MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
World Bank and France criticize Argentina’s “mistake” and international law breach
Argentina's move to nationalize local oil company YPF, controlled by Spain's Repsol, was strongly criticized by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick and French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules... and then TOTAL goes sniffing for the ex-YPF deals and France sells them shiny new exocets via Brazil.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Consistency please.
GY. Come on, we are talking about France here. France only cares about one thing, France.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Apr 19th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have asked this question before, never gotten an answer:
The Brits always make statements like “country X only cares about itself”.
Give me examples of the UK doing things for others out of the goodness of their hearts. Thank you.
Rule 1: Talking about WWII is not permitted.
(That was not a service to the world, it was a war of survival for Britain, so it doesn't count.)
Rule 2: If you want to talk about WWII, see rule 1.
You're right, France does quite like France quite a lot, now you come to mention it.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another national hobby of theirs is 'selling Exocets to Argentina', which apparently they're still doing.
Theft is theft. It's not noble or right, just because a government does it (popularly elected, or not). This should be a warning to any business or government around the world if they were even slightly thinking about investing in Argentina.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At the turn of the 20th century, Argentina was the 4th richest country in the world. Look where their viveza criolla mentality and arrogance have led them. They are, rightfully so, the laughing stock of the world. Bunch of chumps.
@5. It was technically theft, going both against international law and the constitution of Argentina.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bithieving.
Tobias. Goes back a lot longer than ww2. Oh at least a 1000 years. It's a national institution, Frog bashing. It's goes on across the channel too, I'm sure they love to bash us Roastbeefs. Vive Le entente cordial!
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course they do. I never understood those tribal european rivalries.
Wonderful stuff; bring it on, please. This is priceless PR for the Falklands!
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It appears that Brit-bashing is a common tactic when elections are due, might explain Sarkozys attitude of late.
Give me examples of the UK doing things for others out of the goodness of their hearts. Thank you
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One example, the British government has increased overseas aid to 12 BILLION
It aint my bloody heart, but it will make some poor hearts flutter with excitement .
.
I don't know I've always quite liked France for its willingness to be different and do things that favor its own countrymen.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has far too often done something politically correct that is bad for the British people. I'd be happy for the UK to act a little more like France in this aspect.
France is a bloody nice place too!
Do you know the reason we stick up two of our fingers in the UK to say 'fruk you' relates to Frog-bashing too. This activity relates to how all British males had to partake in daily longbow practice, which was particularly useful in wars. The V-sign dates back to the Battle of Agincourt where those jolly froggies would capture us and cut off our bow fingers, the fingers involved in the V. The sign we British make is actually a taunt to the French to show we are still able to shoot them.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here is an asian person showing precisely how to tell people to get frucked (http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/3b/3b8e7f31_v-sign-hwang-mi-hee-14-361x540.jpeg)
Give me examples of the UK doing things for others out of the goodness of their hearts. Thank you.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK & the 0.7% aid target, and the Draft International Development (ODA Target) Bill
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snep-
Korean War - British Casualties
0http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snep-
British aid to India will continue
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snep-
British robot helps rescue trapped Russian sub crew
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/briefings/snep-
Not to mention getting G8 countries to right off Billions of African debt.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can say what you like about the UK but what you absolutely cannot say is it doesn't try to help others.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its a massive aid contributor, it goes to the aid of countries in need and supports many other countries in many ways. However, I don't wish to paint the UK as a amazing country that doesn't make any mistakes. Iraq was a huge mistake and being in Afghanistan with NATO isn't good in my view.
But don't the French also contribute to those institutions? And the Germans? Italians? Scandinavians? Americans? Sure they do.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK we will return share to YPF as soon as France returned Gaddafi to libya let us know when this smelly turds meet the world demand for justice, either that or Argentina can arm terrorist to free them from the grip of capitalist.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 FYI. Your original question didn't mention 'what any other country did or didn't do'.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes they do
Apr 19th, 2012 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0much nowhere near what we do .
Tobias. France was a founder member of Nato, however under De Gaul, she left when she developed her own nuclear weapon. She did keep liaison officers in the organisation. I think she became a contributing member again in the 1990's
Apr 19th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IMF and France should respect Argentina's rights to self determination and stop dictating to Argentine, further more should France or IMF pretend to protect international laws we demand they return Gaddafi and libya to their people, we don't hate the French just the murderers of Muslims and all hypocrits and bastards.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22. If Argentina can legally seize YPF, then the European Union should freeze all of Argentina's assets throughout the EU. You may think Cristina's plans are a good idea, but trying to rally support from other countries over the Falklands will now be impossible. Everyone is distancing themselves from Argentina at an alarming rate. International businesses operating inside Argentina (employing Argentinians) will be thinking of other plans and a exit strategy. If the foreign businesses go who will employ Argentinians?
