MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Cristina Fernandez preparing legal framework to ‘raid’ Central bank reserves
Argentine President Cristina Fernandez sent a bill to Congress on Thursday aimed at helping the government tap more central bank reserves to help repay foreign debt and defend the country's currency. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesCFK: “Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..”
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0*IMF enters stage left*
IMF: “What are you doing?”
CFK: “Nothing”
*IMF exits stage right*
CFK: “Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..”
Yes more growth. Argentina is the best economy in the world.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0haters go away :P
She's going for the full “extremely expensive” head transplant.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't blame her.
l think if see needed an anus transplant, she would probably die.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The anus would reject her.
@4 hmm.. I think she'd need another one though, considering the amount of defecating her body produces out of all orifices.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the looming economic catrastophie on the horizon just got even closer. Seriously this woman is leading argentina to doom. There is no growth their as there figures do not account for the cost of inflation either.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2 'Argentina is the best economy in the world' - I like your sarcasm dude!
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's like saying 'Malta has the best football team the world has ever seen'!
:)
The 'descamisados' are going to loose the shirts off their backs !
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jorge Lanata for President.
Most likely she is being advised that ARG will lose the US Supreme Court review this summer so she might as well spend the reserves before they are confiscated.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is truly shocking and they dying gasp of their economy. I think in 2001 they had 10B in reserves when it crashed. The economy is bigger now so they need more reserves to keep the currency afloat. Scary!
There's not enough information in this article relative to the headline:“Cristina Fernandez preparing legal framework to ‘raid’ Central bank reserves.” And what change in the “convertibility” law are they talking about?
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well its orthodox economics that brought the whole world to recession, the one thing we know for sure doesn't work is “orthodox” economics, so something “unorthodox”, ie pro-people, must be done, and more power to Cristina for doing it =)
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#4 Isolde even though I don't agree with you, you often have a nice light touch, so this lapse into crudity dissapoints me =( Anyway I don't see why she would need such a transplant, and neither it seems did berlusconi at the last G20!
@11 I think you'll find that it was Moral Hazard mainly that brought the world into recession. This included an issue with the rating of securitised assets and a lack of ability for people to understand the complexity of what they were buying and assess the risks wrapped up in the bundles of things they were buying.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is so pro-people about her using her political office to make herself rich through property deals at the same time as making everyone else poor?
What your mind is using is called cognitive distortion. It's quite interesting to see it in practice.
11. You've been brainwashed by a poor education system and K propaganda if you believe the actions the Ks have taken will lead to long term prosperity for your population. It is quite the opposite. I hope you like what is going on in Venezuela or Bolivia because that is your near term future.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 - Actually the recession had little to do with the economists and more to do with western culture, bankers and sometimes corruption.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The economists had been warning of impending doom for sometime a bit like they are currently doing with Argentina in the same way they were the last time the Argentine economy defaulted.
If anything some of the most respective economists out there have a high success rate in their predictions.
CFK: “Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..”
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 03:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*IMF enters stage left*
IMF: “What are you doing?”
CFK: “Nothing”
*IMF exits stage right*
CFK: “Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..Raid and steal..”
Yes more growth. Argentina is the best economy in the world.
haters go away :Psychotic
CFK: “Raid and steal and lie..Raid and steal and lie..Raid and steal and lie..Raid and steal lie..Raid and steal and lie..Raid and steal and lie..Raid and steal and lie.” Not to mention “15% to own personal account....15% to own personal account....15% to own personal account....15% to own personal account....Just a couple more years and I can buy my palace and have no financial concerns for the next 40 years. Thank you, people of...where?”
They are out of U$!! CFK is trying to trade soy bio-diesel for LNG or pay in Pesos, everyone is saying no thanks u$ upfront!!
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They only have 55 committed of the 80 takers needed to get them through winter.
Hahahaha...
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(11) British_Kirchnerist
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s quite normal in Malvinas….
Women on them Islands, rapidly become frothing harpies.
It has something to do with isolation, frustration and a lot of other -ations.
The men put up with them because they still haven’t figured out a way to procreate with sheep….
@18
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think is an auto-chat bot troll. It never says anything relevant to the article.
There is nothing ever good that comes out of Argentina. Every story you look at infers quite clearly that the Argentines are reaching a fairly desperate stage with their economy:
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://blogs.reuters.com/luis-a-henao/2012/03/02/exclusive-argentina-barters-soy-diesel-for-lng-imports/
All the 2001 default did was delay of a decade or so the intervention and control of the Argentine by outsiders.
@16 Why aren't the argies using the soy bio-diesel in their own cars? That's hardly energy independent thinking their by KFC.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 Prepare to be diappointed (you are just too precious for this world) Burlesconi wouuld fuck his own grandmother if she was still breathing.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now go back to runnning your fan club.
@16 Any guesses where over 40% of their biodiesel is headed? That's right, it's going to the EU. Shame their annoying the hell out of a major part of the EU at the moment.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(http://www.argentinaindependent.com/socialissues/development/biodiesel-in-argentina-blessing-or-long-term-hazard/)
22 ElaineB
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You beat me to it, I was going to say a dead rat.
Actually, this is a very good thing. Now, when if all turns to ashes, there will be absolutely no one else to blame but the Argies precious diva president.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24 LOL It would help if I didn't make so many typos but I was rushing to get to the wine harvest festival................. priorities. : )
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11British_Kirchnerist,
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l am normaly well behaved but can, on occasion, decend into smuttyness.
l was raised in the Far East, where the people are far more earthy (& honest about their bodies)than we are. And say it as they perceive it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but thats life.!♥
It would be interesting if some day we dont need to answer the stupid predictions of all these gurus from the financial sistem, it's proved by the actual moment that when a president submit his decitions to the financial sistem, he finishes like us in 2001, or like the sad european situation.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But unfortunately it's still necesary to answer all these so partial analysis, because as i can see in this forum, there are planty of ignorants who buy so easily all the falied predictions of these people.
All these orthodox economists who are so histeric when the government uses the reserves of the central bank, in order to pay the debt, and avoid to make any of the cuts that many european countries are doing, didn't make any critic for their failed analysis, and obviously they wont never do it.
I wont put my hands on the fire nor for the indec, nor for any private analists, who some them are just lobbysts of powerful corporations. But the inflation problem is very ample, and it will take many years to be solved, it's due mostly to the lack of trust by the bussines men in our economy, and that's why they prefer to increase the prizes of the products, instead of making enought inverstments, it must be reminded that all these people won so much money with the policies of the government. Anyway, anyone has right to understand whatever he wants, but there is nothing more important than the reality, independently of the lies or the omitions that you like to buy from the press, just because it criticises hardly our government.
On the other hand, what this article omits is that many countries changed the charter of their central banks, it was expectable, they are noy idiots, and they need to be more protected from the int. crisis. Beside, another important point, is that argentina is the second nation, after india that increased more it's imports, which destroys all that hipocresy and lies that are told in the perss respecting the soposed exesive protetionism of the government.
@28 - you have an international credit rating of B, the same as giants of the economic world like Cameroon. The UK's is AAA.
Mar 03rd, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Go figure.
LISTEN you Argies don’t have to believe anything we say,
Mar 04th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0That’s ok, because we can afford to sit back and watch,
But you guys are there, so just wait and see what she has in store for you,
You might even be surprised, .
.
