MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine Senate and House of Commons absorbed by Falklands’ debate
A new round of exchanges on the Falklands/Malvinas dispute took place on Thursday when an Argentine Senate Committee unanimously voted in favour of debating a declaration bill “strongly repudiating” British Prime Minister David Cameron’s “colonialist” statements, while a British minister accused Argentina of “sabre-rattling.” Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWonderful - the one thing that Argentina knows, it has got wrong.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Explains a lot that !
:-)
Looks like Cameron has got the Argentinian Government hooked and is reeling them in.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0How easy was that. It only took one mention of the word “colonialism”.
The more noise they make, the more likely it is that the self-determination message will crop up again and again in response.
I can't wait to see the developments ths year, especially when Prince William arrives in the Islands. The Argies are going to have steam coming out of their ears.
Looks like Cameron has got the Argentinian Government hooked and is reeling them in.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0How easy was that. It only took one mention of the word “colonialism”.
The more noise they make, the more likely it is that the self-determination message will crop up again and again in response.
I can't wait to see the developments ths year, especially when Prince William arrives in the Islands. The Argies are going to have steam coming out of their ears
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHA
uk IS LOOSING......
What a looser.
May be they should send loro to figth for uk!!
Interesting Mercopress has decided to utterly ignore the declasifying of internal government documents blasting the Falklands campaign
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rattenbach Report
http://ar.noticias.yahoo.com/informe-rattenbach-revela-pa%C3%ADs-preparado-guerra-121500260.html
hey - Castro has changed sides !!
Jan 27th, 2012 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0” ... He talked about the seriousness of the news coming from Spain, France, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, the United Kingdom, the Falkland (Malvinas) Islands and other nations of the planet.”
A Nation !!
http://www.solvision.co.cu/english/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2980:us-candidate-selection-an-idiotic-competition-fidel-castro-says-&catid=18:reflexiones-de-fidel&Itemid=146
:-)
”One thing that we all know is: The Malvinas belong to Argentina,”??
Jan 27th, 2012 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why is nobody pointing out that this statement is a repudiation of the UN and a refusal to negotiate?
It leaves no room at all for any kind of negotiation and therefore shows complete contempt for the UN, the Falkland Islanders and the UK.
I don't mind this at all, it saves us having to do anything, but what is their plan?
If they don't think there is anything to negotiate and they aren't planning to to invade, then what are they going to do?
Are they just going to carry on punishing us for the fun of it? It wouldn't surprise me- it seems to be a vote winner whether it gets them anywhere or not. Which I find quite frankly amazing. It's another world over there.
The specific words about “colonialism” that P M Cameron has said on last January 18th are: “What the Argentineans have been saying recently, I would argue, is actually far more like colonialism because these people want to remain British and the Argentinians want them to do something else.” He spoke before tue British Paliament answering a question from an opponent MP and only made a correlation of the Argentine position to the Islanders. What the whole Argentine government is doing is playing the role of victim. Is it necessary to remember the amount of offensive words said by all sides of the Argentine Government against British people and the British government? My President has called the British people “pirates” during 2010 just to give one example !! She use the same insult against British started to used by the inquisitor King Philip II of Spain and his courtiers when they couldn´t invade England in 1588. But PM Cameron did´nt said that Argentina is colonialist. He only made an analogy of the Argentine Government thinking about the Islanders rights. Sadly if I consider that the government of my country refuse to recognise the Islanders rights to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development according to Resolution 1514 (XV). Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples ) . What should I say about my government attitude?
Jan 27th, 2012 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0““The Honourable Senate declares that it ..............”
Jan 27th, 2012 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a silly thing to say. There isn't anyone or anything “honourable” anywhere in argieland!
”Earlier on Thursday the Argentine Government reiterated that they “will continue to raise the Malvinas issue across all forums.”
Except one. The International Court of Justice is one forum that argies don't dare go to.
Check out truth!
http://www.malvinasonline.com.ar/index.php/derecho-internacional/articulos/25-falklands-or-malvinas-the-background-to-the-dispute.html
http://www.malvinasonline.com.ar/index.php/derecho-internacional/articulos/25-falklands-or-malvinas-the-background-to-the-dispute.html
http://www.malvinasonline.com.ar/index.php/derecho-internacional/articulos/25-falklands-or-malvinas-the-background-to-the-dispute.html
Sounds like the usual Argie wishful thinking, obfuscation and dilusions.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No change there then.
3
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For Christ's sake its lose not loose and loser not looser.
As in :-
“Argentina was the loser in 1982 and will lose again if it ever tries to invade the Falkland Islands”.
Please try and educate yourself and repeat the above a minimum one thousand times a day. For maximum effect shout it out from your BA slum residence so all your fellow slum dwellers can hear.
I do normally enjoy your posts but please do try and get this right. You wouldn't want people thinking you were stupid or something, would you?
7 AGCOWES
Jan 27th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ask:
”What should I say about my government attitude?”
I say:
As a fellow Argentinean, I have a pair of ideas about what you “could say about our government attitude…..”
But………….., before devoting any more time on you…. Would you do me a favor and translate the following phrase from your above comment?:
”My President has called the British people “pirates” during 2010 just to give one example! She use the same insult against British started to used by the inquisitor King Philip II of Spain and his courtiers when they couldn’t invade England in 1588.”
Just a precautory measure you know….
Many people in here pretending to be something they aren’t………
Saludos
El Think
Think
Jan 27th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because AGCOWES is not in agreement with you, you query his nationality and- this is the best bit- you ask AGCOWES to translate some English into Spanish to prove Argentine nationality. That is such a funny and wrong stereotype; only spanish-as-a-first-language born people can speak and write Spanish.
You need to get a new hobby. You will get no satisfaction from this one.
LOL!
(12)
Jan 27th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see that you are quite desperate to come in contact/conflict with somebody.
Your previous comments and the fact that you already insulted me on another thread have firmly placed you on my Turnip list.
In general, I avoid any interaction with Turnips…. They are quite booooring.
Anyhow......
Too many Anglo Turnips have, in the past, tried to impersonate Argentines in these pages.
I have asked the same “favor” as I just asked Mr. AGCOVES to quite a few of them.
Not one Anglo passed that test ............ Not once……….
Obviously you know as little about linguistics as you know about the Malvinas Issue.
Have a nice life.
13
Jan 27th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You could at least address me by my tag.
I did no such thing as insult you on any thread. My what thin skin you have.
So are you saying that people actually come on Mercopress and pretend to be from the other camp? That is interesting. I will have to look out for that.
Any explanation on your president's stance that her and the rest of the Argentine leadership is not getting involved in dirty trick but at the same time the Argentine Illex fishery is open early to deplete it of its southbound and immature stock?
Will she still force the cessation of the LAN flight after claiming to be sweetness and light or would that be too hypocritical?
Is that how you play it on here Think? If you have no answers, claim to the insulted and picked on? Maybe that's the Argentine way. Your lady boss seems to think so.
Get a new hobby. Honestly, this won't end the way you Think it will.
The Argentines do seem easily upset but I assume it's their Latin nature. Also quite interesting that they now have a language test to confirm their nationality. Does seem a touch Herr Flick.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway to coin a phrase from the king of Spain that put Chavez in his place.
Think - “porque no te callas?”
Viva Las Falklands
Jan 27th, 2012 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see why they would be upset. The Falklands are securely British and are inhabited entirely by people who went there of their own free will (or their ancestors did). This makes the Argentines on Mercopress, who cry for their beloved Malvinas, losers.
Think
I realise now that you probably took being called a loser as an insult. Unfortunately for you though, you must look up at the score board some times and when you do you'll realise you are a loser.
Get a new hobby. This one will leave you a chronic loser.
Lady Think can not reply to you,he is on asleep right now becouse this is Sydney midnight time.~
Jan 27th, 2012 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklanders will decide there Own Future and that is to be a British Overseas Territory and NOT some Mythical Theme park called malvenass!!!
