MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands claims Argentina responsible for ending Southern Blue Whiting fishery
Argentina contributes for the destruction of the species Southern Blue Whiting in the South West Atlantic claim Falkland Islands Fisheries Department scientists and fishing company executives. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesArgentina's Fish Harvest
Aug 12th, 2011 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 02002/ 1,422 millions Pesos
2010/ 2,484 millions Pesos ............................. BRAVO !
Argentina ! you must keep away from greedy,fatsters, sharks !
UK is directly responsible for the destruction of Southern blue whiting species in the southwest Atlantic.
Aug 12th, 2011 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Failure to meet the just claims of sovereignty over the islands has caused this problem and this adds to the illegal search and looting of natural resources carried out by England triggered protests in world public opinion.
You must first talk about sovereignty to gain the trust of Argentina as it showed signs of dialogue in the nineties and England make fun of it.
2 Raul
Aug 12th, 2011 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your logic then is, because we did not agree, Argentina [again] has the right to steal what is not hers,
Or take the rule into her own hands, and devastate the stock,
As for the UK government being responsible, this is interesting, a the Falklands are British, then the Falklands should then ask the government to send down a few fishery protection ships, to patrol the waters, backed up by the bigger ships , just in case,
This has nothing to do with agreements, in such, that these stocks are getting smaller and could disappear for ever,, this is greed, argentine arrogance is to blame for this, and nothing more,
The time is rapidly coming when the UK will be forced to put Argentina, in its place,
Forced by Argentina, themselves, who keep on pushing, and pushing,
You have been humiliated once in the last 30 odd years, do you wish to make it twice,
Then perhaps we can all see, just WHO does backs your play,
Just a thought, [fishing mmm should have gone to Iceland] lol.
,,
By the way Argentina was not even humiliated, the British lost more ships than they imagined in their worst nightmare, also, a 1:2 soldier lost in the war is not catastrophic(649 killed-258 killed).
Aug 12th, 2011 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok now you live in a rock without fishes or oil... well that's your problem , not mine.
In South-America we are more fearful of USA or the British ex-Empire stealing our resources than thinking about your domestic problems.
USA is a commerce predator (with great success), while the British are involved in wars without getting any benefit from it.
The British government knows very clear that the Falklands war was just for political reason , but an economic disaster .
The old and stupid axiom of “wars to test our armament” is useless , the new era is about money , commerce and politics, look at India and China and Brazil.
Humiliation is what I've been watching in TV this week, you know... London in fire.
The British ex-Empire is extinct, with the depredation of the north sea oil wells, the whole system will collapse, just wait 5 more years !
It's a pity because the British people can offer great things to the world , like education in Medicine , technology , etc. But the UK preferred to relay on old systems(divide and conquer, colonies , wars) that worked 100 years ago , but not now.
“By the way Argentina was not even humiliated”
Aug 12th, 2011 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You was. You had every advantage and still lost.
3 British
Aug 12th, 2011 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their logic is, then, because we did not agree, Argentina [again] is entitled to steal what is not theirs.
I would say: Your logic is, then, because we did not agree, England [again] is entitled to steal what is not theirs.
The time is fast approaching when the UK will be forced to put Argentina in its place,
Compelled by Argentina, yes, keep pushing and pushing,
Pitiful and pathetic comment. Are we this threat? Is it going to attack England to Argentina with nuclear bombs by the mere echo of claiming dialogue, to reclaim the usurped sovereignty in 1833? Do we want to instill fear?
We already suffer throughout our history three English invasion and not afraid to continue to demand peacefully with the rest of Latin America and the southern hemisphere, which belongs to us.
They have been humbled once in the last 30 years or so, do you want to do it twice?
Who is the barbarian and who is civilized?
I think the barbarian is the country in 500 years of history (England) seized land in the world, colonized, murderer, still promoting racism and colonial in its decline threatens the rest of the world trade of exclusion and nuclear bombs and London is on fire.
Moral: Leave the resentment and hatred. At the same time domestic public opinion in the UK is considering moving forward with a constructive dialogue with Argentina. It's just a matter of time.
It is not humiliating, trying to build peace and dialogue, not weapons to destroy humanity.
Remember Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi: There are no roads to peace, peace is the road.
The time as come to talk about sovereignty, OK for that we need a time and place, Argentines can pick the time, and we pick the place, so the place is the ICJ, now we just need the time get a move on and let,s get this over.
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“At the same time domestic public opinion in the UK is considering moving forward with a constructive dialogue with Argentina”
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Erm, not it's not. Not at all, in any way shape or form.
6 Raul
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your destrudtion of the fishery is no-one's responsibility but yours. It's time for you to man up and start taking responsibility for your own actions. No-one made you do it. In fact you signed an agreement on joint fisheries management.
I'm getting quite tired of your sanctimonious moralising. You might choose to see this as the rotten dastardly British victimising poor little Argentina, but that doesn't make it true.
The British don't want the Falkland Islands. They just have an obligation not to allow us to be victimised by you. That's all there is to it. And we don't want you, and never will.
You want to leave resentment and hatred? Excellent. Stop behaving in a hateful way and we'll see how we get on.
Aye, If the islanders asked tomorrow to become independant we would allow it.
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can hardly claim the morale high ground when you seek to deny them there human rights.
JAJA argentina is suspending when there is just a few fishes, and the uk is increasing the quantity of catches...and we are the guilty ones?? jaja god they are so ridiculous
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Juan - who says the FI don't have oil? Certainly not the Singapore gvt! Kiss my FPSO!
Aug 12th, 2011 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 Searinox
Aug 12th, 2011 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you reading the same article as the rest of us?
Are you even on the same planet?
Monty, most of these guys are not of this world. My newest business associate is an Argentine and doesn't give a toss about the Falkland Islands. He is one of those Argentines that had talent though so left Argentina.
Aug 12th, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just sit back and laugh at these poor souls while RKH move that rig for another appraisal drill north of where it has just done a great job!
Monty, most of these guys are not of this world. My newest business associate is an Argentine and doesn't give a toss about the Falkland Islands. He is one of those Argentines that had talent though so left Argentina
Aug 12th, 2011 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beef: The brits,they give even less than a toss.Remeber,JNott,did not know where Malvinas was.He has to look at the map.
One Argentine left? 3 brits left.
Do you want to have a future beef?
Jim Rogers : Teach your children Chinese !!!!!!!! llows the advise of a much smarter man than you(he was a billionaire at 35)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRfpAAIjEek
i'm a tortoisssssssssssse!
Aug 12th, 2011 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Morning all ... usual rubbish from Rolly and Guano I see although unusually I think I'm going to have to agree with ExBrain, because he probably is!
Aug 13th, 2011 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Neighbours who don't follow the rules are much good in negotiations anyway and Argentina never keeps to its agreements so i suppose the fish were always going to suffer.
If the spawning grounds are in Falklands waters then maybe there's some way of keeping them in those water, fish farming or some such.
Still, the oil will help :-)
Neighbours who don't follow the rules are much good in negotiations anyway and Argentina never keeps to its agreements so i suppose the fish were always going to suffer.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0AHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAHHH,so we are 40 million,and have 2000 people and we are suppose to be prisioners of them???
Ridiculous....as usual ladybug...Just move out to your area,the North Atlantic.....the empire IS OVER,NEVER TO COME BACK.....
What you are supposed to be, SiEsterCumMarvin, is conservation minded so that the fish stocks don't disappear. But then what can be expected from a Banana Republic !
Aug 13th, 2011 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0And our area is the world. The sun never sets etc, etc :-)
Malviner - like British soverignty of the FI, my future is not in question. The drill bit on the Ocean Guardian keep turning and Argentina can do nothing about it. Chuckle chuckle!
Aug 13th, 2011 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Aug 13th, 2011 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is a huge difference between:
”Destruction of fish species in the South West Atlantic”
And:
”Fishing a species out to the point where levels are no longer COMMERCIAL in the South West Atlantic.”
