MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Jimmy Burns updated edition of how Argentina lost the Falklands war
On the 30th anniversary of the invasion of the Falkland Islands Jimmy Burns launches an updated edition of “The Land that lost its Heroes” , How Argentina lost the Falklands war, which draws on unique access to military, diplomatic and intelligence sources in Argetina, the US and the UK plus other key players. Read full article
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Apr 04th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like America and the Americans but the revelations of Alexander Haig's 'chummyness' with Galtieri and his dictatorship and his crude jokes about the 'sheepxxxxxxx' Falklanders don't surprise me.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0At the end of it this shows that America looks after itself and disregards even its closest allies.Perhaps the Israelis have got it right.Look after yourself. Britain (Cameron)should do less grovelling to Obama and the US.
Maybe a Romney presidency will be different as the recent US visitor might have implied .I wouldn't count on it though.
@2. “We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual...”
Apr 05th, 2012 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder where the Americans got that from....
@ 3 Troneas
Apr 05th, 2012 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have followed your posts and I can see you are a reasonable free thinking Argentine as I think I am a reasonable freethinking Briton. I think the largest part of the western world's governance is based on rationality which came about after the 'age of reason'.
Some parts of the world are still cloaked in 'the age of darkness' as Europe was for many centuries after the collapse of Rome. Parts of the Middle East and North Africa spring to mind.
History has a habit of springing surprises out of nowhere and going in a different direction from that expected.
At the moment the worlds historians and futurologists are expecting China to displace the USA ,just as the USA displaced Britain in 1942(or thereabouts).
An alternative view is that the US tries to sustain and bolster its weakening position around the world by linking up with its natural partners and allies around the world ; primarily what has been termed the 'Anglosphere' but also democratic Europe and other like minded countries in Latam,Africa and Asia.
How powerful this gets I do not know. But I do know that the 'kings of the heap' do not give up there 1st place without a fight.
One of the imponderables is the 'Hispanic' factor. As far as I can make out a large part of Argentina's quarrel with Britain is a one sided continuation of the Anglo-Spanish struggle which dominated the European world before the Anglo-French struggle displaced it 3 centuries ago.
Bearing in mind the internal struggle in the US which is developing between the Anglos (who are not going to give up their predominant political and economic position easily) and the Hispanics, the future might have a turbulent outlook .
Argentina should by history and ethnicity be lined up in the rational camp but it seems to have taken a wrong turning with its antiquated peronist nazi view of things and is acting very irrationally;not just with the Falklands.
@4. What confuses me is the labeling of the Western culture as “rational”. As opposed to? Irrational? Emotional? Religious?
Apr 05th, 2012 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Beginning in the renaissance, followed by the discovery of the new world and then in the industrial revolution had ideas floating all over the place. Masonic and other scientific contemplations developed alongside the ideas of freedom, democracy and so on. Some began in England, others were nurtured by the people in the new world which echoed back to Europe (i.e.: The French Revolution).
There is no doubt in my mind that America particularly has made top priority issue to spread and embed its culture and ideals to the world as a means of extending its influence. Perhaps not even on purpose. It is part of who they are.
The Chinese, on the other hand - try to blend with the others as much as possible. They do things quietly and without fuss. They are not interested at all in cultural domination nor to spread their values. Is this rational? I don't know. I think its cultural - but it certainly breaks with the American approach of only feeling at ease with those who share their values.
The struggle with Argentina and Britan, in my view, has nothing to do with Spain. It probably goes back to the two British invasions of Buenos Aires, the anti-colonialst sentiment in the Americas and a general dislike for “imperialistic” powers (blame that on the re-re-re-interpretations of the Monroe doctrine by the Americans as time went on).
If we go back to roots, the Liberators talked about a united Latin America. The historically indifferent treatment Latam has received by the US (bar Roosevelt) would culturally and emotionally link Argentina with Latam and Spain. In fact, Argentina - as well as Chile - had tighter links with the UK than the US until early 20th century. Of course, the Malvinas war and continuous disagreements eroded that relationship.