Apr 19th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why does Pirat keep mentioning self determination? It's theft and has zero to do with self determination.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How very odd.
@23
Apr 19th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shock, shock. 90% of jobs in Argentina are self-employed, public sector, or argentine companies (mainly small and medium sized so called PYMES).
Just a bit haughty on your part suggesting without foreigners no one in Argentina would have a job isn't it?
@25. I'm not suggesting that. If you have no foreign businesses investing in Argentina and now likely wanting to exit from Argentina then it things must be bad! Which company is Cristina going to steal next? I think it is about time the EU and other countries started reacting to this in a more serious way. What do you think about the EU seizing assets? Perhaps all of the Argentine embassies in all EU countries should be seized, sold off and the money given to the companies the Argentine government have stolen from? Argentina is very alone on this in the international community and is continually forcing itself into isolation.
Apr 19th, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Extremely amusing, the British posters and some Chileans and Spaniards are simply hilarious. Like vultures, in a constant state of longing hahaha
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.publico.es/dinero/429948/repsol-negociaba-la-venta-de-ypf-a-la-china-sinopec
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Google translate:
”The nacionalizaciópn of YPF from Argentina has been able to thwart the plans to sell its subsidiary Repsol Argentina to the oil company China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation (Sinopec), as reported on Wednesday the Financial Times.
The negotiations for the sale would have developed behind the Argentine government's back, despite that the government of Cristina Fernandez had to give its approval to the transaction given its 'golden share' in YPF.”
They cheered Peron.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0They cheered Galtieri.
Now they cheer for Kirchner.
It is because the Argentines are an inferior nation, made of inferior minds that they don't see history repeating itself. You have natural resources that should make you have a GDP/Capita of 30-40 000 USD, instead you are still part of the third world.
You just applaud whatever that plastic-faced whore does, but consider this:
a) You say you are developing an international consensus to put pressure on the UK to return the Falklands.
b) You say it is good to piss off Chile, Mexico, Spain, France, the entire oil industry and STEAL assets without due compensation.
It is going to be funny when this “praise” of Kirchner becomes horror that your economy has collapsed and your “government” has become a “regime”.
Just like.. before.
And because Argentina is a BACKWARDS nation, a POOR nation, and an ARROGANT nation that typifies all of the worst traits of its European cultural origins it cheers for Kirchner - a stupid person can not see that a) and b) are not compatible - can not see that their WEAK and DESPERATE nation whose economy is FAILING is simply DIVERTING ATTENTION in the same way that PERON and GALTIERI did.
This is why we have contempt for you, that you can be proud of managing to CONSISTENTLY screw yourselves for almost 100 years while praising the stupid PVC-faced fascist whore for doing it yet again.
You have no right to be nationalistic, your nation is a joke, and always will be.
Huzzah!
@29. Says someone who is determined to bash on the internet whatever policies Argentina takes as well as the country as a whole for the sole reason of disagreeing with Argentina's policy towards the Malvinas.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0How FORWARD of you. What a RICH and HUMBLE contribution you make.
IMF???
Apr 20th, 2012 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4353655982817317115
@25 Tobias
Apr 20th, 2012 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying that job creation is irrelevant to a nations economy, or for that matter, irrelevant to its citizens. Its a facinating concept.
@31... Well if you think stealing foreign businesses by nationalisation is the answer then you are most certainly wrong. The EU and the US will not tolerate it. The situation has been very much publicised worldwide and business leaders will not want to invest in Argentina. I guess these businesses that would invest, and have already invested, are looking at exit strategies from Argentina. International trade will reduce and hopefully asset freezing and seizing will take place around the world, so the companies can fairly get back, what Argentina wrongfully took away from them.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0If Cristina carries on like this the recession of 2001 will look totally insignificant! She is destroying your country and you don't see it. It's like witnessing an horrific car crash, though her face looks pretty mangled up already, so she is obviously in the driving seat.
On another note, has anyone else heard the news about this massive shale oil find in and around the UK. Apparently deposits could exceed 1,000 trillion cubic feet ranking the UK alongside China, the U.S. and Argentina. Analysis predict that it could lead to complete self-sufficiency for the UK.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0#23 “If the foreign businesses go who will employ Argentinians?”
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The state maybe, as it takes their assets on their way out =)
#29 “that plastic-faced whore”
You don't like strong women do you?
