MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Britain steps up its claim to the Falkland Islands
By David Usborne - The following piece published by The Independent reveals the contents of a letter delivered by the British ambassador to the UN, Sir Mark Lyall Grant to UN Secretary General Ban-ki Moon rebutting Argentine historic arguments on which Buenos Aires supports its sovereignty claim over the Falkland Islands. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYup - sounds about right :-)
Feb 07th, 2012 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0The one that should take lessons of history is the British official, because Argentina inherited the territory of the Spanish Crown. Our settlers were expelled by British imperialism thirsting for conquest. There you've the memories of Charles Darwin, in 1831, when he came to our islands. There he tolds as he ate “asado con cuero” with our gauchos. In his portraits of artists is our flag flying. And Tierra del Fuego's thing is a trick of British official, as the decree that binds the territory of Falkland to the province of Tierra del Fuego was in the lasts years.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0No inheritance - don't you know that ??
Feb 07th, 2012 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Darwin arrived on March 1st 1833 - somehow I don't think it was your flag that was flying :-)
A history lesson - http://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/falklands-history5.pdf
as british citizens illegal aliens in islas Malvinas Argentina have the right to return to UK or become Argentines no body is trying to force anything they don't want, it's their choice to make. only in a banana country a illegal alien has more rights then the local government, I should warn them that some people has little patience for eitherone of them and if UK can theft why should Argentine's let outsiders enjoy our wealth when we can also occupy and claim our minerals from our land as pirats do in our territory.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cause it ain't your territory, and I don't think a dozen smelly gauchos in turf huts 180 years ago is a good basis for a sovereignty claim :)
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinian basis for a sovereignty claim:
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 01- Inherited the territory of the Spanish Crown.
2- Our people on the islands were expelled by british conquerors.
3- The islands are located in our continental shelf.
4- The right to self determination is not applicable to kelpers because they were not colonized. They came with the conquest. Literally they were implanted by the british crown. By the way, is that true that you kelpers can't choose your polical athority en tha islands?
Mmm..can you smell it? Smells like Hong Kong.....smells like the end of territorial colonialism.....good luck with that Gibraltar thing, by the way..
ernvera, Argentina inherited nothing from Spain. How could it “inherit” while at the same time fight a war of independence?
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0On top of that, Spain did not recognise Argentina until 1863 and never once protested the British presence in the Falklands after 1833.
Looking the replies .. The argies dont like the truth getting out..
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 J.A. Roberts
Feb 07th, 2012 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I will take the time to instruct you,
The United Provinces of Rio de la Plata claimed their independence from the Spanish Crown in 1816. Since then, all the territories belonging to the Crown, became part of the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata (including las Malvinas). After some provinces take their own way (La Banda Oriental became Uruguay, Alto Peru became Peru and Bolivia, etc.), Argentina, which is the legal extension in the time of the United Provinces,is reaffirmed as the legitimate sovereign of the territory called Malvinas. As evidence of the legal extension is the Anglo-Argentine treaty, 1825 that remains in force.
The recognition of Spain that you name, was given at that time because just in 1854 our Constitution was enacted (República). Before that, the highest political body of Argentina was the Confederacy.
The British asserted sovereignty over the Islands in 1765 at a time when Britain's relationship with the French and the Spanish (prior tenants/ claimants over the Islands in question) might best be described as adversarial in nature. From Spain’s attempted invasion of Britain in 1588 to its teaming up with France in the Battle of Trafalgar, Britain was essentially at war with them. Spain and France lost ground; Britain won ground. Losers in war pay reparations - that is the nature of the beast.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina’s claims over the Islands are therefore immaterial for in 1765, Argentina did not exist as an independent, self governing or recognised state. Laying such a claim would be like someone claiming ownership rights over something despite having not even being born or even conceived at the time when it last changed hands. And Britain never relinquished sovereignty over the Islands despite the erroneous claims to the contrary by poorly read sabre rattlers from across the ditch.
OK, envera, let me take the time to ask you:
Feb 07th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are Uruguay, Paraguay, parts of Bolivia, Peru and Chile which previously formed part of the Viceroyalty of the River Plate allowed to “take their own way”, but the Falklands are not?
Which legal instrument granted Argentina all of Spain's rights, titles and obligations over those parts of South America which had previously been the Viceroyalty of the River Plate.
@#9 - ”The United Provinces of Rio de la Plata claimed their independence from the Spanish Crown in 1816. Since then, all the territories belonging to the Crown, became part of the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata (including las Malvinas). ”
Feb 07th, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By that logic you have sovereingty to SPAIN too ehh.
