MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina’s Malvinas policy leads no where; China and Taiwan, an inspiring example
Argentina has fallen prisoner of two conflicting positions on the Malvinas Islands issue which lead no where in the objective of claiming sovereignty over the South Atlantic Islands, says Carlos Perez Llana a former Argentine ambassador in Paris and political science and diplomacy professor. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo many people, so many views :-)
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/britains-attitude-over-the-falkland-islanders-rights-a-scandal/
If the RG's were not a corrupt and nasty people i've no doubt that Falklands would be RG now by choice of the islanders. But with their obsession of using the M word and calling Stanley by a wierd made up name and insisting the government is based in the land of fire they are a very very very long way off. And the thing is they just cannot see that.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 2 If you had a brain, you would be the king of the world, but you're not. But this is not about being more or less corrupt, this is about accepting the fact that the islands are British
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0To 2 kbec. How many Argentineans have you met? Are they indeed all nasty and corrupt?
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0I, on the contrary have met many British and no one was as xenophobic as you are, in fact very nice people.
4 Peace,
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Estimado, that is why most of our british friends don´t write here! :-)
Argentina is a great land with great people, its just a small majority in this great land who are British haters... and CFK is increasing the hate through her obsession for an island.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nonsense! China/Taiwan comparison is not correct. China didn't invade because USA sold a lot of weapons to Taiwan and because they are in a polítical war with Taiwan. They are to become the first power in future and they have a lot a patience because they know time is on their side. They don't need to push for something that's going to happen anyway.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Something similar happens here. We are not going to invade the islands, we don't have the force (for now) to do it anyway. The strategy is in the political and economic arena. The islands are here in the South Atlantic. They won't go anyway. We have now some control thanks to diplomatic negotiations with our neighbours. That's what we have to increase.
No matter if some small country in the caribean or in south Asia recognize kelperkistan since in practic terms they are useless to the squatters. Key countries are Brazil, Uruguay and Chile. We should make deals with them in order to make squatters life more difficult and miserable.
Do not tell me China is not doing it. They are doing it silently. They make convenient deals with countries which don't recognize Taiwan. If I'm not mistaken, none Southamerican country recognize Taiwan.
¿Why is this? Because we want good relations with China. We need them and of course they need us. That's the way world works!
Yes, we need to follow China's steps. That means more economic growth, more industrialization. With that, you can gain more power of influence in other countries/societies. China is doing that and Taiwan knows it! It was Taiwan that approached China first because they have no other option. The same thing will happen with Malvinas and their ilegal occupants.
Also,Jorge...Taiwan data: Pop; 23,6 millions
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0GDP 870 billion.......Really invading a powerhouse like that??
It would be extremely complicated,if not impossible to force them....
brit living in china here! I dont believe JORGE1982 is very balanced is so far that he still believes that the FALKLANDS are occupied by illegal immigrants/squatters! Absolutley not true unless he agrees that the vast majoirty of S. America is also occupied by illegal immigrants/squatters. Very simply, tell me if you agree or not - it is a yes/no answer!
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0BTW the China Taiwan situation is nothing to do with taiwan being armed! China could swamp the island in a matter of days regardless of a few aircraft and missles!
Kelperkistan Ha ha That was reaaaally good
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Jorge1982: Don't expect the Uruguayans, Chileans or Brazilians to support Argentina if push comes to shove. The Uruguayans are sick and tired of Argentina's bullying, the Chileans hate the Argentines' guts and in Brazil the “gallego” jokes in Buenos Aires are about Argentines! Your murderous clown governments have made you a nation of murderous clowns. Time to grow up!
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've never really believed that CFK expected any of the recent antics to make any progress. She'd need to be stupid to believe they would. The Falklands are simply a useful political tool in domestic and regional politics.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 07:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0It all looks very silly from the developed world.
CFK will continue to beat the Falklands/Malvinas drum as long as the Argentine economy remains in the doldrums. The military junta did it under Galtieri in 1982. The junta thought that repossession of the islands would be easy. How mistaken they were!
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0What I think is strange that the people of Hong Kong were not asked if they wanted to remain British. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Tackling the Chinese is not the same as dealing with the Argentines.
Let's face facts, Kerchnerites and Argentina have absolutely no control over events. Because of the adaptivity of free-markets, if you close one through an economic blockade, then new ones appear, and your economy adapts to suit. Eggs and Bananas might be an issue now but they're hardly going to be in the future.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0JORGE1982 (#)
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:49 am
This post is a good example of the racism involved in this issue. While Argentina is claiming sovereignty over the land Jorge seems to believe the residents are squatters not entitled to be there - I assume because they are not Hispanic.
@16 This is all very similar to Article 153 of the Malaysian Constitution which in essence says that Malaysia is the Malay people's home, and unless you wear arabic clothes and speak in arabic then you cannot have free education nor can you work in government. Sadly for the Malays, they turned up quite recently and the actual aboriginal owners of the land are the Orang Asli who seem to get treated like dirt.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina it's not quite enshrined in the constitution, because most of the aboriginals have been effectively genocided. Now they think because they're all dead, that no one remembers they ever existed, and therefore they're not colonists.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so very very sad.