I'm not sure if Argentina even has a strategy, but if they do, they might be betting on the future of the Dollar and Euro. And, of course, it would also depend on just how much gold they are sitting. At the end of 2010, they were sitting on almost 2 million ounces, which isn't all that much for an economy their size. Then again, if the Dollar and Euro both crash in the next couple of years, their “strategy” could be a good one. We'll have to see what happens in the middle east. If the US loses its grip on Dollar priced oil, we could all be “living in interesting times”.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hey hey!! How many falklanders worried about Argentina economy! Let me say that Argentina will grow at least 6% this year and grew 9 % the last one. What about England? 9 years of susteined growth of the economy speaks well of her, not bad. And it seems to be so for a long time...
Mar 04th, 2012 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@32
Mar 04th, 2012 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0for about the 20th time no one, including the IMF believes INDEC's figures, particularly those relating to inflation. you make it up as you go along.
why if your economy is so good do you still have a credit rating of B?
http://webfarm.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-01/imf-regrets-absence-of-progress-on-improving-argentine-inflation-index.html
Argentinians only believe what they want to believe. Why do you think they put up with consecutive governments that have stolen generations of wealth from them?
Mar 04th, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Take a look at only Axel's posts, he is a teacher and one of the dumbest people on this board. He has been completely brainwashed by gov't propaganda and truly believes that they are on a path to prosperity. He thinks because for the past few years his salary has gone up (in peso terms) above the inflation figure he is actually doing better yoy. Now watch the spin when his raise is 10% less than inflation this year. Somehow he will convince himself it is a good thing. It is very scary that he is teaching the next generation they'll be even dumber than he is.
Perhaps KFC thinks that the central bank reserves are 'Her sovereign territory' pretty much like everything else! LOL
Mar 04th, 2012 - 01:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0for all people here, what about uk economy?, does any body knows about Uk present economy?, uk economy must be in defoult but the government hide the real deal, but you people thinj Uk is ok.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 028 Axl Rose - Its not lies you country really is in the poop. You lie about inflation (THOUGHT TO BE OVER 25%) the Reichmistress is raiding the last pot of cash you have. Credit rating as stated is B, you have defaulted on loans to USA and the IMF. The evidence tends to point to your economy isnt that healthy old chum. Facts not propaganda from the reich.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@36 - Truly bizarre regarding the statement about the UK in default. Unlike Argentina the UK publishes true figures on its economy and even if it did try to hide it, it couldn't because unlike Argentina it simply can't bribe/threaten its own agencies.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0In your little head do you ever wonder why the UK still has the highest credit rating in the world that even the USA doesn't hold? I can only guess you are another brain washed simpleton because quite clearly you can't understand that.
Honestly, I've never encountered such a bunch of deluded and brain washed simpletons as those folk from Argentina who post on here. The closet I can think of is when the North Korean population all performed their spontaneous crying at the state funeral.
An own agenda
Mar 04th, 2012 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Earlier in her speech, the President has sought to dissuade the opposition from struggling to get “an extra two lines” in the newspapers or “two minutes” on television. “That lasts for a very short time and it is ultimately worth nothing.” She spoke for over three hours instead
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/89833/an-own-agenda
@34 As Goebbels used to say 'if you repeat the lie enough times, then people start to believe it”. I don't think he said it in English though.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@35 Everything is Argentina's Sovereign territory, there isn't a country that they don't claim land from. It's just Hitler-Peron espoused agressive expansionism. However, they just teach in schools that they're a victim. The central bank is no different, just that they've now run out of cash.
Cristina´s ecuation of her “model” : high economic growth + high rate of inflation + same (if not higher) rate of poverty + lies (indec included) + POPULISM= REALITY = CORRUPTION + FAILURE + FANTASY NATION
Mar 04th, 2012 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NB: I am argie, I know what I am talking about!!!! Have a great day everyone!
@41 Seriously, when are you Argies going to ditch Peronism? It's failed you for many many years and continues to fail you to this day.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0YANKYBOY. THE CESTRAIN. GONZO.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE CESTRAIN: Who cares about the califications of those so called qualification agencies?, it's true that we have a b, and you are aaa, that's great for you and i congratelate your government. But our b didn't impide a record of economic expantion and the creation of millions of jobs, that's something that you need too, anyway, if you are aaa, i'm sure that your government will create them soon.
YANKYBOY: Only i believe what i like to believe?, aren't you doing per haps exactly the same. I just make all the time ample analysis about the diferent problematics of my country, i dont deny our problems, but i also say that they will take many years to be solved, and dont buy the partial analysis of press, like you love to do, just because it criticises a government that you dont like.
GONZO: In order to criticise any government, the first thing that we must have, is intellectual honesty. I dont deny that c. f. k's government has negative aspects, i voted her, but there are some questions of her administration that i have always rejected. But no matter how pro or anti k are all of us, we can't be so injudicious and deny also that there are many positive changes for the nation. I am also argentine and i know what i am talking about, but the diference betwen you and i, is that dont make such a partial analysis like you do, just because you dont like the government, anyway have a nice day.
“I am also argentine and i know what i am talking about, but the diference betwen you and i, is that [I] dont make such a partial analysis like you do, just because you dont like the government”
Mar 04th, 2012 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So people who disagree with the KFC government, are purely motivated by the fact they don't like the government, don't know what their talking about and only do a partial analysis of the 'facts'.
Can you give one example of where: a) he didn't know what he was talking about? ; b) he did a partial analysis of the facts?
Hmm, these jingoistic pro-KFC folks seem only able to resort to ad hominem attacks in order to make a point, rather than debate.
@ 43 Axel, I respect your stance but honestly, we seem to live in very differnt contexts... my question is, am I happy with a government who may have done a few good things at a dear high cost? I have had enough of overt lies and constant confrontation from this government!!! And we will soon start to feel the pinch due to the many bad policies they have carried out over the last 5 years. The saddest thing is I don´t see any decent alternative amongst most politicians in the country.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Hi GreekY, I agree 100% with you, some of us here believe that peronism is a “cancer” for our country...so many years governed by peronists, and bearing in mind Argieland is “potentially” a very rich country (natural resources abound, plus though you may find it hard to believe, we have some brilliant minds in the private sector), the outcome up to date is appalingly daunting, to say the least! Lies and populism are rife in peronist governments, let alone Cristina´s!!! And using the Falklands issue as a red-herring is the last drop, pathetic really. Cheers XX
#22 “you are just too precious for this world” I don't know what you mean. but if its the same precious as #25 “the Argies precious diva president” then I'm honored by the comparison to my icon Cristina =)
Mar 04th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#27 Now thats interesting...how did you get from the far east to the Falklands? Was it Hong Kong you were raised in...and could that be the future solution for the Falklands or something like it?
#28 “It would be interesting if some day we dont need to answer the stupid predictions of all these gurus from the financial sistem, it's proved by the actual moment that when a president submit his decitions to the financial sistem, he finishes like us in 2001, or like the sad european situation.” Exactly. And as for the AAA rating it just shows our government is more accountable to ratings agencies than its own people.
#39 An interesting article actually. A great quote from Cristina “Do not let your agendas be managed by “three or four monopolies,” she told the politicos of this land. “Think how they massacre all of you when you don’t do whatever they want.””, followed by very slanted and dodgy analysis of it. But even this hostile report has to admit that “By then, the President had declared two days of national mourning. Heads of governments speak first through acts and only secondly through words, a maxim that applies both to Schiavi’s initial blunder and to the government critics” in response to all the rubbish in the mainstream arg press and on here about Cristina's “silence”. And finally “The President’s public speaking skills is the best communication tool the government has.”
