MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“Hard to understand why a country of 45 million threatens the Falklands with 3.000 inhabitants”
A member from the Falkland Islands’ elected Legislative Assembly said it’s hard to understand why a country of 45 million people like Argentina insists in threatening a country of 3.000, and underlined there’s not a single Islander who wants to be an Argentine. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesGood old Dick Sawle , you tell em mate.
Jan 22nd, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He got 'self-determination' in 4 times. Makes Tinman look like a rather inexoperienced politico!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Sawle, 45 million want to recover our Malvinas Islands that are Argentina, we are not 3.000 people. All of South America, Central America, Caribbeans, Russia, China and USA support the Argentine claims that the Brits to sit Argentineans negotiate, how the brits should be returned the islands. I think there are more than three thousand people who for years are on Argentine's soil, Really Mr Sawlen is very hard to undertand this in XXI!!!! The time is over for a facto goverment in our beautiful islands.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Sounds like 45 million would be colonists!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0the Falklands are not Argentine soil. What Union Flag of the Falklands flies over the Island not that blue and white rag.If you don't want to discuss soverignty what is it you want to negotiate. Soverignty is the right of the Islanders to decide. Fact
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 04 Viva Las Malvinas
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0you are wrong!!mate
When one understands the power of seven decades of Argentine state indoctrination, it is not at all difficult to understand Argentine bigotry and consequent systematic political and economic persecution of the Falkland Islanders by the Argentines
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Carlos Escudé's social research explains the phenomenon incisively succinctly:
www.argentina-rree.com/documentos/culture_escude.htm
Shame on Argentina
When one understands the power of seven decades of Argentine state indoctrination, it is not at all difficult to understand Argentine bigotry and consequent systematic political and economic persecution of the Falkland Islanders by the Argentines
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0sawle: So now Malvinas is a country?/ AHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
Time for uk to start negotiation........
Mr Sunday: You are wrong..NOOO BODY indoctrinet us.BTW.Mr Escude now defends CFK.....He just follows the wind...
CARLOS ESCUDÉ APOYA A LOS KIRCHNER
http://www.diariodelchango.com/drupal/node/352
Sorry,but we have a brain of our own..And Argentina will win this one...We are winning now...No QUESTION about that..
You are wrong britton....the cut date is not 2015......But we will get Malvinas...uk is going down..Just care of the 3 million unemployed in uk.....and the 9 trillion pound debt...
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0There`s nothing hard to understand the policy of Argentina toward the Falklands...!! Before the war of 1982, Argentina was very close to declare war to Chile for the Beagle Channel. Many years before that, they occupied the “Isla Martin Garcia” in Uruguayans waters of the Rio Uruguay. A lot of years before they promoted the invasion to Paraguay.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Each time they were in bad economy and social situation. They repeat the method of deception for the people. Insecurity, Social uncertainty facts that promote the use of the repertoire forever: Nationalism, Radicalism. They `re PRE-MAQUIAVELLI and don`t understand negotiation.
Gracias,my friend kipling....Ojo al piojo!Big hugg!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0We highly despise your type; Okupa, Squatter.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UN has said since a long time ago that the self-determination doesn´t apply to this case and UK doesn´t want to hear. In addition, UN and a lot of countries including US are asking UK to negotiate with Argentina now without spending more time. UK must stop lying! Argentina don´t want to damage the Islanders however it can´t accept (and of course all South America can´t accept) vessels using flags with the false name of “Falklands Islands” when everybody know that these Islands are named “Malvinas Argentinas” because they belong to the province of Tierra del Fuego in Argentina.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 045 million? Did Argentina annex anyone during the weekend I'm not aware of?
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fancy a challenge JF ?
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Show me the UN report that says that the right of self-determination does not apply to the Falkland Islanders !
I look forward to seing that :-)
In fact - show me a UN GA Resolution in the last 10 years, or even 20 years, that asks the UK to negotiate over the Falklands.
Show me where the UK is 'lying'.
Show me that the Falklands belong to Tierra del Fuego - legally !
Or are you all mouth, and no trousers ?
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well done Marv - wrong on just about every point.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not easy, I'm sure :-)
I should point out that Argentina was not a nation in 1810, didn't declare its independence till 1816 (backdating it fools no-one) and the trespassing garrison in 1833 had no rights to be there. Goodbye trespassing garrison.
Hope that helps :-)
should point out that Argentina was not a nation in 1810, didn't declare its independence till 1816 (backdating it fools no-one) and the trespassing garrison in 1833 had no rights to be there. Goodbye trespassing garrison.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0lordt: You got an F in Argentine history,uk are the squatters..and you will be out for good...
Argentine history? Sorry, a pot of yogurt has more culture than Argentina. If anyone feels that self-determination doesn't apply then this would have to be challenged at the ICJ.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3, 6
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Antes que nada, stop calling us mate - you ain't!
Those countries may support claims to go to the UN, but that does not mean all the people in them do (support those claims - as your English is so dodgy I just thought I'd make that clear for you...)
