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“Politics in my country needs major reform” say 82% of Chilean 20 to 29 youth
Impassioned youth across Chile have taken to the streets by the hundreds of thousands this year to demand radical education reform. Yet four months in, the students are no longer just talking about education costs and access. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThis movement has been leaded by the comunist party members on the student board and teachers union and the general labor union (CUT)....starting with the educational issue and when it was just to be saved, then they added another issue no related to the first to esxtend the conflict on and on....If the youth think that changed must be done to the Chilean political scheme, they had the right to vote (if over 18 years old) and express their wish through the constitutional ways on the Parliament where the laws are made by the representatives of all the citiziens.....if they are the majority, they could change the status quo.....if not, they must accept the what the Congressmen decide. That is what DEMOCRACY is called......Otherway, if we will be leaded by the polls (not serius enough the most) we just will be running to the cliff....
Sep 10th, 2011 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SO, TO THE CHILEAN YOUTH........PLEASE USE YOUR RIGHT AND BE ON THE BALLOT CABINET NEXT TIME.......AND YOU CAN BE REAL CITIZIENS AND LATER ASK FOR YOUR RIGHTS......AFTER HAVE MADE YOUR DUTIES. .......DON´T BE COWARDS, IT DOESN´T BIT........
grow up
Sep 10th, 2011 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like the large majority of Chileans have decided already, Piñera is done.
Sep 10th, 2011 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, Fido, No Marcos,
Sep 10th, 2011 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0street violence is never right in a democracy.
That's why we choose democracy, so resolution and change can operate through the ballot box.
Sergio is right in demanding 'resposibilities' to accompany 'rights'.
But he must be on guard to spot the drift from democracy that may come from the self-seeking Right, Left and Centre. Not all supposed democracies stack-up against the criteria when you examine them closely, hence the need to have a two/multi party system to offer alternatives of choice to the voters.
probably that Sergio Vega is a Chilean politician or the nominee
Sep 10th, 2011 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0for the next election ....!!
4 GeoffWard2 Sergio is right? A few days ago he claimed that the killing of a teenager by a police officer was justified. The only crime he commited at that time was pushing his disable brother wheelchair.
Sep 10th, 2011 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos, #6, (sigh), re. #4,
Sep 10th, 2011 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you know it is not a crime, per se, to push a wheelchair.
The crime is to engage in riot, to set Molotov-fire to the people tasked with law and order, and to kill them; also to burn cars and buildings, to rob and indulge in mayhem of destruction.
Some or all of these pertained exactly where and when this young man was quietly going his own way -
- was he, perhaps, totally oblivious of the above mass riot, fires, water-cannons, burning vehicles, blood on the street, tear-gas, baton-rounds, etc, etc.?
I paint the picture for you and I hope see there is a point being made.
And I make no comment on whether the 16 year old and his minder were engaged in the riot and mayhem or were innocent passers-by.
But if the latter, and I were the young man's dad, I would be bringing a civil case against the minder who pushed my son into the riot zone and to his death.
The height of *ir*responsibility in the persuance of a 'right' by the wrong means.
7 GeoffWard2
Sep 10th, 2011 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hundreds of thousands of Chilean workers and students took part in strikes and demonstrations against social inequality and the privatization of education. The government of right-wing billionaire Piñera responded with repression and violence. Rioters were a small minority and shouldn' be used as an excuse to hide the real issue.
About the murder of that unarmed boy:
http://www.santiagotimes.cl/chile/human-rights-a-law/22374-new-developments-in-case-of-chilean-teen-killed-by-police
Marcos,
Sep 10th, 2011 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if only 1 in 10 were rioters that still makes tens of thousands of rioters.
If inly 1 in a hundred were rioters that still makes thousands of rioters.
Tell me, Marcos, if thousands of people are rioting, is it the State's duty to preserve law and order? (Rhetorical)
We have visual evidence of the riots and the results - it's not as if the 'public'' were angels and the authorities devils; perhaps quite the reverse. What the rioters were doing was trying to change the political order by violence and insurrection.
This is, of course, not the way in a democratic state and, if you argue otherwise you are advocating a non-democratic solution to the imbalances of Chilean society.
If this is the case, please confirm, and we will know better where you stand.
It is not improbable that a different party and leader will emerge from the next election. He/she will, of course, have to deal with 'undemocratic riots and attempts to overturn the state' in their turn.
Knowing what happens in crowd control with this one 'lost bullet', they will have to screw down society using the army and police - a bit like North Korea.
This will be claimed as a victory for the proletariat, making all men beautifully Orwellianly equal, and offering just one form of indoctrinated state education.