Long live Queen Cristina. Besos
@46 ”In Spain we have Gibraltar but, fortunately, no madman would organize a war occurred in the last century at least. I believe that this war (in reference to the Falklands) was made by a madman,“ declared Joaquín Sabina” (source: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1453529-todos-hablan-de-malvinas)
Mar 04th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although, I as much as the next man, love to hear Joaquín Sabina (whoooooo?) talking about the spanish ownership of Canary Islands, Perejil, Ceuta, Melilla and also those other islands, what I find very curious is how he refers to anyone causing a war in this way a madman. Argentina has a mad-lady in charge.
Joaquín Sabina (whoooooo?) has laid it out, for Argentina to play it out.
43. No I am able to read news articles, opinions, talk to friends and family members to know what is really going on in Argentina. It is like you don't even live there! Can you name any actions the Ks have done to put Argentina on a path to long term prosperity? I can't name ONE! Everything they have done has been short term, politically expedient solutions to get them through a few months at a time.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have bankrupted your country and you are too stupid to realize it but you will very shortly.
48 - We are 100% in agreement. - err, make that 110%.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is for every body here, I don t know if any body here went to study economy, I did, can sny body tell me what are talking sbout when said inflation is becouse we Argentina are in defoult?
Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can any body tell me how much money England has in centarl bank, how much money owns to FMI and other Banks or boards?, how much money produce exporting a year?, how much money England invest inside the country?
Don t be fool, every government lies, I don t really want to hert any body feelings, I ve been here in USA per 17 years, I don t live in Argentina, if I lved Argentina was for politicians, a lot people here in this blog is right about politicians , the only difference betwen me and the rest of people here is that I can said that politicians in Argentina, USA, Europe are yhe same sh••t.
Every body said, Argentina is very corrupt, come here to EEUU and you ll see real politics corruption, that is why I never talk about politicians, I dont really care about CFK or Cameron, those politicians are corrupts and will pass away some day, but when people said that the Malvinas belong to England that is a different thing.
If any body here doesn t know the history and still said that the Malvinas belong to England, please read the history or watch history chanel.
And I have a question to any kelper here, not fir a british only for kelpers, what can happen if Argentina gets enough weapons to fight again for Malvinas, modern weapons can destroy more than the 82 weapons, you people in the islands, what are gonna do?, England now is still there becouse Argentina doesn t have enough weapons, but that can change, and lot of lives are going to suffer, including kelpers lives, that is way every body need to think in a paceful solution , there is more than one country in ghe world that can cause serious damage in south atlantic if Argentina chosse to be an aliado, there is more than one now waithing for a call from Argentina to start a war, natural resources are every thing now.
@48 I've done some quick research, and I cannot identify a single policy that the Kirchners have done that might put Argentina on the path to long term prosperity.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@50 UK's debt profile is more important than the size of debt.
I agree that politicians are self-serving psychopathic prevaricators, but let's be fair in direct democracies no one bothers to read the legislation and end up voting for 'free 50 inch plasma TVs and Murdoch.com Plebview boxes'. Once you have a populist politician ruling by decree, like in Argentina you are completely furked because you have the worst of both worlds.
You clearly abandoned Argentina for a life in the USA because Argentina was a sh!t place to live, and you hated it there. Don't come onto a forum and start telling us about Argentina when you know nothing about it, other than to abandon it. You've not lived there for 17 years and you clearly have as much pride in Argentina as I have in what I just flushed away after dinner. You're a cultural parasite, and I have no reason to listen to what you have to say. End of story.
I wouldn't worry about the war talk, really Argentina can't compete with the UK in military terms and its extraordinarily unlikely anything will change. You simply can't build that capability nor equal UK spending power but you know that already given you've studied economics. This is all irrelevant anyway given the UK has the support of NATO, the UN (If Argentina attacks), the USA and the EU which is pretty much game, set and match before anything started.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd agree politicians can be corrupt although CFK seemingly takes it to the next level and when it comes to questions around the English economy it would be helpful if you actually make a point with the questions as opposed to completely random questions regarding the economy. I also studied economics and also worked as a stockbroker for many years so I know a thing or two about economics and finance.
I've got a question for you, how do you feel Argentina can control run-away inflation? And what effect will that have on long term growth of the Argentine economy?
Greek yoghurt the cultural pareasito are you, I learned more than you, I went to one of the best university here, I have a job that you can t get in your entire life, I have family in different countrys, even in Uk, you are poor stupid no brain ,
Mar 04th, 2012 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Malvinas is not a government issue, is a State issue, learn before you talk dirty ass
@53 Using the same terminology as someone used to describe you is how children debate in playgrounds. You're clearly have a childlike brain and I doubt very much if you attended university.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland islands is an Argentinian state issue, because you brainwashed all your children to believe you were unable to steal it from the British at different times in history and you still haven't been able to. The British have no sovereignty issue over the Falklands, so it's not an issue in the UK.
Grow up.
53. If you went to one of the best Universities in the USA you should sue them to get your money back!! You can't even write a proper sentence! How embarrassing for them and you.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are poor stupid no brain ...um I wouldn't throw the first stone if I were you...
hey you 55 , do you speak spanish or Italian?, you live in your world with out any brain, that is why you still are in your parents house living like a ratt
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I sure you work in a warehouse paking products for other people like me that has enough momey to buy products.
Grow up and start using your braine not only your body
@56 There you are, doing it again, as if you were still in the playground. You seem only capable of retorting what other people just said to you.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That just shows a lack of creativity and intelligence.
greek youghurtt
Mar 04th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ja Ja Ja
56. I don't claim to have gone to a top University in Spain or Italy but I bet if I did I could write a coherent sentence. Your posts are barely readable. You may be better off using google translate.
Mar 04th, 2012 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW cleaning pools or mowing lawns is not consider a good job in the USA even though you are probably making more than a Doctor does in Argentina.
@50 pepegalleta,
Mar 04th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no such place as the malvinas & if there were who knows who would own them.
However the Falklands belong to the Falklanders, not England or Britain & certainly not Argentina.
Britain is here to protect us from belligerent, untrustworthy countries like Argentina that want to colonize us.
l know that you Argentines have been taught at school that you own the Falklands, but you were taught lies.
You do not own the Falklands. We do & we are not going to talk to you about it & we are not going to to give OUR country to you.
lf you did some research yourself you would be able to see that Argentina has NEVER owned the Falklands.
While you're doing this research you might like to investigate the land that Argentina stole from Paraguay in 1871.
Were you ever taught that at school?
Do you think that your country will return that land?
After all, you are all Latam brothers now.
So the best that you can do is to threaten us?
Who will you get to do your fighting for you?
Brazil? China? Venezuela? & would you, yourself volunteer?
You are brainwashed from school, mate.
Read, study, set yourself free.
All we ask is that Argentina be a good neighbour & accept us for what we are.
Can you do that? Peace.
56 pepegalleta
Mar 04th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you claimed you would not post on here any more?
Let us look at your illiterate post shall we?
”hey(sic) you 55 , do you speak spanish(sic) or Italian(sic)?, you live in your world with out(sic) any brain, that is why you(sic) still(sic) are(sic) in your parents house living like a ratt(sic).(sic)
And I(sic) sure you work in a warehouse paking(sic) products for other people like me that has enough momey(sic) to buy products.
Grow up and start using your braine(sic) not only your body”
(sic) is where YOU have made an error in grammar or spelling or omission.
13 errors in 64 words or approximately 23% errors. AND you want us to believe you have been to a top-notch university in America no less?
