You want to remain British, Argentina will always claim their part.
You want to remain as a FREE nation and NOT depend on ANYONE, then you'll be free. Follow my advice
UK and Argentina are just like a couple soooooooooo in love, even they deny it
lol @ mad falklanders
Jun 21st, 2011 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they mad
they furious
The man has done a great job, and i can’t wait to see what YOUR representative says, when he gets his turn,
Jun 21st, 2011 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He can’t tell the truth, or he will make his master look stupid, and if he tells the truth he will look stupid,
Are you silly enough to be Argentinian, ??
After reading mr sawle's statement i confirm one more time the history is always submited to omitions or distortions, and the right to self determination is open to objetions or diferent postures.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's true that our history omits information respecting the sovereign dispute for the malvinas, but mr sawle is distorting a lot, it's necesary to remind him a couple of points.
It's true that not all our settlement was expelled by the u. k. in 1833, but our authorities were forced to leave the islands, and the argentine flag was lowered.
In 1833 the united provinces were trying to excercise their sovereign rights, our rights were derived of the sucession of states, anyway all these points are much more complicated and i explain them in my survey.
Beside it's really cheap to hold that we have colonial ambitions, it's must be signalized that it wasn't argentina the country that became the islands into a colony, it was actualy the u.k., in 1833 the malvinas were nobody's colony.
On the other hand, if self determination is the paramount, then i hope that the decolonization committee aplies that principle for the our case, because it never did.
Beside dont keep on using the dictatorship as an excuse to reject the negotiations, the same desperation that the islanders felt during 76 days, is the same that we felt during 7 years and half, when planty of our compatriots were taken by the force and continue dissapeared, beside mr sawle should mention too that in 1980 minister readley was sent to malvinas to achive that the islanders accept to negotiate the sovereignty, that shows how insignificant they were for the u. k.
Meantime, the resolutions of the u. n, should be respected, it's very easy and pathetic to play the victim, when one of the parts doesn't respect the resolutions, we are not asking you to accept only our sovereignty, we are asking you to negotiate, it's not imposible to find a solution that respect the rights of both parts.
Erm, Axel. There have been many discussions in the past about all sorts of things like fisherys ect. What we refuse to do is discuss sovereignty.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That, Is all Argentina is intrested in talking about. And you are wrong in saying that it's possible to find a solution that respects both partys. Any discussions regarding sovereignty would be against the islanders wishes and therefore disrepectful to them.
And yes, you are asking them to accept your sovereignty.
Who needs the UN? When have they ever supported us? In 1982 they side with the British! Who needs the US? In 1982 they side with the British, they are former British colonials! Who needs the EU? In 1982 they side with the British! They do not listen to us, so we need to take action now to restore the Malvinas to their rightful rulers. We must ensure that the colonial population are removed, to make space for our own people and to ensure that the Mavlinas does not turn into a proxy colony of Britain, while under rightful Argentine administration. We must take all the socialista out now, clear the way for a strong government that can lead our nation. No more cowards like 82'!
Jun 21st, 2011 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What has become of the war crimes they commit against us? The people of the Malvinas supported the British in 1982, they do not want us! WE DO NOT WANT THEM! GO HOME NOW
Flip flop, with such well oiled political masterminds like yourself I can see Argentina dominating the World, NOT
Jun 21st, 2011 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 re 27. This is what happens when parents do not monitor their child's use of the computer.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But what if his mum is not to clever ??
Jun 21st, 2011 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A flipper man was in his front yard mowing grass when his long lost mother , came out of the house and went straight to the mailbox.
She opened it then slammed it shut and stormed back into the house.
A little later she came out of her house again went to the mail box and again, opened it, slammed it shut again. Angrily, back into the house she went.
As the flipper man was getting ready to edge the lawn, his mother , came out again, marched to the mail box, opened it and then slammed it shut harder than ever.
Puzzled by her actions the flipper man asked her, 'Is something wrong?'
To which she replied, 'There certainly is!'
(Are you ready? This is a beauty....)
'My stupid computer keeps saying, 'YOU'VE GOT MAIL!'
The Islas Malvinas belong to Argentina. THIS is the undeniable TRUTH. Both the UK and Argentina and evryone else, including the Islanders called Kelpers, KNOW THE TRUTH.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But:
1- Argentina: lacks the military power, the wisdom, the cunning and skilful polititians and diplomats the millenium-old England has achieved.
2- Britain:... well, Britain has ALL the cards, ALL of the cards needed to finally crush all Argentina´s hopes of recovering the islands except for one: THE TRUTH. (now whether this one and only card is of great or no importance for the International Community and its bodies, for which the UK stands for and is a part of remains to be seen).
Precedents to assess a possible outcome: look at JFK´s plotted murder, the causes of which and the perpetrators hid always behind the dark curtains of this world; the second invasion of Irak by George W Bush over the inexistent WMD (weapons of mass destruction which became the weapons of mass distraction), they were NEVER found. TRUTH was thus trumpled upon ´n´ shredded to pieces like hell by the one superpower alone, the USA (to my disillusionment and despair coz i have always admired the US democracy and their democratic styles, W.Wilson, FD Roosvelt, and Lincoln, Jefferson, and other great figures of their past).
But I still believe NOT ALL English people are blinded by some of their London representatives and cunning plotters trying to defend the untenable: they know that in 1833 they acted based on the strategical aspirations of a global colonial power and seized a territory from a small country, planted people of their own (degenerating into a situation a population of islanders who must now face the consequences of living in a place which is NOT theirs) and set up a base/colony.
SO, th Islanders must understand that their rights to self-determination ARE and WILL be taken into account BUT are limited by the sovereignty to the Malvinas that Argentina is rightfully entitled to. Based on this, a solution is there
“The Islas Malvinas belong to Argentina. THIS is the undeniable TRUTH. Both the UK and Argentina and evryone else, including the Islanders called Kelpers, KNOW THE TRUTH.”
Jun 21st, 2011 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your argument has already failed at this point.
Think - if that's the best you can come up with, then the islander's have obviously done a good job.
Jun 21st, 2011 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel - all that study time wasted! YOUR ommissions include the fact that the British claim dates back to 1765. A claim that predates Spain's and one that has never been abandoned. You also fail to mention that Uti Possidetis Juris was not proclaimed in South America untill 1848 (not that Argentina turned up) and was not generally recognised for another 100 years. It remains controversial. It has no effect on 1833.
You were right about the Argentine authorities though. But 2 months is not enough time to establish sovereignty - particularly when a mutiny is taking place.
Your final error is to refer to the C-24 as a provider of 'Resolutions'. It is not. The only recognised Resolutions come from the General Assembly or the Security Council. Hasn't been a GA Resolution on this issue since 1988. And not one from the SC since 1982.
Another year ....... gone :-)
@31, Goatie,
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for the TRUTH, we hold that card too actually. It might pay you to study a bit of the real Falklands history, rather than the indoctrinated pul the RG schooling system churns out. Thankfully for you the authors of such work have been kind enough to translate their factual and well researched work into Spanish. If and when you have studied this document, I dare you to reply and waylay all the concise arguments on this case.
Rgds
http://www.falklandshistory.org/spanish4.pdf
brti cat:Now f*** off and put your own poverty struck country with its high inflation and corrupt lying officials right
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am surprised of the good definition of uk,you are doing.
