MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
S&P downgrades Argentina’s outlook to ‘negative’ spurred by policies enacted since October 2011
Rating Agency Standard and Poor’s (S&P) downgraded Argentina’s economic and financial outlook to “negative,” after the expropriation of YPF, which endangers the “B” rating the country has for its sovereign debt. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesdowngrading? no problem for the so called “government”. how? they are already on the rock bottom. they would be concerned once somebody would certify them as “reliable”.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0But hang on a minute! S&P says the UK with its AAA rating and wealthy, open and diversified economy is stable. How on earth can it be stable if the Argentine rating is negative? Every Malvinista know that the UK is “finished” and that Argentina is emerging in the new world order above the UK.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pirates go home (froth coming out of my mouth at this stage). Give us back our oil! Not that there is any oil... Err, of course.
S&P is just another bunch of cronies in the UK's back pocket. We don't WANT to get good ratings from these criminals.
Marcos, what do you reckon? Did I capture your key points?
Chuckle chuckle.
Careful with the froth Joe, I reckon that the Malvinistas must have special waterproof and froth-proof keyboards to avoid shorting them out.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just because S&P re-categorise Argentina's stock as 'junk' does not make it a junk country
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0............. just a country with whom you have financial dealings in the full knowledge that you may not get your investment back, let alone be allowed to make a profit.
But the world already knows this;
S&P is just marking down to a widely known reality.
Well this is a bit of a surprise. Did anybody else see this coming?
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Troll Response
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0our country doesnt listen to ratings agencies we have opted out of being responsible for our actions jajajaja pirats etc etc
2 - Good point must be an error as i have read many times we are finished.
2 Joe Bloggs
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a great start there!! but you forgot the one about:-
Oh our god-queen, The plastic b*tch will save us, she knows what she is doing.
and the good old favourite:-
Well Chile and Brazil are still on our side.
Other than that, you've hit the nail right on the head ( or in the coffin, depending on how you look at it!!! )
In today's Chile El Mercurio regarding the YPF robbery: UE advierte que Argentina sufrirá “durante mucho tiempo” las consecuencias por YPF
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said from the very beginning that Argentina would be downgraded by Moodys, S&P and Fitch to the same credit rating as Ecuador. It happened faster than I thought. Now just to get credit insurance becomes very difficult and will make international trade more expensive to conduct. Borrowing money now is more painful due to higher interest charged. Its a slippery slope...
There is more bad news coming as their finish and manufactured goods will be eventually sanctioned by the WTO and the EU. Grains and petroleum will of course continue to be sold without problems.
An interesting side note: In aviation news there is a report of Aerolineas Argentinas difficulty in purchasing fuel and ordering spare parts. Suppliers are asking for guaranteed payment...
Chicureo
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting, do you have a link to the story (spanish is fine). Cheers
@8 Chicureo
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Payment in which currency?
#9 http://www.emol.com/noticias/economia/2012/04/24/537127/ue-advierte-que-argentina-sufrira-durante-mucho-tiempo-consecuencias-por-ypf.html
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#10 International payments are made in Dollars or in Euros. Aerolineas Argentinas international flights require logistic services as well and the charges are typically for 30 or 60 day payment terms in Dollars. Argentine airline accounts are generally 120 days past due date. (I have a niece working for a large carrier and she reviews all the airline credit reports.)
Aerolinas Argentina is very close to losing landing rights in the USA and Eu for poor maintenance records. I would never fly them.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Love the picture btw, CFK and YPF are ours - hell yeah =)
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not flying with Aerolingus Argentinas if this is the case.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This story reminds me of North Korea who couldn't get spare parts for their planes, which is why they can only land in China.
Very interesting. I hear that the service on AA has got a lot better since it was taken over and (from my own experience) I can attest to that. I'm wondering now whether that is because the government is throwing money at it to make it work and thus incurring a great deal of waste...
