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US Judge criticizes Argentine ‘continued intransigence’ in refusing to honour lawful debts

Friday, March 30th 2012 - 07:42 UTC
Full article 36 comments

A US judge threw out claims by bondholders on up to 2.21 billion dollars of Argentine funds held at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, but criticized the country’s “continued intransigence” in refusing to pay creditors holding defaulted debt. Read full article

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  • Troneas

    US District Judge Thomas Griesa should be in a museum. Friggin dinosaur.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    Too be honest screw them.
    They took a punt on high return from a flaky south american economy.
    It went tits up there was a deal sucks to be you.
    They decided not to go for it :(
    Investing sometimes you win sometimes you lose

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troneas

    @2. “flaky south american economy” you say?

    its the 21st economy in the world today and a bold statement by an american when the US was in the verge of defaulting a year ago and still keeps taking money from the Chinese to pay its bills.

    want to talk about the real estate debacle that brought the US into recession, thousands lost their jobs and trade suffered across the globe?

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Audi Consilium

    @3 “its the 21st economy in the world today and a bold statement by an american when the US was in the verge of defaulting a year ago ”

    Mmm, I'm sure that the US & UK could be much higher in the economy stakes if they too had simply torn up agreements, judgements, ignored their international obligations and acted wholly without honour or decency, which of course is needed to ensure a decent intenational trading reputation. I think 'flaky south american economy' very neatly sums it up !!

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @3 “its the 21st economy in the world today” That's horse-sh!t. The only reason they're not 50th is because the reporting was based upon INDEC biased results. They sign-up to contracts and then fail to pay their bonds, instead choosing to force swaps on folks as a part of their restructuring. Anyone who doesn't go along with this theft is called a 'vulture' and a 'guerrilla'.

    The question isn't whether Argentina should be in the G20, the question is whether Argentina should be in the G77.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    Er I'm british .
    Argentina historicaly not the best history of stability so basicaly any investing woulud have been high risk high return unless somebody was a complete idiot.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @6 Or high risk then restructuring then bond swap at 1/3 the original price then return.

    That's high risk, terrible terrible return.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @6 One other factor to consider was that at the time the US bond traders were promoting Argentina as the 'poster boy' for South America. Every 'expert' in the US was encouraging investment in Argentina. The IMF was throwing money at the country and indulging it like a spoilt child. Unfortunately, Argentina acted like a spoilt child and spent the money without adhering to any of the terms of the loans.

    High risk, yes, but at the time investors were being misled by both the US investment banks and the Argentine government.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troneas

    @4. Of course they meet every international obligation. They have to. They created the system, they still control it and they've prospered by it.

    last thing they need is for developing countries to develop even more proof that they have been abused for the past 100 years in benefit of the rich countries.

    @5. Its the IMF who says so you moron. Your obsession with INDEC is making you look silly. do some research before explaining every single aspect of argentina's economy as a result of an INDEC number. All INDEC does is come up with a price index for a range of products - and measure inflation accordingly.

    There are private organizations that do this same thing and the IMF or anyone else can chose which source to trust to reach a conclusion on what they are working on.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    9. Actually the IMF has been barred from auditing Argentina for the last 8 years, so no you can't use them as a reference for the economic figures. That will probably change this year though.
    All of the economic reporting from INDEC, poverty, GDP, Inflation have been skewed for the last 8 years. They're all wrong and it is going to be really ugly, embarrassing and costly when the IMF audits. It is estimated ARG has underpaid Inflation linked bonds by the 10s of BILLIONS of U$. More than you currently have in BCRA reserves.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yul

    #8 E.B /
    You are talking about Argentina past time ...present time is different.!

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    I guess the Americans have succesfully put back together the trillion-strong Subprime puzzle and all the money has been recovered there, and the Europeans the same with the also trillion-strong Sovereign debts and their private banks. Now we can focus on more important things, like a couple of billon from Argentina... :)

    What's a trillion when you can have a billion?

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    12. What does one thing have to do with the other? USA UK EU are still richer and more respected than Argentina even though you went through what will probably be your best economic ( almost) decade in your lifetime and we went through our worst. Yet we are still on top and you are still near the bottom and sinking every year.
    One bright spot about being at the near the bottom of the world economies the others have to do REALLY REALLY BAD before you can sink any further.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    No we didn't, the INDEC made the numbers up as you always point out.

    So we have been doing awful for 10 years yet still somehow are able to fake it somewhat.

