MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Timerman and Randazzo lash back at Cameron over Falklands’ dispute
Argentine Foreign Minister Héctor Timerman echoed the statements made by UK’s Prime Minister David Cameron in which he accused Argentina of “colonialism,” and counter attacked by saying that “it catches one’s attention to hear such statements when Great Britain and Colonialism are synonymous.” Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesyour new flag,
Jan 18th, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a big white square with a duber.u[W] on top
with ankers
below,
cut the crap,
times running out,
ARE YOU MEN OR CHILDREN
pick up the gauntlett
or shut up,
Timmerman is such a fine indigenous south american name, not.
Jan 18th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The ruling classes of Argentina are descended from colonists primarily from Spain. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Gracias Timer!!!! the poor people of Falkland (without any country for growing up) that they need to stolen land of the another country because it is the unique fact of the UK´s history as a Principal Colonialist all around the world. Robbers, come on, go to St Helens Island! for uk pirate history.
Jan 18th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is the product of Spanish colonialism. Fact.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Amazing how Herr Von Timmerman is happy to dish out the crap but can't take it. Typical playground bully.
“This is absolutely offensive, particularly coming from Great Britain. History clearly shows what their attitude towards the world was,”
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Randazo knows pretty well whats he´s talking about....
http://www.britishreparations.org/commercial.php
Of course old Randy knows what he is talking about. All very well comimg from a country that sat out WW2 then welcomed the Nazis at the end of the war.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Timerman remarked that “we live in a world where only colonialism leftovers can be found, but it seems that as far as the British Empire is in full decline, they have now decided to re-write history.”
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0re-write history = Roger Lorton
re-write history = David Barrow
re-write history = Graham Pascoe and Peter Pepper
re-write history = FIG and Falkland Isladers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/7331547/Official-British-history-of-the-Falklands-War-is-considered-too-pro-Argentina.html
Not going to work.....NEVER
DC has certainly hit the spot today. Doesn't look like the Argentine colonalists can take it. Just a few words at question time and they start to shit themselves.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whoops, oh dear oh dear there seems to be a few hissy fits and teddy throwing from across the water :-)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I keep reading posts about stolen land.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't the decendants of the previous title holders make their claim and/or apply for residence. I know it wouldn't be approved but it would be nice to see if there is REALLY anyone with a real history from there has any desire to move back perminantly.
I'm sick of reading about “Argentina's” claim, that's just politics. I want to know about real people.
SoFa - as far as history is concerned, it is hardly our fault if Argentina couldn't get it right in the first place.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0But history is there to be seen - all of it, not just Argentina's version.
History also is clear in that Argentina is not the product of Spanish colonialism, the modern country from 1860 and beyond has virtually no resemblance with the one Spain surrendered in 1813.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Viva Las Falklands comments are typical brain freeze. Argentina sat out of WWII because it wasn't its war. Why would we care a darn about Europe, the USA or Japan? Your guys fault, that war. Finally, for every “nazi” refugee there were 1000 Jews that found safety in Argentina. In fact the man Viva las Falklands mocks as “Von Timmerman” is most likely a JEW!
Argentina's ruling class, unlike virtually the rest of the Western Hemisphere, at least resembles a great portion if not a majority of the population.
Argentina sat out the war because it didn't want to do anything difficult, but hoped like crazy that the germans would win because it wanted to lay claim to the Falkland Islands after the manufactured history lie was put together in the 1930s.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Things didn't quite go to plan, so they opted to declare war on germany when the fight was all but over (no chance they would need to do anything difficult then), and they only did that to get a chance to sit at the top table and decide on how the World should be run by the UN.
Basically a bunch of johnny come lately's hoping to steal a few crumbs from the big boys, and they've been like that ever since, a bunch of wasters.
Wireless,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are going to brand about names, then answer... Why would Argentina have cared an iota about WWII or what happened in Europe?
It's funny how you blast her neutrality, but had she participated most likely you would be saying something like “their contribution is insignificant”. ;)
As for the special treatement Argentina got by being allowed to found the UN in spite of not being part of the war effort (supposedly the only country exempted), well, let's get real: Argentina has no power in the UN, and never has. Whether it was there or not at the table is irrelevant.
@14 Tobias the world is changing.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0The power in the UN is in the Union. There are more countries that back Argentina that those which back UK, if there is one. They made many enemies during its history
The UN is a powerless body. Not only because it is in fact outdated in which countries hold “power”, but because sadly many countries do not share the values of democracy, freedom of expression, and peace, thus most votes are always either rejected or vetoed. Argentina is delusional if it thinks the UN will ever really have teeth to settle the issue of the Falklands.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0To be fair, Argentina DID decare war on Nazi Germany !
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1945 :-)
@ Tobias if you want to trade insults “You are a deluded fool”. Of course Argentina is a product of colonialism. It was not the indigenous people of South America that rose up against their colonial masters but the colonists themselves. Whilst Argentina may well be a democracy now it was born of colonialism. This is a fact that you cannot get away from.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you deny this you deny the very essence of your claim to the Falkland Islands.
wow...argentina is not even being subtle about it. they are literally screaming “WE ARE VICTIMS!!!! PITY US!!” to the world in order to get support, and it is failing just as much as every other effort given the total lack of meaningful help this has gotten
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0also did cfk not make a gigantic deal about Ban Ki Moon visiting last year and how this would somehow be a great victory for argentina in taking the falklands.... only for the result of her said discussion to be completely hushed up, and Ban Ki Moon to continue stating the paramount importance of self determination?
and as for stating basic truths being “absolutely offensive”, when a nation which still celebrates every brutal act of genocide and extermination waged against innocents as being glorious and heroic acts, which are celebrated even on the money, and which continues to disenfranchise the few remaining natives out of their land, rights and resources, decides to shriek that any comment about their colonial past as such a horrific and evil insult, you get a sense of how deeply in denial and delusion argentina is hiding.
argentina, from the entire of the civilized world, i beg you, for your own sake, to grow a goddamned spine and a functional pair of testicles.
Camerons little speech has gone down a bomd with tory right as seen by the rants of the rabble on here.However all over the Americas his words have been a godsend to Argentina.Keep it up Davidito you are doing a great job in making the Malvinas a Latin American cause celebre.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0So Randazzo finds the words offensive.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, Tough luck hombre.
l find sr Randazzo offensive.
l find all malvinistas, offensive.
The pace is heating up, nicely.
ln the peace settlements this time, l DEMAND a piece of southern Argentina.
lts my “claim”, which has as much right as their ridiculous “claims”.
Isolde your demands are as relevant as the man in the moon.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its tough times for the city,Isolated in the EU,considered an irrelevance by the Obama government and China and now humilliated by the foreign minister of the country who has just surpassed it as the sixth biggest economy.
Cameron and Hague are flailing around trying to protect its influence but theres only one path in this future and we all know the realities ahead.
As I have been saying to the Malvinenses Aprenda Español every Brasilian child is.
Majority support from both sides of the House of Commons for DC's statement yesterday.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0@12 So why do you think your modern country founded in 1860 had rights over the British that settled the Falklands decades earlier?
@22 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2087168/Osborne-wins-China-billions-City-Landmark-deal-eases-gloom-UK-growth.html it think china like us ;)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 024 I have been trying to educate for a long time now.All that matters to the London elite is exactly that THE CITY.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Meanwhile in the real economy unemployment reaches 2,7 MILLION increasing by over 100,000 a month.
