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Paris Club group lays out terms for Argentina to repay defaulted debt

Monday, October 10th 2011 - 07:58 UTC
Full article 32 comments

Members of the Paris Club group of creditors want Argentina to repay an estimated 9 billion dollars in defaulted debt within three years and to make a big initial payment, Buenos Aires newspaper La Nacion reported over the weekend. Read full article

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  • GeoffWard2

    “. . . Buenos Aires media said that in exchange for agreeing to a higher payment, Argentina would try to extend the repayment period to five or six years from the 18 months the creditors initially requested.”

    This is silly,
    Argentina wants/needs
    huge new injections of loan-money SOON;
    return to the credit markets needs to be SOON;
    RAPID agreement with the Paris Club conditions;
    RAPID return to the credit markets.
    In 'five to six years' and without credit, Argentina will have long collapsed and sunk without a trace.

    Say yes,
    suffer the austerity necessary,
    and rejoin the world community.

    Argentina has been too long living in the wilderness as a fiancial 'untouchable', a pariah in the world economy.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    CFK is running out of other people's money to spend. Where is she going to get the money she needs?

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    My bet is she will go after Union Dues and their medical insurance dues after the elections. She will say they are being mis-managed throw some people in jail and write an executive order to confiscate the cash flow and deposits. The pattern was set with Anses and it will happen with the Unions just wait then the gov't will have concentrated all the $ with themselves. Scary!

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @3 Interesting. I guess she is limited for choice. It is no wonder she coverts TFI's future oil revenues. When she has looted her own country she has to look elsewhere.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zool

    Well she did raid the Argentinian pension funds for $29bn saying it would “protect” retirees from the global financial crisis. The fund total was around $90 bn at the time so still lots of money for her to get her hands on. Her loyal followers who will retire in 30 years will suddenly find she has royally screwed them.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    And most the the Anses hard $ deposits have been converted to Arg Bonds. Same amount of Assets just now they are worthless and can be “fixed” w/ a gov't account gimmick. The union balances and cash flow could keep the country rolling for another year but she will have a battle on her hands. It will be interesting to watch.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rosarino

    Dear, Argentina's debt with the Paris Club is based on purchases of arms of Argentina in the decade of 80, a military government.
    Nobody is in a hurry to pay the Paris Club.
    Moreover, here is thought to be paid only to maintain some “dignity”, but the payment or not change anything under our credit situation: 10 years ago defolteo debt, nobody pays anything, so the state finances to itself with the workers' money (ANSESS) policy that, despite not trust this government, particularly I applaud, it is better to owe us money in legal terms that deberselos ourselves to you;)
    The internal political leverage was very good, our debt situation vs. GDP changed dramatically, we are close to 450 billion dollars of debt 160/70 ... not bad, when in the 90's, with your policies, we were in 200 vs 130 .... estammos much more comfortable now, we pay more to our retirees, we provide free health and education and immigration from all countries, including Europeans, is growing-

    One of my best friends here is English;)

    Greetings and keep looking, we have regained our self-esteem and will continue to grow and pay our debts to our time.

    Did you know that our first central bank was the Bank of England?

    We are full of surprises;)

    regards

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    this is invalid l news ...
    BUT
    if the Paris Club insist on ( i doubt) some pay back of Arg. , the
    Chinese stands by to swap it ....!!!

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @ 7. Some of the point you make remind me of one of my Argentine friends. She has run up some significant credit card debts but doesn't think she should have to pay the debt back. She gets through life well enough taking jobs where she is paid 'on the black', so has enough for a comfortable life. She will not take a job where she is paid on the books ('on the white', she calls it) because she would have to pay tax and the debt collectors could garnish her wages. So she goes on merrily through life dodging the credit card company calls and enjoying the moment. Life is good.
    But at some point in the future she will want to borrow money again. Maybe she will marry, have children and want money for a home. And then the debt she does not want to repay will come back to haunt her. She will not be able to borrow any more money.
    Argentina borrowed money - no matter what it was for - and has an obligation to repay it. It is spending money providing a welfare state and improving the lives of many. That has to be paid for and when Argentina runs out of money it will need to borrow again and unpaid debts will come back to haunt the government.

    You know the spend today and worry about repaying later was exactly the thinking that caused the financial collapse ten short years ago.

    I still love the country and my friends there. : )

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    what kind of friends do you have E?

    Translate this : “ Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres” :-))

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @10 LOL! I have disparate friends, so maybe that tells you I have an open mind. : )
    I don't have any debts at all so cannot perceive of living her way. But then she teases me constantly about my peccadilloes. Like always arriving exactly on time which she thinks is hilarious. To her 9.00 pm could mean any time from around 10.00 - 12.00 pm. *shrugs*.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    #8 you are deluded if you think China is going to take Arg peso bonds. Absolutely no one wants them they are only forced on public institutions at taxpayer expense. The public institutions should be getting “market” rates which would be a much much higher rate than the gov't is paying (which is I think 8%) and inflation running at 25%! So they are losing money both in relative interest and the peso is also depreciating. It is a lose lose proposition for investors and the public.

