MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“The Falklands belong to the Islanders” and are the key to the question
“The Falkland Islands belong to you, the Islanders”, said one of Argentina’s top political analysts and journalists Mariano Grondona. Although the quote, from the Penguin News, dates back to October 1998 when he was invited to the Islands by the Falklands Legislative Council, Mr. Grondona has not betrayed the statement and reiterated his opinion. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho cares what Grondona once said............
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I say :
These Islands belong to the ...London appointed “” VETO“” powered Governor.........This is reality.................!
1
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That is not the case at all. We have the option to determine our nationality and we choose to be British with the system we have, including the governor with his power of veto. If we choose otherwise we are free to do so.
We don't do so.
( 2 )
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell to N.Irish,Welsh,Scots....not to me ...!!
What this clearly shows is that the Falkland Islanders themselves are doing themselves a really big disservice by not engaging with people in the region.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is a big mistake in my opinion.
I am 100% behind the Falklanders and whilst I realise that the Uk is responsible for foreign affairs on the islands the Falklanders themselves should be doing all they can to portray themselves in the international arena as the masters of their own destiny and should be seducing others to get on board with that as well.
At the minute my opinion is that the RG's are having it all their own way and a real incentive for the islanders has to be to invite members of the RG government over to the falklands for dialogue. If the Rg govt doesnt take that option then it will be a real feather in the FI cap. The FI should also make it known who they have invited and what the response has been to that invitation.
Isolationism isnt the correct option. Invite the Brazilians over, invite the chileans and even if they make statements that you dont like they will at least have gone away with a completely different impression of the islands.
Perhaps the islanders should be inviting South american nations to benefit from the oil. money talks and if the Rg's dont want to play ball then that doesnt mean that say the chileans might not take advantage of the situation, the Uruguayans, the Paraguayans etc.
quite simply the wind has to be taken out of the sails of the Rg's.
3
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody from those places have told me that my Falkland Islands has no such choices. It was you that intimated it.
I was in the public meeting with Grandona that evening in 98. Very interesting it was too. When he visited camp he kept asking everybody where the peasants were. He seemed to expect to find people living in slums somewhere. Everyone just laughed at him. He learnt a lot during his visit, as does everyone who ever comes for a look for themselves.
Does the islanders know that Mr Grondona was in favour of the Falkland/Malvinas war in 1982 and that Mr Grondona was a media ally from the dictatorship? nope? well, now you know it and how cares what he says
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 03
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody from those places have told me that my Falkland Islands has no such choices. It was you that intimated it.
I was in the public meeting with Grandona that evening in 98. Very interesting it was too. When he visited camp he kept asking everybody where the peasants were. He seemed to expect to find people living in slums somewhere. Everyone just laughed at him. He learnt a lot during his visit, as does everyone who ever comes for a look for themselves.
3
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are their of their own free will.
You people seem to forget, ,
But that’s the trouble with some,
As Jesus once said,
Forgive them father, for they not what they say,
They are after all only argies,,,,are they not .
Murky do you even know what you're typing? Your logic is strong anti-logic.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Does it matter? Your president is a Peronist, a follower of an ideology that was formed from the founder's relationships of such moral pariahs as Hitler, Mussolini and probably the pope du jour. Kirchnerism is the bastard child of german Nazism festered and fermented in South America.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bearing that in mind, we're all allowed to change our minds, including KFC and Mr Grondona. I somehow think KFC will not though.
1998 “Former Councillor fatcat and a c....k Lewis invited Dr. Grondona”
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is Lewis “Chair of the Malvinas 2012 Committee” now? Hmmm
( 9 )
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't comment...just said the reality as “” ...... London appointed “” VETO “” powered Governor....
Grondona was an ally of the dictatorship, he even made articles in newspaper of “what good was the dictatorship” and there are videos in youtube where he says the 1982 war was the right thing to do...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so you can see the kind of person he is...
@11
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so what?
the problem with you RG's is that you have it totally your own way and you are shit scared that anyone else in SA will see what the situation is actually like on the islands.
your version of events is believed because has not been enough time and effort spent by the Falklanders themselves to invite people over and show them what its actually like.
there has to be more of a transition in this process from the Uk govt doing the talking to the FIG doing the talking.
That would sharp change the minds of people and your myths and brain washing would be shown up for exactly that.
you never hear anyone, ever coming away from the islands with a negative view of what the situation is. Its always a case of people saying “i never knew what it was like and I now know what the situation is and support the islanders”.
