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Montevideo, June 25th 2019 - 20:11 UTC
The UK press reports that the Royal Navy is to send one of its most powerful warships to the Falkland Islands as tensions rise with Argentina over the disputed territory. Read full article
One Type 45 is worth more than the Argentinean Navy and Air Force put together.
The Argie Thyssen subs are obsolete and waiting conversion to atomic power!! You have to laugh at them, don't you. They should convert them to something like an Astute, oh! - that would mean scrapping them and throwing them away first. :o)
Whoohoo, now this is what I call a REAL pirate ship :-)
I remeber all those argentine bloggers that did not believe us when we said we would be sending one of the new type 45's down there this year. Will be interesting to see how argentina react, though i expect it will accuse the UK of further aggression when its clear its just a routine deployment.
Hang on, the UK is finished
The UK is broke
Interesting then that we can send this ship to the Falklands,
Perhaps some argie bloggers think that it is an Airfix model,
Keep looking boyo’s this is the real thing .
Thank God the British Lion is not asleep! Insects beware.
The Prophecy of the Fox
”Her army and her navy. England shall cast aside; Soldiers and ships are costly things, Defence an empty pride”
@6 Bit weak, Margo.
Did you know that ONE of our destroyers is twice the size of ONE of yours and TWICE as capable as ONE of yours? Oh, you only have four? Send them all at the same time. We can arrange for them ALL to dock next to that heap of tin, the Belgrano, at more or less the same time. What a wonderful 30th anniversary that would be!
Poor Brits they don't rule the waves anymore and by sending another HMS Crap to South America only helps peaceful Argentina to gain more support.
More support Marcos? Zero multiplied by any number is still zero so feel free to claim any increase in support. I see FI ships can fly the UK ensign and enjoy Brazilian hospitality. oh and the rig has set anchor over the next drill site. What support do you call that :-)
Again you are a bit useless.
6 Marcos Alejandro
I have a high powered rifle and shoot foxes.
HMS Crap, I think you are right for once in your life: it will certainly kick the crap out of your little flottila.
But, it will never come to that. CFK may be deranged but she is not stupid. SHE KNOWS what a useless military she has - she helped emasculate it because she herself is frightened of a strong force and the possible threat to her, Fat Boy, Thin Girl and all the other wasters in the Kirchner 'government'.
Again you hate the fact that you're powerless to stop the change, sending a warship to the area is a perfect example of that.
@12 What change Marcos, nothing has changed, the Falkland islands are british, they are still british and nothing you do will change that. The only thing that has change is your deluded view that others are supporting you, yet you fail to see they only agree with you in order to benefit from trade, so its only and agreement of convience, which will change when it becomes less profitable for them. Also if a conflict did occur, they national interest would be to not get involved as it would cost them more money and military wise then they would gain from helping argentina.
On a seperate note, the tensions over the falklands have now made main stream news headlines in the UK after it being shown on ITV Evening News. So the whole of the UK population will now be fully aware of the way argentina is sabre rattling, hell they even interviewed an Argentine Falklands veteran who called the deployment of the HMS Duantless as an act of provocation, despite the fact its a routine deployment. Or are we suppose to keep sending our older ships down there and not bother upgrading our ships or build new ones to replace the older ones in order to protect and defend our national interest and sovereignty, just to keep cry baby argentina happy.
Britain’s message to Argentina: don’t even think about it!
Ohhhh bet we are quaking in our boots...or laughing. :-)))
Quaking or laughing, you get the message.
Brazil, like Chile, seem to be more interested in buying British military equipment than fighting it on your behalf.
Never mind you still Hugo willing to fight for you.
@'12 Marcos Alejandro (#)'Again you hate the fact that you're powerless to stop the change, sending a warship to the area is a perfect example of that.'
Its entirely the opposite in fact. It is there as a symbol emphasising your inability force change in your favour, and to show that only the islanders can call HMS Dauntless (Or as i like to call it, HMS can destroy the entire Argentine navy, and destroy any excoset missiles that the pesky antiques fire.) off, and send it away.
Message from Argentina to Mr Cameron about that HMS Crap:
Hurry up! :-)))
Hey Brits,Britain gives over a billion in aid to India and they don't even buy you jets :-)))
French manufacturer Dassault has entered exclusive negotiations with the Indian government to supply the country with fighter jets in a major blow to British industry
@17 Marcos Alejandro (#) How very surprising an uneducated and simple-minded Argentine, who seems to lack the ability to read more than a headline or the first paragraph.I don't expect you to understand sarcasm.
'industry experts said the contract was yet to be signed and the Typhoon consortium still had a chance of winning the work.'
In more simple terms that i think you will be able to understand better, they haven't finalised the deal, and are clearly playing the field. The cost of the Typhoon exceeded that of the French fighter, and so this is probably a ploy to try and get the British to lower the price of the fighter, as it is clearly the better choice, as the French Jets are far older, and outdated. But then again i suppose it is a waste of time to try and 'preach' to an Argentinian about old, outdated and useless aircraft......
Where are all of your friends tonight?
@9 Margo. Please get your comments right. It's not peaceful Argentina. It's sh*te Argentina.
How do you fancy we crap on you?
Here's a tip, dog's breath. How do you fancy 180 warheads on your so-called capital? How do you fancy 30 naval shells per minute? How do you feel about British Typhoons carrying bombs and missiles? How do you feel about dying? Please make no mistake. I want you dead. I want you ripped into shreds. I want you incapable of dragging your eviscerated body more than two feet. I want every one of your compatriots, male, female or child, to be the same. I want you and everyone you know to die screaming.
Get the idea? Most of the people of Britain feel the same way. We want you dead!
And to think that the Argentine Gov't has not once, not twice but countless time that there would not be any overt violence in reclaiming las Malvinas. That this (as opposed to the military regime in'82) is a democratically elected gov't and that, in turn, it would proceed through diplomatic means.
I guess the UK believes in might only and that might makes right. Otherwise, why would you spend valuable tax payer dollars (in a time of crisis) sending such a vessel when Argentina has made it part and parcel of its position not to use overt violence?
@21 Helber Galarga (#) Because we've learnt better than to trust the Argentines. You want us to take your word for it that you wont try to invade ever? Thats a rather naive view.The fact that we have never instigated any violence towards you unless provoked, can ensure your safety as a country, that we will not hurt you unless provoked .
Since the Indian Government prefers the French fighter rather than that piece of junk called Typhoon, Brian Riches is so embarrassed that he changed is name to Conqueror.
@23 Marcos Alejandro Since you chose to ignore my post, that so clearly defeat yours, evident by the fact that you fail to even attempt to defend them, you seem rather idiotic right now.
@21 In the words of Basil Fawlty You started it.
@23 Yeah thats right marcos the Typhoon is so shit that just one trainer version of the typhoon beat the hell out of 2 F15e jets belonging to the USAF. The F15E being regarding as the best fighter currently flying, well untill then it was anyway.
Buts thats not all, The Typhoon also performed well against the USAF F22 too - http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/eurofighter_a_shooting_star_in_clash_with_us_jets_1_1391209 see the last couple of paragraphs.
So is the typhoon really shite Marcos, nah its just about an equal to the F22 Raptor, and even capable of beating the F22 raptor. So its pretty clear your comments are based purely on jealously because you know that your own airforce hasn't got a single plane that doesn't have parts drop off it when it flys
Sorry second link in my post above #26 should have been - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1818077.stm
9 Marcos Alejandro
Poor Brits they don't rule the waves anymore and by sending another HMS Crap to South America only helps peaceful Argentina to gain more support.
If the type 45 is crap then what does that makethe argentine navy then?
Peaceful is NOT threatening to take over another country/people. peaceful is not Argentina.
Well Brits not to worry, at least you have the full support of the Americans.
You know the special relationship
The Obama administration knifes Britain in the back again over the Falklands
Poor, peaceful Argentina with nasty Britain acting so aggressively against them.
Who are you all trying to fool? Firstly, you started the last act of aggression which is still in all of our memories.
...and secondly, everyone knows that if UK defence (DEFENCE) forces dropped their guard, CFK would try once again to sieze our islands without hesitation.