Jan 27th, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Falklands.
Down with argentine Colonialism.
Malvinero1
Jan 27th, 2012 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop acting like a stupid child, you don’t care either way,
Stop copying and grow up,
.
@11 “precautory”, Twinky? Which “one” of you is on shift at the moment? Are you with home “Security”, foreign “Security, home ”Intelligence“ or foreign ”Intelligence“. That would, of course, be military ”Intelligence“ rather than intelligent ”Intelligence“. You're getting a little ”lax“. Has your mistress recognised that she is getting nowhere and never will? Do you get ”rewards“? Does CFK personally shaft your butt? So that you can feel ”empowered“! Or screwed! Or are just ”on a promise“? Do you have a thing for fat, ugly cows?
Jan 27th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You see, all your dozy comments come out as ”I'm a smartass.“ Not as ”I have something intelligent and meaningful to say.“
It seems to me that you don't have the brain of a tu** never mind one of a turnip.
Whaddya say, Twinky-poo? Got the bottle to be honest? Sorry. I forgot you're an argie. ”Honest“ isn't a word you'd understand. How about ”truth“? No, you wouldn't recognise that either. How about ”facts not provided by your government or education system”? Could you manage that, dog's breath?
Master or protégée.
Jan 27th, 2012 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem with turnips is they do not talk
So they cannot insult as they cannot yet walk
But a test is a test, and you must be the best
But as they are not British they must do the test
For if you are British you are already the best.
My list or your list the dreaded black book
Behave your self or you will get hooked
To avoid getting in there may be a sour grape
But being a turnip You had a lucky escape,
.
( 21 ) %
Jan 27th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say :
Thornwalt Forest.....
I say :
Sydney Fish Market.....
I am very sorry about the pandemic that UK is going through. Enough literature that ( British never have read) has explained in detail where FOOTBALL is originated from. However they HAVE INSISTED FOR YEARS THAT THEY HAVE INVENTED !! Now they have a first minister that who said
Jan 27th, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0to the world that ARGENTINA IS COLONIALIST????
REALLY, REALLY, REALLY ???
WHERE DO YOU LIVE ?
Argentina may help you to learn FOOTBALL a little bit, so that we all can enjoy been in World Cup as participants . BUT, WE CANNOT EDUCATE YOU EVEN THOUGH OUR EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS FREE!
HOW MUCH DO YOU BRITISH PAY FOR EDUCATION ??
LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU READ ONE HISTORY BOOK. BY THE WAY, I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO READ IN OTHER LANGUAGE LIKE MOST OF THE CITIZENS OF THE WORLD
Malvinero1
Jan 27th, 2012 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop acting like a stupid child, you don’t care either way,
Stop copying and grow up,
Copying? What? Just tell uk to Grow UP,the empire times ARE OVER!!
the child with a copier for a brain
Jan 28th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0[der]
Briton,
Jan 28th, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you find that at one point in a ANY discussion that people do not answer you back, and you find yourself alone in your eager to express your anger toward others( that you believe are inferior to you), without any solid and intellectual comments, most likely it is because people has understood your self-definition as a specimen that it is about to extinct in our 21st century. Yes, you are getting old too.
I will try to help you by telling that it is not about losing or winning a war or conflict, but finding consents. Remember when you agree to send troops to Afghanistan to hunt for this guy with beard among the rocks ? Who won? NOBODY!! Now if you defining winning by the result, then take the look of all these lives that cost ONE person. I know you do not get it.
We are discussing weather Malvinas are or not Argentinian. If you look a globe map, you may be able to understand the distance between the tinny small islands and UK. I know it is hard but with practice you may get it. I wish you good luck
We are discussing a socio-political issue that may not have a correct answer, however you are far from that point. Trust me, very far. Solve your inferiority conflict first, then we can talk
the child with a copier for a brain
Jan 28th, 2012 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0[der]
Ho my God.The linnear mind 2 dimensional person does not get it...
You understood nothing chimpton!
Thanks #26,Not first...Is incredible the effort to make this chimp to get it through.only muscle,then you give him brits statistic,he “does not understand”
britton is not only a liar,but dumb as well!
Colonialism -maybe we should all bring it back ;-)
Jan 28th, 2012 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/01/28/argentinas-colonialism-v-british-colonialism/
Not to worry! With the approval of recent anti-piracy laws, Cameron will have to return the islands. ;)
Jan 28th, 2012 - 04:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm absorbed trying to find the Argentine House of Commons. I have been looking for two days I still can't located it.
Jan 28th, 2012 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spot on Tobias!!!
Jan 28th, 2012 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is such a biased rubbish online newspaper that it looks at EVERYTHING through the British eyeglass.
Next thing you know it, they will be referring to Cristina as a Prime Minister. *facepalm*
(28)
Jan 28th, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say :
Colonialism - maybe we should all bring it back......
I say :
If your answer is for freedom than I ask you now to support us in our efforts to keep the truth following, Though you aren't on the front lines
in this war, yet, our survival does indeed depend on you ! .......
26 you are not first
Jan 28th, 2012 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0and you are,
you no like my poem, or my reply to malveno,
your other crap has nothing to do with my posting,
malvino is a child that utters,
if you agree , good, if not we are not interested, your post has nothing to do with what i posted, are you a clone of his,
who are you, not malvino thats for sure, silly boy.
malvinoo
copier again
think I can answer your question in the 11th post perfectly becouse I thought my idea in the Spanish language fisrst which is my mother tongue ! And the sentence you read in English is bad translation into English from my idea in Spanish. So What I tried to express in my poor English language when I wrote ”My President has called the British people “pirates” during 2010 just to give one example! She use the same insult against British started to used by the inquisitor King Philip II of Spain and his courtiers when they couldn’t invade England in 1588.” Was my thinking in Spanish about when “Mi Presidenta llamó a los británicos ”piratas“ durante 2010 solo para dar un ejemplo! Usando el mismo insulto usado en contra de los británicos por el Rey ”inquisidor“ Felipe II de España y sus cortesanos en los años en que no pudo invadir Inglaterra en 1588”. So, Now I answer to you: which is your idea about our govenment attitude? I have a very clear idea about it and I can explain it if you want to read it. But I can tell you in advance that it is very closer to what PM Cameron spoke before the British Parliament on last Jan 18th...I am very sorry that as an Argentine I can´t think in same “tunning” with the polititians of my Country! And you ?
Jan 29th, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0We are all entitled to our opinion,
Jan 29th, 2012 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0and you are entiltled to yours.
(34) AGCOWES
Jan 29th, 2012 - 03:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well lad…………..
I have bad news for you...............
Your Spanish diction is as bad as your “suddenly worsened” English.
You'd fail a 5’th grade Spanish test.... But at least you didn’t write ”anos”
Or ”Los Malvinas”, as one of the most amusing previous impersonators used to :-)))))
I won’t be devoting any more time on you though………..
What a Turnip!
Mr. Think
Jan 29th, 2012 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure you can´t “devote” any more time “in me” ( using your words) mainly because you don´t have any more argue that the “official handbook” which maintains alive the “Argentine Malvinas” myth. I have only one doubt ! If you are part of the “Argentine governing elite” or part from the frustrated people that beleive in the myth based on a “feeling and conviction”. I will not do any test to you to know. It is not worth the trouble to know the difference.
(37) AGCOWES
Jan 29th, 2012 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You’re right matey….You’re not worth the trouble.
You’re a proven liar that, at post No. (7), tried to lie himself Argentinean.
You’re just another of those “Auto-critical Argentineans” that can’t write Spanish….
What a Turnip…………
14 The Falklands are British:
Jan 29th, 2012 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0He is right when he says people do pretend to be from the opposite camp. There are British posters who pretend to be Argentinians as well as Argentinians who pretend to be British. They are usually quite easy to spot.
When he says he avoids contact with people he calls turnips, this is roughly translated to not answering questions he finds difficult. You will see this often.