As time goes by with Davidito in power the difference will accentuate and the income distribution within the country will lead to serious challenges very serious challenges
The Truth must hurt Timerman......aha
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0looks like some argies think unemployment at 7.8 % and inflation at 22% is a win win situation.... and we though we had it bad.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 027 Nightengale you conveniently forget in Argentina unemployment is falling while in England its rising at over 100,000 a month!
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0You ALSO forgot to mention the growth at 9,2% while you enter recession AGAIN
Nobody said high inflation is a win win scenario
9.2 % of a small amount is still a small amount...but as you like quoting stats , i'll let you have it ;)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0History clearly shows what their attitude towards the world was,” he said in a press conference.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Was” he said, not “is”. Many a slip tween cup and lip.
Agentina is too parochial to join her look-ahead neighbours; dragging anchor to Brazil, Chile, and Uruguay.
Shall we look at the facts. The Falkland Islands, has its own democracy and government. It is financially self-sufficient and only requires military defence from another country because there is a very recent history of being invaded by a neighbouring country. The people of the Falkland Islands want to keep this current arrangement. They are of British descent, speak English and culturally are very close to Britain, but with their own twist.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina wants the Falklands. The Falkland Islanders don’t want to be Argentine. If Argentina takes control over the Falklands, the Falklands people will be subject to a foreign government that will enforce its own laws, cultural, social, economic and political views upon a population that does not want this. To me that says colonialism.
Same reply I made in another article to 7 Islas Malvinas - how strange that you define us as an imported species while most deffinatly Argentine people were also imported and much worse than that killed the indigenous people of that land. Something we Falkland Islanders never done.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0How much better this world would be if the persistant war mongering people who unfortunatly share our wonderful planet would be if they could all be shipped out to some far distant galaxy. No maybe I should not even contemplate that either because that would mean playing a part in destroying some other civilisation.
The point I am making here is that is it so nescessary to want what someone else has got when one cannot properly use what they already own.
The Falklands are unique in that our importance to the world is that we are the gateway to that yet commercially unexplored continant Antartica which we also know is a place that Argentina one day also wants to lay claim to but is unable to because they as yet do not control the Falklands.
War does not solve problems but causes people even more misary on both sides.
All you Argentine troubloe makers would do very well to have a look at the recent story of an Argentina and a British Sailer finding frienship after one thought he had killed the other. That in the world is reconcilliation.
Meanwhile we are still British and PROUD
All the people know that UK is a country, who stole a lot of territories around the word, the Malvinas Islands are only a little example of it. Perhaps, this country didn´t want to realize that the colonialism has finished long time ago, giving back these territories is opposite of its political and economical interests, however all around the world know that the Islands was stolen and they are Argentinian.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0@33
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And now argentina wants to steal the Falklands and think that continous verbal attacks will achieve this OH HOW WRONG You are!!!! The UK and the Falklands can just sit back and watch as argentina runs in circles chasing this fantasy of malvenus!
We are NOT under any pressure to talk as there is nothing to discuss!!!!!!!!!!!
Long Live the Falklands.
Rewriting history?
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't make me laugh, its endemic in Argentina.
Argentina rewrites history to claim an expulsion that never happened, it rewrites history a century after the event to claim a treaty it was not a party too gives rights over the Falklands and ignores the fact that in 1850 it signed a treaty with the UK recognising the end of its sovereignty claim.
It whines about colonialism and European Empires, conveniently ignoring it is a product of the Spanish Empire and in the 19th Century took Tierra del Fuego from Chile, several provinces from Paraguay, chunks of Uruguay and conquered most of Patagonia in its genocidal Conquest of the Desert. You live in a country stolen from its indigenous people and to whine about the Falklands is blatant hypocrisy.
Even now they're rewriting history that the Junta did not have the support of large sections of the Argentine population, reduce the numbers of people “disappeared” and the Falklands War was a glorious victory aside from the surrender.
Colonialism is the imposition of an alien culture and non-representative Government upon a people and thats exactly what you plan to do to the Falklanders.
Two faced hypocritical bigots. If they found Cameron's comments offensive, tough titty.
@35
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well put!
Long Live the Falklands.
@35
Jan 19th, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0goddamnit do you KNOW how irritating it is when someone takes the words right out of your mouth?
in all seriousness though good post, just a pity argentines will respond with the same self righteous, self pitying, self glorifying diatribes of bullshit, propaganda, wishful thinking and delusional rewriting of history.
lets just hope it does not lead them to start another war they cannot win.
31/32 A very convenient argument.But the reality is you are the descendants of planters put in by the colonial, power to COLONIZE the islands.So you are the colonizers whether you like the term or not.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously you didnt have a choice in this little arrangement so you personally arent guilty of the crime.
So a compromise has to be reached.The reality is the entire continent to which you belong recognize Argentina as the legitimate owner of the islands while the de facto situation is different.
The future is hard to predict but it appears that South America is growing quickly and getting ever more powerful while Europe is at best stagnant.
This suggests that in reality your situation will if no negotiations take place get ever more fragile and tense.
Now you guys can bury your head in the sands and tell the world all the ills of Argentina but it is a huge country with huge resources whose even bigger and more powerful neighbour have decided that ever more closer relations will be the norm.It would appear to me your best policy is to engage with Argentina.
5 so_far:
Jan 19th, 2012 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every time you post that website, it does nothing but make you look stupid. None of it is correct.
you start ok, then fall into a big black hole,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are not just big, but the 8th largest, so why bother with some rocks,
as for the politics, as i said before, as long as they talk, peace is delayed,
its how you interprit it, we know what they are doing, you do not,
cobra is not a toy,, davidhas effectivly laid down the gauntlett,
it is not up to argentina to pick it up, or lose face, the arguments are irrelevent, mud slinging is off the menue,
but as long as argentina is happy in the playground, the world will ignore you, as long as argentina is ammused with the toys, she is no danger to anyone .
no one is burying their heads in the sand, but the cammel,
simple, we are ready awaiting your reply, for we have bigger fish, to fry,, we must all back up our words at some stage,
the time has come for argentina to stand up, and be counted,
cut the crap, and the insults, you are fooling no one, , for the world has witnessed a list of big mouth dictators, who on TV have slagged us off,-
and where are they now,, and now its your turn, back it up, or CFK will face humiliation at home and abroard, and everybody on this blogg knows it, times up, the next move is argentina;s,
and we bet, the world will hear nothing but mouth and insults, but no desire to back it up, CFK is finnished, unless she backs this up,
britain only wanted peace, just peace, but you would not leave it alone, you keep pushing and pushing, have we not said on here, to stop pushing, but argentina justs laughs, well no ones laughing now,
back it up, or face humiliation,
your move, your move,,,your move ,
O'Gaga
Jan 19th, 2012 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain was a colonising power that put spaniards in what is now called Argentina. A fact - whether you like it or not.
No compromise is necessary, the status quo is not ideal, but then not much of a problem either. No-one cares what South America thinks!
The future is that the Islanders will continue to exercise their right to self determination. It's a good future.
The Islanders will get stronger, particularly if the oil find is developed.
Argentina is a big country with big debts, it appears to me that the Islanders' best course of action is to avoid you like the plague !
@41 Red,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just read an article where it states the PM Cameron will increase the number of troops in the Islands .... for what exactly? Gain public support?, divert opinion on an existing financial crisis? play “macho” in front of the ladies? :-)
Because when there is a problem, is always “convenient” to find an escape goat, right? For example, in the recent fires in Arizona, Sen McCain , blamed illegal immigration as the cause of the incidents ... Although a hero in my book but what a “ moronic statement” !! Your comments please.
