MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
The unthinkable has happened: S&P downgrades the US credit rating
One of the top credit rating agencies, Standard & Poor's, has downgraded the United States' top-notch AAA rating for the first time ever. S&P cut the long-term US rating by one notch to AA+ with a negative outlook, citing concerns about budget deficits. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTWIMC (Re-Posted)
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0The next months and years will be interesting indeed…………………......................
As the “First Word Peoples” can sit and stare at the Rating Agencies, the IMF, the Banks and the Hedgefonds upholding their speculative economic principles, shoveling money in their coffers and paying immorally high bonuses to themselves whilst forcing extreme austerity measures on normal people.
High time for the “First World Peoples and their Political Leaders” to curtail the powers of the Rating Agencies, the IMF, the Hedgefonds and the Big-Banks.
Fact is that, at least, 80% of all currency circulating in the world is not sustained by any physical value…....................................
It’s speculative paper money, sustained only by the trust of the people....
And people are losing trust..............
Argentina’s example could be quite useful here.
We were forced to do it some 10 years ago, and it works……
Out went:
Indebtment.
Financial bubbles.
Speculative economics.
In came:
Real jobs.
Real products.
Real economics.
Think - why do you feel the need to repost? Hang on, is not Argentina rapidly increasing public sector pay to mitigate against the effects of an actual inflation rate that it refuses to officially recognize; and is doing so with intangible pieces of paper?
Aug 06th, 2011 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0While it still owes a huge amount of money that it not actually repaying? No wonder Angola has a higher credit rating than Argentina!
Your posts is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black!
I don't know that the downgrade is 'unthinkable'. It is most likely a rap on the knuckles for the politcians acting like arses and holding the world's economy to ransom whilst squabbling like children.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0We should also note that this same ratings agency gave a AAA rating to the sub-prime market and said the Iceland economy was nothing to worry about. Just sayin'.
Though the S&P statement did mention the fact that US policy-making is becoming less efficient and less predictable, it also questioned whether the spending cuts will be sufficient to stabilize debt growth vis-à-vis GDP.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0we need the friends from Argentina...UK to discuss somethings
Aug 06th, 2011 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0seriously !
we need some other friends India,China,Japan,Middle East,Africa
Soviet Area... to discuss some subjects deeply !
TWIMC (and Mr. Beef)
Aug 06th, 2011 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 01) The Argentinean default of 2001 has been, long ago, duly restructured, renegotiated and “hair-cutted in full agreement with about 97% of our creditors.
2) The current Argentinean foreign debt is being duly paid with real money, product of real economical activities of a productive sector.
3) The current Argentinean inflation of about 20% a year is a significant challenge but far from the apocalyptic factor some turnips want to assign to it.
4) The current Argentinean low credit ratings by the American Rating Agencies are the best defense against further indebtment and speculative capitals. I truly hope they keep being as low in the next many years!
5) The current heterodox Argentinean economical policies are being observed and commended by a significant number of influential economists all over the world.
6) The current economical meetings taking place these days all over South-America are looking at many of the above mentioned Argentinean national economic policies and adapting them to the be used as South-American Supra-national economic policies.
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/08/06/unasur-central-bankers-anticipate-moderation-in-the-region-s-growth
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/08/06/unasur-central-bankers-anticipate-moderation-in-the-region-s-growth
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/08/06/unasur-central-bankers-anticipate-moderation-in-the-region-s-growth
[]- 6
Aug 06th, 2011 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0here is the classic avarage internet comment !
2) ,3) are wrong
4) personal but good point
1), 5) ,6) are odds and ends.
and the argie bloggers jump up and down with joy,
Aug 06th, 2011 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0deluded with happyness,
lets hope for your sakes that the[west] does not collappes
for if it ever did [and it wont]
it would knock the smile of your face, pronto .
It is true that if the only superpower collapses (and I don't believe the world can let that happen) there is not a country that will not be affected by it. Be careful what you wish for.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[]- 8
Aug 06th, 2011 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there are no any Argie posters at Mercopress forums !
In the case the US breaks and takes a lot of big bank chains with it, Latin America would do better than most other regions as result of inward-looking economies and relatively low public and external debt.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[]- 11
Aug 06th, 2011 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not easy ! you are heavily depend on commodity price fluctuations.
fr.exm./. soy bean price lower 1,33 from the past year 1,37
...copper has same ....