Mmm, I wonder who is the liar here, I think it is you.
@60 You're expecting a brainwashed Argentinian to admit that they stole land off their neighbour, even when they have further claims on land from pretty much all of their neighbours?
Mar 04th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's expecting a little too much. Everyone knows that the Argentinians will do anything to steal land, but everyone also knows that they refuse to admit that they love stealing land.
To them, stealing land is a national obsession. Just look at all the posters on here, frothing at the mouth at the idea of property theft.
Why is it that Argentina stole land from Paraguay...
Mar 05th, 2012 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0But the USA annexed land fair and square from the Mexicans?
Why is it that Argentina usurped land from Chile...
Yet Britain gained the rights to enclaves like Gibraltar or Bermuda fair and square?
Why is it that Argentina displaced or supplanted the indians?
But the Brazilians, Chileans, Canadians, Mexicans, etc “inherited” them?
Do you realize how ridiculous you all sound with such obvious trolling hypocrisy?
If you all kept yourselves the scope of your comments strictly to the discussion about the Falklands and the islanders' rights to determine their state of affairs, then virtually all of you would appear as completely rational contributors.
But many of you have been betrayed by an almost prurient proclivity to troll the Argentines, as a whole (not just the so-called “malvinistas”), and thus seem compelled by an inner force to indite replies about topics clearly beyond your ken (mainly about Argentine history or culture). As a consequence, some of you come across as sciolists to whom one vouchsafes perfunctory forbearance at best; and a few others merely deserving of dismissal and spurn.
This results in you alienating those Argentines whose opinions by be consonant with your own, and precluding any fledgeling rapprochement that could be nurtured. But most importantly, it diminishes your own statements because when you type what are arrantly mendacious commentary about Argentina, then one is forced to call into question, whether other asseverations are also equally issuable.
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0@63tobias,
Mar 05th, 2012 - 06:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0The object of the exercise is to show Argentines, malvinistas in particular how we perceive their gross hypocracy.
We are constantly accussed of being:-
1) thieves
2) squatters
3) pirates
4) usurpers
5) & other insults etc etc
When we are living on our own land that we have a legitimate right to.
Many Falklanders can trace their ancestry here back 9 generations.
Don't you consider it absurd that 2nd or 3rd generation Argentines then tell them that they have no right to their homes?
lt would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.
Despite all you were taught at school, Argentina has NEVER owned these lslands as a bit of research will prove.
Then we are subject to an intermittant barrage of how evil the British are & the empire did this or that.
Your country's hands are as bloody as anyone elses, yet you malvinistas have the gall to accuse us of these deeds.
Of course we respond.
What do you expect?
Malvinistas bring this up because they are frustrated because we willnot “sit & talk about our sovereignty”
Would you “sit & talk about your sovereignty” to a foreign power that wants your country?
And has NO RIGHTS to your country? of course not.
Furthermore Argentina DID steal land from Paraguay in 1871.
Whats wrong with posting this? lts true
lt may be unpalatable to you & your “poor victimized” country but ITS TRUE!
Your complaints on the world stage, where your country consistantly lies about the Falklands might sway some countries IF YOU RETURNED THAT LAND TO PARAGUAY!
To sum up, you have no case with the Falklands.
lf you did, your country would take its claims to the ICJ.
Have l explained it in depth enough for you? Thank you.
Argentina did not steal any land from Paraguay, it won a conflict against them (which we did not initiate either), and terms of surrender were presented. In the 1800s, territorial loss almost always ensued a defeat in war. So perhaps they should have not invaded argentine territory (even if it was to attack another country).
Mar 05th, 2012 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Furthermore, it did not grab any land from Chile. Both countries signed a series of mutually drafted treaties. If some Chileans today rue or regret such agreements, well, I'm not sure what to say to that. I did thought people here were particularly fond of respecting treaties (since they, rightfully so, objurgate and vilipend Argentina when we abrogate them).
The fact that my country is on the flawed side of the argument regarding the Falklands, does not mean you need to resort to the same tactic. If you do, then you lose all rights to critique us.
I'm no “malvinista”; however, this comment demonstrates quite caliginous prepossessions towards all argentines, and that you have manifestly not read one contribution I have ever redacted about my personal position on your islands.
Which means I agree that you should not be instructed, enjoined or commanded to negotiate your allegiances if you so not desire. What I would do in your place is irrelevant, it would not matter, as foreign powers have never demonstrated much honor in this regard and would simply invade and either subjugate, deracinate, or kill us. That's been the European way for more than 1900 out of 2000 years, and the reason why I frown when Europeans assert to be peaceful and seek some holier citadel of morality, when on the scale of historical time the current state is but an ephemeral interlude. Generations need to elapse before they truly can claim ownership of such irenic mortmain.
@66tobias,
Mar 05th, 2012 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very impressive discourse in lawyer's English.
l, very seldom use all those words so personally, you do not impress me one jot.
Let us go through some of your points.
1) l did not even mention Chile.
l have heard some Chileans on here say that you did steal their land, but l don't know anything about it, YET.
l will do some research & get back to you on this.
2) You admit that Argentina “accquired” Paraguayan land & don't seem to be worried about this.
So because you won the war, you took their land?
ln other words, the spoils of war?
Well, we won the war in 1982 against Argentina.
So even though the Falklands were ours BEFORE the war, they could still, by your logic, be the spoils of war? yes?
So that is one more reason why the Falklands are ours.
l don't lose any rights when in the defence of my country.
Lastly, you say that you're not a malvinista?
Then why are you siding with them & defending Argentina's ridiculous “claims”?
@ 11 British_Kirchnerist
Mar 05th, 2012 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's pretty simple. This isn't a 'new' model of international economics as the administration would have you believe, it is simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. There is a problem with inflation, taking more money out of central reserves is going to lead to more capital flight and a faster devaluation of the peso. Internal prices will continue to inflate but, as the peso is depreciating, this will only fuel inflation. External buyers of products will ask to be paid in UD$ and the government will have to dip further into reserves.
The knock-on effect is that, come union pay negotiation, the government will have less money to meet the demands of the unions (such demands will have increased because of the rise in 'actual' rather than 'government' inflation). Continuing to dip into reserves will just escalate this situation. Combine this with the fact the Argentina has benefited from one of the largest commodity bubbles over the last few years (which is coming to an end) means that this is fuelling highly cyclical economic policies. Cyclical economics = boom and bust.
I understand you support Cristina and her socially progressive policies (as do I) but please do not buy into this 'new' economic model guff. Transparency is everything when producing proper economic models and there is precious little of that going on.
I would welcome your thoughts.
@67 Isolde, it's a legal term that South Americans love called 'Uti Possidetis' which effectively means what you win, you keep. It's how war has fashioned the borders in South America.. and they seem to accept this principle in determining their own borders. They're all thieves, pirates, usurpers by their own definition.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Curiously then, they lost a war in 1982 and 1833 and yet refuse to accept the principle of uti possidetis in determining the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands. This is why in their minds they don't feel like they lost the war, because as soon as they admit they lost it, it results in uti possidetis. So they keep believing they won the war, and celebrating their victory, and the glory of the Belgrano.
It's pretty pathetic really.
69 GreekYoghurt
Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Delusional, more like. But you have to smile at their persistence in the face of logic and truth.
@70 Hmm... truth.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0truth /truθ/
noun, plural truths /truðz, truθs/
1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.
2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.
3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.
4. the state or character of being true.
5. actuality or actual existence.
