MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Mercosur/Israel trade deal comes into effect following Argentina’s signature
A free trade agreement between Israel and Argentina is set to come into effect on September 9, the Israeli Industry, Trade and Labour Ministry announced this week. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Israel’s Deputy Director of the Industry, Trade and Labour Ministry Boaz Hirsch” is this man related to Elena Olazábal de Hirsch and Mario Hirsch? The world is so small hahaha what was bad for a reason is good for a different reason :)
Aug 26th, 2011 - 06:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://agendaganadera.com/blog/2009/08/elena-olazabal-de-hirsch/
This trade deal would, of course, have been blocked by Chavez.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really Geoff?
Aug 26th, 2011 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And it should have been blocked. Aside from its modern military equipment and chemical products, Israel also exports agriculture goods from illegal Jewish colonies in the West Bank, something that, needless to say, is not allowed under international law.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The majority of Israeli agro-export is not right for Mercosur - flowers and citrus.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Israeli agricultural sector export value is based almost entirely on science-linked technology. The Israeli Agricultural Research Organization (ARO), accounts for nearly 75 percent of all nationwide agricultural research. ARO developments, particularly in irrigation, arid zone agriculture and unique varieties of fruits, vegetables and ornamentals have been commercialized in Israel and abroad. MASHAV (their ODA) has been working in Latin America for over 60 years.
Israeli R&D - ranging from plant genetics and blight control to new plant varieties/animal breeds and arid zone cultivation (irrigation, water-saving especially drip-irrigation, fertilisation, machinery, automation, chemicals, cultivation and harvesting). - has developed science-based technologies, which have dramatically enhanced the quantity and quality of the country's produce and international trade interactions.
We can learn from the Israeli National Water Carrier, an integrated network of pumping stations, reservoirs, canals and pipelines, and to use more saline and/or recycled wastewater and less potable water. In the sertao, we need Israel’s 'greening the desert', and cultivation of new citrus varieties with Israeli-type yields using drip-irrigation technology.
Barmidgh, the Israeli journal of fish farming is arguably the world’s best guide to dryland pisciculture: tilapia, mullet, carp, trout, bass and silver carp. We have so much to learn and emplace.
Though labour is currently cheap in Brasil/Latin America, we will soon need, inter alia, Israeli automated milking and dairy herd management systems, egg-collecting equipment, computerized feeding systems and production-recording - and markets-linked - computing systems.
Geoff, if you're going to copy and paste from assorted external sources, you could just have pointed me to the links. http://mashav.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/Print.asp?DocumentID=41018
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://mashav.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/Print.asp?DocumentID=41018
None of “your” wordy paragraphs address my point - that much of Israel agriculture goods - I'm not talking about agricultural technology - are exported from the West Bank, and thus sustain the economy of an illegal colonial enterprise. And neither do I think that, when it comes to agriculture, Brazil and Argentina have much to learn from Israel - or anyone else for that matter, aside, perhaps, from the US or Australia.
You are right about US ag-res. and the aussie CSIRO; both are really good, but CSIRO and the ARO are the dry-land specialists. Do not under-estimate the ARO, it leads the world in so many areas.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm afraid I dont have the refs for my posting #5, just C&P from my old lecturing notes.
You will gather that the topic is close to my heart.
I did not address your political point because I don't think you can substantiate your assertion about export from territories won in war being illegal under international law.
It is considered illegal even by the UN, the only body charged with international law affairs. Even the US government adresses the settlement issue under this perspective. And Geoff - the Hobbesian right of conquest isn't recognized under international law either. If it did, then it wouldn't even make sense to have an international law, since force alone could be used to legitimize changes in borders between countries.
Aug 26th, 2011 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'm afraid I dont have the refs for my posting #5, just C&P from my old lecturing notes”
Which “coincidentally” are worded the same way as the Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry and the Jewish Library. Perhaps they learned about Israel from your lectures? :)
Geoff……
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Give it up…..
The young ones are coming.......
In this Google era, old, appearances prone dinosaurs like you (and me) don’t stand a chance…..
It took you decades to optimize that “Bright & British Academic” façade of yours…..
It takes just minutes for a juvenile intelligent thinker to tear it down…..
Learn to “Think” anew or follow Darwin’s law and become extinct with some dignity…..
Thanks for your thoughts, Think (#9).
Aug 27th, 2011 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The young man must be respected when he is right, and he will become more frequently right as he gets older and gains more experience. Even now he is my main benchmark over a range of Mercopress issues.
You will find no(?) errors of fact in my postings,
many points of disageement on perspective,
and well researched responses that are frequently supplemented through web-sources.
Nothing wrong with a good web-source with your cornflakes; it can help your own thoughts become even more 'digestible'.
Is Forgetit (#8) right about trading products on the world market from lands appropriated in war? (The 6 Day, 2nd? Arab-Israeli War/West Bank argument)
I doubt it.
(though he claims to be a student of international law, so his further response should be interesting).
How far back do you go, and what might you include?
Should greater Argentina be allowed to trade independently if the land was won through war against Spain and against the eg. Patagonians?
Should TFI be allowed to trade independently because it was re-won from Argentina?
Should Texas be allowed to trade independently because it was part of Mexico and won through war?
Should Uruguay/Paraguay be allowed to trade independently because it was once overrun by the Argentines/Brasilians?
Or Kosovo, or Armenia, or South Ossetia, or Iraq, or Libya, . . . . . . .
Is the argument one of 'contention' and disagreement over status?
For if so, every nation on earth at some time or other has changed ownership with disagreement?
Perhaps we should ALL be stopped by the United Nations from trading
;)
I don't wish to waste time with you but I do want to note that young Forgetit86-87 is absolutely right about the legal status of Israel and the Occupied Territories……
Aug 27th, 2011 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just keep “Keeping up Appearances” , Mr. Bucket.