(37) AGCOWES
Jan 29th, 2012 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have done my homework………….
If you indeed are Alejandro Guillermo Cowes, as I now believe you are, then I owe you my unreserved and most sincere apology.
As a matter of fact, I agree with some of your opinions and causes. (Tibet & Falun Dafa for ex.)
My “beef” on the “Malvinas Issue” is 99.8% against the UK exploiting the resources of the South Atlantic/Antarctic in direct detriment of South-America. A totally inacceptable Neo-Colonial situation if ever it was one.
No elitism, no nationalism, no populism, no indoctrination here; …........
just unadulterated pragmatism.
The remaining 0.2% is irritation aggravation and exasperation over the insufferable British ethnocentrism and haughtiness…….
Ps:
But please tell me…: Why the heck did you write:
”Mi Presidenta llamó a los británicos ”piratas“ durante 2010 solo para dar un ejemplo!”
or
“en los años en que no pudo invadir Inglaterra en 1588”
The faults and errors should be more than obvious for you …..
Your Spanish diction MUST be much better than that Dr. Cowes!
Respetuosamente
El Think
Chubut, Argentina
“I have done my homework………….”
Jan 29th, 2012 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Newspeak for cyber stalking....... what a toad...
“A totally inacceptable Neo-Colonial situation if ever it was one.”
Jan 29th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should look that term up. You are wrong.
A totally inacceptable Neo-Colonial situation if ever it was one.”
Jan 29th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should look that term up. You are wrong.
Really?? Comming from the brits she is TOTALLY rigth.....
Just watch out the brits do not get burned...Playing with fire,can be dangerous...
Mr. Think
Jan 29th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I am A. G. Cowes and I tell you I can write about the Falklands / Malvinas cause defending the Islanders rights in English or in Spanish language. And I am not much care about my writing when I am writing in a “forum” I prefer be very careful never using rude personal words or phrases to others, only discussing ideas always. So If you want to discuss Ideas I would axplainyou how the “Argentine polititian elite ” is moving since 100 years ago ( in the first 50 years about 50 % , but after the war in a 95 %) with “the hate” to the English people and the British government. A hate that was introduced in the Aargentine political culture by the Hispanicism intelectual movement during the 2 first dacades of the XX century which is the father / mother of the “banal argentine nationalism” that have stablish the whole myth about “Malvinas Argentinas” and made possible for the first time in the entire Argentine History that a President name in public the British people with that sort of insult like “pirate” . As I told you the same insult that was used by King Philip II of Spain and his courtiers during the years when they lost their “Great Armada” thanks to the English Navy resistance. translation: El mismo insulto que usaba el Rey Felipe II y sus cortesanos en los años que perdieron la “gran Armada” gracias a la resistencia naval inglesa. I only want denmostrate you and other members of this forum that our President used in 2010 an old-fashioned offense to define British actions at the sea started to use by an authoritarian and fundamentalist King that represent more the former “Military Junta” ideals that hers. And this is more serious that the words said by PM Cameron before the British Parliament. Although PM Cameron didn´t offend us. He only made a true analogy of the “Argentine point of view” about the Malvinas / Falkland issue and the old colonial policy. Nevertheless he resume with the words “is actually far more like colonialism” .
Think
Jan 29th, 2012 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too many Anglo Turnips have, in the past, tried to impersonate Argentines in these pages.
I have asked the same “favor” as I just asked Mr. AGCOVES to quite a few of them.
Not one Anglo passed that test ............ Not once……….
It seems you got it wrong with AG Cowes the lawyer.
Mr Cowes
Jan 29th, 2012 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s OK that you don’t care “about your writing in a forum” but, when politely asked to translate something to Spanish to identify yourself as an Argie, you could at least had made a little effort :-(
But let it rest……………
By your names and surname I do infer that you are an Argentinean of British lineage.
I am an Argie of northern European descent, very much influenced during my early years by the same disregard/contempt and sometimes even hate for the Spanish/Italian/Argentinean people and culture as you.
But I evolved….................
As has our country, Argentina during the last nine years…
Guided by the ideas of a Chilean/Argentinean Patagon of Swiss/Croatian extract called Nestor.
So please don’t try that old threshed “ Hispanic Mentality” truism with me.
And yes, our President calls the British government “Pirates” because that’s exactly how they are acting, as I already mentioned in my post No. (40)
Have a pleasant Sunday
El Think
To “the Falklands are British”
Jan 29th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I steem so much your defense to my right to freely express my ideas ( I referring mainly to your post Nr. 12) but I wanted to clarify that I am not an “Anglo” neither in its “Argentine” or “turnipp” version . I am only an Argentine citizen with four generations of ancestors living in Argentina and with that background I believe I have the absolut right to say that if my government really has honest interests for the benefits of the individuals that compose Argentina and does not have the unrealistic purpose to reach geostrategic objectives to position the Country in a better rank of regional leadership, would face the Malvinas/Falklands situation of another form. But also as a global citizen who true believe in the international law of the human rights I consider that the Falkland Islanders have right to decide their own future and I am very ashamed that the “Political-cultural-Scientific Argentine elite” deny that right. And also I am ashamed that by the brain washing technique applied during almost 70 years my fellow Argentines consider that to be aa “accurate Argentine” it is necessary to support the the “Argentine Malvinas” myth.
a global citizen who true believe in the international law of the human rights I consider that the Falkland Islanders have right to decide their own future and I am very ashamed that the “Political-cultural-Scientific Argentine elite” deny that right. And also I am ashamed that by the brain washing technique applied during almost 70 years my fellow Argentines consider that to be aa “accurate Argentine” it is necessary to support the the “Argentine Malvinas” myth.
Jan 29th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good for your opininion...
I am proud the way the ARGENTINE government is dealing with the Malvinas issue.....BTW noo body has brainwashed me......
Yours is a minority opinion...In the british isles,there are many brits that consider outrageous the way the brit government is dealing with Argentina..1000 man military base,nuclear submarine..Yes We Argentine deserve the resp[ect from that rogue,pirat nation,that attacked us in 1833,1840..treaty of Commerce and friendship...what friendship..The brits screw it ..well it is time to screw them...
to Mr. Think
Jan 29th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok if You and the president considers that the British are “pirates” both have all the right to say it. But I have also the right to remember you about the origin of that sort of insult which comes from a Criminal against humanity ( King Philip ) of whom ideas were much more nearest to the obscurantism ideal that ruled our country during the last dictatorship, than the Democratic ideas than rules today our Country. And also that integrist obscurantism and religious fundamentalism has done much more damage to to latin-America than British Imperialism in the past. I also add remembering you that British privateers ( not pirates like the Spanish used to say in the past) helped Argentina to free itself from the Spanish oppression during the independence wars. The “struggle for the Falklands” was initiated in our Country by the “banal nationalists” whom before they used to remake the “virtual nation” composed by the territories of the Rio de la Plata ´s Viceroyalty . One thing more. My ideas does ´nt come from my ancestors or my “lineage” My ideas are completely mine. And I hope also like you and President ideas. Because that, I am warning you about where come from some insults you and the President are using to describe British action in South America . Nevertheless the question is: If our Senate is refusing some words used by PM Cameron considered an insult by our Government, why our President have the right to insult British people in public like she did in 2010? http://www.treslineas.com.ar/ejercicios-malvinas-cristina-llamo-piratas-britanicos-n-319354.html
Malvinero:
Your statement to answer me, sadly confirm my assertion, because you have been repited the entire official History that we learned in the primary and secondary school
(49) Dr. Cowes
Jan 29th, 2012 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you have all the right and opportunity to “remember me about”, “dissent with me” and freely convey your ideas, irrespective if they are completely yours, came from your ancestors or were bought in a Cambalache.
As a matter of fact, your participationin this forum, together with Uki Goni’s excellent article, published yesterday in one of Earth’s best English newspapers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/falklands ) are the best proof of the evolution our Country, Argentina, has experienced during the last many years.