#33 Argentina nationalized a company that didn't fufil their contract with the state, now what USA and EU did in Iraq and libya is theft, be careful when you speak to us Argentine's, you might get the lemmings americans to believe the trash you spew but us Argentine know better. Go tell your lies to dumn people.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@36 You need a judge to say what is or isn't fulfilling it's contract. Just simply nationalising something on a presidential whim goes against legal process and against the Argentinian constitution, given they didn't say how much they were paying for it beforehand.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The fact you want to pretend everyone else is a liar when your president seems to work outside of the law, is beyond me.
Untill she is stopped, nothing or no one is safe .
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 036
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Nationalised”? Well yes, perhaps, in that the end result was that the state ends up with over 50% of the shares, but this was done in a discriminatory way in that Repsol's shares were expropriated whilst shares held by Argentinian friends of the regime were not taken.
And that, my friend, is totally contrary to international law and a clear breach of the bilateral investment treaty between Argentina and Spain. Go read the treaty.
“It is mistake and the wrong thing to do”
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hows your worldwide support going Argenvina???
@3 Typical argie feckwit. “We make the rules and the rules cannot be challenged unless we find they don't work for us as well as we thought they would.”
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0World War Two: Britain declared war in accordance with its guarantees to Poland, after having given Hitler a chance to withdraw. FACT. It wasn't a war for the survival of Britain until after May 1940.
But then who'd expect an argie feckwit, whose cuntry was too cowardly to get involved, to know that?
@8 How so? You appear to have a tribal European name!
@17 France ranks 8th in “overseas aid”. Way less than the United States (1st) and the United Kingdom (2nd).
@18 Gaddafi is still in Libya. It's true that he's also dead. The Libyans killed him. Do try to keep up.
@22 See above.
@25 But argieland refuses to provide data. And if YOUR data comes from INDEC, it's a lie anyway!
@27 Just remember, it's not the vultures that die!
@28 Don't forget that CFK has been planning this since at least last year, and possibly longer.
@30 But it's YOUR policy. GENOCIDE is YOUR policy. GREED is YOUR policy. LYING is YOUR policy. THEFT (or attempted THEFT) is YOUR policy. Adult human beings don't like that. Why should ANYONE be HUMBLE in relation to argieland? YOU certainly aren't adult and it's doubtful if you could be recognised as human.
@35 Define “strong” and “women”. Be careful. No rational individual would place CFK in either category.
@36 Poor child. Is that what CFK told you to say today? Makes no more sense than anything she's said since 2003. How's her “fortune” now? Well over US$15 million I hear. Hope you realise that CFK, personally, gets 25% of the taxes you pay. Can't have the poor shag slag going short, can you?
#37 no judges needed just a signed contract will do and we have one.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#38 we Argentines feel safer from pirate corporations like fakland island company and now repsol, we don't really care for your safety its our homes and way of life under threat and Argentina security is not negotiable, go cry to someone who cares.
#39 nobody else but spain threaten Argentina for complying with Argentine laws, they're punitive charges for trying to dictate to the Argentine's justice system and the same will happen to those nations who want to part take, you would think the morons knew Argentina has nothing to lose but they keep coming.
#40 what support??Lol make up you mind funny boys the joke is over and the offer is a little to late maybe next time, say 100 years!
#41 well there is your answer then repsol to Argentina is dead the Argentine democracy killed it for not fulfilling their agreements, I'll keep up but you better be paying attention to the facts.
Lol we have laws in Argentina repsol didn't respect it's legal ablition with the state of Argentina, the state waited 10 years and repsol invested in mexico and Brazil but still didn't meet it's obligation with the state and now it was too late, cry us a river and we will see them in the international courts, if they want to throw more money at the problem bring it on!!! we will be happy to listen and then grab more.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
I'm not very good at economics. Lets see if I@ve got this right.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. Public Companies raise money by issuing shares at a certain price per share.
2. I buy those shares at a certain price, hoping that the price of the share increases. Thereby making me money.
3. The Public Company then takes the money they raised by issuing the shares
and uses it to conduct business. The purpose of which is to trade and earn profit.
4. The more successful the company, the more profit they make, the the bigger the value of my shares.
5. To make that profit the company may take my money, my shares and invest them by establishing business links abroad.
Seems logical therefore that I am not going to buy any shares in any company that plays silly buggers with my money, by investing it in an obvious bad risk.
Is this a logical fair assessment or is my understanding of coomerce and economics wrong. Perhaps some of our economists on these posts could enlighten me.