As for the Anglo-Argentine Treaty of friendship, , Commerce, and Navigation - Which officially recognized Argentina as a country, also forced Argentina to open its economy to British commercial interests. When Latin American countries reneged on their agreements, did not respond to British efforts to force open their economies, or could not pay back their loans, the British often resorted to military interventions. The British (along with the other major European powers) punished Latin American countries by blockading their major port cities, such as Buenos Aires during the 1840s, and Veracruz, Mexico in the 1860s. British forces left Veracruz only when Mexico agreed to resume payments. Their is nothing in that agreement about britian cededing any sovereignty it held on any part of any territory it had sovereignty over in south america, at all. Your simply mistaking britians recognition of your country being an independant sovereign country as being that we recgonized your sovereignty over the falklands when we did not and not only that at the time your countries borders were a good 900 miles from the islands, so it could not have been possible for you to have had any form of sovereignty over the islands at all. You also have the Treaty of friendship in 1851 where argentina clearly stated all disputes with britain are settled, that would have included the falklands dispute, and only once was that dispute brought up between the signing of the agreement and when peron reneged on the treaty of friendship in the 1930's which is where your modern day claim for the islands originate from. So your talking crap Ernvera, and haven't a clue about the treaty you quoted or history.
#9
Feb 07th, 2012 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except everything you just described is not true. When the United Providences declared independence, territory was not transferred to it, rather territory was captured in act of rebellion. Sovereignty could only be transferred by recognition by Spain.
As regards the 1825 Treaty, both the US and the UK when they recognised Argentina recognised the independence of the state but specifically did not recognise all of the territory claimed by that state.
Your statement is nothing more than a legal pretension that has no basis in International Law. Which explains why Argentina has never been too keen to test it in court.
@ernvera,
Feb 07th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
None.
I thought it was a nice, well written, truthful letter.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pity Argentina cannot write such letters, the next time will be the first.
So to summarize:
no change in legal status of the Falklands (there are no Malvinas);
Islanders still have the only say about determining their future;
Argentina need to stop behaving like children (in diplomatic language of course).
So what's the problem? :o)
This is a great example of what is not said rather than what is said.The international authority on the subject,thinks that the letter's content is about right.Now lordton,the question is,if it's about right is it wholely right or only partial right or mostly incorrect.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me tell you what it is.It's a political response to Argentina's position.It's not correct.Otherwise why was there a need to 'evict' the population of the islands.Of course evict is the wrong word because that would be illegal occupiers were removed.But that isn't what happened.The islands were occupied by a hostile country.And the republic of Eire did not exist at the time,did it.
@2 Oh yeah? Prove it. There is no principle in international law, now or in the past, that allows a country (speaking loosely) to “inherit” any territory of another state unless it controls it. Please explain the Convention of Settlement Treaty which settled All differences and created Perfect relations between the two nations, i.e. Argentina and Britain, when Britain was in control of the Islands. Argie misconception and/or lies. Knowing argies, most likely lies.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9 I will take the time to instruct YOU. The concept of 'inheriting' territories from the Spanish Empire only existed inside South America. Nor did Britain recognise Spain's claim to sovereignty. So argieland cannot claim something that had not been accepted as belonging to Spain. The principles of 'uti possidetis' and 'uti possidetis juris' were not international law at the time, simply 'principles' that were still a matter of discussion. Spain did not recognise argieland until 1859 and did not transfer or cede any territory when it did. You know and understand so little.
Now, since argieland clearly has no legitimate or valid claim, any action by argieland to interfere with the Falklands economy, trade, international links or international transport will be an act of war. As Britain, by the authority of the United Nations, is responsible for the Falklands foreign affairs and defence, I expect you will be able to understand what argieland is bringing upon itself.
As you have already seen, your supporters tend to change their position when arriving vessels fly the Red Ensign. Moving along, what happens when the British Ministry of Defence takes control of a British civilian airliner and uses it to replace the LAN Airlines flight between Chile and the Falklands, except that it never stops in argieland. Interfering with our aircraft is definitely illegal and an act of war!
What happens when your vessels, e.g. fishing boats, go to sea and never come back? You are playing with fire!
6 ernvera
Feb 07th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's hard for us in the West to understand how some countries in the New World think. We must first understand that many of these new countries lack confidence, have no real identity and even after throwing off the trappings of colonialism, welcomed with open arms the hegemony of American power and corporate domination.
Such countries have not developed mature systems of democracy or diplomacy. They believe that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes true. If you rant often enough, others will listen and believe.