Your statement to answer me, sadly confirm my assertion, because you have been repited the entire official History that we learned in the primary and secondary school
Jan 29th, 2012 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really Cowes? How can I have been influenced by the High school system,when half of my life,and even postgraduate studies are OUTSIDE ARGENTINA???Mind you,until recently I was not aware of the respective historical/legal claims of each part.But by reading differents forum,books,etc I realize The Argentine position very well and I agree it.Now what do you prefer..That Argentina treatens malvinas and the brits with a militry buildup,and may be harrased the Malvinas,from 1833 on with pirates raiders,military people sent to malvinas,etc or the very civilized aproach of inviting them for arbitration,regular protest?/ Did any of them worked out?/ No because uk was stronger..now the scale are balancing..so which approach should Argentina takes???
This is a perfectly legal..If not why they do not sue Argentina for the actions?/ Is the UNGA,C-24 comdenming Argentina for doing that? Show me a resolution that says so!!
Is uk compliying with UNGA res,UNASUR,OAS,MERCOSUR?? NO!!!
So why do you complain??/ The law is on Argentina side..And the Europeans the yansk told them,too SIT and Negotiate>>>>
Just learn and read....ARGENTINA IS DOING FINE>>>
AGCOWES
Jan 29th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is interesting to read your contributions. I hadn't considered you were anything other than an Argentine, and of course of European roots (at least on one side). Like the majority (or maybe all) of the Argentines on Mercopress, you are not a native of the land.
I also, like all Falkland Islanders, am of international roots (in my case English and Scottish) but several generations ago. I actually don't even know how many but I suspect it's about 4 generations, like yourself.
I am delighted to read that you believe Falkland Islanders have the right to self-determination. I find it bemusing that the “best” argument that the majority of Argentines on here use, for their right to the Malvinas, goes back to events of almost 180 years ago.
Like you, I also consider myself a global citizen and I strongly believe in international law. But of course we all call somewhere home.
I am not sure whether you were trying to tell me that the Argentine government would have good intentions for the welfare of Falkland Islanders or not. I think you were saying their intentions are honourable but I am not sure. However I am sure you will understand if I tell you that nobody on the islands would trust your president and her team to look after our best interests.
Some members of your government even try to convince the world that we are held captive by the British military garrison. I think everybody really knows that that idea is nonsense. Everybody is in the islands of their own free will and are free to come and go as they please. I like many many islanders travel the world on a very regular basis. In fact, right now I am in the UK and this year I will be visiting 9 countries on 5 continents. Last year I visited 11 countries on 4 continents. To try to persuade anyone that we are captive on the islands is just the stuff of fantasy.
I have asked those who call us pirates to explain their reasoning but none of them answer me.
It is most deplorable when anyone suggests that a country is exploiting the recourses of others,
Jan 29th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When that country itself wishes to exploit those same resources, for them selves,
But if anyone has a right to use the resources, then it should be those that live in the islands, called the Falklands, for only they have the given right to explore and use their own resources.
Just as any and every other country has a right to use their own resources
To the benefit or her own people,
.
To THE FALKLANDS ARE BRITISH
Jan 29th, 2012 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To clarify your doubt, I said: “IF my government really has honest interests for the benefits of the individuals that compose Argentina......WOULD face the Malvinas/Falklands situation OF ANOTHER FORM ” I became convinced that my Country´s stablishment only have the unrealistic purpose to reach geostrategic objectives to position the Country in a better rank of regional leadership. The other form would be by example: 1) Stop celebrate the invasion day on APRIL 2 2) remove from the national toponymy the name given to the islands’ Capital by a murderer dictator 3) Recognition to the islanders their rights and desires and not only “their interests”. After that knock the door and start to talk about the future.....
To the MALVINERO
The International law it is very clear the only thing that all those multilateral organiztions support is that the parts in the conflict must find a solution ”bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas)” ( UN RESOLUTION 2065) I know perfectly that Argentina makes a diference between “interest” and “wishes” but this difference is not consistent because under the modern rules of the international humanitarian rights is imposible care the rights of the individuals without ask which they think about which their interest are. All other questions are nonsense. Argentina does´nt want recognise Islanders rights so it is not trying to negotiate considering the international human law.
Mr. Think
Many thanks for the compliments. A good end after the very bad beggining. By the way the article is very good!! But sadly I do not believe that any Argentine newspaper of Spanish language would publish an article like this.May be only Clarin, but only because the great hate they feel against the Argentinian Chancellor .
1) Stop celebrate the invasion day on APRIL 2 2) [why]
Jan 29th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 02) ) remove from the national toponymy the name given to the islands’ Capital by a murderer dictator [why]
3) Recognition to the islanders their rights and desires and not only “their interests”. After that knock the door and start to talk about the future.....[why]
1, Argentina should remove from their constitution the offending article on the Falklands.
2, in a civilise world, you cannot demand they remove the name of their capitol, just because you don’t like it .
3, you don’t, threaten abuse intimidate blockade and tell abhorrent liars, then ask them to talk
Abt their future.
Argentina has no rights to the Falklands legal or moral, the only reason you are now interested in the Falklands is two fold.
1, internal problems at home.
2, the oil that has been discovered.
Would it not be better for all concern, if Argentina just gave up its false claim and left the islander to live in peace, then the two countries can move on.
(54) Dr. Cowes
Jan 29th, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “very bad beginning” you are referring to was by and large caused by your casual, even careless use of the Spanish language syntax. :-)))
Besides………….
Uki Goñi, the author of the Guardian article is an American journalist, nationalized Argentine, living in our Country since 1975 and an assiduous contributor of Pagina12.
It wouldn’t surprise me if this article appeared on that newspaper soon….
Furthermore……
The key point in the whole Malvinas issue is that Self-Determination does not apply to the Settlers/Squatters living on the Islands because they do not, by any means, constitute “A People” (Un Pueblo).
They are an implanted British population, 100% aligned with and serving the UK geopolitical interests and ambition in the South Atlantic/Antarctic.
To finish………..
My evaluation is that the firm political stand of our current government over the “Malvinas Issue” is hastily transforming it from a question of Argentinean National interest into one of Regional/Continental interest.
And this worries the Brits quite a bit more than they would care to admit.
Briton
Jan 29th, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) I think Argentina must stop to celebrate April 2 because the invasion has been a crime against Islannders and apologize for that asheme action not celebrate.
2) We must remove from our national toponymy the name given to the islands’ Capital by a murderer dictator first of all because we signed in the AGREEMENT of 14th JULY 1999, point IV, section 2 that says The Argentine Government is prepared to look at the question of toponomy in the Falkland Islands. ...But most important because the name PUERTO ARGENTINO given by the dictator Galtieri to de Islands offend not only the Islanders, but also the Argentines. I think the only people to give a name to the Islands Capital are the Islanders.
3) Recognition to the islanders their rights and desires and not only “their interests”. Is the legal way to arrive to the recognition of the self determination rights to the Falklnders
4) Then Knock the door? Because a problem exits and we must solve it and I think Argentina is the country that sould give the first step in that way
About your points.
1) I am completly agree with you that we must remove from our Constitution the article about Falklands Islans It is a fascist article.
2) In civilized world a constitutional government can remove the name of city given by a criminal dictator.
3) Of course I am agree with you about the pretended “blockade” if this happened would be a Crime against humanity commited by the Argentine authorritys according the ROME STATUTE OF THE I C C, article 7 , section 1 ( h ) and section 2 ( g )
I am also agree that Argentina has no rights to the Falklands legal or moral. I think I axplained in other posts about creation of the “malvinas Argentinas myth”
I also think that in the long term Argentina should give up its claim for the Argentine political health, but for the moment to start I would be very happy if my country remove the Malvinas/Falklands question of the peak of the priorities of the Argentine foreign policy .
Your 'key point' is rather more 'wishful thinking' than key Think!