“However Perez Llana believes things are not that simple and pushing and shoving won’t obtain nothing and likewise forgetting the Malvinas ”
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“won't obtain nothing” is a double negative.
Who writes for this paper?
It shows the same carelessness and indifference to writing that your average Argentinians shows to things like - ethics.
It's an interesting microcosm of the macrocosm of the behavior in Argentina.
ie; They don't know what they are doing, and they don't care.
That's why they can't internalize the rules and have no conscience.
BTW, someone who can't internalize rules and has no conscience about it is the clinical definition for a psychopath.
“The former ambassador and professor at several reputed universities argues that yes, the Malvinas are Argentine”
Oh, well, that settled then. Pfft.
“Argentina has limited conditions to negotiate”
He got that right.
“and must begin admitting that it is possible we will not achieve all we want ”
As this man well knows, Argentinians do not admit they are wrong often, or easily. That's why they are forever stuck in the same problems, repetition with no development (the definition of psychosis, btw).
“Likewise the advance of negotiations will much depend on “serious and numerous alliances in the world,”
Which in its entire history Argentina has yet to develop.
“ a significant sustained economic growth”
That either.
“and becoming attractive to the international economy”
This one too.
”as well as great respect for the rule of law and institutions which makes a country trustworthy and reliable”.
(c. note above on their incredible inability to internalize rules, of anything!)
He embarrasses himself with the China/Taiwan - Argentina/Falklands comparison. Just embarrassing and stupid. This is an example of Argentine grandiosity. Seeing themselves as more than human because they feel themselves as less than human but can't admit it.
No military, no economy. Can Argentina even be called a country?
@18 And here was me avoiding the word psychopath and using the friendlier term sociopath.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's all the pathological lying that makes it all so interesting though.
19 The “Conquerors” that want to send nukes for exterminating 3 million argentinos are healthy white western british citizens, but Perez LLana and his fellow citizens are psycopaths and sociopath.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your selected use of psychology talks a lot about...just yourselves.
@14 It's a bit late to be talking about Hong Kong now but there are clear differences. A map may help. Hong Kong's territory was acquired in three separate treaties: the Treaty of Nanking in 1842, the Treaty of Beijing in 1860, and The Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory in 1898. Now Hong Kong Island and Kowloon had been ceded to Britain in perpetuity but the remainder, the New Territories, was on a 99-year lease. If you look at a map, you will see that an extremely large part of the territory of Hong Kong (more than half) was the New Territories. The growth of the infrastructure had been such that it was no longer possible to viably separate the New Territories from the rest of Hong Kong. Imagine the situation. Britain offers the Hong Kong Chinese the option to remain British but within the permanently ceded area of Hong Kong. In rough terms, had all the HK Chinese opted for British citizenship, it would have meant cramming 7,061,200 people in an area of 426 square miles into something like 213 square miles. The current population density is 16,576 per square mile. That would have increased to a little over 33,000 per square mile. Currently, in Britain, we say that we are overcrowded. UK population density is 661.9 per square mile. Think about it. No basis in law to retain the New Territories. Condemn the HK Chinese to living somewhere 50 times more crowded than the UK. Or negotiate the best possible deal for the people and return Hong Kong to the Peoples Republic of China. Hong Kong is a Special Administrative Area. Broadly, it still exists in much the same state as it did under British rule.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falklands are completely different. Never EVER an argie territory. Even Spain never claimed the entire archipelago. And that alone goes to show how stupid argies are. Thing is that China may get somewhere with Taiwan as it develops capitalist communism. Could argieland do something similar? Like believably develop intelligence, consideration, honesty...
The argentine position of trying to Isolate the Falklands from SA by cutting sea and air links (The LAN Chile flight could be severed at any time) and refusing to any talks with the Islanders and also Denying the existance of the Falkland Islands Government, pushes the Falklands to trade with other Continents and therefore has LESS in common with SA and more in common with being Self-reliant and independent!!!!
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long Live the Falklands.
Down with argentine Colonialism.
Uk returning Hong Kong to China an inspiring example.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is flogging a dead horse. The Falklands were never Argentinian but their mindset seems to be stuck fast.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not all lovey-dovey between China and Taiwan. Chinese nationals cannot fly direct to Taipai from old China but must first fly to the virtual middle ground of Hong Kong.
#7 Good comment Jorge, a realisitic schema you paint....
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0con hdp´s no hay que hablar.
Exactly like China and Taiwan, except Taiwan had an aboriginal population before the Han Chinese supplanted them. Best to keep the status-quo there too. Taiwan didn't appear as a part of Chinese maps as a part of China until recently, and that's the same with Argentina.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Solution: UK maintains the status quo; Argfags fester in their own sh!t.
18 catagom
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“won't obtain nothing” is a double negative. /
“Who writes for this paper?
It shows the same carelessness and indifference to writing that your average Argentinians shows to things like - ethics.”