Let see,if your statement corroborates,other sources:
Jim Rogers the UK is FINISHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Jim Rogers UK will go bankrupt pt 1/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Jim Rogers Flush your Sterlings Down The Toilet !!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Jim Rogers Invest in Agricultural Commodities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Argentina is an agricultural power. It produces 100 million tons of food products and exports more than 50 million tons. Argentina is the second largest producer of agricultural commodities and livestock after USA. It is a large exporter of wheat, soya and meat. It is the world’s largest exporter of soy oil and sunflower oil, the second largest exporter of corn, third largest producer of beef , soybeans and biodiesel and fourth largest of wheat. Argentina is the fifth largest producer of wine in the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
I'm afraid anyone that uses YouTube as evidence is an idiot !
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few sources for your research -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
You should also remember that Argentina exports more to the UK than the UK exports to Argentina. That means you have more to lose!
Rotted “I'm afraid anyone that uses YouTube as evidence is an idiot !
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 06:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few sources for your research”
Hmmm what could it be?
Wikipedia??? hahahahahaha
mai mi samong
No idea what you last sentence was there MoreCrap .... the wife didn't understand it either 'mai mi' = 'no have' but 'samong' no idea.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 06:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still the Great God Wiki is rather better than YouTube ... and acts as a basis for serious research. Not that Argies do 'serious research'. No, they rely on schoolbooks and 'lies for children'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children
35 Tte Estevez------- Oh so your not that corrupt country that everyone in the world knows about, you have not got over 2,000,000 people living in shanty town squalor in Buenos Aires alone, drinking and bathing in a river so polluted that people are dying from drinking and bathing in it, The same river that the international community including the UK have given over 1 billion $ to the corrupt officials to clean it up, those officials that have pocked most if not all that money, your not that country then?
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your not that country that has always had high inflation that is ruining all that is good in your country, your not that country then?
Like I said f*** off and put your own country right. And you could start by becoming a proper democratic country. Argentina Flawed democracy Federalism, Presidential system, bicameralism. while the UK United Kingdom Full democracy Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy, bicameralism.
@Think
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes they sound as a typical sober and arrogant from English's countryside demanding, they forgot to say “look blody f@knig N” listing to me or I will wipe you up.
Not professional at all and embarrassing themselves well you know Olmedos yellow jacket Pro style they are everywhere and Brutish are not an exemption. Ha ha
@Redhoyt
You complaining about youtube and using wikipedia
You are a joke mate.
“right to self determination is open to objetions or diferent postures”
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0No Axel, you are utterly wrong. The right to self determination cannot be qualified. It is unlimited. That comes to you direct from the UN 4th Committee, not to mention the UN Charter and a host of UN GA and SC resolutions. Get used to it.
When it comes to being a joke Dim, I am a minnow surrounded by Argie whales. At least Wiki quotes its sources and allows further research. YouTube is merely entertainment. As indeed, are you.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0It looks as though the lads from the islands aquitted themselves rather well. All but called Tinman a liar. The question now of course, is will the draft Resolution get passed the Fourth Committee in October. Hasn't managed it in decades but hey! Maybe this is Argentina's year?
:-)
@25 Axel,
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0it is impossible to find a solution that respects the rights of both parts because in the Falklands, you don't have any rights.
Your flag was lowered & your garrison was ejected because they were trying to steal British land.
l have asked you before, what are you willing to “negotiate”.
Please enlighten us all. What will you give us for our sovereignty?
@31 Gotey,
That you own our lslands is not truth but lies. You have no hope.
@27 Filippo,
get back into your cage, troll.
14 Bravo morecrap, your two braincells have been working overtime....to say absolutely nothing.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0So whats the issue numbnutts.....two democratically elected representatives speaking on behalf of their electorate, I don't see any issue.....obviously that relatively simple concept takes on the form of superior quantum physics for your clearly limited cranial capacity...
Oh so your not that corrupt country that everyone in the world knows about, you have not got over 2,000,000 people living in shanty town squalor in Buenos Aires alone, drinking and bathing in a river so polluted that people are dying from drinking and bathing in it, The same river that the international community including the UK have given over 1 billion $ to the corrupt officials to clean it up, those officials that have pocked most if not all that money, your not that country then?
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really...I think you got the wrong country!!
Why you do not visit Argentina.......It is an amazing country........
That is the reality about uk.....
Unfortunately,Jim Rogers,become a multimillionare at 35...
So he knows how the world works.......
45 Tte Estevez (#)------- Nope I dont have the wrong country www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/210410/argentina___two_million_in_buenos_aires_shanty_towns_.aspx.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The most poluted river in the world, see it and weep.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYKcfEmIzk
So no I don't think I will be visiting Argentina, why on earth should I visit a third world country full of corruption and squalor.
Jimmy Rogers was talking while the world was in a economic recession two years ago and a year a go, mind you Argentina probably does not know about the world recession seeing that she is in a permanent one.
When was the last time Argentina gave billions away to other countrys to help them out?
The UK has helped bailed out Ireland 11billion £s, Greece 10 billion £s, Portugal 10 billion £s, Spain will be next with her hand out probably we will give her 11 billion £s. That's besides the 11 billion £ aid that we will be giving to other countries. Greece has now come forward again with her hand out for another few billion £s. Its not bad for a broke country is it, a third world country according to some Muppet's on this site.
You Argys are so blind to the facts in life, however that is understandable, you have all been fed a diet of Government propaganda from the moment you began to suck on your Mommy's nipples. You have only got to see your reaction to the Falklands to see this assumption
@Britishbulldog
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why we argies always have to educate ignorant Brits like you? There is not public free education in Ukistan any more? Just wonder
Have you ever heard about Citarum river in Jakarta (Indonesia)
If you don’t take a look http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-460077/Is-worlds-polluted-river.html
Yeah Little Brutishchiguagua your country is a third world country doesn’t matter what you give, lend etc. you received a lot too from third world countries like China, Arabs, Africans, etc. You own to the world 10 trillions dollars. So the money you are giving is not even yours, else is borrowed from elsewhere and may be another scam from you govt. to dry even more what is left in Ukistan.
Now take a look
UK, does this look like a western civilised country or just some little country in Africa?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-460077/Is-worlds-polluted-river.html
Now Argentina
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-460077/Is-worlds-polluted-river.html
Can you see the difference?
So now go to do what you are best at, let’s say nothing.
It's not really hard to do nico. Oh look:
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXCUNrCgLDo - London
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXCUNrCgLDo - BA
What does it prove? Nothing. And to be honest, It's a really cheap and poor way of trying to get your point across.
Then again, i shouldn't expect much less from you.
47 NicoDim----- Seems I have hit a raw nerve once again, its not hard to do with dimwits like you, show us all again all those millions of shanty town dwellers in the UK you have seen, after all I have shown you your shanty town dwellers all 2 million of them in your Capital shitty, I am sure your going to show us a river in the UK that is so polluted that its poisoning all those millions of shanty town dwellers that you cant show in that third world country that isn't.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said NicoDim you come from a joke country that cant get its inflation right, that is so full of corruption that it steals money given to it by the international community to clean up the worst polluted river in the world that is poisoning over 2 million of your fellow citizens. once more for everyone to see just in case they missed it the first second and third time, NicoDims third world country and Capital shitty. www.meattradenewsdaily.co.uk/news/210410/argentina___two_million_in_buenos_aires_shanty_towns_.aspx.
And the river
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYKcfEmIzk
Yep old son we sure can see the difference.
Indonesia was Dutch colony. History isn't a strong point in Argentina is it.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ zethe
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 03 minutes of slideshow of the little Westminster even repeating the same pictures ha ha
And then... after 10 minutes walk from tourist area reality the third world appears...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
What this shows?
That you are a third world country like any other that you like to call in Africa.
