MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands/Malvinas: an open letter to Sean Penn
Dear Sean,
I am writing in response to your comment in today's Guardian (23 February). We seem to have missed each other when you were recently in Buenos Aires. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYour CommentMr Penn goes to Argentina, is given the red carpet treatment, the propaganda spiel and suddenly he is hooked, line and sinker-ed into Argentina's relentless barrage of insults and rhetoric over the Falkland Islands.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Penn demonstrates his complete naivety, while the Argentine government demonstrate their complete and fanatical devotion to the Falklands - a land they are not even able to call be its actual name. The name the people who have lived there for 189 years call it. The same people the Argentine government refuse to recognising have the right to self determination of their own sovereignty!
Mr Penn going to Argentina and speaking on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands would be like Hugh Grant going to Mexico and requesting the US government to enter into sovereignty negotiations with Mexico over Florida. Florida has never belonged to Mexico but it is closer to Mexico than Washington and it has belonged to both Spain and Britain, offering up a good analogy with the Falkland Islands! The only thing missing is a fanatical fascist government in Mexico and a long standing dispute, with a history of Mexican aggression, threats and economic terrorism on the part of the Mexicans.
Sean Penn belongs to the Mel Gibson camp of political science - everything in the world can be explained in terms of a enormous Zionist conspiracy that began with the crucification of Christ and has been perpetuated by a Jewish banking cartel and an English monarchy using secret societies, who in tandem control the entire world... apart - that is - from countries like Venezuela, Syria, Iran and - it would seem - Argentina!
The guy repeatedly states throughout this article that he was not taking a side in the dispute, while repeatedly backing stating his one sided views and demonstrating his one sided understanding of the dispute, its history and the Falkland Islands.
The guy is a moron and so are those who seem to think he has anything useful to say.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 02 Raul
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one is interested in what you say. Keep threatening to kill people Raul! You have been reported to the appropriate authorities.
3 row82
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are pathetic and sad:
Did you God to decide on what matters to people? You thought a typical Nazi-Fascism. Many people are interested in what I say.
We notice that you have not read the link. Want to scare people? You threatened to kill people.
In what authorities are you talking about? Please ..........
Read the link and then think
4 Raul
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only people interested in what you have to say are other fanatical nationalists like yourself. Stop threatening to kill the Prince.
When you are able to look at two sides instead of your own, warped fanatical nationalist one, come back and debate. Until then no one is interested, apart from those who share your childish mentality.
@3 You're not wrong.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 I've never heard of Adolfo Perez Esquivel. I don't know why he gave peace to this world by not supporting self-determination. He generally doesn't sound very peaceful or caring.
I think it's between him and Norway why he got a peace prize, but if it was my peace prize, I'd be asking for it back.
Now you can get back to your love-swing, gimp.
@3 You're not wrong.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 I've never heard of Adolfo Perez Esquivel. I don't know why he gave peace to this world by not supporting self-determination. He generally doesn't sound very peaceful or caring.
I think it's between him and Norway why he got a peace prize, but if it was my peace prize, I'd be asking for it back.
Just shut up yoghurt..NO BODY care s about you or the nazi brits...They are NOOO body..
Does “Raul” claim to be Argentinian?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 08 Englander
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think any of them posting here actually live in Argentina, they all left to go and leach off some other country, while they cry about the Malvinas all day and dream about marching boots stamping all over our islands.
7 Malvinero1 temper temper... dont copy and paste something you´re regret ! We know you hate the British yet you type in English or just copying and translate to English either way your not a nice chap it seems.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 05 row82
Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why does he keep lying? I never said I want to threaten or kill the prince.
Read the link and then opine.
I return to the question Did you God? Why would you deny people the right to have other views?
You are very proud. Claims the freedom and the opinion of others.
You said: Until then no one is interested, as well as those who share their child mind.
Everybody is concerned and have no child mentality.
Read the link and then opine. Please ........
we have never put aside the sov claim. Why should we put it under umbrella?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a dispute nobody can amke unilateral decissions about nothing, specially the resources brit is stealing.
the Malvinas are a militar base for trainning troops that then go to Afghanistán, Iraq, etc and also trains princes to save all nationalities lives??? how wonderful, vietnameses hopefully knew to swim.
the theme of mines (in which there are some UK interests, La alumbrera) was in all channels of TV. Specially there two media groups to opposite K, showing all time that with democracy and freedom.
blockade never existed. the flag you can change it. these squatters are squidmillonaires, not so far away they were offering cocodrile on their meals, travel 4x4, etc. recently went uruguayans fro trade, etc.
and arg arent available to settle on the isles, we were expelled before and never could return. no matter what they say, it is what it is.
and about human rights and all your perorata you are so fond of, are you going to be selling arms to the rebels it was said on tv?? ah yes it is for peace, I know.
and in Afghanistán, 10 years of militar occupation, 1 million people killed, bin laden killed , have stolen everything and peace?'''' you are getting afghans every day more angry, by mistake burning their coran. better rajen (run very quickly) .
2 Raul, Thanks for posting “Letter from Adolfo Perez Esquivel, Nobel Peace Prize to David Cameron”
Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very interesting, I am looking forward to see that letter in MercoPress one day.
This Guy always has a unique insight, interspersed with humor: He did it again in this article:
Feb 25th, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.expatdailynewslatinamerica.com/2012/02/sean-penn-comes-to-argentina.html#more
Poor guy, he will never be as popular as Sean Penn. This is a desperate attempt to promote his blog?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The very fact that Mr. Burns has remained so long in Argentina unmolested, and that this Merco Press obvious Foreign Office seudo-journalistic operation exists, show that if there is anyone sputtering Fascist-like propaganda here it is not a Latin American country but the Unglorious United (?) Kingdom of Great Britain, Wales, Scotland and the Northern Irish illegitimate settlement around Belfast. The skeleton of Dr. Goebbels must smile in his tomb at the sight of his enemies in World War II resorting to the same bullying and lying tactics that the Third Reich used against the peoples in Europe they were intending to attack. This is nothing new, by the way. British lies and concoctions are well known the world over, particularly in the South Atlantic and Latin America. Here, British greed and cunning were wise and far-fetched, starting with their support of our local Quisling regimes in the 19th Century, prior to their grabbing Latin American land in Malvinas AND ELSEWHERE. As compared to those masterpieces of perfidy, their current hysterical claims that those lands belong to them by any other reason than brutal force call for pity. I don't expect MercoPress to publish these lines, nor do I expect any of its pro-British readers to like them. Britain has always thought through its purse, and the settlement in Malvinas has never had any other sense. Today's Brits bleed only because Argentina has deprived them and their claim of any legitimacy and moral standing. They know this is a war they should never lose. But they will, as they did and will do the globe over.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 011 Raul
Feb 25th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You an obnoxious little turd, we know exactly what you meant, you arse-wipe
13 Marcos Alejandro, yes that's right, egg on your fellow creep
@ Why would we read something from an 80 year old suffering from senile dementia? You do realise his Prize was 32 years ago, don't you?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Oh dear, Marvin, you really are losing it, aren't you? Actually, it is people like you and your hate-ridden pals that nobody cares about. Now let's look at your last few words. The British who fought for 6 years against nazism whilst people of your ilk stayed out of it but welcomed the nazi war criminals at the end so you could act in the same way. Had Hitler still been alive, he would no doubt be envious of your capability to fly your unwanted over the ocean and toss them out. 1982 and the Dirty War are the responsibility of every argie.