@geo
Aug 06th, 2011 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except for Venezuela and Bolivia, and perhaps Ecuador, South American countries have either very small current account supluses (Argentina, Chile) or even current account deficits (Peru, Brazil, Colombia). This means external trade either doesn't contribute to growth or even hampers it. Take the results for GDP growth in Brazil during the first quater of 2011. According to the official statistics agency GDP grew 4.2% over the same period of 2010, with consumption growing 5.9% and investment 8.8%. Net exports, on the other hand, fell 8.8% due to a 13% rise in imports.* And the story throughout much of South America is the sme: consumption and investment are the sole engines of economic growth. The “commodities boom” is a media catchphrase that mostly doesn't match reality.
*http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/presidencia/noticias/noticia_visualiza.php?id_noticia=1891&id_pagina=1&titulo=PIB-cresce-1,3%-em-relacao-ao-trimestre-anterior-e-chega-a-R$-939,6-bilhoes
By the way, S&P published a paper supporting my point, that the importance attributed to the commodities exports sector is exaggerated when one takes a look at the numbers.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Within the region, consumption remains the critical engine of growth from the perspective of aggregate demand. In some countries, such as Peru and Brazil, investment has also started to play a more dominant role. This is one of the main differences between Latin America and Asia. For the latter, net export growth remains a key engine for the region's economic development. In China, in particular, despite the importance of domestic components, net exports still contribute significantly to GDP growth. Conversely, in Brazil, net exports only made a positive contribution to GDP until 2005.”
http://www.standardandpoors.com/ratings/articles/en/us/?assetID=1245235076044
Think - do not talk down the significance of your inflation rate. If it wasn't a major concern then why does your government go out of it's way to lie about it (and don't claim that they don't because even an ideologically blind individual like you know that they do)?
Aug 06th, 2011 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Such an inflation rate can undo all that supposed good work and benefits you have accumulated. Strong economic growth is completely undone by such rampant inflation. China is aware of that so it has constrained money supply. Problem is that by placating public sector employees by raising wages so much to mitigate such inflation only has the effect of maintaining such inflationary pressure. As a result the poorest in Argentina get left further behind and how do they then benefit from economic growth?
If that is socialism then thank god I am a capitalist!
Mr. Beef
Aug 06th, 2011 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’ll repeat.........:
The current Argentinean inflation of about 20% a year is a significant challenge but far from the apocalyptic factor some turnips want to assign to it.
We in Argentina have, in the past, lived through periods of 20% inflation A WEEK, so please….. Spare us for your school book definitions of inflation.
As I typed here many times, they would downgrade US rating, because they make money on it. The lower the ratings, the riskier, the more those banksters make while they know it's already JUNK and while interest rates are close to zero (that helps the speculators).
Aug 06th, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now Elaine, naive missy who still has in her head that the US (keep reading those old fairy tale books and listening to state BBC media there) is a superpower (what it's not in the real world) made a good point with that we should also note that this same ratings agency gave a AAA rating to the sub-prime market and said the Iceland economy and other collapse economies. Well, again that's their game, pump it up with those fake de, blow it up and then force to pay the debtors by selling their real hard assets. Who can pick up the status as a superpower? China is capable of doing that (they should allow their renminbi go up what improves the billions of chinese purchasing power) but is also in favor with the other bric nations (plus south africa, saudi arabia and south korea) that a multi polar world is much better. Guess what, it's happening in front of our eyes and they know that in DC, where they understand that nobody else cares about what they think.
It unthinkable/unimagineable isn't suddenly only thinkable or imagineable. It's becoming reality, but they in the US, hate it, though can do nothing about it. They are owned by foreigners and the banksters who are ready to ruin the nation while many people still watch jerseyshore (MTV), wait for the next american idol, get ready for the new NFL season, and gets ready for the new marching band music to elect a new jack out of the box with a D (Democrat) or R (Republican) on it's head.
“that is socialism then thank god I am a capitalist!”
Beef, you don't know what capitalism is, because in the UK, they neither are true capitalist, but crony-capitalist who you and many more taxpayers are bailing out directly and indirect (withQE's).
