MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
US on YPF takeover: ”Having an open competitive market is a preferable model”
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Argentina will have to justify and assume the responsibilities of its decision regarding the YPF dispute between Argentina and Spain, but at the same time defended models that include competition and market access. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesHaving an open competitive market is a preferable model”
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeahhhh sure; for you.....
Always wondered how many of the turnips babbling about the “Free Market” have actually ever seen the complete EU Customs and Tariffs set of rules?
Last time I saw one in its paper version it was about 28 volumes, about 21,000 pages occupying circa 2.5 lineal meters of shelf space……………..
And the US one is nor smaller…………
Open and competitive market, my left foot!
You'll have to sell your left foot and other organs/body parts to buy food at this rate. Congrats on being such a rabid supporter of such an obvious lunatic *chuckle chuckle*. Now hurry up and flush yourself down the toilet of economic oblivion where you belong.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hillary's words are as serious as the photo that Mercopress decided to put to illustrate the post. :-)
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The neoliberal model is over, you need realize the countries of the Old World and North American system are destroying their populations in terms of culture, education, home economics, health, environment and favors only a handful rich at the price of poorer to others. The market alone can not distribute wealth fairly. It is inconceivable that only 5% of the world population controls 90% of global resources. They are operated by all those who make the wars for oil, the states of these regions are puppets of them do not care about their people, we need a change in a global society.
@ 2 What makes you so angry? REPSOL is not even a Spanish company, calm down lol
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can you spell pariah.. it starts with C and ends with K...
Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I can: P A R I A H.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3 'The neoliberal model is over'
Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is it? Maybe it's over in your corruption ridden backwater of a country, but everywhere else it's doing fine and leading to a far healthier world than we had before. Wealth distribution is worse in a non-neoliberal non-market driven country because you get wealth amassed by the centres of power, just in the same way. Just look at Cuba, China, North Korea, Argentina, Venezuela, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Viet - neolib left on the late 1990s we are now in an economic environment of performativity. Jees, some people have to live in the past!
Apr 17th, 2012 - 07:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, CFKC is dragging her country back to the 70's; it will match the music they play there.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 08:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0South American counties are developing and moving forward with the exception of Venezuela and Argentina. At least there is hope for Venezuela because Chavez will not be around much longer.
Interesting news ...........!
Apr 17th, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting commentators who said staying in London now but has 07--08 GMT time reports.......hesitating to say where they live but have comments in 04..05...06 GMT times (Europe time )....
Keep going CFK ...at least we know where -- how you live...!
@10 How is that relevent? LOL! Paranoid much. I guess it is alien to you to consider 6 or 7:00 am a reasonabe time to get up and read the papers before starting work?
Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know about the 4 or 5 am but if I am up against a deadline I often work through the night.
( 11 )
Apr 17th, 2012 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0I apologize for you .
Can anyone who lives in Argentina or who knows about the subject please explain to me how she's going to pay for this, how is the company going to be valued for payment and how is she going to raise the tens of billions of dollars needed to finance the exploitation of these resources. Furthermore what about the billions needed for refineries, gas stations etc. Please help because I get a head ache everytime I try to analyse this issue.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can see exactly why she has done this. Control of resources is very important and Argentina is still smarting from the privatisation of a number of Argentinean companies (buy this is mean state treasures) in the 90s. YPF is one of these and, when it has been controlled by the government, has been a very successful company so I can see exactly why a number of posters on here are happy about this. Personally I'm not that fussed and I think that this has been on the cards for a number of years now. The only real issue now is that the government will have to take on the obligations of YPF (pension, wage increase negotiation etc) and they will now have to deliver on the investment side. This could be the hardest part as it is very costly and the pressure will be on them to make sure that production shoots up.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0One side effect of all this will be capital flight (once again) and probably higher inflation. The peso is over valued at the moment and people are talking about a 10-15% adjustment in the future. Will this action speed this process up? Who knows? Good luck and we’ll see how it pans out.
@3 - THE NEO LIBERAL MODEL IS OVER!!!
Apr 17th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0North Korea have been saying that for years!