@11 Is it your eyes or your reading ability? This is a copy and paste from your comment @2 “be prepared to kill the prince.” Those are YOUR words. While you are trying to work out how to weasel out of that bald statement, could you explain “Did you God?” Somewhere in a sentence of this description, there should be a verb. Surprisingly. “God” is not a verb!
@12 Do you realise that your comment is essentially unintelligible? On-line translators are just not that good. Best thing you can do is to find someone who can actually speak English. Until then you are wasting your time.
@13 Bit of a waste of time. I can't find any indication that David Cameron speaks or reads Spanish. So writing such an “open letter” is quite discourteous. To reprint it elsewhere without it having been read by the intended recipient is even more discourteous. But that is how argies are, isn't it?
Of course, Jimmy Burns makes a number of points that el P-E-N.. could have taken the time to learn before he opened his trap and forced both his feet into it. Still, I suppose argies need something. Tin Man has proved, yet again, what a tit he is. And an embarrassment. Surely he's qualified for a free air trip and swim by now?
I thought the article was very well written by someone who has undoubted experience in, and of, Argentina.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must be the truth because it has wound up the usual garrulous mouthed Argentino vermin into a right old tizzy.
I really doubt if Penn could understand the big, grown up words used however. Perhaps his new friends can ellucidate it for him with more lies. :o)
@16 Sorrudeternalpa - How long did take you to put together such drivel?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The very fact that Mr. Burns has remained so long in Argentina unmolested”
You make sound like an achievement
“show that if there is anyone sputtering Fascist-like propaganda here it is not a Latin American country but the Unglorious United (?) Kingdom of Great Britain,”
You have been fascist so long, it must feel normal for you to want to always claim other peoples land.
“Britain has always thought through its purse, and the settlement in Malvinas has never had any other sense”
It’s pity Argentina doesn’t think more through its purse it, wouldn’t be bankrupt, With Argentina a neighbour of the Falklands, it makes perfect sense
“The skeleton of Dr. Goebbels must smile in his tomb at the sight of his enemies in World War II resorting to the same bullying and lying tactics that the Third Reich”
Yes you like the thought of Goebbels smiling in his grave don’t you, but escaped Nazis criminals went to Argentina not the UK
“British lies and concoctions are well known the world over, particularly in the South Atlantic and Latin America”
Well you have to blame someone else don’t you, to explain why you’re bankrupt
“Argentina has deprived them and their claim of any legitimacy and moral standing. They know this is a war they should never lose. But they will, as they did and will do the globe over.”
Are ALL Argentinians as deluded as you, Argentina has no moral standing, you’re bankrupt and the British have retrenched to be in much better shape than you
15 Alejomartinez
“Poor guy, he will never be as popular as Sean Penn. This is a desperate attempt to promote his blog”
God yet another zombie, Penn will only popular in Argentina (where they must like wife beaters) and who but wants to be popular in Argentina?.
@18 Well, if Camaron and you as a senior are looking to preserve and enhance your grey matter as you age, there are lots of things you can do, one of them is to learn a new language so you can read “Letter from Adolfo Perez Esquivel, Nobel Peace Prize to David Cameron”
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.adolfoperezesquivel.org/?p=951
13 Marcos Alejandro
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks to you to understand and clarify the dispute over sovereignty of the Malvinas. AFTER The Link was censured by Mercopress. Practice Editor's regrettable that censorship facts and evidence for Argentina in the Malvinas sovereignty.
This is the Link of the Charter of Adolfo Perez Esquivel, Nobel Peace Prize to David Cameron Mercopress blame.
http://www.adolfoperezesquivel.org/?p=951
face1354@hotmail.com
Looks like Argentina could be on the verge of another economic breakdown:
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/02/24/argentinas-trade-surplus-few-cause-for-celebration/#axzz1nQW2WnZP
As for La Campora; disgusting. Reminds me of The Hitler Youth. Very sinister.
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/02/24/argentinas-trade-surplus-few-cause-for-celebration/#axzz1nQW2WnZP
@12 malen – Are you just jealous? Because your stupid Kirchner screwed up any chance of sharing in the Falkland’s wealth
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21 Marcos Alejandro - Your concern should be to de-brainwash yourself or haven't you got the grey matter?
@22 Raul You're like something nasty you have trodden in, that you can't get off your shoe
18 vos no entendés lo que no te conviene, Coquito
Feb 25th, 2012 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0in my perfect use of english (10 years answering questions of multiple choice, the way it is taught here)
you (Coquito) dont understand what it is not convenient for you (Coquito)
I also understand portuguese and italian when talking or reading, natural skills, never studied them.....
@25 malen – I make grammatical mistakes I know, but your English isn’t as good as you think it is.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“12 malen - we have never put aside the sov claim. Why should we put it under (an)umbrella?
There is a dispute nobody can (amke) unilateral (decissions) about nothing, specially the resources brit is stealing.”
What I have a problem with, isn’t your English it’s your ethics, wanting to steal from others, Argentinians has this instinct to look around to see what you can get, instead of sorting out your country’s real and overwhelming problems !
Is it a full moon? Posters seem even more rabid than usual today.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im laughing of my english!!! I understand better than what I can write....
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have oil, dont need that. forget it. Although we dont get it, our country buys a lot. we dont steal.
The wish of the Falkland islanders not to be Argentine even if Argentines are quite free to visit and settle on the islands if they wish.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0jimmy: LIAR,Malvinenses can settle freely in Argentina and buy land.The Argentines,CANNOT.PELOTUDO
Mr Penn goes to Argentina, is given the red carpet treatment, the propaganda spiel and suddenly he is hooked, line and sinker-ed into Argentina's relentless barrage of insults and rhetoric over the Falkland Islands.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Penn demonstrates his complete naivety, while the Argentine government demonstrate their complete and fanatical devotion to the Falklands - a land they are not even able to call be its actual name. The name the people who have lived there for 189 years call it. The same people the Argentine government refuse to recognising have the right to self determination of their own sovereignty!
Mr Penn going to Argentina and speaking on the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands would be like Hugh Grant going to Mexico and requesting the US government to enter into sovereignty negotiations with Mexico over Florida. Florida has never belonged to Mexico but it is closer to Mexico than Washington and it has belonged to both Spain and Britain, offering up a good analogy with the Falkland Islands! The only thing missing is a fanatical fascist government in Mexico and a long standing dispute, with a history of Mexican aggression, threats and economic terrorism on the part of the Mexicans.
Sean Penn belongs to the Mel Gibson camp of political science - everything in the world can be explained in terms of a enormous Zionist conspiracy that began with the crucification of Christ and has been perpetuated by a Jewish banking cartel and an English monarchy using secret societies, who in tandem control the entire world... apart - that is - from countries like Venezuela, Syria, Iran and - it would seem - Argentina!