Argentina is doing the former to wreck the business of those self-proclaimed ”conservation minded” 3.000 British Squatters in Malvinas issuing licenses to third countries to fish hundreds of thousands tons of biomass out of Argentinean waters every year.
Think - you make it sound as though it is a planned operation, when the reality is that Argentina's fishing industry is out of control and it is not just the islander's whose fishing stocks are being reduced.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization currently lists species that are either ‘Fully Exploited’, ‘Overexploited’ or ‘Depleted’ and records the demise of these species by region. The southwest Atlantic is area 41 - check it out.
http://lordton1955.wordpress.com/2011/08/13/77/
The islanders may have lost one commercial resource, but so has Argentina and Chile and Uruguay.
Bet they're impressed !
Argentina does not own the south Atlantic and the borders are well laid out. If it wasn't for Argentina's inability to control its fishing fleets, even when they were still in the SAFC, the species would still be viable.
Still, the islanders' look as though they'll have some oil to fall back upon.
Think - I thought you were a Marxist? What you have just claimed is the opposite of Marxist principles of production and trade! Are you a sell out?
Aug 13th, 2011 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any way, the drill bit keeps turning and the ships and aircraft keep bringing those supplies in.
Argentina can do nothing about it. Arrrr pity for you! British sovereignty getting to you. Onwards Singapore, our new partner in the drilling and eventual production!
Very astute businessmen, the Chinese & Singaporeans more than most.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0lf they're interested in our oil, then you can be sure that they've done their homework & there's lots of oil.
Pity about Argentina not getting any, shame really. But hey, that's life(snigger, snigger).
Typical dog-in-the-manger attitude from sr Think. “We don't care if we wreck a fishing species, as long as we wreck your livelihood”.
But we've learned to expect that from the Patagonian Squatter.
l see gold is nudging $1750 per ounce. yum yum.
Mercedes or BMW, decisions decisions. Maybe even another Chevrolet.
Peace.
i see two picture on this article ,bottom has magnificient view
Aug 13th, 2011 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0from Falklands ( i guess not from Alaska)..mountains,rivers,
forests,fat fishes.....
it is worth flutters of Brits posters here !
@geo, i see a the postings of a deluded numbnuts. You clearly do not see the same photo the rest of us see on the article.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think, etc.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fishing to economic extinction by the Argentine fleet and those under Argentine licence is NOT a ploy to starve out TFI.
It is simply an anarchic disregard of scientific guidance of how much exploitation pressure the fishery can sustain.
The Argentine fleet and fisheries authority have access to all TFI fisheries information and stock projections to include in their own exploitation models.
The Ministry and the Argentinian fishing industry have absolutely no excuse; they know what should be done when yield-achieved undershoots the model so massively.
They prefer to fish to extinction rather than conserve their stock to support future generations of fisher-families.
They have no excuse also because they have seen the nations of the Nort East and North West Atlantic do the same in their waters.
They know the outcome and they do it anyway.
Microcosmically, this lays out the world's future human condition.
[] - 26 Teaboy
Aug 13th, 2011 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Me numb ?? ..... impossible !!
you call BMW as tractor !!
@Geo “Me numb ?? ..... impossible !!”
Aug 13th, 2011 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Am afraid you just proved that i am right and you are a numbnuts (i suggest you check out its meaning before posting again)
As - “you call BMW as tractor !!”
Really, and where exactly did i say anything of the sort? I think you will find i have not, therefore your comment is 100% inaccurate. By the way, BMW as a German Manufacturer, so am sure when any Brits refer to BMW's as tractors it is purely in homour. After all we have a long history of making jokes about the Germans just like we make jokes about you Argentinans.
Heres one such joke about argentinia:
“After argentina's attempt to retire diego maradonna's number 10 shirt was rejected by FIFA, the Argentinian manager has allocated the shirt to the third goalkeeper, meaning that the argentine number 10 will be allowed to use his hands.
No change there then.”
21 Think
Aug 13th, 2011 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know this is the line you take, and I'm quite glad to hear it because it spares us from all the sanctimonious conservation lectures.
I don't actually believe it. I think the Argentines are wrecking the fishery out of sheer incompetence.
[] - Teaboy
Aug 13th, 2011 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you now the meaning of BMW
it is not the British Motor Works !?
the reason why ..he had made a goal against England (not UK)
in 86/Mexico/World Cup !? by hand ?? by finger '??
21 Think
Aug 13th, 2011 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Argentina is doing the former'
which means Argentina is doing this:
”Destruction of fish species in the South West Atlantic”
BMW
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Big , Mexican, Woman ???
[] - Teaboy
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0every country has different standarts ...for instance
amphetamine use ; UK ( 3 %)......Germany ( 0,48 %)
cannabis use ; UK( 9 %) ...........Germany ( 4,1 %)
a poll question ...will flight for your country ;
UK( 74 % )..................Germany ( 47% )
this is not joke !! best flights !!
TWIMC
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a lot of ”Faux Indignation” in response to my comment No. 21….
What a lot of ”Faux Marine Biology Expertise” in response to my comment No. 21….
What a lot of ”Faux Political Insight about Argentina” in response to my comment No. 21….
What a lot of ”Vrai Turnipidity” in response to my comment No. 21….
What a twisted logic you Brits employ by which tens of millions of South-Americans have to reduce and adapt our fisheries in the South Atlantic to the moods of some 2.500 British Squatters from the North, backed by their Military Might from the North selling fishing licenses to other Nations from the North to exploit and deplete the South Atlantic as they already have done with their own Seas in the North.
@35
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How are you going to protect your territory Think against illegal fishing ? by talking to them to death?
I think we should stop worrying about it. If the Argentines want to shit on their own doorstep, let them.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It looks like the FI's will preserve and increase the stocks in their waters.
So Think, are you a Marxist or not? Or are you only a Marxist when it suits you? Does self-determination exist only when it suits you? Does responsible governance only matter when it suits you?
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like you are a man who will dismiss his principles at will? Not a very strong character then.
Enjoy watching the oil flow from the FI to market!! There is nothing you can do about it. Chuckle Chuckle!!
@Geo #31 - “you now the meaning of BMW
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it is not the British Motor Works !?”
No its “Bayerische Motoren Werke AG” Do your homework before jumping to consulsions.
As for - ”the reason why ..he had made a goal against England (not UK)
in 86/Mexico/World Cup !? by hand ?? by finger '??” - Well it was a joke Geo, it doesn't matter whether it came from the english, welsh, scotish or irish (or even the germans) the fact remains, he used his hands!
As for post #34:
What the hell are you on about? What the hell does percentage of drugs use per nation have to do with anything. You are bringing up subjects that are not even being discussed. And by the way the germans have a much higher population that the UK so the lower the percentage of drugs use will be if the same amount of population were drugs users in both countries, so percentages without exact population figures is not worth the paper its written on numbnuts.
Though you are right about 74% of the UK population being willing to take arms and fight for their country, myself included!
Think, Argentina's has screwed its own fisheries - Fact, Not Faux Fact, but Fact.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I gave you the evidence, from the UN no less.
Argentina couldn't come up with a cunning plan and carry it out if it tried. Too many turnips.
Oh, and Argentina did not withdraw from the ASFC because of the 25 year licences. They haven't technically withdrawn at all. Argentina has put preconditions on further talks, ie sovereignty. As that is never going to be discussed the SAFC has in effect ended as a forum.
And Argentina's fisheries die too ..... sounds like a shot in the foot to me. But then what can you expect from a banana Republic :-)
At laest the 3000 islanders live in a real democracy. One day you may live in a reasonable country too .... but I suspect you'll have to emigrate :-)
TWIMC
Aug 13th, 2011 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(36) Artillero601
You ask:
”How are you going to protect your territory Think against illegal fishing?”
I say:
I have written repeatedly on this site how we are going to do it………
I’m sure that a young intelligent man as you, if interested, will be able to find all my arguments through MercoPress excellent archive function……….
But…………. One thing I want to make absolutely clear is that we, the ”Thinking” Argentineans are not going to defend our territory using the “skills”, “expertise” and “proficiency” from the likes of you, my dear milico………..