Mass rallies of serried ranks, one state propaganda machine, an economy based on social provision rather than income generation, a powerful leader who assumes a senior role in his military, a constitutional amendment to allow the President to remain in power indefinitely . . . . my, this is beginning to sound like Chavez's Venezuela.
No, I think change through the true democratic process is much more preferable because although the above (nightmare) scenario might still be the outcome, it will happen with the recurrent considered vote of all the people; it is the States duty to provide the checks and balances to ensure that continuing democracy is not circumvented.
“you are advocating a non-democratic” What??
Sep 10th, 2011 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop emphasizing over a small minority of troublemakers to hide the hundreds of thousands of law-abiding Chileans taking part in democratic demonstrations against their government policies, remember Pinochet is dead and Piñera is done.
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201108041345dowjonesdjonline000565&title=chile-president-pineras-approval-rating-at-record-low-26poll
law-abiding
Marcos, don't waste your time to discuss issues in Latin America with a clown who doesn't understand the region.
Sep 10th, 2011 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GeoffWard and his/her impersonal commets ....
Sep 11th, 2011 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0he/she has a vague thoughts like “ briton” !!
You (we) have the right to protest peacefully
Sep 11th, 2011 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you (we) have the responsibility not to riot.
These are not vague thoughts - they are the tenets of orderly society in South America and the whole world over.
You make some very sound points, Geoff.
Sep 11th, 2011 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to people I spoke with in Chile, many young people protesting now did not bother to exercise their voting power. They should understand the importance of using a democratic system rather than mob rule to achieve change. The students have the right to peaceful protest and all of the protests I saw two months ago were innocuous. One has to question why it has escalated and I suspect that as they are changing their original agenda that they are being used as political puppets.
I absolutely support their objective for change to the education system. It badly lets down the less fortunate and benefits hugely the wealthy, the wealthy school owners and the banks that fund the prohibitive fees. Chile can afford a good and equal education system.
When I visited a foundation in Santiago that supports 200+ students through university they explained that the cost per student is about $10,000 per year and a minimum degree is five years. They further explained that their courses are so long because the average student education is so bad at secondary level. (By comparison the average bachelor's degree in the UK is 3 years). So improvement at all levels of education needs addressing. It was further explained that there was a lack of will for change because it does not benefit the owners of the universities or the banks that make the student loans to alter a system that might reduce their profits.
There must be a reason that some posters seek to shut down any discussion on a discussion forum.
Well, Geoff.....you´r so clear about what I have posted here.....I didn´t deny the right to protest peacefuly, but I have asked that if any wants to change the laws , specialy the Constitution, then they must exercise fis right/duty to vote....that´s the only democratic way to keep the country in order and stable for the welfare of the all people......
Sep 12th, 2011 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you take a look back over the start of the educational issue, it´s clear that its problems start long time ago, and can be separated many causes for it.....like bad preparation of the teachers, its low recognition whitin the society accompanied with low incomes, politically used by the leftist parties to insert their thoughts in the youth starting at a very tender age, no evaluation accepted by teachers union and a Teacher´s Statute that kept them unaffordable to be fired by their perfomance and interest and a Children Rights Statement with no Children Duty Statement side by side. We have massified the volume but not the quality of our educational system, so we need to make changes as the Gvt. is doing...better incomes and scholarships to the students of teaching that have got high result in the PSU (test for college acceptation), foreign internships, a new Educational Superintendence to watch over the quality improvements, more budget % for the education.....But, there is a ideological issue in the middle.....the profit. It has been used as a waepon to keep the fire on....I have no room enough here to explain how our educational system is working about, so i´ll wait for a next posting to continue.....
Please continue.......
Sep 12th, 2011 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have been argued that we can´t spent gvt. money on the private education and all of it must be spent on the state owned schools and colleges meanly due an ideological reason but not for a practical reason...Unfortunately, in Chile, the concept that what is state owned bleong to nobody becuase it belong to all....so, the school principals, technichal board and teachers in a state owned school are not concerned if the funds are well spent, if the teachers do well their work, if the parents take care of their pupils properly, if the students assist to class rooms, if they take care of the goods inside and pay attention to the teachers, if trainning enough to the teachers is offered. Opposed to this is in a private school where the owner best propaganda is that their students get goods results in education, have good manners, be nice persons and get the capabilities to be selected to the colleges at the final of the middle level.....where the parents are concerned about what their children get from the school what they are paying some money for. What is a gift is not valuated as it must be, just because it has not cost (directly, of course) so ti can be wasted....For my experience at college when it was for free long time ago, from 200 freshmen at my career just 4 finished on time (4 years), another 4 of us finished with 1 year delay and a total of 20 got their diploma at the 7th year....the most were outed the 2nd year because missing classes or just “have not finger for the piano”, but a lot of money wae wasted on them....with no results. So, I think that college must have funds for every student with skills enough but the money must be refunded with a very low interest rate that make the youth be awarded that their future won´t be a gift but they will earn it....Will be continued, if any want so..