No war has ever took place between two democracies. The “fight” will be economical and political.
The difficulty you have - I think - is to find “rationality” in behavior that is not “westernized”. Perhaps in behavior that is not in line with neoliberalist ideals, free trade, strong democratic institutions, and general predictability.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The current protectionist approach is not just taking place in Argentina. Its happening world wide. The reasons are many and far between. Talking about Argentina specifically, I would like to point out two points: the first one is the shock the country took during the devastating crisis in 2001. It cannot be underestimated how a country which had enjoyed respectable wealth suffered so much.
In the end, it was blamed on the neoliberal ideals preached by Washington which Argentina followed like a dutiful student throughout the 90s. Privatization galore, increasing debt, an increasing gap between the rich and the poor, no government aid, subsidies, or social projects. Education suffered the most as private schools became the norm in a country that had historically been proud of its state run educational system.
So it was to be expected that, after that shock, someone came to put a stop to it. People were hungry for the “good old” Peronist ideas of a social state, more jobs, education, and so on. (I am not a Peronist)
The heavy subsidies that came (made possible by a huge surplus in Argentina's balance sheet) topped with an increase in price of commodities and exports to Chine and Brasil - as well as a now devalued and competitive Peso, brought unparalleled growth, jobs and stability. It also brought inflation, but that is a different story for another day perhaps.
And the second thing is that Argentina's political maturity leaves a lot to be desired. The presidential system in many Latam countries allow for one person to concentrate a lot of power. It will have to change, but it still dependent on the skills, maturity and aptitude of one person for the system to succeed or not.
Personally, I wish we had the kind of leadership Brazil or Chile has that seem to have a vision beyond tomorrow and thus be able to create long-term projects for their countries.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has had a bumpy road since the return of democracy where its political figures cannot but patch problems on a daily basis without a proper plan for the future; and every time a new president comes to office they take a U-turn and start anew with their own little agenda.
That is not to say, however, that I would just dismiss everything this government has done. I believe there are positive aspects and of course there are some things I do not agree with.
A perfect example is the import tax. It has created a problem for Argentina in the WTO when other countries are subsidizing their industries. THAT is what Argentina should be doing instead. Not just because subsidizing means not getting hit in the head by the WTO, but because proper subsidizing has a better chance of actually encouraging local industry to flourish than just blocking imports. For instance, conditional subsidies based upon reaching efficiency targets.
The problem is that, in Argentina, an import tax is easy to implement. The economy minister signs off a sheet, sends it to customs and thats that.
Subsidies require congress approval. This can take months to get off the ground, plus favors, bureaucracy... you name it...
So what can the government do? Blame those countries that accuse Argentina in the WTO that they are protecting the industry as well and are all being hypocrites. Which is 100% right. But Argentina could be doing likewise if not for the inefficiency of the system.
Hello
Apr 05th, 2012 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0It’s interesting you should mention China –a prodigiously overpopulated country with 296 different languages and an enormous, exponentially increasing number of souls, all in need of food and hydrocarbons.
Contrary to popular Western belief, the Chinese don’t all look alike. Nor do the many regional groups always get along with each other terribly well.
In reality, the Chinese and the so-called ‘Western’ societies are virtually mirror images of each other. So if China eventually becomes what we understand to be a democracy, just about anything could happen.
Within China itself and its Asian environs, we could even see the outbreak of interregional disputes of the kind with which we in the West are unfortunately, so intimately familiar.
Furthermore, the ramifications of such “Chinese troubles” could rapidly reach nearby Russia and thenceforth entangle the whole industrialized world.
If that day dawns, I suspect that Western political expediency will dictate that the Falklands / Malvinas dispute be put on the backburner.
Jim, in Madrid.
@8 China doesn't have 296 different languages. It only has 56 ethnic groups and the Han Chinese speak dialects of the same language, mandarin.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0The rest of it made sense though. Maybe the only place left in the world will the the people's of these proto-states.