Yes, it is. And perfectly acceptable to someone whose FIRST language is Espanol and confusing to us Brits. / AND no it doesn't. The people at MercoPress are alright and they do a fair balancing act in dificult circumstances. You need to get used to it if you want to continue on here.
From a Brit who lives in Uruguay and is learning LatAm Espanol: try it yourself, you will find it interesting but very frustrating. :o)
23 nitrojuan
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Returning” being the apt word here. Hong Kong used to belong to China and we had a lease on it, that had to be honoured. The people of Hong Kong were also 95% Chinese.
While the Falklands have never belonged to Argentine, it would therefore be impossible to “return” them to a country to which they have never belonged. Likewise the people of the Falklands are English speaking, British citizens, not Spanish speaking, Argentines.
There is two problems with this article and the Argentine fascists who are posting here - 1. It assumes something that is false - the Falklands are Argentine or ever have been. 2. The Falklands people can be bought out.
The idea that Argentina, a country that claims the Falklands doesn't even exist! Can buy out the Falkland Islanders is insane. Argentina has a serious problem... it is called Nationalism and it will rip their country apart before it is through. If they can't deal with that, the world will never take that country seriously.
You can not claim something which is and never has been yours.
It would be like the UK claiming Iceland, true the UK shares a maritime border with Iceland, true during WW2 British forces occupied the island but it would be a LIE to claim Iceland's sovereignty has never belonged to the UK. And it would be a insane dream to ever believe we could scare, bribe or in any other way win the Icelandic people over to wanting to be British.
Argentina needs to understand that territorial expansion is a Nazi idea.
Argentina needs to understand that creating lands that do not exist - the Malvinas, etc is a childish idea.
Argentina needs to understand that brainwashing school children into believing in fake islands, populated by Argentines, under British occupation is not just a lie but is childishly nationalistic and fascistic.
Argentines need to stop dreaming of wars they lost, stop claiming medals they never earned, stop dreaming of some small islands hundreds of miles away. GROW UP.
“Perez Llana then appealed to the Chinese example.” Look at Beijing with all the power you have, is not proposing an invasion of Taiwan, by contrast, seeks to attract and seduce the island state of bilateral relations has increased this is what should be a source of inspiration to us. ”
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really this man, Perez Llana is a liar. Argentina never proposed an invasion. On the contrary, England bid to militarization and terrorism by sending a destroyer of last generation and threaten to nuke the Argentine and Latin American legitimate claims over the islands. Cristina proposed to give a chance for peace. UK commitment to intimidation and violence.
Liana Perez has to read the resolutions committee of the UN decolonization. Resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute and our constitution, “La Nacion Argentina ratifies its legitimate and imprescriptible sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the corresponding maritime and island spaces, being an integral part of national territory . the recovery of these territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respecting the way of life for its inhabitants and according to the principles of international law are a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people. ”
CONSTITUTION ARGENTINA, First Transitional Provision
Who on earth cares about what the Argentine constitution says? It's of no relevance or importance to anyone or anything outside of Argentina.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29 Raul Christina Kirchner is a proponent of an Ideology that is based upon Nazism and Bonapartism. These two ideologies are firmly authoritarian and expansionist. Having her say 'give peace a chance' is like the crocodile saying 'i'm not going to eat you'.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cristina Kirchner is also cosying up to Chavez, a populist dictator, who has ruined the economy of Venezuela. This is a known fact.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It strikes me as strange that Argentina and Chile were both ruled by military dictatorships for many years. Chile is now progressing and Argentina seems to be regressing. Perhaps the Chileans received advice from Mrs Thatcher as well as the University of Chicago economists
I also wonder if the military of Argentina and Chile got permission to stage their coups from the USA - Operation Condor etc
Reading Anthony Sampson's SOVEREIGN STATE will shed some light on this
I assume that Raul above is Patricio10 on the Daily Telegraph:
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9098633/Cristina-Kirchner-told-to-leave-Falkland-Islanders-alone-by-Argentinas-intellectuals.html#disqus_thread
Post @ 4.36pm
@31 People with failed political ideologies typically stick together. Just look at North Korea and Iran.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 029 Raul
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Child like Argentines never cease to amaze me, you swallow all the crap fed to you by your government without question even when the strikingly obvious is smacking you repeatedly in the face.
You are like a nation of retards, adults with the medal age of 6. Flag waving nationalists marching to the beat of a fascist Peronist government.
Raul you are a COWARD. I've called you and all the other fascist Argentine cunts posting on here out. Want our islands? Come and take them.
Stop blockading us! Stop harassing our shipping! Stop breaking international law! Stop violating our air space! Stop violating our territorial waters! Stop threating us with invasion! Stop claiming land that isn't yours! Stop calling our islands Malvinas! Stop claiming sovereignty over something you have never had sovereignty over.
Raul I bet you are a bot bellied middle age Argentine, with some kind of bowl disorder. You are all cowards. Only cowards claim ownership of people and land that isn't theirs. You are criminal fascist and cowards scum. I would whip your ass from this side of the Atlantic Ocean to the other. You and the other freaks posting here.
