MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Malvinas veterans revisit scenes of war where they were tortured by their officers
In the this 30th anniversary year of the armed conflict between British and Argentine forces it is not surprising that we have seen, and will continue to see, increased numbers of veterans from both sides arriving in the Falkland Islands. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesAs a soldier I was always taught that stealing food that was meant to go around all of my fellow troops was one of the worst things possible to do on an operation. But I also know that all of the officers and senior NCOs were taught that one of the most important, if not THE most important thing to do was to keep the troops fed.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0An army marches on it's stomach. It's sadly not a surprise to hear these stories coming out from the war, I wonder how long it will be until all UK files are released so we can know 100% what happened from the British side?
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's basic common sense and common decency to ration food for the troops.... obviously something Argentina lacked and in and probably still does. Nice!
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The really sickening part of this story is that there was no need for the Chicos to go hungry. There were masses of supplies in Stanley - it was just never delivered to the troops on the mountains in the west.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've read many books on the conflict and never read a reason why this happened.
@2 Boovis - it's all been pretty much documented by British troops themselves they were not bound by silence on the matter, and there have been numerous books and television documentaries made about the war.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The difference between Argentine and British troops during the Falklands were many.
The Argentine troops were mainly poorly trained conscripts, between 18 and 20 years of age.
The British troops were all well trained professional soldiers and ranged between 18 and 30 years of age.
The British had their problems with logistical supply (not surprising considering the distances they had travelled to get to the Falklands), but British Officers and SNCO's, always ensure that their troops are fed 1st. As Napoleon famously said, 'An Army marches on it's stomach.'. Ensuring the men are fed, knowing them as individuals and not as just one of many, and showing concern for their well-being, and sharing the same hardships as them, is good for unit cohesion and the maintenance of morale.
For the Argentine troops, their appeared to be a disconnect between officers and their troops. It appears that beyond capturing the Falklands the Junta hadn't actually put any thought into what they would do with them. They also didn't believe that the British could or indeed would send troops to recapture them, and hadn't even thought of how to resupply their own troops. Indeed, many Argentine officers didn't even stay in the field with their troops. No wonder Argentine morale was low. They were treated better as prisoners of war, by their supposed enemy, than they were by their own officers.
You have to feel sorry for the cruelty that the Argentinian conscripts had to put up with: they were victims as much as anyone else in the conflict. It is horrific to think this happened towards the end of the 20th century...and that the veterans are still having to fight for their rights.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does anybody know if there is an Argentine equivalent of the Military Covenent, or any movement to institute something similar?
This is a *bad* story,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0so perhaps it is understandable that Mercopress should wish to use the word Malvenas to identify the location.
I think I might have preferred Mercopress to use the expression
'.... during the months of armed occupation of the Falkland Islands'.
@6 The issue here is that the Argentinian military like to consider themselves as heroes and also victims and winners and unfairly treated...and blah. None of them followed the rules of war, they were just throwing landmines around like sweeties and storing weaponry in civilian areas. They were shooting after declaring themselves in a state of surrender. They claim the ARA Belgrano was just hanging about doing nothing untoward.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0You never really know where you stand with them, and they definitely seem incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions.
I doubt it very much. In fact, the only time you hear the Argentine government mention the veterans of the Falklands war, is when they want to make a few cheap political points. Other than that they are largely ignored.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0There's a famous poem by Rudyard Kipling regarding British soldiers, written in the late 19th or early 20th century called Tommy Atkins, it's a god poem and. You should look it up on the Internet.
http://faxmentis.org/html/kipling.html
One part of the poem states:
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it's “Saviour of 'is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
Basically, people (in general) don't think too much of soldiers in peacetime, but when there's a war on they're seen as hero's, and once the war is done, what happens to the soldiers then?
This is what Rudyard Kipling was saying, and since then the treatment of British troops (by the government and public) has improved dramatically, including the Military Covenant, since this poem was written.
Unfortunately for the Argentine troops they still have a long way to go. It's easy being a 'hero' when everything goes your way, but when it doesn't people want to forget what happened, and in doing so forget the suffering of the young men who were fighting in their name.