One last point. Why are you so concerned about the UK's economy and how it spends it's tax payers' money? It's none of your business. Come to think of it, the whole issue is none of your business. The Falklands are British and Britain can choose to defend its interests however it wants.
@29 Marcos Alejandro Considering that Obama does not like Britain, and does not speak on behalf of the Us, and consider also that he is unlikely to remain in power for another term, that really makes your point seem pretty useless. Not to worry, i didn't expect you to come out with anything useful. Judging by your countries use of points in an argument, or lack of, and there inability to win at any sort of debate, i am not really shocked.
One day, Argentina will be free of corruption and have a government that believes in democracy and self-determination. In the meantime, GO GO TYPE 45S!
Thor, go back to your superhero comic book.
@ What a very unimaginative and dimwitted comment. Are you aware that Thor is not just a character of a comic book and that he is a Norse God, and also that you've failed to argue against any of my points, because your an idiot and from Argentina :)
MALVINAS MAS QUE NUNCA ARGENTINAS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BniyC33QdjM
One day, Argentina will be free of corruption and have a government that believes in democracy and self-determination. In the meantime, GO GO TYPE 45S
uk NEED it because they are squatters.No proper tittles..Look at Costa Rica..no army,no problems,,they have the papers in order....uk DOES NOT HAVE LEGAL TITTLES!
36 Malvinero1 Well you can scream, you can cry, but the islands will remain under the possession of the UK government and free for the islanders, as long as they wish. The fact that English people lived there before the Argentines makes them exclusively British...
@ Helber Galarga
You know all about might makes right you tried it in 1982.
No matter what you, CFK or any other Argentinian says on the matter, we believe that you would stab us in the back again in a heartbeat if you thought you could get away with it.
We do not believe anything your government says about non violence because it lies about the history of the dispute.
We do not believe anything your country says because as a population you deny that you supported the aggression that you perpetrated in 1982.
We do not believe anything that your country says because you are the ones initiating this little cold war - with your pathetic paper blockade, squid fishing strategy, threats to land a fishermans invasion to cause a breach of the peace on the islands, not counting the threat to withdraw LAN flights.
We do not believe what your country says because your warships have penetrated falklands waters on several occasions, issuing challenges to shipping.
We do n0t believe a word that you say because your goverment denies the right of british people to live in peace, as far as you are concerned they are squatters, usurpers etc etc.
Your are bellicose and hostile towards us. You are our enemies. Your actions and policies prove this to us.
Besides the RN has the freedom of the seas, HMS Dauntless can go anywhere she likes, no matter how much you complain, you can't stop her from deploying to protect our people from you.
“Governments should try to avoid falling in the temptation to engage in discourse that transforms patriotism in bullying patriotism in order to distract public attention from policies of economic adjustment in the midst of a structural crisis and high unemployment.”
Loved that bit :-)
The United Kingdom has the right to assign missions and deploy assets of whatever calibre within international law with their resources.
Brazil and Chile, as well as almost the entirety of Latin America, are committing a strategic and pecuniary mistake in buying any foreign military equipment, whether British, German, Italian, or French, or Spanish, or American, or whatever.
What they are acquiring are 2nd hand scraps, purged of technologically sensitive features (understandably). Yet they pay exorbitant prices for them; it is an exceedingly foolish strategy long term both financially and industrially. That money should be used within the countries to promote scientific R&D to develop a native military establishment.
This is ONE area I find myself satisfied with the policies of CFK: she has gutted the military, purposefully, due to historical animosity fostering a policy of a belated redressing of grievances. Adventitiously, this has meant Argentina is the lone country in Latin America that has made no military purchases whatsoever. In the past decade every other nation in the region has, fueling a mini-arms race during that period; even small countries have been involved. I do not want the money of Argentina’s budget meted out to fill the pocket of foreign defense contractors.
Argentina does not need to waste expenditures in a conventional military; it will never defeat a large nation in such a conflict. But this crotchet of mine is clearly an outlier opinion. I have always postulated Argentina should ditch the army and navy, and only keep a very small but extremely mobile land and sea patrol force. The money saved in a standing military would then be used to develop a dissuasive shield whose only purpose would be to defensively repel an invasion, one so onerous to overcome in diplomacy, life, ordnance, and treasure, that it makes the task of invading the country a Pyrrhic proposition.
Malvinero1 Well you can scream, you can cry, but the islands will remain under the possession of the UK government and free for the islanders, as long as they wish. The fact that English people lived there before the Argentines makes them exclusively British...
Mr thor(I like Odin more),I do not scream,but that is the Reality.....The Spaniards were BEFORE the brits.....and Argentina were before the uk....
No treaty no cession...you are there illegally...Now what are going to do with the NON OIL in MAlvinas???
We have proven reserves in Argentina,On the SanJorge,And Tierra del fuego. and On shore.too bad the brits will not get any....
Ohhh I am criying to brits stupidity..My God...
poor deluded brits..3 million unemployed,9 trillion foreign debt....Oil running out from uk....
40 Tobias I do not want the money of Argentina’s budget meted out to fill the pocket of foreign defense contractors
Well said Tobias.
We can also do the Indian move, make the Brits believe we are buying their junk jets and at the last minute buy the French jets.
A few months ago...
The RAF's Typhoon combat jet is the leading contender in the battle to win a multi-billion pound deal to supply the Indian air force with a battle-proven combat jet Yeahhh!
Britain has suffered a major industrial setback after the Indian government chose French manufacturer Dassault Ooooooppssss :-)
Marcos, you lose me when you use silly language such as labelling Typhoons junk jets. The United Kingdom can manufacture jets, Argentina cannot. I am a pragmatic realist; and by the way, they are very much quality fighters. Credit where credit is due.
That does not signify Argentina cannot engineer fighter jets. In fact, I think the only branch of the military Argentina should retain and heavily encourage—in my crotchet vision—is an modern and large air force. We designed fighter jets in the past, we can again. It will require a couple of decades of R&D to develop units that could take on modern fighters, but at least the money will be spent internally, afford people high-quality employment, and foster science and noetic pursuit.
I don't believe in misleading or beguiling anyone. Enough with juvenile foreign politics.
Yes the United Kingdom can manufacture jets, incredible jets capable of bombing thousands of innocents civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Thank God no war around here...just fog.
Well, that's their problem now isn't it? Every act of brinkmanship in this world has a consequence. The UK's involvement in the Middle East in the 20th century and now has had minatory, deadly consequences for them. Including within their home soil. History will judge everyone.
29 Marcos Alejandro
”Well Brits not to worry, at least you have the full support of the Americans.
You know the “special relationship”
Don't worry Argies, you have the full support of Venezuela, you know..the special relationship....
to those of you who seriously believe Argentina would ever contemplate taking the islands by force, well, I feel sorry because you are way off the mark and should see a shrink for your paranoia. And don't come with the '82 card on this one. First of all, that wasn't a democratically elected gov't and things are way different now.
That doesn't mean Argentina will bend over and hand the islands to you. Don't get me wrong now you freaks! What it does mean is that whatever attempts to reclaim the islands will be non-violent ones (i.e diplomacy)
This is clear! Therefore my misunderstanding as to the sending of the vessels. But, hey, if you wish to believe in the Axis of Evil, in Weapons of Mass Destruction and what-not, well, go ahead.
I already said, that as far as most of us are concerned, the word of an Argentine is meaningless. We don't trust your country one iota.
You can complain as much as you like, but the very fact that we have to deploy a garrsion and warships to protect the falklanders from the likes of you speaks volumes about what we really think about your nations' intent towards us.
You lied before 1982, you are lying now.
Do you seriously think that CFK would'nt order an attack on the islands if she thought she would face only token resistance, like 1982.
We very well remember seing the scenes of mass celebration and rejoicing in Argentina after the invasion, democratic governements love being popular as well. Another invasion, for no loss, would ensure CFK a place in your history second to non, and she knows it.
Try diplomacy until your blue in the face, we won't give in to the likes of you. You can't hand the islands back to us anyway, they already belong to the Falklanders, who want to remain british.
I find Argentinas' continual need to try and justify its lies about history freakish, as well as the need to deny the islanders the right to live in peace without comstant threats and harrassment. The constant expressing of the desire to occupy/retake/gain control of the islands and force the Falklanders to live under foreign occupation or leave is equally freakish.