@33 Yes, it's probably him. I found Marcelo expressing his opinion here (http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/britains-attitude-over-the-falkland-islanders-rights-a-scandal/) as for Raul, I cannot see why you're wrong.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like Raul, when he isn't busy copying and pasting he's spouting epic levels of nonsense.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me one shred of evidence Raul that the UK is threatening to nuke Argentina, just one shred please because it clearly never happened you silly boy.
The UK does not threaten countries with nukes (EVER) unless there is an equal threat and quite clearly Argentina is about as threatening as CFK is, i.e. not at all.
Also the militarization claims I actually find pretty amusing, so the UK occasionally swaps warships in the area on routine patrol and somehow this is outraging Argentina, I do wonder if the Argentine government has been asleep for the past 30 years where it has happened several times a year.
You are a strange old set of lunatics.
@9 NO.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Talk for yourself. You hate us, not uruguayans (3 M people), nor chileans (17 M people), nor Brazilians (190 M people), just you.
@16 I don't understand why you call me a racist. There a lot of British and non-hispanic people from all over the world living here. Those british who came here didn't raise the british flag. They respect our sovereignty. That's the problem with you.
@38 An argentinian talking about respecting sovereignty. Hahahaha That's HILARIOUS. hahahahaah I'm going to have to write that one down.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As long as Argentina remains a signatory to the UN charter on freedom democracy and self determination, you guys will just have to accept the fact,
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British Falklands will not be yours, now or ever,
And there is nothing you can do abt it, except moan,
.
Letter from Adolfo Perez Esquivel, Nobel Peace Prize to David Cameron: They are most important exercises of peace, be prepared to kill the prince.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read the following link:
http://www.adolfoperezesquivel.org/?p=951
35 AndyMac
Raul're a coward. I have asked you and all the other pussies published in Argentine fascist hereafter. Want our islands? Come and take them.
Pathetic and sad (shameful) your comments. Learn from John Lennon. I remember these words of Luther king “Peace is a matter of courage. War is a cowardly thing ”“ There are no roads to peace, peace is the way ”
37 Xect
I like Raul, when not busy copying and pasting that is releasing the epic levels of stupidity.
It is not copy and paste. The truth is unique and can not be changed because it is a fact. Have eyes but do not want to see, have ears but do not want to hear. The facts are the facts. The only truth is the reality. The fact is that in the Malvinas issue is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina.
The truth is that there may be English in Argentine territory.
Understand it well.
@Raul I read this letter and it's hilarious. The guy is clearly in need of some kind of publicity and just sounded like yet another mouth of sauron. Do they all get given the same thing to write?
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I personally believe the UN and its putting self determination as paramount. Besides, there is no way to negotiate in an 'Argentinian Negotiation', that nobel prize winner should have been stripped of his award for not knowing this. In an Argentinian Negotiation, you simply have to agree to all Argentina's demands, which is nonsense. Even in a normal negotiation Argentina is bringing nothing to the table.
Better just leave you guys to sweat in a pit of your own faggotry.
Raul, I'm waiting for you to answer my question.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect you can't because you're facts do not exist except in some bizarre alternative reality you seem to share with Timmerman.
Answer my question with facts and I will apologies and just to give you a heads up words from your government do not constitute facts.
42 greekyoughurt, here ( bellow ) is a negotiation, I believe that you can show the world how to negotiate now....
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps:
1- avoiding the negotiation
2-denying the historic facts
3-or just simple as “self determination of the people” ( english people put there with weapons since 1833) come on english... BE SERIOIUS !!!!!
Propuesta de Paz de Perú
5 de mayo de 1982
Proyecto de Acuerdo sobre las Islas Malvinas:
(1) El cese del fuego inmediato, concurrente con:
(2) retiro mutuo y la no reintroducción de las fuerzas, de acuerdo con un calendario que establecerá el Grupo de Contacto;
(3) La introducción inmediata de un Grupo de Contacto integrado por Brasil, Perú, La República Federal de Alemania y los Estados Unidos en las Islas Malvinas, con carácter temporal, en espera de un acuerdo sobre una solución definitiva. El Grupo de Contacto asumirá la responsabilidad de (A) La verificación de la retirada; (B) Garantizar que no se toman medidas en las Islas, por la administración local, lo que iría en contra de este acuerdo, y (C) Asegurar que todas las demás disposiciones del el acuerdo se respeten
(4) Gran Bretaña y la Argentina reconoce la existencia de diferentes puntos de vista y en relación con el estatuto de las Islas Malvinas;
(5) Los dos gobiernos reconocen que las aspiraciones e intereses de los isleños se incluirán en la solución definitiva de la situación de las Islas;
(6) El Grupo de Contacto tendrá la responsabilidad de garantizar que los dos gobiernos llegar a un acuerdo definitivo antes del 30 de abril de 1983.
ps, sorry but this propossal did not reach margaret. ( but it was delivered to the foreign office 14 hours before the fact...
that is why she ordered to sink the Belgrano. just to win the elections.