Hello Marcos
THE WOMAN WHO IS CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE HISTORY.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everybody here knows that i support c. f. k's government, but it doesn't mean that there aren't some aspects of her government which i have always rejected, one of them was the bad policy that her husband's government took respecting ypf, the kirchner thought bringing an argentine corporation like petersen group, was going to change the situation, but it was proved that they took a wrong decition, due to oil an gas reserves continued declining, and the state had to spend millions of dollars to import gas and oil, in order to provide of those resorcies to the huge economic expantion.
The decition that c. f. k took yesterday was the best, actually the government should have done it some years before, because we already lost planty of reserves. Now i hope that the congress aproves the project and a new time is going to start for the country.
The nationalization of 51% of ypf's actions is not just a nationalistic decition, like some ignorant people who type here everyday love to argue about it all the time, they dont have any idea about the situation of our reserves , and the wrong the decitions that the governmet took. However they ignore that ex statal companies, which were sold during the 90's won't never do enough inverstments, they only will continue sending remitances to the foreign. That's why it's absolutly necesary the statal internvention, argentina is one of the new nations which doesn't handle a high % of it's oil and gas resorcies. Ypf's privatization is one of the hardest remoras that we still hace since the 90's. Finally, regarding the argument of the so called legal security, we are already used to hear that, but our country continued expanding it's econimic activity, so, we dont care about those insignificant arguments which belong to hipocrites who are one of the responsable for this situation.
What i have always admire from c. f. k, is her bravery, not many politicians do what she did yesterday.
Well there goes their hope of getting a deal to pay off the Paris Club. I bet this is the final straw and EU UK USA will start shutting ARG out of all the Int'l orgs.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If coordinated this could cost them multi Billions a year in revenue. I hope it is worth it in the short term but I don't see how.
What an embarrassment for the country and it's people. Looks like their future is becoming like Bolivia and Venezuela and NO ONE thinks those are models to aspire to....
@17
Apr 17th, 2012 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when they did this in Venezuela oil and gas production fell by 30%. Bearing in mind that RG Land is bankrupt despite having one of the most mineral rich country's in the world tells you of their rank incompetence.
This is a short term measure to keep the wolves at bay. subsidies will continue and the money will be poured down a very large drain, along with corrupt pay offs and financing La Campora.
The woman clearly doesnt know what she is doing and is busy raiding every piggy bank in RG Land - whether or not she owns it or not - to try and keep the country afloat.
Doomed.
I actually (for once) feel sorry for the Argentinians, they have such a terrible history of self-inflicted injuries.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinian economy is on a knife-edge, to the degree that this move is recognised even in Mexico etc as one of desperation, there is a coming economic crash - never mind the fact that this will dramatically affect the perception of the business climate in Argentina (and investment), it also reinforces the perception that Kirchner is heading in the direction of a flailing idiot, appealing to nationalism and blaming everything on the rest of the world, that should remind Argentinians of their previous leaders, who distracted the population from economic collapse at home by appealing to nationalism and xenophobia.
Now they have the world's largest trading bloc to add to their list of opponents, or at least the list of those who feel they are rapidly becoming another defacto dictatorship.
The point is that this is desperation, just as the Falklands “issues” being raised are intended solely to distract from the real problems - what happened to the “unanimous” coalition of support that would apparently force the UK to cede sovereignty of the Falklands? Now the world, even your previous allies (Mexico, Spain) is waking up to the reality of KFC and it will respond accordingly, by isolating Argentina, and in 20 years people will (once again) blame the whole situation on everyone but themselves.
They applauded Peron, they applauded Galtieri, now they applaud Kirchner.
Repeat 10 times and you will understand.
@16 “Not many politicians do what she did yesterday.” You've got that right - they wouldn't be so stupid and short-sighted. She's less politician and more deluded dictator. At least she has her paid sycophants to keep praising her decisions, even as Argentina gets increasingly screwed.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 10
Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably from California....
The writing these things could be from sitting at a restaurant patio overlooking the Pasific Ocean that are seductive and lulled into a comfortable sense that all is well with the world where have professional commentator automatic sentence structures not amateur.
@1 It's called a “Harmonised” customs tariff. Meaning that everyone uses the same one! Divot!
Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 Your spelling is getting worse. Unless it's one of your many doppelgangers. You really must learn to get better at banging your head on a wall. The trick is to do it until the blood actually spurts. For best results, check to see whether you have bits of skull in the blood flow.
@19 Why would you feel sorry for 40+ million war criminals? Let them suffer as others have suffered through their actions.
16. Axel you get the award for the dumbest poster on this board. Can you name one company that has ever been nationalized in Argentina that is doing well? One...just one??? Aerolinas Argentina very shortly is not going to be able to fly internationally because of their poor maintenance record, Aguas Argentina has areas in BA that don't have running water especially in the summer and the pipes are old and collapsing, Banco Nacion and Anses are in effect bankrupt every U$ has been stolen and replaced with WORTHLESS Arg bonds, omg the list goes on and on.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you think this is a good thing you are delusional.
@ 1
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would you show us which house you live there..
could be by way of a YouTube video.
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_Beach,_California
Poor boy... for all we see your living town seems very boring and can be understood why you devote yourself to internet web sites in 24 th hours.
@22.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason I feel sorry for the Argentines in that they cyclically self-harm. They are desperate, absolutely desperate to be regarded in the world and at home, and in pursuit of this aim they undermine themselves.
That's not to say I don't wish it upon them to some degree : )
They seem to have taken the very worst qualities of their societal roots - just a few months ago people on this board were telling me that they had the entire world on their side - yet to them this move is a good thing..
Screw them.
Even if you disregard all of the peripheral consequences, where does CFK think she is going to get the U$25 BILLION a year FOR THE NEXT 10YRS it is going to take to develop the large fields? They are running a current account deficit already and don't have access to Intl capital markets. I am flummoxed.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 1
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But..trust me ..I never say your real name ,identity here....
@266
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they have no intention to invest. They will be after their assets and will strip them bare. they are after whatever dollars they can get out of this to shore up their fucked economy.
the RG's couldnt run a piss up in a brewery which is the ultimate irony in all of this.
It is well known that in Venezuela when they did this production when down 30% not up.
@26 - this isn't CFK's problem. Her current problem is to keep all the deluded masses distracted long enough so she can take her I'll gotten gains and twinkle-toe her way out of the country.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt she'll leave that dolt Timmerman behind to take all the blame. In the meantime, CFK will be giggling into her Tequila, in Venezula or Cuba, as she counts the billions of dollars she has stolen.
A part of me feels sorry for them, but the people of Argentina keep bringing these troubles down upon themselves.
26 yankeeboy
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think that for a minute that they contemplate getting hold U$25 BILLION a year FOR THE NEXT 10YRS to help develop these fields. This nationalisation seems to me to driectly aimed at getting hold of cashflow from YPF just as nationalisation of the pernsion funds was aimed at getting hold of capital. What do you think?
@26
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK knows she won't get that money - this self-destructive behaviour is desperation pure and simple - there are coming sanctions from the EU, forget the “international support” for forcing Falklands dialogue (lol), Argentina's (sane) allies in south America are already beginning to see what is happening and are beginning to distance themselves accordingly - all people like CFK want to do is stay in power at any cost, they are in forced denial over the economy, and when the inevitable crash happens she needs to be able to blame it on the rest of the world.
What does surprise me is that the Argentines posting here can't see what is happening, where is their “support” now, you know, the “global support” they were boasting about just a few weeks ago? By pretending that Argentina without corporate investment and partnership will be able to develop the fields is just one in a series of lies that will in all likelihood end in characteristic Argentine failure.
And as a Briton I am glad of that, the more idiotic KFC is the more she is distanced and the louder she shouts the less anyone will listen or notice - meanwhile Falklands Oil & Gas exploration and development will continue apace - can anyone think of a major international oil company that might no longer care one single solitary fuck about Argentina's supposed sanctions against oil companies assisting Falklands development?
Think about it : )
We already know it,
Apr 17th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See we are all clever little British turnips,
And a soft sweet Swede is no match for a weather beaten hardened ground loving turnip,
Unless you like argentine Soya beans,
Beans beans good for ya heart,
The more you eat the more u ?