The guy repeatedly states throughout this article that he was not taking a side in the dispute, while repeatedly backing stating his one sided views and demonstrating his one sided understanding of the dispute, its history and the Falkland Islands.
The guy is a moron and so are those who seem to think he has anything useful to say.
29 Malvinero1
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinenses? What are these? Do these come from the same family of INBRED FASCISTS like you?
Their are no such thing as Malvineses! You child.
Please come to the Falklands. You can take a walk on one of your fascist mine fields, you neglected to map contrary to the Geneva Convention.
Bring you friends. Wear some uniforms if you want.
@28 malen,
Feb 25th, 2012 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you don't steal” ha ha ha
What about the land that Argentina stole from Paraguay in 1871?
What about the land that Argentina stole from the native people in Patagonia(after killing them!)in the 1880s.
You steal & you lie.
Argentina has NEVER owned the Falklands & never will.
So get lost.
@29Malvinero1,
So what Malvin.
We have a right to say who comes here, to OUR land & who cannot.
YOU have NO RIGHTS here & cannot force us to to do what you want.
Get lost.
We don't need idiots like you cluttering up the countryside.
29 Malvinero1
Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Agentinians were allowed to buy land in The Falklands, for the Falklander to get the same percentage of Argentina that an Argentinian would buy in the Falklands they would have to buy land 230% larger
But it's not going happen because Argentinians can't be trusted
I support the burning of any pirate ships in the area and all illegal immigrants and british illegal aliens to be deported from Malvinas Argentina.
Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”In 2005, Australia put in place a National Plan of Action against illegal fishing (pdf). Rear Admiral Tim Barrett, Commander of Border Protection says, “In 2006/07 specific funding was given to Customs and Border Protection and AFMA to deter illegal foreign fishing in northern waters.” The impetus for funding was propelled out of concern for protection of our own fish stocks, but also by a UN International Plan of Action, signed by 110 nations in 2001.
Between July 2007 and July 2008, 186 boats were apprehended, 141 of these were Indonesian-owned boats. The entire crews were arrested and transferred to immigration detention centres, their boats towed to the nearest port - most often Darwin - and burnt.”
They do say, that jealousy and envy are a product of a spurned woman,
Feb 25th, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now we all know CFK is a spurned woman, turned down by the islanders, and usurped by the British,
She turns to her kittens for support, as we all see, the kittens follow each other and do and meows the same lingo, but we expect nothing else,
Argentina aggression will be met with cold steel, stern words, and evil glances, [and that’s her own people]
But to be fair all kittens have to learn some basic facts,
1, shit on your own patch, and not on the floors of others,
2, don’t steal what is not yours
3, be grateful for what you have, as there are others that have less.
4, don’t pick on smaller things, they bite back,?
5, don’t sniff the back sides of others,[its naughty, and unhygienic .
Don’t go getting irate because you beat fair and square.
And most important of all, mummy won’t be around looking after you forever.
So accept the reality of life, they aren’t yours, never was, and never will be,
But if you keep pushing and pushing, you may very well end up with nothing.
The Falklands are British, until they freely say otherwise, so please get use to it, and stop threatening others. Ditto .
.
How do you deal with a country which is chronically unable to tell the truth to itself or to anybody else ?
Feb 25th, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A country called WalterMittyLand ( or Argentina).Not just about The Falklands but now also about economic national statistics (according to The Economist. )
I see another economic collapse in process.
Jimmy with burns..... no problem, in this moment Jean must be thinking your open letter, and soon will answer it, stupid!
Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0These “people” are very angry at a simple actor statements. ¿Why could that be? I'm interested to know!
Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0As some argentineans have said, ¿Why MercoPress continually ignores the letter of a nobel prize and others in favour of the argentine claim and at the same time publish every crap from Mr nobodys that appears on the net?
We all know that MercoPress is on-line pro-kelper propaganda, but it could desimulate just a little. Just a sugestion.
@36 Argfagia is like a stray dog because it's owner Hitler died a while ago. If your stray dog tries to bite you (1982), you smack it on the nose. If it tries to bite you again (2012), you get the vet to put it down.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like their trains are just utterly f*cked though (http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/02/23/argentina-train-crash-an-avoidable-tragedy/) so no point bombing them, just keep them going.
34 Pirat-Hunter
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0quote: “I support the burning of any pirate ships in the area and all illegal immigrants and british illegal aliens to be deported from Malvinas Argentina.”
These comments are inciting hate and encouraging violence against the people of the Falkland Islands.
That are commonly held views of Argentine nationalist fascists, who call the Falkland Islanders, quote “pirates”, “illegal British aliens”, while referring to the Falkland Island's, permanently settled for 189 years by Falkland Islanders as “Malvinas, Argentina”.
Their rhetoric makes some of the pre war propaganda of the Nazi's look tame.
The sooner Argentina is dealt with by the international community the better.
Pirat-Hunter:
Previously you called for British people to be killed. Not only have I logged your posts and ISP address but I have reported you to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
34 Pirate
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does your mother and father know you're doing this again. Well I guess they'd prefer you stay on this web site rather than all the porn ones you frequent.
36 Strategicus
I guess if they started telling the truth to their people now they'd have full scale rioting on their hands.
37 Nitro
Who is Jean?
38 Jorge
I'm not angry about Sean Penn. I think everyone in any sort of position of influence knows he is of no consequence. He reminds me of all of the B and C grade celebs who go on dumb reality shows trying to restart their careers. He's a has-been actor with a criminal record. KFC can keep wheeling him out if she wants. She'll just have to be careful not to let him take part in any sort of live debate with someone from the other side who knows what they're talking about. But then of course she is very good at keeping that barrier up now. That's why all you clowns think she's right. LOL!
41 The Falklands are British (#)
Feb 26th, 2012 - 02:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sean Penn is an aggressive, has been, with an anger management problem, who has bought his way into an “ambassadorship” post with the Haiti government - who are desperate for all the money and high profile help they can get.
http://www.dippedincream.com/sean-penn-should-go-to-jail-the-end/
The guy is a criminal. I wonder how much of his multi-million dollar bank account he has donated to the people of Haiti? Maybe his only interest is to find a soap box to stand on in order to rant.
Looks like their trains are just utterly f*cked though (blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/02/23/argentina-train-crash-an-avoidable-tragedy/) so no point bombing them, just keep them going.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let see the IDiot yoghurt:
5 October 1999 31 523 Main article: Ladbroke Grove rail crash
Great Western Main Line, Ladbroke Grove, 5 October 1999; 31 killed, 523 injured: driver passed signal at danger; head-on collision and fire; allegations that signal (SN109) was hard to see.[42]
43 74 Moorgate Underground rail crash, 28 February 1975; 43 killed, 74 injured: Driver failed to stop for unknown reason, train ran through station at speed into blind end of tunnel.[61]
112 340 Harrow and Wealdstone railway accident station, 8 October 1952; 112 killed, 340 injured: train ignored signals, rear-end collision, then train the other way ran into wreckage.[72]
At this rate,you will kill yourself!!
Anyway,I will never be happy for that to any nation!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_accidents_in_the_United_Kingdom#Worst_accidents
43 Malvi
Feb 26th, 2012 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bit touchy about your 50 year old trains aren't you? They, like the Argentine economy are fucked my friend. Have you had your shots tonight yet? Does a nurse come around and administer them or do you do it yourself?