Argentineans killed more english after that than ever in the conflict.
Asking you again IS THIS THE WAY YOU NEGOTIATE ??? I believe some one has no balls to tell the truth.
c you
Cheers from Lima Perú.
hypocrit #44. 1. This is an English speaking forum 2. ignoring history? - well islands were British claimed before Argentina even existed - it is for Argentina to put a case to the ICJ if these basic facts are disputed. 3. Argentines declared war on us by invading our territory. No use blubbing back to mummy when we fight back and sink your ships - infact this is the issue now isn't it? CFK calls us pirates on twitter, makes threats to drop the LAN airlink and gets her corrupt mates to stop Falklands flags in their ports. Then when we fight back by ensuring the islands are adequately defended they go crying like a schoolyard bully who has had someone stand up to him all the way to the UN.
Feb 22nd, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@45
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 02) Then they stoppeed being yours. We were born as a nation. You expelled us from Islands which were Spanish and which were under Buenos Aires intendency.
3) The Junta did. But well, I'm sure the conscripts and we all were consulted if we wanted that, didn't we?
4) The problem is that she is not using weapons to achieve this. For your “defence” you are.
#46 Satanic
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:33 am - Link - Report abuse 02. Never dropped the claim - unlike you guys in 1850. No civilian was expelled - just lies from successive military dictatorships.
3. The Junta is Argentine, you can't change history just because of a military government - south america gets them all the time. Besides when they invaded the Falklands civilians suddenly loved their junta and were out on the street celebrating.
4. Not using weapons as know you would get another thorough hiding. We didn't have a defence prior to 1982. The events then and the events now prove we need one.
BTW even your own educated are starting to get fed up with this nonsense - it seems that no Argentine newspaper has reported this though. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9098633/Cristina-Kirchner-told-to-leave-Falkland-Islanders-alone-by-Argentinas-intellectuals.html
45 kbec....
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0do not change my name, please, I don't want to call you with a different name.
1. i know 4 languages, sorry , next time I will write it in your language is not a problem for me to teach you some other languages, the issue is that the Peruvian proposal of peace was originally written in Spanish.
2.sorry but your consul in Buenos Aires recognized them as argentinean in 1825 by recognizing a new nation PROVINCIAS UNIDAS DEL RIO DE LA PLATA ( sorry I cannot translate it), study more next time....ok ? also if you mention your garrison at Port Egmont, it was ilegal, hidden of the eyes of Spain, and also then left away due to agreements WRITEN with spain. Argentina has two names, one is Argentina and the second is PROVINCIAS UNIDAS DEL RIO DE LA PLATA, i can send you a coin of 1 peso and you will see it today....
3. there was no declaration of war, again, study more mate....
Argentineans did not invade you, you invade them in 1806 1807 and 1833, remember ??? look up for a history book.... if you cannot find it I can send it to you via LAN Chile.
UN is a WORLD organization, not a school.... , I believe you have to drink liters of tea and read many books next time when you are ready, you send me an e mail and we talk again
luissuriani@hotmail.com
have a great night.
Is the opposition in Argentina growing ??
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/self-determination-argentinas-opposing-views/
lord ton......
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0well we have people different point of view, that is democracy.... believe me just a few, but only because they are on the other side of the corner ( politicians ) on our LA NACION newspaper... nothing to keep an eye on...
45 kbec this translation is just for you.
Peace Proposal of Peru
5 May 1982
Draft Agreement on the Falkland Islands:
(1) The immediate ceasefire, concurrent with:
(2) mutual withdrawal and reintroduction of forces not in accordance with a schedule to be established by the Contact Group;
(3) The immediate introduction of a Contact Group consisting of Brazil, Peru, The Federal Republic of Germany and the United States in the Falkland Islands, on a temporary basis, pending agreement on a final settlement. The Contact Group will be responsible for (A) The verification of the withdrawal, (B) Ensure that no action is taken in the Islands, by the local administration, which would go against this agreement, and (C) Ensure that all other provisions of the agreement are respected
(4) Great Britain and Argentina recognized the existence of different points of view and in relation to the status of the Falkland Islands;
(5) The two Governments recognize that the aspirations and interests of the islanders will be included in the final settlement of the situation of the Islands;
(6) The Contact Group will be responsible for ensuring that the two governments to reach a final agreement before April 30, 1983.
@47
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0First of all. If you put my name put it right. There's no need to insult. Insulting in a discussion only show the kind of person you are. And you are insulting a surname, which not only I have but many hundredss more across the world.
2) The treaty is about “differences which interreupted commercial and political relations”. Did the Islands did so? No. So they are not one of those differences. They are another. End of story.
3) Oh, sorry. I forgot that at that time if you were not with the Junta you were against it(at least when something important happened). But well, there are like 30.000 reasons to believe it wasn't good to be against them. They all have a connection anyway. It's called fear. Fear to die or see your loved ones die.
4) Sure. You need a a modern destroyer to defend from a military force which is about to reintroduce stones and bows.