The Argentines are not a real nation, their country has only existed for about 175 years. Most Argentines trace their family history to Italy, Spain, Germany and the British Isles. The only real Argentines are the Amerindians and their nation is the entire continent of America.
The Argentines I know have Italian mothers, English father, Spanish grandfathers, German grandmothers, Welsh great great uncles. It's technically impossible to claim Argentines are a nation.
They also have the most comically fascist like government on the entire continent. Their entire policy agenda revolves around a group of islands they work 24/7 to alienate the population of. While spreading lies and peddling rants about “the British” that make Mugabe look normal by comparison.
Latin Americans find Argentina an alien culture, its a colonial relic, a piece of Europe transplanted onto a continent thousands of miles away. The culture is Latin European, with a touch of English and Welsh. It certainly bears no resemblance to its neighbors in Paraguay, Bolivia, Venezuela, or Peru.
Even the Argentine honour guards wear colonial uniforms copied from the British and Spanish Imperial era.
They are a throwback to another age. An age of fascism.
6 ernvera (#) short and excelent!
Feb 07th, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina went to war with Spain so that is not valid
Feb 07th, 2012 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it not true, that most of Argentina today, used to be a part of Chile and that is seems to be ok then for Chile to claim against Argentina,
Feb 07th, 2012 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That seems fair, I believe Chile has a better claim to halve of Argentina
,
Yes Chile, get your claims books out, and demand your territory back .
I've been following this site for sometime but I feel time to post. I'm 16, I'm a kelper. If the Argies want the Falklands come and take it and see what you get. I just hope you have enough places to put your dead because we don't want any more over here!
Feb 07th, 2012 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have been in Sea Cadets and Marine Detachment since I was 8. I plan to join the Defence Force as soon as I finish 6th form. Maybe to you I'm just a girl but I tell you now, come and see how straight I shoot. Come and find out!
There are hundreds more just like me, waiting. We've heard all the talk now come on!
“In 1833, the territorial boundaries of the Republic of Argentina does not include the geography of the south of its current form,” wrote Sir Mark. These facts demonstrate “that the Republic of Argentina's claim to the islands based on the principle of territorial integrity disruption, is unfounded.”
Feb 07th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally false. The specificity of the Malvinas question is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Therefore, the possibility is to apply the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the inhabitants of the islands would cause the “disruption of national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In this regard it should be noted that resolution 1514 (XV) “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” in the sixth paragraph states that “Any attempt aimed at partial or total disruption of national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter. ”In the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity taking into account the interests and NOT the wishes of the people of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12) , 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and therefore not of atodeterminación. The islanders are oviamente can not judge and party at a time of conflict.
Is not sweet see this Fowler's product ? Susy is genuine windsom kelper, great job Fowler intendent of education in Malvinas.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You cannot live in the past,
Feb 07th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact remains that the islanders with to remain British and that is an end to it, sooner or later Argentina will except this,
if 1833 was allowed in any contexts of what Argentina wished, then the floodgates would open, and then where would we be,
Live for the future, remember their are other countries that have claims on Argentinean territory, you may well end up with less land than you started with.
An interesting thought is it not.
25 British
Feb 07th, 2012 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No extremist. Leave the hatred and all that Argentina is Latin America. The fact is that the islanders can not be Bibritánicos in Argentine territory. Today there are mayors, deputies and senators of English origin and are fully integrated into our society. Never will happen in 1982, our constitution says:
“La Nacion Argentina ratifies its legitimate and imprescriptible sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the corresponding maritime and island spaces, being an integral part of the country. The recovery of these territories and the full exercise of sovereignty , respecting the way of life for its inhabitants and according to the principles of international law are a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people. ”
CONSTITUTION ARGENTINA, First Transitional Provision
Here we go, take note:
Feb 07th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 11 J.A. Roberts
Uruguay, Bolivia etc. had constituted politically and they took their own path as a people. The population of Las Malvinas was made up of Argentina, until an invasion by the British expelled us.
@ 12 Teaboy2
I did not talk about recognition of sovereignty, but of recognition as a country. A usual excuse that usually give kelpers and British, is “Argentina is a country since 1854” and that's not true.
@ 13 JustinKuntz
All the Spanish colonial territory in South America, after our independence, became part of the United Provinces of Rio de La Plata. If your teachers told you another story, that's not my fault.
@ 17 Conqueror
In truth, it matters little British surveys on sovereignty that Spain had on the American territories, needless to say that we speak Spanish in most of the continent as proof that a whim is no more than reality.
Your whole bellicose rant is irrelevant, in the United Nations our claim is accepted as legitimate, why is that?