@41
Aug 13th, 2011 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm a well trained “milico” and I will be available at your request just in case you change your mind Mr Think! :-))
@think - “Argentineans are not going to defend our territory using the “skills”, “expertise” and “proficiency” from the likes of you, my dear milico………..”
Aug 13th, 2011 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats the best news i heard all day, you just confirmed that you will not be using skills and experise that not only we use but the whole of the modern world use. I guess your going to revert back to sticks and stones and use spears and arrows in any future attempt to invade the falklands, after all you can not use ship building skills, science expertise, engineering expertise, warfare skills, tactics and weapons that rely soley on such skills and expertise that we brits and the rest of the modern world developed, used and even created.
And as your not going to defend using such skills and expertise, well lets tell chilie and all other former agrentine enemy states and see whos army will get to Buenos aires the quickest - Place your bets now please lol.
sorry think but you left your self wide open for that one :)
Elaine @#37,
Aug 13th, 2011 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh, that it were so simple.
There is continuity of stocks across the Argentinian EEZ and TFI EEZ.
At various times of the year stocks migrate between for reasons of breeding, feeding and, for some spp., overwintering.
A too-big Argentinian hit on the Rio de la Plata spawning grounds will affect stocks off much of Argentina as well as TFI - and Uruguay and Brasil.
It is in everybody's interests to restrain the Argentinians.
@43 :-)) !!!
Aug 13th, 2011 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(43) Boy
Aug 13th, 2011 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeahhhhhh………….. please go ahead and tell ”chilie” and all other former ”agrentine” enemy states and see whos army will get to Buenos aires the quickest……………
But first, learn to spell correctly……. Or else the “chilies” may miss “agrentine”………..
Anyhow......................., we have, during the past many years, virtually dismantled our Armed Farces, leaving ourselves ”wide open” as you so intelligently put it, and I still haven’t spotted any Chilean or other former ”Enemy States” armies trying to invade my Country.
Wonder why???
@44 Yeah, I was being flippant. : )
Aug 13th, 2011 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your former enemies have no reason to invade Argentina and seek only peaceful relations with your country. This includes the BOT of the Falkland Islands.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your country however does not wish to enjoy such a relationship with the Islands and your president is intent on using them for domestic political gain, nothing more, nothing less (your refusal to take legal action is evidence of this).
In terms of invasion let us not forget that less than 30 years ago you country invaded the FI and held a gun to the back of the governor and locked the population of Goose Green in a hut with limited access to sanitation or medical service. These events were celebrated by your populace.
We have no reason or will to accatck Argentina but we have a duty to defend the islands from aggression; an aggression which showed it's hand in our lifetime.
[] - 24 Isolde
Aug 13th, 2011 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i think Chevrolet's new Aveo model will be going at the market.
&
i find Ford's new Fiesta is preferable too !
@49
Aug 13th, 2011 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be a man Geo!! drive a Hummer ! ..... just kidding :-))
[] - 50 Artio
Aug 13th, 2011 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know the Hummer is taken over by Chinese ?
i'm modest man ...
if i were living in US i would drive Buick ( Regal or Verano).
i haven't drive (4 X 4) .
i am aware of last GM attacks on some mechanics & dashboard designs.
Jag XF 3.0 diesel! There is no other car!! Can't wait to fill it up with oil from the Falkland Islands!
Aug 13th, 2011 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[]- 52 Beef
Aug 13th, 2011 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can Falklands' oil reserves be enough for Jaguars !!
@49geo,
Aug 13th, 2011 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l love all the big American V8 cars, Chevs in particular. We had a 65 lmpala in the Philippines. Ex US Serviceman's private car. Loved it, even though l could only just see over the steering wheel! Far too big for Manila streets though! You could fit 6 kids across the rear seat.
But l digress, how about we all stop fishing for 5 years? Give the fish time to recover(l can hear the outraged screams of indignation from all sides to that one!).
Geo - did you read the last RKH update on the appraisal drilling? Looks like OIP and recoverables are about to be upgraded. Can't wait for the new CPR in 2012. Might have to get the wife an Audi TT in addition to the XF.
Aug 13th, 2011 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jag XF 3.0 diesel! There is no other car!! Can't wait to fill it up with oil from the Falkland Islands”
Aug 14th, 2011 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0AHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH,that is good one,beef!!I think you will be filling ,soybean oil..or from The Argentine sea......
@51 by an Indian Company ....
Aug 14th, 2011 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@52 Red a Jag ?? Jeep Rubicon 4 x 4 , 22 inch wheels.... lots of testosterone!
@56 lots of Valero's in Texas, Venezuelan gas baby (and I don't like Chavez) ... :-))))
not 22, 32 inches .... my bad !
Aug 14th, 2011 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cher, petite Isolde.....
Aug 14th, 2011 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is the Chevrolet for you.
No-nonsense, but with “an attitude.”
Unquestionably the best for Malvinas gravel roads, bog, ice and snow.
Decent amount of space for ya sheepdogs, in-laws, kids and other critters.
IBesides, you will be laughing all the way to the bank at the petrol station and, with the proper winch installed, when helping those other heawy and expensive 4wd’s gas guzzlers getting unstuck.
http://www.gm-avtovaz.ru/chevrolet_niva/exterier/
Malviner - the only reason I probably won't fill the Jag up with FI oil is it will probably go to market in another country or region. Brazil appear happy to be acting as a stop over for supply ships, but they have enough of their own, but we will see if the big oil companies allocate their Brazilian refineries for FI oil. However I think that we may see this FPSO tankers heading to Singapore, after all they are part funding the drilling.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why haven't the Argentine gvt protested to Singapore yet? Is it because they are only using the FI and the drilling for domestic political purposes and Anglophobia is a simple way to score political points from the Marxists and uneducated (and who said the Argie gvt was not transparent)!
[]- 60 Beef
Aug 14th, 2011 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Singapore is not a place to take it serious politically..
It is just city-state where dominated by Chinese diasphora,
it makes everything re-export..
other Chinese diasphora controlled countries are
Philippines,Thailand,Indonesia.....
You can't behave homogenous when touch to East Asia ..
Geo - you have just shown yourself to be a plank. Take Singapore very seriously, the world passes through Singapore and singaporeans are some of the most astute business people in the world. I have been there a few times and had a jolly nice time (especially at the Shangri-La hotel).
Aug 14th, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0They also make sound business investments hence they are building a stake in FI oil! Looks like they give Argentina the response it deserves with regards to the FI. Keep drilling boys!
@62 Beef,
Aug 14th, 2011 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Completely agree with you re Singapore & Singaporeans. Very smart people in business.
@59Think,
Thanks for the information Cher Think. Do they make them in right hand drive?
@48 Think - “But first, learn to spell correctly……. Or else the “chilies” may miss “agrentine”………..”
Aug 14th, 2011 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh am sorry does my being dsylexic mean i am not allowed to make the odd spelling mistake or typo? No it doesn't, as it means i will make such spelling mistakes. But as i am aware of my condition, i do try to re-read my postings and correct mistakes if i spot them. Which isn't easy considering i see words differently to what you would.
Perhaps you should learn to consider that before openly critising people for simple spelling mistakes like those you picked out from my previous post. Telling someone who is dsylexic to learn to spell is one the lowest insult you can throw at them - Oh and before you say you did not know about my condition, well i did mention it a few months back in posts on this site.
Settle down Teaboy2, Think just looks for any chink in one's armour. to try to exploit it. He has pulled a few of us up but he makes spelling mistakes also. l think that the English language is flexible enough to stand a few errors. Anyway, a spelling mistake today is the correct way to spell tomorrow.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l could never understand the King James version of the Bible.
Teaboy - when think can come up with any feasible counter argument (which is a regular occurrence) he goes for simple spelling and typos. Demonstrates the holes in his reasoning.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do find it interesting that non of the Argies have decided to comment the position of the Singaporean gvt and their direct investment in FI oil exploration. I guess this would go against their claims that the world supports them and they are winning their Malvinas Jihad! They are sticking their heads in the sand as well as up their own arses.