Enough said we think .lolol
30. I mentioned weeks ago this was for Ypf's cash flow and the U$ 2B cash on hand. Plus it is a good internal political move. Rah Rah kick the foreigners out. Blah Blah.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The gov't will squeeze every $ out of YPF do no exploration and wipe out the current reserves. Just like they have done with every nationalization since the Ks took over.
This is eerily similar to what Peron did except they had reserves to make the decent into poverty gradual. It took 4 generations from them to go from a rich country to a poor country. Now there are no reserves, no access to Int'l $ and any hope of FDI is gone. They are already running a current account deficit. This may get them through the cash flow issue from the drought but once it's spent its gone. You can steal it twice.
The time has come for countries to begin whithdrawing their buisines from argentina,
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0before she nicks the lot, and claim another victory .
Chile ( ECH ) , Peru ( EPU ) or Brazil ( EWZ ) , could all be better picks for investors intent on exposing their assets to South America without the economic mess that is Argentina. After all, the move by Argentina is being portrayed by many as a desperate move in order to plug holes created by a decade of economic mismanagement and misallocation. It seems highly unlikely that the nationalization will solve the country's problems-without creating a whole host of new ones-and for that reason investors should stay far away from ARGT for the foreseeable future.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://community.nasdaq.com/News/2012-04/argentina-etf-in-focus-on-nationalization-proposal-etf-news-and-commentary.aspx?storyid=134367
@ 32
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No......He is not from Swede origin.
eg. poor boy, this is the evidence of he doesn't know the British English enough......becouse that in British English accented jargon said Swede=yellow turnip..
33 makes a great point.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another thing people seem to be overlooking is that while development of Argentine oil looked tempting the KFC sanctions against those companies developing the Falklands fields were a real threat, Argentine reserves in all likelihood significantly outweigh those of the Falklands- now that she's just demonstrated so boldly to the oil industry that investment in Argentina is fraught with risks - of asset snatches by an unpredictable, volatile and desperate regime, Argentina's ability to negatively influence the Falkland's resource development decreases.
Argentina is on a self-destruct mission. We would be insane to have any shore based oil facilities/refinery in Argentina after this theft. Even African countries wouldn't dare do this.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 @15 Do you know what is the definition of Neoliberalism? There is many other capitalist based models that are better like all european Welfare States of the post IIWW the 70' 80' 90' neoliberalism destroyed the state to give them to the market, it is no matter about comunism or capitalism, it is matter of upgrade to an alternative system that have as first objetives the population rather the finnancial system or big companies.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 The pure Neoliberalism is the self-destruction of the nations, look around Europe: Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal... and the list will continue. As Argentina was victim of self destruction of Menem's Neoliberlaism in '90s.
Here we go, again? Remember, when the Argentina government owned the oil company, it was the only oil company in the world which constantly lost money.
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(14) Welsh Wizard
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A qualified, informed and fair posting….
Thanks for the good wishes…..
Same to you in Europe.
^^
Apr 17th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rubbish, this is about theft, pure and simple, why should any company invest in anything if there is no law to prevent states deciding to steal their resources.
This is desperation, you can try to divert attention via puerile arguments about “neoliberalism” all you want. As your state starts to decay towards the next (now inevitable) economic crash and you have to start again from square one I have no doubts that in 20 years time there will once again be idiots from Argentina praising the next crazy dictatorial scumbag for doing exactly the same.
History repeating.
( 24 )
Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you certain ...?
@ 13 Enjoy the sun, don't worry for us, thanx :)
Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 30 the welsh fighter for REPSOL, I hope REPSOL will pay for your services :)
This is a great day, even for me :P
'To have an open competitive market' is the only choice open to a free democratic country otherwise you will create a bigger version of 'Cuba,' a one part state. Or is this the true goal of the current Argentinian government?
Apr 17th, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 43
Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 %
just proof not guessing...
he has really showy first name..!
but a careful person can easily solve this trick easily that is ...1) written comments by California time...2 ) he doesn't know British English....3 ) just internet Argentine ( almost everybody knows fluent Spanish in California)....4 ) numb brain have like Americans...thats simple....