Timmerman is a clown, I can't believe he still has a job after all of his mis-steps over the years. I wonder what he has on CFK?
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas is NOT a SELF GOVERNING territory.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.un.org/en/decolonization/nonselfgovterritories.shtml
It´s a COLONY.
I see Rockhopper shares are substantially up again.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Must be the increased security or something.
41 Argentina is a big country you are right but where you are wrong its debt is very small.Its around 40% of gdp check it out its fact
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23
Jan 19th, 2012 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't Elaine. I hope that answers your question (of course, it is my individual view and can't do much too change it, though I try convincing people the Falkland's issue is a waste of time).
@32
The Falklands are inconsquencial to any future potential moves in Antarctica. Tierra del Fuego will always be the logistical natural point.
When even the official British history of the Falklands is sympathetic to Argentina's claim then you know that the “writing is on the wall”.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It also interesting to note the various comments withtin the British Press concerning this official history, which are almsot entirely uncritical and in several instances, supportive.
@12 If Argentina is not the product of Spanish (and Italian) colonialism, why is 86.4% of the population classified as European? Why is its official language European? Why is it “administered” in a European (i.e. Spanish) fashion? Britain even had to build your railways for you! And, incidentally, the Jewish population in Argentina is between 180,000 and 300,000. So, only 180 to 300 nazis then? Except research says it was more like 10,000. Or are you going to try telling us that Argentina took in 10 million Jews? Did you know that Peron made it much harder for Jews to get in from 1938 onwards? And that many Jews were targeted during your Dirty War?
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33 At what stage are you going to try to improve yourself and attempt to reach the heady heights of being a dimwit? At the moment, you only seem to be able to achieve “moron” with occasional flashes of “imbecile”.
@38 Do please explain to us how your “country” came into being. Could you explain why your “city” of Buenos Aires (Ciudad de Nuestra Señora Santa María del Buen Ayre) was attacked so many times by the indigenous people? Remember how you had to abandon it in 1541 because you were so popular? Would it have had anything to do with the “peninsulars”? Followed by the “criollos”? Why did the indigenous people stay away from the cities so that you had to import African slaves? How did “mestizos” come about?
See, 86.4% of you are European colonists. But with slight differences from the people of the Falkland Islands. You invaded and then killed the native people to the extent of genocide. The ancestors of the Islanders did neither. The only people there when the Islanders' ancestors arrived were French. Until the Spanish bought the French settlement. Get that? They bought it. Nothing fine and noble. But then there's rarely anything fine and noble about the Spanish. Or the Italians. Remember that saying about Italian tanks in WW2? Five gears. And four of them were reverse!
You're COLONISTS, you dummy!
Conqueror,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not going to get lectured on racism against Jews from a British or virtually anyone else. Most other countries flat out rejected all Jewish immigrants (Saint Louis anyone?), and ALL nations in Europe including the England/UK have a lugubrious history of anti-semitism throughout the centuries. This is not directed at you per say, but in general: cut the ----. None of you can lecture Argentina on anti-semitism.
As for “colonialism”, the reason I have avoided explaining it is because it is useless I see. Only in this forum, would people equate colonialism with IMMIGRATION. In a very vague set of definitions:
Colonialism = an official policy of re-creating the homeland in another land or territory, down to the culture, religion, form of government, language, etc, usually with OFFICIAL government support or tacit approval.
Immigration = the WILLING movement of individuals from one place to another, always out of personal volition, for a variety of reasons but mainly economic, religious, political, or for personal safety. Immigrants do not try to recreate their homeland conditions as a concerted collective effort but rather may assimilate to the area they settle. However, large-scale immigration may lead at times to a re-creation of the homeland due to critical mass.
In other words, colonies are a collective, usually governmental, enterprises. Immigration is a set of INDIVIDUAL decisions.
I doubt anyone here will actually be intellectually honest enough to admit these definitions make sense, and thus Argentina is not 100% the product of Spain's efforts. Everyone with a slight ounce of history osmosis knows 90% of Argentina today is not like the colony relinquished by Spain (especially since for Spain, it was basically an irrelevant region, Peru, Colombia, Mexico, Cuba were the real centers).
@47. Noted. I don't think you are a lone voice. Of all the people I have met in Argentina, the Falklands is way down their list of priorities. Inflation, rising crime, endless strikes and protests annoy the bejeezus out of most people trying to get on with life. But the fact that most want to just enjoy their life is the most attractive trait of the Argentines.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is truly amazing that the Argentines believe that we were implanted and colonising our home land. Yest not once to they acknoweledge that there very existance is based on colonisation and Murder . These same people even sugest we should accept that our Country belongs to them so my sugestion to all of them given the fact we have been a part of the British empire since 1592 that we as Bona Fida Falkland Islanders must therefore have the same equal right to claim Argentina. after all it was once a colony of Spain and in my books to colonise means to populate by implantation. When the Argentines are ready to get out of Argentina and return the Country to the rightfull indigenous people then maybe we can intergrate with those rightfull people who actually own Argentina. Not many Argentines will agree with this but yet those same people expect us to do the exact same for them.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem as I have stated is that THIS forum attracts hard-liners from both sides by its nature, and the extreme views expressed here (not about the Falklands ownership actually, but mainly about the “people of the other side” of the debate), get reinforced by the grotesque caricatured descriptions writen by absolutely biased contributors. Anyone with a bit of objectivism would realize that due to the heated nature of things here, the descriptions of Brits and Argentines one reads here may perhaps be slightly “crayoned”, to put it midly.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at Conqueror's closing comments @49. He blanket states that the Spanish or Italians have no redeeming qualities. How does one interpret such comments? I dismiss them of course as sour grapes, but even assuming he has a point regarding the genocides in Argentine territory for land... Is he that foolish to believe anyone buys his story that the English did nothing of the sort?
She should check a continent called “North America”, and then get back to me. :)
I just read an article where it states the PM Cameron will increase the number of troops in the Islands .... for what exactly? Gain public support?, divert opinion on an existing financial crisis? play “macho” in front of the ladies? :-)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HISTORY
Giving out the right signals,dont want the Argies getting the wrong idea like in 82, worked in 74 when Callaghan sent a sub down south to focus the argies minds
53
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You talk reasonably about biased contributers and hardline views which is all fair enough. Unfortunately you then single out one contributer who happens to support the Islanders rights to self determinations. Does this perhaps indicate your own biased attitude. Have a closer look at some of the blatantly racist and facist views expressed by some the Agentinians on here. Advocate reasonableness and balance by all means but try and express it yourself. War is inevitable and as it approaches ever closer I fear your sensibilities will become even more outraged.
When a prime Minister has to resort to such slander it merely expresses Britain's desperation but it hardly matters as the movement to restore the Islands to South America is gathering momentum now. The air-link to Chile will end in March and all sea-ports on both sides of the South American continent will be closed by October - to any shipping on -route or from, the Malvinas and this includes any vessel connected to the oil drilling project.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 053 Tobias you have to pity Conqueror hes in pain the poor man.He suffers terribly it puts him in a dark mood which rarely leaves.Actually for a moment he seemed reasonable today but it obviously returned.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Jewish population of Gran Buenos Aires alone is 250,000 and its a thriving growing community.The Jewish community in Buenos Aires is highly respected and plays an extremely important part in the cultural,economic and indeed every facet of Porteño life.