So, basically by all 5 definitions the truth is that the Falklands are not and have never been a part of Argentina.
The sooner they come to terms with the truth, the better. I doubt they will though.
GREEK YOGHURT. GONZO.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK: You made a wrong interpretation of my analysis, when i said that i am argentine, and i know what i am talking about, it was just in answer to the last words by gonzo in his comment 41.
Beside, if you read my comment again, you'll see that i dont deny that c. f. k's administration has negative aspects, and i also recognized that there are some questions of her government that i have always rejected, i respect people's opinion, but even when i express my support to many decitions that the c. f. k took, i never stoped recognizing that there are some questions of her government that i i have always criticised, that shows that i dont make any partial analysis, anyway, the support to any government is always related to the ideology of each person, in my case, i have a centre left ideology, and that's why i support many of the decitions that c. f. k took, but there is still a lot to do for our people, because we are a very uneqeual society yet. The national project of the kirchnerisem is very much alike the ideas that i have always deffended, that's why i support it, but it doesn't mean that i will avoid to criticise the serious mistakes that c. f. k made.
GONZO: I respect your opinion, but i really dont agree so much on it, like i said to greek, the support to any government is always related to people's ideology, i have a centre left ideology, and the national project of the kirchnerisem is very much alike the ideas that i have always deffended, but at the same time, i never stoped criticising the serious mistakes of c. f. k's government, the most important is that the view that we must have in order to criticise any government, must be ample, or we will finish making mediocre analysis like many politicians and giornalists.
“Curiously then, they lost a war in 1982 and 1833 and yet refuse to accept the principle of uti possidetis in determining the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.”
Mar 05th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Curious? Not really, argentinians are the worlds most deluded and hypocritical people, pumped up by decades of completely baseless nationalist propaganda which Goebbels would have been proud of.
In argentinian terms, silly us to think that rules which apply to inferior races might possibly apply to the peace loving argentinian!
Silly us to compare argentinian peaceful self defence, whether in patagonia in the 1870's or the malvinas in 1982, with the wiched repression which the british imperialists exercise over their colonial subjects!
@72 Axel, the issue here is that you're centre left peronist, KFC is left peronist.. some others are right peronist.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The cancer is the peronism, not where in the political spectrum you sit. Because that's fairly arbitrary.
It is true that many Argentines - particularly in Buenos Aires - have a very Italian view regarding rules and laws; they like the idea of them but don't think they actually apply to them. I guess if you live there and everyone understands this, it is not so much a problem within the country.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are indeed some very good private individuals in Argentina trying to run businesses. They are frustrated at every turn by the government who run the place like the mafia. As an example, one abattoir owner I know cannot trade freely but has to wait for a call from the government to tell her who she can sell her meat to and at what price, providing all the necesssary bribes are paid the transaction goes ahead. Nice way to have to do business.
@75 I can see why you cannot wait to become neo-Sicily then.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem in Argentina, like in Italy is the chauvinism preventing them from admitting that corruption is a negative thing, and the machismo making them pretend it doesn't happen. They like to think they're a first world developed country and yet just under the cover the truth resides.
Thankfully the UN C24 exists to let them discuss taking you over.
GREEK YOGHURT.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong again, i am not peronist, i have only an ideology which is closer to the centre left, c. f. k belongs to the centre left wing of peronism, but i already told you why i support her. Respecting the soposed cancer of argentina, i respect your opinion, but i dont agree on it, the true cancer of argentina were the bad policies, the neoliberal framework that we still have in some sectors of our economy, which was built by governments of diferent politic parties, some of them were democratic and others were dictatorships, and thats' something that we must desmantle. Beside, despite all the politic problems that we had since 1930 untill 1976, argentina has always been a prosperous nation, that prosperity started actualy with the first peronism, and continued untill 1976, along all those years we had no more than 10% of poor people, a 2% of unemploitmen, and a strong intervention of the state, since 1976, the benefactor state started to be desmantled, and untill 2003, there were very bad policies which decimated our industries, and increased al lot the economic dependence of the nation, in 1983 when we recovered the democracy, we had 24% of poor people, but during the shamefull decade of the 90's, we had betwen 12 and 17% of unemploit people, finally all those bad policies finished with the crisis of 2001, and we had finally 54% of poor people, and 22% of unemploitmen. So, i make this is analysis in order to show that your comment is very partial as usuall, i dont deny that there were peronist governments that destroyed the country, but the were others governments that made so much damage to argentina too. Respecting c. f. k, despite some serious mistakes that she made, i must be honest and recognize also that her and nestor kirchner made a lot for the country, anyway, no matter what i say, it's obvious that you dont like to be ample when you analysis some issues, it's lamentable, but it's your choice.
@77 can you tell me one policy that KFC has implemented that has added to the long term prosperity in Argentina? Just one is fine.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 010 ptolemy (#) - Since your question does not yet appear to be answered, here is what CFK wants to change: The present laws of Argentina require foreign currency (in this case, primarily US dollars) to be kept in reserve equal to the amount of Argentina pesos in circulation. She wants to tap into these reserves to pay interest on borrowed money and to keep paying those who support her. And, she has run out of money!
Mar 05th, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Greek Yoghurt Since the Kirchners are in power the country is experiencing strong economic growth , stable employment, improved living standards,
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0high export growth along with a sharp increase in the Argentine manufacturing
Industry far better than the former president Menem who sold many Argentine firms to overseas interests do your research otherwise you will resemble a donkey.
80 Tigre2000
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, it is your lack of knowledge regarding what the figures mean, that shows your lack on intellect on this subject.
You need to understand the effects of inlflation, pay increases in excess of inflation and what export numbers really tell you.
If you can manage that, which I doubt as you would not be making such stupid comments, THEN we will be able to have a meaningful dialogue.
This is great news for Argentina IMF dictatorship didn't do anything for Argentina but helped the pirates theft all of Argentina wealth, now it's time for the Argentina bank to do the real investing and growing of the economy, rather then pay others to do the job the Argentina bank should be doing.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'82
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is there anybody other than Venezuela, Syria, Argentina and Cuba who arent “pirates” in your opinion?
Also an Argentine calling anyone else a “dictator” is frankly laughable.
How can anyone steal your wealth when you have nothing to steal (your govt has already stolen it from your people).
think
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what are you doing in Chubut, are you Brirish?
if you are why don t you go and talk the same thing that you are talking here?
go to Bs As and said that the Malvinas belong to Uk
then will see whT happen, if you have the guts, but I think you talk too much behind of the protection of your computer, to me you are a coward ratt
GREEK YOGHURT.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comment 78 shows how little you know about the situation of my country, i see that i am not wrong when i say that you just buy easily the so partial information that you heard in the press.
Anyway i give you a couple of points.
Since 2003 were created 5 millions of jobs, in 2005 nestor kirchner cancelled the debt with the i. m. f, and it was necesary to reestructurate the debt, because we could not keep on paying more, if the 55% of the people were poor in 2003.