The “beautiful islands” ain't yours, never have been, never will be.
Blah Blah...I'm so sick of reading how the Falkland Islands are not the Falkland Islands because all the manly men of Argentina know they are really called “Malvinas Argentinas” by real men and have been since the real manly men if Argentina were illegally asked to leave in eighteen thirty...blah blah blah
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just invade, kill everything and shut up already. Or just shut up already.
@13: You are wrong. UN Treaty is international law & UN Charter Article 73 says:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES
Article 73
Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for the administration of territories whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government recognize the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, & accept as a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the system of international peace and security established by the present Charter, the well-being of the inhabitants of these territories, &, to this end:
to ensure, with due respect for the culture of the peoples concerned, their political, economic, social, & educational advancement, their just treatment, & their protection against abuses;
to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, & to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory & its peoples & their varying stages of advancement;
to further international peace & security;
to promote constructive measures of development, to encourage research, to co-operate with one another &, when & where appropriate, with specialized international bodies with a view to the practical achievement of the social, economic, and scientific purposes set forth in this Article; &
to transmit regularly to the Secretary-General, for informational purposes, subject to such limitation as security & constitutional considerations may require, statistical & other information of a technical nature relating to economic, social, & educational conditions in the territories for which they are respectively responsible other than those territories to which Chapters XII & XIII apply”
If Argentine nationalist political agenda wants otherwise, Argentina must overturn the law at the UN International Court of Justice
I'm confused. Don't they have dentists in The Queens prison ????
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ahh 9am coffee and a look at the FI oil markets:
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0RKH +5%
FOGL +7%
BOR +2.5%
DES +7%
This is all compounded on top of last weeks gains which means Beef's equity holdings are supercharged andy open long position has made me more than a months salary in the past three trading days.
Think I will work at home today and get the house ready for tonight's Chinese New Year party.
I see the market and Mr Big Oil have made their mind up about the relevance of Argentina to FI oil, i.e about as relevant as my most recent fart is to the melting ice caps :-)
Lets just get this straight, we tried to negotiate before the war. In fact we WANTED to get rid of the islands as we saw them as a political landmine. We took measures, not all of them fair to try and integrate the islands. and make them feel more south american, to change their self determination.This included severing supply links and boats. But they still wanted to be British. We carried on with negotiations, but the Argies wanted unconditional sovereignty over the Islands, and we had a duty to the islanders not to wave their rights. When you invaded, you severed any hopes of negotiations, and only strengthened the islanders reservation of becoming Argentinian. Through YOUR aggressive actions you destroyed any hope of diplomatically obtaining the islands . Now that British Lives have been lost, defending the Islanders , we will never waste their sacrifice by ignoring the very Rights and principles that they fought to protect. No Exceptions.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain and FI just have to stay calm and strong. The truth is that, while Argentina's diplomatic gains are irritating, they are illusory. They are now further away from ever achieving their irrational, expansionist dream. It's not the rest of the world they have to convince but the islanders. They just don't get it.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0@13 everybody know that these Islands are named “Malvinas Argentinas” because they belong to the province of Tierra del Fuego in Argentina............ Can you show me a map that is not Argentinian with the Malvinas Argentinas marked on it ? Despite what you think,Argentina is not the centre of the Universe.It is a tin-pot South American country with the village idiot as President,broke.corrupt and on its way to world isolation. Your politicians only want the oil....nothing else.....and its not yours and you cant have it.Drilling started today...hip hip hooray !
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0The British government is an arse.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0They do not need to negotiate or sit down with the Argie Bargies - they simply cannot be trusted. Not even their own people trust their corrupt governments or their neighbours for that matter.
The restrictions or economic blockade being imposed by South America on a people with a right to self-determination, not all British, is illegal - full stop. This must be challenged subject to international laws - on mnay levels.
@13 No, you silly little boy, the UN has said nothing of the sort. The Fourth Committe, mostly composed of south american nonentities, have said so, but they don't count. Nor does the UN count. All it ever does is suggest negotiations. Negotiations that are pointless because of the argie constitution. No point in responding to the rest of your drivel.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you insist on commenting on the affairs of “The Land of the Queers”? You do realise they'll be coming for you next, don't you? “The Land of the Queers” is a belligerent, aggressive, acquisitive, colonialist sh*theap that always requires more backsides to screw. But then, maybe you like it!
Chinese New Year Resolution,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0To all you malvinistas,
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
ls that clear?
Such a good job Argentina once again and again! The whole world speaks of the sovereignty dispute all the time, gets to know the truth and becomes aware of Argentina's peaceful stance and growing support. This is exactly the least that the UK expects: the existence of the dispute and the need to solve it cannot be no longer hidden or denied! Come to terms with it UK both in London and your colony!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”MLA Sawle indicated that “we have 250 Chileans, people from St Elena, 500 of them, we’re just 3.000 but it’s a mix from all over the world, there’s nothing implanted but I can assure you I never came across a single person who wants to be ruled by Argentina, this is essential because we’re talking of self determination”.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This an interesting statistic. And it gets even more interesting if you add the nearly 1,000 british who came to the islands since 1982 which means that two thirds of the islands' population are recent arrivals who came to the islands for only one reason - to seek work and make money.