Ignorance about the FI from an RG point of view is bliss.
Islanders - divide and conquer.
@13 Nestor Kirchner walked out of negotiations over Falklands resources, nullifying any requirement for the UK to negotiate.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enjoy that fact.
14 The Cestrian
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are correct.
12- the water is to muddy for you to see clearly,,is it not .
Thank god for an Argentinian point of view that makes sense. I feel sorry for the people of Argentina. After reading @htimermans English language twitter account, it is clear that these poor people are being led by complete and utter lunatics!! It's time for a revolution in Argentina!
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i'm quite disappointed at how the RG's have been allowed to have such a one sided conversation. what is becoming increasingly clear is that the UK/FIG stance of saying nothing is not the correct one. As far as the Rg's are concerned this is not going to go away and the UK/FIG have to recognise this and have a clear diplomatic strategy on this.
We all know that if necessary the UK will have an extremely aggressive military response if push comes to shove but this is simply not required if the foreign Office and the FIG get this right.
@4. This has been one of the most sensible things I've read in this site for a long time.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doing as much as possible to phase out the notion that Britain uses the islands to further their own agenda would go along way to make your claim of “self-determination” credible.
But its not easy to convince Argentineans of this when the islanders do absolutely nothing to foster friendship. They don't invite Argentinian legislators to visit (or if they do they pick one that thinks like them) and hide under UK skirts at the smallest inconvenience.
The war has ended 30 years ago - and in case the islanders didn't quite get it yet, it is less tolerable for Argentina to accept self-determination than it is to accept British presence and influence over the south atlantic islands. Hence why Argentina is willing to accept their lifestyle, language, customs and so on as per the Constitution.
But the whole attitude: “Just let us be” or “leave us alone” is something that won't happen. There are two sides to the story. And if you want to be left alone then don't complain when the air links get cut off, when your ships aren't allowed to dock and so on and so forth.
09/10/1998
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ It was during the program Mariano Grondona
There was much talk of war and some sovereignty”
”For two hours, the journalist Mariano Grondona, transmitted from the Islands on Channel 9 a debate between islanders and a panel of argentinos. A Malvinas table sat the directors, Mike Summers and Lewis Clifton, businessman Stuart Wallace: a housewife (Joyce Allan) a young man (Tom Blake) a newspaper publisher Penguin News, Lisa Rideell and Director of Mineral Resources, Phillis Rendell.En Buenos Aires, Edelmira Cao, the mother of a fallen soldier in Malvinas, Hector Beiroa President Federation of War, Monsignor Justo Laguna, and journalists Magdalena Ruiz Guinazu, Edgardo Esteban (veteran)“
”the veteran and journalist Edgardo Esteban asked the kelpers to leave their caves and do not be afraid”
http://edant.clarin.com/diario/1998/10/09/t-01701d.htm
I think, given that the thirtieth anniversary of the war - started by Argentina - was imminent, it was important for the Argentines to be reminded that TFIs would be defended by Britain if necessary. However I agree that now this has been established beyond doubt the FIG should do more of the talking,
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know, the Birtish are taskmasters at diplomacy and this may already be in the long-term plan. So far, quitet diplomacy had undermined everything the Argentine government has tried to achieve.
Nothing has changed and nothing will change. ( I made this point after a long debate about the Falklands with an Argentine just last week. They paused, considered the point, and then said, “You make me feel very angry!” : ) )
15# do you know why? because the UK is issuing permits for fishing in disputed territory, the agreement was for the survival of the islanders to trade with these resources...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Tron. Persecuting 3000 islanders is so macho. I see a new air link is on its way. You and your mentally unstable leader are powerless.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will simply carry on and there is bugger all you can do about it.
as a Galtieri, he drank too much, kakakaka!
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 019 Troneas
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0as per the Constitution
this is irrelivent,
did not CFK alter this, and added the falklands bit,
is this not true,,
or are you telling me, that im wrong,
and this has allways been part of your constitution .
@22
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This isnt disputed territory as far as the Fi are concerned. It is in the imagination of the RG government. The islanders can do what they want with their natural resources and to be honest there is absolutely nothing that you can do about it.
The FI issue the permits not the UK govt.
26# i told you, if you are right then why the UN keeps saying the only solution is bilateral negociations between argentina and the UK? Why the UN doesnt recognize them?