LOL!
The Annual Pantomime begins :-)
Feb 26th, 2012 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/859/
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/859/
Jimmy Burns only repeats the british lies. He mixes everything to defend the wrong arguments of uk. He mixes Galtieri, economy, ecology, everything whith the only objetive to hide the true: The Malvinas Islands belong to Argentina and it will never change and they must be returned. This fact doesn´t depend of the government in turn. Everybody knows that the self-determination doesn´t apply in the Malvinas case. The UN has said it in a lot of Resolutions and asked to both the parties to negotiate this issue but uk denied to do it, this country only use the military force to maintain the usurpation, please read only a little before publishing this kind of letters. Please don´t repeat again the british partial story, nobody with an impartial view believes in these lies. I´m not from Argentina but it´s obviously that this man doesn´t provide any valid argument ,he only mixes everything with the only objetive to confuse and to continue hiding the truth.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@46johnfarrel2050,
Feb 26th, 2012 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on your bum.
lt is impossible to “return”the Falklands(there are no malvinas).
To return something means that the returnee ownd whatever it was in the first place.
Argentina has NEVER owned the Falklands.
Now its “everybody knows”.
Before it was “the whole world knows”!
Silly, silly little man.
John with respect nothing must be returned. The UK can hold and control the islands as long as the people want it too and Argentina is absolutely powerless to alter that.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Everyone knows that self-determination doesn't apply' Who is this everyone? Also if that truly is the case why does Argentina refuse the offer of dealing with this through the ICJ?
The UK has not used military force to maintain its position, explain to me why you think it has? All it has done in the past 30 years is defended 3,000 islanders from yet another illegal Argentinean invasion.
As for the UN that has in the past raised some non-binding resolutions requesting the UK and Argentina engage in talks which are purely optional and the UK has decided to decline the offer which is perfectly acceptable to the UN.
'Nobody believes in these views' - You can't rewrite reality my friend even if you wish to do so and unfortunately it seems a great deal of the world outside of the South America does indeed believe in these views hence one of the reasons its so easy for the UK to maintain its position.
'The truth' - The truth is Argentina doesn't have a case hence its refusal to go to the international courts of justice because if it did it would lose and then once and for all we'd be able to put this debate to bed.
@47 and @48 Obviously you are british and you are only repeating the lies told by your country. I don´t expect something different from you. However, please read the letter sent by Adolfo Pérez Esquivel (who is the Nobel Peace Prize) to Cameron, you can find this letter in the link copied below. I Know that this letter is written in spanish but if you need, you can translate it.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.adolfoperezesquivel.org/?p=951
@49 - Your assumptions are incorrect in my case and I'm not subject to these so called lies.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your assumptions maybe are the reason why you do not have a clear view of the situation.
If you believe anyone who holds a different position is doing so from a place of lies that says a lot more about you than it does about me.
I have indeed already read that letter but thanks for posting it, its clearly one sided and has a huge bias.
Maybe you need to ask yourself, what is the truth or am I subject to the lies of another nation? Or maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle?
Because from your posts, I do not believe you have at all considered the UK's irrefutable evidence.
There is a reason why the UN doesn't create any binding resolutions against the UK or investigate the situation other than occasionally encourage discussions as it did in 1988 (the last time) with non-binding resolutions. In this aspect its quite clear the UN doesn't believe there is a case to answer but encourages peaceful diplomacy so we don't have a repeat of the Argentine embarrassment and failure of 82'.
There are no UN Resolutions which state that the Falkland Islanders do not have the right to self determination.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are many UN Resolutions that state that the peoples of non-self-governing territories have the right to self-determination.
The Falkland Islanders are listed by the UN as a non-self-governing territory.
Resolution 2625 gives all non-self-governing territories a status separate to that of their Administering power - “ .. and such separate and distinct status under the Charter shall exist until the people of the colony or Non-Self-Governing Territory have exercised their right of self-determination in accordance with the Charter, ”
Resolution 2625 is not well known in Argentina.
Argentines do not like uncomfortable facts !
51) Mr Lorton
Feb 26th, 2012 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0And thats exactly why the UN considers the “Non-Self-Governing Territory of the Malvinas/Falkland Islands” to be a “Special Case” and invariably refers to the population of the “Non-Self-Governing Territory of the Malvinas/Falkland Islands” as a “Population”, not as a “People”.
@52 Think, do you want to explain why Argentina tells the UK to comply with non-binding resolutions and then doesn't comply with binding Security Council Ruling 502? No Argentinian has told me yet why you refuse to comply with binding resolutions and instead choose to emphasize draft resolutions from the C24?
Feb 26th, 2012 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0my favourite part of 2625 made in 1970 (which doesn't exist in Argentina) is “A war of aggression constitutes a crime against the peace, for which there is responsibility under international law.”, seems like you ignored that one too then.
Are there any resolutions that Argentina has actually not-ignored?
@52 Squatter Think,
Feb 26th, 2012 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Answer the man, dear Think.
lf you can!
What a good article, the truth hurts doesn't it and you can always tell when someone hits that nerve, all the demons appear and right some nasty stuff to vent their frustrations and anger at what they cannot and never will be able to change! I was 7 years old when the Argentines invaded my home country and i shall never forgive what they did, they had no right and still have no right to threaten the Falkland Islanders like they are. I watched Mr Timerman in action, making his pathetic and whining case to the UN, what an embarrassment he must be to his country, he was complaining about the British militarising the South Atlantic, anyone who knows their stuff knows that the military presence in the Falkland Islands is all because of Argentinas threat over the islands, the military are there to protect the Falkland Islanders, no other reason!
Feb 26th, 2012 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just remind myself that there are some sensible people out there and i hope that the UN does stick by it's rules and principles.
@49johnfarrel2050
Feb 26th, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have an Irish name so I am assuming you are Irish or of Irish descent .
As you may or may not know the Irish are the original 'Pritish' as discovered by the Romans.
For most of the recent history of the 'Pritish Isles' the people of the two larger islands got on quite well with each other .At one point about 50% of the British Army was comprised of Irishmen.The Irish were an essential component in the building of the British Empire. On the Queen's visit to Dublin President Mary McAleese claimed the Duke of Wellington as one of Ireland's own.
One of the major 'recent' tragedies was the Famine which was caused more by official incompetence than by ill intent (to all but hardline Irish Republicans ).The other major tragedy was the split between the islands(1916 -1923 ; orchestrated by extreme Republicans) which led to the emigration of the most productive third of the Irish population(mainly to Britain), the ethnic cleansing of 90% of the Protestant population as well as such things as the anti Jewish pogroms in Limerick and other places.This was done under the watchful eye of the Irish Fascist clone Eamon de Valera.This and the 'economic war' waged by Eire against Britain meant that it was trapped in a cycle of poverty which led amongst other things to the near self destruction of the Irish whiskey industry and the rise of the Scotch whisky industry.
Irish historians are now revising their view of history to point out the evils of the extreme republicans and the good things about the links to Britain; something which resonates in the young of Ireland if the comments on Irish newspaper websites are anything to go by.
