MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain committed to best UK relations but asks for Gibraltar sovereignty talks
Spain has formally asked Britain to reopen talks over the sovereignty of Gibraltar. The petition was made by Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Garcia-Margallo shortly after UK Europe Minister David Lidington told an audience in Madrid that Britain would not discuss sovereignty against Gibraltar’s wishes. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules98.48% of the people in Gibraltar said NO in the referendum of 2002 to Spain with a voter turnout of 87.9% and an electorate of 20,678.
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish, just like the Argentinians, are having a laugh!
Is Cameron is sending Williams to Gibraltar with warships?
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another routine for the RAF search and rescue teams...
Spain is more civilised than Argentina at discussing sovereignty. Both Spain and the United Kingdom are in the European Union. Discussions are simple and straight forward compared to the incompetence and amateurism shown by south American leaders.
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Marcus, do some research on the matter before posting idiotic comments. If you had you'd have known that Britian has a major naval present and naval base in Gibralter. So asking if we are going to be sending warships there is a a bit of a dumb question, especially when you guys claim the Lusty was repaired their in 1982 for imaginitive damager from what of your plane in the falklands war, prior to it returning to britian.
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0P.s. am sure Prince willaim and many other members of the royal family have visited Gibralter too.
Spain is 300 miles closer to Gibraltar, that you are to the Falklands,
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet she refrains from anything more that egoism,
You should learn.
.
4Coffeboy, Where's Gibralter and who is Prince willaim?
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do some research on the matter before posting idiotic comments.
Is Cameron sending Williams to Gibraltar with warships
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no
William went to the Falklands by plane, and will be flying helicopters
Warships are for sailors, are they not?
,
The Earl and Countess of Wessex will be visiting Gibraltar this year as part of the Diamond Jubilee celebrations. 2012 is going to be a fantastic year!
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0another colony which should deliver to its rightful owners, why not send the principito willaim to Gibraltar with warships, ha, ha,!!!only with weapons for the sovereignties that are not theirs! bullies, pirates!!
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kiwisarg - Again, why do never use any facts? What proves Gibraltar is not a British Overseas Colony? If you do not have any evidence then why do you feel it isn't?
Feb 03rd, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For your information, we don't need to send warships to Gibraltar. Spain is a fairly civilised country (as they are a member of the European Union and also a modern developed country). There is no military threat from Spain as they have not tried to invade Gibraltar recently. Argentina is obviously different. The RAF have a permanent base in Gibraltar, just like the Falkland islands.
Your argument is fairly poor until you relate it to facts. You may like to try again...
Europe civilized? Only by the point of a gun. You guys cannot change 2000 years of barbarism and 200 million dead in two generations. Seriously, it's been barely 60 years!!
Feb 04th, 2012 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I say this not to insult you all, but you insist on this supercilious attitude when speaking of Argentina, when likely most of your grandparents remember the REAL Europe, the one that always was: a hellhole.
One from which millions escaped to this side of the word.
Stay humble guys.
“Seriously, it's been barely 60 years!! ”
Feb 04th, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0And yet if we mention how Argentina was throwing it's people out of jets a mere thirty years ago “That was decades ago get over it”
Double standards much?
No, that's only your poor discernment of context at work. I was merely answering the complaints of Argentina not behaving like Spain and Britain, and the insinuations there implied. The double standard came (as usual) from the other side of the Atlantic.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0If our European guests (this is a new world website after all), remained sensible and were not so quick to pull the trigger of a gun with an opposite-directional double-barrel, you would not get so bloodied. :p
@Marcus #6 and repeating what you said and trying to tell me to do some research, when it is clear their is a major british naval base and the royal family have been to gibralter many times and Prince william and his wife will go there later this year, proves i was correct. As for where gibralter is. Well its near spain but spain ceded it to britian by treaty - oh wait you like treaties don't you marcus considering your whole claim is based on the false believe that spain had soveriegnty of the falklands and you inherited them, where no treaty between argentina and spain exists that says spain ceded the falkland islands to you. In fact they left in 1808 leaving a plague supporting their claim for sovereignty. The US declared the islands free of government (therefore meaning no state had sovereignty of them 1821, that combined with the united provinces assetion of sovereignty led to britain sending a military force to expel your garrison peacefully, and britain was perfectly entitled to do so as britain never ceded sovereignty of the islands since their original claim in 1765 which they reasserted in 1776 and restablished in 1833.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Tobias
You calling us barbarians? Thats rich coming from an argentina whom until only in recent history slaugther millions of native south americans and killed 30,000 of its own people as recently as the 1980's alot of whom were thrown out off a plane at 10,000 feet alive and concious. And don't even think about playing we were under as junta card, as thats not only tiring but pathetic. It also makes you hypocrites when you try and lane the blame of our ancestors actions on to modern brits. Happy to blame us for our ancestors actions yet not willing to take the blame when it comes to your own parents and grand parents, well thats just truely pathetic and shows what sad arrogant selfish hypocritical scum of the earth argentines like yourself really are. Your not even worth pissing on, even if you were on fire.