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 023 Beef Is not the islanders Argentina is going after...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As many as 15 US and UK banks were warned they face criminal and civil action in the Argentine courts in letters sent in recent days”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9179353/Argentine-intimidation-of-Falklands-oil-explorers-is-illegal-says-British-government.html
@23. You didn't understand the point - which is in the same line as THE CESTRIAN'S.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina considers the people born on the islands Argentineans. Perhaps not everybody but thats the official position. They are born in Argentinean soil.
The main problem here is the British presence and the British influence in military, trade and foreign affairs. More than Argentina would like, at least.
Argentines don't want the islanders to go anywhere, nor change their way of life. What they do want is for the British to go home - their oil companies, their military and the Queen's puppet that is now Governor.
But every time any dispute takes place. along comes Cameron talking about “defending British interests” and his defense minister talking about military strategies, all whilst the islanders echo what Cameron is saying from London.
And then you want to lecture about “self-determination” and expect people here to take you seriously?
23# poor boy, thats the consecuences of watching too much TV
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina considers the people born on the islands Argentineans. Perhaps not everybody but thats the official position. They are born in Argentinean soil”.
WTF.
So the people on the islands are your own people and you refuse to talk to them? What sort of ludicrous position is that?
Talk to them and see what they have to say to you.
31# they are recognized as borned in argentine territory not as argentinians...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and we dont have to talk to them, we have to negociate with the UK because thats what the UN told both countries to do...islanders are not a litigant party of this dispute
@32
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the UN has it wrong. the UK should be telling the Un that this discussion begins and ends with the FIG and you RG's talking.
This has been said often enough by the Uk for everyone to take the hint.
why are you trying to have negotiations with the UK? what for, because it'll make you feel good talking to a major world power and you'll look shit talking to the government of 3k people?
thats what this is all about really, as usual, the Rg's looking good.
you have been told time and time again by the UK - the discussion will be had with the Uk if the FI wish it. Talk to the FIG first and then come to us.
It really is pretty simple.
the UK told that to the UN, there was a debate between argentina the UK and the UN in 1965 and the UN made the UN resolution 2065...which means bilateral negociations...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 029 Troneas
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is it ok then,, if the islanders concider all people born on the main land, british,
that seems to be what you are implying, but in reverse is it not .
35# there is no falkland islands...it is a bilateral dispute between argentina and the UK...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you should read the UN charter and the UN resolutions...it will be better...
@31. Duh. On paper, they are Argentinean. Anyone born in Malvinas has the right to claim the Argentinean passport. So ends theory.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Practically, Argentina - and the UN understands, they are subject to the decisions from London and the puppet Governor put in place by the Queen.
But Argentina DOES want to talk. Why do you think they are asking for negotiations to take place for over a century. But alas, only London can unlock the talks as of right now. And they have failed to do so despite UN resolutions.
Those who refuse to talk are the islanders. I am sure much good could come out of said negotiations. But national sovereignty cannot be discussed - only the points on how administration would continue under an Argentine rule.
For instance, I believe it would be wrong to consider the Malvinas as part of Tierra del Fuego province - as they currently are. They should be their own province with greater autonomy, and include the other south atlantic islands as well.
And trust me, if any current governor of any province in Argentina had the idea of negotiating sovereignty with the central government the national government wouldn't listen to him either. He would be locked up as a traitor instead.
@36
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no its not a bilateral dispute between anyone but you.
go and tell the UN that you wish to talk to the FIG first.
there is absolutely nothing stopping you. Until you do this no one will talk to you. the UK has made its position clear - they will only talk to the RG's about sovereignty if the FIG wish them top. It therefore stands plain as day that you need to ask the FIG if they will talk about sovereignty.
If you are so desperate for the islands then you will surely do anything to make it happen. Or are you not really bothered?
Basically you tell everyone that the people on the islands are Argentine, held at the point of a gun and yet you dont want to talk to your own people?
absolute fucking madness.
38# the UN said the solution was bilateral dispute between argentina and the UK...we dont made the rules, the UN told both countries the same...you are saying we have to violate the UN resolutions and we cannot do it...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@37 I cannot believe the horse sh1te that you typed.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN is aware of how Constitutional Monarchies work, and most of it's best most stable members and sponsors are constitutional monarchies.