Keep drilling boys and thanks to Singapore for their financial investment and to Brazil for proving port facilities for those supply ships!
[] - 64 - 65 - 66
Aug 14th, 2011 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i say likely Think's reply in advance ;
I say ;
Nothing..........................!
You say ;
Something......................!
Chuckle chuckle™
Aug 14th, 2011 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that, not only am I supposed to be “nice” and “politically correct” with the horde of Dyslectic Turnips that flood this site, constantly insulting and threatening Argentina (“Zethee”, “Briton”, “Stickupyourjunta”, “Teaboy2” Britishbulldog etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) ………... but they also expect me to remember them and their Dyslectic Turnipidity!
Haven’t you Dyslectic Turnips ever heard about something called “Spelling function” in your computers?
Try this:
Open a Word document.
Type: “Agrentine”
Use the spell function……
Ooooops!!!…………..
Ain’t so difficult. Huhhhh???
Still Think, you have no argument, no legal case and no say regarding the governing of the FI or their legal right to drill and exploit their hydrocarbons.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looking forward to the seismic results and the next drill.
Chuckle, chuckle!
Onwards Singapore!
To the Self-Pitying Dyslectic Turnip “ Teaboy2”
Aug 14th, 2011 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say at (64):
….. Oh and before you say you did not know about my condition, well i did mention it a few months back in posts on this site.
I say:
Here is the post you refer to:
”18 Teaboy2 Mar 18th, 2011
Martin …………… I personally have an IQ of 130, yet i am dyslexic too and struggle with reading and writing as a result………….”
http://en.mercopress.com/2011/03/18/wikileaks-argentina-s-self-centred-attitude-almost-had-her-thrown-out-of-g20
Well…………… A brillant person like you, with an ”IQ of 130” will immediately notice that that post was directed to ”Mr. Martin Fierro” and that ”Mr. Think” didn’t even comment on the above mentioned article, and probably didn't even read it………
You “Poor Little Sausage”
The “baaad baaad Mr. Think” has been mean to you...
Good that you have “Cher Isolde” and “Mr. Beef” to “tuck you in”
@68
Aug 14th, 2011 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Greetings from Texas (the lone Star State) if you actually use Google Chrome as your web browser, the spell check is already integrated ...
I noticed you a little tense Mr Think ..... CFK is going to loose the elections? may be wishful thinking from my part!! Peace
O vivir con honor o morir con gloria ........
To (69), Mr. Beef...
Aug 14th, 2011 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t be so Haughty…
Things can Shift so Swiftly…
http://arabnews.com/economy/article488077.ece
To (71) Artillero 601
Tejas sounds más nicer Chamaco.
http://arabnews.com/economy/article488077.ece
The whitings are not the only ones feeling blue;
Aug 14th, 2011 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0this piece has degenerated off-message so far that I feel distinctly Navy.
”it seems that, not only am I supposed to be “nice” and “politically correct” with the horde of Dyslectic Turnips that flood this site, constantly insulting and threatening Argentina (“Zethee”, “Briton”, “Stickupyourjunta”, “Teaboy2” Britishbulldog etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.) ………... but they also expect me to remember them and their Dyslectic Turnipidity!”
Aug 14th, 2011 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've never expected you to be nice, I find it rather amusing infact when you start to insult people based on there grammar and spelling. It just reinforces the fact that you've lost the argument and have lowered yourself to grammar policing.
:-)
[]- 71 Artio
Aug 14th, 2011 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0for all heard there are “” Private School Chains “” in Texas !!
(but highly different ones according to other states !)
do you have any idea about them !!??
[]- 71 Artio
Aug 14th, 2011 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0for all heard there are “” Private Fast Food Chains “” in Texas !!
(but highly different ones according to other states !)
do you have any idea about them !!??
Please explain in-depth, the difference between Taco Bueno, Taco Mayo and Taco Bell :-)
Well Think, that was a pointless post. Woopee oil proces have been a bit volatile but low can they go. Certainly not low enough to make FI oil uneconomical.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will be as haughty as I like and my confidence is underpinned by fundamentals. Your hope is underpinned by desperation and an unwillingness to recognize that know one cares about Argentina and it's spurious claims to the Islands.
You are clutching at straws now.
The drill bit continues to turn! Onward Singapore.
2.
Aug 14th, 2011 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The whitings are not the only ones feeling blue;
this piece has degenerated off-message so far that I feel distinctly Navy.
Much better to be blue than a jealous green because the FI are British. But no the Argentine colour is yellow isn't it?
Aug 14th, 2011 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@76
Aug 15th, 2011 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please explain in-depth, the difference between Taco Bueno, Taco Mayo and Taco Bell ..... I don't know the difference but for sure they will give you heart burn ......
@79
the Argentine colour is yellow isn't it?.... No is not !! bee nice brother :-))
[]- Artio
Aug 15th, 2011 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0why do you want to escape from serious questions ?
not surprıse for me ..anyway ..
you don't play the three monkeys ..do you ?
OK !
here is the simple/easy question for you !(this is my third Q for you)
---------------------------------------
You use Google Chrome ?
DO YOU KNOW THE MEANINGS OF IT'S LOGO & IT'S COLOURS ??
-------------------------------------
NOTE: i don't recommend the American made Browsers !
@81
Aug 15th, 2011 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DO YOU KNOW THE MEANINGS OF IT'S LOGO & IT'S COLOURS ??...... No I don't and I don't care .... NEXT QUESTION !!!
@81 :-))
Aug 15th, 2011 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... A further boost for the fortunes of Rockhopper Exploration PLC in a report out today. The company has upgraded its estimates and said that new seismic data indicates that its Sea Lion discovery in the North basin could extend 90 square kilometers further than previously thought. The discovery also appears to extend to license PL004, operated by Desire Petroleum PLC...”
Aug 15th, 2011 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/oil-upgrade/
Now don't gloat Beef - chortle, chortle :-)
[] - 82 Artio
Aug 15th, 2011 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next Question ?
Ok !
--------------------------------------------------------
WHAT ARE THE ETHNIC ORIGINS OF STATE TENNESSEE 'S
POPULATION (informal ...formal) ??
--------------------------------------------------------
[] - 82 Artio
Aug 15th, 2011 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next Question ?
Ok !
--------------------------------------------------------
WHAT ARE THE ETHNIC ORIGINS OF NEVER SWEAT, WY.
FOX FAMILY (informal ...formal) ??
Oh look. Twinky has surfaced from turpidity. Problem with the regime paying your fees? Never mind. I'm sure a new tin shack is just around the corner. And running water! Other countries call it a lavatory or WC!
Aug 15th, 2011 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm getting tired of you ignoring every attempt to educate you. I realise that this is a Spanish disease. We can see this from the current inhabitants of Spain. Who are equally incapable of growing up to a point approaching maturity.
Let''s try to clarify. There are 40 million of you argies. There are 60 million Brits. Go figure.
REDHOYT and others.
Aug 15th, 2011 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I already finished my investigation, if you want to read it, write me to my i mail adress and i will send it to you, i was going to publish it in internet, but i decided that i wont, in another comment i explained why i took that decition.
Write me to investigationmalvinas@hotmail.com.ar
Think I'll pass Axel... too much effort to set up a seperate e-mail just for a one time use :-)
Aug 15th, 2011 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He won't post it? So a complete waste of time and effort then? Although he could be submitting it for peer review to other Malvinists, and then eventually as a supportive document for Argentina's Court Case at the ICJ.
Aug 15th, 2011 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So that means we'll never see it as Argentina won't take the matter to the ICJ; or like all the other evidence the Argentine Government and Malvinists refer to, it doesn't really exist, or is so flawed the author is afraid to submit it to independent review.
On the other hand, axel arg has seen a market for a book to sell to about 14 million Argentine's, because they will believe any old shite and fools are easily parted from their money; for an Argentine this is an astute decision, because he can then afford emigrate away from the shit hole.
Go on, tell me I'm wrong?
WIRELESS.