[]-13 Forget
Aug 06th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My calculation for Brasil's growth rate is [3,32% ] not [4,2%]
Some indicators are calculated by old arithmetic but there must be
need to have more complex technics...
in all Economies the contribution of investment increasing to the
growth rate is limited..in everytime.
if you ask me ,why [CPI ]is up in Brasil..then my reply to you
could be ..becouse the reason of consumption increasing...
but
the low rate of [ foreign trade /GDP] doesn not mean that
the command power can easily be transferred to the consumers and
consumption increasing ..in everytime !
Brasil Economy can not grow on high speed ...not possible !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brasil , Argentina , Peru ,Chile Economies are very different
from each other in technically....
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[]-14
S&P has contradictory analysis on Latin America at your link. !!
S&P has really knows the China indicators ??
“Brasil Economy can not grow on high speed ...not possible !”
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Describe high speed. If you compare 3-5% growth with close to zero procent growth, then 3-5% is high speed, but not high speed like china with it's 8-10% growth. Brazil isn't China, for a good reason.
#(10)
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0except me !
[]- 19 Fido
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Growth Rate is relative concept ,depends on your Economy !
..it depends on what we understand from Growth !
for instance ; in Chile Economy..the Economy is growing but
it's Manufacturing Sector is decreasing..
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China's growth rate is just 7,1% but this explains merely
it's urban areas economy ..
China's growth rate of it's rural areas economy is very different ..
my estimate is ~ 10 % in the last year ..my estimate for
2011/Q1-Q2 is ~ 6 %..
@geo
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”My calculation (...)“
The IBGE, the official statistics agency, is considered reliable and its estimates for the first quarter GDP were in line with those of private agencies. So allow me to disregard the ”calculations” of a flaky internet poster. By the way, IBGE has had a newer GDP estimation method since 2007, so I see no sense in saying the agency works with old arithmetics. As for Brazil being unable to grow at high levels, its GDP has grown faster than the the Latin American (and the world) averages since 2007. 2011 will be a moderation year mostly as a result of self-provoked cooling due to inflationary concerns.
[]- 22 Forget
Aug 06th, 2011 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IBGE ( one of my bookmarks) is merely one of the Stats Institutions
in the World .
You say, IBGE has had a newer GDP estimation method since 2007..
You must have net calculation technics not estimations..
(i said my China estimations,becouse that we have not have some
datas there)
in Economy technolgy there can't be “” expectation“” concept.
x indicator arised better than the expectations
y indicator arised worse than the expectations
these are merely speculative discourses.!
Fido - since when did I become a country? An individual is not bound to the ideology of his ruling class! I pay my tax because that is the law and my accountant deals with my tax return. I cannot change what the government does with tax money. As long as they provide a sufficient health service, an education system fit for purpose and a safety net for those that require it then we can get on with life and let the politicians do political stuff.
Aug 06th, 2011 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0since when did I become a country?
Aug 07th, 2011 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0What are you talking about. Read my comment again and you will read that I not typed that you became a country.
“As long as they provide a sufficient health service, an education system fit for purpose and a safety net...”
That's socialism, isn't it?
I read another comment from you of “long live Liberty and free trade”..something like that, and made me laugh, because it's laughable to read that from a brit with it's “Liberty”..Give me dead or Liberty is more common for the American continent, but in the UK? lol...get real.
As for the “Liberty”, I'm sure you meant for royal family who enjoys with Liberty it's feudelistic system (just like in Holland). I guess for many peasants in the UK that's “liberty”. The UK isn't a free trader, it's just a protectionist like any other European nation and blabbers “free trade”. The US should learn from the UK? That's the greatest joke you ever typed here. UK came in it the picture again when London became the so called “financial capital of the world” during the boom the finacialization of derivatives, that are now WORTHLESS. London is a junk city today with it's bogus “free trade”.
not quite true old boy and you know it,
Aug 07th, 2011 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0britain will weather the storm,
[] 24 -- [] 25
Aug 08th, 2011 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0in Economy,there are no any words like Socialism & Capitalism !
these are purely slogans !
release the real george,
Aug 08th, 2011 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you dragon you ?