Argentina does not want to talk, Nestor walked out of talks. The FIG locked the talks because they don't want to be involved in transference of their sovereignty to a third power. Why would anyone? UN resolutions do not talk about colonisation or annexation of self-governing territories, neither does the UN Charter.
Argentine rule is never going to happen. No one would enter into negotiations based upon this. What is Argentina bringing to the negotiations?
Discussing how the annexation of the 'malvinas' would work is just a waste of time. It will never happen.
It goes against the constitution for Argentinians to negotiate sovereignty over the 'Malvinas'. Your demands are absolute and go against the UN charter. So there will be no negotiations.
Get over it, furkface.
39 Searinox
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0even if it was done your way
the british have stated, nothing to talk about.
full stop
@39
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you dont want to talk to the FIG do you? We all know what you want to do. you want to look good in front of the world by alking to the UK. I have told you that you can easily go to the UN and ask to speak with the FIG, but you wont do it will you? It would hurt your pride.
@37
“Duh. On paper, they are Argentinean. Anyone born in Malvinas has the right to claim the Argentinean passport. So ends theory”.
so now we know the truth. It is a complete myth that the people on the islands are Argentine and are held at the point of a gun. you know that they are British.
“Practically, Argentina - and the UN understands, they are subject to the decisions from London and the puppet Governor put in place by the Queen”.
you have been told by the Uk that “practically” until the FIG say that they wish to talk about sovereignty it has nothing to do with the UK. the starting point is the FIG.
“But Argentina DOES want to talk. Why do you think they are asking for negotiations to take place for over a century. But alas, only London can unlock the talks as of right now. And they have failed to do so despite UN resolutions”.
London has told you that it does not hold the key to unlock the talks. The FIG does.
“Those who refuse to talk are the islanders. I am sure much good could come out of said negotiations. But national sovereignty cannot be discussed - only the points on how administration would continue under an Argentine rule”.
the islanders have never refused to talk to you and you know that.
“For instance, I believe it would be wrong to consider the Malvinas as part of Tierra del Fuego province - as they currently are. They should be their own province with greater autonomy, and include the other south atlantic islands as well”.
There is no such place as Malvinas and Terra Del Fuego has nothing to do with this discussion except in your own imagination.
Wake up.
40# the UN charter says every nation have to respect territorial integrity and it was vioalted by the UK in 1833, and the UK didnt ask for self determination to the argentinians who were living in the islands in that time...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the UN resolutions are based on the UN chart moron, you should know that, and the UN resolutions says the only solution is bilateral negociations between argentina and the UK...
deal with it
43 Searinox
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0dont be so very silly
1833 is irrelivent, and you know it,
but if you insist on living in the past, then go back to spain .
@43
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the UN charter says that everyone has the right to self determination - a charter that Argentina has signed up to.
It was never violated in the 1830's except by you RG's. you have created a myth. you signed away your rights in 1850.
change the shape of the UN resolution by asking it to refer to the FIG. you wont because you know what the FIG will say in front of the UN - it wants nothing to do with you. you'll be completely embarrassed in front of the whole world and you will be a complete laughing stock as you are on the verge of being now.
You want nothing to do with the Un charter of self determination because it does not suit you which is extremely odd given that the population is supposedly Argentine and is being held at the point of a gun.
The Uk has told you that any discussion regarding sovereignty starts and ends with the FIG - “deal with it”.
If the FIG say that they wish the Uk to talk with you about sovereignty then we have said that we will. Seems pretty straight forward what you have to do - speak with the FIG.
like we said
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you never listen, do you .
44# there is something called territorial integrity, you should read about it...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 043# the UN resolutions are based on the UN charter, and says the only solutions is bilateral negociations between argentina and the UK, no islanders...
if we sign away our rights in 1850 then why doesnt the UK shows it in the UN?
the islanders ahve no voice in this conflict to the UN...Un resolution 2065...(bilateral dispute between argentina and the UK)
if the UK do not negociate then we well santion the UK and we will call Unasur to do the same as we did banning the“falkland flag” and you will have to deal with it...
46# like i said, you should read the UN charter and resolutions...
Troneas, you Argentines claim to want to talk, but your constitution only allows for full Argentine sovereignty. Therefore, there will be no talks because your constitution doesn't actually allow for any negotiations to take place... I sense a stumbling block here. All your constitution allows you to do is make demands - demands which until the islanders request otherwise will be ignored. Sorry, but it's your fault really.