Sep 12th, 2011 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sergio, #15, 17,
Sep 12th, 2011 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are so RIGHT!
These are issues I have wrestled with through much of my working life in England where I trained teachers (professors) for Primary and Secondary teaching. I spent much time in schools in England both State and Private (Preparatory and Independent Secondary).
All the issues you raise for Chile occur elsewhere in the world, but the Chile 'solution' of banning independent education is almost non-existent in the rest of the world.
There are obvious reasons why this is so - a most important one is that these independent schools provide a benchmark of performance and achievement against which State schools can be measured.
There is much need to improve the state education system of Chile - doing ALL the things you suggest.
There is an even greater need to do it here in Brasil, where performances of, and within, state schools are even worse, and the most educationally-needy are (as ever) the most undemanding .
Both our countries (CH & BR) aspire to be Developed nations; this can only happen with a largely-well-educated and largely-skills-trained population and workforce.
This is PRIORITY NUMBER 1 in the development of nations.
You have, for what it might be worth, all my support.
A ver Sergio Vega
Sep 12th, 2011 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Según entiendo para vos la educación no es un regalo y por lo tanto hay que pagar por ella y porque sea buena educación.
Bueno algo conozco del tema en mi país. Desconozco en profundidad lo que pasa en Chile, como para meterme a opinar.
Desde mi país, te puedo decir, que la educación es un derecho que tiene que garantizar el estado a todos los estratos sociales de la población. En una América Latina caracterizada por sus contrastes sociales, que no voy a negar, el estado tiene que intervenir igualando las posibilidades para que nadie quede relegado de acceder a la instrucción. Sino, la educación se torna en una mercancía al mejhor postor y a la que solo tienen acceso ciertos grupos sociales. Maestros hay de todo tipo y de toda clase en el estado como en la educación privada.
No me parece mal reclamar por educación pública. En Latino América y en mi país se estila reclamar, peticionar, marchar, para intentar cambiar situaciones que se sienten injustas e inequitativas. Y de ahí que el congreso y la gente evalue si es necesario o no. Democracia es participación, es reunirse, es debatir, dialogar, es exigir que nos representen bien los funcionarios, no es represión, no es castigar, tomar medidas contra quienes necesitan ser escuchados, sobre todo cuando lo que dicen no es ilógico o un problema que muchos padecen y se podría mejorar.
Si se borra que se borre......no me sale el inglés fácil today
I don't think that banning Independent schools is the answer. Parents are entitled to choice. But there has to be greater investment in the free education and this starts with teacher training, improving the environment, curriculum etc.
Sep 13th, 2011 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I haen't visited schools in Chile, yet, but some of the free schools I visited in Buenos Aires were so badly underfunded that I wouldn't have let a dog fo into the classrooms, let alone a child. How they are expected to learn without books and supplies is beyond me. The teachers explained how har it is to motivate the pupils to learn in such difficult circumstances. Equally, the pupils complained about the conditions they were in and the constant disruptions cause by their teachers striking so often.
Geoff, I read the information you kindly gave me about the incentives to try to get children to stay in school in Brazil. One of the flaws in the system seems to be that the finacial incentive is not in anyway performance related. So, a pupil just has to occasionally show up for the family to receive the money. Is this correct?
Así como hay escuelas céntricas muy requeridas y valoradas, también hay escuelas públicas periféricas de Bs As que tienen menos ventajas que las escuelas más céntricas.
Sep 13th, 2011 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hay ciertas condiciones sociales que deberían modificarse más allá de la escuela.Pero sin la escuela pública, estos chicos de sectores desfavorables, no tendrían el acceso a la educación. No pueden pagar educación privada.
Se tendría que mejorar sí, pero por lo menos ese derecho lo tienen.
Acá a Argentina, vienen muchos chilenos, colombianos, etc a estudiar a nuestra universidad pública.
Y el que puede pagar privada que pague.
@21 I agree. My point is that the free schools need more funding. There is a distinct three-tier system of private, church and state schools. The state schools I visited were awful. Better than nothing but only just.
Sep 13th, 2011 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have met many a Colombian in Buenos Aires studying at the public universities. At least, they said they were studying but I never saw much evidence of it. : ) I suspect they were enjoying living in BsAs too much.
“Politics in my country needs major reform”
Sep 13th, 2011 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0say 82% of 20-29 year old adults *of any country across the world.*
If young adults do not agree with this proposition there is little future for any country.
This is a question with as much dicrimination as “Is God good? What do you think of the Devil?”
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