#43 if you invest in a company that breaks contracts and laws even if you are fredy mac or fany mae You will be liquidated even if it's USA, Spain or Argentinam see you all in the international courts and good luck you'll need it.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/117885
www.bradblog.com/?p=9238
@44. Trade blocks, sanctions and asset freezing will take place long before it reaches international courts.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@44
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You totally missed the point. The point being, no one will invest money on a bad risk. Is that clear enough. Now you might think that by behaving like it is the Argentine government is not setting a precidence that she is a bad risk. I on the other hand think think that she is. Now if I think like that and I'm just a normal every day person. It reasonable to assume that those, who do have the money and do invest it, will feel the same. It's not rocket science, it's common sense. Now you and other Argentinians might feel, justifiably in your opinion, that you do not need capital investment in your country, fine, it's your country. You make your decisions and you live with the consequences. It's that some of us here really do not think you have thought it through and know just what those consequences could be. That's all, simple as that.
#45 Lol Argentina has nothing to loose, in any case we will be dealing with China, India or pakisan where EU can't dictate or threat. They might even pay full price for our products, if not I guess we will be eating a lot of meat and soy this decade and loughing at the hunger EU is building for themselves. Good luck with those assets it will help Argentina keep our money in the country.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#46 I guess you don't know what IMF loans in US dollars did to our economy and if you don't know I understand why you speak that way, but I think it's great we get no more money for the corrupt to theft, if Argentina doesn't have money for something why let the corrupt sign for it, let our government work and get a head, rather then sign debts wich Argentine's will never see but every blood sucker will want to charge interests on.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/117885
www.bradblog.com/?p=9238
Argentina has everything to loose. The BRIC countries will come under pressure from the US, EU, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand and the World Bank and the IMF to stop dealing with Argentina when it becomes reckless. You are totally blinded by your leader's inability to understand economics and world politics. She will take herself off to her Führerbunker before too long with her pistol and cyanide tablets... and really leave you lot to pick up the pieces.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 042 Pirat-Hunter
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you get more confusing theolder you get,
christ knows what you are going tro be like when you reach the next item
??????????
@47 Pirat Hunter. Sorry I'm having trouble understanding you. This is not a criticism, after all you are writing in my language and I can not speak yours.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right I do not know much about your history. You seem to be saying that Argentina obtained a loan from the IMF and that was a bad thing for you.
You also seem to be saying that the interest on the loan was high. Surely, anyone taking a loan does so knowing there is interest to be paid, if you can not make the payment, then you do not take the loan. It's not as if you sign up to something and do not know what your commiting yourself to, it's there in black and white. As I understand it you defaulted on the loan anyway. It sound like the loan was obtained with no intention of paying it back. That seems to be desperate and dishonest. Sorry but that's how I see it.
#50
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 is just playing the victim card again - Argentina was on its uppers, so the IMF lent them some money, but really this was just a wicked conspiracy to exploit them etc etc etc. Never mind that the mess they were in was due to the perennial failure of repeated Argentinian governments to master basic economic concepts, in the eyes of the average Argentinian its all down to wicked foreigners who repeatedly shaft their country.
But Argentina did not take an IMF bailout, that's why it defaulted. Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, Indoensia, Thailand, Philipines, did not default in their crises because they were bailed out. Argentina only was granted for a couple of months a so called “blindaje financiero” (literally “financial armor”), in which the IMF simply said we are making 18 billion USD available to Argentina to back up the Central Bank in case of speculation. It wasn't a bailout, it wasn't even a loan since we didn't get to use the money like a real loan, it was just a monetary gimmick, similar to the current European Stabilization fund or whatever it is called.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All I am saying is that Argentina will not pay money we did not have that's all, and if you gives money to corrupt Argentine's as you call them don't blame us if you don't get any payments, you can't blame the world stupidity on us argentine's.. In other words you are barking up the wrong tree. After IMF fiasco Spanish people should of learned the lesson but they didn't and we lought all the way to the bank, keep it up and EU, France, spain and USA might not have anything ever again In Argentina because we will make sure you never get a dime from the land even if we have to watch it burn or go to waste under under our feet. You being told. Don't come crying tomorrow!!!
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/117885
www.bradblog.com/?p=9238
|Sorry I'm lost. Argentina did not receive a single dollar from the IMF?
Apr 21st, 2012 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not as a bailout. A bailout is: “here take the money, pay all your bills, you'll pay us later”.
Apr 21st, 2012 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina had a stand-by loan that could only be used in case of a speculative attack on the peso. So it wasn't really even a loan as you could not withdraw the 18 billion in one swoop, and it could not be used to pay debt, salaries, or whatever. It was just a financial tactic to protect the peso since it was tied to the dollar then.
When it became obvious that woudn't work the IMF, US, EU, etc pull the plug. That's why Argentina defaulted and why other countries in a similar situation in the recent past did not. And why a nationalist government came to power... it could be argued.
one may call it, what one like,
Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but it is money,
it was given
and must be paid back
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