In fact the integration of Spanish,Italian,French,Russian,Arab,Jewish,Korean,Japanese,Irish, Poles,Irish,Paraguayan,Bolivian populations is part of the success sory of Argentina.
The islanders do make a good point about Argentina being largely descended from two of the greatest cultural nations in the World.If old Conqueror in a lucid moment would only realise it the Romans CONQUERED all of England so he probably has some Italian blood.
However here is the difference the Argentine Criollos expelled the colonial power to develop an independent nation.
42 Artillero 601: Could you provide a link? There are no plans to increase troops currently on the islands.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. There is no threat.
2. The troops are needed elsewhere.
@54
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I got the signal Stick but Can you fight “rhetoric” with a sub? :-)
@58
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://america.infobae.com/notas/42380-Cameron-enviara-mas-militares-a-las-Islas-Malvinas
Z, is in Spanish but according to the article , comes from The Times?
@ 58 zethe
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British army is now the smallest it has been since the age of Queen Victoria and their government wants even more cuts.
If the Prime Minister had the military resources available he would have already expressed it via a 'show of force' in the Malvinas but he doesn't and as a consequence he knows the islands are in a very dangerous predicament.
61 lets be honest here despite recent reinvestment in Argentinas armed forces and the rapid development of FADEA and CINAR Argentina is in no position to go to war with anyone.Nor has CFK the slightest intention of that.What argentina is doing is attacking at every international forum and clearly Davidito is rattled
Jan 19th, 2012 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Tobias
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ah yes so intentionally picking out blatantly obvious trolls as being representative of the entirety of your opposition is just SO much better isnt it?
and given the entirety of the arguments from argentina's elected government are spewing as you say “grotesque caricatured descriptions”, to say nothing of what just about every single argentine poster here says, the question is why a so called “neutral” observer like you decides to focus entirely on attacking the British side
your problem is the same as all other moderates in issues like this. you desperately cling to the idea of compromise, even when one side wants to pointlessly cause suffering to innocent people for no legal nor moral reason and by all legal and moral definitions is utterly in the wrong. thus making any compromise to appease this side morally and legally wrong also
yet when those on the side of the aforementioned innocents get aggressive or even snarky, you concentrate on attacking them while utterly ignoring those from the side trying to justify defining and treating innocents as subhuman
63 Well Braedon I have to say you are very concise and clear.Ill bet everybody understood that to perfection and we will resonate all night on your wisdom.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 63 Braedon
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When there is an exchange of sovereignty the islanders will hardly notice it.
Argentina's legal system is pretty much the same as in britain so the islanders will certainly lose none of their democratic rights or even their british citizenship. They will retain their autonomy through their executive and legislative councils and control over the their economy and there certainly will not be any real presence of argentine military on the islands as it is unnecessary.
The most noticeable changes will be within any oil exploitation as Argentina will institute a system similar to what britain did with their North Sea oil reserves and such a system will at least guarantee that more of the income will go into infrastructure and jobs rather than directly into the pockets of investors.
Foreign Secretary confirms Royal visit to Brazil
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am now pleased to announce that His Royal Highness Prince Harry will also soon be here, and will attend the GREAT campaign launch event in March
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/news/latest-news/?view=News&id=718425482
34 dreyfoss
32 Malvinero1
YOUWERE SAYING
You have not a clue have you,
Whilst your playing kiss-chase in the playground,
Brazil is showing how to advance,
.
O gara...you mentioned that it is the Islanders that tell lies and bury their heads in the sand....self-determintaion is a right of everyone, including the Falkland Islanders. No exceptions. The UN has never made an exception. It is Argentina who buries its head in the sand. And if the people of the Falklands are not allowed to exercise their right to self-determination that is colonialism. And Argentina is doing everything it can to ensure the people of the Falklands do not exercise this right.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I got the signal Stick but Can you fight “rhetoric” with a sub? :-)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who prior to the 82 invasion would of thought the Argies would of gone to war with the UK, as long as they know where the UK stands people fom both sides need not get killed, why does Argentina have a army? they dont expect a war
“Who prior to the 82 invasion would of thought the Argies would of gone to war”
Jan 19th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have a theory about that ... but is not for an open forum like this one ;-)
unless they would like one,,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but alas blame it on the brits,
@Dreyfoss
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there will never be any exchange of sovereignty, nor even negotiations, as argentina lacks any
a)military power
b)economic power
c)diplomatic power
d)moral right
e)legal right
f)historical right
g) (the most important one) support of the islanders
each of these cards is possessed by Britain, and shall be for the future due to argentine cowardice, idiocy and open malevolence towards the islanders.
no one has any wish to be part of a corrupt, decaying, and irrelevant third world nation, least of all people who have been on the receiving end of 50 years of threats, blackmail, attacks, blockades and insults from said third world nation. the fact argentina pretends (with little success) to be a stable democracy is irrelevant when it is as unstable, corrupt and poverty stricken as it is.
why should the islanders wish to cut ties with britain to be part of such a nation?
especially when argentina, for reasons both blatantly fraudulent and sickeningly hypocritical, demands the islanders be disenfranchised their basic human rights of self determination, property, sovereignty and rights over the land they have lived in peace for generations. they want no part of your poor excuse of a democracy, they have a fully functioning and infinitely more effective and fair one as it is, and one which does not possess any wish to subjugate, steal from, and ethnically cleanse them as argentina wishes.
@65 dental floss
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“When there is an exchange of sovereignty the islanders will hardly notice it.”
There will NEVER be a change of sovereignty (except perhaps one day from the UK to the Islanders themselves), so that is a pointless remark
“Argentina's legal system is pretty much the same as in britain so the islanders will certainly lose none of their democratic rights....”
I wouldn't trust Argentina to adhere to their legal system, so that's another pointless remark. Purely by being forced to accept a switch of sovereignty to Argentina, the Islanders would instantly have lost their democratic rights, because their democratically expressed wish is to remain associated with the UK.
“.... there certainly will not be any real presence of argentine military on the islands as it is unnecessary.”
There almost certainly will. I would envisage there being more Argentine forces there than the current UK contingent. The military will probably use Mount Pleasant and Mare Harbour as a base to expand their influence further into the South Atlantic and the Antarctic.
“ The most noticeable changes will be within any oil exploitation...will at least guarantee that more of the income will go into infrastructure and jobs rather than directly into the pockets of investors.”
The most noticeable difference will be in the rapidly expanding bank balances of CFK and her cronies, because that is where much of the oil revenue will probably end up. The Islanders probably won't see a penny of it (in stark contrast to their current situation). The Islanders don't need any more jobs, as unemployment is virtually non-existent there. The military will probably also receive a sizeable slice to help further Argentina's expansionist policies in the South Atlantic and the Antarctic.
Englander @55,
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I singled out Conqueror's comments about the Italians and the Spanish, because they seemed to blind and blanket. He also started lecturing me on anti-semitism, and that coming from a European is quite a tad rich.
There will be no war. Argentina has no military to fight it with (since CFK and company dispise the military and have demolished it, their bit of vengeance from the 1970s). And the UK isn't going to start one of course.
To the others that mentioned the insults from the Argentine posters, I have read them, not in this particular topic, but I have. I have mentioned several times to them it is wrong. You guys only remember when I direct the criticism towards the British extreme posters, because you are more naturally inclined to react to them. I have constantly said “BOTH” sides are at fault. This is exactly like the Israeli-Palestinian issue, both sides are poor ol victims, pity us, pity us.