That you are not so advanced as you like to think.
That you are not any world power as your press, politician say.
That you live in a burble.
That you are a broke nation as many.
And that you have to learn a lot and get out more often of you little Island if you can afford the ticket or course.
And a lot of things more to be considered like the indoctrination you get from you media, politician and the difficulty to see reality as its is.
@Bchiguagua and Jcunts
Let me see morons ah!
1- Indonesia is the places where the most contaminated river is. What have to do the Dutch?
2- Britishchiguagua
You have not idea of the size of Buenos Aires just in case you are so lazy to use Gmaps or earth let me show what is around Buenos Aires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
And enjoy out of Buenos Aires in the north shantytown?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ibKn_G1ic
No need to look for something in UK because just look like our shantytown but the real ones
To say you missed the point of my post is understatement of magnificent proportions.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TIMBUES, Argentina, Sept 15 (Reuters) - Thousands of trucks loaded with soybeans clog up pot-holed highways and unpaved roads around the Argentine city of Rosario -- home to one of the world's biggest, most efficient soy-crushing industries.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 034JOU-JOU
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read that article months ago and in English. At the time, in one of the posts, I said you were presenting interesting documents.
Question is, Have you yourself tried reading some of the documents Argentina has to counter your proofs?
The Problem here is WHO will be the REALLY UNBIASED JUDGE to study, check, verify and make sure that each of the proofs presented by both parties the UK and Argentina ARE real and are not fabricated documents. WHO?
The ICJ? mmm... Britain, Argentina, the US? China? WHO?
Ever since 1984 was written by George Orwell, anyone who has read that novel and has gotten acquainted with the powerful distortions both the controlled media and the governements can exercise to push the people into believing LIES, i.e. fabrications, anyone who knows about the current capabilities for many people to forge documents, change headlines in old newspapers, etc, etc SOUNDS paranoid, but Governments such as the UK or the US are much more prone to use those technologies to fit documents into the realitities they want and suit their best interests.
Any CONCLUSION for the disputed sovereingty over the Malvinas/Falklands is more up to what the British can do about it rather than what Argentina can do.
NO ONE can deny that you stole land from Argentina by force, the two islanders said it themselves:
“....Argentine Foreign Minister Timerman will claim later this morning that an Argentine civilian population was expelled from the Falklands in 1833. In 1833, Britain did expel an Argentine military garrison that had been sent to the islands three months earlier, but the small civilian population present on the islands in 1833 was encouraged to remain and all but four individuals decided to do so...” WOW! What a confession they have dared say without a pinch of shame! ...
Goatie - the ICJ consists of judges from around the world. Argentina has had judges on that panel too. I think you need to do some more research on the ICJ.
Jun 22nd, 2011 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can deny that we stole land from Argentina. The ISLANDERS can deny that we stole land from Argentina. The UK can deny that we stole land from Argentina. And it's so easy to prove .... Argentina DID NOT EXIST in 1765!
As for your confession. The British threw off the illegal, trespassing, invasive Argentine garrison. We were entitled to. We had owned the place, sorry to repeat myself but you seem to be dense, since 1765 !!
Learn - http://www.falklandshistory.org/spanish4.pdf
re 54 gotey,
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0good that you read it in english, as I have, but I'm sure the Spanish version is also excellent. knowing Mr. Pepper, he has plenty of Argentine friends to help him translate. Re your Argentine documents that claim to counter proof (not my proof btw), yes I have. Some are factually incorrect, some are missing vital references, some are obscure British diplomats that spoke out of turn. If you have compelling references to Argentine documents that contradict the case that Pepper and Pascoe built, I'd love to read them, although I must admit my Spanish is perhaps not good enough for legal documents. Please send me a bibliography list.
re ICJ, I have no comment. One either trusts the legal system to be fair or not, but it is the best we have. In any case the highest court we can go to in cases like this. If Argentina does not want to go their, fine too. We'll just carry on as we are then.
About George Orwell paranoia, you said it yourself. I don't believe in that spin. What I do believe is that the Peronist lies that Argentines have been brainwashed with for decades have twarted any truth that may have been known about in Argentina re the Falklands issue.
About stealing land. We did not steal land. Vernet got a permit from the Brits in BA to start a business venture in the Falklands, not to become an Argentine Governor. So, we settled the dispute for once and for all, and then sent the mutinous garrison on its way, a few RG civvies remained. The rest is history. In fact one of these RG settlers, a lady by the name of Antonina Roxa later became a relatively wealthy landowner.
And then, may I add something here. In the 1860's a number of folk here were landless workers who wanted land to own and exploit. They went over to Rio Gallegos and settled on farms there, granted by the RG government. Some of their ancestors still farm their: Rudd, Blake, Halliday to name a few. Gallegos did not exist before then.
I await your reply.
rdg
Wonder if the timing of her Ladyships pefectly obvious to all(standing for re-election) press release had anything to do with diverting Argentine press away from reporting much on the C24 discussions and what Dick Sawle stated? After all it might have been a bit embarrassing for 40 million Argentines to learn that the islands “history” they have been fed for years is indeed based on lies and falsehoods!
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0(55) Redhoyt, (56) JoJo, (57) Islander1 and a few others…………
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 03:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chuckle chuckle
Funny to see that so much of your “case” seems to be resting on ”the true value” of an internet PDF file written by two “researchers”: Graham Pascoe & Peter Pepper
http://www.falklandshistory.org/
But....... Who are those two “researchers”…..?
Who are those two gentlemen…..?
Who are those two…..?
Graham PASCOE
MA (Oxon), Ger & Fr; English teacher; Dip TEFL(Wales); Dip Ling (Lond); Dr Phil (Munich).
Peter PEPPER
BA (Hons) Keele; geologist; former Co-Editor of the Falkland Islands Newsletter.
Wooooooow an English teacher and a “ex employee” of the Falkland Islands Newsletter !!!
Mounting evidence shows that those two individuals are hired, paid and maintained by the Falkland island squidocracy for the sole purpose of creating a new “official story”
Please try again……………..
PS:
Try to google ”Peter Pepper”………….. it’s quite funny :-)))
Think, sorry to shatter your conspiracy theory but the FI Newsletter is a 3 or 6 monthly letter put out by a charity organization and has nothing at all to do with F.I.Govt. And he is the ex editor anyway - but even so - so what? - dont see your line? Does it really matter if you are British,Argentine or Chinese if what you print is based on hard fact? Is it now a devious crime to be an english teacher in and english speaking nation like UK?
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe everbody your side is hurridly clutching at straws anywhere, now FI Govt at the C24 has publicly laid out the lies and falsehoods of the Arg claim?
” an English teacher and a “ex employee” of the Falkland Islands Newsletter !!!
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mounting evidence shows that those two individuals are hired, paid and maintained by the Falkland island squidocracy for the sole purpose of creating a new “official story”
Not only hired to create a new official story, also hired to change the British official story because agree with Argentina history facts.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
Think .. you are not thinking ... again! Facts are facts. Proveable facts are even better. P&P have come up with proveable facts ... the Argentine Government has not.
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let me make a couple of points -
1) according to Axel, the Government of Argentina tried on a number of occassions to take the UK to an (unnamed) international tribunal in the 1890's. I think, THINK, that you will accept that Britain in the 1890's was a, if not the, world's leading Superpower. So - little Argentina is prepared to take on the giant in 1895. So why, oh why, is Argentina now NOT prepared to take on a Britain that, if the posters here are to be believed, is now a third world country? The ICJ is available. It was not in 1895. It has multi-national judges sitting on its panels. So - why? What has happened since 1895? Has Argentina begun to question its version of history? Or has it realised that signing the UN Charter changed the position? What do you think, Think?