You are as successful as Ms. Bouquet.........
The once evil Israel is now everybody's sweetheart :) money, money, money, it's a rich man's world and everything is forgiven and forgotten with lots of money :)
Aug 27th, 2011 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[Please don't feel the need to reply, Think.]
Aug 27th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he is talking about the world as you wish it should be,
not the way it really is. For instance, 'legal status' should not be confused with right-to-trade.
Real politik.
The trading dilemmas are the reality of the 'messy' world we live in,
and life continues in its everyday patterns of trade.
Where mbargos happen, for good reasons or bad, they are temporary features and, even for the likes of North Korea, they rarely last for longer than a lifetime.
Back in the real world, Israel can bring so much new-development to South American technology, agro-tech, and agriculture; especially for those realistic countries such as the Mercosur countries, that are prepared to embrace the partnership.
“Real politik................The trading dilemmas are the reality of the 'messy' world we live in, and life continues in its everyday patterns of trade.”
Aug 27th, 2011 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well..................
The above sounds like the Argentinean strategy to end the British ocupation
of Malvinas, with a little help of our friends, the realistic Mercosur countries, in the near future...............
Have another think about what you just wrote - you may want to have another go.
Aug 27th, 2011 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Geoff
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your analogy between Texas and the West Bank is bogus, and you probably know it. For example, unlike Texans in the US, the Arabs from the West Bank don't enjoy the same civil rights guaranteed by the Israeli constitution to Israeli citizens and Jewish settlers. If the WB is indeed Israeli territory, then it must be recognized that the Israeli political system is quite similar to that of South Africa during the apartheid: two laws for one and the same nationality. Plus, not even Israel itself claims the West Bank as part of the country; instead, it'll say that the West Bank is occupied territory, and remains so because of security issues (read something by Israeli military scholar Dr. Martin van Creveld on this issue; he doesn't believe Israeli security depends on holding the West Bank, or the Golam Heights for that matter, under occupation).
And Geoff, Israeli clout on the international arena is very limited; and so are the economy benefits of a partnership with such a small country. Israel in fact derives much of its power (to say nothing of its survival prospects) from its partnership with the US. Now, who can guarantee this partnership will live for much longer? Former sponsors of Israel - the Soviet Union and France - eventually got tired of that country and recognized the Arab world as being more important politically and economically. I believe Mercosur countries think the same way. The Arab world offers a much larger market for Mercosur products: not only foodstuff but also manufactures, as Mercosur countries are more industrialized than the Arab world. And apparently it isn't only our leftist, biased leaders who think that way. In 1975 Brazil aligned with the Arabs in voting at the General Assembly to consider Zionism as a form of racism. Why do you think BR did that? As we were under a military, right-wing regime, I won't accept 'ideology' as a justification. President Geisel probably saw pratical benefits in a closer relationship with the Arabs.
Re. your Golam Heights, there is a Golam in Jewish mythology -
Aug 28th, 2011 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0probably mutated to Gollum in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings books, in much the same way that Smeagol did.
Immediately after the 6 Day/2nd Arab-Israeli War, Israel was willing to give up the Golan in exchange for peace with Syria; however, Syria refused to negotiate. Hence 242, and the real politik of posession, pertains.
Like Texas (Mexico/USA), you'll probably find all my examples are somewhat 'bogus' because initial state, change processes and outcomes are always specific to the time and the geography; but the principle holds true, as does my #10 argument .
Re. Israel's ''lack of clout' -
internationally, the money markets of the world are powerfully influenced by the Jewish diaspora; influence is through associations rather than through isolation; location in the pivotal centre of the Middle East is internationally important; and the ownership of nuclear weapons make Israel 'full of clout'.
I gave you a string of advantages that Israel might offer Mercosur in the pacific field of dryland agro-technology rather than simple food export, but be assured also, this little country can punch above its weight in many international spheres.
The only benefit you cited regarding a partnership with Israel, is the passive acquisition of Israeli technology. Unless Israel's willing to transfer technology, this isn't something interesting for Mercosur manufacturers in the long-term.
Aug 28th, 2011 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And again: Israel's has no influence on the world system. If the rich Jewish diaspora can indeed influence world markets to close ranks behind Israel, why then is Israel in a position of such dependency to the US? Why does it keep asking US military and financial aid? Why's Israel always needed another country's financial and technological assistence: something proven by its previous associations with the Soviet Union and France? Why do countries nowadays feel so free to confront Israel regarding its occupation of the West Bank? The US veto was the one thing precluding a SC resolution against the settlements from being passed this year. All other countries - including France, Germany and the UK - approved of the resolution: which could be just the 1st step in imposing sanctions on Israel. Israel's nuclear technology (acquired from France) doesn't change that by itself. Pakistan too owns nuclear weapons: and it's little more than a pariah state. And I'm not even going to talk about North Korea.
As for the Golan Heights, I'm unaware of any Israeli offer to fully withdraw from the area to pre-67 borders. Instead, Israel's said only that it could withdraw to pre-48 borders. That means Syria would have to lose access to a sea that it controled before the 67 war. That's the reason Israeli plans have been rejected: it's not because Israel only wants peace and its neighbors do not (a laughable proposition).
On your ridiculous comparison between the West Bank and Texas, I think the differences are deeper than regional conjuntures alone. Israel itself doesn't claim the West Bank as part of Israel, instead classing it as occupied territory. And West Bank natives aren't treated the same as Israeli citizens.
: Israel's help of military equipment in 1982 to argentina, via peru,
Sep 01st, 2011 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0seals their friendship, perhaps one day, they can both share the same new cross .
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