So I ask you Mr.Sawle a simple question:
When this present sovereignty dispute reaches a crisis will those two thirds of the islands' population risk losing not just the opportunity to make a lot of money from the oil but also face the prospect of a future on some british council estate struggling to live on welfare payments - or will they think of the money first and sovereignty second?
After all Mr.Sawle - under a sovereignty exchange the islanders rights would be guaranteed under the UN charter which means they would retain their british citizenship and autonomy.
Would Mr.Sawle and his colleagues in the Islands' parliament consider putting this question to the islanders in the form of a referendum?
32 - Sovereignty exchanges who is talking about that! for the last time your country didnt exist when the UK first claimed the Falklands. Argentina itself displaced / killed native inhabitants. In fact the whole of South American is settled by Spanish / Portuguese Colonists. Back to the real world self determination charter will always be upheld, you refuse to take it to court at the UN where your suprious claim will be blown out of the water because it does not exist. Concentrate on your own countries failing economy.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chinese New Year Resolution,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To all you malvinistas,
There will be NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
ls that clear?
AHAHAHAH.Who cares isolde.....The UN,USA and MErcosur OAS,said there are 2 parts only....everybody is ignoring you...
“He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time till at length it becomes habitual.”Thomas Jefferson.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dick Sawle''s lies:
“it’s inexplicable how a country with 45 million inhabitants can threat a country with a population of 3,000”
You are curently not a country, but an overseas territory. Thas is what you choose to be.
“the intention of the Falklands elected Government is to “establish a dialogue with Argentina as we believe that the government of President Cristina Fernández will always follow peaceful means for discussion””. This has never happened in the past and will not happen in the foreseeable future, because islanders are reluctant to establish contact with Argentina in particular and Latin America in general.
“said Sawle who denied point blank that the Islands population was implanted, “the Islands population is made up from all over the world””. with the noticeable exception of all neighbouring countries, except Chile. Is this a coincidence?
“Sawle remarked that “The Falkland Islands administration is not dependent on the United Kingdom””.
Well, the Governor is appointed by the U.K., isn´t he? Sawle himself is not a native islander; he was born in Sheffield (U.K.), studied there and came to the islands after the war, under a two-years contract as a teacher. He later turned into a fishery entrepreneur and later retired to embrace a political career, as stated in his biography.
“Lying and stealing are next door neighbors”. Arab proverb
The Falkland Islands population is about as 'implanted' as the Argentine population !
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur will last about 10 minutes because Argentina is putting up trade barriers to Brazil and all the thieves will fall out.The USA will say yes to Argentina ,talk to Britain and then do nothing and the UN will ignore Argentina's claim until Argentina will go there and clear up the “self determination” bit. Malvinero you and your politicians are a bunch of Pequero's !
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 032 dreyfoss
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a MAJOR problem with holding a referendum on the Falklands (there are no Malivinas) and it is this: how can the Islanders TRUST that if they were to 'join' with Argentina in any way or form, that the term you use “under a sovereignty exchange the islanders rights would be guaranteed under the UN charter which means they would retain their british citizenship and autonomy” would be honoured?
If I were an Islander, given the Fascist Government of wannabee thugs and gangsters (and they have demonstrated this by their actions) of Argentina I would NEVER, EVER, to the day I died vote in favour of any alliance or whatever you may want to call it.
That is the problem that the actions of Argentina herself have invoked in the Islanders.
It does not matter one jot for all the apoplectic bloggers to claim the world backs them or that the UK is finished!!! AHAHAHAHAHAH and all the other nonsense. Nothing Argentina does by yacking and bluster will change a thing.
It's either invade (no chance of that) or the ICJ. But YOU know that don't you?
The Falklands want to live in Peace and to be left alone to pursue its own Goals, the Islanders decided to be a British Overseas Territory and are NOT interested in being argentine!!!!!
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Falklands.
@32 So do tell us, when is this present sovereignty “dispute” going to reach a “crisis”? Have you noticed that this matter was resolved in 1850? And again in 1982? Have you noticed that Britain pays no serious attention to you? Have you noticed that the only bit of the UN that pays any attention is the Fourth Committee? The one that you've packed with SA supporters. Have you noticed how many countries consider the Fourth Committee irrelevant?
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@35 I'm glad that you've brought up that arab proverb. Incidentally, in the last 201 years, is “lying and stealing” not normal argieland practice?
Here's a thought for you. You KNOW that your government lies to you about your economy, don't you? Is it not the case that they tell you your inflation is around 10.6%? When it is actually between 22% and 25%. So you know that CFK and her gangsters lie on a daily basis. Now what else do they lie to you about?
What is argieland except a colony. Admittedly, one that rebelled and is therefore composed of criminals on two counts. Criminal for rebelling against the lawful Spanish government. Criminal for its many acts of genocide.