And BTW, I agree in some things in disagree in some others in that doccument. But they are not the best people to complain about it. They are hardly remarkable intellectuals. They don't have a reputation like to promote that ideas. These is people that keeps, and keeps, and keeps, and keeps, and keeps, and keeps, and keeps, and keeps complaining about all. From the color of water to the shape of coins. If themselves governed they would complain too. They are like a disco rayado. Now if you tell me that someone like Nelson Castro supports this. Then I see some of it a future. With the actual ones presenting the document I will give it as much repercusion as listening heavy metal while having the volume on mute.
41 Raul
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0The truth is these islands are not ours and never have been, leave the people who live there alone. Everyday I come on here to read the articles and every day the same venom and insults directed at people posting here, the same one sided view points, the same hatred. It is sad, very sad, to think that this is only how far we come!
You remember 1982 Raul? You remember Galtieri? You have family that was taken from you from the same brave military and security forces, tortured, disappeared, never to be seen again? How many people was it? Tens of thousands of our own people! Children ripped away from their parents, those too old murdered because they did not want the facts to leak out, those under 2 given away to loyal families.
What brought all this to an end? It was our defeat in the Mavlinas. Yet people want to turn back the clock. It is unreal. It is incredible to think we still have people who believe what we did in 82 was right, still defend the military junta and their “brave” officers who murdered their own people. You know what Operation Condor was? Look it up.
How can you defend a war that seen so many people die on all sides? Islanders as well? How can you defend a war of aggression? The UN did not. The international community did not.
Most of the people posting here know very little. I lived through that time. Seen the cowards working away taking children off our streets, raiding homes, cordoning off neighborhoods. The same mentality still prevails. Some of you people need to get out!
There is no excuse for claiming other peoples land. What kind of idiot believes that going back 189 years can change anything? What about going back 30 years? Idiots.
This claim for the Malvians came from, a distraction, from a military government out of control and it hasn't gone away. A bunch of cowards, killing children and our youth. Youth with a vision for Argentina that did not include American corporate domination.
48. Don't need to teach me languages. I know 3 - not Spanish though.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0UK has never recognised Argentine claims to the Falkland islands - Indeed Vernet always took his Argentine grant to the British to obtain permission - I think you need to study more.
An action deems a declaration of war. When the Japanese attacked pearl harbour they didn't declare war but the action was war. When Argentina invaded the Falklands the world saw this an an act of war - hence the UN security council condemnation, sanctions against Argentina and the task force setting sail.
As for the Peruvian peace plan Thatcher actually approved it on 5th May, Argentina rejected it on 6th May. They cited the Belgrano, but we were at war and had already retaken South Georgia, shot down 3 aircraft, bombed Stanley, sunk an RG patrol boat and damaged another. You had already hit HMS Sheffield. - so I think a smokescreen by the Junta.
Sorry you don't know how to write spanish, you will need it soon or later...
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0let's go by parts ( as Jack the ripper said...)
Ok, back to history class with you...
Vernet, after being pushed out from the Island by your Army ( or navy) he was no longer governor, SO then, he acted as a person to save his capital, because he was no more governor... is this difficult to understand for you ??? he was not more governor. ..Ok so anything about him after you kicked him out from Malvinas has no political sense... now, you need to study international law ( and spanish :) , just joking ).
Pearl harbour was action of war because japanese KILLED AMERICANS, argentineans did not kill a single soldier or civilian, then this IS NOT act of war, again, go to the books mate.... you are far away from a right example, try again....
Margaret sent the task force due to HER political convenience...
Regarding Peace proposal, it was made by Perú, approved by Argentina an sent to england, then you did not get it and that's all... no rejection.
No no no.... you have a wrong timeline.... acts of war like shooting down planes and the one in Gritviken, were prior to the sinking of Belgrano you are right, but the peace proposal, was sent to you prior you decide to sink the Belgrano, remember, Conqueror followed the Belgrano for more than one day after pressing the button.... Argentina Hit the Sheffield after you sink the Belgrano. commme onnnnnn mate..... i cannot have a discussion with you if you don't study.... or are you inventing history... ??? or are you english ??? sorry but to lie is not a gentleman attitude ....
Act of war , for instance, was to invade Buenos Aires, killing people every were, do you see the difference now ????????? uffff hard task to educate you, no universities in the islands? I hope you can use wikipedia at least...
history class 4 u
2 of may sinking of Belgrano
4 of may sinking of Sheffield
r u drinking? LIAR
@kbec
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0And can you write in the other 2 that you know?
I hope your 3 languages will not be Cockney, Newcastle language and rural Englanner
Was I really close?
Come on we are waiting to see your writing language skills.
@Argfags
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 01) You invaded British protected territory, and for that you declared war on the British, and every ship in your fleet should have been sunk. The fact you only had one sunk is a blessing, and YOUR FAULT FOR STARTING THE CONFLICT. (the UN used Artcle 51 to allow us to self-defend)
2) a peace negotiation isn't just throwing a piece of paper at people with your demands on it. That's yet another 'Argentinian Negotiation', besides it was YOUR FAULT FOR STARTING THE CONFLICT.