2) also last year your Government came out with a document entitled, 'The Question of the Malvinas and the Bicenttenial of Argentina”. Have you read it? You should. The various authors cannot even get their facts straight in one Argentine 'official ' document. The question is however, that this document was put together by the 'Observatory' ... what happened to them? Weren't they supposed to put forward coherent arguments in favour of Argentina's claim?? So where are their conclusions? They don't seem to have produced very much !
You lot can twist and turn all you like, it doesn't change the fact that your version of history is flawed and that, history apart, the islander's have rights under the UN Charter that Argentina can do nothing to change. Argentina signed that Charter when they joined.
You are beaten. Get used to it!
@61 Redhoyt,
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very well put, Red.
Lets see them wriggle out of that if they can.
Somebody mentioned the observatory, this is an Argentine Government institution funded to pump out propaganda on the Falklands dressed up as history.
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pepper and Pascoe are not paid for by the FIG, they are independent researchers. I don't think anyone is dependent on their opinion, I started my own research and came to very similar conclusions independently.
Thats what you can do if you have an open mind.
Trouble is the likes of El Thicko judge people by their own corrupt standards and it all has to be a conspiracy.
Those with an open mind, listen, check that their sources corroborate their claims and then make up their minds.
The likes of El Thicko and his pals, don't wish to listen to the truth and construct elaborate conspiracy theories to justify to themselves why the fantasy they cling to is correct.
A very simple question, Argentina claims the population was expelled in January 1833, so how can Darwin document their continued presence in March 1833 and again in 1834?
Who expects an answer? I don't.
”according to Axel, the Government of Argentina tried on a number of occassions to take the UK to an (unnamed) international tribunal”
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's unnamed because it didn't happen. It was mentioned in there press that they might take it to court, they never actually did.
(61) Redhoyt
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always thought of you as a fellow one could have some laughs at the Public Bar……….
And you do not let me down!
”Acording to Axel”……… Yes……………, he and Pepper & Pascoe belong in the same category…................................ Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
And your ”affronted and exalted responses” to that Brutish Troll; ”Fillipo”….............................................. Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
Chuckle chuckle
El Think
I'm not certain what FlipFlop is, but he's not me! I'd have a lot more fun with a nom de plume :-)
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not certain about public bars either ... not with the head I've got this morning. Beware good company ... it hurts!
The C24 has gone quiet,
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What was the outcome, or have they not yet come to a decision,
REdh55
Jun 23rd, 2011 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina already existed by 1820 at the least, 1825 at the most. The UK ship usurped the islands in 1833.
1765: Spain existed and had a treaty with the UK, the Treaty of Utretch signed in 1713.
Argentina by the UTIS POSSIDETIS IURE started owning the Malvinas by 1816 and effectively occupied them (as different from the Patagonia, much later occupied), by 1820. There was a standing population in the islands, they saw themselves as part of Argentina, the military Governor-Commander Louis Vernet was appointed by the RG govt and was there to stand for Argentina´s rights to sovereignty on the Islands. There was a small garrison and a small Argentine armed vessel (though innocuous for a battle against more modern/prepared Brit ships at the time). There was an Argentine Flag flying in the Islands. Then, the USS Lexington showed up, destroyed part of it all, and the HMS Clio some time later in 1833, showed up and ordered the Argentine garrison to surrender and lower the Argentina flag on grounds that Las Islas Malvinas were part of the UK.
CONCLUSIONS:
1- the UK did not have and hasn´t had any rights or titles to own the Islands.
2- the UK used force to steal land from Argentina
3- the UK has always skipped/dodged any Argentina´s claims to hand the islands back.
4- the Malvinas are today inhabited by a people, we can call “the lambs in a horrible situation”, lambs who cannot believe or refuse to believe their ancestors were planted there by their masters, the UK London government by use of FORCE against a weaker country, holding no TITLES to those lands”.
5- Argentina understands the horrible situation for many islanders who now see themselves entangled into a conflict they never asked for and were unaware of perhaps for decades. But they must know they were planted there by the strategic interests of the British Empire at the time.
6- Argentina will accept ANYTHING the Islanders ask to keep their lifestyles and socio-economic standards, BUT NOT SOVEREIGNTY.
Goatie -
Jun 24th, 2011 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 01) We claimed sovereignty and posted a garrison on the islands in 1765. The Treaty of Utrecht 1713 is irrelevant.
2) The British came close to war with Spain in 1770/71 and Spain was forced to back down. No secret clauses, Spain 'lost'.
3) The British garrison left in 1774, leaving behind the accepted marks and signs of continued sovereignty. Sovereignty was niether lost nor abandoned.
4) Argentina did not send a garrison to the islands until 1832. Vernett's settlement had British permission and was therefore 'British'. Jewett's actions are irrelevant.
5) Vernett reported to Britain. He was not Argentina's man although he was probably playing the two sides off against each other.
6) The Lexington dealt with Vernett's settlers. It dealt with some of them for 'piracy' as no-one acknowledged Argentina's sovereignty over the islands.
7) When the Clio arrived less that 50% of the population had been born in Argentina. The Clio had been sent to reassert British authority because Vernett had exceeded the extent of his British permit in his dealings with the American sealers and Britain was embarrassed by that.
8) Uti Possidetis Juris was not proclaimed in South America until 1848, and not recognised internationally until after 1945. It remains controversial and does not affect the Falkland Islands.
CONCLUSIONS
1) The UK has had a right of sovereignty dating back to 1765 which preceeds Spain's. British sovereignty has never been abandoned or lost.
2) The UK has rightly used force or the threat of force to maintain our sovereignty - in 1771, 1833 and 1982.
3) The UK does not acknowledge Argentina's claim.
4) The islanders are now protected by the UN Charter which gives ALL peoples the right to self determination.
5) Argentina is not renowned for showing any 'understanding' at all!
6) The Falkland Islander's do not have to ask for sovereignty - THEY ALREADY HAVE IT!
Not happy? Take it to the ICJ. Oh. but you can't. Your version of history is wrong !
@68 Gotey,
Jun 24th, 2011 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0How wrong you are.
The trouble with you malvinistas, is that you cannot bear to be wrong,cannot bear to lose.
You will lie and twist history just to “save face”.
Well you had better get used to losing this one, for you will never get the Falklands. You've never owned them & you never will.
@69 Redhoyt,
ln a previous posting, sr Think said that they would take the case to the ICJ when all the judges were sympathetic to their ridiculous claims.
So they cannot do anything without corruption.
lt shows that they know that their“claim”will not stand up to scrutiny.
Still its fun to stir them up.
#68 Gotey
Jun 24th, 2011 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“6- Argentina will accept ANYTHING the Islanders ask to keep their lifestyles and socio-economic standards, BUT NOT SOVEREIGNTY.”
Hang on... Argentina has been banging on about Britain refusing to negotiate on Sovereignty... yet her you say Argentina doesn't want to negotiate sovereignty... just how confused are you????