I also find your countries' complaints about Prince William deploying to fly a SAR helicopter freakish, the man is doing his job, he may end up saving the lives of some of your people.......
Complaining about the deployment of HMS Dauntless is also freakish, freedom of the seas means she can go anywhere, we don't have to consult you.
... Some Kirchner aides have gone further, warning that Argentine forces could mount a new attack to seize the islands....
l firmly believe that the Argentines will try invasion again.
They could get rearmed by Venezuela for example. Or China.
lf, as you say, you won't try military action(l don't believe that!),
And you won't go to the ICJ,
Then HOW exactly to you think that you will get OUR lslands?
Do you think that we will just say, ok, Argentina come and get us?
Do you expect the Chinese Navy(your new friends) to come steaming over the horizon & force us to become part of your silly country?
Or are you just pissing against the wind?
Listen, you can believe all you like and you can accuse ME of all you like too. At the end of the day, I know much better than any of you what I think. I, personally, would NOT support Argentina taking the islands by force. Now, I cannot state it any clearer than that! So, if you want to continue making remarks along the lines of You lied before 1982, you are lying now well F@#K YOU
Once Hugo Chavez snuffs it im guessing Venezuela will be doing little other than desperatly trying to repair the country's crumbling economy, and trying to solve the legacy of crime, corruption and poverty he leaves behind. my bets the last thing they would want is to get embroiled with argentina's idiocy
also while china gives verbal support for negotiations, their support for argentina in other matters is zero, and the fact that they have far bigger interests and problems than entertaining argentine delusions means they will likely continue to ignore them.
on the other hand, given CFK has effectively neutered the military to safeguard her own power, any attempt by them to rearm after she leaves office will be too little, too late, as by then Britain will have gained it's supercarriers, and most likely the f35s to go with them
if argentina tries military action again it will be even more of a disaster than it's last failure
given CFK has effectively neutered the military to safeguard her own power
you are seriously one deluded muppet which is full of shit. You ignore so much it is not even funny.
Let me enlightened you spineless ignoramus. CFK has NOT neutered the military. If you would read and know more, you would be able to understand that the actual neutering of the military begun in '83 and has continued EVER SINCE PROGRESSIVELY ADMINISTRATION AFTER ADMINISTRATION (be they radicales or peronistas).
FFS, the utter and resolutely uninformed shit one has to read here.
hows your balls?
Cristina Fernandez confirms top commanders but purges 36 military brass
READ UP mate!! that is not news. Anyone willing to do more than just skim reading, as you appear to be doing, can look at the budget for the military since '83 and they will confirm a constant and unrelenting decrease of it. But you won't do it because you are too f@#king lazy!!
You seem to assume (and you know what they say of those that assume, don't you?), that all Argentines supported and benefited from the military regime. WELL NO! YOU ARE WRONG! MANY SUFFERED, and suffered more than you can even begin to imagine.
What that means is that we are sick of wars!
Now you can bring destroyers, speculate about the power of your fighter jets, and hypothesis about Argentina invading but it will NOT happen!!
You seem to enjoy, however, tossing off at the idea of an invasion. Sick f@@ks you are.
At the end of the day, Argentina has been very vocal lately about is rightful sovereignty over the islands in various international fora but Argentina has made no threats of attacking with navy or air force, has not deployed any warlike vessel. The same cannot be said about that ugly, foul smelling, tainted tooth, inbred race
so as SIYJ has noted, CFK has furthered the neutering of argentina's military. my point still stands, and your little sobbing tantrum is all the more unwarranted, although quite amusing.
And seeing how your attempt to subjugate a peaceful island community led to the ENTIRITY of your population shrieking in support of the military dictatorship, to the point of hundreds of thousands marching in support of the Junta, I would guess that your claims of everyone suffering is more self pitying rhetoric from another argentine too spineless to face his own history.
and tell me, how goes the efforts to stop the nightmarish poverty, malnutrition, disease and deprivation of the aboriginal argentines? oh but of course, as you claim to be ever so slightly descended from them, treating them as subhuman and leaving them to die while you occupy their land is OK in your view.
your country continues to glorify the genocides you waged to take the land you occupy, the wars of conquest you waged against your weaker neighbours, and continue to celebrate your attempt to subjugate the islanders as a noble adventure, and yet you whine you are sick of war?
the only reason you have not attacked the islanders again is that they are far better defended now, but if that protection was lifted, or you think you could get away with it you would attack and subjugate them like so many other innocents who have stood in the way of your civilizing conquests.
still what else can be expected from such a spineless, pathetic joke of a nation. bitterness, delusions of grandeur and hysterical self pity are the only things which define you
your country continues to glorify the genocides you waged to take the land you occupy, the wars of conquest you waged against your weaker neighbours
Funny comment, coming from someone who still probably supports an entity like the Commonwealth, an organization who owes its very existence to conquest, occupation, subjugation, deracination, and genocide. Really weak comment you were doing OK until that.
Hypocrisy at is finest.
We should send HMS Daring to the Falkland Islands as well.
Leave the Iranians and Straits of Hormuz to our valiant US allies.
Perhaps we should also now withdraw the thousands of UK troops fighting in Afghanistan. Our valiant US allies will cope just fine on their own alongside their French friends.
War with Argentina is just a heartbeat away. We need to be fully prepared to give them a nice warm welcome at sea, in the air and on the ground.
Who the hell are you to come on here and tell us brits and islanders, that we have no right to think that argentina would invade the islands again, just because you personally believe they will not. Well let me tell you something you spolit deluded little brat, whos drowning in his own self pity. We belive argentina would not invade the islands in 1982, we were in diplomatice discussions (like the ones argentina is calling for now) to hand over the islands, argentina claimed back then they would not invade, but despite that claim and the on going discussions, guess what? You retards invaded. And now your coming on here, telling us we should trust you and because you personally believe you will not invade the islands. Well you have no fucking right to tell anyone who they should and should not trust, we have just as much right to our own opinions and to make our own decisions on whether to believe argentina or not on whether it will invade again or not, as you do. So stop trying to tell us what to fucking think you deluded jumped up little retarded prick.
Oh and another thing, The fact the junta was behind the the invasion of 1982 does not mean argentina will not invade again, end of the day given your countries economic situation, which to be honest it on the edge of economic oblivion yet again, only the majority of argentines are to dumb to see that. Then its very likely just like any form of government that argentina will try another invasion in order to rally the support of its people, just like what happened in 1982. So the fact the junta order the invasion and the fact you are now a democarcy doesn't make the slightest bit of a fucking difference, when it comes to getting the population to support the ruling authority. Off course i do not expect you to understand that as your above posts show your clearly a retard dumb little prick.
ok then lets look at your accusations
conquest - yes britain like ALL nations at the time had an empire. what made this empire different was the fact that it's crimes were not only far less severe than it's rivals, but that they were counterbalanced by a long list of beneficial, and progressive actions which saved and improved billions of lives over the years. It also left the nations of the commonwealth peacefully after 1945, which is why nearly all of them voted to stay in the commonwealth.
occupation - which was almost entirely done by local rulers who acted as proxies to us, and were under our protection. this ensured both that we were able to rule with a minimum of expenditure, and also ensured that the territories were spared the nightmarish treatment nations like argentina inflicted upon the natives of lands you wanted.
subjugation - Abolishing slavery, instituting basic human rights where there were none before, ruling through local rulers and actively defying the most cruel and barbaric tyrants and practices of the areas we ruled. wheras you just exterminated the natives and permanently stole their land.
deracination - i refer you to the British enforced the global ban of slavery (whereas argentina, again, just exterminated the natives and permanently stole their land)
genocide - you mean the famines Britain actively fought and pioneered modern famine prevention in? or the actions of devolved dominion governments like Canada and Australia (neither of which committed outright genocide like you did, and both show infinitely more spine in taking responsibility for their history).
Whereas argentina, as always, just exterminated the natives and permanently stole their land
The British empire was far from perfect, but given the conduct of literally every other empire, including your own, its unsurprising why nearly every former territory elects to remain in the commonwealth
@ tobias “your country continues to glorify the genocides you waged to take the land you occupy, the wars of conquest you waged against your weaker neighbours”
A perfect description of Argentina and it's Conquest of the Desert.