3) No one is capable of negotiating in an Argentinian Negotiation because it is an oxymoron.
4) Go to the ICJ.
I'm really not sure how the Argfags can cope with this intense level of faggotry that they exude.
CLAIMS TO THE FALKLANDS/MALVINAS
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0On the one side you have the UK with its story.
On the other side you have Argentina with its story.
Where does the truth lie? OR Who knows the true history?
DanyBerger. Of course I can write in English and 2 other languages but as we are dealing with unintelligent and indoctrinated people here I won't waste my time. But of course I learnt languages for business worldwide which incidentally is why I have no use for Spanish - only good for ordering a paella, listening to some rant or shagging your mexican au-pair.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hypocrite #
Saying liar in block capitals eh? is that that latin temperament taking over - your president has made many a fool of herself on the public stage because of that - be careful there's a good boy.
So what you are saying is if you attack foreign territory it only becomes war if someone is killed? now who's been drinking?
What I will say is when Galteiri refused the Peruvian peace deal and later refused later British offers he effectively cut off any future discussions. Regarding the Belgrano, well this was a very well executed tactical move as it made the rest of your navy run away like the cowards they are. Hope our subs remember that next time. No use crying over it - like any bully, they are the first to run crying to teacher when someone stands up to them. You don't stop a war midway through because of a peace proposal, (USA learnt that with HAnoi in Vietnam) it continues until you have an agreement otherwise the side that is going to lose.
Finally, your comment re studying international law, well the ICJ deals in international law, therefore that would be a great lesson for you guys.
@58 We could have sunk all their boats, but we probably would have found the ODESSA-sponsored political leadership du jour had just filled them full of the 1% indigenous population in an attempt to get us to genocide them as well. Then they only had the spanish conquistadors slave caste to destroy, before their plan is complete.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Pearl harbour was action of war because japanese KILLED AMERICANS, argentineans did not kill a single soldier or civilian, then this IS NOT act of war, again, go to the books mate.... you are far away from a right example, try again....”
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you really say that? Do you really believe that?
If so I'd keep quiet from now on as it's the most idiotic thing I've read on here for a long while - and that is up against some pretty stiff competition.
“Pearl harbour was action of war because japanese KILLED AMERICANS, argentineans did not kill a single soldier or civilian, then this IS NOT act of war”
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“acts of war like shooting down planes and the one in Gritviken, were prior to the sinking of Belgrano you are right, but the peace proposal, was sent to you prior you decide to sink the Belgrano, remember, Conqueror followed the Belgrano for more than one day after pressing the button”
So, in argentinian schools they teach them that Argentina didn't kill anyone (LACK OF FACT) and therefore it wasn't an Act of War (LACK OF FACT). Then after not having committed an Act of War, they sent a peace proposal and that should stop us sinking the Belgrano (LACK OF FACT). If it wasn't such an un-sporting turkey-shoot we should have sunk all their boats.
Their school books must be hilarious.
58 kbec ,again changing my mane ?? can I call you stupid then ?
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All your sentences are down mate. go back to school. you should not LIE and you did it... you can re- read my last comment, you changed dates of sinking vessels.
try again...
remember, my e mail address is luissuriani@hotmail.com. you can use french, spanish, english, portuguese or some italian as well.
c u miss educated folk....
Argfag-o-meter just bent around the top limit.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Pearl harbour was action of war because japanese KILLED AMERICANS, argentineans did not kill a single soldier or civilian, then this IS NOT act of war, again, go to the books mate.... you are far away from a right example, try again....”
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your troops go into another country's territory and shoot at that nations armed forces(Our marines) and this is not an act of war?
Your troops failed to kill one marine, while almost loosing a ship, commander and several troops. This is due to the general crappyness of your forces and is not something you should be proud of.
31 and 42 GreekYoghurt
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Raul I have read this letter and is very funny. The man is clearly in need of some publicity and it sounded like a new Mouth of Sauron. Not all of them there is the same as writing?
Nobel Prize winner should have been stripped of his prize for not knowing this.
We have much to learn. You have a total lack of ideology of Nestor and Cristina Kirchner. I can not help. For you all very funny because you hold ideas based on Nazism, fascism and its variants in English colonialism and imperialism. For you are very funny the Nazi death camps and state terrorism. For you is very normal that your culture racism and allowed the extermination of entire races in Africa and Asia. No wonder you fear and hate and annoy you the Nobel Peace prize. Because they hold the peace and dialogue. Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Joseph Goebbels, Margaret Thatcher, Pinochet, Videla, Galtieri would be happy with you because they hated the Nobel prizes and have the same thought based on death, not life and human rights.
You really are pathetic and pitiful.
Learn from John Lennon and Perez Esquivel, Nobel Peace Prize. They fight for a better world and peace ... Remember this well forever. War is a cowardly thing. Peace is a matter of courage.
43 Xect
Raul, I'm waiting for you to answer my question.
What sense does it answer if you keep insulting and making fun of all Latin Americans in general and Argentina in particular. You have no positive idea for you all negative. God help you.