A good part of my blood is Irish as are many of my inlaws.Jeremy Paxmans recent comments on the Famine have triggered strong pro as well as anti British replies eg; would Ireland prefer a population of 80 million impoverished overcrowded people instead of a rich contented diaspora scattered across the world .
@46 johnfarrel2050
Feb 26th, 2012 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The Malvinas Islands belong to Argentina and it will never change and they must be returned”
“Please don´t repeat again the british partial story, nobody with an impartial view believes in these lies”
You actually consider yourself impartial do you ???????????????????
@40 Anti-Fascist
“Previously you called for British people to be killed. Not only have I logged your posts and ISP address but I have reported you to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.”
Nice one !!!
@Redcoat “would have to buy land 230% larger”
I was conducting an Argentinian IQ test and they failed it’s 230 ‘times’ larger
@ 52 Think – You’ve been asked a question by GreekYoghurt in post 53 what’s the answer? Think man, try to think, you shouldn’t just espouse claims without justifying them, or didn’t they indoctrinate you enough to cover that bit, so try to think,Think, for God’s sake Think!!!
#52 - where does the UN GA say that - exactly ??
Feb 26th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please Think- before answering !
(Sorry about the copypasta, I just got no response)
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@52 Think, do you want to explain why Argentina tells the UK to comply with non-binding resolutions and then doesn't comply with binding Security Council Ruling 502? No Argentinian has told me yet why you refuse to comply with binding resolutions and instead choose to emphasize draft resolutions from the C24?
@56 I'm not irish; Michael Flatley doesn't like my dancing.
(58) Mr. Lorton
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I repeat:
“The UN considers the “Non-Self-Governing Territory of the Malvinas/Falkland Islands” to be a “Special Case” and invariably refers to the population of the “Non-Self-Governing Territory of the Malvinas/Falkland Islands” as a “Population”, not as a “People”.
We have been through this a couple of times before.
We both know exactly where the UN says the above........., don't try to play ”UNGA ” games with me....., lad.
@21 Sorry. I've always resisted learning “gibberish”.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 “Oh, look. Here's someone suffering from senile dementia that thinks the way I do.”@
@25 “in my perfect use of english” AAHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. The six year old child next door speaks better English than you do.
@28 “we dont steal.” What do you call it then? Or is it that you don't “steal” until you are caught?
@29 What sensible person would want an argie living in their country?
@34 Shame it isn't going to happen. Try it. How do you reckon the destruction of your cities.....sorry, hovels?
@38 Want to look up the crap your Plastic President comes out with? Then gets upset when we respond. Why did your cuntry feel the need to publicise the mouthings of an actor?
@46 You're dribbling. You don't have the brain to type anything intelligible. Despite questions, you have NEVER set forth a valid basis for the argiefags' claim. Because you can't. You don't have the brain for that either.
@49 You know where you can shove Adolfo Pérez Esquivel! I'll read something you get from Stephen Hawking.
The Falkland Islands are free! And British! Until the Falkland Islanders say otherwise. NO-ONE in argieland or anywhere in south america has the ability or power to change that.
@60 Prove it, kiddikins! Oh, I meant Squatter kiddikins!
@60 THINK, are you pathologically incapable of answering why Argentina felt it didn't want to comply with binding Security Council Resolution 502? (Forget the others, they're not binding)
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 doesn't say a lot for world peace if Adolfo Pérez Esquivel is stoking up conflict based chat. Who is he anyways?
62 Greek
Feb 26th, 2012 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Careful, if you push this guy too hard he will get insulted and throw his toys out of his pram. He has very thin skin for someone who likes to dish it out so much.
60 Think
Bit of a sulky boy really aren't you.
I cannot believe that society has become so enslaved to the musings of empty headed celebrities.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read a book by Burns a few years ago on the life of Maradona and it was a great read.
I wonder if Burns can see a possible shift of emphasis in this dispute when that Oil appears - as I see what is presently a dispute of sovereignty rapidly becoming a dangerous and potentially catastrophic struggle over the natural resources in a region that all South Americans will claim is theirs - thus shifting the issue into an entirely different sphere of influence ??
@64 dreyfoss
Feb 26th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I see what is presently a dispute of sovereignty rapidly becoming a dangerous and potentially catastrophic struggle over the natural resources in a region that all South Americans will claim is theirs - thus shifting the issue into an entirely different sphere of influence ??”
They may claim, but in the case of Falkland oil, I don’t think Chile or Uruguay will be a problem, as it’s in their interest to be supportive, so that they can benefit from it. Let’s hope they aren’t too frightened of their bankrupt neighbour, although desperate people do desperate things.
Which is why the Islanders put up with a 1000 or so heavily armed squaddies thrashing about their countryside.
@55 Dot
“I was 7 years old when the Argentines invaded my home country and i shall never forgive what they did, they had no right and still have no right to threaten the Falkland Islanders like they are”
Great motivational stuff, thanks for reminding us why we are spending our time arguing with such brainwashed Argie idiots
This guy is pathetic, as #46 says just mixing everything up, attacking Cristina from completely contradictory angles. It truly is a wonder that after almost a decade of Kirchnerism this expat can remain an immigrant fifth columnist (as some idiot called me on here once) in Argentina yet some posters here are still brazen enough to still call the beautiful princess of peace and progress a Nazi!
Feb 26th, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some of his greates howlers:
“Neither Christina Fernandez nor her husband Nestor played a prominent role in the resistance to the military after coup. Nor did they take a public stand against the invasion of the Faklands like Alfonsin did.”
They weren't public figures back then you idiot, they were young and although they couldn't be expected to lead the resistance at that age they were in the left movement and had friends thrown out of helicopters. And in her brilliant speech Cristina has made a cognet and mellifluos disection of the Galtieri invasion.
“Today the President, whose ideological ally is Chavez, is surrounded by...a praetorian guard of young nationalistic neo-Marxist Peronist activists”
Or as General Videla said, on being sent to prison in 2010, “the enemy of yesterday is now in power and building a Marxist state”. Btw I don't think it is a Marxist state but it seems Mr Burns agrees with the fascist general, which also contradicts his assertion above that the Ks weren't the junta's enemy.
Then he goes in the space of a sentence from denouncing the government as marxist to attacking it from the left over ecology, make your mind up is Cristina too capitalist or too socialist?!
“Clarin, Argentina's mass circulation paper that has been subjected to a relentless campaign of harassment”
So has the Murdoch press in Britain, and it should have happened years ago here, I'm glad that Cristina is not as slavish towards the overweening press barons as Blair Brown and, until it became impossible for him not to act, Cameron were. Clarin supported the junta too of course
Declaration regarding Non Self-Governing Territories
Feb 26th, 2012 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chapter XI of the United Nations Charter - the 'United Nations Declaration regarding non self-governing territories' - stated that it is an obligation incumbent upon member states which administer territories ”whose peoples have not yet attained a full measure of self-government to recognise the principle that the interests of the inhabitants of these territories are paramount, and to accept as a sacred trust the obligation to promote to the utmost, within the system of international peace and security established by the [United Nations] Charter, the well-being of the inhabitants of these territories, and, to this end (a) to ensure, with due respect for the culture of the peoples concerned, their political, economic, social, and educational advancement, their just treatment, and their protection against abuses; and (b) to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement....”