    You obviously know nothing about economics. Actually your posts are so completely worthless I think you may be retarded.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    don't be so harsh .... he is OK

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 12 yankeeboy

    it is very disgraceful that you use of heavy borrowed country's symbol
    name ...anyway ...this is your problem !!
    NOW
    you say “” .. the public inst. should be getting market rates which would be a much higher rate than the govt is paying....“”
    as we see you are mixing together the terms /times..becouse
    market rates are determined and applied in short terms but govt payings
    shows the mid/longer terms according to the market volatilities...

    in Bond markets , the basic/main indicator is “” spreads “”and “”yields“”
    not their interest rates first...the maximum scale point is “” 8 “”.
    nowadays Argentine 10 years Bonds Spreads are ~ 4.670 ..
    not bad ...tolerable... ( Mexico 10 years bond spreads are 52 points which
    does not mean that more safer/reliable than Argentine bonds...)

    who says Argentine Economy has CPI/annualy is 25 % ........
    Clarinette Newspaper says !!...real rate is between 9,5%...11,2 %...
    of course INDEC's numbers are faulty either...
    in practice ,technically,there is no any relation between CPI-Bond yields.

    Peso is not depreciating merely undulates at narrow margins,
    this is very normal ..no problem...!!

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    ** 9

    our precious friend Elaine's comment is highly literary...
    BUT
    i think when the word “” Argentina “” changed with “” USA“
    ”“UK”“ ...”“ Australia ””..........would be more true ....
    becouse the credit cards usage is very low in Argentina.
    number of cards per inhabitant..UK : 2.64 .....USA : 2.79
    Argentina : 0.51 ......Brasil : 1.53......Australia : 2.90

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    My anecdote was by way of an example but it is true it would be easy to amass debt in any country.

    As I have said before, it is not the amount of debt but the ability (and will) to repay it that will dictate the trust of the lenders.

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    #14 - Cost of living 9.5-11.2%?? How about the cost of a security firm (same firm, same property) Sept 30, 2008 13,045 pesos; Sept 30, 2011 27,922 pesos. What percentage is that?

    #16 - According to what I have read, that is one of the major reasons for the economic disaster in the USA.

    #16 -

    Oct 10th, 2011 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @17 Debt? Or the inability to repay?

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @17

    I would call it GREED ....

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    ** 17 jerry

    security firms !!??

    i don't guess you need a security firm in Argentina..maybe in US ..!!

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Artillero601

    @20 Yes , you do and is a HUGE business

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    One of the first differences I noticed when staying in Argentina was the high security on private dwellings. And not just in BsAs. In Mendoza you would think it was a city under siege with the high spiked fences, alarms, security guards and wolf-like dogs.

    And the number of businesses that have armed security and keep their doors locked during trading hours. Even innocuous places like hairdressers have to buzz you through the door.

    I have never witnessed that in the UK or the US. Maybe very expensive jewellers but I do not frequent that kind of establishment.

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mjprando

    @ 9

    wow Elaine, you should learn to choose your friends better. That one is a useless slob, no matter where she is from.

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @23 : ) She is one of many friends, all very different. Actually, if you disregard her irresponsible attitude to money, she has the biggest heart. : ) I like her a lot, I just couldn't live her way.

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rosarino

    Ealine, that kind of people live in any part of the planet- for example, in Argentina has not a big market of mortgages; and we save money; and the economy is growing; and consumers pay their debts. And passive class has more money than ever; and unemployment is 7.5% .....

    Yankeeboy, please tell wich possibility whe have to pay 9000 milliones whit our ratio PBI vs Debts-
    And tell me how USA wanna pay whit thei ratio ;) PBIvs.Debts-
    Maybe some chinese want to say something about it don´t you think?
    And if you americans can livewhit 20% inflation/year I give a NObel ;)
    You will never understand why whe live in that way, but we prefer this to live in the FMI way !!

    Regards !

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • O gara

    Ahh elaine did you read that in a book you bought on Corrientes or could you not get it.I guess you never lived in the East end of london my dear.Then again i didnt see many readers in that part of the city.maybe CFK sabotaged the distribution.
    Now my dear If you post on here lady or no lady(doubtful premise)you have to accept comment on your boludeces.My dear to put in nicely you are a complete a..h..e boluda pelotuda whatever.Your posts are completely idiotic

    Oct 11th, 2011 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @25 I think you will read that I said that acquiring debt is a universal problem. The point was to illustrate an attitude that you raised. You said that Argentina was not in a hurry to pay back the Paris Club. I was using an anecdote to show that a debt is a debt, and has to be repaid if one wants to be in a position to borrow money in the future and have a good credit rating. That's all.

    Oct 12th, 2011 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    Elaine , you present a truth about debt that is so obvious that it is probably its very obviousness that may be giving O'G problems.

    He is probably thinking,
    '' The problem of debt can't be that simple, there must be more to a solution than simply paying it back on time.
    Elaine must have a hidden and more machaeavelian agenda”.

    Oct 12th, 2011 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    debt is debt..

    UK household total debts 2010/Dec....
    ------------------------------------------------
    Consumer Credits .... 213.693 millions £

    Dwellings Debts .... 1.238.020 millions £
    -----------------------------------------------
    Total Debt .... 1.451.713 millions £

    Oct 12th, 2011 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Once again..... it is not the amount of debt but the ability and willingness to repay it. Is that hard to understand?

    Oct 12th, 2011 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo

    BUT

    UK house price - to -income ratio ...

    in October 2000 .... 3.2 ..../.... in June 2011 .... 4.5

    source : Halifax

    Oct 12th, 2011 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • geo2

    .

    Oct 14th, 2011 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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