Teaboy,
Feb 04th, 2012 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm growing tired of your European ignorance. Tautology, if there ever was one.
You guys started it on this article. Get over it.
European ignorance?
Feb 04th, 2012 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0That is many countries you are painting with the same brush there.
Teaboy2 - you are totally right! They seemed to have failed to have made it to the 21st Century, their political understanding seems to be stuck in the 1980s.
I cannot paint with the same brush what already shines colorfast with the same hue.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0When Europeans desist pontification from the Pantheon at the hilltop to those of us in the subjacent vales of turpitude, then I'll stop my captious attitude. Since by the way that citadel at the summit—and the message itself—are flyblown by arrant hypocrisy.
Europe donates £65m a year to Argentina.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know why they do it?
I would be embarrassed about being a charity case and not being able to support yourselves!
I think it is part of the return on investment after Argentina saved Spain and parts of France from famine in the 1940s and 1950 (Evita's trip), gave Italy what amounts to a couple billion in the 1920s in aid, and provided Britain with cheap and delicious sustinence in trade from the late 1800s until Britain stabbed Argentina in the back in the 1940s thru pressure from the USA (Marshall Plan).
Feb 04th, 2012 - 02:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just getting our money back for all the help.
Cheap and delicious. Just like produce today you mean? Massive deforestation enables the planting of GM soya crops. No wonder Argentina has environmental problems!
Feb 04th, 2012 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Tobias “I'm growing tired of your European ignorance. Tautology, if there ever was one. You guys started it on this article. Get over it.”
Feb 04th, 2012 - 03:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0My ignorance, your probably the moust deluded selfrightous ignorant prat i have come across, as its obvious Argentina is not the good world saving country your making it out to be. And not only that reread the comments you will see it was marcus and kiwi that started it off in this argument, or is this a case of argentina can say what it wants about us brits and we do not have the right to respond just like you believe the falkland islanders do not have any rights. ALso i again refer you to your comments about babarism, when its clear your countries not flaming angel either and have butchered millions.
As for a couple of billion in aid to italy and a few millions or so in spain during the famine. Lol thats not even a pocket full of change compared the the trillions britian has spent not only rebuilding europe and asian nations after WW I and WWII but also in aid to developing countries annually. £7 million of our taxs payers cash goes in aid to argentina each year, and your making us out to be the bad guys.
What make me laugh is you think your smart, yes you can spell nice words and speak good english but i can tell you now, you have a hell of alot to learn about international law and respect of other peoples rights. YOur what i call a toffee noised twat, i.e. a person from a rich family that was spoilt and shield from the realities of the real world who then thinks hes better then the rest and knows everything, when he really knows sweet F all about anything. And you know what i don't give a rats arse what you think of me, because i know i am 1000 times better than you, oh and i made myself a millionaire and did not have a rich family to provide me too. What have you done in live other than been a toffee noise posh twat?
@Ben30
Feb 04th, 2012 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said a couple days ago to another compatriot of yours, a European bemoaning hewed and long annihilated forests? Have you no shame sir? :)
@Teaboy
I'm very appreciative of the complements. I haven't said anything about Argentina here, if you read the vast majority of my comments.
You are wrong on your history, wrong on your statistics, wrong on your opinions, wrong on your biography of me. At least you are consistent.
LOL at Teaboy2 losing the plot completely.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for letting us know you are a millionaire. That is extremely relevant to the debate at hand.
Additionally, my deepest gratefulness to you for informing us that, according to an unbiased observes such as yourself, you are '1000 times better than” tobias. Again, I really cannot fathom how the debate could have progresses with that invaluable contribution by you.
So we now know that you are a millionaire, and better than tobias. Are there any other riveting contributions such as the ones above you'd like to share in order for the debate to continue?