And I explained above that Argentina is the legal continuation in time of the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata.
@ 18 AndyMac
Look what we have here. First, you should know (if you did not know, I tell you) that across the pond there is another world. Not only is another land, another way of thinking about the world and men. We do not have a racist view of what it means to be a nation. A national project is what puts unity in the cultural diversity we have in America (and by extension Argentina). Here, indigenous, native and immigrant children are an intercultural, live together under the same flag and destination. I know it will be very difficult to understand for you, since you practice racism and prejudice every day, but here we see things from another perspective. And if you call us “fascists” to be Peronist, you do not have the foggiest idea of revolution Peron hio on this earth. Obviously, the benefit of Argentine interests, not British.
26 Raul
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the fact remains. in the 21st century, no country has a right to take anothers land,
thats the end to it,
is called democracy,
We keep hearing all the bleating and whining from the Argies over the fabled 1833 so called eviction.
Feb 07th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, if Old Smooth Neck aka Old Rubber Neck or the Queen of Plastic, really, really, believes this twaddle we all know what she should do and where she should go to get a LEGAL resolution to this 'claim'
ALL TOGETHER NOW: ICJ, ICJ, ICJ.! How many more times do we have to tell you. Anything less will not do, will not work. The Falklands (there are no Malvinas) belong to the Islanders.
1833 LOL
Feb 07th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are insane.
chrisR has she made her speech yet,
Feb 07th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we aint heared nothing yet,
its 22.17 in the UK,
dont know what time it is in the south atlantic,
If Argentina invade the islands, then we'll just probably give them a little spanking by attacking them with nuclear weapons, with minimal casualties of 5 million haha. Or we just invade them. Back to the islands, don't really know much about the history of the situation, but what I will say is that, Argentina can't get the islands back because of the fact that they are Argentina, and we are Britain, and we are the better country by a universal distance. Rule Brittania bitches ;)
Feb 07th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Raul, why are you quoting from Argentina's national constitution? Your opponents have less respect for it than Richard Dawkins has for the Bible. Maybe what you mean is that, just because the territorial claim in question has become part of the core of Argentina's national identity, the Kelpers should bow to it. If my interpretation is correct, then you need to see a non-Argentinian psychiatrist, as such thoughts as this are unmistakable symptoms of a severe mental disease. Would it be reasonable for a man wholly a stranger to Renee Zellweger to say “As my desire for you has become part of the core of my identity, you rightly belong to me” and expect her to answer “Let's sit at the table and negotiate”?
Feb 08th, 2012 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent CFK. Expose the bellicose rage of Cameron. Unmasks mental anachronism of these apes who run the Foreign Office.
Feb 08th, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mmm...Can you smell it? Can you smell the fear? Smells like Hong Kong ... it seems you are alone in this one...
Volveremos Malvinas!!
Mmm...Can you smell it? Can you smell the fear? Smells like Hong Kong ... it seems you are alone in this one...
Feb 08th, 2012 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Volveremos Malvinas!!
You are rigth ernvera,uk exit from Malvinas.....It is written in the walls.The one's not seeing this are the brits in this forum.Because the smart brits,who do not waste time in this almost usseless forum,thinks about the end of the brits in MAlvinas....
MALVINAS ARGENTINAS!
Isolde,
Feb 08th, 2012 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Without your retarded by effective attitude as SERVANT our family would not be able to exist in this century” mom-queen-saurio
@36 you are not first,
Feb 08th, 2012 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Que?
You make no sense, but then again, malvinistas make no sense!
the smart brits,who do not waste time in this almost usseless forum,
Feb 08th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0why you then
////////////////////////////////
you are not first ,,
lady bashing is what you do best, is it not,
please answer thequestion,
CHimp:the smart brits,who do not waste time in this almost usseless forum,
Feb 08th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0why you then
////////////////////////////////
you are not first ,,
lady bashing is what you do best, is it not,
please answer thequestion,
I just do nto waste time,when the Argentines,answered briliantly the Legal,historical aspects...That is the reason,uk is there by force.....NO proper titles.Taht is the reason uk never won anything at the UN ,OAS
Why is it always a big hairy bad tempered gorilla,
Feb 08th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That always picks of the poor chimps,
Perhaps he's Tarzan calls are falling on deaf ears .
But then, if grunting is all he can manage, who are we to take this simple pleasure from him.
Argentina claims to havve international backing from many countries, well they only have backing from half of south america, who have no little influence on international issues, like Argentina. Read some history books that aren't bullcrap propoganda designed to warp your minds from the government. Kirchner is like a non Jew hating, people killing Hitler.
Feb 08th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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