@9 I personally think the issue with the Argtard military is cognitive retardation.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0a) Argtardia invades another country's territory.
b) Other country sends battle-fleet in response
c) Argtardia gets upset about battle-fleet, sends battle fleet to destroy other fleet.
d) Submarine destroys an Argtard capital-ship.
e) Argtardia wets the bed and entire fleet returns to base with tail between legs.
f) Argtardia cries and says it's not fair sinking their ships.
g) Argtardia sinks HMS Sheffield, in a festival of hypocrisy.
There genuinely seems to be something wrong with the way their brains are wired, such that they cannot see what is in front of their noses, and they respond to any event in some kind of flurry of nonsense-words. Ultimately Argtards are incapable of seeing or understanding there is a response to any action, which could be a sign of a nationwide genetic strain of autism. Either way, it's a pathological issue.
Good luck to all the tortured soldiers suing their officers, they were definately treated abysmally by the junta
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you were trying to say...
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Good luck to all the tortured soldiers suing their officers, they were definately treated abysmally by Argentina”
@11 British_Kirchnerist
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry...just realised I don't understand.
Can you explain why the soldiers themselves are having to sue their officers?
Why isn't the current administration taking a lead on this?
...or indeed “definitely”.....
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0That big!?
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah...... I believe you.
@13 The Kirchner Administration only acts on behalf of the plaintiff when it's something that might stick to them, because of endemic corruption and under-investment in say the rail service.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rather than have people say 'oh, this is clearly as a result of years of under-investment, who was in power during those years?', they align themselves with the plaintiff and say 'we have solidarity with you' even though ultimately it was their fault.
The Kirchners have spent many years trying to bamboozle adults and brainwash children into separating the actions of the Junta from the people of the Falklands, such that now they try to think Argentina didn't even have a war, therefore the UK couldn't have 'won the land in battle' as is normal in Latin America.
The KFC Administration is too busy making itself look glorious for the people's cause with Your-Pretty-Fooked (YPF) at the minute, so it doesn't need the Junta issue to cling to.
What, pray, is the justification for these argie ex-soldiers (if that's what they really are) to be on the Falkland Islands? So they can stand on a bit of ground and say “This is where I got shot at.” or “This is where I was when we put up a white flag, except that I had my fingers crossed.” or “This where I was before I started running.” But I presume that most of them used the excuse of visiting the argie war cemetary. So why weren't they bussed direct from the place of arrival to the cemetary, given a couple of hours and then bussed back? How many “intelligence operatives” (spies) were there amongst the “visitors”?
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0You Falkland Islanders are, I'm afraid, quite possibly too trusting. Yes, you have British troops etc. there now and that may make you feel safer. But the fact remains that you still have an enemy a few hundred miles away intent on taking your land, your homes, your livelihoods, your way of life. And if you keep making it easy for him (her), sooner or later he (she) will come again.
So, to reiterate things said only two or three days ago, get those remains dug up, forensically examined to ensure that the argies can't “manufacture” any evidence of war crimes and shipped to argieland. Then you can stop letting argies into your country.
Just think for a few minutes. This article details an argie conscript staked out on freezing ground in low temperatures by his officer(s). And now he works for the argie Senate? Just what would it take to change his story to one where he was captured by the British and staked out by them?
The war is not over. It is just being conducted by different means and is going through a “quiet” phase. Britain will still come to your aid whatever, but you also have to properly defend yourselves!
The task force could have waited 6 months and most of the argentine forces would have died through shear incompatence of the Junta :(
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0you cant surive on the islands for very long with out hot food and drink.
the argentine military issued two diffrent ration packs officers and other ranks.
British military officers eat after there blokes have eaten.
As they are the weapon Officers command.
#10
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“There genuinely seems to be something wrong with the way their brains are wired”
There are some fascinating studies - both foreign and Argentinian - on the Argentinian national character and the peculiar mismatch of ideas which make it up: the belief that they are a genuinely European people surrounded by lesser mestizo races, the delusions of grandeur, the belief that they would be truly great were it not for the fact that other countries have stolen their land, their oil etc etc, the belief that they are a victim of an international conspiracy, the constant bragadoccio, propensity to bullying, constant hypocracy, and so on. Almost a form of collective schizophrenia.
@19 If you asked for my diagnosis, I'd say Argentinians typically show signs of autism. Not being able to show empathy for others is one of the many signs. Not understanding the consequences to their actions is another ( A sign of ADHD). That's why they typically victimise themselves, and disconnect themselves from previous events rather than having to express something that they haven't got.. empathy and a sense of responsibility.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0It seems pretty widespread, so I'm guessing it's not a recessive trait.