FFS *roll eyes* You've just succeeded at showcasing yourself as the most arrogant, self-righteous excuse for a human being on this thread. But, hey, don't let me stop you! Carry on
@11
Feb 04th, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0One from which millions escaped to this side of the word
Croatia seeks extradition of Nazi in Argentina
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/77173.stm
Adolf Otto Eichmann
Josef Rudolf Mengele
Ratlines (German: Rattenlinien) were a system of escape routes for Nazis and other fascists fleeing Europe at the end of World War II. These escape routes mainly led toward havens in South America, particularly Argentina, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay, and Chile. Other destinations included the United States and perhaps Canada and the Middle East. There were two primary routes: the first went from Germany to Spain, then Argentina; the second from Germany to Rome to Genoa, then South America; the two routes “developed independently” but eventually came together to collaborate.[1]
Spain could show good faith by “returning” Ceuta & Melilla to Morocco.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Or do they want all three disputed territories for themselves!.
Teaboy,
lt doesn't matter about spelling etc.
Don't let them get to you. l enjoy your posts.
You & briton are refreshingly “countrypeople” The Yeomen of Olde England. The men who stood fast at many a battle.
Never did have much time for smooth, silver tongued “sophisticated”people who use a lot of words.........just like politicians
Don't tell them too much(says me who have posted far too much personal information here!).
When the dust has cleared, we are right & they are wrong.
We own the Falklands & they do not.
Quite simple, really.♥
”Mariano Rajoy wanted “...progress in everything related to Gibraltar, which must include dialogue with the UK on issues of sovereignty,” MUST INCLUDE! Cheeky beggars!
Feb 04th, 2012 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Learning from the Argies now, eh? At least 1 in 4 of the workforce with no work, economy down the tubes, sounds like a distraction ploy to me, just like CFK and the Falklands (there are no Malvinas).
The greatest achievment of the EU is that Europe today, despite its history, is no longer a place where war is and beligerance is accepted as a means of settling disputes. The rights of people to decide there own future are considered paramount.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This was clearly seen over Cyprus (Greece & Turkey) and the former Yougoslav republics, where certain conditions had to be met for entry negotiation to begin.
Spains position on this issue ”any bilateral discussion on sovereignty with Britain “must have no limit on its content”, is simply un-sustainable, and will probably be challenged by the Gib Government in several EU instutions.
No prises for guessing the outcome.
@tobia - Wrong on my history, statistics and biograpthy of you am i. Prove it, where was i wrong about history, statistics or my biography about you, note my bigrapthy about you was not a biograpthy at all but a personal opinion of you which is my perogative, there can not be wrong. As for not saying anything about argentina, you have been flaming comparing europe and its histroy or bararism to that of argentinas history of saving spaing from famine and lending italy nearly 2 billion in to days money. All your posts have been about argentina being better than europe or europe being the worse place on earth compared to every where else.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Helber # 23 - No i am not losing it Helber at all, I have stated it many times on here that i am a millionaire business man same with the fact i am dyslexic, if your re-read my post i proceeded to ask Tobia just what he has achived in his life, and reason why is because as far as am concerned tobia is just a person who grew up part of a rich family, was spoilt, learnt english and a few fancy words, but other than that has achieved nothing but living of his parents, like all toffee nose twats do. Was i saying i was better than tobias as a person, par se? No just that i was better than him as a person as i have achieved more in my life. Why am i 1000 times better than tobias, well thats simple i respect other peoples rights to self determination and don't go about supporting colonisation of an island that does not wish to be argentine, nor do i go aroung belittling other countries that have done more for world peace, given more aid than many other countries by trying to make out an other county like argentina has done more for the world when it has done the exact opposite. Nor do i go round accusing others of starting an argument, when it was clear in this comment section that the argument was started by marcus and Kiwi. The arrogant selfrightous human beings here are argentines
@isolde #25
Thank you, thats much appricated.
28 Teaboy2
Feb 04th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what has happened with Tobias, he is usually a fairly level headed guy, but just recently seems to be a different person.
Perhaps it's a shift change problem, but I wouldn't let it worry you. :o)
@ChrisR
Feb 04th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0tobias is merely here to whine about how offended he is when Britons are mean about argentina, a matter he thinks is more pressing and important then both the basic human rights of the islanders, argentines spineless hypocrisy, and the horrific ordeal of native argentines.
plus having your nation crumble around you while you frantically type to defend it is not good for one's stability, especially when the bloodthirsty mobs in the street are also more concerns with whining about the Falklands
also kind of an odd question but have you ever seen the film “the room”?