Jan 30th, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing to suggest that they are NOT a peoples. No statement from the UN defining the term. No restriction placed on the Charter's language. Nothing at all.
Argentina would like it to be so ...... but Argentina fools no one!
Nothing to suggest that they are NOT a peoples. No statement from the UN defining the term. No restriction placed on the Charter's language. Nothing at all.
Jan 30th, 2012 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina would like it to be so ...... but Argentina fools no one!
Really?? uk Does NOT FOOLS me and Argentina....So do not play the stupid Self determination card.
uk NEVER cared that..Just look,and I repeat for the 100th time,at Chagos and HK..No Selfdetermination...
also think that in the long term Argentina should give up its claim for the Argentine political health, but for the moment to start I would be very happy if my country remove the Malvinas/Falklands question of the peak of the priorities of the Argentine foreign policy .
Well cowes,that it is your opinion...The issue is growing and more and more Argentines,see the truth..uk IS AN IMPERILAIST country..uk is goind down like lordton...
Ahahah
uk is FINISHED.....Poor deluded fools....Soo incompetents...
Mr. Think
Jan 30th, 2012 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Concerning your “key point” and your argument to deny the self determination right” to to freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development according to Resolution 1514 (XV). ( Declaration on the granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples ) it is enormously weak . How can you seriosly say that the Falkland Islanders are not a People? The argue about the “implanted British population” can´t resist the anlysis of an open mind. “implanted” ? How UK implanted a population from five to eight gerations living in the Islands? That is only part of the official Argentin myth abaut the usurpation. I is necesary to remind you that more than 60 % of the Argentines decends from europeans? The Falklands were not inhabited by original people they were inhabited And when the British came to reaffirm their sovereignty accordin the 1771 treaty with the Spanish Kingdom they didn ´t force away the population of 29 people. The current population it is the product of a peaceful inmigration as happened mostly in our Country Argentina. The difference it is that thay speak English, they also have been ruled by Britain since 1833 and the authentic “key point” it is that they want to remain under British rule and it is not like cases as Chipre or Uganda or Kenya as a very bad informed journalist wrote in a British newspaper according an article published in LA NACION today! Brainless journalist thera are in every part of the world! To conclude your first statment came from the times of the Argentine Fascist / military diplomatic service during the sixties /seventies They invented that sort of nonsense to defend the difference between “interest” and “wishes” in the 2065 un resolution. And your second statment I am very sorry but it is to soon to evaluate the results of the current Argentine agressive policy. To me by now sounds like “we are wining” wrote by REVISTA GENTE during the 1982 war...
Marv - you sound more and more like MoreCrap every day ;-)
Jan 30th, 2012 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Visited the British Empire site lately lol
CORRECTION TO POST 60 when I said : The Falklands were not inhabited by original people they were...........I wanted said: Uninhabited!
Jan 30th, 2012 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0A last answer to MALVINERO: All the rhetoric about the “British Imperialism” is it old fashioned“ . The ”Empire“ did not exist any more since 50 years ago at least! Our foreign Service and polititians remained in the twenties / thirties revisionist Historian discourse . The situation know after the South Athlantic War it is very different and will be much more different in the coming years and our Political elite remain talking with the handbook of the 1st. half of the XX century ..... When you say ”uk is goind down“ again like a said in the last sentence of my post Nr.60, sounds like ”We are wining” ( I think you know who won the war in 1982? )
56 Think
Jan 30th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And this worries the Brits quite a bit more than they would care to admit.”
Do you really, really, believe this Snr. Think? Because if you do then your are doubly mistaken and do not understand the British resolve to stop the Falklands (there are no Malvinas) from being stolen from the inhabitants who are the ONLY people who will decide what will happen. NOT ARGENTINA, NOT EVER.
Do you now understand Sr. Think?
handbook of the 1st. half of the XX century ..... When you say ”uk is goind down“ again like a said in the last sentence of my post Nr.60, sounds like ”We are wining” ( I think you know who won the war in 1982?
Jan 30th, 2012 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The war? There was NO DECLARED war.The brits won a battle..and lost the WAR!!
Now the Argentines hates the brits....
They are so incompetent,that they should care about the 3 millions brits unemployed and the 9 trillion foreign debt....
To me is such an stupid country uk...
Suit yourself cowes,but you are wrong..The young people realize what the brits are after....Jsut read the Liar blog of lordtonto and you will realize what they are...
MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!!!
I am sorry MALVINERO that the only argument you can telling me is that I am wrong and insults against British People and British Government and the phrase “MALVINAS ARGENTINAS”.
Jan 30th, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That phrase sounds like a cult? isn´t it? I am not deffending the British position on the conflict. So I don ´t care Statistics about problems in UK . I am enogh concerned the serious problems of my Country Argentina, as the reinforcement of a sustainable economic development, the security, the improvement of the education and the health service, all subjects where the faults are enormous.
But caming back about Falklands: First of all I think the claim of that piece of land inhabited by people which do not want to be Argentine it is a great mistake of my Country and secondly I will defend always the Islanders human right to freely decide their government ( Self determination according the international law of the human rights) I am verry sorry that I can ´t agree with you...
The principle of self-determination does not apply to the Question of the Malvinas Islands.
Jan 30th, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Is ruled out then the possibility of applying the principle of self determination, as its exercise by the Islanders would cause the “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter. ”In the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity taking into account the interests and NOT the wishes of the people of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37 / 9), 1983 (38/12) , 1984 (39 / 6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and reaffirm the invitation made in resolution 2065 (XX) Parties (Argentina and the United Kingdom) ”to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Ad Hoc Committee on the Situation of Colonial Countries and Peoples, to find a peaceful solution to the problem, taking due account of the provisions and objectives of the UN Charter and Resolution 1514 (XV), as well as the interests of the population of the Malvinas Islands. Since 2004 the Argentine government to the Malvinas Islands Question to appear on the permanent agenda and in the paper by the Bureau of the General Assembly.
Raul, you can copy paste that all you like. Will never change the facts.
Jan 30th, 2012 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Human rights are applicable to all humans. Bar none. Nada, zilch, non.
- There is no getting around this fact(Read: Fact).
Self Determination is a human right - Fact.
All humans are entitled to Self Determination - Fact.
You also, knowingly repeat the same crap every time. That we “Broke” Argentina's territorial integrity in 1833 and thus breached the UN charter.
Any idiot can tell you three things:
- No UN in 1833.
- Can't break a law that isn't created.
- Laws aren't retroactive.
“taking into account the interests and NOT the wishes ”
Same thing, You can't claim to represent the interests of someone without representing there wishes. This is a failure of an argument.
ZETHE : Yes In the Fascist / Militar Argentine thinking of the sixties theyreally true beleive they could represent theinterest of the people whithout ask which are their wishes... But all those ideas are old-fashioned And noow we have all that criminal minds out of the Argentine politics, but sadly their ideas still are between us....It is a great contradiction that just the government that pretend be a leader of the Human Rights Law in our Country does´nt find new modern arguments according to the international law to solve the conflict. You are completly exact about Human rights are applicable to all humans, but inclusive before the UN CHARTER was signed because the human rights exists before the written law that is the concept. What is comoletly wrong it is RAUL assertion about the British in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return. The population of 29 people have been invited to stay in the islands until their death . The other assertion about that self determination would “violate the territorial integrity of Argentina” is also false .
Jan 30th, 2012 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul
you have been repeated two assertions that I listen since my school years and then you copied part of some UN RESOLUTIONS. Do you have some new idea from your own mind ? Why don´t you start to read and read again the 2065 UN RESOLUTION and then you go to the 1514 and also to the UN CHARTER ( CHAPTER XII: INTERNATIONAL TRUSTEESHIP SYSTEM ), and then you read the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) specially article 1 ( I know that Argentine made a reservation about that article for the Islands territory , but I think that it is against the International Law....)
(65) Dr Cowes
Jan 30th, 2012 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Needles to say, I differ with your interpretation of Self-Determination as an individual human right.