@18 Martin Woodhead (#)
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:16 am
Bloody hell Martin! Wait 6 months? Imagine what would have happened to the civvies at the hands of out of control Argentinians driven half made by hunger?
It doesn't bear thinking about. It'd have been like Stalingrad. Did you see the mess they left after they surrendered? It looked like half a million pikeys had sailed by, taken a look and said 'this'll do'. Then just did what pikeys do best.
20
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fascinating stuff. To parrot dear old Professor Eysenck, I wonder if its nature or nurture which is to blame?
@22 Both.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe this man should be asked, if he still thinks it was right what his government is doing today,, to the islanders, rather than the past,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today he has the freedom to state his opinion, does he not .
.
Combine the worst aspects of half a dozen european peoples add a good helping of native American and African, stir in some good totalitarian German blood, coupled with decades of brainwashing.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haven't got much going for them, have they?
Well she does have some very loyal devoted delusional indoctrinated infatuated lovable bloggers on here,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That’s no conciliation but hey, who’s counting .
/////////////////
in the picture, is he claiming the one that got away,
I think he is demonstrating the position he was staked out in. Reminds me of first world war “field punishment”, interesting to know that the Argentinian military sticks with the punishments of that long ago war.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 ... and the weaponry.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the photo I think he's saying “My mullet used to be this long” or maybe he's talking about his back hair.
In famous propaganda source 'La Muchos Corruptos Nacion' there was some 1982 journalist saying about how he was having a great time pestering the local Falklanders, and his final comment was that he would only go back to the Falklands 'in a landing craft'. I guess they learned their lesson there then.
@ 28
Apr 20th, 2012 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yeah, thats the same guy who threw a tantrum when the Islanders were rude to him and demanded (and still demands) they be violently punished for their insolence.
He was nothing but a fascist worshiping pussy who wanted to play at being a soldier, and who still cant get over the fact the genocidal military he worshiped was humiliated by a nation he spent so long spewing propaganda against.
This is a picture of Conscript Ruben demonstrating how he surrendered 30 years ago.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LEPREcon. When I made full srew and got back from my promotion course, being RAF, my F/Sgt called me in to his office and congratulated me on my promotion. Then he laid down the law, basicaly if any of my blokes had troubles, family, finance,girlfriends, any problems at all and he found out about them before I did, then he would hold me responsible. Even though I was a Junior NCO with my frist step on the ladder, my first and only priority was the welfare and well being of the few men entrsusted to me. Best lesson in leadership I ever had, they come first.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DJ56 Field Punishment No 1. Tied with arms outstretched and back to the wheel of a gun carriage, between the hours of dawn and dusk. Punishment could be for a single or a number of days, if operations got in the way it would be resumed during quiter periods, until punishment completed. If , Wheels were not available, then doors or two posts lashed together like a crucifix were used. Barbaric to think a form of this was still going on, in a modern army at the end of the 20th century.
#21 sorry you were right being captured by the british probably saved more argentinans than leaving them to the tender mercy of there own army :(
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I actually watched ILUMINADOS POR EL FUEGO on you tube, with english sub titles. Setting aside its obvious propoganda value, I found myself having some sympathy with the Argentine conscripts. The poor bastards did not have the slightest idea what was coming their way. If the representation of how they were treated by their officers and NCO's was true, it was unbelievable how they wre treated. Officers living in heated huts whilst they froze in trenches, eating plenty of hot food, whilst they starved. Treated no better than animals being led to the slaughter.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33
Apr 20th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To be honest, the fact so many have become some of the most aggressive advocates of the same nationalist propaganda that led to the 1982 war in the first place has removed much of any sympathy I may have had for them
All to many of them seem to lack the courage to face the reality of why they went to war, and are all to eager to take their bitterness out by demanding the Islanders be punished
I have to wander whether those who actually did the fighting, are the same ones spouting the nationalistic propoganda?
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Despite my previous disagreements with Conqueror, he is absolutely 100% spot on with his views in his post. Under no circumstances should the 'veterans' be trusted. By all means let them 'visit' the appropriate locations to pay their respects, but under supervision, and with prior checks on their intent.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34 Do you think it is, in part, because they were treated so badly by Argentines after the war ended? They have a vested interest in rewriting history.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 034 ElaineB
Apr 20th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever their problem, it is an internal Argentine problem not a problem for the UK or Falklands governments.