Beside there is a policy of state for the science and technology, in fact in 2007 c. f. k created the ministry of science and technology, and more than 800 cientists returned to the country thanks to the policies of the government, most those people had left argentina during the decade of the 90's because of the lack of oportunities. Beside, thanks to the previtional policy of the government, the 95% of our old people has a pention, that porcentage was 65 during the 90's, on the other hand, we invert 6,47% of our national production in education, despite the problems that the public education still has, it improved so much in many aspects, beside more than 1300 schools were built. In 2003 nestor kirchner renewed the shameful suprem court that we had before, now we have a very prestigious suprem court, despite he deficiences of the justice in general. In 2009 the congress sanctioned a new broadcast law, which wont let the concentration of oligopolic groups in the media, in 2010 it sanctioned the gay marriage law, it was the happiest day of my life, in the end of 2011, the congress sanctioned the project that declares of public interest the fabrication of paper, which will give the small newspapers an equal acces to the prize of the paper. It sancioned also a new role for the agrarian workers, who suffer terrible conditions of work yet. There is a lot more to add, but i have no more time, anyway like i told you in another comment, her administration has also negative aspects.
@85 If it's all so nice and rosy there in Argentina, then why all the war-mongering and threatening about the Falklands Islands, a democratic Atlantic territory where the people are having a nice time? Why are you bullying them if you're having such a nice time?
Mar 05th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GREEK YOGHURT.
Mar 05th, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When will you be ample when you make an analysis respecting some issue?, when did i say that argentina is all rosy?, didn't you remember my other comment when i said that we are still a very unequal society?, we improved a lot, but there is still a lot to do for our people, i mention it in all my comments, but per haps it's a waste of time to debate with some one who just understands what he wants, like you.
Regarding what you call threatening, this is evident that you are not disposed to make critic for the behaviour of your country, you will just insist with the same pathetic game which is based only on victimizing your side, as long as you dont understand that the hard decitions of our government are due to the rejection of your side, in order to resume the negotaitions, like the u. n and most international comunity signalize, then it's expectable that you'll keep on doing the same pathetic and mediocre analysis that you use to do. Understand once and for all that if there are negotiations, argentina doesn't need to take any of the hard decitions that it took. I already explained you in another comment what c. f. k. said before international forums respecting the true posture of my country regarding the malvinas-falkland dispute, but as usuall it's expectable that you continue buying the omitions and the mediocre analysis of your politicians, like you always do.
Axel nice to meet you, I am from Argentina too but leaving outside the country yet.
Mar 06th, 2012 - 02:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0don t waste your time or energy with thi guy , the youghurt , such a horrible name to choose as nic, but again, you are answering a guy that doesn t know a sh•••t about Argentina, actually I think he never left the island in his life.
Os a matter of time but the Malvinas will be the name in every map in this world
lsolde
Mar 06th, 2012 - 02:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0I could care less what impresses you or not. It is telling you believe that I wrote in “lawyer's English” to impress you. This may be an instance of you overestimating your standing in my list of priorities. Though it is also interesting you seem to contemn those of us who made an effort to educate themselves, as your comments are indicative of a disdain for edifying consuetudes.
Let me put it this way: the more I conclude that the person I am adressing is either a troll, mentally dull, or both, the more sesquipedalian I become. The more I find the person on the other side rational, reasonable, and honorable, the more demotic my language becomes.
It's quizzicaly amusing how some react so affronted by foreigners who do not have complete or near-complete command of English, and also get offended by those of us who have a superior command than most natives themselves.
The sad thing is (and people who know more than one language will attest to this every time), is that monolinguals live their lives, veritably, without the sense of sight. Or alternatively without the sense of hearing. Or the sense of smell.
Because knowing only one language is trully a remarkably similar condition as lacking a major sensory organ. But you only can learn this secret after the fact.
Which is why I chortle when some of you condescend upon the non-native english speaker who cannot command full proficiency. Because their lives are FAR RICHER than yours will ever be. They have access to literature, film, internet, news, music, and theater you shall never experience. And for full disclosure, I know four languages and going on a fifth. So I know what I am talking about. If tomorrow I could no longer read or listen to three of those languages, it would be like losing my legs and my eyesight all at once.
So sad many of you live trully crippled lives, and are oblivious to it like a blind man not knowing what looking at a beautiful sunset or staring at your first love feels like.
@89 tobias,
Mar 06th, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well Mr Thinskin, thats nice for you.
And l couldn't care less that you couldn't care less.
l have occasionally gently corrected some non-native speaker of English here, never condescendingly as you accuse.
And English was not my first language so, l sometimes make mistakes myself.
l'm happy for you that you speak so many diferent languages & l do agree that speaking another language opens a whole new world.
l, myself am not monolingual either.
No, you didn't write in Lawyer's English to impress me.
You were showing off.
Believing that you were superior, using words that a native English speaker would scaresly understand.
On another post when l chided a blogger for his lack of respect for women, you assumed that l was actually supporting him & agreeing with him.
You have a very fragile ego, señor & you still did not explain, why as a non-malvinista, you do in fact support their ridiculous “claims”.
@87,88 The Malvinas doesn't exist. Therefore the Malvinas Issue doesn't exist, well except for in the minds of Argentinians. End of Story.
Mar 07th, 2012 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@89 Tobias, most of the British people in the forum are not poor. So why would we bother learning non-democratic pseudo-mafia run poor people just to hear them botting on about how they greedily want to own your land. It's not worth bothering to learn it if that's the outcome. At least learn Portuguese because then you can speak to Brazilians, and they're not as poor.
I am sure that most Argentines just want to geton with their lives and do not give a hoot about the Falkands - perhaps it will be different once the oil starts to flow
Mar 09th, 2012 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few facts for both you gringos and Argies.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 01. The Falklands are part of the South American continental shelf. Not part of Europe.
2. There are many islands in the South American continental shelf which are not owned by the geographically correct countries, e.g.. Trinidad and Tobago and Netherlands Antilles.
3. Argentina is a notorious land grabber. In 1881 Whist the entire Chilean armed forces where occupying Peru, after the victory of the war of the pacific. The Argentines mobilized their forces and forced the Chilean government to had over the entire Patagonia region east of the Andes to Argentina. Our forces had no way to counter this act, because of this treacherous move the infamous treaty of 1881 ensued. Further more in 1978 they tried it again(Wiki Operation Soberanía) This time it didn't work as we dug in along the frontier and waited. On the night of 21/12/78 they retreated.
4. It is for this reason that very very very few Chileans support the Argentine Falklands claim. There is little love between our peoples, even though both governments put a positive spin on our relations (for business and investment purposes) and the “official” position is that the Falklands are Argentine. No one should expect any support for Argentina from Chile should there be a military move against the islands.
@93,
Mar 09th, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for that information.
l believe that they want an empire, taking over Chile, Uruguay, the Falklands & Antarctica.
Haven't they got enough land? Argentina is a big country.
lf it was properly developed, then they could all live a comfortable life.
You've gotta love the new guy Pepegalleta, he does try so, so hard to prove his importance and intellect, but fails at every attempt. I hope he stays here, and posts on a frequent basis. I really do love to read post submitted by him, and others alike.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 094 lsolde
Mar 09th, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't you hear of the Russian tale “How much land does one man need” what it boils down to is this bloke does a favour for a rich guy and so to reward him the rich guy say to him “You can have as much land as you can run round between sunrise and sunset”
Of course, you can all guess the outcome. The man starts off, thinking himself so lucky and is planning what a nice house he will build on his land and what crops he will grow, but then he starts seeing a wood or lake that he likes the look of so he starts to go further and further out to encompass them as well, before he knows it, it's late afternoon so he has got to sprint back to the rich man's house to claim his prize.
When he does finally get back, just as the sun is setting, he dies of a heart attack because he has pushed himself too far . The rich man concludes that all the land the poor man ever needed was about 6ft long and 3 foot wide, just enough to bury him in.
The Argentinian's learnt that lesson for themselves in 1982.
I hope that they haven't forgotten it already......