The Falkland Islanders are a people, the UN does say so, directly. It also refers to them as inhabitants and a population. but this does not mean they are not recognised as a people.
BTW note - direct quote of a UN document, you'll also no doubt note that unable to rebut such a quote, our resident liar will no doubt resort to smears and innuendo based on a lie.
#39 Your a sick bastard, gloating about the disaster, you remind me of that guy Fred Phelps who celebrates every disaster as God's punishment for gays, instead of “God hates fags” your motto could be “God hates argfags”
Feb 26th, 2012 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sean Penn wrote
Feb 26th, 2012 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still, the very people who suffered and fought most enduringly against this military Junta in Argentina are the ones who today lead that country
British Kirch wrote
they were young and although they couldn't be expected to lead the resistance at that age they were in the left movement and had friends thrown out of helicopters.
Hmm not exactly a contradiction but hardly the same either.
make your mind up is Cristina too capitalist or too socialist?!
Don't know but definitely too ugly!!
@66 British_Kirchnerist
Feb 26th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haven’t you emigrated to Argentina yet as you love them so much, no of course not you want to moan about other people’s traitors.
“yet some posters here are still brazen enough to still call the beautiful princess of peace and progress a Nazi!”
Well Nazis have a track record of stealing other people’s land.
68 British_Kirchnerist
“#39 Your a sick bastard, gloating about the disaster, you remind me of that guy Fred Phelps who celebrates every disaster as God's punishment for gays, instead of “God hates fags” your motto could be “God hates argfags”
He’s only stating the obvious (“Looks like their trains are just utterly f*cked though”)
If you weren’t so infatuated with fantasists and like ranting on about ideology so much, which you can’t seem to think of anything else, you would see them for what they are, dreamers that should be sorting out things that really matter, so they wouldn’t have such appalling disasters
@68 First, it's “You're” (a contraction of you are) not “your”.
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Secondly, don't blame me for the rail incedent, I think it's horrible and projecting some psychological illness onto me when I'm not the political group trying to wash their hands of any involvement. We understand you're getting angry at me because you don't want to admit that there is something deeply wrong with something that is going on in Argentina. The political elite are getting richer, everyone is getting poorer, and infrastructure is just utterly dangerous. Don't blame me for the infrastructure.. I don't mend it.
Finally, where is KFC? There's just been a massive and terrible public horror and she's just disappeared. No doubt you'll try to blame me for that too.
I accept your apology.
@71 GreekYoghurt
Feb 26th, 2012 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice Post (respectful)
But I think you are wasting your time with British_Kirchnerist, he's full of hate or something else.
@71... 'Finally, where is KFC? There's just been a massive and terrible public horror and she's just disappeared.'
Feb 26th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Disappeared on a Friday , planning to re-appear for Fag Day in Rosario on a Monday....
Sounds like a 'second coming' event....
Has she made a single statement re the train wreck?
Game Think ?
Feb 26th, 2012 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN says no such thing. The UN has never defined the Falklands as a special case. What the C24 does is irrelevant. Remember ?
You must be dreaming - old 'un :-)
66 British_Kirchnerist
Feb 27th, 2012 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are a lot of fanatical Argentine nationalists on here posting insults and inciting violence, take “Pirate Hunter” as an example, he recently suggested that British people in Argentina should be murdered. He even posted examples of where it may have happened. That is inciting violence against people purely on the grounds of their nationality.
Then you have people like Malverino, a fanatic, who is so filled with hate, I doubt he sleeps at night.
Then you have arrogant twerps like Think, who is so stuck up his own ass it is a wonder he isn't inside CFK's cabinet but then maybe he is!
Then there is O'Gara, who is schizophrenic Think's fake Irish alter ego. Who just writes utter garbage under the influence of something - drink or drugs, probably both.
Is it any wonder people write come backs to their insults?
A well written article by someone who possesses a brain. Its a shame that Sean Penn doesn't.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@75 I rarely respond to Argentinian insults because I'm above the likes of their pettiness, and they are so very tiresome.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever happened to that professor of law guy who didn't seemed to be about as objective as a saudi talking about miniskirts?
266British_Kirchnerist,
Feb 27th, 2012 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0“beautiful princess of peace”♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!!!!!!!!!!!
-mate you've got it bad.
But l sympathise, l've been madly. illogically, stupidly in love & it can destroy you.
For God's sake man, propose or shoot yourself.
She may accept you.
l ought to know, when it comes to love, both men & women are illogical.
And it's possible it may shut you up. You will be in a dream world & in no fit state to cause trouble!
67 JustinKuntz
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The principle of self-determination does not apply to the people currently living in the Falklands. In fact, there are legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination. Moreover, self-determination is just one of many principles applied to determining international borders. For example, under the principal of territorial integrity, which according to UN Resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) complements and constrains the right to self-determination:
“ any colonial situation which partially or completely destroys the national unity and territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and especially with paragraph 6 of Resolution 1514 (XV) of the General Assembly [...] ”
Neither the UN nor international law recognises supplanting settlers as “a separate people or peoples” who may legitimately, under certain specific circumstances, have a right to self-determination.
Under international law, the current inhabitants of the Falklands are seen as colonizers and only their interests, not their wishes (as the right to self-determination would involve), need be safeguarded.
This is the reason why the United Nations formally includes the Falklands among those Non-Self Governing Territories which STILL need to be de-colonised.
Still getting it wrong Beet ??
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ban Ki-moon's words to the C24 this week - “ Sixteen Non-Self-Governing Territories across the globe — home to nearly 2 million people — remain to be decolonized. In keeping with the principles of the Charter and subsequent mandating resolutions, the international community continues it efforts to make tangible progress in assisting those territories to achieve self-determination.”
16 territories ..... 'those territories' .... 'self-determination'.
International law my ar*e ... but you keep kidding yourself if you wish.
Nothing Argentina can do ;-)
@80 Ban Ki-moon didn't mention Dokdo. We expect to hear about Dokdo being decolonised, so that's 17 places... and the whole of Argentina, that needs decolonising... and those places off of Morocco that Spain claims to own.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh wait, the C24 is just a bunch of corrupt despots with no moral compass complaining about successful countries. Better ignore that then.
Self Determination is enshrined in the UN Charter as 'PARAMOUNT', without self determination there is no UN. End of Story.
Wrong again, beetlegoose.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0try again, later
Betelgeuse
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0UNGAR 1514 refers only to Non Self Governing Territories. Argentina is not a Non Self Governing Territory, so UNGAR does not apply to Argentina.
Declaration 6 of UNGAR 1514 is to prevent the territorial disruption of NSGTs during the process of decolonisation. Once they are decolonised anything is possible. Sudan is a good example. It was on the C24 list, it was decolonised without territorial disruption and now part of the Sudan has broken away as Southern Sudan.