Nice touch to be so honest and open about Argentina.
Wouldnt it make sense if they were your Islands to retake them if they were not defended, seeing that you wouldnt get them any other way
The argies sure gave that nasty Mr Galtieri a telling off when he invaded
Braedon, I usually do read the replies thoroughly out of basic respect, but I stopped when you attempted on me the two wrongs make a right maneuver.
a) My rivals were worse, an ignoble excuse to justify crimes. I can see it now in a murder trial of a man who killed her lover because his best friend had done the same (I did not bane her slowly and excrutiatingly with arsenic like he did, I merely throttled my girfriend... that makes it better!)
b) Counterbalanced by a long list of beneficial actions... equally rancid.
Just admit it, in order for you to justify your indignant comments on Argentina celebrating conquest (funny, since everyone here keeps telling me Argentina never amounted to anything at all... how can nothing have conquered anything then? Another fabulous sequence of intellections I have learned here :] ), you should be the first to condemn the existence of the Commonwealth, an organization that categorically would not have ever been founded if it were not for conquest.
I won't rejoinder your replies of what Argentina did vs other countries vis-a-vis natives, they are comments patently colored with facile bias and little shred of reality.
a) and where did i say this made what Britain did alright? i merely pointed out that the crimes of Britain were dwarfed by just about every other nation, and thus whining about British history as if it is uniquely evil is fundamentally stupid and intellectually dishonest.
b) neither did i say the beneficial actions made everything OK. i brought that up to help evidence my point that whining about how evil the British empire was is especially stupid when so much of the modern world and modern civilization relies on it's actions, inventions and achievements to a massive degree
history is not two dimensional GOOD/EVIL. the reason anybody even mentions your history is because it makes argentina's actions with regards to the Falklands especially hypocritical, whereas you complaining about British history is just an idiotic attempt to claim moral superiority based on your own fundamental misunderstandings of history.
Also mere conquest of areas by extermination, ethnic cleansing and settling European migrants on the land is in itself no accomplishment.
the fact every member of the commonwealth chooses to be in the organisation shows the former British empire territories do not agree with your delusional claims about how evil it was
You should be the first to condemn the existence of the Commonwealth, an organization that categorically would not have ever been founded if it were not for conquest.
Bit of an own goal there tobias. By this line of argument this means that Argentina would not exist but for the colonial expansionism of Spain. There by proving that Argentina is a product of colonialism.
Braedon, so now the moral/performmance relativism tactic...
You were worse than us—so you can't condemn us. Sorry, but that's not how the world works. By the way, me not pushing the issue of your insistence that Britain was so benevolent further, does not mean that I tacitly imply you are correct; I merely regard that argument as specious and inconsequential.
It also does not suggest I was bruiting about the notion the British Empire was evil, I just said it was an Empire—and empires conquer. I brought it up to see if you would condemn the Commonwealth and prove your indignation about Argentina's own past was genuine. As expected, you did not and furthermore you defend it; therefore, your condemnation of Argentina's past injustices is a simple debate strategy and vacuous of sincerity.
By virtue of not exterminating the populations of our African territories, India and other territories ruled from London, by virtue of relinquishing these territories peacefully after 1945, and by virtue of the unmatched level of beneficial actions undertaken while in possession of these territories which continue to benefit them and the wider world, we were better than you by far, despite having a far larger empire.
And given that your country despite it's history acts with such sickening hypocrisy with regards to the Falklands, we can indeed condemn you, as everything regarding your claim is either demonstrably fraudulent and/or utterly hypocritical.
Britain on the other hand is not attempting to subjugate or disenfranchise argentines, nor indeed anyone else as the commonwealth is a VOLUNTARY organisation which members choose to be in, and thus your attempt to claim some moral equivocalness is simply bullshit
If argentina did not act with such hypocrisy then no one would criticize it's history, much like how i do not criticize Zulu history despite the genocides it committed in the 19th century, as the currant Zulu peoples are not trying to continue doing this in the 21st century.
Heart of smugness
Unlike Belgium, Britain is still complacently ignoring the gory cruelties of its empire
Viva las Falklands,
But then... the Falklands would not exist as well! They are the product of colonization, so how can you make use of that argument against Argentina?
“But oh wait“, you will surely say. “It was you tobias who brought this up”.
No it wasn’t, it was Braedon and others with abuse of hypocrisy in condemning Argentina‘s subjugation of natives, using this as talking points again and again. I merely spotlighted the coruscate duplicity, I’m not denying how the world is, you guys are by bringing up all kinds of extenuating factors to justify Britain’s own past. Argentina’s coming about is completely irrelevant to the argument I was making: Braedon said Argentina celebrated its “conquests”, I countered that a country who endorses an entity such as the Commonwealth is equally if not more de facto “celebrating” conquest.
So, may I call your argument a “double-own” goal? :)
Braedon, back to Earth. Argentina did not exterminate the natives: 30% of the country is clearly mestizo, and some reports have suggested another 20% have have at least some native ancestry. That in itself comminutes yours and other's argument. Why didn't I bring this fact before? I just wanted to see how far you were willing to go with this.
Yes, a voluntary organization that nontheless exists because of conquest. You just can't admit and concede the point can you... Argentina has a Federation of native peoples and tribes, promoted by the government. They associate by choice.
And there, go your two arguments to deny moral equivalency to Argentina in regard to these issues (not the Falklands). Good afternoon.
Nice Ship ! so is it a coincidence? of course it is !!!!!!!!!
ok if you like i will present a simple step by step graph as to why argentina is a sickening hypocrite
- in the 19th century argentina waged wars of land theft and extermination for decades against natives and weaker neighbors, conquering land it still holds to this day
-in the 20th/21st century it continues to occupy said land, but whines about the UK because it did not allow them to do the same to a small island community
-as what argentina is accusing the UK of, is something argentina is far more guilty of in this situation, it is by every definition a hypocrite.
And don't try to weasel out of your history. the argentine government gave direct orders on multiple occasions to exterminate natives on sight in vast tracts of argentina. this is by EVERY definition a genocide.
The fact some argentines claim trace native heritage and that a few thousand actual natives remain merely evidence how efficient this extermination was. The horrifying condition that the currant aboriginal population lives in also helps prove my point.
and tell me does each of the federation of native peoples hold their original land? do they have full self determination and control of their resources? are they fully recognized nations?
if not then your whining about the commonwealth is even more meaningless
@70 Nice Ship ! so is it a coincidence? of course it is !!!!!!!!!
Yeah its about just as much a concidence as all the routinely planned 6 monthly patrols partaken by 2 different British navy vessels each year.
Though it is a concidence that your government was found to be planning a mock invasion of the islands with fishermen raising the argentina flag on them during the 30th anniversary, that is something you and argentina can not deny. And also, as it would have been sponsered and planned by the argentina government then it would have made it an act of war. As for all we know those fishermen could be argentine military in disguise. So i say we shoot first and ask questions later, if such an act does occur. And the only people you can blame for the deaths of innocent fishermen (though they would clearly not be so innocent) would be CFK for sending them on such a stupid mission, designed merely as a propaganda scoop.
I can't wait for the Argies to get a nuclear sub. Their economy is joke. The country bearly functions, most Argentines are illiterate, few would know where the Falklands are on a map (one told me somewhere in the Río de la Plata)!
Their politics are conducted at the intellectual level of small children. Can you imagine what an Argentine nuclear sub would look like? I can image large parts of Southern Argentine being uninhabitable not long after the first Argentine nuclear sub goes into meltdown.
The question is what comes first? The total meltdown of the Argentine economy or the meltdown of their first nuclear sub?
If you made use Argentina's history as burden of proof of her hypocrisy on the issue of the Falklands, you would indeed win the argument. The Falklands were uninhabited, thus on that measure the denizens of the Falklands have that moral higher ground.
The problem is, Britain, the United Kingdom, hold the lease. That makes the UK's history completely fair game. There is no in this situation as you slyly foisted. You can't claim the islands as British and then promptly dispense British history. Match point.