Just saying.
How Argentina lost the war ??????
Apr 05th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here is the .....a intelligence source...
[ The Russian ships and aircrafts monitored the British Task Force as it sailed south...however the Russians evidently collected intelligence for their own using did not share with Argentina....
But the Russians offered arms it return it expected support in the UN on such issues as US witdrawals from Centrall America ,,a price is considered -- too high-- by the Argentines. the only Russian equipment Argentina received during the crisis was a scrambler for the Argentina Foreign Minister while in Russia...
Toward the end the Russians had an unintended influance on American actions when the 1982 crisis term...........]
The diplomatic and trade offensive against the UK mentioned by Jimmy Burns in his book was launched by CFK simply to dupe the dupable Argentinian people away from their current economic woes. Inflation currently running at 20-25% (unofficial) 10% (official). Who do you believe. The history of the Falkand Islands - who do you believe? Just think my Argentine friends. Think. Try and adopt an independent thought process.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine forces were doomed from the day they launched their invasion. Galtieri wrongly assumed that Britain would just shout and complain at the UN, and that Argentina would simply ignore any UN resolution as it always does. Imagine their surprise when Britain fought back. Even if they'd successfully fought off the first task force, a war of attrition, complete collapse of what remained of the Argentine economy, political isolation, international sanctions and relentless bombardment of Argentine military facilities would have followed. The junta was doomed and would have had to retreat and surrender. The only worry would have been the fate of the Falkland Islanders held hostage by the increasingly desperate Argentine military isolated and besieged on the islands.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And just what did you all expect from Argentina, a repeat performance of course.......for your viewing pleasure:
Apr 05th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTBAjfgHLyk&feature=relmfu
www.youtube.com/watch?v=azwWSN2pukk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSvQw00SV-c
www.ripoffreport.com/government-worker/argentina-tourists-m/argentina-tourists-murdered-l-33f51.htm
www.ripoffreport.com/federal-government/cristina-kirchner/cristina-kirchner-cristina-kir-dc9b0.htm
Gracias Cristina y Nestor!!
Argentine's never had the fakland island company because it's a British pirate company who thefted the cattles ranch left by luis vernet back in 1822, we have no issue with brits self determination in UK, we just wonder why UK doesn't allow their people to have self determination in UK, in
Apr 05th, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina all this illegal aliens have no rights, and this is the real reason we can't have british illegal aliens draw a line anywhere they please. If they do get Malvinas Argentina I want a part of my country for myself as well and I will take it from the brits if they ever get the Islas Malvinas Argentina we will rob them anywhere they set up shop, as of today we Argentine's have the right to take any british owned property, until the UK deside to respect international laws..
Hello,
Apr 05th, 2012 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 09 GreekYoghurt (#)
Thanks for:
@8 China doesn't have 296 different languages. It only has 56 ethnic groups and the Han Chinese speak dialects of the same language, mandarin.
Perhaps my geriatric memory is starting to falter but I recall that such WAS so, when I lived in China.
Mandarin (an English word derived from the Portuguese term for a minor official who “gives orders”) is just one of the many DISCREET regional languages which aurally, are mutually unintelligible between their respective users. It’s true that the ideographs of WRITTEN Chinese are universally understood by all Han (Mandarin for people) in the same way that the Arabic numerals –1,2,3,4,5.....– are used in the West but pronounced differently, according to the phonetic rules of the speaker’s tongue –if I said OCHENTA to you, would understand it as 80?
It’s also true that the Chinese “alphabet’s” characters have been simplified and reduced in number, by “official decree”. And, that the Beijing Govt is TRYING to impose Mandarin upon ALL citizens. But that trick has already failed in many parts of Europe. For instance, the London Govt was compelled to desist in its protracted efforts to force English on its French, Gaelic and Welsh minorities. Thanks to taxpayer funding, these ethnic languages are now in resurgence. But the resentment of more than a century’s linguistic repression still festers –summat especially true in places such as the Catalán Region of Spain, French Corsica, et al.