    You are sad, to you the only form of respect is money. Money, money, money. Which obviously means you piss on those poorer than you in real life. Either you are a spoiled 17 year old, or living on a trust fund you did nothing to earn. LOL... and you think those who work for a living are worthy of less respect. Poor kid.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I don't think you made it ALL up, but a good portion, absolutely! Everyone is in agreement that Inflation grossly mis-reported by at least 2X, so in turn your poverty is much greater than was reported. I think GDP was also reported erroneously possibly by the same inverse percentage.
    You have to think like the Ks, tell the lie over and over and eventually some people will believe it. Under reporting the Inflation gave them 2 very good short term outcomes, it lowered the inflation indexed bond interest payments for 8 years and it made people believe inflation was under control ( just ask dumb Axel). Now over reporting GDP wasn't quiet so good but you can't have 25% inflation with 2-3% growth it doesn't sound as great, but 8-9% like China well that's something they can be proud of. The problem is, if there was real growth how come tax receipts never quite kept up or reflected the “growth” but closely matched the real inflation rate? Hmm tricky, they need more $ to keep goings say about U$10-15 Billion a year, not as much in the first few years but more and more as time went on. So the take Anses assets, and add the monthly contributions to the general tax revenue stream, hmm that got them through 2 years, BCRA another 10-15Billion, another 2-3 yrs do you see how they do this? They have been stealing all the hard assets out of the country and replacing them with worthless Arg bonds. The accounts still look like they have a balance but they really don't. Funny I think it was only yesterday CFK stole another U$3.3 B from Ansess and it wasn't mentioned anywhere until the NYSE started asking where it came from.
    Why do you think they want YPF? U$1.1 B in cash on hand, not a lot but when you are counting pennies it all helps.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @9 Tronearse, little fella, don't get so upset about your lying government producing sh!t statistics and feeding them into the IMF. I'd say Argentina are probably at about 78 which puts you outside of the G77.

    This makes you mad, right? really upset?

    @14 Respect is nothing about money, it's about paying your bills, not reneging on contracts (changing the terms of your bonds) and treaties (1850 Treaty of Friendship between Arg & UK), not bullying (Falklands), not invading other people's territory (Falklands), upholding international law (unmapped minefields) and a wide range of other things.

    Argentina doesn't earn any respect, nor does it earn any money.

    @15 U$2.1 Billion for new planes isn't a lot either.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Oh oh! Breaking news you heard it from me first!

    United States, European Union (Germany, Italy, France, Spain, United Kingdom, Portugal, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Norway, Finland, Austria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Greece, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria Slovakia), Swizterland, South Korea, Israel, Japan, Australia, Canada, South Africa, Turkey formally file grievances against the Republic of Argentina at the WTO.

    China, New Zealand, El Salvador, India, Vietnam Philippines, Honduras, Panama formally encourage the action but did not sign the agreement.

    Russia and Malaysia did not officially encouraged but Russia said it would not oppose.

    Mercosur members (Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay), plus Chile, Peru and Colombia said they will not take part but “understand” the sentiments, however will attempt to further work bilaterally with Argentina.

    This is breaking news across the 24 hour news channels.

    OOOH NOOOO... What we do now??? Please, stop!

    Fools! This only strengthens CFK because now it is official she can make it an “us against the world” argument.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @17 It's at this time that KFC should phone her friend Kim Jong-un and discuss next steps.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    17, What no reply? but why did you leave this part of the FT article out?
    High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2acd5706-7a8e-11e1-8ae6-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1qdDrM4E1

    The action on Friday from countries including some of Argentina’s major trading partners is a high-profile slap in the face for the heterodox trade policies of Cristina Fernández, Argentina’s president, and a diplomatic embarrassment for the G20 member.

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    I didn't get the info from the FT, I got it from television! And then wrote the countries using a local paper www.losandes.com.ar

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    Did your local paper say when you're going to get ejected from the WTO and G20? Does that mean your foreign secretary is going to have less forums to embarass himself whilst boring people at about Uruguay stealing your resources and land or brazil militarising the south atlantic with their nuclear submarine and dassault rafale planes that are in range of the falklands, in order to bomb them?

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xbarilox

    Cristina, hello? Where are you darling? It's a call for you hahaha She is in El Calafate, I think.

    ”The funds are not the property of the Republic of Argentina” Griesa said, adding that the money was being held for “traditional central bank functions.”

    @ 17 Un poco de dignidad, loquita, pasaste de hacerte la macha a escribir con ironía para disimular tu dolor de ogt. Estás cagada en las patas mami y ahora sabés que el mundo se caga en ustedes, peronistas de mierda :)

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    Interesting xbarilox, that you have never stated what your wishes are for the fate of Argentina. You only criticize, you never say what you would like to see.