@lsolde,
Mar 09th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Before I explain why I support the malvinistas claims, it would help if you provided a quote by me where this is the case. I have a supernal eidetic memory, but my linguistic-phrasic memory forsakes me.
I'll give you a few weeks for the task.
Cada uno - Ladrones
Mar 09th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What else could you expect from a friend of Chavez?
93 the Chilean, then ylu support the idea that Chilean people doesn t like Argentinians?, then it wasn t Pinochet who colaborated with UK, was him plus people like you, then don t ask for help in every natural desastre, then tell all the south chileans to don t come to Argentina to get medical care and to work, tell the all the Chilean students to go back to Chile, students from Chile come to study in Argentina becouse is free, in Chile education is not for free, Chile was a very bad neighbour country for Arfentina and with you now I understand that wasn t Pinochet who helped UK in 82, was people like you.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina doesn t need anything from Chile, but Chile needs Argentina.
Take care and be happy if you can
Countries in the 1800s were land grabbers?? OMG, WTF... you mean Argentina was a land grabber, in the time when the USA stole half of Mexico? Or when the USA forced the British to cede the nortwest or lose all of Canada? (sounds like the Patagonian strategy to me?
Mar 09th, 2012 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or when the UK controlled large stretches of Africa and India? Or when France did also? And when Germany began to conceive of plans for an Empire in Europe? And when Italy had the Resorgimento and the plans for a second Roman Empire? And when Brazil with the Bandeiristas took over vast stretches of Paraguayan territory? And when Spain still held Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, etc? and when Russia expanded all the way to Siberia??
OMG, we are doomed as argies, we were so evil as land grabbers.
The people on this board are a great source of fun with their selective indignation at Argentina.
100 tobias
Mar 09th, 2012 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are mistaken tobias, the majority of the colonial countries no longer grab land.
I think Argentina are still so immature that they genuinely consider it O.K. to want the Falklands (there are no Malvinas). And wanting it means they can grab it, by hook or by crook as the saying goes.
As usual, they are delusional. It will not happen until the Islanders WANT it to happen.
@101. Please ignore Tobias. Argentina hasn't quite yet reached the 'developed' world like most countries. When I think of Argentina, I think of a country like Spain was during the 'Franco years'.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmmm... I was responding to the comments about the argentine annexations of southern Paraguay, and the agreements with Chile with many Chileans think was a theft. Either way, that's how things were in the 1800s, the golden age of nationalism.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0102 you are wrong
Mar 09th, 2012 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@102 I think the best reason for ignoring Tobias is because he belches forth lies, whilst sitting on his bed of lies and reading books about new ways to tell lies.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know it's a deep seated cultural value to tell fibs in Argentina, but he does make it into a kind of art.
Fibs? I only allow you one new word per day in your own language, yoghurt. Remember, my 3rd language is better than your lone.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@106 you shut it, and get back to lying on your bed of untruths.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't need a third language, one language is good enough for me. You're just upset because you speak spanish and so we know you're poor.
You shut it? Don't let me creep into your scabrous dermis. Keep it civil, you would not want to damage your reputation here.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
@108 I don't have a reputation, whereas you do. You're an argentinian, therefore you're untrustworthy, hypocritical, a closet-nazi, renege on every agreement you sign, you tell lies and you have no idea about property law.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess the only way is up for some folks.
Nope, I'm actually straightfoward, objective, hate racists like those on this board, have great credit, tell the truth because I stick to the facts, and know your language better than you (and my country, and virtually any other topic conceivable).
Mar 09th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, it's been fun, this one-on-12 (greekyoghurt, cestrian, briton, Pugol-h, conqueror, marlayback, the FalklandsareBritish, Chris, xbarilox, Idleheads, and a few others who escape me), in seven or eight different topics, for the past 3 hours or so.
It only felt like I was debating one person in one topic, on an intellectual level. I'm not even tired, but my hands are, I gotta go to study now, my mind is real sharp after this minor sparring for me.
Je me casse... à tout à l'heure les Rostbifs!
@110 “I stick to the facts”, well that's not in any way true. But that's what we've come to expect from an Argentinianian.
Mar 09th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 099 pepegalleta & 100 tobias.
Mar 10th, 2012 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, you guys may not like the TRUE facts, but that's your problem not mine.
Sure, the Falklands are on the South American continental shelf, but does that mean they belong to Argentina? I don't think so.
As for pepegalleta I have heard all the same crap before.
1. Chileans do not hate Argentines. We don't consider Argies “brothers”, at best distant cousins. Please understand that we are not enemies, we just DO NOT TRUST YOU OR ANYTHING YOU SAY!!
2. Pinochet remained “neutral” and did not take advantage, but the Brits got intelligence from us during the war. If Argentina invaded again, the same thing would happen. We wouldn't attack Argentina, but intelligence would flow freely to the Brits.
3. Natural disasters are not war. So they don't count. And for the aid you gave us, we would give you aid right back if you have a disaster.
4. As long as your central planing economic model continues to rob the Argentines in northern and other regions of Argentina to subsidize the south of Argentina I assure you that southern Chileans will be happy to gorge themselves with your FREE health and education, in fact anything free sounds like a good deal even if others in your country are going without. I can't blame these people or even the 500,000 leftist Chileans who left during the Pinochet regime as they are typically people who love to suckle at the teat of the state. They stay in Argentina because they know in Chile they have to work for a living. So sorry about that.
@97 tobias,
Mar 10th, 2012 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0l am not going to play your silly games.
Why are you so defensive?
Of course we are going to say naughty things about Argentina.
The Argentines on here continualy say equally bad things about us.
And the lies they spout.
lf they were children you would wash their mouth out with soap.
What are you studying?
THE CHILEAN PERSPECTIVE.
Mar 10th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I done deny the terrible things that happened in this country in the past, like the shameful tripple alliance war, anyway if you lock at your past too, you'll realise that you are not much better than us neather.
On the other hand, i respect your conservative opinion respecting economic issues, but i dont agree on it in absolut. If the state doesn't help the people, in an continent with such a big social unequeality, then what's the true function of the state?, in many european countries like france, germany, the services are subsided, and i dont think that they are having leftist governments at the moment. We dont suck noone's teat, it's very easy to criticise those people who pay subsided services, but noone tells you that many of us, except for the rich, and the high middle class mightn't pay the true valour of the services, if we weren't subsided by the state, beside, if you think that in argentina we dont have to work for a living, that shows that you know anything about us, except for the partial knowledege that you can heard in the press. If the state doesn't invert the 6,47% in public education, then many people mightn't pay a private school, in fact, in our public universities, we have many chilean students, and from most southamerica, anyway i dont deny that the public sistem is always collapsed, but unless, you will alwasy recieve health and education, they are are not nor a bussines, nor a privilege, they are human rights, so, the state has the obligation of making enough inverstments in those sectors. But i see that may be you dont think the same like me, i respect it, but luckilly i dont agree in absolut on it.
The CHILEAN
Mar 10th, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your way, but I don t think Chile is a good country to be, ylu are trating to show your country as a model and there isn t.
I am in US, per long time, even here the government heps people with out resources and hete everything is capitalismo, who told you that in Argentina people doesn t work?, becouse reading your ad you are sure that in Argentina nobody works.