“He who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and a third time till at length it becomes habitual.”Thomas Jefferson.
Argentina's lies: Argentina “inherited” the Falkland Islands from Spain. Not possible. Spain did not have undisputed sovereignty. In fact, all it “owned” was the old French settlement that it had bought.
Argentina has always claimed the Falklands. Not so. The Treaty of 1850 did not mention the Islands but stated that it resolved all disputes.
Argentine settlers were forced out in 1833. Not so. They were invited to stay and most did.
Luis Vernet was the first legitimate governor. Not true. Vernet was authorised to conduct a commercial operation by the British Consul. Vernet engaged in piracy.
The Islands were claimed for Argentina by David Jewett. Not possible. Jewett was an American and a pirate.
Well, the answer to the question is easy and obvious... OIL.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malviner - people can ignore us all they wish, as British sovereignty is beyond doubt then we do not need any support or attention. After it is Argentina that is desperate to be noticed (and is being ignored).
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only attention we appear to be getting is interest from Mr Big Oil including a big company with connections to the Pentagon :-)
Where is Marcos today to comment on sp fluctuations?
35 yaghan
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent analysis.
Biography:
Dick Sawle was born in Sheffield in the UK in 1954. He was educated in Lancashire at Rossall School, and post A levels studied Spanish, South American Studies and Egyptology at Liverpool University. After University he did a postgraduate teaching certificate at Westminster College in Oxford. His first teaching job was at a boarding school in Shropshire, where he taught Spanish and French as well as a variety of outdoor pursuits including climbing, windsurfing, skiing and squash. He also taught English in Spain.
Dick came to the Falklands in 1986 to teach Spanish for two years. When his contract had finished, he continued in the Falklands, got married and founded his own fishing company with his wife Judith. They have two grown-up children – Jamie and Felicity.
Their fishing company, Seaview Limited, grew and expanded and with Spanish partners...
http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assembly/Hon._Dick_Sawle.html
43 Marcos Alejandro
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for that Marcos. Windsurfing and Egyptology- he's a bit more interesting than most of your knuckle- headed politicians. I certainly would have voted for him.
@ 42 marcos alejandro
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also interesting is that in 1987, when the Islands government agreed to allow the families of fallen Argentine servicemen to the islands to visit the cemetary at Darwin, it was Mr.Sawle - as a Spanish speaker - who volunteered to escort them as guide and translater.
@ 38 ChrisR (#)
In this 'new world order' honour and loyalty play no part . People think only of their survival and their security and money buys both.
I see drey acknowledges the kindness of the Islanders in accommodating the families of those abandoned by your gvt. who unfortuntatly met their end due to a futile endeavor.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Despite your acknowledgment your gvt and countrymen continue with the aggressive rhetoric.
Hey Marcos, nice mvts on the old equity markets today ;-)
@46
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and yet he still demands that the islanders be subjugated just so that his nation's mastabatory expansionist fantasies and nationalist dogma may be placated. all the while screaming about argentina being “the true victim”.
such sickening ingratitude for any magnanimity and forgiveness however is to be expected from such a delusional and self important nation.
The ammount of the population is irrelevant and does not invalidate Argentina´s claim.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As per UN: FI is a colony. It´s not self governing. The islanders are not part of the conflict and no self determination right is recognized.
The lack of arguments to maintain the ilegal occupation make these kind of non sense statements come up from our british friends. Argentina has 45 million people... so what?
@48
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0any population would automatically invalidate argentina's claim... had argentina ANY legal or historical argument or fact in support of it's claim in the first place.
as per UN LAW and legally binding ICJ PRECEDENT the islanders have full self determination, and are the sole owners of their land, their resources, and the UK also possess full sovereignty due to the Islander's wishes.
if argentina thinks otherwise, it needs to overturn each and every one of these laws and precedents, as well as provide genuine historical sources to evidence it's claim in the first place, as well as prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the few dozen historical sources which disprove it are fraudulent.
in short you have zero fucking chance whatsoever, even when you count out the islanders. your government knows this, which is why it refuses to go to court, and instead tries (and fails) to bully the islanders into submission.
this entire issue is due to argentina's grossly inflated sense of superiority, divine right, importance, power, righteousness and of course your dimensional self pitying obsession with victimhood, where despite your sickening extermination and land thefts throughout your history against natives and non whites, both your neighbors and the native tribes, you demand to be recognized as victims of persecution, simply because you were not able to subjugate and steal more land.
it would be funny were it not so pathetic
Islas - if it illegal then why do you not take us to court. If you are so certain of a legal victory then I imagine this would be what you want to happen.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thant is unless you have doubts? :-)
Back into your shithole Islas.