#79 Nope, that is incorrect
Feb 27th, 2012 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Territorial Integrity.
http://wpik.org/Src/unga1514.html
Paragraph 6 of 1514 cannot be read to justify territorial claims. The original purpose of paragraph 6 is “to ensure that acts of self-determination occur within the established boundaries of colonies, rather than within sub-regions”. The use of the word “attempt” in paragraph 6 connotes future action, and paragraph 6 cannot therefore be construed to justify territorial redress for past actions. Its aim is rather to protect ”colonial territories or countries that have recently become independent against attempts to divide them...at a time which they are least able to defend themselves. Paragraph 6 is subordinate to paragraph 2, so that the right of self-determination remains available to the inhabitants of all non-self-governing territories without exception.
As regards the claim the Falkland Islanders are not a people. Were they not a people for the purposes of the UN, then the Falkland Islands would not appear before the C24 whose purpose is to assist colonial peoples to achieve self-determination.
Malcolm Nathan Shaw (2003). International law. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-82473-6.
Consider this, Argentina is a nation formed first by the Spanish Empire displacing the native peoples and completed by Argentina's own genocidal conquests of neighbouring states and native peoples. If supplanting settlers are not a separate people or peoples.
You claim the UN doesn't recognise the Falkland Islanders as a people - wrong again. See #67, which to add were the Falklands not listed by the United Kingdom - this is not a list compiled by the UN it would not appear there, were it not inhabited by a people, it would not appear there. Territories without a people are not listed before the C24.
Can't we just agree that the C24 is a corrupt UN sponsored den of iniquity, where the main members just sit there demanding people give them land?
Feb 27th, 2012 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike hammerite, the special committee on decolonisation certainly doesn't do what it says on the tin.
As previously stated, the principle of self-determination is not applicable to the current residents of the Falklands. They are not a population indigenous to the Islands, but were settled there by the UK after it had expelled an Argentinian population that previously existed there. Moreover, they are not sufficiently distinct from the British metropolitan population to be considered “a people” as envisaged under the principle of self-determination.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Contrary to GreekYoghurt's conjecture, their status as “a people” has never been recognized by the UN, who have consistently called them a “population”.
Even if they were “a people”, this would not automatically give them a right to self-determination that could override Argentina’s legal title to the Islands.
This is the reason why the United Nations formally includes the Falklands among those Non-Self Governing Territories which STILL need to be de-colonised.
Well, dear Jimmy, you have certainly succeeded in putting Sean firmly in his ignorant American place. In so doing, you have carried on the proud British tradition of destroying your credibility as an investigative journalist through the compulsive use of that snidely smug superiority which too many Brits find so satisfying, but which has alienated many in the world and made the British attitude so insuffrable, while the nation drifts toward economic ruin. Is there any wonder that the UK has lost so many friends around the world, with people such as you providing that oh-so obnoxios face. Factual accuracy aside, your reporting style leaves much else to be wished for.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@86 A little analogical reasoning is required here to show the fallacy in his logic... and let's include his nonsense about the 4 people choosing to leave the islands in 1933 when an American ship destroyed their illegal encampment and said the islands were 'without government'.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“As previously stated, the principle of self-determination is not applicable to the current residents of [Israel]. They are not a population indigenous to [the area of palestine], but were settled there by [Zionists] after it had expelled an [palestinian] population that previously existed there. Moreover, they are not sufficiently distinct from the [jewish diaspora] to be considered “a people” as envisaged under the principle of self-determination.”
Under this man's thinking the Isralies have no right to self-determination and are a colony.
“As previously stated, the principle of self-determination is not applicable to the current residents of [Argentina]. They are not a population indigenous to [the area of palestine], but were settled there by [the spanish] after it had expelled an [native american] population that previously existed there. Moreover, they are not sufficiently distinct from the [Ibero-italians] to be considered “a people” as envisaged under the principle of self-determination.”
Apparently the Argentinians don't either, because they're mainly all spanish, italian and germans. I think we need a trip to the ICJ to clarify that if Argentina should be registered as a territory in need of decolonisation.
#86 Yes we know you stated it, I simply posted a rebuttal that the argument is not sustainable under International Law. I also pointed out that the UN does recognise the Falkland Islanders as a people, if they did not the islands would not be listed by the C24.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The usual practise of simply restating a false premise doesn't mean you win debates by boring everyone into ignoring you. As to the rest, every pronouncement of the ICJ on self-determination since 1947 shows you are wrong.
Argentina has no legal title to the Falkland Islands and never has. Argentina's sovereignty claim has nothing to do with its listing by the C24.
@89 Betelgeuse thinks that just because it's on the C24 list it means something crucial. The UK doesn't engage with the C24 because it's a joke and so it's got nothing to do with this argument at all. Unbeknownst to most Argentinians anything stated by the C24 rarely, if ever, becomes a resolution and typically they remain drafts.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're correct. The ICJ has never made a judgement about the Falkland Islanders. The UK offered to get a judgement twice, but the Argentinians refused. So, although they might state precedent based upon their historical assumptions (people were displaced in 1933 - wrong). Without a judgment from the ICJ they're just expressing opinions.
They don't seem to understand the law.
The nice thing about Falkland Islanders is that they go about their business without trying to force themselves on others. Probably the most friendliest people living on this planet and yet we have to sit in the middle of or should I say a one sided dispute over our very existance.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people of Argentina through out their history have been aggressive and we are aware of this. But in all of it's history of aggression how does Argentina rate in the wider world. Rest assured as happened in 1982 the world came down strongly in support of Britain to stop aggression . Argentina has also failed as a nation by causing her own people to suffer from their policies. So tragic that their children have to be lied to at school so that they can be brainwashed to believe that the Falklands belong to them.
I for one am so proud and glad that I am a Falkland Islander and British because my people have never forced me to live a life that is untrue. We are well educated and are very adapted to surving through the most difficult times. We have looked after our economy while the rest of the world are in recession. Argentina even defaulted on huge debts and are responsible for mass murders in their history. None of which can be said happens on the Falkland Islands.
So why not just let everyone live in peace and do what they all do best and stop the human greed that is clearly what Argentina is all about.
The Falkland will continue to prospor and nothing Argentina says or does will change that the only differance is that while they shut us out they are loosing out on the share of what could have been a financial paradise if only theu acepted us as friendly neighbours. But after all the years they have bullied us it is not ever likely to happen now or anytime in the future.
Have a nice day I know we are che.
91 kelperabout
Feb 27th, 2012 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great comment kelper :)
86
Feb 27th, 2012 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The basic problems with interpretations, is that all peoples interprets it differently, mainly to suit themselves,
The cure ,, is to remove the problem ,
The problem seems to be C24,
Thus get ride of it,, simplify the rules, and accept that the islanders have a right to decide who governs them,
Remembering that all nations today, are technically not indigenous are they,
So after 150 years, we would say, that the islanders have this right, regardless of others interpretation,
.
The idea of “indigenous” is rather silly in these debates simply because there were no human inhabitants until Europe discovered the new world. How have a few Argentines that moved there (but weren't even born there) in the early 19th century attained “indigenous” status to the Argentines?
Feb 27th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How far back do you go??
Man stepped out of Africa so do we all have a claim to the African continent as our indigenous homeland? Let's all move to Ethiopia.
A few Argentines that moved there to live for a few years are not an indigenous population any more than anyone else is.
@93 Sure. The C24 serves absolutely no purpose at all, it's just a den of iniquity paid for by the UN.