Brit cat: Let see,the worlds 10 best city to travel:
Jun 24th, 2011 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0T+L's 10 best cities in the world are:
1.Bangkok
2.Buenos Aires
3.Cape Town
4.Sydney
5.Florence
6.Cuzco (Peru)
7.Rome
8.New York
9.Istanbul
10.San Francisco
Ohhh Buenos Aires is in the second place,above Florence,Italy....
http://www.gadling.com/2008/07/10/em-travel-leisure-em-bangkok-is-the-worlds-best-city/
10 Worst Cities
Mumbai
Dubai
Liverpool & Manchester
Any American Suburb
Guatemala City
Sao Paulo
Beijing
Singapore
Milan
Cancun
Liverpool and Manchester......
http://www.gadling.com/2008/07/10/em-travel-leisure-em-bangkok-is-the-worlds-best-city/
Buenos Aires is beautiful!1
Colon the best acoustic in the world for Lyrics,second for Chamber music
The Teatro Colón (Spanish) (Columbus Theatre) is the main opera house in Buenos Aires, Argentina, acousticly considered to be amongst the five best concert venues in the world.[1]
http://www.gadling.com/2008/07/10/em-travel-leisure-em-bangkok-is-the-worlds-best-city/
Enjoy Buenos Aires,britcat
@Tte Estevez
Jun 24th, 2011 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And not any mention about London even among the worst?
: )
Well, I know Bangkok ... and it's a sh*t hole!
Jun 24th, 2011 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Liverpool and Manchester?
Jun 24th, 2011 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can't have been a very good survey then, they missed out Falkirk and Coventry.
Beats that shithole Bounes Airies hands down
Jun 24th, 2011 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.southamericaportreviews.com/PortStanley.htm
Port Stanley, Falkland Island is the smallest, most remote capital city in the world. This very British island was invaded by Argentina in 1982, but a counter-invasion by Britain led to reclamation of the island within 3 months. Its’ pubs, neat gardens, British ‘bobbies’, red mailboxes and the Union flag flown over the Government House leave no doubt that British roots run deep. This very unique port is built on the north facing slope of the island to catch the sun year round and overlooks Stanley Harbour. Houses with brightly corrugated metal roofs dot the hillside and are a striking contrast to the surrounding countryside. The residents are extremely hospitable as they welcome you to this very isolated, but not insular, part of the world.
After reading these posts for quite some time, I sense everyone is pretty angry about it. It looks as if time is running out before a showdown. It is heading that way...isn't it?
Jun 24th, 2011 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As an american, I can say to the British...send the bloody fleet around the Falklands and say to the Argies...come and get them.
To Argentina, I could say substantially build your arm forces and play an economic and military cold war.
To the islanders,....don't stop believing ...there is always hope!
Then...did we really solve anything?
Cheers
68 Gotey (#)
Jun 24th, 2011 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 01765: Spain existed and had a treaty with the UK, the Treaty of Utretch signed in 1713.
In 1648 Spain signed the Treaty of Münster recognising Dutch independence. In that treay Spain recognised that its territory consisted only of the places it held, and not the whole of the Americas except for the Portuguese part.
Article V:
“the said Lords the King and States, respectively, shall remain in possession of and enjoy such lordships, towns, castles, fortresses, commerce and countries of the East and West Indies, as well as of Brazil, and on the coasts of Asia, Africa, and America, respectively, which the said Lords the King and States, respectively, hold and possess, ”
Spain did not hold the Falklands in 1648
In the treaty of Utrecht 1713
Article VIII again establishes freedom of navigation as it was during the reign of the Spanish King, Charles II (the treaties of 1667 and 1670 were during the reign of Charles II) and says Spanish dominions should be returned to the state they were during his rule. Spain exercised no dominion over the Falklands during his rule.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35496118/The-Treaties-That-Were-Not-Broken
Spain did not begin to relinquish any of its territories in the Americas until 1836 and no cession of the Spanish claim to Argentina ever happened.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35496118/The-Treaties-That-Were-Not-Broken
There was no uti possidetis juris in international law during the 19th century
evolution of uti possidetis juris:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35496118/The-Treaties-That-Were-Not-Broken
(from page 8)
Argentina achieved its independence through secession
How international law works regarding secession:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35496118/The-Treaties-That-Were-Not-Broken
See the last paragraph. Argentina never established effective control over the Falklands
Port Stanley, Falkland Island is the smallest, most remote capital city in the world. This very British island was invaded by Argentina in 1982, but a counter-invasion by Britain led to reclamation of the island within 3 months. Its’ pubs, neat gardens, British ‘bobbies’, red mailboxes and the Union flag flown over the Government House leave no doubt that British roots run deep. This very unique port is built on the north
Jun 25th, 2011 - 03:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0No problem,for Argentina the 3rd is the winner.Will go to london this time....
Err 1771 the Spanish lost, 1833 the Argentines lost and 1982 .... the Argentines lost again! Be careful if you try again little SiEster, next time it may just be easier to blow BA off the map!
Jun 25th, 2011 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@80Redhoyt,
Jun 25th, 2011 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0lt would stop their continual whining anyway.
Can we stop blowing up capitals already ?
Jun 25th, 2011 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will go to london this time,,,,,,,,,,
Jun 25th, 2011 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And we would be very pleased to see you,
We will have the ambulances ready and extra food and water, for the unfortunate ones that manage to survive such an arduous trip in thousands of rowing boats,
You might even get your selves mentioned in the papers,
But i don’t think you will be in any condition to do any fighting .
You might even get your selves mentioned in the papers,
Jun 26th, 2011 - 04:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0But i don’t think you will be in any condition to do any fighting
Don't bet on that ,briton.......
Think:But....... Who are those two “researchers”…..?
Who are those two gentlemen…..?
Who are those two…..?
On the other side,an eminence in International Law,Rudolf Dolzer,which consider the Argentine claim, a better one(sorry david,try another better lie)
http://www.mocomila.org/about/members_list/rudolf_dolzer.htm
Dolzer has made mistakes, and they have been pointed out to him with the evidence that supports them. Since Pascoe & Pepper's paper, your Snr Dolzer has remained very quiet!
Jun 26th, 2011 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0After all he was on the 'committee' that made the presentation in London, and it was in reply to that group that Pascoe & Pepper put together their paper. Nothing in rebuttal has come back since.
I suspect your eminent Dolzer has found himself in a hole :-)
Just like the old Argy minister went quiet after having a little exchange of words with Pascoe & Pepper on here.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't see a final rebuttal from him either.
Dolzer has made mistakes, and they have been pointed out to him with the evidence that supports them. Since Pascoe & Pepper's paper, your Snr Dolzer has remained very quiet!
Jun 26th, 2011 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dolzer has made mistakes, and they have been pointed out to him with the evidence that supports them. Since Pascoe & Pepper's paper, your Snr Dolzer has remained very quiet!
Shure, The 2 clown salt & pepper were invited to the university of Buenos Aires,they have never showed up.
Why do not go with them to e UN? Their “arguments” are SOOOOO GOOOD!!
Simple: The have no Credible arguments. Is what we call in Argentina:“Chantas”,(charlatans)
Really,zethe? Why they do not go the the C24?Take them!!!!
They are NOOOObody!!!
“ ... The 2 clown salt & pepper were invited to the university of Buenos Aires,they have never showed up...”
Jun 26th, 2011 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And your evidence is ?
Dolzer and ? versus Pascoe & pepper .... sounds good. I like a straight fight. When and where ? P&P - you listening ??
“Why do not go with them to e UN? Their “arguments” are SOOOOO GOOOD!!”
Jun 26th, 2011 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you lack understanding of that the UN is. It's not just a place you go for a quick chat when you feel like it.