Why the most importants transnationals corporations builded the central offices in Argentina and Brasil cociderer Chile as a regionsl country?,
Is Microsoft in Chile or there are resalers in Chile?,
If you have the time explain me way the biggest corporation concider Chile as a part of the region but not important enough to set up a regional headquarter?,
You are right, Argentina snd Chile will never be brothers, we think too different. It wasn t Pinochet who made the Chileans ultraderechistas, is the way that it is and I don t like it,chilean people think that has a great country, but Chile is a fragil country with natural disastres that can hapends any time.
If something big happens and will is amatter of time, what are you gonna do? where are yiu looking for shelter?, US will not give you legal papers to come here where I an, UK less, Argentina hope not do it. Becareful, in South America the only one who is going to gelp you and your family wirh like you said the free stuff is ARGENTINA, the people that you said doesn t work.
And remember one more thing , We the Argentinians are who runs the Chilean corporations, we are the investors and we are the VP and CEO.
Sorry but Chile is to small to be conciderer as an a important economy and less ateactive to investors, first create a market then we can talk.
Plus regarding education, Chile still has the old idea about People without education us easy to manage, that is way your government likes the education with high prices that normal people can t affort.
See it wasn t Pinochet, is people like y
Have fun in ykur small land.
#112 “the 500,000 leftist Chileans who left during the Pinochet regime as they are typically people who love to suckle at the teat of the state. ”
Mar 10th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or because they were fleeing the torture and murder inflicted on so many of their comrades who stayed, supporters may I remind you not of some terrorist but of the democratically elected President. While I can follow the lead of axel at 114 and disagree with respect with your conservative economic views (which I think he comprehensively, if respectfully, deconstructs), I can't respect this inane slur against your own countrymen and women, victimised by the dictator you no doubt still support
Chile is not best example as a democratic country
Mar 10th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0115 pepegalleta. Chile is far from being a “ Good” country. We have many flaws and inperfections, but please remember that we were in the stone age only 39 years ago. As recently as 1993 Argentina's GDP p/c nom. was US$7500 compared to Chile's US$3900. For most of the last century we were one of the poorest of the South American countries.
Mar 12th, 2012 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Things are changing for Chileans, we now have an economy open to the world, competing openly and growing IN REAL TERMS (this is growth minus inflation).
Today we are happy to report that in our path to developed country status, we have a GDP p/c nominal @US$13969 compared to Argentina's US$10639. You say Chile's economy is small compared to yours, well US$203 billion from only 17 million people is much better than US$369 billion from 40 million people (2010). We have a long way to go and many challenges ahead but this growth is built over solid ground, built to last. Not like your central planning, adhock, make it up as you go, business unfriendly high inflation model.
Another very important point is Foreign Direct Investment. In Chile it was US$136 billion in 2010 but in Agentina it was only US$86 billion. This shows confidence in our “small” economy. Foreign private & gov debt in Argentina was US$3,971 per capita or almost 40% of your GDP per capita nom. Compare this with the tiny US$280 (2%)per capita in Chile.
You say a lot of silly things but look at this fact. Chile directly invested abroad US$51.1 billion in 2010 (mainly in Peru and Argentina), compared to US$30.1 billion for “giant” Argentina.
Little Chile undeniably has a long way to go, but we have an open, transparent and progressive government, complete with the leftist subsidies Latinos like (far fewer than Argentina) we are getting there and leaving all others behind in the process. Read the facts for yourself.
Argentina is not the only country where the president dips his/her hands into the cookie jar. Think of Africa and you will find worse examples.
Mar 12th, 2012 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do not forget Venezuela.
118 The Chilean, I undrestand what you said but Chile will stop to be attractive for external investors, only 17.000.000, is the natural way. Plus remember one thing is when the gorvernment has the money snd other thinh is when the people has the money
Mar 12th, 2012 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Plus Chile is not a permanent member of the Mercosur. Where there are the bigest economies in s America becouse of Bras
I don t think Chile will grow more than Argentina, you need a biger market than 17.000.000 plus the advantage for external investors in free trading in Mercosur. Sorty but as soon as the world economy shows some signs of positivismo Mercosur is a BIG MARKET more important than the Chilean.
Chile is looking for to be part of Mercosur, is an associate today, but I don t think Mercosur will accept CHile as a permanent member on the near futu. What is good point for Chile is the Pacific, Mercosur is looking for a pacific exit, that could put Che in Mercosur, but Peru is pushing too and has the Pacific exit too.
Will see what happen, but Mercosur market is more important than Chilean market.
Regarding Argentina all CFK mess will be solve with the next president that can t be a zkirchnerista party and hope not even a peronista party president.
There are smart people that want to make Argebtina grow strong, has the resources.
saludo
“Regarding Argentina all CFK mess will be solve with the next president that can t be a zkirchnerista party ” Well surely thats for the people to decide, even under current rules theres nothing to stop a loyal follower of Cristina from being elected next time. Or better yet, the constitution can be changed so the people can continue to elect their indispensible champion, if they want to (and why wouldn't they?)
Mar 12th, 2012 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0THE CHILEAN PERSPECTIVE.
Mar 12th, 2012 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a answer for you, in my comment 114.
On the other hand, i know that chile has very good social and economic indexes, but you are very missinformed respecting some issues about argentina.
Firstly, i donde deny that allthough our social and economic indexes improved a lot, due to the record in the expantion of our economic activity, however we are still a very unequal society, there is a lot to do for our people yet. Anyway, it will take many years to solve all the problems that we have, like the inflation level, which is based mostly on the huge economic concentration that we have in the most important sectors of the economy, those enterprizes won so much money with the policies of this government, but they dont do enough inverstments, and increase the prizes of the products.
120 pepegalleta & 122 axel arg.
Mar 12th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true that we are only 17 million and we can never have an internal market like Argentina's. Yes, but that is why our inflation is so low. We have an export based economy, not a consumption/debt based economy. Your central bank prints money like crazy, increasing the money supply by more than 30% per annum. This is what causes inflation. If you get a responsible government, and I hope you do because a healthy Argentina is very good for Chile, then they should reduce the money printing and this will slow inflation almost straight away (interest rates will go up, but it's a small price to pay), and cool down the economy.
Investments in Chile are mainly for export related activities. For example Maersk of Denmark is building a massive factory for the manufacture of over 40,000 refrigerated sea containers per annum. These containers are for export. Maersk is cleaverly going to be able to sell these containers duty free to most countries in Asia,Europe and the US because of the free trade agreements Chile has with them.
As for Mercosur I don't think it is a free trade organization. I know that Argentina has made it difficult for some Chilean products to enter and also for some Brazilian (mercosur), but this doesn't worry me. We buy a lot from Argentina (10%) good products and cheap so it would be stupid to buy from someone else and pay more. Saludos.
Hi my friend from Chile, did I told you I have familiy in Santiago?, abd Chilean friends in Usa snd Argentina.
Mar 12th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Chile will be part of Mercosur in the future, plus will be for Mercosur Free trades with North America like NAFTA, I am in California and here is common to find a lot products from Chile and Argentina.
To US and after several priblems Argentina is istill attractive for US investments.
Regarding inflation, you ate right, Argentina needs to stop printing ? But remember what happened in 2091. Since that time the government is helping people in come way with mony that belings to the state.
Plus we never close the borders, that mean every day there is more people coming to Argentina, mostly poor people from different countrys.
Argentina never closed the door, the problem with all this people is that as soon that are in Argentina, goverments like CFK pay to this people in some kind of subsidio just to buy theyr voto.
but I think Sud America will be the future big region and US will help to create good consumers, remember US will need to make more attractive the region to face Uropa and Asia.
US knows that if can integrate in some way the most importants states in America, this will be the best market to invest
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