@beef
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0to be honest i think this guy sums it up the best.
http://www.argentina-rree.com/documentos/culture_escude.htm
argentina has a deeply inflated sense of it's importance, power, righteousness and relevance, which is why it always falls back on the tactics of bullying and harassment backing their authoritarian demands, as it thinks these will at some point be heeded due to argentina's importance.
given the statements that have been emanating from the argentine government as of late, they seem to think both nations are engaged in some apocalyptic contest of power in which argentina, backed by god, will ultimately triumph, simply because they cannot fathom how utterly powerless and insignificant the world finds them.
OIL
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 045 Dreyfoss
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In this 'new world order' honour and loyalty play no part . People think only of their survival and their security and money buys both.”
If this is the case, and the Falklands (there are no Malvinas) manage to get what they should from oil: just why would they ever bother with Argentina?
To use your expression 'they could buy both' from whoever they wished. :o)
8 Malvinero1
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong britton....the cut date is not 2015
Would you care to define this please .
.
44 Monty69
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know, the politicians of your De Facto Government never seize to amaze me, like that Englishman Dick Sawle or the leaving Barbados boy Tim T.
For example the last one was suspended for corruption somewhere else but later appointed to a similar job in your De Facto Gov.
BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/south_west/6971997.stm
first of all I want to inform you that I am Argentine and to comply with the standard of writing in English I avail myself of some tools that internet provides me to do and I understand they are not as accurate.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand I am a citizen who is objectively looking, light of these facts controversial. Finally I would like to leave my opinon and be treated as such.
It is obvious that history is not written with the same pen! depending on the interests of everyone. It would be interesting to those who contribute data to do so with serious references and citations target value. From what I could find (I repeat, does not mean it's true) Britain rejected the historical hypothesis lately due to being loose “papers” and therefore turned to the defense of self-determination. At this point there are also considerable controversy given that international law considers the self-determination of indigenous peoples and in my opinion this is not the case, it is true that they are in that place for years, but tbn is true that never ceased to claim the saberanía by Argentina and the concept of limitations is applicable internationally to 50 years without claim and that did not happen. I think that self-determination as it is today claiming it would lead to a kind of anarchism
I can not imagine the following situation: imagine that I have a very good friendship with the governor. I would abuse this situation and deal him a nice spot juanto the sea. and in spite of their claims to have the support of those who govern and allows me to self-determination! (it's just a mefafora)
In short, this is my feeling and vision of the facts. I have not offended anyone and I wish we we treated each other with more respect.
Best Regards
55 Marcos Alejandro
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For example the last one was suspended for corruption somewhere else but later appointed to a similar job in your De Facto Gov.
Did you read the link you posted?
He left his £120,000-a-year job in Swansea during a probe into work at his Gower home, admitting minor planning breaches but denying any misconduct.
However
Anti-corruption profile - Argentina
President Cristina Kirchner has not been very vocal concerning corruption, and anti-corruption policies have not been at the forefront of her administration's agenda.
http://www.trust.org/trustlaw/country-profiles/good-governance.dot?id=03878ca0-07fe-42c1-8f1a-2c8cdc202b23
@56
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you are saying that the Falklanders have NO rights and should be DISPOSED of !!!
They have as much Right to Self-Determinaton as argentinions have, and the Falklanders have chosen to be a British Overseas Territory!!
Long Live the Falklands.
@Marcus
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually the historical data universally supports the British claim, and categorically disproves each and every one of your government’s claims. For example
-the claim that Britain dropped it’s claim is disproven in the Treaty of Madrid which specifies neither Spain nor Britain drops their claim
-the claim that argentina owned the islands is disproven both by the fact that Spain did not give argentina any recognition whatsoever until 1836, and the records of Vernet (the settlement’s founder) giving outright and expressed recognition to the British ownership like in“”Vernet to Aberdeen, “Dispatch 24”, in PRO FO 6 499, p. 4. Also quoted (in Spanish) in Caillet-Bois 1952, pp. 305”
-the claim that vernets settlers were removed in 1833 is utterly disproven in Darwin’s diary (and a firsthand account of what happened) here darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?itemID=F10.2&viewtype=text&pageseq=326&keywords=brisbane
Page 271
-the claim that argentina never dropped its claim is demonstrably false, as shown in the 1850 convention of settlement where it stated it had no dispute with Britain, thus dropping any claim it may have wanted
Aside from this is argentina’s record of mass murder and land theft both towards your neighbours, and towards the native inhabitants, land which you still occupy to this day and which was conquered long after 1833. This in itself utterly delegitimizes argentina’s claim
The fact about self determination is that it is the strongest argument, as in itself it has (as shown in ICJ precedents) utter overriding importance compared to other legal factors. However in the case of the Falklands, it is merely the strongest argument out of a long list in support of Britain.
And argentina has yet to provide a single primary historical source to validate it’s claim, which is why it refuses to take the issue to any international court in favour of trying to bully the islanders
56 marcus
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wish you would treat us with more respect.
Your metaphor doesn't work.
You in your hypothetical corrupt country would only want self determination if you had a territory and a distinct population with the will to go it alone. And if your government was a sovereign nation with a democratic government, it would have the right to grant you independence, if you wanted it and the rest of the country agreed. It would also have the right to allow you to stay part of the main country, if you wanted that.