Apr 24th, 2012 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 Chicureo
Apr 24th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the answer.
@12 Yankeeboy
Your not the only one.
Well, we avoid flying AA at all costs, but a very good Argentine friend insists on only flying internationally to Madrid or Miami on AA. The simple reason is that he buys an economy fare, shows up early at the Club Condor business class ticket counter dressed with a jacket and tie, presents his economy tickets with 2 or 3 crisp US$100 bills in the ticket sleeve, and of course to clear up the mis-ticketing error. The secret is to never try this on a fully booked flight and always choosing the right ticket agent. Try this with Lan Chile (now LAN) and they'll kick you out of the airport terminal...
Apr 24th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Negative outlook' it is what you expect when a country is run by a bunch of amateurs.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@15 The government is throwing money at it; $2m per day, however, this is entirely unaccounted for. I was speaking to an Argentine - former pilot - on a LAN flight from Buenos Aires to Santiago. He refuses to fly AA as he considers them unsafe. He also gave me an interesting rundown on how badly run the company is. Pilots fly approximately 20 hours per month whereas, say, BA pilots fly between 60 and 80 per month. He described it as a complete shambles. Just saying.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120424-709044.html
Apr 24th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding the above, is this coming directly from reserves or is it separate? Futhermore, is the government having to post collateral and, if so, what is the collateral. I've heard rumours that each time this happens the state agencies are being paid back in pesos/peso denominated bonds (obviously with no hedge). If this is the case, then it take it that my mother-in-law’s (very generous) state pension is slowly becoming worthless?
Elaine: Other than never being on schedule, their international flights are actually not bad. (Still sub-par, but very comfortable.) As they have to follow ITA-FAA-etc... regulations, they at least comply with the minimums. The scary flights are within the southern cone, with the worst being domestic flights in Argentina. My friend insists that Club Condor class is very nice.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No global credit needed, Argentina has a national Bank for loans, I think we all remember how much money was thefted by IMF and their allyes in Argentina, no thank you international community, every time we let IMF give Argentina money they gives it to just anyone and was sent to a swiss bank account, we will not allow for that to happen ever again, and I hope IMF isn't expecting the money back from Argentine, because that money is long gone and was never used by Argentina.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
“Every time we let the IMF give Argentina money.” Just listen to yourself. You go to the organisation to borrow money and complain when you get it! Christ you really couldn't make this up. You have just started a completely new complex. Any phsychiatrists on line, care to give this a name.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#23 I never give any consent trust me and I never got any money from IMF, this is why my taxes will no go towards paying the thefted cash by IMF. We will like to see the goods we got for said money, I'll like some accountability from IMF we will like to see what IMF payed for sowed can go and check if it's true they used it in
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina. We will not pay for obama's war against Muslims and libyans.
www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
Argentina is FINISHED jajajajajajajajajaja
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You or whoever voted for which ever government obtained the loan, gave consent. That what governments do, they excercise power on behalf of their people, that includes making economic decisions. If you never got any benefit from it, that's not the lenders fault, that's your governments fault. It's a classic case of refusing to accept consequences of your actions, blaming someone else.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your not paying for anyones war, it's called honouring a contract.
#26 RC I think that #24 is making a good point. I don't want to find my hard earned invested savings stolen away from me by some corrupt government either. I cannot imagine justification to seize legally owned assets. P.H. I feel for you.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#22 P.H. “No global credit needed, Argentina has a national Bank for loans...” THAT IS WONDERFUL NEWS! Congratulations! a few snippets condensed from a couple of articles from the FT explain one of the reasons why all companies in all countries need access to credit:
Fiat Argentina usually produces 700 vehicles a day at its plant in Córdoba, most of them destined for exports. That is good for Argentina’s manufacturing sector, which the government wants to stimulate, and good for the economy as the zooming car exports bring valuable dollars flooding into the country.