Much of the liquidity brought by the placing of US Treasury Bonds (about half bought by China!!!) were used by the US to finance overseas wars, satellite defense systems, developing of armament of all kinds and, save some Obama cuts, for space exploration. I don't say this was bad, only that it was done with borrowed money and one day this uncontrolled expenditure was prone to come to an end in one way or other. The Madoff crisis gave an alert which was disowned. Now, S&P gave the US what they deserve and nothing else. Unfortunately, unless the US economy resuscitate from its grave, all free-world economies, including that of the US, will suffer to a never imagined point of less energy, less food, less homes and less social services, which will in turn dislodge the masses' temper into... I'd better not say it. Too bad, but not unexpected, isn't it?
Aug 09th, 2011 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'ts no surprise the U.S is in dire straits with a debt of over 14 trillion who can blame them the highest debt than any other country but don't
Aug 09th, 2011 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0worry Captain America will save the day.
(30) Tigre2000
Aug 09th, 2011 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Captain America” doesn't stand a chance....................
They´ll need the“Green Lantern”
[]- 29
Aug 09th, 2011 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0would we understand as ; Argie = Argentina sympathizer ?!
31 Think
Aug 09th, 2011 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes that's it and also captain fat ass and his greasy burger shield
Hi geo. Argie is an Argentine senior citizen whose simpathies not always fall to the side of the US. A reason for this is that we owe to their Navy the destruction of our Malvinas installations and ships in 1832 (the year of the Reform Act), by cannonfire, under the command of USN Captain Silas Duncan who also took as many as Argentines he could capture, aboard his frigate (USN Lexington) to deliver them in Buenos Ayres, after having sent a message to the British Consul (George Canning) advising him that the islands were free from our domination, so he can tell his king (William IV) to move fast. Then, in 1982, as you may recall, the NATO alliance helped the Brits (with our Chilean brothers) to recapture the arcipelago. You may this was too long ago, but it is question of principle rather that emotional. However, I am not against the islanders because 200 years and 5 or 6 generations have made the islands their natural home and, as you know (and I share the feeling), an Englishman's house is his castle, in the same way that my house is mine. Cheers!
Aug 09th, 2011 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[]- 34
Aug 09th, 2011 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then..the 1982 Argentine Falklands invasion attempt had been made
what for ..?
we dont know geo, you tell us,
Aug 09th, 2011 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but remember it was illigel
[] - 36
Aug 10th, 2011 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0illegal??...like as Vietnam !?...Iraq !?...Afghanistan !?
geo geo geo, being clever is one thing, being silly in the eyes of the world is one step to far,
Aug 10th, 2011 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0VIETNAM, was an American problem, and nothing to do with the uk,
was the American intervention illegal, I dont know
[please ask an American] this is not my subject,
2, IRAQ, the UN agredd this action, the british was only a piece in a ````````````very big jijsaw,[so not illegal as far as im aware]
3, Afgan, again the UN and NATO, illegal [i dont think so]
4, FALKLANDS, argentina invaded, illigal YES,
and the UN excepts this, and so does everybody else,
exept argentina,
[ if i am wrong do doubt some kind sole will tell me ]
thanks .
35 geo. I wasn't the one who sent the troops. Anyways, they did not invade, but rather recaptured the Malvinas, only to have the Falklands re-recaptured soon(!). Disgraceful, sad and a useless loss of lives. The worst part of it all, in my humble view, is not who owns them or under whose sovereingty they are, but that with that stupid move we spoilt about a century of excellent acquaintance and goodwill between our peoples which might, I just say might, no wishful thinking, have turned the islanders' eyes to us, one day. Fortunately, I still keep my FI friends. Or it is not that whatever states decide to do are not our business? By the way, do you know that all along that war, the British (Shell BP) and we (YPF) never stopped a deal in which we supplied them with light fuels and they in turn supplied us with the catalysts we need in our refineries? Business are business...
Aug 10th, 2011 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[] - 38
Aug 10th, 2011 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 04,
if Argentina were the constant member of UN Security Council ?
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[] - 39
(re) capture = invade !
40 geo
Aug 10th, 2011 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0again please correct me if im wrong,
Argentina IS a member of the UN,
argentina is not on the security council,
but this does not alter the position .
[] - 41
Aug 10th, 2011 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if Argentina were the constant member of UN Security Council
then what would be decided at Falkland/Malvinas conflict !?
nothing geo
Aug 11th, 2011 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just nothing .
[] - 43
Aug 11th, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well done to you !
you started to learn THE LAW OF POWER not THE POWER OF LAW !!
so we are back where we started,
Aug 11th, 2011 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so the only answer is the ICJ,
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