@65 Just because you keep saying the word peace, and using Goebbels style slogans like 'Malvinas son onos!' and 'Give peace a chance!', doesn't mean these methods work on INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. Read any book on social psychology and you'll find they're particularly useful for NOT-INTELLIGENT PEOPLE. Hitler used slogans like 'Arbeit Macht Frei' and 'Ja!' to great effect.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kircho and Nesto have an extension of the Ideology called 'Peronism' you can read any old book on Peronism and it'll explain their ideology.It's expansionist, and like Peron himself, aligned with National Socialist governments such as Nazi Germany and Mussolinis italy. I don't need to repeat this.
You come from a country that destroyed its indigenous population, just like Hitler tried to kill all the jews. So I will not talk to you more on that issue. Maybe you need to read about the Odessa ratlines in 1946 to understand your country more.
@kbec
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m still curious what language do you write and speak for business? Come bro tell me swahili or paki?
@67 Hmm... ODESSAfag + Overt Racism = Argfag
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 067 DanyBerger (#)
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can tell you have no experience of British English because you have just used a word that would be considered deeply offensive and would get you banned from a UK forum.
I only feel sorry for the poor arguments of the inhabitants of the Falklands for JOINING only wealth that belongs to Argentina. Hopefully the law will prevail not only the strongest will prevail but also history, geographical reasons and international law only reason to give the Argentine claim. And the ground made the bogus self-determination. (this right is only when you're a native, is not the case invaded the islands in 1833 and the English settlers brought)
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@70 if law prevails, the UK+FI wins. if history prevails, then UK+FI wins. if peace prevails then UK+FI wins. If international law prevails then UK+FI wins. Geography? who the hell selects sovereignty based on geography. if self determination then UK+FI wins.
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have absolutely no rights or sovereignty. Have fun at the ICJ getting a ruling on all the above.
@Idlehands
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you sure?
I’ve learned from Harry mate, “Prince Harry brands friend ”My little Paki Friend””. It cannot be bad if your royal family us it? Am I wrong?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63w98Nioz2w
Are you sure that you know English people because when I was in Britain I heard a lot that term from white British yes even if its hard to believe there are still few of them on the Islands.
Now what’s the size of your turbant mate?
Apparently mr tin man may apply to the CFKCC,
Feb 23rd, 2012 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[CFK’S CHILDRENS COURT? ] to get support,
.
72 DanyBerger
Feb 24th, 2012 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was in Britain in 2004 and they treat all there Indians like they treat the indigenous British population, many of their Indians are more patriotic towards Britain than the British it is disgust me. They are sick people.
In Argentina we know how to treat Indians. We kill them! Or send them to work in fields.
As for Mulato's!!!!
Mussolini knew how to treat people. Peron's liked Mussolini as do CFK. She is good for Argentina. She show Britain how much we hate them and the pirates that live on our islands before our country even exist.
We must hate more, I don't think we hate enough. With enough hate we can conquer them and become big power of South America. We must become greater than Brazil a country of criminals and Mulato's!!!!
Ok who's with me here (i know Malv and Jorge wont be so neither of you need to respond)!!
Feb 24th, 2012 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0SUPPORT THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF ARGENTINA PARTY
(we could call it STIPOAP which i thinks got a good ring to it!)
Manifesto:
Reclaim the country that is rightfully theirs
I call on all, Mapuche, Kolla, Toba, Guaraní, Wichi, Diaguita-Calchaquí , Mocoví , Huarpe, Comechingón, Tehuelche, Quechua, Charrúa, Pilagá, Chané, Chorote, and the Selknam (Ona) people (who are now virtually extinct in their pure form) to get the ball rolling.
Get rid of (in Jorges words) hispanic squatters.
@75 I don't think the ODESSA nazis are going to be happy about you creating a new political party. I think they just put in new legalislation to ensure political parties all support the peronist ideology ... and your ideology is asking the UN for a ruling on decolonisation of Argentina.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I like the idea, I just cannot see the UN going for it, because the UN typically just colonises countries (e.g. Gibraltar, Falklands, Dokdo, etc)
@75
Feb 24th, 2012 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0One of the latest studies on Argentine genetics gives us a figure of 56% of people having Native blood.
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/2005/01/16/sociedad/s-03415.htm
Ask that 56% too. All who has Native blood should participate in a voting on your ideas.
@77 I wouldn't believe that research as far as I could throw it. With the current emergence of government tampering with national financial data, I'm pretty sure they're doing the same with academic data to make it look like they didn't shoot everyone not-white.
Feb 24th, 2012 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 074 Filippo
Feb 24th, 2012 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Flippy off,
Bunga bunga
77 JuanStanic
I would say, if you wish to go down that road,
Then I suggest at least 100% would have African DNA considering that’s where most of us come from,
[I say most of us, because you never know, do you ? ]
.
@77
Feb 25th, 2012 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0you's 56% monkey maybe
@80 Technically we're all 99.999% whelk... just some are more whelk than others.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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