I don't pity neither the Brits nor the argentines. My government is a joke when it comes to foreign policy and deserves little respect, I have said that several times before.
@53 tobias
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened in North America is not really relevent to what happened in the S Atlantic, or what is happening there now.
In history no one is innocent or they would not be here today.
What ever the British may or may not be guilty of elsewhere does not mean they are automaticly guilt of the same in the S Atlantic. And therefore Argentina is in the right.
This seems to be the argument from many argentinians here.
If the British do decide they've had enough & renounce all claim on the island then what? I assume the inhabitants don't want to be part of Argentina & would vote for independence. Will Argentina invade & have a vote that includes 3000 islanders and 10,000 soldiers? Will they instead seize land to build a new city then have a vote after the “civilian” population is over 6000? Will they will “re-educate” the locals on the mainland before allowing a vote. Maybe they can jail them for failure to pay income taxes these last 150 years. I love “managed” democracy!
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 067 Explain self determination in Ireland since Brittania is such a paragon of virtue.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Pugol-H
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. The problem is that some Brits make this issue a UK-Argentina cultural matter, and don't keep it a Falkland Islands-Argentina political matter. Do the latter, and I'm fine with your reasoning. I'm no fool, I read the way the comments of a few are redacted, and it is clear there is an ethnic component imbuing them (“anglo-saxon” vs not).
Such a tiny place but such a big issue. We have what the Argentines want that is the gateway to the Antartic . Sorry but the gate stays shut because Falkland Islanders keep it shut right.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Kelper and their Dreams
Ushuaia is almost 3/4 of links (commercial, tourist, military, etc) to Antartica.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess the gate wasn't shut enough. :)
@77 tobias
Jan 19th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I also agree (serious outbreak of agreement). However I also feel with some south americans this is very much a “Gringo thing”
My concern is the demonisation I hear from the Argentinian Gov, this leads people (the man on the street) to think its OK.
@76 O gara
A majority of the population in the north wish to remain British, sound familiar.
@77
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. But the people CFK and co. can ever convince are not worth convincing in the first place, they are beyond rehabilitation if they can be lead so easily. Anyone with access to the internet in Argentina (75%), more than any other place south of the USA), and can interact with other cultures won't fall so easily. The days when whole nations could be blindly lead to the sea-side cliff are over.
76 in 1919 the parliament elected in Dublin voted by a huge margin for independence for the entire island of Ireland but Irish self determination was denied by force by her majestys government.This shows the absolute hypocricy of the City position now and at all times.The entire thing is about POWER.THANKFULLY the power situation is irretrievably moving in Argentinas direction
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They don´t give a dime for the self determination. Just an excuse.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@81 tobias
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think this is what we saw with the Arab spring.
@82 O gara
In 1908 the British Gov stated position was Ireland, all Ireland, should be independant. Problem was getting agreement in Ireland (all Ireland).
What the british denied was the south imposing its rule on the North.
Alternativly you could look at Cyprus or Siri Lanka to see what happens
with out partition.
CycloneSteve: Marcelo Luis Vernet, descendant of the first governor of Malvinas. And there are many others which are not direct descendants, but they wanna live in Malvinas.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands are a self Governing Territory and are well placed to decide there Own Future, which does Not include being turned into an argentine theme park!!
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0179 Years of Peace and counting!!
Long Live the Falklands.
Such a tiny place but such a big issue. We have what the Argentines want that is the gateway to the Antartic . Sorry but the gate stays shut because Falkland Islanders keep it shut right.
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Kelper and their Dreams
Kelper,you are sooo stupid.Tobias is wrigth!! Malvinas is an help for uk.But the shaft is in Tierra del fuego...You are out of the pictue..and uk is FINISHED!! I do not care about uk!!Is going down fast!!
Kelper,you are sooo stupid.Tobias is wrigth
Jan 19th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
@85 Eloy “Marcelo Luis Vernet, descendant of the first governor of Malvinas. And there are many others which are not direct descendants, but they wanna live in Malvinas.”
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is nothing stopping them from applying to the FIG for a residence permit, if they really want to go and live there.
Eloy: If Marcelo Luis Vernet wishes to move to Port Stanley that's fine with me. As to the others I would not say they have any right to move there. I've considered retiring to someplace remote, like Port Stanley, but I suspect that because I'm neither a British citizen or a returning islanders I would have a difficult time getting approved. I may argue that restricting my (or anyone else's) immigration is a poor long term social & economic decision but who am I to say my judgement & values are more important or valid than the people who live there. If they don't want me (or a big percentage of my pension check) that's their loss. I'm not going to start a boycott. I'll just find someplace else to retire. :-)
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.87 Malvinero1
Jan 19th, 2012 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More anti brit rhetoric, it does not help, [try to be more polite]
FALKLANDS GATE,
The Falklands does not hold the gate way, as you fear, ive, said it often, its how you interpret it, the south Atlantic is the gateway, to the rest of the world, not only from the UK but other northern countries, , there are [3] short cuts, panama canal , the Suez , and the gap between Russia and Alaska, all 3 can be closed, without much trouble, and without, the consent or agreement with any nation except their own, thus the only sure way out, [and the longest] is the south Atlantic, and this will never be closed, , no country has the power to do so, without considerable risk,
The gate way you are on about, are political, used by a country as a spring board to the Antarctic,
So and country controlling these islands or south Georgia, not only has land to operate from, but has added power of supply, [so there is a vast difference] in gateways, and their use, [many uses ]
ARGENTINA
Not only is her claim weak, but unjust,
In the 21st century all nations have a right to choose whom they wish to be, you cannot support one, then condemn the other, for the same thing, its called hypocrisy .everybody always condemns Britain as a past colonial power, this is totally unfair, arrogant , and self serving .[what is considered a colonial power][what is considered an empire] for any nation that jumps on the bandwagon,and tries to steal or claim , what others are trying to settle freely in a modern democracy, has to be, any sense of the world, a potential colonial power,
No other excuse is justified, either leave them alone, and allow them to get independence if they require this, go to court, or, resort to conflict, for as history will show, even the dimmest, sooner or later, he/she who keeps pushing without regard for the consequences, must back this up, or stand humiliated as a liar,
@91
Jan 20th, 2012 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“...the south Atlantic is the gateway, to the rest of the world, not only from the UK but other northern countries, , there are [3] short cuts, panama canal , the Suez , and the gap between Russia and Alaska, all 3 can be closed, without much trouble, and without, the consent or agreement with any nation except their own, thus the only sure way out, [and the longest] is the south Atlantic, and this will never be closed, , no country has the power to do so, without considerable risk...”
Not really. The Cape of Good Hope is a far better, shorter, and climatically safer gateway for sea vessels. Not really necessary for anyone in Eurasia to use the South Atlantic, they can go directly across the Pacific from East Asia, or from Europe and Africa to the east coast ports of America.
87 Malvinero1----- Yes, just keep telling yourselves that we are finished you poor deluded fool. You will see if we are finished soon enough if you carry on with your threats and lies.
Jan 20th, 2012 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina lived for two thousand years your puny little country because of your insistence of electing morons who tell you lie after lie would not have done half of what the Britain has done in just a couple of years.
A finished country moron does not build I billion £ warships or 6 billion £ aircraft carriers, a finished country does not have low inflation or gives out each year billions of £s in aid to third world countries like yours.