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 048# because the UK cannot argue sovereignty being 14000 miles of distance...
Apr 03rd, 2012 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0tell you what...in June CFK will go to the C-24 and as every year the UK and the islanders will put thei point of view...
So after that i will came to this forum again and you'll see AGAIN how the UN doenst recognize the self determination...ok?
@49 What does 14'000km distance have anything to do with anything? Norway has islands in the South Atlantic and is further away than the UK is to the Falklands. Are you suggesting countries and the UN choose sovereignty based upon proximity and then force smaller countries to be in their territory?
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The C24 is the DECOLONISATION COMMITTEE. Do you know what decolonisation means? It means turning them into independent self-governing states. It doesn't mean getting a despotic kakistocracy to annex them.
@47
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“if the UK do not negociate then we well santion the UK and we will call Unasur to do the same”...
no one will do that you complete buffoon.
not only that but if you put economic sanctions on the Uk then you will be in breach of your WTO obligations, but then again that would come as no fucking surprise at all and be yet another treaty/obligation that you refuse to abide by.
honestly you can pick holes in your infantile points at will.
“because the UK cannot argue sovereignty being 14000 miles of distance”...
WTF does that have to do with it man. Are you for real? So the whole world needs to redraw the Geo political map of planet earth to suit you RG's. Laughable.
I'm off to bed. This is now not worth discussing with this complete clown. Night fellow Brits.
Letter: “Argentines should thank the British”: https://picasaweb.google.com/115457644230024502798/GeneralPhotos#5727332747323189810
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Letter refers to article published on 1 April, “30 years later, Falklands war still resonates”: https://picasaweb.google.com/115457644230024502798/GeneralPhotos#5727332747323189810
I love how Argies always resort to the proximity argument, just because they feel it's close to them, that they should have it. It's like a crooked man stood in a car-park saying that he wants to car next to him because it's close, then breaking into the car, and getting shot. But then still saying the car is his after getting shot, and then phoning the police to say he wants the car.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like, these argtards are hilarious.
What i find most interesting is the Argentine rhetoric on this article and the complete dismissal for their fellow Argentine and his view who is one of Argentina’s top political analysts and journalists yet recently the Argentine trolls had seen fit to champion the views of foreign unqualified egotistic musicians and actors with little or no knowledge of the Falklands and its people.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0its clear that they cannot even accept the views of an Argentine professor of political law, then there is no conflicting view that would be acceptable other than their own Expansionist backward logic
How pathetic this article from “the squatters penguin news” and Merdpress!
Apr 04th, 2012 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quoting some rightist journalist who was the main voice of the dictatorship at the time.
When are we going to see here articles published by kelpers living in Argentina? They also write, but never appear here. Oh I forgot, the adverts of Malvinas House Hotel and others kelpers investors in the kelperkistán propaganda site.
'When are we going to see here articles published by kelpers living in Argentina? They also write, but never appear here.'
Apr 04th, 2012 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt you can supply links.
Falkland islanders moving to Argentina benefits both communities by raising the average intelligence of both communities.
Mariano Grondona, defender of military junta horrors. This is something that this article doesn't say...
Apr 04th, 2012 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0If these are the type of characters defending the ideas of the british crown... poor islanders...
Does he know that the islands officially belong to her Magesty the Queen according to the British Government??
He doesn't know what to do to go against CFK already... desperately giving the right-wingers governing in London the lies they need to hear and reproduce from an Argentine journalist, to give the idea of an Argentine divided public opinion while nobody in Argentina and Latinamerica supports what this man is saying.
Argentine political commentator in amazing 'Argentine man actually makes perfect sense' shocker.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine fascists in totally predictable 'make all sorts of banal noises in an attempt to discredit sensible Argentine political commentator' non-shocker.
57 And the Reichmistress is now using the war dead to score points in this debate...shame on you
Apr 04th, 2012 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0As previously stated RG's pulled out of oil agreement and fisheries, because it doesnt pay for them to live in peace. As with the Nazi's you always have to have a Nemisis to enrage the masses, with the Germans it was the Jews, with Reichmistress and the Kircher youth its Falkland Islanders and the UK, Good luck...by the way HMS Dauntless is coming to see you, leaving today:)
You could try to invade again except you cant .
Apr 04th, 2012 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can only whine.