35 reality check
I'd be interested to know the answer to that one also.
1 Think
Do you care to elaborate on your post? I love watching spin being formulated before my eyes.
ElaineB. You could be right. What I find particularly repulsive is, that now there veterans are finally being treated properly by their government, it's for the wrong reason. It's not because they did their duty bytheir country, it's for political posturing, to stir up the issue in the Argentinian mind set again.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33:
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ILUMINADOS POR EL FUEGO regards the islanders themselves as almost irrelevant- they are portrayed fairly sympathetically but very distantly.The main issue is the relationship between conscripts and officers and ex-soldiers and Argentine society.
How many Argentine officers come up from the ranks? in the British army I'd say a quarter or more, which means there are officers who know exactly what it's like in the ranks. Equally, NCOs in a conscript army are going to be long-service men and will identify with officers rather than being as much representatives of the swaddies as passing down orders from above. Finally, how far did the dirty war destroy the basic humanity of the Argentine officer corps? All of these factors wouldmake the officers more distant and less concerned with the men they commanded.
My opinion,
Apr 20th, 2012 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We all have some minute sympathy for some who may or may not have been forced to fight against their convictions.
History is full of it but in argentines place,
As they now live in so called democracy, , should not they now be condemning what their country did to the islanders, and as such, oppose CFK to what she is doing today,
We see none of this; around the world we all see the people demonstrate against the governments,
But in Argentina we still see loyalty in defence of its government’s action against the British Falklands and the British people,
So I feel they ex-servicemen have little to complain about,
I may well be wrong, but the impression we see from the argentine people on TV nothing much seems to have changed, and the society today seems just as loyally to their governments treatment of the islanders, as in the past .
Until the people wake up and remove this government, they may well live to regret to outcome of their governments decisions,
Just my opinion.
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And the 'Head of the Military' (just promoted by the Mad Bitch) was a 'veteran of the Malvinas' who NEVER set foot on the islands but sat in a radar container 'directing the planes to the Islands'.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So at least he had a good war.
It's actually quite sad this, I had just started high school in 1982 and I bet some of these weren't much older than me when they were sent to war without a clue about what they would have to do. You would think that Kirchner would be doing everything she could to distance herself this pointless and illogical claim. I would quite like to be a millionaire, its a nice thought but its never going to happen, I wonder how long it will be before the Argentine people can just accept reality.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All this ever comes down to is do you morally believe the falklanders should be able to live in peace free of tyranny from a particularly nasty bunch of untrustworthy thugs that they're unfortunate enough as to live next to.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If yes, then it's worthy of dying for. As we would all hope people (americans, canadians, australians, nepalese, kiwis, saffas, indians, et cetera) would die for our freedoms from Nazism.
It's a morality question, can these people be trusted. Machiavelli says no.
democracy says ....[NO]
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That picture needs a caption.
Apr 20th, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The lie I told to advance my point of view was 'this' big”.
The best description to describe the national steroetype Argentinian is as a 'bullying crybaby'. I notice that more and more Malvinistas are saying 'we woz robbed ' in the war because we were not only fighting the British but also behind the scenes the Americans and Nato.
Apr 21st, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinian problem is not even a Peronist- Kirchner one but more deep seated.When are they going to grow up? The answer seems to be never !
Caption
Apr 21st, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One day son,, none of this will be yours?
Friends Argies countrymen, lend me your ears,
But don’t stab me in the back.
I swear to you , the brits gave me a massive meal
Where’s it gone, I swear it was this big, [honest]
.
@47 Collectively I'd place them more towards 'Sociopathic Victim-players' whereby Argtards typically employ a technique used by abusers and bullies called 'Victim-play', a type of cognitive distortion. They use victim-play to generate sympathy for themselves whilst continuing the malformed behaviour towards others, manipulating people into believing they've having to do it for a reason.
Apr 22nd, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is how Argtards work. It's simple to see, and they seem to be convinced that no one else knows this is what they do.
“You're stealing our resources, your pirates.... so we have no choice but to invade the falkland islands”
“We were being ruled by a military junta, so we had no choice but to invade the falkland islands”
“The airforce were heroes, but they were conscripts, so we had no choice but to go to war”
“You sank our peace ship ARA Belgrano when we did nothing to cause it, so we sank HMS Sheffield, and others”
.... on and on and on it goes.
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