Aug 16th, 2011 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0The reason why i wont publish my investigation in internet, is due to when i registered it at the national direction of authors, i was told in that institution that i should ask the authors of the bibliographies that i used, if they allow me or not me to date them in my work, anyway i was told too that it's hightly probable that nothing happens finaly, but it's not totaly sure, that's why i decided that i wont publish in internet.
On the other hand, i dont consider that i waste my time, because i have always liked to know about the history of my country, specialy about this dispute, beside, i am not going to write any book, i only made this survey, because i am a professor and i need to learn more, dont judge me if you dont know me.
@91
Aug 16th, 2011 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I received your email and appreciate you sending me a copy of your research :-))
Axel - try sending it as a 'reply' to here -
Aug 16th, 2011 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/resources-links-etc/
Anonymity guaranteed.
REDHOYT.
Aug 16th, 2011 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my comment 91, i explain why i wont publish my investigation in internet, i have a blog in wordpress, but i wont publish it there, my i mail is the only one alternative that i can offer to all of you, there is nothing else i can do.
@85
Aug 16th, 2011 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How am I suppose to know that without Google? who do you think i am ? Andrew Jackon? :-))
Axel,
Aug 16th, 2011 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know about others here, but I have no intention of debating your work with you in private. I will only do it in a public forum. That means your work has to be public also.
Different jurisdictions allow the quotation of other people's works within certain limits without the need to get permission or make a payment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
Have you copied so much of other people's works that it is not protected by any exception?
DAB14763.
Aug 16th, 2011 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont have neather the intention of debating with you in private, in fact, i dont want to do it with anyone in that way, in my comment 91, i explain why i wont publish mi investigation in internet, beside, mercopress is a good public forum, we can debate here, but my i mail adress is the only one alternative that i can offer to all of you, in order to get my survey, anyway i will find out about those links that you suggest me.
Axel,
Aug 16th, 2011 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If people see our debates here or any other public forum, then they should also be able to see what we are debating.
Axel, you have to ask permission to reference works? That must be a world first...
Aug 17th, 2011 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel:
Aug 17th, 2011 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like you're a bit concerned that people will pick holes in your investigation.
As long as all quotes and are referenced properly and there is no blatant plagiarism, then you should not have any problems putting it on the web. You don't necessarily need to put citations for all your facts, but nobody will take you seriously if you don't. If you are reporting original research of your own, then some sort of methodology would be required, so people know where it came from.
You only need to obtain permissions if you are reproducing large amounts of other peoples text verbatim or using a figure or table that someone else has the copyright for.
I know, because I have written hundreds of articles published in scientific journals over the past few years (it's my job).
COME ON! LET'S SEE IT!
J. A. ROBERT. DAB14763. CRACKPOT.
Aug 17th, 2011 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guys, my investigation is a compilation of extracts of texts of diferent authors who wrote about the historic and legal aspects that reffer to the conflict for the sovereignty of the islands, all the texts are perfectly dated, in fact in the whole work, only the introduction, the final analysis, and the conclutions are mine, but all the rest belong to the authors, i included argentine and british professors.
Anyway i will consult to a lawyer about the question of the publication of my survey in internet, because i dont want to have any problem, meantime, if any of you wants to read it, write me to my i mail adress, and i will send it to you, greetings from buenos aires.
investigationmalvinas@hotmail.com.ar
So it's a review of other people's opinions?
Aug 18th, 2011 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you were doing some original work Axel ..... hmmm .. I wouldn't post it, you'll leave yourself wide open for the wolves ...... like me :-).
Now, I've been reading up on the Beagle Channel case and the decisions/considerations of the arbitration panel that gave its verdict in 1979. Interesting.
Doesn't do much for Uti Possidetis Juris mind -
” ... the Parties were agreed in principle that their rights in the matter of claims or title to territory were governed prima facie (and if no recognized basis of derogation existed) by the doctrine of the uti possidetis juris of 1810, This doctrine—possibly, at least at first, a political tenet rather than a true rule of law—is peculiar to the field of the Spanish-American States whose territories were formerly under the rule of the Spanish Crown, —and even if both the scope and applicability of the doctrine were somewhat uncertain, particularly in such far-distant regions of the continent as are those in issue in the present case, it undoubtedly constituted an important element in the inter-relationships of the continent. “
So, just a “political tenet rather than a true rule of law”. The panel elsewhere described it as 'intra-South America'.
And the panel consisted of ICJ judges too. Hmm - no UPJ = no history before 1816. Oh dear, how sad, never mind :-)
@89 & 90
Aug 18th, 2011 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it's a complete waste of time and effort. It always was. And I'll bet the greater part of it is in Spanish as well.
According to axel, only the introduction, the final analysis and the conclusions are his. Well, well, well. shall we put money on the introduction, well-padded of course, consisting of something on the lines of ”I have decided to conduct an investigation/survey (axel doesn't seem to be sure which it is) of a couple of hundred years' worth of varying opinions on the illegal British occupation of Las Islas Malvinas (proper name Falkland Islands). I have carefully selected the authors in order to provide the most balanced support for the Argentine position.“
Then there's the final analysis that will be on the lines of ”As can be seen, the majority of authors that I have selected and listed support the Argentine position.“
Finally, there will be axel's conclusions. ” Having investigated this whole matter exhaustively, there is no doubt that the Argentine government, supported by all other South American governments, is right in all its arguments and that this has been the case since 18 whenever. Therefore, the British government must remove its colony, bowing too the wishes of the international community (South America and a few others) and the UN and recognise the sovereignty of Argentina over the islands and all their resources. MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!”
Anybody want to lay out any money?
REDHOYT. CONQUEROR.
Aug 18th, 2011 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REDHOYT: I never investigated about the beaguel chanel, that's why i can't say so much about it.
Respecting my investigation, it was obvious that was going to incorporate the extracts of diferent professors, i am not a professor of international right, i'm a professor of geography, there are planty of academic knowledges that i dont know, that' why i ned to investigate, i suggest you to send me an i mail, i will send my survey to you, after we can discuss about it.
CONQUEROR: If you didn't read my survey yet, please dont judge it, you have no idea about are the arguments that i used for it, beside, only an ignorant who has bad faith can say that i waste my time, i am a professor of geography, and i will have to teach about this question for the next 35 years of my life, that' s why i ned to investigate more, on the other hand i started to investigate after i read the falklands history document made by peter pepper and graham pascoe, it's a good work, but there are important omitions on it also.
My piupirls will learn the historic perspectives of both countries, after they will get their conclutions, i hate the omitions in the history, beside my whole work was written in spanish and english, and i incorporated the arguments of british profesors too, i suggest you to read it, and after we can discuss about it.
I have no pland of writong a book, nor earning money with the a publication in internet, i only investigated because i have always liked to read about the history of my country, specialy all the aspects that reffer to this dispute, if yu think that investigating about a historic problematic is a waste of time, that shows of mediocre your thought is.
104 axel arg
Aug 18th, 2011 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you include the arguments of Falkland Islanders as well?
I was not suggesting that you should Axel, unless you talk about Uti Possidetis Juris, which was what I was looking into.
Aug 18th, 2011 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now if I was a betting man I'd put some money on Axle concluding that the British illegally removed the Argentines from ..... East Falkland! Interesting ly I was going through some US correspondence yesterday regarding the Lexington incident and they only refer to the 'Island of Soledad' !
Also Argentina has sough reparations from the US on 2 occassions, 1839 and 1885. Fobbed off the first time, dismissed the second.
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/1834-1839/
http://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/1834-1839/
Of course the history is now irrelevant, and the UN Charter is the only game in town. Irrelevant but interesting non the less :-)
FACT #1 - JEWETT WAS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER OF THE UNITED PROVINCES MARINES AT THE TIME OF HIS 1820 MISSION, NOT A CORSAIR OR PRIVATEER AS SOME HERE WOULD PRETEND:
Aug 19th, 2011 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I hereby name don David Jewett as Colonel of the Army in the service of the National Marines, with a directorial deployment ongoing, this 15th of January, 1820.