Falklanders didnt want anything to do with you when the British were trying to off load them.
Cant see that changing anytime soon Not your islands Never been your islands get over it.
They are cold and wet anway
~43
Apr 04th, 2012 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Before you post, gen up on your law. Its a basic principle that you assess the legal status of an act by the law as it was at the time of that act. The UN charter was most certainly NOT in existance in 1833, so can have no bearing at all on the events of that year.
#29 “Argentina considers the people born on the islands Argentineans. Perhaps not everybody but thats the official position. They are born in Argentinean soil.”
Apr 04th, 2012 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0BS, Argentina regular states that Falklanders are an illegal implanted population with no right to determine their own future.,
#29
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina may consider Falkland Islanders to be Argentine but the people of the Falklands don't.
You say that the main problem is the British influence and military presence but if it wasn't for Argentine agression there would be no need for a British military presence. If it wasn't for Argentina the Falklands could become an independent country instead of a British Protectorate, protectorate is the key word here, they are there to protect the Falkland Islands from Argentina. I am sure that the British government would be happy not to be paying 60 million a year to protect the Islands. Argentina allows the Falklands their basic human right of self determination and Britian will leave the area.
@Searinox
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 043#
I fail to see how the UN's provisions on respecting territorial integrity can be applied to the Falklands dispute. Britain has maintained effective sovereignty over the islands since the mid 18th century, and the only occassions when Britains sovereignty over the Falkland Islands effected Argentina in any real sense where the retaking of the Islands in 1833 (after an illegal annexation) and again in 1982 (after an illegal annexation/invasion). On both occassions, the mainland Argentine frontier was located 1500 miles and 300 miles away respectively. France has more leave to cry 'territorial integrity' with respect to the Channel Islands and Great Britian itself!
No, the UK did not consult the handful of colonists present in 1833 about the right to self-determination. Such would have been odd, given that no such concept existed in international law at the time. In any case, the civilian colonists (most of whom where European, not Argentine) were permited and encouraged to remain (most did, which speaks to their opinion of British sovereignty).
#47
The UN general assembly resolutions are often based on intense diplomatic lobbying and for that reason general assembly resolutions are only advisory! What's more, the notion that the Falkland Islanders don't get a say violates the principals outlines under resolution 2625 (which unlike resolution 2065, wasn't rendered void by the cutting off of negotiations by one party, Argentina, and the subsequent invasion).
I'm sure the UK would love to disprove the Argentine claim in court (and the 1850 treaty would no doubtv feature), but Argentina doesn't recognise any honest broker other than its (dishonest) self and disregards the International Court of Justice.
I am a Falkland Islander, not an artificial implant, not a squid millionaire, live in the Falkland Islands full time and have no second home over seas.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@4 The Cestrian
The Falklands are not isolationist, we have excellent commercial and social relationships with Chile, Uruguay and Brazil and are doing everything we can to maintain this despite the efforts of Argentina to prevent it.
We had a hydrcarbons agreement with Argentina that would have benefited both countries but they ditched it.
We are afully functioning economically viable country in this region. We don't want to be harrassed by Argentina as has been the case over the past 30 years.
@32 Searinox
If your problem is with UK and not with us non-people, why is Argentina not imposing its punishments on UK mainland and not on us? Is it that we are an easier target?
@12 MurkyThink
I can't understand this Argentine obsession with our Governor. He doesn't control the country -we have a democratically elected government for that - but he does play an important role in our relationship with the UK and in our cultural life. We like our Governor so mind your own business.
Friendly Argentines are welcome in the Falkland Islands any time and we receive many tourists from Argentina. Government officials are not permitted to visit by the Argentine government as our stamp in their passport would constitute recognition of the Falklands as a separate state.
@1 Prick!
Apr 04th, 2012 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Why?
@6 So? It appears that he subsequently visited the Islands, saw the situation was not what he thought and changed his mind. The article is pretty clear about that. What's your problem?
@12 Wrong!!
@13 Honest?
@19 Tough! YOU invaded. YOU started a war. YOU mistreated the Islanders and their property. And now you want to be accepted on your terms. Grow up! The way for argieland to approach the Falkland Islanders is to grovel on its belly and eat sh*te for about 50+ years. And take those bodies back. And pay for everything the Islanders want.