It is not.
Needles to say, I differ with your interpretation about the settlers of Malvinas constituting a “People”
They do not.
My hope is that the “Malvinas Issue” will be, in the mediate future, resolved following one of to possible models:
The Åland Islands or Saint-Pierre et Miquelon; the first one being my personal favorite.
PS:
I “Think” your historical allusions are quite misplaced……….
Using words and concepts uttered by some monsters of the past does not mean that we share anything with them.
As far as I know L. F. Galtieri did breath air…..
Should I stop breathing because of it?
Should you?
Using words and concepts uttered by some monsters of the past does not mean that we share anything with them
Jan 30th, 2012 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[][sadly the thing you do share with them, but do not wish to, is the fact, that you both want the same thing,
But whether you [today] wish to do it the same way, is another point,
It does not matter who did what in 1833, you all know [fact] that the islands have been British for over 150 years, they have been administrated by Britain for over 150 years, and the people on those islands who freely voted to remain British, should be allowed that right, and to live in peace without threats or abuse,
No one is going to remove that right, there are today, countries that are less than 150 years old, and they freely run themselves, are they to worry, that someone then may claim them, as theirs ? .
[If the shoe was on the other foot,, ,you tell me, if Argentina would be saying the same .]
.
“I differ with your interpretation of Self-Determination as an individual human right.”
Jan 30th, 2012 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not an interpretation, It is a fact. Two of the three treaties that make the International Bill of Human Rights both have Self Determination written into them.
Unless you would like to prove to us that the rights written into two thirds of the International Bill of Human Rights somehow do not constitute as Human Rights?
You can continue to ignore this as much as you like. But the evidence is there on the internet.
“settlers of Malvinas constituting a “People”
They do not.”
Until you can find a UN definition of the word “Peoples”(There is none). This is only your opinion.
Or perhaps Argentina thinks that it does not apply to them,
Jan 30th, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did Argentina signed this, or did Argentina opt out,
If you opted out, then you may not accept the ruling,
But if Argentina signed it, then you have no choice but to except it .
.
Mr. Think You can differ from Human rights vision but there is only one interpretation. the humanitary law of the human rights is applied erga omnes nevertheless their creed, origin, race wherever they are living and whitout take in account how many are in the same situation . And about your limit concept of “people” ( that you don´t sostain with any argument ) I can help you with the transcription with the eight definitions from de dictionary n. pl. people
Jan 30th, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers: People were dancing in the street. I met all sorts of people.2. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
3. pl. peo·ples A body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life.4. Persons with regard to their residence, class, profession, or group: city people.5. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the: “those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes” (Thomas Jefferson).6. The citizens of a political unit, such as a nation or state; the electorate. Used with the.7. Persons subordinate to or loyal to a ruler, superior, or employer: The queen showed great compassion for her people.8. Family, relatives, or ancestors.
So I can´t find any limit that show me I should´nt consider people to the falklanders . Also I tell you that GALTIERI it is the “last orejon del tarro” between the bad guys of the past, before him I can mention l Jose Maria Ruda; Hector Ricardo Garcia; Admiral Massera ( the real brain instigator of the 1982 war; Arauz Castex; of caurse how can I forget Anaya and Costa Mendez. Also the “finado” Senador Menem. Galtieri is the last in the list. But it is not question of names I can show you that all the argentines that want the “Malvinas Argentinas” they only repeat the arguments that all that bad guys said in the past. There is not a new single idea!
AGCOWES
Jan 30th, 2012 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again I thank you for attempting to clarify the self determination concept. I think you're wasting your breath on these Malvinistas but it's entertaining seeing them get the message from a well respected member of their own community.
think
Jan 31st, 2012 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Another thing. Yes, If I would find a serious contradiction with a superior aim I should stopp...Do you know the History about the famous polititian that introduce in the Argentine politics of every day “the Malvinas Argentinas cause”? He resigned to fight for the cause precisely when he realize that was using by the pro nazis . Alfredo Palacios with about 15 other polititians, he formed a “Committee to Recover the Malvinas” “Junta de Recuperación de las Malvinas”, which first met at his house on 19 October 1939, six weeks after the outbreak of the WWII. the members of the Committee hoped that the outcome of the war would allow Argentina to take over the Falklands. They lobbied politicians, and published a manifesto on 3 January 1940 (the anniversary of the British ocupation over the Falklands in 1833). When France asked for an armistice On 17 June 1940, only 3 days after he resigned from the Committee he had founded only eight months before – he did not wish to continue with a campaign that was being used by German and Italian sympathisers in Argentina to attack Britain, which was now fighting alone against Nazi Germany. So in that case A.Palacios a polititian with many wrong ideas but with a superior ethic stop breathing for the casuse that he was involved the last 30 years. Because he understood that in that moment Britain was the real world´s bulwark against tyranny and aggression. Have you stopped to think any time if you would support the “Malvinas Argentinas cause” until the last consequences in this new era of “struggle for the Falklands” it is very possible that Argentina will have to find allies in the SOCIALISM OF THE XXI CENTURY, IRAN; CUBA; NORTH KOREA & COMUNIST CHINA (strictly odependent on the price! But I think Britain will pay better); (only fundamentalist dictatorships ) ? No one from the free world will help Argntina in a confrotation against britain. The last time was Lybia under Gadaffy´s regime and Noriega´s Panama...
(73) Dr. Cowes
Jan 31st, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your help with the various dictionary definitions of the word “People”.
But………….
I dare say that countless hours (and cups of coffe) of institutional involvement on the planning, development and drafting of the “UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples” have given me some functional insight about what the UN considers a “People” and whom the right of “Self- Determination” applies to………..
http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/DRIPS_en.pdf
You finish your post saying:
”I can show you that all Argentines that want the “Malvinas Argentinas” are only repeating the arguments that all that bad guys said in the past. There is not a new single idea!”
Well…………. At post (69) I presented you with two “real world” existing working models (Åland Islands and Saint-Pierre et Miquelon) that could very well be implemented on the “Malvinas Issue”…….. You didn’t even have the deference of acknowledge the receipt of them………….
May I now ask you….
What are your ”New Ideas”?
Just grant the whole South Atlantic and Antarctic to the UK?
(75) Dr. Cowes
1) You story about A. Palacios shows the integrity of an Argentinean politician willing to abandon a comparatively minor national cause for the word’s common wealth……….
It certainly does NOT detract an iota from the rightness of his campaign for the recuperation of the Malvinas.
Hope the English turnips are reading your writings…… I’m tired of their turnipy asseveration about the Malvinas Cause being J.D. Peron’s invention.
2) Argentina is finding its allies much closer from home.
Firstly in Chile, Bolivia, Perú, Ecuador, Colombia, Venezuela, Brasil, Paraguay and Uruguay.
Next in line...: Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean.
Then we take Manhattan,and then we take Berlin. (Leonard. Cohen :-)
The only confrontation they’ll help us with will be the economical, political and diplomatic one.
67 Zeth
Jan 31st, 2012 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and not allow its return, in violation of territorial integrity
68 AGCOWES
You have not adequately studied the Falklands conflict. Resolution 2065 is clearly in favor of Argentina.
The Argentina got with the statement that the United Nations should interfere in the Question of the Malvinas Islands, recognize the existence of a sovereignty dispute, makes the solution of the problem to negotiations between the two countries taking into account the interests of the islanders, leaving aside the principle of self-determination required by Resolution 1514 (XV), it was not asked the United Kingdom to grant independence to the Falkland Islands or take into account the wishes of the islanders.
On March 18, 1966 an information circular of the General Secretariat of the United Nations informed the members of the UN after that date, the name of the islands in the official documents of the body would be, ”Falkland (Malvinas)“ documents in English and ”Malvinas (Falkland)” for documents in Castilian.
The resolution was ratified in 1973 by Resolution 3160, XXVIII. Resolution 31/49 in 1976 and ratified the above said.