You’re a nothing nation, in fact I don't know why I call Argentina a nation it’s nothing more than a piece of land where deluded people live in anticipation of a better world and who are always each year left in a splendid poverty due to psychopaths leading them in to utter confusion.
If there are any people in Argentina who are normal in the head I would love to meet them, they will be a rare breed indeed.
Now I am off to bed safe in the knowledge that when I wake up in the morning the people on the Falkland's will still be speaking English and laughing their heads of at the antics of Argentine keyboard warriors sorry Bloggers such as you lot of morons who belong in some sort of psychiatric hospital for the deluded and insane.
LOL, I think between Malvinero and British Bulldog the psychiatric Hospital is closer than they think. :)
Jan 20th, 2012 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@76. O Gara, we are talking about the Falkland Islands and its people. Stick to the subject. Do not deflect. People deflect when they do not have a persuasive or factual answer. Lets stay on the subject of the people of the Falklands and their undeniable right to self-determination. If you do not allow people to use the right of self-determination and force an alien regime upon them, that is colonialism. Argentina wants to enforce its economic, political, social and cultural values on the the Falkland Islanders who do not want it, therefore denying their right to self-determination. That is colonialism. Now give me an answer to back up your claim that does not deflect or does not state that the Falkland Islanders do not have the right to self-determination, because the United Nations have never ever made any exceptions to this right. Everyone has this right.
Jan 20th, 2012 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 20th, 2012 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinero1, ticked off by his own side.
Jan 20th, 2012 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even they think that you are stupid signor!
AHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA
Or something like that.
@44
Jan 20th, 2012 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't play games. The Decolonization Committee has no authority on any level. It's members include the likes of Iran, Syria and Congo.
The only legal option available to Argentina is to apply to the ICJ but of course Argentina is too scared.
#98 The only legal option available to Argentina is to apply to the ICJ but of course Argentina is too scared.
Jan 20th, 2012 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Read history.Argentina invited 6 times to go to arbitration....
What the brits here do not realise,is that we have reached the end of the useful life of a system......Therefore why they insist in beting on a decadent system....
It is over guys....
73
Jan 20th, 2012 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I fear you are too complacent about the prospect of War.
Mrs Kirchner will continue her petty provocations until the UK is forced to react. The provocations will increase in intensity and the UK will respond in equal measure. Rather than a single event, there will be a series of events initiated by Kirchner and we will slip into a state of all out war almost by default.
Thank you for acknowledging that the UK would never be the aggressor in a war with Argentina which is absolutely correct.
@94 tobias
Jan 20th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just kids having fun!
Soon there will also be a North West passage open to shipping, at least for part of the year.
The economics are that as and when the antarctic is developed, supply routes will develope to the area being developed. Assuming that it is the peninsular because of the proximity of SA/Falklands, its most likely that there will be assiciated development in both SA/Falklands to meet the demand. An economic boom for all.
For this to happen it will require a political settlement first.
However no such settlement is required for the development of the S Atlantic
92 tobias
Jan 20th, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not really. The Cape of Good Hope is a far better, shorter, and climatically safer gateway for sea vessels. Not really necessary for anyone in Eurasia to use the South Atlantic, they can go directly across the Pacific from East Asia, or from Europe and Africa to the east coast ports of America
[][slightly wrong old chap]]
.northern countries,, i.e. european .
britton.Malvinas IS NOT Important....The brits recognized that in 1880 and after in the 1970-80 when they wanted to get rid of it...Remember maggie and Ridley???
Jan 21st, 2012 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0IS just Sheer stupidity!!
Anyway uk will loose the battle.
BTW,you said the british empire...Can you please help me find it???
Thanks
@Malvinero1,
Jan 21st, 2012 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0lt may not be important to you, malvinito, but it is lmportant to us.
And if its not that important, why do you lie & cheat to get it?
Anyway Argentina will lose(only one o, malvin)the battle.
As you well know, there is no British Empire, but you would like to see an Argentine Empire.
103 Malvinero1
Jan 21st, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not just wait and see,
Your ego is bursting with excitement, all you guys just cant wait to celebrate Argentina victory,
Just be patient my friends, Argentina will gets its long awaited victory,
And the world will rejoice in harmony with you,
[As soon as CFK goes] you will get your victory
Tickle tickle .
The hypocrisy in the words of Cameron is amazing. The response of Argentine officials was very measured. Britain is proving to be just political resources to face the dispute. Surely Cameron will continue doing militarist demagogy to cover internal problems and keep you busy. The truth is that he is concerned ... the international situation in our favor.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@106 ernvera,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only hypocrites here are the malvinistas.
You would seek to colonise OUR(NOT YOURS) lslands.
Ergo- you are colonialists. Tough bananas if you don't like it. lts true.
lf you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Hope this helps♥
lf you can't stand the heat .... lower the temperature or raise the air con? :-)
Jan 24th, 2012 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@107 Isolde,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment has no decent argument, it ignores the basic principles of geography and history, and denote a profound ignorance in your words. Read more history and see fewer movies. Sorry for my English.
To all of you Argentines who actually believe that we have no right to be on these Islands even though we are born and bred here Could anyone of you justify why you as succeeding generations of a people that took the Country of Argentina by force have any legitimate reason for your bieng allowed to continue to live there. After all you appear to assume we have no such rights.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Givin that our forefathers were living here many years before Argentina actually existed can you again justify what the hell your argument is all about. Seems to me it is nothing more than what we hear term as trying to keep up with the Jones. Unless any of you are over 200 years old you actually have no more right to dictate to us what we can or can not do or that you should be allowed to call the Occupied Country of Argentina your home either.
Finally how would you feel as a people if we the Falkland Islanders made legel representation to remove you from your home because we decided that we might like to have it. Bet you would all be fighting your corner am I right.
@110 kelperabout,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very well said, kelperabout.
malvinistas are just indoctrinated idiots who can't think for themselves.
@109 ernvera,
Don't watch too many films(movies)except documentaries.
Read & research a lot of history.
l think that l know more about history & geography than you do.
l do know that you malvinista are deluded & mis-informed.
And you have NEVER owned, nor ever will own the Falklands.
IT IS NOT YOUR LAND.
And so, there will be NO NEGOTIATIONS on Sovereignty.
Your English is quite understandable.
In fact, the United Nations does not recognize the kelpers as part of the negotiation. Our claim is territorial, nationality does not interest us. If you're worried, your lifestyle will be respected. You fill your mouths talking about self-determination, but the truth is that kelpers are British, and your homeland is 14.000 kilometers of the Falklands. In addition, the British geopolitical interest in the Falklands is related to its territorial claims in Antarctica, a delusion ...
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong again, ernvera.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't care what you think.We will be what nationality that we want & its got nothing to do with you or anyone else.
This NOT your territory. Our homeland is here.
The British claimed part of Antarctica 40 years before Argentina tried to muscle in.
Antarctica may not be ours but it certainly is NOT yours.
You are just johnny-come-latelys.
Stay in your own broken country & try to fix it.
Apparently you don't understand what I'm saying, no one wants to change your nationality, we are not interested in that. Our claim is for the territory, which was usurped in 1833. Argentina has a scientific base in Antarctica since 1904, the first on the continent.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surely not our islands? Why the United Nations recognizes as legitimate our claim then? The truth is that the Kelpers are used as a screen to cover the NATO military base that sits there. But be alert, our time is coming soon.
@114 ernvera,
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a complete tissue of lies, you spout.
You are the one who doesn't understand.
You do NOT own the Falklands, despite what you were taught at school.