We have elected representatives who go to the UN to present the case on behalf of the people of the Falkland Islands, and they do it very well. Pascoe and Pepper are historians that have done an excellent job, but they ARE NOT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN in the pay of FIG or UK governments to conduct their research. Whilst Pascoe and Peppers research into the history of the Falkland Islands is very convincingly in favour of UK sovereignty because of historical arguments, many people of the Falklands believe that the self-determination arguments (UN principle) weighs stronger in any case, and so this is worth putting first. We can argue until the cows come home about whether 1833 is important or not, many people believe it isn't relevant anymore, because of the 1850 agreement, and also because Argentina did not do anything about it until it revived it again for nationalistic purposes in Peron's time, but it is a long time ago, and in any case self-determination is a fundamental principle. So, whatever the case what people here believe and want counts stronger, and you can guess what that is: No change to the status quo for now! .
Jun 26th, 2011 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0think you lack understanding of that the UN is. It's not just a place you go for a quick chat when you feel like it.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure!! Bet us in court!!
You have “strong” arguments......
UN,UNASUR,OAS,think otherwise...
Let it see,how well you are doing at the C24:
“By the terms of the text, introduced by Chile’s representative, the Special Committee regretted that, despite widespread international support for negotiations between Argentina and the United Kingdom, which included all aspects of the Islands’ future, longstanding General Assembly resolutions on that question had not been implemented. The parties were requested to consolidate the current “process of dialogue and cooperation” by resuming negotiations in order to find, as soon as possible, a peaceful solution to their sovereignty dispute.
Imploring the Special Committee not to adopt the resolution as presented, Roger Edwards, an elected official of the Legislative Assembly of the Falkland Islands, and one of several petitioners to take the floor on the issue, pointed out that the text had been drafted without a reference to the wishes of the Falkland people and their fundamental right to self-determination.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/gacol3...
So Isolde,r Edwards,is ”imploring“...
What happens with thos”Powerfull“ arguments?
Take,salt&pepper,and david and justin,ladybug and everyone you wish.........
You Are Looosing!!
Every year,each IN resolution,favor Argentina,more and more..
Do not waste time here!!
Next meeting is coming soon,at the UN....
Go there and explain those ”argument”(secret weapon),you said you have.......
Implore them.......,like roger did....
We have elected representatives who go to the UN to present the case on behalf of the people of the Falkland Islands, and they do it very well. Pascoe and Pepper are historians that have done an excellent job, but they ARE NOT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN in the pay of FIG or UK governments to conduct their research. Whilst Pascoe and Peppers research into the history of the Falkland Islands is very convincingly in favour of UK sovereignty because of historical arguments, many people of the Falklands believe that the self-determination arguments (UN principle) weighs stronger in any case, and so this is worth putting first. We can argue until the cows come home about whether 1833 is important or not, many people believe it isn't relevant anymore, because of the 1850 agreement, and also because Argentina did not do anything about it until it revived it again for nationalistic purposes in Peron's time, but it is a long time ago, and in any case self-determination is a fundamental principle. So, whatever the case what people here believe and want counts stronger, and you can guess what that is: No change to the status quo for now! .
Jun 26th, 2011 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You Are Looosing!!”
Jun 26th, 2011 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing's changed.
Really,why the malvinenses are begginimploring,if they are winners?speaking,that is the truth........
Jun 26th, 2011 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really the brits,sucks......
MLA Edwards is imploring the C24 NOT to sign the draft resolution because it does not mention the Islanders nor their rights to self-determination. So the resolution is rubbish. But trying to make these people commit to their own founding principles seems to be difficult. No wonder Gibraltar has finally decided not to bother anymore with them.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure,jojo,Why he does not take one of these pro, to help him and convince them of theirs rigths.....
Jun 26th, 2011 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take, justin,isolde,david,ladybug,salt& pepper......
I think the malvinenses are pathetic.....They were taken by force and by force shall be taken....
“Really,why the malvinenses are begginimploring,if they are winners?speaking,that is the truth”
Jun 26th, 2011 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's Argentine whining at every media covered event about the islands. the UK has hardly mentioned this at all apart from “it's not negotiable”.
(92) JoJo
Jun 26th, 2011 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me correct some of your misconceptions :
1) Mr. Pascoe & Mr. Pepper are not ”Historians”
2) Mr. Pascoe & Mr. Pepper are indeed financed by the Malvinas Squidocracy.
3) The UN principle of self-determination applies to ”Peoples”
4) Malvinas people are not a “People”; they are a bunch of British squatters.
As usual, when they cannot defeat the argument, they attack the person.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To correct El Thicko
1.) Pascoe and Pepper are historians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian
A historian is an individual who studies and writes about history, and is regarded as an authority on it
2.) Neither receive any money from the Falklands Squidocracy. Your proof? Oh, as usual missing in action, can't defeat the man, try and diminish their work with smears and innuendo.
3.) The principle of self-determination
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historian
All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
4.) The Falklanders are a people, you can deny their identity in your usual spiteful, racist way but they are.
Squatters?
The islands were uninhabited.
But, Argentina invaded and stole the land of the native peoples of Patagonia, the only people I see squatting in anyone's land is Argentina. Go on home ya bums.
What a pity, I was going to answer Think on his four points, but justine has beaten me to it. I agree wholeheartily.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the issue whether P&P are historians, along the same line of Think's reasoning, So-called Dr. Bingham therefor does not qualify either as a biologist, and can therefor not speak on the presumed causes of penguin mortality. But never mind, this will probably also be lost on you.
99 JustinKuntz:
Jun 26th, 2011 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was also about to refer to the definition of the word.
“A historian is an individual who studies and writes about history, and is regarded as an authority on it.”
The second part. The British government has has it's offical history changed due to inaccuracies shown by Pascoe & Mr. Pepper, therefore are by the DEFINITION of the word, historians.
Also:
Jun 26th, 2011 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”3) The UN principle of self-determination applies to ”Peoples”
4) Malvinas people are not a “People”; they are a bunch of British squatters.“
The definiton of people:
People is a plurality of human beings or other beings possessing enough qualities constituting personhood
If you have another definiton of ”peoples” that the islanders do not qualify for i'd be really happy to see this. Untill then, you're just chatting rubbish, think.
@91Tte Estevez,
Jun 26th, 2011 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And how would you describe a“peaceful solution”to our sovereignty dispute? What would be the “solution”?
@98Think,
You, dear little Think are not qualified to make a statement about squatters, since you are in fact a squatter yourself.
A Patagonian Squatter.
Oh you were born in Patagonia, funny that, the Falklanders were born on their land too.
Should Argentina ever get the cojones to take their claim to the ICJ the question to be put before the court is unlikely to be about 1833. Far more likely that the question will centre on the Falkland Islander's right to self determination as defined by the UN Charter and the Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
Jun 26th, 2011 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina tries to convince everyone else that the islander's are not a 'people'. But that is not what it says in the Charter and Covenant. When a law comes up for interpretation by a court, the court looks at the plain meaning of the words. Not one country's belated attempt to twist those words.
Another desperate attempt to fudge international law Think ? It won't work :-)
”On the other side,an eminence in International Law,Rudolf Dolzer,which consider the Argentine claim, a better one(sorry david,try another better lie)
Jun 27th, 2011 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0www.mocomila.org/about/members_list/rudolf_dolzer.htm”
84 Tte Estevez (and Think and others)
Where in my message No 78 and the links therein do I make any reference to Pascoe and Pepper?
You call me a liar, yet are incapable of providing any evidence to show what I posted is not true.