Matias Irigogyen
Minister of War and Marines
FACT #2 - JEWETT'S DECLARATION WAS ORDERED BY BUENOS AIRES, NOT A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE AS SOME HERE WOULD PRETEND.
“The Supreme Director of the United Provinces of South America, attentive to services rendered, hereby names David Jewett as Captain of the ship “La Heroina”, and John Adams as second commander, sailing in the capacity of War Frigate of the State, and directing him to take possession of the Malvinas Islands on behalf of the Supreme Government of the United Provinces and of the Nation to which they belong by natural law. Thusly be it communicated and published.
Jose Rondeau
Supreme Director of the United Provinces
15 January, 1820”
BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY IS A LIE TOLD AT THE POINT OF A GUN.
Thank you Ailing. Can you give the source? You see I know a man who has searched the Argentine National Archive and could not find any trace of this order there. A reference will help prove it.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You haven't got it out of a book have you?
A book without references?
But thank you anyway. I'll ask my friend to check again :-)
Of course this doesn't actually overcome the problem that Jewett did not do sufficient to actually gain sovereignty for BA. A claim alone is not enough of course.
#107 Irrelevant. Like Hoyt says, the UP never gained control and that is one of the key aspects of sovereignty. Running up a flag and saying “this is ours” is not enough.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and anything pre the UN Charter is irrelevant anyway. The only thing that counts is self determination - unless of course you can point us to the UN Charter article, UN Resolution or ICJ case which specifically limits self determination for the Falkland Islanders on any basis, but a territorial claim would be especially good...
eeer Alejandro....how can he be a colonel of the army, when he was declared a colonel in the Navy....
Aug 19th, 2011 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh no, not him again! Still, mr not hot, you're good for a laugh.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt l have insulted you, much less than you've insulted me though,AA.
Seems to get a reaction, like poking a stick through the bars. So here goes: “Hey, Alex, there is NOTHING to negotiate”. l hate myself when l do this(only a little)!
I think most people are good for a laugh. I love Eddie Izzard.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0This clip from Eddie Izzard in the USA pokes fun at the British, the Monarchy, and the Importance Of Flags.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTduy7Qkvk8
Red stop teasing the “law student”/Cameraman. Jewett's orders do exist, they unfortunately make no reference to the Falklands.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jewett was not just a privateer, he was in fact a pirate. In seizing the Carlota, a Portuguese ship, not authorised by his Letters of Marque as the UP was not at war with Portugal he crossed the line into piracy. Just as he did with the seizure of the US ship Rampart.
His crew being mainly British weren't too happy about him seizing Portuguese ships, as Portugal was a long time ally of Britain and threatened mutiny as they considered Jewett guilty of piracy.
Where the fruit loop who normally calls every Brit a pirate? Seems Argentina has a few pirates of their own.
Little early for you Ailing, I suppose. Well my contact has come back to me and states that there is no such paper in the National Archives and that what you have presented appears to be a forgery.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that your National Archives contain no mention of the 'claim' either.
What there is, is a 13 page report by Jewett covering his journey and his time in the islands, but even that does not mention his 'claim' on behalf of UP.
If it smells of fish, then it's probably 'fishy'.
I suggest you send it on to some of your more eminent historians ... you'll be famous :-)
REDHOYT. J. A. ROBERT. JUSTINKUNTZ. MONTY69. and others.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't include only historic aspects, in fact my investigation reffers to the historic and legal aspects of the conflict betwen both nations, if we debate all the time about this dispute, it's because it's important for all of us, and it's necesary to read about diferent points of view, if none of you read it yet, then dont judge my survey, most you have always underestimated since the first time, in fact, none of you believed that i was really investigating, my work is not argentine propaganda, i made a balance betwen the strong and the weck aspects of both perspectives, beside i included also the academic knowledges of british professors, i have been investigating and translating for more than one year, that's why it took me so much time to finish it.
On the other hand, i will consult to a lawyer about the question of the publication of my survey in internet, because when i registered it at the national direction of authors, i was told in that institution that i should ask the authors of the bibliographies that i used, because maybe they dont want me to date them, anyway i was told too that it's hightly probable tha nothing happens finally, if i publish it, and some of the authors reads it, but it's not totally sure, that's why i prefer to consult to a lawyer before i publish it, meantime, if any of you wants to read it, send me an i mail, i will send it to you, and after we can discuss much more about it, some people in this forum already sent me their i mail, and received my investigation.
Write me to investigationmalvinas@hotmail.com.ar
#125 Axel:
Aug 19th, 2011 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...it's because it's important for all of us...”
But it's not important to all of us. It's of no importance whatsoever to the vast majority of us. It's only important to the Falkland Islanders, as they are the ones whose lives will be changed irreversibly if the Islands are given away to Argentina. Everyone else's lives with carry on just as they are, whatever happens.
“...i was told in that institution that i should ask the authors of the bibliographies that i used, because maybe they dont want me to date them...”
That's just total nonsense, unless you're plagiarising their work (are you?). You can cite whoever you like and there's nothing they can do about it. There can't be many authors out there who aren't happy about their work being cited. It shows that people are reading it and taking it seriously. There's nothing worse for any serious academic than publishing something and nobody ever citing it.
CRACKPOT.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If i say that this issue is important for all of us, it's because everyone in this forum give their opinion respecting this sovereign dispute, no body is going to give an opinion if he doesn't care about this problematic.
Respecting what i was told in the istitution, i was very clear about it, anyway i need to consult to a lawyer before i publish it, i am not plagiarising the work, i already explained in another comment that my survey is a compilation of extracts of diferent professors who wrote about the historic and legal aspects of the malvinas-falkland conflict, and i dated they all, so, i can't be acused of any plagiarisem, meantime i only can offer you all my i mail adress, in order that you can get my investigation, i respect your opinion, but you dont know if you are a lawyer, and i need to consult to a professional.
Axel will have copyright problems with his paper as he includes whole tracts of text from a number of papers. I doubt it would be publishable in its current form. I have made a couple of points based on a brief scan but essentially he is regurgitating certain Argentine tracts that wouldn't stand up to too much scrutiny. He repeats a paper I've seen that “proves” there isn't a gap in Argentine protests, unfortunately it is rather loose in the way it defines protests as it includes things like the postal union and an international forum on venereal diseases. He might like to consider how that would stand up.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having said that his conclusions are not what you might have expected, in that he recognises Argentina's intransigence leaves no room for negotiation and that Argentina needs to co-operate with the islanders if there is ever to be any progress. Moreover he recognises that the Falkland Islanders have a say in their future.
1. see Notas de Matias Irigoyen 1819/1820, Archivo DEHN Caja 1.303 & Archivo General de la Nacion, Capitania de Puertos, caja 008 III.27.3.6
Aug 19th, 2011 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not enough? Notice to captains of 50-some-odd vessels with a formal
ceremony and a 21-gun salute, with continous official government presence after being duly relieved by another commissioned officer. That, preceded by Saavedra's own declaration during the May revolution. Not to mention the 1813 request to Buenos Aires by the British schooner “Henry Jones” to fish and hunt seals.
Why, I would ask, would a British-flagged vessel ask Buenos Aires for permission if Britain had never renounced sovereignty in 1771 or 1790?
I wonder...
2. Isolde, you're worried about insults? I'm worried about facts. Sticks and stones, you incorregible moron. Grow up.
3. Justin, of course he wasn't authorized by letters of Marque - they didn't exist! The only pirates Argentina has are the ones illegally settling Argentine territory in Malvinas, stealing resources while hiding behind british weapons of war - very EXPENSIVE weapons that won't be there forever. We're patient, don't worry.
4. If it wasn't important to you then you wouldn't be posting idiotic messages. Let's not delude ourselves. We are all here because we want the record to be straight. We realize if one side is the only voice on the internet then that's the side people will see.
The difference, of course, is that our arguments are well documented and corroborated by both Argentine and British officials as well as worldwide experts on the subjects...