The federation of native peoples live in peace today, instead of mired in incessant warfare as they did prior to the existence of Argentina. That fact alone is benefit enough to outweigh any other injustices.
ps- If I could be honest with you, I would clearly state the last point was blatantly facetious and a crass insensitivity, but since you made use of the same line of reasoning to defend the Commonwealth (the crimes were counterbalanced...), it made perfect sense.
Good luck by the way using that line in a court of law. :)
Your argument shows a total lack of understanding about the Commonwealth of Nations. You fail to understand that not all members of the Commonwealth of Nations were part of the British Empire. The countries in the commonwealth are treated as equals and are not forced to join but join out of free will.
In essence all the countries of North and South America were in their present state brought about by the subjugation of the native peoples. The same argument would then apply to most nations across the world. The USA might as well fall on its sword as the three empires of France Spain and Britain were all involved in its colonisation.
I think you’ve taken your goalkeeper off and your strikers are kicking the ball continually into your own net.
Yeah its about just as much a concidence as all the routinely planned 6 monthly patrols partaken by 2 different British navy vessels each year...... But , you have to send that one? Talking about flexing the muscles to counter the Argentine rhetoric !
and by the way , how is the Ferrari running? :-)
”All but two of these countries (Mozambique and Rwanda) were formerly part of the British Empire, out of which it developed.
Ok so all buy two of 54, and the other two are offshoots. That's it, my facts” have been exposed! :)
And it still does not deny the fact that the organization owes its existence today to CONQUEST, and none of you have been able to deny.
I will be very happy to drop the argument if people here would stop saying Argentina celebrates conquest, without admitting utter hypocrisy.
No fancy football metaphors can change that. :)
And what is now Argentina owes its existence to conquest by who?
To Spain and the European settlers who followed the Spanish. You speak Spanish not some Amerindian language, your culture is predominantly European. You are a product of conquest.
And where am I arguing that? You are digressing.
Braedon stated Argentine celebrates ruthless conquest. I simply provided a glaring example of the same by Britain. No matter how voluntary the Commonwealth is today, it is in essence a monument to British REshaping of all those former pristine realms, a reshaping commited by force and enforced by gunpowder (btw, he has not provided any such evidence for Argentina, except some stupid depiction on an Argentine bill, big deal: the USA has Andrew Jackson, a ardent advocate of genodice of natives, on its 20; it has former slave owners; it has a drunken bigot too).
The point here is not to deny conquest, and you know it.
Actually the fact argentina is guilty of mass extermination/land thefts means that it has zero room to whine about British history whatsoever, especially since it is whining about British history in order to justify subjugating a demonstrably self determining territory.
If argentines like you decide to bitch about British history in place of any actual argument, then don’t scream that you are victims when we take a look at your own history.
You brought “peace” by exterminating any native who resisted your attempts to subjugate them and steal their land, and you killed a large number of the ones who did surrender. They may have waged war against each other but claiming your demonstrable campaign of genocide was a “good” thing is simply pathetic.
Right now the native argentines are less than a footnote in argentina, and are unlikely to survive long due to their sickening living conditions which you forced them to live in after depriving them of their land and resources.
Whereas the former territories of Britain not only rule themselves and their resources, but in many cases are prospering and building up on the infrastructure we left behind to attain even more success, and the only nations which have not benefited thus are the ones who intentionally uprooted this legacy in various revolutions decades after independence.
And tell me what “beneficial” contributions has argentina contributed to the native inhabitants of the territories it conquered if you claim there is equity?
Britain brought medical advances such as vaccination, and antibiotics, and pioneered anti famine techniques in places like India (saving billions of lives), built legal, political, economic and education infrastructures which former territories still rely upon, and of course enforced the abolition of practices like slavery, human sacrifice, and inter-tribal genocide.
What did you do for the native argentines which compares to this?
First, I'm not bitching about British history, I responded to your hypocritical statements (reply 57). It was you doing the bitching (reply 56). The thread order of answers does not lie. Point to me.
Second, it is clear that my second point on peace to the natives, is one of the most dramatic cases of whooosh I have ever seen. Your hair is still unkempt. Point to me
(admittedly, it is possible a child could have not grasped my irony, which even included a self-implicating ps... how old are you Braedon?) :)
Third, again, go in front of any court of law and make the case that the crimes occupation and murder are extenuated, nullified, or even outweighed by vaccines, farming techniques, antibiotics, and infraestructure.
Point to me.
so why exactly did you bring up the commonwealth and british history? neither of which are relevent yet you tried to crowbar them into this out of a deep ignorance as to both british history and what the commonwealth actually is.
and as for your irony given that the genocide is openly celebrated on your money, as is the fact that you civilized the natives, your clumsy attempt at irony was doomed to fail.
and so if you were being ironic what is your defense of your nations actions towards the natives? and what is your answer to my earlier question
and tell me does each of the “federation of native peoples” hold their original land? do they have full self determination and control of their resources? are they fully recognized nations?
and when every single member of the court in question is guilty of worse crimes than the accused, then that court holds zero right to judge, and no member of that court has any right to whine that it is the victim when it has victimized so many others
Well, even if I indulge you in conceding that my credentials on British History are as you claim (yet everything I said of the Commonwealth's origin is accurate), you still have not confuted my assessment that the Commonwealth is a byproduct of conquest, haven't you? I aver it yet again.
As a matter of fact, since you brought deep ignorance about history to the fray... What are your credentials to discuss Argentine history? How many years were you taught in school, in order to adduce all you are bruiting about?
But again I will indulge you with alacrity. Allow me to elucidate:
My defense is that there is none. It is you who I have successfully wheedled into defending the indefensible, reply after reply. None of what you wrote would pass muster in any court, not the least of which is your complaint that the court itself is unfit to adjudicate a ruling. Such standard would disqualify all human beings of rendering any judgment—ever. It's utter casuistry.
To depict this whole issue at a more human level: the murder of your wife, after years of caring and providing for her health, regaling her with opulence and finery, travels and spiritual company, is still a MURDER. No different than walking up to a homeless man and bludgeoning him to murder, after you had sent contumelious invectives at him. And that is that.
The federation of natives peoples within Argentina do not enjoy the option of self-determination. But hey, at least the argument could be made that Argentina's government is consistent there! (in a court of law that could be proposed, even if its morally reprehensible). Who knows, perhaps the rest of the countries of the Americas are supporting Argentina precisely because they realize what advocating self-determination ultimately entails?
Because you see, they are just as guilty in denying such alternatives to their native peoples as “evil“ Argentina.
The rest is further proof of your jingoist, tendentious, deluded self-conceit. I'll leave it at that.
actually it is a product of the relinquishing of control of these territories in exchange for a voluntary diplomatic alliance.
considering what happened to the inhabitants of the land you annexed (permanently) your whining about conquest is just more hypocrisy.
hell i can just look at the comments on this page (45, 57, 63 and every comment since) to see how this argument came about. you spent several comments whining about British history, only for you to desperately try to change the subject when i pointed out some basic facts and pretend you outmaneuvered me.
you claim that argentina's wholesale extermination and land theft does not matter, which shows how little you care about the genocides your nation still celebrates, even on it's money, is like if Germany had a picture of Auschwitz on it's euros. and of course you try to place all blame on Britain and ignore basic historical facts in a vain attempt to gain any moral highground.
the fact is Britain's empire caused far less death and suffering than almost every other empire, despite being far larger than it's rivals, and, unlike just about every other empire, it left a significantly larger positive legacy behind it.
argentina on the other hand caused nothing but suffering and extermination with it's annexations and conquests of land it still occupies, yet continues whining about being the victim. same with most empires at the time.
this is why the court scenario is pure stupidity, a court cannot try someone when each member of the court is more guilty of the crime than the defendant.
as for your brushing off the natives suffering and deprivation of rights, land and resources, it seems clear that you are far too scared to deal with your own nations history, and instead whine about someone else to draw attention away
@Helber Galarga.. My what a thin skin you have. When someone says no to you, you revert true to form and out come the swear words....LOL.
I think it must now be plain to you that despite your personal beliefs (which I was glad to hear), your government has acted in such bad faith in the past 30 years that we simply don't believe what your politicians say or trust your country any more. The new possible LAN flight blockade merely reinforces this view.