To your Dolzer I counter with
http://www.paulhensel.org/vita.html
http://www.paulhensel.org/vita.html
for the link on uti possidetis
http://www.paulhensel.org/vita.html
for the link on secession
No good asking Think for evidence. He doesn't do evidence. A first generation, slavish convert to the religion of Argentinism he'll follow to the death the words of the prophets Kirchner, regardless of the truth of the matter.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights -
Part 1 (Article 1) recognises the right of all peoples to self-determination, including the right to “freely determine their political status”, pursue their economic, social and cultural goals, and manage and dispose of their own resources. It recognises a negative right of a people not to be deprived of its means of subsistence, and imposes an obligation on those parties still responsible for non-self governing and trust territories (colonies) to encourage and respect their self-determination.
The Falkland Islander's are a 'people', both Falkland's People and British People. The latter for as long as they wish it.
Nothing Argentina can do!!
TWIMC
Jun 27th, 2011 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Pepper & Mr. Pascoe, self appointed “Historians” that have produced 1 (one) publication in their “long and fructiferous” professional career.
Both ex employees of FIG and/or the Falkland Islands Association.
Both omnipresent at every British organized Malvinas event, as sherpas, photographers and even serving the drinks :-)))
Ps:
Mr. Redhoyt
The meaning of the word ”People” has been considered, twisted, analyzed, bend, interpreted and infered in the United Nation for more than sixty years.
Nowadays, there is quite a consensus in the UN of what constitutes a “People”.
The Falkland Islander's are indeed a 'People';………………… British People.
Not less, not more……………
They are a British people, one of many British peoples:
Jun 27th, 2011 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The English, the Scots, the Welsh, the Northern Irish
the Manx, the Jersey Islanders, the Guernsey Islanders
the Anguillians, the Bermudians, the British Virgin Islanders, the Caymanians, the Falkland Islanders, the Gibraltarians, the Montserratians, the Pitcairners, the St Helenians, the Tristanians, and the Turks and Caicos Islanders.
And still attacking the messenger and incapable of refuting the message.
So what if they have only written one publication. Its quality that matters, not quantity. Instead of complaining about P&P's status or background or qualifications, why not give them the credit they deserve and contradict their arguments with proven facts. Well I know the answer to that Think...
Jun 27th, 2011 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are not ex-employees of FIG, nor in the the pay of either FIG or FI Association. Perhaps you should do some 'research' yourself and find out what this FIA does. It certainly does not 'employ' historians!
So what if they are present at each event relevant to the Falkland Islands. They share a belief that the Falklanders have a right to decide and shape their own future. Perhaps you should go to some of these events and have a chat with them.
People...you're grasping at straws now. Falklands are British. But I must commend you on softening your tone. At least you use the word Falkland Island
BTW what are Argentines? Italians, Spanish, German, Dutch, British, + numerous other immigrant nations, and a few indigenous tribes, whom have mostly been exterminated. Perhaps along the same lines you should recognize that you Think are 'import' and as such not qualified to speak for the real Argentines.
(108) dab14763
Jun 27th, 2011 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
”And still attacking the messenger and incapable of refuting the message.”
I say:
What messengers…..?
Mr. Pepper& Mr. Pascoe….?
They are no messengers….!
They are hired hands to further the British point of view.
Their paper has nothing to do with history, fairness or impartiality.
BTW…….. You never accounted for the 100 soles I won from you in our bet about the election result in Perú, your alleged country of residence…………………………
Very, very ungentlemanly!
They are hired hands to further the British point of view.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...proof?
Should I go into time stasis?...I still want to be youthful enough to piss myself laughing at your answer....
“Their paper has nothing to do with history, fairness or impartiality.”
Jun 27th, 2011 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another great statement from Think. Why don't you start by explaining to us why you believe this, because so far I have not seen a single shred of evidence from you against their arguments.
But then, what can I expect, you never come up with replies, just choosing some words from replies here to completely unhook. Did they not teach you at school to focus on content? Guess not....Ah, I know the answer: Think is a product of the wonderful Argentine schooling system. renowned all over the world :)
(112) JoJo
Jun 27th, 2011 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Lad….. You seem to have all the answers…. evidentlyyou don’t need (to) Think
”109 JoJo
Well I know the answer to that Think...”
”112 JoJo
”Ah, I know the answer: Think is a ….”
REDHOYT. ZETHE. J. A. ROBERT.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If self determination is the paramount, then ¿why the malvinas cause is still considered like a special case?, ¿why the decolonization committee doesn't apply once and for all that principle for this cause, like it did with others colonial situations?, i respect your opinions, and i hold one more time that all those arguments will always be open to diferent postures, but as long as the decolonization committee doesen't apply self determination for the population from the islands, and continues calling both countries to find a peaceful solution, argentina will be able to keep on claiming for the malvinas, and the resolutions must be respected.
Respecting the fair solution that i argue all the time, i think that the islands can become into an argentine-british protectorate, both nations would give defence to the archipelago, and the three governemnts would agree to explote the recources, but the islanders will remain their economic policy, their constitution, they will have trade relations with whoever they want etc etc.
If you have any other better idea, that satisfies the three parts of the conflict, propose it.
Axel, the Falklands is not a special case, Argentina may claim it is is but it isn't. And on what basis should Argentina have a role in the Falklands or in the exploitation of resources in the islands. You were given the opportunity to do so but seem to forget you tore up those agreements.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fair solution? Where Argentina gets what it wants and the Falkland Islanders get to watch while you take their resources? Mmmm.
I see El Thicko continues with smears and innuendo but seriously lacking in proof.
Tte Estevez (and Think and others)
Jun 27th, 2011 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where in my message No 78 and the links therein do I make any reference to Pascoe and Pepper?
Let it see,david:Shadow,stll waiting your answer:David, queres presentar un caso de uti possidetis con el tratado Arana-Southern, el cual no tiene nada que ver con Malvinas, colocando a las islas como territorio de conquista, lo irónico es que según ustedes no es un botín de guerra, y solo basta remontarse a Parish que en 1831 al elevar la protesta formal a Guido habla de los derechos de soberanía de su majestad Británica.
¿Entendes el significado implícito de lo que estas citando?
Nada más ni nada menos estas diciendo que el titulo presentado por Gran Bretaña en la ocupación de las islas es simplemente la conquista y el uso de la fuerza sobre el vencido.
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/falkland-islands/TR0KI67QOU0O96MB3/p4
Those links again are: Political scientist,etc...none of them are international jurist.......
the uk has NO LEGAL rigth,only the force.......No good enough in LAw....
113 Think, you have proven my point: there never is any substance to your mails. Dialogue does not exist in your dictionary.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, I have a better idea. respect the wishes of the Falkland Islanders and treat us like neighbours as we deserve. In time all sorts of things can and may happen, but not while the current Argentine government behaves and acts as it does
Axel - the Falklands in NOT considered a 'special case'.
Jun 27th, 2011 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your Government twists the words of the UN and tries to portray the islands as such. However, let me refer you to a Fourth Committee decision in October 2008 which specifically excluded the words “...and where there is no dispute over sovereignty...”. (GA/SPD/406 )
The fourth committee voted against that sentence on the basis that, “ ...in the process of decolonization, there was no alternative to the principle of self-determination, which was also a fundamental human right....” and “ ..The right to self-determination was enshrined in the Charter without qualification and was a fundamental principle of international law.... ”
No alternative Axel. Without qualification. The OVERIDING principle is 'self determination'.
Now go back and look at the Resolutions from the UN General Assembly. Look at the Resolutions as forwarded from the Fourth Committee and show me which Resolution/Draft Resolution makes the Falklands 'special'. Don't bother me with Draft Resolutions from the C-24. They have no meaning and carry no weight whatsoever.
There will be NO joint sovereignty because the people of the sialnds do not want it. And they are FULLY supported by the UN.