....while your arguments (especially Justin's) are based on total fantasy and use of force. I know they're fantasy because Britain no longer supports its own historical claim, which it found to be indefensible. I know they're based on use of force because that's what you used in 1833 and in 1982 to defent your “acquisitive prescription”, aka “THEFT”. That's why I keep saying:
BRITISH SOVEREIGNTY IS A LIE TOLD AT THE POINT OF A GUN.
“weapons of war - very EXPENSIVE weapons that won't be there forever.”
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very true. They'll be replaced with new weapons when they start getting old =)
Yes, indeed! Unfortunately...THIS
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.debtbombshell.com/
is a factor (hence my mention of “EXPENSIVE”), and the solution requires....how should I put it?
“...l'apprentissage d'un peu de français”.
http://www.debtbombshell.com/
I want to see Sarkozy send one of his ships to support Islanders continuing to rake windfall profits from issuing licenses to exploit resources they steal.
I want to see Sarkozy using FRANCE'S NAVY to facilitate that theft.
IT * WILL * NEVER * EVER * HAPPEN.
HAAAAAHAHAHAA
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nelson & Bonaparte.....rolling over in their graves.....this is HILARIOUS!!!!
This is the future islanders. The merging of navy with the French....the riots...all of it, undeniable proof of an empire in decline, a decline with a slope that gets steeper by the the day.
Britain has historically had great need for Argentina's resources and its trade deficit is lower than ever. Your way of life has ZERO in common with the reality of Britain today. It's only a matter of time before Britain's debt forces Commons to put the resources they need over maintaining your “bubble” of post-war British society and exists now only in fairy tales and the islands that are rightly OURS. Britain's gaining of correct perspective on its dealings with Argentina will, inevitably, in time cause it to get its priorities straight....initially with defence budgets, and eventually with sovereignty, which will need to be resolved first before gains access to anything else.
So go ahead thieves, steal all you can, while you can. Because...
..YOUR TIME FOR ILLEGAL EXPLOITATIONS OF AREGNTINE RESOURCES UNDER THREAT OF FORCE WILL SOON BE AT AN END.
“IT * WILL * NEVER * EVER * HAPPEN.”
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agree. Won't need to. Firstly Argentina is unable to take the islands militarily(And as you Argentinians keep saying, you have no intention of invading again, right? :-) ).
Secdonly, in 10 years we'll have two of our own to use. :-)
But again, Why would we need them if Argentina has no intention of attacking them?
Also, I am of the mind that we would not even need an aircraft carrier to take the islands. Our subs could simply tomahawk your Airforces runways and wouldn't even need aircraft.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL....what are they gonna sing when they play the Marsellaise as they raise the Tricoleur????
Aug 19th, 2011 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0♫ “...allons enfants de la couronne d'Bretagne, les Argentins vont t'expulser...”♫
Tomahawks from that underwater Vickers rustbucket you call a submarine? She's so old the ignition would break her keel!
And in any case....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/8677600/Argentina-developing-nuclear-powered-submarine.html
...ARA Santa Fe would take it out as soon as she opened her doors. Your infrastructure is in decay - ours is on the rise. Equilibrium will soon be reached by Argentina....and passed.
I for one would like to see how you're going to get heavy oil rigs down there without use of an Argentine or Brazilian port.
Hermes1967 (#122)
Aug 19th, 2011 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”. . . .The merging of navy with the French....undeniable proof of an empire (the British Empire) in decline.”
Hermes,
The last empire of Europe was dismantled when I was young (and I am now an old man), and for other European empires, in the century before that.
The dismantling of the Spanish and Portuguese empires were a precursor to the creation of present-day Argentina, Brasil, Paraguay, Uruguay, etc, etc.
I think you must be pleased that the days of empire maintained by military superiority are largely over, but beware the new empire, maintained by economic power, that is already taking over your backyard.
Simple and progressive take-over and ownership of your land, industries, energy, food systems, communication systems, monetary systems, governments, etc, seems so much more satisfactory than bowing to a man with a big gun.
Even today, though, guns and economic control go hand in hand;
the guns may be held by your nationals, but progressively they will be pointed under direction of a large, non-South American nation.
The stripping and exporting of your nations' resources will progress at a rate unimaginable a generation ago;
and your generation will be the last to be able to survive as a free-standing nation, reliant on its own resources.
I'm curious Alejandro, if Jewett was an officer, then attacking neutral shipping would of course be an act of war. Does the Argentine navy make a habit of hijacking neutral shipping on the high seas and stealing its cargo.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I forgot, it seizes fishing vessels outside of its territorial waters so the answer is yes.
And how many times is Argentina going to announce its intention to make a nuclear sub? Last time you cut a perfectly good 209 sub in half and left it to rust. Does it not occur to you that the hull planform is too small for a nuclear power plant? Put a nuclear plant on a small sub and its so 'effing noisy a WW1 destroyer could find it with a hyrdrophone.
Anyone with half a brain would be looking at AIP but then anyone with half a brain would recognise that announcement for the fantasy that it is, another grand Argentine project announced that will never see the light of day.
And there weren't 50 odd vessels in the harbour at the time, thats a fantasy generated by Vernet in the paper he wrote for Moreno in 1834. There were very few, notice by the way that Weddell in the Jane was there before Jewett...as well as 50 odd other vessels there first if we take your warped version.
“Tomahawks from that underwater Vickers rustbucket you call a submarine? She's so old the ignition would break her keel! ”
Aug 19th, 2011 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our subs have and do fire Tomahawks, That's fact. And the Santa Fe? Really? lmao. You've yet the complete the thing in thirty years.
“The last empire of Europe was dismantled when I was young”...hmm, overseas colonies and dominions, a reigning monarch that issues decrees in council without judicial review, military deployments to foreign countries that never attacked it.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A rose by any other name.
“beware the new empire, maintained by economic power, that is already taking over your backyard.”
The only thing to fear is mismanagement and corruption. Economic power requires resources. We have them. You don't.
“Simple and progressive take-over and ownership of your land, industries, energy, food systems, communication systems, monetary systems, governments, etc, seems so much more satisfactory than bowing to a man with a big gun.”
Except since you no longer work in paradigm of force, you have less ability to “take over” if we don't want you to. We'll let you run it, sure, but the second we want you out - you're out. Ask IWL how it's Bolivian “Aguas de Tunari” stake worked out. See, there's a little concept of law called “eminent domain”.
And besides, we've learned out lesson. Unlike before, for every measure of resource you take, we get an equal measure of domestic industrial production as part of the process, and the knowledge and equipment it takes to build stability. The only reason you acquiesce on this is because you no longer have a choice.
“the guns may be held by your nationals, but progressively they will be pointed under direction of a large, non-South American nation.”
Really? Tell it to Chavez. Tell it to Fidel. Seems to me when you want to frame things in those terms, you've been on a losing streak.
“The stripping and exporting of your nations' resources will progress at a rate unimaginable a generation ago; and your generation will be the last to be able to survive as a free-standing nation, reliant on its own resources.”
You vastly underestimate South America's resources. We'll have full industry long before they're gone. Think about that when you fly an embraer plane.
More fantasy from Justin.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jewett did not commit an act of war, he was attacked - and the Carlotta incident is well documented in the logs. The United Provinces were at war with Spain and an unidentified vessel was sighted on 27 July off Cape Verde - she was ordered to heave to and ignored this. When Jewett attempted to send one of his officers on a launch at hauling distance her reply was an UNPROVOKED BROADSIDE. Neutral shipment or not, she had 22 guns and her master saw fit to use them against “Heronia” without provocation, who returned her own broadside and then LEGALLY boarded her to take her a prize.
As far as a nuclear Santa Fe, you're right, a conventional reactor wouldn't fit and would be too loud. But it's not 1990 anymore. As I said before, we're patient - and good things come to those who wait:
http://www.economist.com/node/17647651
A lot of autonomy in a tiny package, silently running in a boat that can outmaneouvre and outgun a vickers any day of the week and twice on sunday. You think Argentina can't make it happen? Watch us.