Actually, you'll find that most of us don't want war either, why would I want to wish to see more pictures of blooded and burned British servicemen struggling ashore in the south atlantic? We have enough to worry about with the nutters of Al-Qaeda.
I believe in deterrence, the art of making an enemy fear the consequences of an attack. HMS Dauntless will make CFK and her miltary advisors think twice before ordering an attack. HMS Dauntless won't bother your country at all, you'll never see her - she'll be hundreds of miles away from you.
@Tobias - I think you're on to a loser when trying to put the commonwealth into disrepute. It's a purely voluntary association. Countries can leave itwhenever they like (several have, like Eire and Zimbabwe). It's held in fairly high regard internationally to the extent that 2 countries have joined it that were never part of the British Empire (Mozambique and Rwanda).
Just stop your crying and complaining, ever since the INVASION in 1982 by Argentina and the subsequent defeat of Argentina by British Forces in 1982, the message was clear, The Falkland Islands are BRITISH, the people who live there want to remain that way and do not want to have so called 'talks' about Sovereignty as they do not wish to be bullied by Argentina and it is the islanders only, who can make that choice. Argentina's continuing claims and sabre rattling is making what is a simple routine deployment of a war ship (just happens to be a bloody good one) a news worthy bit of properganda. Getting all worked up is not going to change anything except make our resolve even stronger. Go to hell CFK!
Marcos Alejandro HMS crap,
Why to Argentina is everything crap, until you need toilet paper ?
Hey Brits,Britain gives over a billion in aid to India and they don't even buy you jets :-)))
[Tut tut,,,tuterly tut,,,, India has only asked for more consultation, she has NOT turned anyone down]
[ if Commonwealth is a by-product of conquest,
Then all conquered territory by Argentina must be DITTO must it not .
To be perfectly honest your point about the commonwealth was pretty pointless. so no points to you.
You must be sick as a parrot now.
I like your analogy very much ('the murder of your wife, after years of caring and providing for her health,' etc).
Is it intended as a description of Argentina's treatment of Falkland Islanders? 'We were nice to you and gave you flights and healthcare and that got us nowhere so now we're going to blockade you and wreck your economy'
That is what you're saying, isn't it?
@ 89 Monty69
That just about sums the bastards up. Ms Kirchner - German name, widow of a Swis German immigrant, with Nazi inclinations, leader of a fascist party, in a fascist state, full of flag waving morons who don't particularly care what their government does to them, so long as their leader keeps talking tough.
Wasn't it the British who built Argentina? And helped give them their last great shot at democracy. Ah well you've thrown it all away now, too busy hating, and crying over your stupid patriotic sentiment. Too dim to see the truth and too stupid to find out.
What is this pirate ship? When is it coming?
@84, 85, 86, 87, 88, and 89 :)
None of you have denied the Commonwealth is NOT a by product of conquest. You have equivocated, tergiversated, quibbled, and been the agent of probably another half dozen argument-evading verbs, but have not denied this asseveration, a fact really.
The only argument you all have come up with is The Commonwealth is voluntary, the Commonwealth has a good reputation, etc. Where exactly did I raise up the matter of the reputation or membership qualities of this body? I only pointed out the origin of the Commonewealth. Would anyone please engage me in explaining, how would such an entity have come about without a British Empire? You cannot explain it.
I agree the policy reversals are ridiculous. If I was president, I would simply drop the matter, and leave you alone. No harrassing, no talks, no relations, no trade, no exchange. Just peace and quiet for you. There are other exigencies at hand.
No, the British did not built Argentina, they profited handsomely from the country for a few decades. Some British immigrants did help, along with the other immigrants. It certainly did not promote any sort of democracy.
what exactly is your obsession with the commonwealth? the entire organisation proves beyond a shadow of a doubt by it's very existence that the British treatment of native inhabitants of territories was infinitely better than your own.
no one is defending conquest as a concept, they are merely reminding deluded idiots like you that whining about British history shows little more than how little you know or care about history in general, since nations including your own were far more bloodthirsty with their territories.
the fact that our territories are not only markedly more prosperous than their neighbors, but actively choose to remain in the commonwealth is testament to the fact that they wish to maintain old ties with us, and is also testament to the fact that they fared infinitely better than peoples in argentina and other such genocidal empires
there is no moral equitably between an empire which committed multiple genocides in each territory it conquered, and one which did not. however, no one would feel the need to point this out were you and other argentines not whining about British history in substitution for an actual argument
no one is defending conquest as a concept, they are merely reminding deluded idiots like you that whining about British history shows little more than how little you know or care about history in general, since nations including your own were far more bloodthirsty with their territories.
Too bad that Mercosur does not give a damn about that.Just look at the trade between Mercosur countries.....
uk IS out from the SA...
dreamers of the lost empire..
My point was, to recapitulate, that the Commonwealth is a celebration of imperialism. For you to accuse Argentina of celebrating conquest is thus hypocritical.
Anyone who calls Argentina an empire needs to check their history books. Or their attitude. Or their blood pressure. And pray the problem lies in one of those first three. Would hate to have to hear later they had to check their sanity :)
@94 Too bad that Mercosur does not give a damn about that.Just look at the trade between Mercosur countries.....
uk IS out from the SA...
dreamers of the lost empire..
Oh well in that case you should wave good bye to your dreams of a Mercosur and EU trade agreement then, considering UK will have a big part to play in any trading between the two regions, not to mention has control the majority of the main international trade routes in and out of the EU, via the english channel and via the entrance to the mediterranean, unless you want to take the long way round to the mediterranean and try and get passed our navy ships in the suez canal.
You know malvinero, it amazes me how you speak before thinking and them make yourself look like an idiot lol.
how exactly does the commonwealth celebrate conquest? you still seem deluded about this so let me spell this out.
-the commonwealth is made up of almost every former territory of the British empire
-they have each CHOSEN to be in the organisation
-just about each member is an independent state which celebrates it's independence
none of this is a celebration of conquest, it is just an organisation founded on historical ties between the nations.
and since argentina forcibly conquered territory from native rulers, and still holds that territory, it can indeed be considered an empire. same as contiguous land empires like China, Russia, Indian princes, the Zulus and other such African empires, Arab states and the USA. the atrocities argentina committed against those within the territories also matches up with many of the above empires.
Nah, there is no remote propinquity between Argentina and the other entities you mentioned. These killed millions in their histories, Argentina at best (the highest figures), 50 thousand. But most sources and historians go much lower, clustered around 10-20k. Thus, Argentina's conquests, quoting a prestigious cognoscenti on empires:
caused far less death and suffering than almost every other empire
And as a corollary, this makes any judgment of Argentina by outsiders impossible and impractical.
calling Argentina an empire *laughter and then facepalm*
I guess if the rationale behind adjudicating empire or not is whether the forcibly conquered territory from native rulers, well then everyone has been an empire at some point or another. However, there would still be nations that, given their historical track record at precisely conquering from others what does not belong to them originally, would have a supreme place among all empires. Sounds like....
@51 & 99 Helber,
Well Helber, for all your protestations & bullshit you still did not answer me.
lf you are not going to use military force & you are too frightened to take the case to the ICJ, then just HOW exactly do you intend to conquer OUR lslands?
Talk us to death, maybe?
Hope for Divine lntervention?
Get someone else to do your fighting for you?
Hope that one day we'll just wake up & say we want to be colonised by Argentina?
HOW, Helber, HOW?
Admit it,Helber, you know that these lslands are not yours & you'll never get them.
Btw- you ARE an empire, although not a very successful one ;-))
Patagonia is one of your colonies
The land that you stole from Paraguay is another one.
You would like to make the Falklands & the British Antarctic Territories, Argentine colonies too.
We are your stumbling block*giggle*
We are stopping you from lmperial greatness*chortle*
Tough cheese old son*snigger*
your exterminations managed to render down the aboriginal population of argentina to barely 1% of your population, which coupled with you rapidly settling millions of white settlers on their land, disenfranchising them of their resources and your continued suppression of them, all adds up to an empire in deep, deep denial.
especially as you are continuing to try and forcibly conquer more territory.
and congratulations helber. you managed to grasp in one sarcastic reply what tobias seems to still be struggling with.