Be clear about this. The UK are the administering power of the Falkland Islands. They have the right to do with the Falklands as they wish. As they could dispose of any part of their territory, if the people of the UK and the territory in question agreed.
However, we don't want any change. The UK doesn't want any change.
The only ones who want change are you, and you are not the administering power.
If we wanted independence, the UK would grant it.
However, if the UK decided to hand us over to Argentina without our consent, we would declare independence, and we would get it, and be recognised by the UN.
No-one is going to allow us to be subjugated by you. You have no hope.
55 Marcos Alejandro
None of that has anything to do with you, sorry.
60 Monty69 Thank God.
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only my half-written comment appeared earlier..................
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British government is an arse.
Stop this war of words – silence is golden, let process and international legal precedents win this war of words – simple – stirring the pot and answering the piffle from the likes of the Kirchners and Timerman is a futile exercise.
These people have no credibility whatsoever.
They are about to kill democracy in Argentina – just watch what happens when their economic mismanagement unravels and their lies come home to roost – poor Argentines – I love them!
Let the ‘solid’ government and peoples of the Falklands, that does include some Argentines and many others not ‘supplanted’ by Britain, so not totally ‘English’ as the Kirchlies would have you believe, do the talking for themselves.
Mrs. Thatcher called the dictatorship that ordered the invasion of the Island a tin-pot dictatorship.
Argentina since then, has suffered tin-pot democracy – every Argentine will tell you this privately – apart from those who are taken in by Cristina Kirchner’s corrupt government.
Britain and its allies should take a stand against the corrupt government of Argentina who fabricate everything from their daily communiqués to the press (who are not taken in) to their economic data, which is laughable. Kick these buggers out of the ‘Gs’, show them up for what they are – liars and cheats – that’s the government not Argentines in general.
How can you give a well managed Island that makes a profit and provide quality of life to a country (government) that steals public funds during good times and then steals personal savings from their people when times get hard – wake up Argentina – nobody trusts your governments – who were/ are a hotbed of deceit and corruption.
The restrictions or economic blockade being imposed by South America on a people with a right to self-determination, not all British, is illegal - full stop. This must be challenged subject to international laws - on many levels.
nice post .
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Swale,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You failed to understand The Argentinian/Latin mentality.
If you wish to fully understand it, Come to Buenos Aires rent a car and drive around. That is all you have to do.
You will quickly relaize that the Argentinian driver is the sole owner of the road, (and the islands as well) and that no else has the right to exist there. Gottcha?
Wangito
you must have lots of roads then,
Jan 23rd, 2012 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i did not know their was argentine drivers owning all the roads in the falklands.
Madame President, welcome back, we wish you no ill will. We hope that you continue the hard work to define your ‘model’. This year, your farming community, who despise your government, will again suffer drought. No doubt, the already crumbling beef & grain industries will have more nails thrust into their coffins by both government policy and weather. Poor trading receipts will uncover your lies (too many to list) and your economy will unravel to demonstrate that Argentina needs to get its house in order - AGAIN. Another tin-pot democracy, the scourge of the Argentine people since 1983, will once again start the process of ‘taking their people to the cleaners’. You have rushed through legislation when Argentina’s eyes were closed (December) that will enable you to use ‘terrorism’, as defined by you, a corrupt and motley crew, to muzzle dissenters. Other cleverly planned legislation, supposedly to open up your media will combine with recent draconian legislation to close down the FREE press and anyone else who might antagonise you. As you take more and more power away from your institutions and people, and centralise your power base, the courts will fall under your wicked spell and a rush of legal decisions (new for Argentina) will cement your hold on power. A new Parliamentary system will steal ‘Putins’ thunder – president Kirchner and ‘prime minister’ Kirchner we presume – in reality, that’s what you have already.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0A ‘chav-anista’ in white head scarf and palest blue – but no sun.
Please, continue to lie and cheat, and demonstrate that you are unfit to govern the Argentine.
Because the world will know you are unfit to govern a small island that you now intimidate and blockade.
demonstrate that Argentina needs to get its house in order - AGAIN. Another tin-pot democracy, the scourge of the Argentine people since 1983, will once again start the process of ‘taking their people to the cleaners’. You have rushed through legislation when Argentina’s eyes were closed
I have the solution: we Argentines can change Argentina for the Falklands/Malvinas! If Great Britain accepts, then the Kelpers will not fear us Argentines. AND we will get a far better administration. If so, they perhaps will even want to be Argentine citizens! Because we Argentines will became Britons!.
Jan 24th, 2012 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking seriously we must try to negotiate sincerely before the dark oil ages start.
But, Luis V, there is nothing to negotiate!
Jan 24th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You want what we have & we are not going to give it to you.
You have nothing that we want.
So what can we possibly“negotiate”?♥
from the likes of the Kirchners and Timerman is a futile exercise.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 01:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0These people have no credibility whatsoever.