(...) Urges both parties to refrain from taking decisions that involve the introduction of unilateral changes in the situation while the islands are going through a process recommended in the aforementioned resolutions (...)
That prompted added that the UK voted against and was approved by 102 votes, with 32 abstentions.
Other similar resolutions were: 37 / 9 of the General Assembly, dated November 4, 1982 (37 / 9) adopted by 90 countries, 12 votes against and 52 abstentions, the resolution recognized that the war ended five months before did not alter the existence and nature of the dispute. Annually, the General Assembly and the Special Committee on Decolonization, continued acting in the same direction.
RAUL : you are telling me the same statement that I am listening since the 70tie, s but I am sorry the RESOLUTION 2065 says very clear that the UN ” Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples with a view to finding a peaceful solution to the problem, bearing in mind the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations and of General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas); ” So it is more than clear !! that the parties must take in account for the negotiationes three items ( not only one) : 1) the provisions and objectives of the Charter of the United Nations ; 2) General Assembly resolution 1514 (XV) and 3) the interests of the population of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) ...So starting again to explain one more time !!! the two first includes whithout any doubt the “self determination of the peoples” and the last one so the Nr. 3, that during the years of the “Military / fascist diplomacy” they could sold to our “ internal political audience ” as a striking success ! After 50 years of the humanitarian law´s evolution nobody that knows about constitutional law in the entire globe also in our law system ( after confirm and included in our constitution the whole human law treaties ) could imagine how any government could preserve the interest of individuals whithout ask them about what they really WANT to do. if you don´want to use the word that the 60's fascist / diplomacy sold as great success that got removed from the resolution text and which produce fear in our “ Democratic modern Diplomacy” ( but sadly with very old concepts of that diplomacy of those years) I meaning the word WISHES .......
Jan 31st, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Raul
Feb 01st, 2012 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Each of the resolutions you are spamming is long obsolete, as are nearly all UN resolutions based on such issues as they are mere opinions and recommendations with zero legal merit or standing, which is why they are non binding legally or politically.
Each of these sources however are fully legally binding
The UN charter Chapter 1
www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter1.shtml
and Chapter 11
www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter11.shtml
and ICJ precedents
in Westen Sahara www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=4&k=69&case=61&code=sa&p3=0
in Kosovo www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=4&code=kos&case=141&k=21
and in East Timor www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=430&code=pa&p1=3&p2=3&case=84&k=66&p3=5
All give full legal support to the ISlanders, and give them the full right of self determination. As they are legally binding mandates, they each utterly outweigh General Assembly resolutions (half of which support britain anyway)
also the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
www2.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm
the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cescr.htm
and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml
all give Total, and utter support to self etermination of ALL peoples
there is zero legal statement from the UN that states this does not apply to the Islanders, nor any non legal statement to that effect.
now produce a Fully legal argument as to why EACH of these Legally binding laws and precedents do not apply
78 AGCOWES
Feb 01st, 2012 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 079 Braedon
Resolution 2065 (XX)
The General Assembly, Having considered the question of the Malvinas Islands (Falkland Islands), Taking into account the chapters of the reports of the Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples concerning the Malvinas (Falkland Islands) and in particular the conclusions and recom ¬ mendations adopted by it relating to that Terri ¬ tory, whereas its resolution 1514 (XV) of December 14, 1960, was inspired by the desired purpose of putting an end to colonialism everywhere and in all its forms, one of which fits the case of the Malvinas Islands (Falkland Islands).
(THE FOLLOWING IS FUNDAMENTAL)
Noting the existence of a dispute between the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland concerning sovereignty over these islands.
(Recognizing the principle of territorial integrity over self-determination by the existence of a conflict is of sovereignty).
1. Invites the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to proceed without delay with the negotiations recommended by the Special Committee to examine the situation ¬ tion with respect to the implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples to find a peaceful solution to the problem, taking due account of the provi ¬ tions and objectives of the United Nations Charter ¬ das and resolution 1514 (XV) of the General Assembly and the interests of the people of the Falkland Islands (Falkland Islands);
2. Calls on both Governments to inform the Special Committee and the General Assembly at the twenty-first session on the outcome of the negotiations.
1398th. plenary session, December 16, 1965.
Do not be afraid to debate and negotiation to resolve the conflicts caused by colonialism and imperialism English en 1833.
THINK Yes a New something about Åland Islands and its comparison since I read History o the XX CENTURY by Howsbawn he dedidicate to teh Falklands issue very few lines and supeficially mentioning the question of the Åland Islands as the nearest precedent with the Falkland Islands...About Saint-Pierre et Miquelon I have neven heard before your post about these Islands in my life. Now because yor mention I tried to read very few: So what I can tell you about bothe cases that are cases before the sanction of UN CHARTER and the enormous development of the international humanitarian law and whithout any doubt mainly taking into account and before another interest of third parties the wishes of the inhabitants and their rifht to freely detremine their future. If Argentina would regonize their rights as subjects with an anttity to negociate expresing their wishes that would be a great and a very welcome change. My idea is not give the “whole South Athlantic to UK ” concerning the F I. this Islands their owners are the inhbitants. And they must dicide. Tierra del Fuego belong to Argentina. And the Antartic according to the Antartic treaty it belong to all their members.
Feb 01st, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What I tried to show you about Palacios is concernig your previous question about “As far as I know L. F. Galtieri did breath air….. Should I stop breathing because of it?” I demonstrated you that Palacios didn ´t wanted to be beside together with nazi and authoritarian defenders claiming the falklnads against Britain. He found their limt to his conflict with England. About your point Nr. 2 I insist that if any kind of serious confrontation will appear in future . Serious contries will not stand for Argentina against Britain only Countries with dictatorship or populist governments shall stand for Argentina against UK in the moment of crucial struggle for the Falklands...
When she stops being greedy and selfish, she will perhaps understand that the islands are not Argentina’s, and have never been Argentina’s,
Feb 01st, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never administered by Argentina, or run by Argentina,
As a matter fact, the only interest Argentina has had in the Falklands in the last 10 years have been
Abuse, threats, intimidation, blockading, and her minerals and oil .
Oh and the daily indoctrination classes by their ever caring bloggers .
79 Braedon
Feb 01st, 2012 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Each of the resolutions that are spam is long obsolete, like almost all UN resolutions on the basis of issues such as are mere opinions and recommendations with zero legal merit or standing, which is why they are not legally binding or politically.
You are too proud and arrogant. Did you God to decide whether this or that resolution is obsolete and that resolution is not obsolete? You are profoundly mistaken. Be more humble and put in place for those who suffer the English colonialism and imperialism.
It is absolutely true in 1833. The decolonization committee of the United Nations both theories exhaustively study both English and Argentine and finally ruled in resolution 2065 that recognizes a sovereignty dispute and therefore a “breach of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. He came to that conclusion by analyzing the historical and social processes that occurred in 1833. So the context is English imperialism and colonialism in its maximum expansion around the world and in that time period, hence the context. And in that context, explains the four British invasion to Argentina 1806-1807-1833 and 1843 in “The Return of obligations.” Unable to conquer England to Argentina in 1806 and 1807 will come in 1833 invaded the Falkland Islands and unfortunately continues today, of course most waned, English colonialism and imperialism, which continues today in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Iran .
I never cease to claim Argentina since 1833, which is strict justice, to redress breaches of national unity regard it should be borne in mind that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” sets in the sixth paragraph that ”Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter.
(81) Dr. Cowes
Feb 01st, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) You say:
”So what I can tell you about both cases (Åland & Saint-Pierre et Miquelon) that are cases before the sanction of UN CHARTER”
I say:
Please Dr. …………. What you are saying is not correct.
We are both grown up people, no need to deviate from the truth.
2) I never respond to arguments based on the ”Reductio ad Hitlerum”.
I find it a distasteful and uselesss way of implying guilt by association.