Last December, when the government halted the import of car parts as a part of its new currency controls, it brought the factory to a standstill as Fiat Argentina has a major problem getting parts suppliers to invest in new factories to supply demand. Small businesses here not only have a hard time accessing credit – medium-term and long-term loans are very rare – but Argentina also has a problem of competitivity. Argentine turbulence and a growing sensation that next-door Brazil is a safer bet are obstacles to investment, he says. “A nice bumper plant, say, would require investment of $10m to $12m. Businessmen prefer to invest in Brazil because of security.
2 Joe Bloggs
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The S&P are worse than useless and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.
Are you still celebrating your oil prediction? Do you need an anti-gas medicine?
@21 I haven't tried their international routes. I try very hard to fly with the better airlines but that is not always possible. I have to make a lot of long-haul flights and I like my little luxuries to compensate for having to be stuck in a steel capsule for 15+ hours just to get to work.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have had to fly AA on domestic flights. There is no alternative for some destinations in Argentina and, you are right, it is grim. Even allowing for the endless delays, people trying to take a wardrobe on board as hand luggage and the near fights over seats, the aircraft are very basic, people are crammed in and seats uncomfortable. I try not to think about the safety issues.
28 Marcos Alejandro
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I assume you believe that Argentine Government statistics are more credible than S&P then?
@27 Chicureo. Sorry, but I'm having a hard time in accepting the hypothesis, that an organisation that loaned you money, is responible for your economic woes.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your example using the car plant is spot on. As I've said, my grasp of economics is minimum, to say the least, but even I can see that. I class it has good old fashioned common sense. If you and I can see it, can you explain why, other, clearly educated people on these forums can not. Perhaps that's an unfair question, be interested in your thoughts though.
#26 we will like to see the amont loaned and we will check with real facts, if said bill doesn't have a actual s service or tangible goods, I am afraid said loan can't be payed back, thanks what accountability is. We will pay for facts not tricks. The days of trading gold for mirrors are over, and by the way no body voted for the military and their loans read history before talking.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
@24 Actually, yes, you're going to pay. One way or another, you're going to pay. You're going to pay big-time.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 Yes, of course they are. But then so are you. On S&P's side is the facts that they don't murder people like you do. They don't invade people like you do. They don't start wars like you do. They don't tell lies like you do. They don't break laws like you do. Any thoughts on who deserves contempt, slimeball?
33- I am sure you are talking about Britain, good description.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Historically I am amused by the irony of you bringing up things that have been stolen from people (on mass) and gold being exchanged for mirrors. You are being ironic, aren't you?
#33 10 years and counting when exactly do you expect payments?? Keep us posted and make sure you put the bill in your next time capsule?? Don't forget it because the bill it self as a historic record is worth more then any cash IMF will ever see from Argentina. Maybe you still believe in santa! ...who knows !! what Your problem is.!!
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#31 I was being sarcastic with PH as I was alluding to Spanish savings being stolen by CFK. Of course we should always blame someone else for our self caused problems. It would be too silly to accept the consequences of our own stupidity...
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If you and I can see it, can you explain why, other, clearly educated people on these forums can not” The automotive assembly business is healthy and demand is robust. As long as the factory workers are employed, their contributions to the economy are alone enormous. What happens if the 50% exported of the Fiat production stops? What happens if Fiat Argentina loses its capacity to import as well as pay for the parts needed in assembly? High grain and petroleum prices are wonderful for the Argentine economy, but when you start messing around with availability of credit and access to international markets for finished goods, you really should pay attention as it affects a lot of people worldwide.
@33 Your junta went 3 decades ago. Are you saying that you never obtained a loan since then. 3 decades and you still drag them out at the slighest opportunity to justify your behaviour. In this country if you obtain a loan with the intention of never paying it back, it's called fraud. Is that how you want everyone to see you as, as a nation of frauds?
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#38 Actually it's a brilliant idea...