@20 Followed by “The kelpers smiling ironically denying with their heads. It caused much unrest in the political circles the fact had not invited to the table of Buenos Aires to any political leader soaked in the subject. In fact, the Chancellor Guido Di Tella died by sit to discuss or seduce the kelpers satellite.” Look at that, “soaked”, “Chancellor Guido Di Tella died” (unfortunately not), “seduce the kelpers satellite.” Seems argies couldn't manage any propaganda.
@22 No, it's not.
@27 Two reasons. You're there and they're prats. They think you're honest.
@29 Then you're prats. People born on the Islands consider themselves British. Start by accepting that. Officially. Argieland has no current role except belligerent aggressor. Back off!
@30, 32 It's not argie soil. Or rock. Or water. Get used to it!!
@34 No negotiations with thieves.
@37 On whose paper? Not FI paper. Not UK paper. Therefore, argieland = 40,117,096; UK+FI =62,265,140. You're outvoted!
@39 Why not? You usually do!
@43 No, it wasn't, dimwit. No legislation is retrospective.
@47 “Territorial integrity” is irrelevant in the case of a rebel colony. UN GA resolutions are irrelevant. You are irrelevant.
@49 The UK does not attend the dysfunctional C-24. I believe that FIG only attends to demonstrate how demented argieland is.
@Troneas you wrote:
Apr 04th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> Argentina considers the people born on the islands Argentineans.
> (...)
(...)
> Those who refuse to talk are the islanders. I am sure much good could come
> out of said negotiations. But national sovereignty cannot be discussed -
> only the points on how administration would continue under an Argentine rule.
@Searinox you wrote:
> there is something called territorial integrity
(...)
> the UK cannot argue sovereignty being 14000 miles of distance
I like Argentinians. The ones I know over here (Germany) impress me as hard-working, reliable people. My father worked in Argentina occasionally and made good friends; my parents-in-law visited your country several times and but for some rare exceptions met welcoming people.
I recall sitting in in front of the TV when the images after the Argentinians' invasion were broadcast. Two things stuck in my mind: the thousands in Plaza del Mayo cheering the invasion and the sad look on my father's face. Having been a young conscript in another war, he had to see the people he was so fond of displaying themselves as something he knew too well. Me, I cannot fathom how you could then have regarded it as reasonable, let alone justified, to force the people on those islands at gunpoint to become your countrymen; how can you today not regard the death of 649 and the maiming of 1068 your *actual* countrymen as but an unjustifiable crime by your government, and your cheering then as a tragedy? Instead, stripped of all the niceties, this is what the world hears from Argentinians: “It is not important what other people think or wish. If we claim their homes as belonging to our country and them to be Argentinians, they must not feel safe until they submit.”
Please, use this anniversary to improve the impression the world is getting of you. Please extend a hand of friendship to the people on those islands, who want nothing but peacefully stay what they are: your British neighbours.
@Searinox
Apr 04th, 2012 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 049#
You seem to be confusing the C24 with the UN. The prior is an incredibly biased, and heavily lobbied group of mostly former colonies (with chips on the shoulder) who's dictates border on the absurd. Their various pronouncements and resolutions are not binding, and are most certainly NOT UN resolutions in any sense.
C24 is far more concerned with the label 'colonism' than the meanig of the word. If there were, then they're recognise that in the majority (possibly) of the remaining 'colonies' the principal reason for continued association with the 'colonial powers' is self-interest and/or self-determination. Many of these 'colonies' (such as Pitcairn Islands) are far too small to fend for themselves, and are as a result more than happy to remain dependencies (not colonies) of their respective governing powers.
All of the UKs remaining dependencies are, to the best of my knowledge, free to arrange referendums on independence, and recent history has shown that the UK is more than ready to give up the burden of subsidising these dependent territories (many of which are tax havens whose finance industries sap the coffers of many a government, including the UK and many third-world nations, of tax revenue), but also more than willing to continue the tradition of defending and protecting these dependent territories as needed/desired.
Given these realities, C24 is a out of date talking shop. Geared more towards revenge and mindless acts of supernational patronage/solidarity (particularly prevalent in South America) than towards the best interests (and clearly) the rights of any 'colonised' peoples. It's had its day, and it's incapable of achieving anything (much like the security council, itself an absurdity in the modern age)
I find it interesting and amusing that the Argentinos keep harping on UN resolutions.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN resolution 502 dated April 3 1982 demanded a complete withdrawal of Argentine forces from the Falkland Islands.