And you'll find another quote at the end of the debate in 2008 - “ the representative of Argentina restated his support for the decolonization process and to bringing an end to colonialism in any form. The principle of self-determination was a fundamental human right which applied in all cases where people were subjugated to a colonial power. He hoped those issues would be addressed in regions where sovereignty disputes did exist and wished to recall that Argentina did not share or agree with the proposed amendment ...”
Still got work to do Axle :-)
Axel, when I wake up in the morning, I don't ask myself whether Uti possetis is applicable to the ground beneath me or whether the right to vote for a government of my choosing is affected by events of 1833. I don't ask myself whether there is a “special case” that overrides my other rights. Nor do I feel like I'm maintaining the British Empire. I just feel satisfied that I'm living my unique, chosen lifestyle, which is inextricably linked to the Falklands.
Jun 28th, 2011 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few thoughts: Argentina consider the islanders to be British. Argentina also wants to negotiate sovereignty with Britain, but won't negotiate with the islanders...?
Argentina insists that the issue is one of sovereignty only, and is a bilateral issue. They shouldn't really be bringing it up at the C24, then. No Argentines are under subjugation.
If the Falklands became independent, then immediately voted for free association with the UK, would Argentina accept that?
For the vast majority of Argentines, life would not change at all if the Islands became Argentine. However, life would change for the islanders. Please think about that before you try to tell me what is best for me, what rights I do or do not have, I'm not saying that life would be unbearable, but there would be a change. One that we do not want, but that you want. Is your desire for a change more right than my desire for no change?
Think - “ ... The meaning of the word ”People” has been considered, twisted, analyzed, bend, interpreted and infered in the United Nation for more than sixty years....”
Jun 28th, 2011 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yup ... and the majority of Diplomats/Politicians are Lawyers by trade. Drawn to it because twisting, bending and interpreting is what lawyers do. Mr Dolzer for example, is not an historian ... he's a lawyer. But then you knew that.
And of course the British People ... even just a part of the British Peoples, are also entitled to self determination.
Why don't you (and Argentina) just come out and admit it. The claim by Argentina has nothing to do with history, nothing to do with human rights or international law. It is merely Geopolitical.
You don't want a power like the UK sitting near you. Makes you feel uncomfortable and you know that it gives us an advantage come the Antarctic War! And you'd like the oil too of course. At least Geopolitics is honest. As honest as politics gets at any rate!
SiEster - “ ...No good enough in LAw....”
How would you know? Your country has never taken its spurious case to Law !
Why doesn't England come out and admit it, your claim has nothing to do with “self-determination”.................. it's about fear for the future, fear of not having enough. It's about being a tiny country filled to the brim with 50 million people.
Jun 28th, 2011 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Deep down you know this is true.
No Marian.... it's really about self-determination.
Jun 28th, 2011 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting article that suggests that the islanders will eventually become independent, ie they will exercise their right to determine their own future.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-28/oil-hopes-stoke-falklands-shift-away-from-loyal-shrine-to-england-travel.html
47 NicoDin ... another view of Buenos Aires and the desperate lives many people have been living for years even after the Kirchners' corrupt and wastfeful boom years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVe4JXXbPuI
Jun 28th, 2011 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Snigger....hello Martin :)
Jun 28th, 2011 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.flickr.com/groups/malvinas/discuss/72157626861860785/
Desperate words from an ever more desperate government.
Jun 28th, 2011 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is seriously running out of options and time .??
#121: Ah... the good old fallback of “My country's better than yours”. Everyone takes part. Including me. I have before me an empty packet of Tirabuzon 'nutrihierro', Favorita brand, expiry date 06/04/12. The blurb on the back says: “La desnutrition infantil es un problema que afecta hoy a la Argentina.” (“Infant malnutrition is a problem that affects Argentina today.”) For a country with such a low population density and so many resources, there still seem to be deficiencies. I reckon empty pasta packets beat the hell out of Utube as a source of evidence.
Jun 28th, 2011 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't see any sign of the supposed 50 million others I share my county with, Martin. In fact, I believe only Greenland has more land area/person than the territory I live in. Might be wrong though.
I think it was NicoDin tried to tell me I'd be better off living in an apartment building in B.A. How's the US? Crowded?
Ah,, the my dad’s bigger than your dad, syndrome
Jun 29th, 2011 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0our aircraft carrier is bigger than yours, [if you have one]
mmmm desperate words from even more desperate, rats, mmmm
“¿why the malvinas cause is still considered like a special case?”
Jun 30th, 2011 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really? Are they? Please show me the UN resolution which makes the Falklands a “Special Case” (whatever that means), and show me how that limits any international rights the Falkland Islanders have.
REDHOYT. J. A. ROBERT. STAKEHOLDER. JUSTIN KUNTZ.
Jun 30th, 2011 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suggets you to read the statement by norma edwards of june 24 of 2010, where she complains before the decolonization committee because the malvinas cause is still considered like a special case, and asked that institution that it must apply self determination for the people from the islands, search in the archive of this web site. I read all the statement of all the representants of the l c. from the islands.
If there is not any other alternative than self determination to finish with this conflict, then i hope that the next resolution applies that principle for this cause, there is nothing that i respect more than the laws, when i read that resolution, i will recognize that my country will have lost the chance of claiming for the island, because it's obviuos that the islanders wont never choose to be part fo argentina, on the other hand, i suggest you to read too, the statement of timerman before the decolonization committee, there are many important points that you should take into account, you can find it in the web site of cancilleria, it' s written only in spanish, but maybe you can translate it with the google.
Finally i ask you not to be so idiots, we dont want to subude the islanders in absolut, only an ignorant can argue that, what we are asking you, is to negotiate a peaceful solution, in a negotiation, it's absolutly posible to find a solution that benefits both parts of the conflict, NEGOTIATION IS NOT SUBMITION, please learn it once ad for all, and dont keep on using that cheap, mendacious and ignorant argument, to reject to resume the negotiations with my country.
I know that i dont answer your comments so quicly, actualy i have so much work and i dont have much time to get into this website everyday.
A statement by Norma Edwards, or anyone else for that matter is not a UN Resolution Axel.
Jun 30th, 2011 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please show us the UN Resolution which makes the Falklands a “Special Case”.
I agree with you in some ways Axel. Everyone has, at one time or another, used cheap arguments when it suits them. But I disagree with you about negotiation. Your point of view is fine if you ignore the islanders and do not consider them to have any say in the matter (which is what Argentina is doing).
Jun 30th, 2011 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at Israeli settlers when they are ordered out of their homes by the Israeli authorities. Do they accept the decision taken by their own courts and leave quietly? I'm not supporting them, just pointing out that if you think the issue will be solved by negotiating with the UK, not the Falklands, the islanders' wishes would be ignored to satisfy your wishes.
The Argentine view seems to be that any wrong that was done in the early 1800s overrides the wishes of the islanders today. This view is based on conviction that Argentina's case is right. If you believe strongly that you are right, it is easy to convince yourself that everyone with a different view is wrong.
I think you do not fully understand that the islanders do not want to be under Argentine rule, or at the very least, you do not understand why we don't want to be. You do not want to subdue us but, if we became Argentine, it would be strongly against our wishes, a form of subduing.
I think I understand that you just want 'your' islands. But if this happens, you might be a bit happier, that's all. At best, I would be seriously unhappy. The “original inhabitants” will have been dead for about 150 years and won't care.
If you still do not understand that we make our own decisions and are not ruled with an iron fist from London, you should visit the islands. Once you have done that, you can decide for yourself whether we should be allowed a say in the matter.
A serious question: why is regaining the islands so important to you?
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