You own NOTHING here.
We don't give a rat's arse about your claim.
Show me where it says that the UN recognises your ridiculous “claim”.
You are lying, the UN does not say that.
So our time is coming is it? Another threat? You country is good at threats.
lf you are so sure of your “rights” then why doesn't your country take this to the ICJ? Too afraid, maybe?
Does that also mean 112 ernvera * that you also have no right to live in Argentina. You claim we are 14000 kilometers from our home so BY THE SAME TOKEN your home is almost the same distance. SPAIN where you orriginated from . It truly amazes us Islanders how people like you are so tunneled in your vision of our existance. Who educated you or in this case tried too. You certainly have a lot of growing up to do and quite frankly you are not qualified enough in my belief to even be discussing something you clearly know absolutly nothing about.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I sugest to you now to quit and let the real people decide their own destiny we seem to be doing it much better than your lot and thats a fact. Oh before I go what would your reaction be if we laid claim to your homeland. Seems every time that question is proposed Argentines ignore or change the subject. I can only guess it rattles your cage.
Talk with you is like arguing with a monkey. Lies? Suck this mandarin:
Jan 25th, 2012 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/spanish/News/fullstorynews.asp?newsID=9746
http://www.un.org/spanish/News/fullstorynews.asp?newsID=9746
I will not answer crap like “this are our islands, not yours”...Please, try to think a little ... ups, you need a brain for that.
Furthermore, the “threatening” are you. Times have changed, the royal colonialism is history.
Bye
Certainly getting to you 117 ernvera (#). My My what have we here. a Cornered rat maybe. Seems the truth hurts a little. Not nive to have someone actually stand up to you 117 ernvera (#) especially an inteligant Falkland Islander.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 03:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I sugest you run along to mummy now and hide behind her skirt because it appears you are quite upset over the fact I dare challange you.
Yes these islands belong to the Falkland Islanders not Argentina, Not Britain , Not anyone else for that matter because we have 200 pluss years of history to back it all up. It hurts to be told that 117 ernvera (#) but you may as well get used to the idea because it is exactly how it is.
The reason you won't answer me is because you have no answers because in the eyes of the world what I say is fact and like it or not democracy is the new world order not dictatorship.
Not so funny is it when finally you can no longer bully someone to get what you want. Those days are gone forever fact
@118 kelperabout,
Jan 25th, 2012 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0He's probably gone outside & kicked his dog.
Hope we've driven one more idiotic malvinista from these pages!
l still can't get over their cheek regarding their “rights”!
# 117 and # 119
Jan 25th, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Talk with you is like arguing with a monkey.....”
LOL
Really fast how people interpret your IQ Mrs hooligan Isolde ....you´re a waste of time lady, a disgrace to people of goodwill in the islands and in the mainland Argentina...
Shame on you and how you´re educating your daugthers with such hate in your soul.....
117 was in response to my friend Isolde 115
Jan 25th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0this is is response of kelperabout 116. 118 and 119 don't need and answer...“dan un poquito de lástima” ;)
First, we must have some knowledge to speak so lightly of another country.
Our nation is made up of a massive immigration and miscegenation, there are Argentines of all ethnic backgrounds (Hispanic, Italian, Indian, Arab, Peru, Bolivia, Germany, etc). From there comes the “criollaje” as a pure expression of America. Besides, we became independent in 1816 the Spanish kingdom, for your information.
The kelpers not constitute any nation, are mere descendants of British usurpers, who took our islands in 1833.
And again, you kelpers can do whatever you want, we are not talking of/with you. We only demand OUR historic land. Bye bye.
@121 ernvera
Jan 25th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets have another recap of what the average Argentinian thinks:
QUOTE “
The kelpers not constitute any nation, are mere descendants of British usurpers, who took our islands in 1833.
And again, you kelpers can do whatever you want, we are not talking of/with you. We only demand OUR historic land. Bye bye.”
Are you fantasizing about evicting Isolde and the other Falklanders from their homes? That would be a typical Argentinian view from my observations of what you people post on these forums.
The very way many Argentinians frame their opinions on the islands reminds me of the Nazis in WW2. They considered the Russians and Poles to be Untermensh, literally sub human.
Such people could be cast aside, displaced or even killed in the pursuit of Lebensraum. Just like you want to do in Falklands. To you the islanders are non-people, not deserving of any normal consideration.
My oh my have'nt the schools in Argentina done well churning out a bunch like you lot....
I wonder if you would have the guts to go the Falklands and make yourself drag women and children from their homes, or would you like someone else to do your dirty work for you?
I bet you'd be too scared or ashamed to do it yourself.
The same comment goes to any of the other Malvinistas here. Lets see who is the biggest fascist. Who would do it themselves? Any takers?
I only hope that if it came to war you would suffer too. It may not be so much fun then........
Go ahead and swear at me or call me moronic names, I really don't care.
@122 shb
Jan 26th, 2012 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a way to distort things. First, those who do not recognize the kelpers as subject of law are the United Nations, as they are considered British and therefore Britain represents them. Secondly, I never said we want to banish the kelpers, the contrary, always said that their lifestyle would be respected if Argentina recovered the territory. Never expel anyone, on the contrary, Argentina is a country that constantly receives people from all over the world with open arms, we are not a racist country or anything like that. Greetings, and leave your delusions for Hollywood.
@123 ernvera
Jan 26th, 2012 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You still want to forcibly make them either
A) live under a foreign government - effectively a state of occupation
or
B) Leave the islands
That is exactly your position.
I am not distorting your position. You are in denial of what your position actually means. This is'nt hollywood as you pointed out- there are real people in real homes involved. They are'nt going to suddenly be won over and sing “don't cry for me argentina” like in some trashy romcom. They don't want anything to do with you.
Go ahead and tell me how it can be otherwise. Explain how you would treat them if you got hold of the islands.
How would you like it if the UK claimed your home? What if we made you swear allegiance to the Queen? Made you drive on the left? Mad eall documentation in both languages? Started importing British settlers?
Bet you would'nt like that.
You can leave your delusions of grandeur to yourself. We are'nt going to give anything to you people.
@120 so_far,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0l don't hate anyone(yet!).
But l despise lying stupid malvinistas,
l see that you've finally learned how to spell “hooligan”! Well done.
lt doesn't insult me to be called a hooligan, like pirate, it has a certain raffish, rebellious air to it & l think l quite like it. So go right ahead.
@123 ernvera,
Thats very nice of you.
You will respect our culture etc etc, but you want our land.
How condescending mr colonialist. btw- you can't recover what you never owned. So it is impossible for Argentina to “recover” our lslands.
Well we are NOT going to give you OUR lslands & you ARE a racist country.
@124 shb
Jan 26th, 2012 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is the last time I repeat it, we are not interested in kelpers. If they want to be British, then go to Britain (let's see how you receive them). If they decide to stay, their lifestyle will be respected, but they have to know that they will no longer live in a colonial monarchy, but in a democratic republic. I repeat, our claim is for an area that we consider ours, which we were deprived. By the way, it's funny that a British talk of “real people”, when you have done calamiddes with humanity, even in my country through the infamous “economic colonialism”. If you want us to feel sorry for 3.000 descendants of usurpers, when you invade countries on a daily basis (including Argentina in 1806-1807) ... not going to make.
I will not answer again, unless a poor ape like Isolde.