A simple Yes or No question to the Argentinos writing on this board: Did Argentina abide by resolution 502?
If Argentina does not follow UN resolutions, why should the UK respect a resolution to commence bilateral negociations?
The UK offered to take the dispute over the Falkland Islands to mediation at the International Court of Justice in The Hague in 1947 and 1948, and did so unilaterally in 1955. On the two first occasions Argentina declined mediation, in 1955 Argentina simply refused to abide by any ruling of the International Court.
Can Argentina be trusted?
The socalled 'Beagle conflict' over the islands Picton, Lennox and Nueva began in 1904 when Argentine suddenly claimed the three islands, which have always been under Chilean control.
In 1971 Chile and Argentina signed an agreement, which submitted the Beagle Channel issue to *** binding arbitration *** by the International Court of Justice at The Hague. The five judges were selected by Chile and Argentina. The court ruled that the islands belonged to Chile.
Although Argentina previously had accepted that the arbitration was binding, Argentina rejected the ruling, and attempted to use military force to challenge Chilean ownership.
The proof is in the pudding.
Please join -
Apr 04th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep the Falklands British -
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-the-Falklands-British/123151384435619?sk=wall&filter=1
Why Oh why? do we keep bringing up the UN. It's a toothless tiger, something is only ever done when the security council votes on it, then more often than not the national interests of two of it's members, usually stop just resolutions dead in their tracks, Syria, a prime example. Resolution this, resolution that, most of which are never followed. UN. totally useless.
Apr 04th, 2012 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 065 honoria and 67 jpj
Apr 04th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A pleasure to read your carefully reasoned observations –a welcome change from the customary semiliterate, ill-considered, abuse ridden comments, one usually sees here.
But we Brits hardly have an exemplary recent past. Remember Diego García (in the Indian Ocean) In 1970, its inhabitants were FORCIBLY DEPORTED by a LABOUR GOVT to Mauritius –where they still live in poverty-stricken slums– so that their homeland could be leased to the US as an airbase!
More here: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/dg.html
IT’S ALL ABOUT THE BIG BOYS’ MONEY AND POWER!
I’m afraid that shortly, we’ll see our present geopolitical disputes for what they truly are: “MINOR AND MERELY ACADEMIC”. For in 2018, China (a place I once knew quite well) is set to overhaul the US and become the world’s greatest economic power. Then –as the competition for natural resources intensifies– the excrement will really start hitting the fan, HARD!
Having been born just after the onset of the last “great depression”, I fear I’ve seen it all before – a sad prelude featuring lots of “minor” disputes and wars; inexorably culminating in horrific global conflagration, (infinitely worse than WWII) in which, the mineral rich S. American States may lose many lives. Hope I’m wrong!
Jim, in Madrid.
Grondona isn't even Argentine, with his white skin and his lies we can pretty much be sure he is European, as a matter of fact Grondona isn't even patriotic he is a pirate on UK's payroll, there is a job for the malvinistas, getbrid of the Grondona clown and his family of crooks.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Pirat-Hunter [sic]
Apr 05th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#73
And you by your own countrymen's admission (see above), this Gordona fellow was a supporter of the Junta's decision to invade the Falkland Islands in 1982. So which is it? Is he a patriotic (or rather jingoistic) Argentinian (or rather blind follower), or is he a 'dirty filthy' European?
Also, why on Earth would the UK (or the FIG) pay an Argentine politician/analyst to show an even handed view of the issue? From their point of view, they're sitting pretty; they have effective sovereignty over the Islands and the best efforts of a whinging Argentine diplomatic corp have failed to make any effective inroads. No need for the UK to waste their money, me thinks!
It's all very well accusing anyone you disagree with of being 'dirty' (though it's a clear sign that your own position is a rather weak one) but if you continue down the rather racist path of declaring anyone who doesn't share your own particular political opinions of being a 'European' you'll quickly find yourself a stranger in your own land. You attitude, @Pirat-Hunter [sic], comes straight of the the fascist/totalitarian playbook - declare any decident voice an 'other', slur them with unfounded allegations and hope and pray that any ingrained cultural tendency towards xenophobia will do away with the problem.
Please join and press the LIKE button, we would like to expand to over 20,000 members on all three lists...
Apr 07th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Keep the Falklands British -
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2. Falklands Forever British
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Join the growing cause to protect the Falklands from Argentine aggression!
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