Apr 24th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tomorrow I'll visit my banker and explain that the mortgage it took out with them 20 years ago was a poor decision due to my ignorance of the local property market and certainly the bank cannot hold me accountable because I'm now a much wiser and mature person. Therefore how can I be held accountable for the bank's foolishness in loaning an ignorant client who no longer exists like me... unless of course, it was a conspiracy to take an unfair advantage of the situation. If fact, this clearly shows the true fault is solely the responsibility of the bank, not mine. Therefore, I am not responsible and I will not pay. Furthermore, I think I should sue the bank for damages...
RC it's not fraud, it instead is simply a reflection of the Argentine mentality.
@39 Chicureo. Stop it, my sides are aching. Your grasp of the facts is astounding, your logic is brilliant. I can not for the life of me understand why I could not see it in these terms. I defer to your expert knowledge, you've just created an entirely new subject, can I suggest you call it the study of e CON nomics.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to say, you can't really criticise the UK's economy, as we're one of the only countries with a AAA rating, which is great considering we have pretty steep cuts to our services right now. This shows that we know how to run an economy FAIRLY efficiently, but not perfectly. Anyway....
Apr 24th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also, S&P are a respected agency from all countries across the world, and don't 'ally' or 'favour' any countries as it is against the Regulations Act.
@34 We don't murder anyone, unless they think they can try steal from us (like 'old' Argentina). It is our right to drill the oil around the Falklands, not Argentina. If you are Argentinian, then here's something for you; You will never have the Falklands because we are the UK and you are Argentina. Try work out what I mean with this, it's pretty obvious... imbecile.
* Algeria opts for more expensive U.S. wheat
Apr 24th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0* Argentine chamber says gov't policies hurt investment
BUENOS AIRES, April 23 (Reuters) - Algeria has rejected Argentine wheat based on quality concerns, exacerbating worries about lack of investment in the South American country's key farm sector, industry chamber ArgenTrigo said on Monday.
Grains powerhouse Argentina is one of the world's top suppliers of wheat, but local farmers say government policies have depressed the prices they are paid, leading many to cut back on crop technology and other investment.
“Algeria solicited wheat but did not want to buy any from Argentina due to problems with quality. They are opting for more expensive wheat from the United States instead,” said Santiago Labourt, head of Argentine wheat industry chamber ArgenTrigo.
“This, of course, is a worry for us,” he added.
Growers have feuded for years with President Cristina Fernandez over her state-centric policies. Last week she took the first steps toward nationalizing Argentina's top oil company YPF. The move is expected to further cool foreign investment in Latin America's No. 3 economy.
“Lack of investment, which has to do with uncertainty about government policy, is having a negative impact on quality,” Labourt said.
A state official was not immediately available to comment.
Farming is a key source of income for Argentina as the country's economy slows under the weight of global sluggishness and government-imposed currency and import controls that have hurt confidence.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/23/argentina-algeria-wheat-idUKL2E8FNE8R20120423
Sign of things to come?
#40 Thank you RC.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#42 Very interesting article.
News today is Spain's borrowing rate nearly doubled in a short-term debt auction as investors fretted over the euro zone's determination to deal with its debts. Italy raised nearly €3.5 billion in a short-term bond sale today but at sharply higher interest rates amid fresh concerns over the euro zone outlook.
the Bank of Italy said.
The Spanish treasury said it raised €1.933 billion but the timing could hardly have been worse, with financial markets slumping on concern that Europeans are wavering in their commitment to austerity.
Only Greece in the EU has a financial rating lower than Argentina.
Costs lots more to borrow with a low rating and Argentina will have to face reality.
@43
Apr 24th, 2012 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Umm... stight difference. Greece depends 100% on borrowing to survive even for basic expense. Argentina has not borrowed in 3 years and self-finances.
Greece and Europe are straigh-jacketed by an overvalued currency, and do not have central bank powers.
Europe has been in recession for 5 years, Argentina has been growing for 10 years and perhaps only now may finaly have a sharp slowdown.