@126 ernvera
Jan 26th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0QUOTE”This is the last time I repeat it, we are not interested in kelpers. If they want to be British, then go to Britain (let's see how you receive them). ”
The last time Falklanders left the islands because of Argentine occupation - (1982) they were only here temporarily. They told us about the disgusting way you people treated them too.
You tell me that 3000 people don't matter - how about if We evicted 3000 Argentinians from their homes? You have had your fair share of colonial adventures too, by the way. Most of them failed abysmally. You even had your own little tinpot native genocide so don't try and play the “we never did anything wrong” card.
You have a very stalin like approach to things - I suppose 3000 people being booted out is just a statistic to you.
I suggest you gather more intelligence about perspective foes by the way, unless you're being deliberately obtuse the UK has a functioning democracy that pre-dates yours by a long, long way. That's why the Falklanders count so much, we value freedom, and will fight to defend it against all comers. They have spoken on the issue and we will uphold their decision.
I won't feel sorry for your lot either, if things go bad. I don't care what happens to the enemy.........
@127 shb Here we say..“Para qué gastar pólvora en chimangos”..
Jan 26th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First, do not cut the quote because it changes the meaning of what I said. I never spoke of driving the kelpers, I repeat again, we don't want to banish them. Understand? They have the freedom to do whatever they want. As I said earlier, their lifestyle will be respected, it's in our Constitution. But we have to start from the basis that they are living in America thinking that they are in Europe ... first contradiction.
Second, there must be a bit hypocritical to accuse Argentina of being a colonial country when we are a victim of colonialism. The “genocide native” you say is a complete distorisión of the facts, issued from London, from where you encourage separatists policies and all indigenous movements in South America. Here, natives, immigrants and criollos live together under the same flag. Apparently you still smarting from not being able to conquer Patagonia, only came to the islands. I don't want to imagine the slaughter that you would have taken on these lands.
Third, to raise the self-determination for kelpers is absurd, since they do not constitute either an aboriginal people of the islands, not a separate nation from Britain. They came to the islands with the conquest, it is absurd to raise a right to self determination for those who never ceased to be British.
Fourth, why should we worry us kelpers to be liked? They depend on us geographically, they could not survive without America beside. What have they done to strengthen ties with us? I'm not talking only of Argentina, I'm talkin' of an entire continent of which they form part, but they think not. They know nothing of us, only the lies of the British multimedia, in the service of financial imperialism, tell them (and evidently to you too).
Saludos camaradas, see you.
@126 ernvera,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say that this is “the last time that l repeat it”
Can we count on that? That you won't make any more stupid & ridiculous statements?
Hope so,
Thank you.
Then you call me an ape?
Well l'd rather be an ape than a stupid malvinista like you are.
Just for you, ernvera:-
1) The Falklands are NOT yours.
2) The Falklands have NEVER been yours.
3) The Falklands will NEVER be yours.
4) The Falklands are OURS.
5) There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
6) You ARE colonialists, just too bad if you don't like it.
Saludos to you too.
@128 Ernvera
Jan 26th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the contrary, despite my interest in military history, I don't regret one iota not conquering any part of Argentina. It's pointless to do so, it belongs to a different era. It would make as much sense as regreting the Roman occupation of England and blaming the modern day italians for it.....
Against the sweep of the Napoleonic wars the failure in BA is small beans. Par for the course in a full scale world war.
You claim to be the victim of colonialism - I presume you are again refering to the attempted invasions of Buenos Ares, see above comment.
You can't claim a damn thing about the retaking of the Falklands in 1833, we did'nt recognise your right to usurp our sovereignty. We reclaimed what was ours since before you're country existed.
The aggressor here is you. You are the ones trying to isolate the islanders and you are the ones who will initiate hostilities if they break out again. Despite what you say, I believe that you people would attack again if you think you could get away with it.
You claim that the Falklanders would be respected then state “But we have to start from the basis that they are living in America thinking that they are in Europe ... first contradiction.” What does this mean?
You then wonder at the end of your post why the islanders have done nothing to strengthen their ties with south america! My mind boggled at this little gem.
Ask yourself this question - would you want anything to do with a hostile nation that invaded you in recent time, left land mines everywhere, denied your right to self determination, refused to let you fly your flag on your ships in South American waters, told others to try and fish out squid before they could arrive in your waters, insulted your home nation constantly on the world stage then tried to (possibly) organise a half baked fishermans invasion of your home town to raise the flag of said hostile country and still wants to conquer you?
@130 shb,
Jan 26th, 2012 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Extremely well said, shb.
But after all that, they still think that they are the victims!
And l not only think that they would invade us if they could get away with it, l believe that they will definitely try again in the future.
I quite honestly believe that the Argentines will always shout from the roof tops wether it is about the Falklands, or any other place in the world. That sadly is the nature of this people. The one thing we Falkland Islanders can be proud to say we have never gloated about our existance, we have never done anything physically to upset the Argentines. We have always opend our homes to anyone who cares to come and share our way of life.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0I also believe that even if another super power were to intervene in their silly games it would not stop them from stirring the pot.
I also strongly believe that OIL is and always will be the key to this age old problem. It is clear that the world powers are looking to find more oil reserves for their energy greedy nations people and the Falklands may well have the next big North Sea senerio knocking on the door.
I also believe that there is a further more deadly element that is causing so much controvesy and it might be in the form of Uranium which it has been said could be in huge quantities under our land.
That alone would be the icing on any dictators cake especially if they were trying to guild a nuclear bomb.
There is much going on around us we do not fully understand and the powers appear to be quite content to let the lessor mortals verbaly abuse each other while behind the scenes biger fish are about to be fried.
Time will tell I think.
But after all that, they still think that they are the victims!
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0And l not only think that they would invade us if they could get away with it, l believe that they will definitely try again in the future.
I will definitely try in the future for a cup of tea!!!
@133
Jan 27th, 2012 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have a look in your kitchen 1st. Try the object called a “kettle”.
@ 131 Isolde. I really hope they don't. The news services up here are carrying (optimistic) messages about the Argentinian military being too weak for an invasion. The only problem with this sort of crowing is that it so often is proven wrong.
I am not sure if they can land enough troops to overcome the garrison in an operation like they launched in 1982. I can see them trying some sort of “cod war” scenario -or a blockade. They could also land enough troops in outlying areas and South Georgia from the Santissisma Trinidad (a destroyer transport) to raise the flag , and force a large scale reinforcement of the islands to retake the territory taken. A full scale invasion would be a difficult thing to organise and carry out with the Cabo San Antonio, their now deleted LST.
However, I would not rule out their thinking around the problem, by employing military auxillaries and civilian transports to carry troops.
Lets hope that fatih, hope charity and desperation are ready for action. The FAA has nothing to match them.
Of Course, an RN attack sub would spell game over for most Argentine invasion scenarios.
@134 shb,
Jan 27th, 2012 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hope you're right.
Antarctica is a glittering prize.
We may have more to worry about than Argentina.
@135 Isolde.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will see what happens in the next round of exploratory drilling. If there is a lot of oil you may find that other nations take a more active interest in your area.
I understand that Anadarko may try to buy out rockhopper, so it looks like the USA may be after a piece of the action.
By the way - I met some Falklanders a couple of years back - they were at a bird watching/conservation fair in England. Nice folks. When I mentioned your ASBO neighbours in South America to them they rolled their eyes. They were a little concerned about oil safety, to protect your nesting seabirds, but they were very optimistic.
All we have to do is “keep calm and carry on”, and I'm sure that sooner or later the Falklands get some oil wealth, whereas the aforementioned neighbours won't.
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