    Could it be because “Argentina's utter destruction and annihiliation of our race” would make you a bit of an extremist and not the rational poster you try to pretend to be?

    Mar 30th, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Helber Galarga

    Who gives a flying rats arse what this judge has to say.

    As far as I am concerned those who invested in a risky should man up and deal with their losses due to Argenitna having defaulted. I cannot remember them or others complaining when these same investors were ripping big time benefits when the risk was playing in their favour.
    They kind of remind me of idiots who go to the casino play roulette and win and are all happy about it and proud and go back home and tell their friends who much they know about the game. Yet when they lose, they blame bad luck.

    Tough luck suckers!! learn to know the risk much better than you did for future times. Until them happy losses. In fact, I enjoy knowing the've lost a lot of money.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 01:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • brit abroad

    heir helber,

    you ever borrowed money from a bank? if so did you ever default on the payments?

    What you tell the bank? “man up you shouldnt have given me the credit card in the first place you idiots”

    I always thought you were one of the clever people from RGland....now i am doubting it!

    these people by owing them can hurt you alot more than you c;early understand

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Helber Galarga

    Brit abroad,

    if you wish to compare taking a loan from a bank to speculating with bonds and shares, I'd strongly suggest you work on your comparisons.

    Besides, Argentine paid 90% percent of it's defaulted debt. These were stubborn and greedy idiots. Serves them right

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @26 Why? When you get a loan from a bank it's the same as selling the bank a number of personal bonds. The comparison is correct.

    I love how you La Campora Gimps call them stubborn and greedy as if it's they who are in the wrong and not Argentina for just being a morally and economically bankrupt hell hole. Way to go with your projection there, maximo.

    You're not very clever are you.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MistyThink

    These are classic English ( not British..becouse we support the Welsh,Scots,N.Irish) intrigues to distract its South Atlantic actions where it can' solve and has no any arguments against Argentina...and it is pinched there......

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Helber Galarga

    @27 Greek
    No, they are not the same.

    One has more risk attached to it pays higher dividends. If you don't know that much well then you are truly in trouble.
    And if it has more risk attached to it, then you have to deal with unfortunate events.
    You gamble ....
    you lose,
    you STFU

    pretty simple actually. Notwithstanding, I don't expect you to grasp it given that your previous contributions announced as Critical Thought included sentences such as “So he's basically just your typical argentinian.”

    So, I am not surprised you won't understand. But, hell, don't lose hope mate, you just might come around...

    Good luck
    YOu'll need it

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    if somebody goes bankrupt as argentina did you lose your investment thats why it was high intrest because of the risk.
    same with greece get a good rate of retun but a good risk of losing evrything.
    uk low intrest low chance of losing everything.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @29 You're an imbecile Galarga, Bonds don't pay dividends... they pay their interest via coupons. When banks take on the equivalent of personal bonds when providing people with loans, the interest relates to how risky they feel the individual is. Bonds on the other hand are bought from primary or secondary market and their popularity dictates their value. There is little practical difference, but you wouldn't know that because your government doesn't pay what it owes.

    Since Argentina forced most of the people that bought it's bonds to accept a debt exchange of 1/3 the value, and recently reopened this hilarious debt exchange ... the popularity of argentinian bonds has only been popular in Venezuela.

    I guess you Le Camping Gimps are just waiting for the central bank foreign reserves to be depleted before you're unleashed on the Argentinian public in order to keep order.

    Enjoy.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    1/3 the value is far better than if they had invested in the many failed companies in your countries in recent years. How much would they have gotten in return with those stocks?

    1/3.... of 1%.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @32 The FTSE is doing very nicely, thanks for asking. Considering the situation with the Global markets and the need to recapitalise the banks, it all seems to be going okay.

    Whereas you have rampant inflation, no one will lend you any money, you have to barter in order to get LNG and corruption is losing billions out of your coffers.

    Our situation is much better than yours. Have you been kicked out of the G77 yet?

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    The primary worry of the average Argentine is the rampant inflation. Not many look at the bigger picture; in fact they are an incredibly egocentric nation.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GreekYoghurt

    @34 Rampant inflation is the least of their worries. They should be worried about what happens 'after' the rampant inflation.

    It's not going to be 'happy land' for at least a generation.

    Mar 31st, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SussieUS

    @ 35 Greek Youghurt (#)
    Here in the US we are are not in a “happy land” for the next generation. Who can afford to buy food? We are all trembling about the 15 trillon foreign debt and financial crisis that the “food stamps” US President Obama cannot resolved.

    Apr 03rd, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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