Teaboy,
Feb 04th, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not a dumb person. You are fully cognizant how you bruit about figures like “millions of natives killed”, “100,000 disappeared”... Anyone on this website realizes your statistics are either premeditated claptrap or otherwise spur of the moment opprobrium. I have read them time and time again, and the reason I have neither disputed them directly nor disabused you from your feeble mathematics, is because arguing the actual numbers of dead people is an asinine, ghoulish endeavor, one which does not redound to ameliorate the heinous events at the core described.
Whether 15,000 dead or millions dead, the ineffable horror was the same; therefore, I rather dredge up other plutonian chapters of history wholesale. Because each individual event has equal absolute immorality standing on its own, no matter how many of you attempt to extenuate them with the lurid and hollow relativism of body for body tabulations. And if none of you believe me on this point, I invite you to approach a victim of any historical crime and ask them if the historical event in which their loved one(s) perished has less intrinsic worth juxtaposed to the more iniquitous tragedies of humanity.
Teaboy, and everyone else:
You will learn that I make arguments within arguments, and at times argument within those, to stratagem and prove a larger conviction planned all along; I am very recursive in my methods and my longanimity in debates is significant.
I shall address this larger point of mine and the conclusion I draw from it in a near-future response, as I do not have enough character space to elucidate my peroration here.
@31
Feb 04th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not have enough character space to elucidate my peroration here.
I hope this helps Toby
C is for contrafibularity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08
My larger point, which I tested and proved is this: many of you are using patent, ponderable double-standards. Allow me to expand:
Feb 04th, 2012 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0a. Virtually all of you—perspicuously or desultorily—have laid the case that Argentina is not trustworthy on the Falklands due to past and present events. And have further adduced that years, likely decades, of good behavior would need to ensue in order for this condition to change. That is fair observation (notice I have never oppugned it).
b. Those of you who have engaged me in the economic debates have also touched on the same theme: that in order for investors and even locals to trust Argentina with investments, years and years would have to elapse for confidence to return.
c. For those who have sparred with me in the “atrocity index” debates, it is also the case that you have built: Argentina was committing abhorrent crimes only 30 years ago, therefore it is to be trusted less in human rights than European nations.
What is the overarching theme here? Trust, and father Time.
As another contributor wrote, “What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”. The United Kingdom and Europe hold two millennia of belligerence, treachery, torture, conquest, racism, fundamentalism, murder, genocide, holocaust. Not 20 years, not 200 years, 2000. For contributors from these nations to sustain moral superiority is preposterous. It's hypocrisy. It's wrong (and the United States continues to this day, so they are beneath even this doleful picture).
Because you see, to expunge 2000 years of savagery, 60 years do not suffice. It is an affront to the hundred millions dead across Planet Earth from European policies, for such a lenient adjudication to be made. Especially when many of you lay blame on me for the actions of my prior generation, calling on me to attone for it.
Europe and it's people will have to prove a couple of CENTURIES of peace and debellicization (to borrow a British neologism), before WE will ever trust you. Good afternoon.
“ before WE will ever trust you. Good afternoon.”
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't need, want or even care if YOU trust us.
Quite simple, really.
Which explains your sordid history as a culture around the globe. Thank you for superadding to my indisputable conclusion.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your forgetting something Tobias, its us brits that now stand up for peoples rights, it is argentina that is using our pass wrong doings as an arguement to strengh their case as to why we should give up the islands, where at the same time forget the their own countries wrong doings. You yourselve are now trying to say it is us that is using double standards in our reasoning. When we are clearly respecting a fundamental human right granted to all peoples under the UN Charter. I therefore fail to see how we are guilty of double standards just because of our past actions that our ancestors were responisble for, when argentina itself is completely ignoring the islanders fundamental right to self determination and is therefore guilty of attempting to commit the same acts they have committed in the past in an attempt to claim land from the people that live on said land with no respect for those peoples wishes to not be part of argentina.
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May i remind you, that the majority of modern day argentines are of spanish, european decent, so when you refer to the historic history of torture and bararism by european peoples ancestors, you are also accusing your own ancestors of it too. But because you do not realise that, it clearly makes you a hypocrite and shows just how arrogant you are about your own ancestral histroy, espcially when your boasting about british and european history of abuse, when you yourself are just as much and ancestor of those people living in the time of such abuses. Which just goes to prove how stupid your comments really are, as your clearly try to make us out as the bad guys because of our ancestors actions, when you share the same flaming european ancestors. Pot calling the kettle black tobias.