Feb 27th, 2012 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Half the places I would consider to be colonies, i.e. Dokdo islands, African Spain, aren't even on their lists.
@87 Fbear
Feb 27th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well, dear Jimmy (Burns), you have certainly succeeded in putting Sean firmly in his ignorant American place.”
And didn’t he need it, the little s**t stirrer
“In so doing, you have carried on the proud British tradition of destroying your credibility as an investigative journalist through the compulsive use of that snidely smug superiority which too many Brits find so satisfying, but which has alienated many in the world and made the British attitude so insufferable”
If we defend ourselves we destroy our credibility, that’s because losers only like losers and as we don’t like losing, unpopularity is the price we have to pay.
But don’t judge us by our journalists, I can’t stand most of the insufferable megalomaniacs, particularly those always pressurising politicians into doing something stupid, saying they represent public opinion, when they don’t, just their own agenda
“while the nation drifts toward economic ruin”
If we ARE drifting towards economic ruin, with the best credit rating and not attached to the Euro, most of the world’s economies are going to collapse well before we do. Don’t pin your hopes on China, India or Brazil they rely on an increasing world economy.
“Is there any wonder that the UK has lost so many friends around the world, with people such as you providing that oh-so obnoxios face”.
I doubt whether we have lost any friends, because they never liked us in the first place
“Factual accuracy aside, your reporting style leaves much else to be wished for”.
I’m glad you appreciate (as I do) factual accuracy (although it seem from an angle I don’t often agree with,) us NOT wanting to lower standards will of course annoy those with poor standards
Who cares what Sean Penn - F.A.G. (Film Actor's Guild) thinks?
Feb 27th, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His support for Argentina is laughable.
47 lsolde (#) You beat me to it!!!!
Feb 27th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This guy, 46 johnfarrel2050, is full of superlatives, “He mixes everything”, “Everybody knows” and “nobody with”, and to boot he doesn't even live in this country so how does he “know everything”.
perhaps this man thinks that the durex mode works best for the argentines,
Feb 27th, 2012 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sadly they just end up making a mess, and looking sillt .lol.
79 Betelgeuse
Feb 28th, 2012 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0''The principle of self-determination does not apply to the people currently living in the Falklands.'' Says who? Apart from you.
''In fact, there are legal criteria for determining which groups may legitimately claim the right to self-determination'' Really. What are they?
''Neither the UN nor international law recognises supplanting settlers as “a separate people or peoples”'' Is that so. Shall I tell the Australians and New Zealanders or willyou?
''Under international law, the current inhabitants of the Falklands are seen as colonizers and only their interests, not their wishes (as the right to self-determination would involve), need be safeguarded.''
Yes we've all heard this pile of drivel before as well. Why then does the UN recognise us as one of 16 territories who need to be helped to exercise their right to self- determination?
And where does it say that anyone is better qualified than us to determine our interests?
OK, why don't you tell us what is in our best interests, since we are clearly benighted colonials and can't possibly decide for ourselves?
Can I just start you off and stop you embarassing yourself by pointing out that the UN is explicitly against the 'subjugation and domination' of an unwilling population by a foreign power. That's you.
Who cares what Sean Penn - F.A.G. (Film Actor's Guild) thinks?
Feb 28th, 2012 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0His support for Argentina is laughable.
And I think you brits are bitter people!
He is just of the many milliuons who support Malvinas Argentinas!
UNGA Resolution 2625 says that the falkland Islanders are a separate people !
Feb 28th, 2012 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not a big seller in Argentina :-)
@102 Lord Ton,
Feb 28th, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0The truth wouldn't be a big seller there either :-)
@101 Malvinero1
Feb 28th, 2012 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0“And I think you brits are bitter people!
How can we be bitter? you have to be at the bottom of the pile to be bitter and that's you, you're bankrupt.
”He is just of the many milliuons who support Malvinas Argentinas”
Yes and all those (milliuons) are only in Argentina
British Falklands
Sean Penn is a well-known fellow-traveler; that is a perfect useful idiot!
Feb 28th, 2012 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt he doesn't even know where the Falkland Islands are situated.
Jimmy Burns knows only too well what he writes about here.
Philippe
Sean should keep on practising his excellent magic tricks, something he's good at. Sean should avoid politics something he's not good at. Probably Argentina has a claim on the Islands but what would they do with them other than plant a flag on the unproductive ground and upset the local inhabitants. UK has offered 50% profit sharing on any oil found and extracted and currently UK - Argentina trade is worth £1.4 billion with a surplus for Argentina of £150 million. EU wide trade is 8 times bigger, trade embargos are bad news both ways. Putting the Islanders under siege is bad for Argentina's image abroad, what is to be gained other than putting unnecessary hardship on ordinary people.
Feb 29th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After reading this article, i only can tell you that this is not the kind of giornalist that i want to be some day, people who tells only the half of the questions.
Mar 01st, 2012 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Burns should tell penn also that the u. n never applied the right to self determination in none of the resolutions that were expressed for the malvinas-falkland cause, he must tell too that this case has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the u. n, he must tell too that in 1985 the u. k. tried to include references about self determination and the international comunity voted by a lanslide against those proposals, he must tell too that even c. f. k said in diferent forums that arg is not asking the u. k. to recognize that the islands are argentine, and assured too that the islanders wont have to renounce to their british nationality, all that we are asking the u. k. is to dialague with us, and find a fair solution, like the u. n and most international comunity signalize.
On the other hand, it'snot true that what he calls the government media censored the repression against the manifestants from catamarca, in fact i saw a good report in chanel 7 (the public televission), and in most chanels. Beside, what's wrong if the militants of the kirchnerisem (la campora) work in diferent statal corporations?. Like i always say, the worse of this kind of analysis, aren't the omitions of the mediocre giornalists like burns, because they will always exist, the worse is that per haps some people believe them, specialy some ignorants who type here, who dont like to discern anything, and buy so easily the omitions of the press and the politicians. Like i always say, i dont believe in objetivity, i wont never be objetive, i will always take a side in all the questions, but i will always tell too the whole history. Most burns said in his letter to sean penn is truth, but he says too only the half of the questions, like all the mediocre giornalists.
No Axel, the UN never said that we are a special case.
Mar 02nd, 2012 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Axel, we can have self-determination.
No Axel, we do NOT have to “dialogue” with you & we are NOT going to.
Yes Axel, the Falklands ARE OURS.
No Axel, the Falklands ARE NOT YOURS.
Yes Axel, you ARE COLONIALISTS, because you want OUR land.
No Axel, Argentina has NEVER owned the Falklands.
Yes Axel, lts OUR OIL.
No Axel, Argentina will get none of it.
Finally, dear Axel, just for you:-
THERE WILL BE NO NEGOTIATIONS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
Do you get the picture, now?
Jimmy with burns..... no problem, in this moment Sean must be thinking your open letter, and soon will answer it, stupid!
Mar 02nd, 2012 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@109 nitrojuan
Mar 04th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Jimmy with burns..... no problem, in this moment Sean must be thinking your open letter, and soon will answer it, stupid”
Your post didn't make any sense the last time you posted it @37, but post it again makes you look stupid.
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