Maybe,he wants to be a [ internet game writer ] by using many many names...but he is zero on Economy,Sociology,Psychology,Oil Engineering,Art History,History....however he has 100 points on internet linkage,YouTube watching,......eeeeee not enough to be a good writer...........
We are wasting our times by these ordinary persons.....
[ Attention !....--ordinary-- word could be used differently meaning in British jargon which not known by Americans...i used it as -noun- here ]
( 46 )
Apr 17th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0interesting !
“”“ ordinary man ”“” ? ......Laughter.....Laughter.....Laughter.....
Come on people! If companies like REPSOL had acquired any national company with a long history in a process surrounded by corruption (like REPSOL acquired YPF during the 90s) used the resources of your countries, exporting them and leaving your country in a critical energetic situation, why would it be wrong to let the National State retake part of the company??
Apr 18th, 2012 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0REPSOL are the villains in here, they are the inefficient and speculative part of the most anarchist version of capitalism.
And REPSOL is a private company, so why would Spanish government take it so personal? Don't you agree that he Spanish Government needs something to distract spanish people from realizing the hard, antidemocratic and unfair decisions that are being taken against the spanish lower and media classes??
Argentina has done nothing against the Spanish people and it is awful to see this DISGUSTING headlines that only defends companies that care nothing about nationalities.
REPSOL has no flag, REPSOL can even make more profit if the Euro losses its value...
When Marsans (the Spain based company that owned “Aerolíneas Argentinas” till a couple of years ago) left the company in a terrible situation to the Argentinian Government that bought it back Argentina didn't turn it into a problem with Spain, it was a problem with a private company, and the thing with REPSOL is the same!
Don't be ignorants.
44 xbarilox
Apr 18th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not a repsol supporter and if you had read my first post then you would see that. I think having some control over energy is important as it gives an element of state security and, to that extent, I that that nationalisation is a good thing but it need to be done in conjunction with a private company as they are the only ones who have the ability to invest the required cash.
In this instance, I that she has (partly) done the right thing but in totally the wrong way and for the wrong reasons.
YANKEE BOY.
Apr 18th, 2012 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We wont never agree each other with our opinions, because fortunatelly we are very diferent.
Firstly, respecting your question, for me all the enterprises which were nationalized work much better now than when they were private, because they have a social function, but that's something that you dont care in absolut about.
Anses increased more than 100% it's fund, in 2008 it was 780000 millions dollars, and now it's more than 1800000 millions dollars, it continues making planty of public works and increasing the salaries of retires people. But thete is a lot to do for our people, because we are still a very unequeal society. Aysa (former aguas argentinas), since it was nationalized it started to provide of water to more than 5 millions of compatriots, may be it has still deficit but you can't take into account only the deficit, because a public enterprise doesn't care about profis, it cares about the social function, and thank to that so called deficit, it provides of water to more millions of people. Respecting aerolineas, it still has defcit too, but the most important is that it' s the only one airline that travels to all those places of the country which are not profitable, such ahuge nation like arg. needs a statal airline which units the whole country, beside it could renew it's airplanes, it could recover planty of the destinies that it had lost during the private administrations, and more than one million people were incorporated between it's passengers, it still has deficit too, but it's exercising the social function that it must comply, beside the so called deficit diminished to more than the half.
Respecting ypf, i already said why i support the appropiation of the 51% of it's actions, and why i criticised the bad policy that the gov. had taken some years ago for the enterpise, anyway, as usuall we wont never agree with any of these issues, because you dont care in absolut about social functions, but i do.
US government supports free market; in other news Pope supports Catholicism...Hardly a huge surprise, or blow!
Apr 18th, 2012 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#3 ”it(neoliberalism)'s doing fine”
Are you even on the same planet?! You couldn't make it up...
#15 Actually North Korean pseudo-communist dictatorship AND neoliberalism are BOTH decaying systems. Thankfully the progressive democracies of Latin America provide an alternative to both =)
#16 “THE WOMAN WHO IS CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE HISTORY”
I like that...
“What i have always admire from c. f. k, is her bravery, not many politicians do what she did yesterday”
Amen to that, she really is amazing, an inspiration =)
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