I will be more than glad to return the discussion to the Falklands, on knowledge it is advantageous to you:
Feb 04th, 2012 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is wrong here. I have said it before. We are wrong because even if our version of history is correct, I focus on the living people today. They are of British descent, let them remain so. So yes, I admit my country's current position is one I do not agree with and contest. To be honest, many argentines who live away from the coastline do not care about the Falklands, as an issue or as a location.
The only reason these other sideshows are brought up is because yes, Argentina shows hypocrisy on the matter, and because the British want to have it both ways in saying the islands are British territory, but simultaneously that British history is not relevant because the issue is the Falklanders. That does not fly either. Either they are British or they are not.
For the record, I do not acknowedge Europan ancestry. The new generation of Argentines are not like the past ones which showed pride in that heritage. We wish to disown it.
On the other hand, like another article said, many in this new generation also don't care about the Falklands.
Perhaps in 50 years your dreams will come true: Argentina will be run by people who renounce to the islands, and who also cut off any links and relationship to Europe for good.
Gibraltar Espanol!
Feb 04th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ceuta Espanol!
Melilla Espanol!
End of!
You can go on forever saying and talking about human rights and rights for self determination but you never talk about the ethnic cleansing that the british did when Gibraltar was ceded to the United Kingdom (treaty of Utrect 1713) worth having a read before you keep on reclaiming more land from the sea .
of nice try robbing our black swan the court was in our favour for a reason tryoing to wipe out uk national debt using spanish property . goodbye and cheery ooooo
@ tobias
Feb 04th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The uk made it clear the islands will remain british for so long as the islanders wish it. Its been that way since 1982. Its not the territory were beothered about but the wishes of the people that live on it. We have made it clear many times, if the islanders wished to be independant or become argentine we would support their wishes. So i fail to see where you get that “britain wants to have it both ways” from.
As for your disowning you ancestors and your/their history - sorry but i fail to see how that makes it right for you to still accuse us of guilt over the actions of our ancesters. We ourselves have disapproved of the abuses our anchesters committed but we still support the good that they did. You simply can not disown your ancesterol history and spains history, just because you are now argentina. After all, your country is a result of spanish colonisation and there is no denying that or that of the actions of argentina. End of the day the world has moved on from the actions of the past. So why you brought it up in the first place whilst conviently now claiming to disown your own history and that of your ancestors actions, whilst still using that of our history and ancestors actions against us - is beyond me.
@28 (ie. Teabyoy2)
Feb 04th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I still don't understand why you have to go into the private sphere and ask “if your re-read my post i proceeded to ask Tobia just what he has achieved in his life”? In other words, why can you not limit your engagement to the poster's arguments rather than the poster's personal/private life?
You then go on and state “Was i saying i was better than tobias as a person, par se? No just that i was better than him as a person as i have achieved more in my life.”
Again, why is it important for you to go into this private realm that has nothing to do with the debate at hand? Besides, who cares (obviously you do) if you 'have achieved more in your life”?
In much the same sense, I do not see any need for you to share that you are a millionaire and dyslexic. That does not given anything to the argument at hand. I am sure you are able to see this clearly yourself.
Can I recommend we engage each others with the issues as hands rather than our personal lives?
@Helber - if you do not understand, then i suggest you look at Tobias post #15 - Personal insults and wrongfully accusing me and others of having started this argument, when marcus and kiwi with their original comments started the arguements, not to mention tobias being the one to twist the argument even further. Therefore Tobias with his insults made it personal and simply reminded me of toffee noise twats, who think they are clever, just because he knows good english and a few fancy words. My reference to me being a millionaire was not ment as an insult but a point that i and many overs are perfectly capable of being better than toffee noise twats. My statement that i was a 1000 times better than him was not as a person but as an a person that was an achiever. Hence why i asked what he had done in life.
Feb 05th, 2012 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for “Can I recommend we engage each others with the issues as hands rather than our personal lives?” I agree - but its impossible to that when the issue is of such a personal importance to all people of both sides now isn't it!!
Not to mention they is no issue at hand other than the imaginary issue that argentina dreamt up over the falklands, thats they believe gives them the right to take something that is not theirs with no regard as to the rights of the islanders that live there.
Therefore this is personal, between us british, islanders and that of you argentines and anyone that supports argentinas attempt to colonise an islands and a people that have made it clear they want their islands to remain british.