3) To finish….:
You insist about an imaginary future ”Serious Military Confrontation”.
You insist about ”Serious Countries” not standing by Argentina in such case.
I insist about the near impossibility of such a military conflict.
But I’m certain that most ”Serious Countries” will indeed stand by Argentina in case of a military aggression by the UK…..
And please, before you start lecturing me about the “impossibility” of such a scenario….
Try to remember the Suez Crisis….
It happened not so long ago….
THINK I told you the truth that I heard about Saint-Pierre et Miquelon for the first time from you ( I am sorry, I comitted a Mistake that the solution was before the sanction of UN CHARTER , so I ask you pardon. But concerning the Islands in Finland I told you all I know and I know that the solution to the conflict was one of the very few conflicts that the Society of nNations could solve before WWII ...Nevertheless I ll tell you in advanced two things. 1) The solution at least in the Finish Islands was with the aproval of the inhabitants 2) I will not study deeply that cases ( by now ) because I think are completly irrelevant for this conflict. About your 2nd answer I don´t understnd you. But I think is irrelevant also. 3) Alright we can agree that we are disagree in this point....After the end of the movie I would like to talk again with you. By the way , did you read “LA ULTIMA BATALLA DE LA TERCERA GUERRA MUNDIAL by HORACIO VERBITZKY , 1984 ”? in that excelent book Verbitsky explain very well how all the media and diferent sectors of the society helped to the military dictators to do the war against British and how until the last days before the defeat in Argentina the most of the people thought : “We are wining”!!
Feb 01st, 2012 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul
I am very sory but I really can ´t understand your point in the post nr. 80
(85) Dr Cowes
Feb 01st, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) The Åland Islands Issue is, even today an ongoing process…..
2) Too long to enumerate here but I think one of the last big resolutions was taken in the late 90’s
3) As you say, the solution was with the approval of the inhabitants………….. hard-pressed by their Swedish government to accept the terms of the agreement………… or else……………..
I’m sure you could Google it if interested………….
THINK Thank you very much for. I am very sory, nothing personal , but for the moment I am not thinking in studying the Åland Islands Issue. I don ´t think it is relevant in the current the particular level of the conflict. Before that it is very necesary to work very hard with the “Malvinas Argentinas Myth” in the Argentine culture which is making great injuries to our Democratic society...
Feb 01st, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0INK Thank you very much for. I am very sory, nothing personal , but for the moment I am not thinking in studying the Åland Islands Issue. I don ´t think it is relevant in the current the particular level of the conflict. Before that it is very necesary to work very hard with the “Malvinas Argentinas Myth” in the Argentine culture which is making great injuries to our Democratic society.
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does any one persecute you in Argentina cowes for your ideas??
Because here they said kirchner is a dictatorship...
The brits here are 90% BS...
MALVINERO Nobody is persecuting me till now!! Why are you asking me that? Who says that the Kirchnerism is a dictatorship? someone who say something like this, doesn ´t konw what a dictatorship really is . Do you think you know about dictatorships ? and what really happen in the countries ruled under dictatorships ? I think the Kirchnerist administration it is a very bad administration but no worse than the previous democratic administrations and of course very much better than the last criminal military dictatorship ( that was a real dictatorship ) .
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sory but I don´t understand your last sentence . What is 90 % BS ? and where is here??
(87) Dr Cowes
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are welcome Dr. Cowes…..
Nothing personal from my side either, of course…
But you are just attacking the symptom and not the disease…
Anyhow, as we both know, the new, determined Argentinean Internationalist policy on the ”Malvinas Issue”, (kick-started nearly two years ago by the British Oil Prospection in South American waters) is ongoing and , in my eyes, surprisingly effective.
The UK has, clearly shown the whole of South-America what their true intentions are with the 12.000.000 km2 “Excusive Economic Zone” they are claiming in the South Atlantic.
And South-America is reacting accordingly.
@Raul
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 05:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I said earlier, spam posting the resolution is meaningless, as the resolution itself is MEANINGLESS, this is because it directly contradicts UN/ICJ law and ruling, which are legally BINDING. It is also decades obsolete, which removes what little advisory value it had.
This is not arrogance; this is basic recognition of fact. International LAWS are infinitely more important and binding than RESOLUTIONS. This is long established UN practice.
The decolonisation committee lost all importance once all territories exerted self determination. Now it is just another forum for self pitying wretches like argentina to scream for attention. This is why it’s resolutions hold even less weight then the already non-legal, decidedly obsolete and non-binding general assembly resolutions.
If argentina whines that there is a breach of territorial integrity it needs to go to the ICJ to prove it. However for the past 60 years you have done nothing but refuse and run away from the subject when it is brought up, despite the onus being on you to take it to court.
And the context is argentina attempting to illegally steal a territory which Britain had the sole legal claim to, and whose settlement had recognised British sovereignty when founded. We had full legal right to take control in 1833 as the settlement had broken our contract, and this legally ended any argentine pretension to a claim.
As for the battles of 1806/7, we were fighting the Napoleonic wars against Spain at the time and launched a diversionary attack on Spanish colonies in order to divert troops from other theatres. This failed, and was merely another minor battle in a much larger war. The fact argentina is so obsessed by this is quite amusing though.
Given your own history of mass genocide of native argentines, stealing their land and settling it with white settlers, your whining about colonialism show just how deluded hysterical nationalists like you truly are.
Stop whining and grow a spine
Mr think : I thought we has talked about this before ? I told you we can agree that we are disagree in this point....and you know who I am, but I only know the name of your “nick” so after the end of the “movie”, come to talk about this Argentine “international policy” as you named it ...
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 092 AGCOWES B/S it means bull shit,
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems that only your fellow argies seem to insult you,
mr malv- does not agree with you,
I would ask all people posting something on here regarding falklands / malvinas or malvinas/falklands, to consider this take a long good look at the people whipping up this hysteria , cameron in his nice blue suit , kirshcner in her designer dresses , and all because there is a possibilty of oil being found off the coast of these islands and the wealth it might bring , wealth to who ? the working class british or argentine family, NO,its to boards of those big oil companies that the likes of Cameron and .kirshcner and their families sit on , do you really think that if this was a barren rock in the middle of no where this would still be being argued over , no this is corporate versus corparate over potential oil , greed versus greed .. and if we can forget about who actually owns this sheep shit Island and agree to share the benefit of any energy finds equally between both countries and to the benefit of both our peoples then we might prosper and become good partners , but dont bank on it as i fear greed will win again
Feb 02nd, 2012 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst the IMF is telling Argentina to focus on controlling their economy and inflation problems - they decide to focus on the Falkland Islands. Hahaha!
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst the IMF is telling Argentina to focus on controlling their economy and inflation problems - they decide to focus on the Falkland Islands. Hahaha!
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 04:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0AHAahahah.like uk has a much bigerr problem and cameron is wasting your tax money.So far Malvinas campaign it cost NOTHING to Argentina..keep spending your money...I DO NOT CARE!!
94 cromwell
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, you are aptley named. The real Cromwell was out of touch with the people he ruled as a regicidal dictator (He was buried in Westminster Abbey. After the Royalists returned to power, they had his corpse dug up, hung in chains, and beheaded.)
Sheep shit Island eh! Oh dear, time for your institutional helmet: the Islanders see things totally different to this. And it is their views that matter AND only their views.
Judging by the imature writing, lacking any senblance of grammar, I think you are an Argie attempting to mislead us. Only an Argie would use the SS descriptor.
In the long term the cost will be always very much harder for a little and poor country of the third world as Argentina than for Britain ( the 7th economy of the world) ....Britain has its own shipyards and weapons factories so they are mainly exepnding money in their own economy ...But Argentina? How many business are losing the Argentine people in the Southern Athlantic fishers and oil business? Do any have an idea? The current Argentine govenment it is puting first an unrealistic purpose to reach geostrategic objectives to position the Country in a better rank of regional leadership than the benefits of the individuals that compose Argentina.
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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