All nations, all peoples and all civilizations are guilty of such barbarity throughout history, which makes modern day whining about British history by argentina all the more pathetic.
however, the fact argentina still holds onto the land it conquered during the time the UK made it's empire when the UK gave independence to it's territories, coupled with the fact that argentina is still trying to forcibly annex land while whining about how much of a victim it is, means that the supreme place of modern empires would belong to
I don't think Argentina will conquer (your wording, not mine) the islands. unlike others I would hate so Argentina conquer the islands because that would mean the use of violent force and, in principle, I am usually against that. I would hope that Argentina reclaims (my wording not yours) the islands peacefully and through diplomatic means as is being attempted ATM.
As to your claim that the islands are yours, well yes, if might makes right, they certainly are. However Argentina hopes to reclaim (my wording not yours) the islands by using right not might.
I would warmly encourage you to read a 1910, a 17,000-word memo that was commissioned by the Foreign Office to look at the historical dispute over sovereignty.
The holes in the British case shocked many officials in Whitehall. The head of the Foreign Office's American department, Gerald Spicer, wrote: From a perusal of this memo it is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the Argentine government's attitude is not altogether unjustified and that our action has been somewhat high-handed.
An assistant secretary in the same department wrote: The only question is who did have the best claim at the time when we finally annexed the islands. I think undoubtedly the United Province of Buenos Aires. And the British ambassador in Argentina, Sir Malcolm Robertson, wrote in 1927: I must confess that, until I received that memorandum myself a few weeks ago, I had no idea of the strength of the Argentine case nor of the weakness of ours.
The study was regarded as so explosive that the British government withdrew it from public view during the Malvinas war, but it's now available in the National Archives.
They are opinions, Helber.
You miss the whole point.
You cannot reclaim the lslands because to reclaim something means that you owned it in the first place.
Argentina has never owned these lslands.
Conquer would be the correct word if your country ever took control of our lslands.
You still have not answered the question, Helber.
Diplomatic means, eh?
Do you think that we are going to simply hand our lslands over to you?
You must live in a dreamworld, Helber.
Of course Argentina owned them. Have you ever bother reading history surrounding the islands? Argentina owned them for a good 10 years (from 1823). The treaty of Utrecht recognised Spanish sovereignty and this led to 40 years of Spanish occupation of the islands, which was reasserted in 1823 by Buenos Aires after its independence from Spain. Ten years later the islands were seized by force by Britain, and settlers sent out in a crude act of imperial aggression.
So you've definitely got that point wrong. So conquer is not the right word as you would have us believe. The right word is the word I used, RECLAIM.
And yes, I have answered the question. If you would bother to read, you see that I said diplomatic means.Would you prefer I reply to you in Spanish? Obviously you are having trouble understanding my posts in English *sigh*
Negotiations would be and are with the UK, so you have nothing to hand back. In any event, it will be the UK.
@ 104 Helber Galarga
You are living in cockatoo land.
We only ever send two governors to Las Malvinas and a garrison of English, they receive permission for the short stay from British Embassy. In that time our country no exist. A few months of a non existent colony, governed by a German and some English does not constitute occupation.
We did no conquer Las Malvinas, it was given to us by Papal Bull 1493 - this i learn a school. This is our right by God to own Las Malvinas. Also proximity, as Las Malvinas is closer Argentina than Chile as you see on all maps.
All these arguments are superfluous, as already our government claim islands and they have Argentine administration but they are occupied by illegal pirates who have been there for almost 200 years.
Britain first claim islands in 1594 but this is date we do not use as at that time no one lived here.
Even though they have been living on islands for almost 200 years they have no right as our government say they is pirates. This i believe because i put country before human any time.
in 1970's my father responsible for helping to disappear many thousands of political traitors from this country but his work was undo by failiur of our coward military to win Las Mavlinas battle. But always remember that parents of disapeared were praising their government when we re-occupied Las Malvinas, this is proof that people believe in our country more than they care for their family. This is what make Argentine such strong country.
We can be strong again, with all our might and all our passion directed at Las Malvinas and ignore all our problem at home, we can again be strong.
Just got a call from the Top brass, Argentina just ordered 100 F-35 and 5 B-1b.....
If we read 105 Filippo then I think we can all understand the 'mind set' of many Argentineans. Deluded, brainwashed and still living under Papal law. What chance will we ever have in bringing them to heal with the truth? I shudder to think any more about it!
Right 107, as if anyone with half a lobe does not see Filippo has been plastering the website and is an obvious double-agent troll.
But let's not let the facts get in the way of the anti-Argentina claque.
The opposing side have enough justifications to launch genuine criticism at Argentina, but still feel the urge to exaggerate their claims, make up facts at will, and even create fake accounts such as Filippo, so then serious contributors deliberately pretend ignorance to get the green light and launch additional philippics (pun intended), at their target.
How pathetic is that.
For such grown up, first world societies so superior in evolution to the argies, you are all proving exceedingly juvenile and unremarkably predictable of the lower denominators of human nature. :)
I believe that Papal Bull also gave S Georgia/S Sandwich islands to the Portuguese, you are dropping your claim to those territorys then.
What you need to understand about God given rights, is that God is a Protestant.
So if the Emmisary of the Anti christ in Rome said its is yours, then obviously God means for us to have it, simples.
Breaking new just in reports that Argentina have sent a fleet of bathtubs to the Pine Glacier in Antarctica that is breaking away and that is 19 miles long. Rumours suggest that the Wicked Witch of the South has given up all hope of convincing the world that the Falkland's belong to Argentina and therefore is concentrating on claiming the large 19 mile long Iceberg as property of Argentina.
I can announce with clarity that on board the small bathtubs are a contingent of Argentine Bloggers who regularly offer their biased opinions on these pages.
A passing Royal Navy Warship who has reported to have seen this small Armada of bathtubs are closely monitoring this extraordinary scene unfolding in the cold waters of the Antarctic.
Reports have also come in that the same Royal Navy Warships have reportedly listened to radio communication from Buenos Aires from no other than the Wicked Witch Of The South who it seems is getting more and more excited by the hour by this small invasion force of bathtubs.
By radio communication I can reveal what was told to me from the warship that is non-other than HMS Dauntless whose Captain told me that he had never seen anything like it in his life. It’s an extraordinary scene unfolding before our very eyes, they are pedalling like lunatics. The Captain of HMS Dauntless told me that as they passed by HMS Dauntless he shouted to them to stop this madness and haven’t they heard that it was just one big chunk of Ice that will be melting soon.
They shouted back that Christina would never lie to them and go away you pirate pigs, with that he turned his ship around and sailed into the sunset leaving behind a very confused bunch of bathtub sailor bloggers.
Ah well, looks like I had better go and pack my troubles in my old kit bag and smile, whats the point of worrying... as it seems that Duke William has it all under control while he Re-Conquers the islands, just in case Argentina forgot that they were sent home 30 years ago by Her Majesties Forces and the Duke's Uncle Andrew. I remember thinking at the end of the war as a casualty on the SS Uganda Hospital Ship, 'how the hell did we manage to do that?, I should have realised that we were blessed by our secret weapon, killer Royals. Yes, I know, very silly of me to be so funny with all this serious debate going on, however, you got to laugh at the idiots trying to get political bonus points out of all this. William is a junior pilot on rescue helecopters, hardly a weapon of mass destruction. Please no more about him or the destroyer being a ruse to taunt you all to battle or we will taunt you a second time and fart in your general direction, peeg dogs!
I can see what the priorities are in the forum ....basically Filippo is more important than my posting at @ 106, freaking amazing ! :-))
[ if Commonwealth is a by-product of conquest,
Then all conquered territory by Argentina must be DITTO must it not .
@112 Scipio Africanus
Wot! as well as the Carrier, 3 Destroyers and 2 subs, already on order with Airfix.
i have no idea why or what some of you people on here are going on about , you both , british and argentine speak in such jingoistic terms , our ships this, your history that, i doubt if any of you will ever fight in a conflict and I hope none of you ever do , but its your miguided stupid vitriolic comments that might just ensure that again you probably wont , but some one else will , to achieve what , at a time when we should be looking to the future and prosperity for all people on this planet ,as lets face it this rock in space is F***ed we still squabble over a barren rock .... or is it oil que /what
or is it oil que /what
No, to be fair to both sides this was going on long before the oil appeared.