Presumably it ain’t impossible for summat similar to occur in China.
Jim.
@15 Hiya Jim.
Apr 05th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess it just comes down to a definition of dialect v.s. language. If I recall, Manchu as an example has a distinct alphabet that is unintelligible to Mongolian writers and speakers. Mandarin shares the character alphabet with it's main competitor Nanjinghua, but essentially they are the same language, just spoken differently. Guangdonghua (Cantonese) to some extent uses the complex and simplified character set, depending if you're in HK or not. Which could be the basis of it being
It's quite possible that China has 296 dialects, but they all rely on the same ideographs, so they are mutually understandable, and only have some separation of usage for things such as 'father', which is similar to English dialects.
I think the reason why they like one language, is because chinese like the word one for everything, one language, one people, one party, one china, one child, one country, ONE system, et cetera.
However, I'm perfectly happy to be wrong about these things.
I live in China, and my chinese wife (from the north) considers as do near all my chinese friends that Shanghaiese is a different language. However it uses the same characters, and as in European languages there are the odd words from Mandarin (putonghua) in the Shanghaiese language.
Apr 06th, 2012 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do agree that there is an arguement for dialect versus language!
as far as I am aware there are 7 identified undisputed languages and another 3 which are disputed. The undisputed languages are mandarin, Wu, Min, Xiang, Hakka, Gan and Yue. The remaining 3 are Jin, Pinghua and Huizhou. Shanghaiese coming under the Wu umbrella.
xiexie
I lived in Hong Kong in the 60's. If China continues to change the way it has since then, then I'v no doubt that in the next 50 years it will displace the US as the worlds number 1 power.Both ecenomicaly and militarily.
Apr 06th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please join and press the LIKE button, we would like to expand to over 20,000 members on all three lists...
Apr 07th, 2012 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Keep the Falklands British -
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-the-Falklands-British/123151384435619?sk=wall&filter=1
2. Falklands Forever British
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-the-Falklands-British/123151384435619?sk=wall&filter=1
3. We Will Never Surrender the Falklands
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keep-the-Falklands-British/123151384435619?sk=wall&filter=1
Join the growing cause to protect the Falklands from Argentine aggression!
With a name like Hunter, that suggests that there is a bit of Scottish blood in your veins, just like the Falkland Islanders.
Apr 08th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One policy that your Government could do to improve the situation, is to start educating their people from birth that what is not yours, is not yours. Rather than telling them that something, that does not belong to them, belongs to them.
Argentina is an immigration country, made up of immigrants, just like Australia. The population on the Falklands are British, and they don't want to be Argentinian. They and their forbears will have been on the Falklands longer than many, and their forbears in Argentina.
16 GreekYoghurt
Apr 08th, 2012 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 017 brit abroad
18 reality check
CHINESE LANGUAGE AND WHATNOT.
Thanks, especially to those who’ve shown a better knowledge of the matters we’ve discussed, than I.
But I fear that between us, we’ve simply skimmed the surface of a profound polemic whose darkest depths will probably, never be fathomed...
As far as I know, all European tongues have their origin in the Proto-Indo-European language –I don’t think anyone has succeeded in peering farther into the mists of time?
It’s a mystery rather akin to the “Adam and Eve Saga” –a theory which convincingly affirms that ALL Homosapiens descend from the members of a small, black family who lived in Central Africa, some 200.000 years ago. But recently, other anthropologists have started questioning whether the Han Chinese are truely Homosapiens, or not. So –as in all rigorous scientific debate– “You pays your sodding money and you takes your effing pick –and if you don’t agree with ME, you’re a God dammed S.O.B.! (a weak attempt at jocularity, of course)
Seriously, many thanks for your well reasoned and most interesting comments.
Cheers!
Jim.
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