They are about to kill democracy in Argentina – just watch what happens when their economic mismanagement unravels and their lies come home to roost – poor Argentines – I love them!
bigron: AHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!
uk is FINISHED:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyeb9Uv8VOE
UK on the verge of Bankruptcy !!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pyeb9Uv8VOE
uk forign debt: 9 trillion pound!
Unemployment:2.68 million....
Nice country,guys.And Advise: Learn chinese a leave uk!
The Argentine government is having a hard time understanding why the natives of the Falkland Islands don't want to be governed by a mob of ungovernable sociopaths.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0No news there.
The Argentine government, like the malvinistas are a shower of dipsticks.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 06:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seriosly now, would you let a fool like timerman even do your gardening?
Or could you trust a nincompoop like arguello to do your shopping for you?
l wouldn't trust either of them to even sweep the front path.
lncompetents All!
Malvinero1 - I know, what a mess the world is in! Thank you, you help make my point. Remember, GB is a country that rises from its ashes like the Phoenix. Why, good government and a clever educated people who never give up. You too have clever educated people, but you do not have good government or our get up and go - I have lived in and around the Argentine for 30 years. I am married to an Argentine. Let's not make matters any worse. My point and I am sure you will agree, unless you have wandered around Argentina with your mind closed. You cannot trust the buggers who govern you - can you? You are a corrupt society from the President down - correct? At least one can trust our government (mas o menos) and institutions (the wonderful civil service). The information we get from government does tend to be honest, even if it’s indeed bad news. You poor fellows live with lies and deceit and institutional pilfering. Please do not wish this on the poor kelpers – come back when you have your house in order.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain is not great in nothing...its democracy, its politicians, its culture, its monarchy that talks to plants, its interpretation of human rights, its people are not better than anyone else in this world. they want to sell us that propaganda, i dont buy it.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 073 malen
Jan 25th, 2012 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's completely up to you. I can see why you might think that.
Argentina quite often tries to sell us similar propaganda, about their education, democracy, weather, women etc etc.
I have no interest in that at all. You're country can be whatever it wants and good luck to you. It's no concern of mine.
I suggest you cultivate a similar attitude to Britain. No-one is trying to sell you any propaganda. Your unhealthy obsession with Britain is the product of your own fevered paranoia and an insistence on living in the past. Get over it and move on. Have some ideas of your own instead of wasting so much effort attacking other peoples.
Your opinnion its up to you.
Jan 25th, 2012 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im not attacking other peoples, its an answer to post 72, not to you playing the poor victim.
Im saying you and your government and culture and etc are the same to anyone else. read well and try to use your head from time to time.
Neither Im interested in your culture. yes in that of south america.
very interested in that and in the way hegemonic countries come accros here 14.000 km away without any right.
75 malen
Jan 25th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Playing the poor victim'??? In what way? Explain.
You spend an awful lot of time criticising and insulting Britain for someone who isn't interested.
That's it really. I don't care whether you do or not, but I think it's a waste of your time and effort. No-one here or in Britain is interested in imposing our culture or anything else on south america.
We do however come from a culture that celebrates diversity. We would like to learn about SA, and actually, a lot of South Americans would like to learn more about us, whatever you may think about that.
75 malen
Jan 25th, 2012 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For an intelligent man, are you are not very clever are you,
And what’s wrong with speaking to plants,
Are they not living things?
Do you not talk to your [cat][dog][gold fish][budgie][ect ect .
.
bigron: point and I am sure you will agree, unless you have wandered around Argentina with your mind closed. You cannot trust the buggers who govern you - can you? You are a corrupt society from the President down - correct? At least one can trust our government (mas o menos) and institutions (the wonderful civil service)
Jan 27th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let'see...All Argentines are corrupted,rigth?
Strange that when I deal with Argentines,the “substrate” of the society is good.
THERE IS NO QUESTION IN MY MIND about IT!
And for somebody like me,who has lived quite a bit of years outside and know other cultures,I would say Argentinos came quite well.
Democracy.....The rule by the people....That is the reason many of us want to change the constitution to a Participative Democracy.....and We can get that...because our substrate,as a people ARE GOOD,compared with the rest.......
No,any time I will choose Argentina,with Argentinos......and I can go to a number of countries..The politician in the USA are very corrupt..they have to change the system..can they,with their political illiteracy???Or may be the system is so solidify that they will have to destroy it???
So monty:I suggest you cultivate a similar attitude to Britain. No-one is trying to sell you any propaganda. Your unhealthy obsession with Britain is the product of your own fevered paranoia and an insistence on living in the past. Get over it and move on. Have some ideas of your own instead of wasting so much effort attacking other peoples.
Really monty?/
Do you knmow why uk has a base in MAlvinas????
It5 is because to protect you???
No and we Argentines DO NOT CARE about uk!
It is the other way around..We were in AMlvinas and they ousted our people....
Argentina will dislike the brits anytime...You know why?/ BECAUSE THEY bother us....