Weddell's activities took place in what, to his mind, were Terra Nullis. Jewett set him straight on that and he took it none too well. Perhaps understandable given Jewett's renowned temperament, no doubt exacerbated by two mutinies, scurvy, and the loss of Carlotta during a storm. Nevertheless, it was Weddell who first concocted the story about Jewett not having proper orders, the first fantasy of many to come.
As for the 50 vessels not being there....“Justin”-your-head.
“boat that can outmaneouvre and outgun a vickers any day of the week and twice on sunday”
Aug 19th, 2011 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But they can't. The latest British subs are faster, quieter, do not need to surface and have a greater weapons load than anything Argentina has. I don't get where you assume any of the above from.
Infact, so did the last generation of British subs.
Where do I get it? Facts. The Argentina's TR-1700 class have better radius of action and autonomy than both the current Trafalgar and previous Swiftsure classes. Argentine TR-1700s sail 6,900NM (6,300 submerged) in 29 days, averaging 10kts daily and only snorkeling 2 hours a day, arriving with a fuel reserve of over 50%. Not to mention the TR-1700 can out-turn and out-gun both Trafalgar and Swiftsure h-k's. So keep dreaming.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Erm, in what world do you work that out?
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TR-1700 goes 25 knots Submerged with a range of 22,000 if going at half speed to reduce fuel usage.
While a Trafalgar class submarine goes 32 knots with an unlimited range at full speed without the need to snorkle. Triumph did 41,000 miles in 98 days from the UK to Australia. Basic maths on your own Tr-700's would have them doing about 25,000 miles in the same time.
“out-turn”
Proof?
“out-gun”
TR-1700 - 22 torpedoes
Trafalgar - 30 torpedoes
Given that in a sub on sub battle, the first one to hit would win. Our subs are fitted with anechoic tiles that make them much harder to detect. The TR-1700 is not.
“better radius of action”
Trafalgar - only needs food, thee to four months.
TR-1700 - 30 days.
Again, Triumph sailed to Austrailia without any support whatsoever. A TR-1700 could not do this.
he is just winding you up.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he know the argies have only tin cans,
they cant beat us on the waves-or under the waves-so throw mud to the wind, just like some others i can -think of ?
Also. The current weaponry of the subs is drastic in comparison.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK subs - Spearfish torpedo - 1998 - 2003. 54 km, 80 knots.
Argentine subs - Mark 37 - 1950s. 21 km, 17 knots.
Briton. The funny part about it is that a Trafalgar class submarine could actually out run one of there torpedos, lmao.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0agreed,
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they have nothing-and are unlikly to have anything worth the worry,
when the carriers get here, argentina will be a thing of dreams,
but as we all know, they wont be in service till cir 2020, but if im correct,
they will be in the water under a progame of tests by cir 2015,
so in an emergency ??
poor argentine bloggers , nothing but repeats just like watching [tv] lol
TR-1700 2350T, 6 tubes
Aug 19th, 2011 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trafalgar Class, 5200T, 5 tubes
do the math.
“30 days/Triumph sailed to Australia” did you read what I posted above?
6,900NM in 29 days, averaging 10kts daily and only snorkeling 2 hours a day, arriving with a fuel reserve of over 50%.
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA281747
A nuclear ARA Santa Fe raises this exponentially.
“Only needs food” EXACTLY - you'd need a 8,000-mile-long supply line.
You're also wrong about the Mk37 torps, they are in fact Atlas SSt-4 Mod 1 and SUT 226, which a Trafalgar could run from only long enough for it to reach that perfect spot just below the keel fore of the screw, and boom.
Besides I'm still waiting to see Sceptre's replacement...
“when the carriers get here”
Oh you mean those FRENCH carriers?
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA281747
Looks like Patrick O'Brian might have to re-write his novels for the 21st century.
“THREE CHEERS FOR LUCKY JACQUES!!”
Chinese whispers again ..
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“TR-1700 2350T, 6 tubes
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trafalgar Class, 5200T, 5 tubes”
One extra tube isn't going to help when our torpedos have double the range and three times the speed.
“A nuclear ARA Santa Fe raises this exponentially. ”
It will STILL be slower. 25 knots is slower than 32.
“Only needs food” EXACTLY - you'd need a 8,000-mile-long supply line. “
Erm, no. As i said A trafalgar submarine went 41,000 miles without any support or surfacing once.
”Oh you mean those FRENCH carriers?”
Carrier* France has only one. We're building two.
Care to post a link to those Torpedos, Never heard of them.
You basicly said that TR-1700 is superior to the Trafalgar, Which is incorrect in every fashion. There is not one single part of the TR-1700 that is superior to the Trafalgar in any way.
Perhaps he is suggesting that the USA and Great Britain
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0has just wasted billions of pounds/dollars on silly out dated subs, -when all the time they could have bought these brilliant 30 year old argentine super subs at 50 quid each,
well well, you learn something every day on here,
have you thought of writing to the defence ministry of both countries with your ideas,
the reply would be most interesting [would it not]
Thank you Ailing - I've passed your reference on to Argentina.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll let you know what comes back.
You are going to be famous :-)
“Atlas SSt-4 Mod 1 and SUT 226”
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Atlas torpedo is still half the range of a British torpedo and just under three times slower.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA724&lpg=PA724&dq=Atlas+SSt-4+Mod+1&source=bl&ots=hIStPXZ291&sig=JOuWnajxnXR61HqkgfkhlsxGW6M&hl=en&ei=GO9OTpyKOpSIhQe4g_zUBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Atlas%20SSt-4%20Mod%201&f=false
Oh, I forgot to ask Ailing - is this all your own work, or have you picked the reference up from a book or other publication ? If so, a title would be useful please.
Aug 19th, 2011 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'll be an Argentine hero !
JUSTIN 118.
Aug 20th, 2011 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't criticise only the fact that our government doesn't do anything to try to build a better relation with the islanders, or intransigence, however you prefer to call it, i also criticised hardly the posture of the islanders.
On the other hand, i have always said that it's not imposible to find a fair solution for both, i will always defend the fact that the inhabitants from the malvinas-falklands should be incorporated in the negotiations, in case that they are resumed, but i dont think it finally happens some day, unless in the case of argentina, it has always manifested that it's dispose to renew the safeguards and guarantees for the the islanders, which had been negotiated with the u. k. before 1982, that was what Timerman said in hes statement before the decolonization committee.
Finally i want to say that it's important for me that you all read my investigation, because it's necesary to take into account the arguments of both sides, no matter if we agree or not eachother, but the only one way of finishing with this dispute, is debating.
I am the voice of the average Argentine and I believe it is time for the final solution to las malvinas problem!
Aug 20th, 2011 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's some time since we had a real troll really losing it.
Aug 20th, 2011 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enjoy.
I am the voice of the mysterons ??
Aug 20th, 2011 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The final solution = Falklands 3-argentine 0,
.
FlipFlop as the voice of reason lol
Aug 20th, 2011 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry FlipFlop, there isn't a problem!
Irritation perhaps, but no problem.
@119 Alejandro,
Aug 21st, 2011 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0l'm not worried about ANYTHING that you say. lt's been proved over and over, idiot, that ALL your “facts” are lies.
l was merely pointing out that you insult people in every posting, yet you don't like to be insulted. ln short mr lying, not hot, can't take it, make-facts-up-to-support-Argentina's-lies,Argentine you are a complete moron. Just like that other Argentine plonker, Martin_Fierro.
Argentine sovereignty over stolen Chilean & stolen Paraguayan land is:-
“MAINTAINED AT THE POINT OF THE GUN”
LADRONES, PIRATS,ARGENTINOS HIJOS DE PUTAS
But apart from that, have a nice day.
Alejandro is wrong.
Aug 21st, 2011 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Heroina opened fire on the Carlota first, the Carlota made a run for it and fired a broadside when the Heroina pursued her.
Heroina was Frigate mounting 34 big guns, the Carlota a sloop one of the smaller ships of the time, with 22.
That was an act of piracy, they opened fire on a neutral ship for refusing to stop.
When is argentina going to go to the ICJ
Aug 21st, 2011 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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