And as for you saying their is no need for me to share private bits about myself like myself being dyslexic, well your wrong. The amounts of times i have been mocked for poor grammar or spelling and have had to remind people i am dyslexic on this site is evidence of that. And why should i not share bits about myself, its a free world and its my choice to do so.
I am merely suggesting that we debate and discuss our different points of view as adults. I realise, as you correctly point, that this is indeed a hot topic and precisely because it is one, I recommend we do not make it personal.
Feb 05th, 2012 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do not think there is any harm in my advice...
As for your contention that “its a free world and its my choice to do so”, you are indeed correct! If it gives you pleasure to make observations about your personal life (sometimes warranted as when you have to defend yourself from spineless accusations of having a typo; others, I believe not so warranted as, what I believe is, flaunting you are millionaire) please do! Now, as far as I am concerned, getting personal in our exchanges is an invitation to a downward spiral into hell and the only thing we miss out on is a good debate.
BTW, I read post #15 as you suggested. Now, if an accusation by someone of you being “European ignorant' can be construed as personal attack or insult, well then we might be in trouble.
Obviously the issue of Malvinas is indeed very important to us all. Otherwise I many of us wouldn't be posting here at all. Please do not dismiss Argentines interest in the topic. By all means, share with us how important it is to you and why, but do not speak in Argentines behalf and dismiss our interest by saying ”imaginary issue that argentina dreamt up over the falklands”. You have your arguments and Argentines have theirs. But believe me, there is more than dreaming going on here for all involved.
The thing is Teaboy, Argentina is not even close to being majority “Spanish”.
Feb 05th, 2012 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0The thing is Teaboy, Argentina is not even close to being majority “Spanish
Feb 05th, 2012 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0According to David Levinson “Afro Argentines number about 50, nearly all of whom now live in Buenos Aires. Argentina did not import large numbers of slaves, and the Afro Argentine population today is descended from freed slaves and slaves who escaped to Argentina from Bolivia, Paraguay, and Brazil. As part of the Europeanization program of the late 1880s, Afro Argentines were pushed off their land. African identity was defined as inferior, and warfare, disease, and intermarriage decimated the population. Although largely ignored and relegated to low-level jobs, the Afro Argentine community continues to function as a distinct community in Buenos Aires.”[31]
Criticisms of the national census state that data has historically been collected using the category of national origin rather than race in Argentina, leading to undercounting Afro-Argentines and mestizos.[32] The 1887 Buenos Aires census was the last in which blacks were included as a separate category.[33]
@ stick up your @rse,
Feb 05th, 2012 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0mate if you are going to cut and paste as you've done, show some decency and respect to the authors and also provide the sources. I am referring to numbers 31, 32, and 33.
Don't be a thief!!
@ stick up your @rse
Feb 05th, 2012 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0King of the one liners
@Helber
Feb 05th, 2012 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For one i was not stating i was a millioniare in order to fluant it, but purely to show what i have achieved in my life by becoming a self made millionaire in comparison to that of what Tobias may or may not have achieved in life. Taking my statements out their original context and trying to turn them it to nothing but a boast of my wealth is not going to help get this debate back to a more civilised form, now is it? If i wanted to flaunt my wealth i would be boasting about how i made it, how much i have, and how much i spend in any one day when i go out treating myself and what i spend it on, but i do not as i do not flaunt my wealth at all. Only time when i do mention it is when others have actually asked me. But that is not boasting/flaunting, thats merely being polite and responding to their questions. If i wanted to i could tell the world how i made my wealth, perhaps a biograpthy, but i prefer to be down to earth and not step in to the lime light, but eitherway why should i hide the fact am a millionaire through my own hard work, why should i be ashamed to tell people i am rich through my own hard work and determination. Only jealous people see it as flaunting and boasting, others see it as a sign of hope, because if i can do then so can they. In fact i help people everyday not just to make money but to resolve their money problems or other consumer or legal problems, i help those unemployed willing to but in some hard work to reap the financial benefits of such work too, if they have the will and determination to follow my guidance. So do i flaunt it, no, i simply prove it can be done and i actively helps others in the process to get their own business up and running and setting them on course to becoming finanically secure, how much wealth they make depends on them. Some who put hour after hour in will make a hell of a lot of money, those that only put a few hours in will simply only make a replacement or extra income. If i can do it so can they.
@38 rynvh
Feb 05th, 2012 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about the ethnic cleansing of Spain during the reconquest from the Moors, or the Spanish Inquisition, not to mention Atahualpa and Montizuma.
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