You do nto want to negotiate with Argentina..Fine...Just tell uk to lEAVE ARGENTINA alone......uk COME down 14000 km...What was the problem then....in 1833,They always neglected our civilized request.
the smells back
Jan 27th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the kid utters .
78 Malvinero1
Jan 28th, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0For somebody who does n0t care you do an awful lot of crying and whining about it. And what's with the stuck keyboard again? OR do you think it is funny?
Do you know what I think is funny: YOU!
for you Monty
Jan 28th, 2012 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0“we have lot of diversity” ........only 25 argentinians live in the isles, the country that is more next to the isles, like it or not. And the exclusion of arg from the isles is in sharp contrast with the climate of complete civic freedom british community has prospered in Arg.
you may say arg have the doors open, even do it seems in facts they dont apply or there is a blockade to enter.
i dont attack people, from nowhere, dont hate english (i have cds of robby williams y todo) dont like them with arms and fortress in SAm.
here in Arg there is an actress that talks to toasts, for you briton. you can talk with whom you like...in fact its your life.
and for the one, kid i suppose is bothering with my computer, its so obvious because he writes in spanish but has not spanish keyboard or your school crapsssssssssss in spanish,or you dont learn spanish, go home poor guy.
81 malen
Jan 28th, 2012 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0thank you,
everybody can make comments, some good some not so good, witty ad funny, sometimes less so, we all have things to say,
but deliberate insults by malvino , and he's crassness is uncalled for,
not just me, he does it to everyone,
if one does not wish to be insulted personaly,,,then dont do it to others,
apart from that, we can all get back to debating and being obsternetly stubburn, thank you .
78 Malvinero1
Jan 28th, 2012 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you do care about the UK, otherwise, what are you doing here?
81 malen
You are mistaken.
The same immigration rules apply to anyone wanting to move to the Falkland Islands, British, Argentine, anyone.
You have to apply for a job, be appointed and get a work permit.
The only reason you might not get a work permit is if it can be shown that a resident Falkland Islander could do the job.
So if there are only 25 Argentines here, it's because either they don't apply for jobs or they don't get them. There is no way of changing that overnight.
You can't force companies to advertise in Argentina (and why would you), and you can't force Argentines to apply. In the current climate this would not be an easy place for Argentine families to live. That is not a lack of 'civic freedom', it's just because many people would hate you because of your government. If you want that to change, then be better neighbours.
And we are a diverse society, look at the census returns for 2006. The fact that there are not many Argentines here is irrelevant.
the current climate also should apply for the british living here in Arg, but as there is here civic freedom they can live here withouth problems, inspite of your government calling us colonialists and usurpating the isles for more than 179 years.colonist we ???, sth so strange and mad for south america. and nobody hates people coming from the isles and deciding to live here. james peck for ex.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and we have been very good neighbours, remember?? when you were citizens of second category of UK?? you came to our schools, hospitals, etc. and still are. you can enter to arg when you like without passport, with absolutely freedom.
Argentines - the British had a love affair with Argentina for many years. Love affairs are precarious things. But remember, parts of our culture (British) are your culture too, signposts of our forefathers investing significant amounts of capital - and leaving some of our own culture - opening sports clubs, schools, starting your football league, Polo and Chimichuri, are all part and parcel of our time in the Argentine. Indeed, San Martin came back to Argentina via Scotland and London with a lot of our money and British military advisors to ensure that Ferdinand VII would not get a foothold back in Americas. The British and their allies had a strategy, finish with the Frogs and then put the Spanish King back on the throne (penniless). Defeat his forces in the Americas so we might come back (without Spanish distraction) and make some money. This is a simplified version of events during the 1800s, around the time when we signed our first treaty (1824 I think). I know your history quite well; I know your people and country better. We are not so different. I do not like your government, I do not like our government - they distract us with this war of words. Alls not right here or there. However, we should be talking, we should be allies. Why are we here, we are happy here and at home in Argentina. However, we are still very British.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is still hope.... they aren't all brainwashed goons..
Jan 28th, 2012 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/28/falkland-islands-belong-argentina
. Alls not right here or there. However, we should be talking, we should be allies. Why are we here, we are happy here and at home in Argentina. However, we are still very British.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0FIne with me bigron....I did live in USA,Studied,Itlay,Uk....but Argentines are not soo bad.......believe me....
Just watch the shaky times ahead...others will do much worse...
84 malen
Jan 29th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't want to visit Argentina 'without a passport', we want to show our passports as anyone else would, and we don't want to have to be grateful to you. Nor should we. That is a colonialist attitude.
We don't need you to give us anything. We'd be happy to pay.
I'm very happy for anyone who leaves Britain or the Falkland Islands and has a nice life in Argentina. That is their choice.
My choice is to live in my home under the government of my choosing. You have no right to take that away.
As long as the Falklands are British, then that’s all that is needed,
Jan 29th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The government has stated that Argentina is in no position or have the power to do anything but talk,
All the bluster and threats aside, their is nothing they can do,
In reality greed gets you precisely nothing.
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