It has however greatly increased the temperature on the Argie side, as far as the British are concerned it belongs to the Islanders.
..and you reckon Helber is in cloud cuckoo land! OMG!
Your attempt to draw a distinction between the falklanders and the mainland UK does'nt wash. No politician over here would even think about talking to you. It would be political suicide. Such a person would be viewed as a spineless,moronic coward to equal the great Neville Chamberalin, previous holder of the most useless article to ever hold the post of PM.
@Tobias. No one ever denied that the Commonwealth grew out of our Empire, which was indeed mostly founded by conquest.
Those were different times and all nations in that era did the same as us, including yours.
What we are proud of is that after the collapse of Empire we have managed to have generally positive relations with so many of these countries, and have encouraged them in growing good governance and the rule of law. If you think that we are'nt aware of our history, you never met any guardian readers, they love to bang on about how evilwe were.
You're attempts at conquering / annexing the falklands are an example of ongoing empire building..................
HMS Dauntless is amazing.
Sensible reply. It is positive that there is fruitful rapprochement between the Commonwealth nations.
No need to get snarky, Helber.
You STILL have not satisfactory answered the question.
How are you, diplomatically, going to conquer OUR lslands?
1) you say that you won't use force(you would if you could).
2) you will NOT go to court(ICJ).
3) How do you propose to get us to just roll over & let you tickle our tummies?
Answer(as you won't!):- you cannot.
Of course Argentina does NOT own these lslands(despite all the lies that you were taught at school).
l suggest that YOU read a decent history book, definitely NOT an Argentine one.
The UK claimed the Falklands in 1765, long, long before Argentina even existed.
And no you did NOT inherit them from Spain.
Spain did not even recognise you until about 1859.
So you can *sigh* as much & as often as you like but it doesn't change the fact that Argentina does not & never did own the Falklands.
Btw- don't waste your valuble time responding to Filippo.
He is a British troll.♥
You got it brother :-)
HMS Dauntless is amazing
So is the diamond
I am still wanting to know if Argentina will boycott the 2012 Olympics?
Shame the International Olympics Committee won't let us ban them before they decide to boycott!
We always boycott the Olympics. We don't care about them.
Tobias - the only Olympics Argentina didn't play in was the 1980 Moscow, 1912 Stockholm and 1904 St. Louis games. So no you don't always boycott the Olympics.
Though I think you probably should this year. We could do with a laugh! :)
What I mean is people in Argentina don't watch the Olympics much at all. Like Americans don't watch the World Cup.
Argentina does not do well in Olympic sports, and there isn't a lot of interest in such sports outside swimming and boxing, and no government support. Team sports rule in the country (football, rugby, basketball, polo, pato, volleyball, etc)
It's a shame the Olympics is not more supported by the Argentinian government. I suppose paint throwing and flag burning are Argentine national sports too?
9 Marcos Alejandro (#) do you know how dumb you sound? Argentina's navy doesn't have anything even close to the British HMS Dauntless. Argentina, what a sorry sorry country. Millet USA
I agree, but that part of not being a fully developed nation.
I believe paint throwing and tire burning were admitted by the IRC (International Riot Committee), as sports in the upcomming 2013 games in Kandahar. They will take place right after the sharp-shooting dark-looking migrants 100 meter dash, and the sack and burn down the whole darn country in just one week marathon.
It was so funny to see people on the streets setting fire to the Union Flags.
It's not even found to be offensive. If Argentinians want to continue perhaps we could start selling you some more flags. We can laugh and make money at the same time :)
You are a risk taker my friend, good luck with your new enterprise. From what little I have read of that industry, your total potential market of Union Jack burners is approximately 26 people.
Helber, baby. Where are you?
And last but not least! Admiral Sir Alan West was 100% right when he suggested that a nuclear submarine be sent to the Falklands!
MOD has now improved Sir Alan's suggestion. Bravissimo!
What the Admiral said was ”as nuclear subs are most often already there, prehaps they should show themselves once in a while so everyone (Especialy Argentina) would know they were there”. A more visible deterent.
Like it, you seem to be developing a pecularly English sense of humour, check your eyes are not turning blue as well.
I admit it, I appreciate British humor, or Swedish Humor, or as called in Argentina tea time humor. Perspicacious observation.
you need a sense of humour , to build a holy ship with holes in it .
There's an ongoing “continuity of government” claim by argentinians, based on a supposed “continuation of the Spanish Viceroyalty of the River Plate”.
When “argentina” (or whatever name it was called) repudiated the Spanish Empire, in the “revolution of May 1810”, it effectively ceased to “belong” to Spain, right?
Many of the “powers” of the Spanish government which was based in Buenos Aires were transferred to Montevideo, which remained loyal to Spain at least until november 1811. So we can say that effective Spanish rule continued to exist over the South Altantic (Falkland Islands included) from the harbour of Montevideo. To be clear, Spain continued to exist in the South Atlantic while “argentina” or whatever entity had already parted ways with her.
And beyond that subtlety, the Falkland Islands had always had direct dependency from the “Capitanía de Puerto” of Montevideo during the effective rule of the “Virreinato del Rio de la Plata”, never from “Buenos Aires”. This Capitanía kept existing in Montevideo after “Revolución de mayo”.
Therefore, should the Falkland Islands be “Spanish”, the “successor” would be whatever authority you'd recognise to today's Harbour of Montevideo (be it the remains of the viceroyalty, the Federal League, the Cisplatina province, the Estado Oriental, or nowadays Oriental Republic of Uruguay - if you'd like to think of such thing as continuity of government or legal entities...), but never argentina. As a part of the viceroyalty of the River Plate, argentina has no better claim to the islands than Bolivia, Paraguay or Chile
However, and for the best interest of Uruguay (considering old history, recent history and current events concerning argentina constantly bullying Uruguay), dear Falklanders don't bother to hand the Falklands back to us, we are happy having you and the British Empire in the South Atlantic, together with (whenever possible) the British fleet showing around in the South Atlantic and the River Plate.
Argentines are not very bright, given the choice between fascism and democracy they have chosen fascism every time. Given the choice between American hegemony and being an independent nation, they have chosen America hegemony every time, characterised by its attendant secret police (NSA, CIA, Special Forces and other such gestapo trappings, including their own) and an attendant military or militant right government.
Given the choice between being diplomacy and child like spats of anger and lies, they choose child like spats of anger and lies.
Argentina has never recovered from being a wannabe be Axis power in the 1930's. Argentina's version of fascism (like that of Spain's) remained undefeated by WW2 Allied powers. It hadn't even had to fight a real civil war to maintain power, just murder 50,000-100,000 of its own unarmed political activists and we all know how easy that was for their brave and heroic military men, like their hero Commander Astiz.
It took the Falklands War to shake the Argentines into some semblance of reality. Remove their military government and see the Americans as something other than a benevolent uncle, rather more like a the uncle you kept your children away from, you know the one in the old mack who always had his hands in his pockets and a grimace on his lips.
But within a few short years a girl came alone, a wannabe Eva Peron and took them all the way back to year zero! And the Argentine people gave up their collective memory and switched back to servile child.
In the West it's very difficult to understand how the average Argentine thinks. We have to imagine how our own per-adolescent children think and we can then get into their mindset. Give them a box of toy soldiers & some flags to play with and they are as happy as pie, tell them that they can't own Tracey Island though and they will cry their eyes out.
At school, the teachers would always tell them “Tracey Island” was their's. Even though the reality was, it wasn't!
THANK YOU , All South America, Caribean Commonwealth Countries, Unites States, Russia, China, All AFrica, Some asian countries and now IRELAND which we share the same hero of Lft.Brown. to support Malvinas Argentinas. THe empire is falling down in a decadence kindom ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd3o21MW2vI
Thank you nitreous for being so stupid.
lt gives me something to laugh at♥
You put forward the the Common Wealth was born out of conflict.
So was Argentina. In fact so was every nation in the world both past and present. This is true from Ancient times all the way through to the present day. Tribes, Nations, Empires, they all rise and eventually fall, and long after we are all but a footnotes in history it will still be the same.
I therefore fail to see your point?
very funny ha ha,
you missed mongolia .
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