Apples and oranges in regards to whom is affected more by borrowing rates or ratings. Europe depends on borrowing, even the UK. Argentina has not for some time and does not now.
That may change in the future, but that would be speculating.
#42 Looks to me like the Algerian dictarors are fools and puppets of the West, having largely insulated themselves from the Arab Spring to go on ruling in the same bad way as ever, and now embarrasing themselves by buying from the imperial master even when its more expensive, and spurning the Third World solidarity their late great President Ben Bella promoted in the 60s
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#44 Tobias Completely agree that its apples and oranges. Also, the Greeks live on borrowed money and would have to leave the Euro in order to devalue their currency.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also, Argentina is in an economic boom.
Despite that, I'm speculating that KFC is running out of capital. That she will eventually need financing and China may be her new sugar daddy. I'm sure China will be fair on rates.
Argentina isn't self funding Tobias.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It borrows from the World bank which Spain and many other countries now are saying they will veto. It also receives massive amounts in development aids including the rather bizarre UK funding of Argentina to the tune of 27M.
Anyway Argentina currently owes the WCB over 5.6 billion at the moment.
https://finances.worldbank.org/facet/countries/Argentina
#44 tobias the UK never borrows money from the IMF, ERDF or the ECB. We are an independent country when it comes to our finances. Argentina are in some very serious debt, like most other South American countries as they have to repay the loans they took out years ago. Also, want to retract the rubbish I wanted to say about Argentina before, as I was annoyed at that time lol. I don't know, your country may be all right to live in, but your government is just crap and full of corrupt officials, and CFK is and idiot for trying to put trade sanctions on the FALKLANDS, since she thinks they're her countries' islands. They're not, history proves it and I'm sure that's how most sane and non-plastic Argentinians feel.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think if push comes to shove CFK would rather cut spending rather than borrow (even if Argentina could which is very questionable). She would be going back on her “debt-lowering” platform which ha been a pillar and recurring speech talking point. And to be honest, I doubt her pride would let her do that, and have to talk to the IMF or private creditors again.
People overplay the Argentina-China potential. Most in Argentina even in the government do not trust the chinese, and the Chinese probably aren't too happy with CFK due to some trade restrictions.
#45 Algeria despises the USA. They would not be buying American grains unless it was not in their best interests. We all know that growers cheat on QC specs and it seems the Argentine quality was inferior.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#49 I agree with Xect, that Argentina is not self funding, but for the sake of avoiding argument, let's address the private sector, Using my Fiat Argentina example, the automobile industry is highly cash demanding. With the assembly of 700 cars a day, parts must be always available on time. Imagine an Argentine fuel injection parts supplier, who needs to import certain components of the injectors from Italy. Even though it would be the same supplier to Fiat in Italy, a line of credit would be required which would be expensive under the current situation, AND IS! My point, we' re all inherently dependent on credit ratings.
Regarding China, as they have an unending need for soy and petroleum, it seems a very good fit. ...So was Venezuela for political support...
#27 the problem with the car industry is not loans but as you said it yourself self sufficiency and without that we couldn't compete because to compete you have to be self sufficient and that is not possible when you depend on others.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#35 I wish I was being ironic but I couldn't be more factual with IMF organized theft or the EU mob witch has dug a hole for the whole of EU. The theory of debt is just more debt or how do you think bankers make money? Am not going to sit here and explain the contacts or proses for accountability witch haven't being met yet and chances are that some of the contracts will never see day light.
#51 (& #49) The moral of the story is: Height and foot size is a state of mind.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is an Argentine actress: Elena Roger, dimunitive, barely 5 feet tall, who was told she was too short to be a lead, is now stunning Broadway audiences as Evita.
From the NYT Review: Dramatically collapsed on the floor…Ms. Roger, barely 5 feet tall (152 cm) and weighing 98 pounds, seems not so much an actress as a limp collection of rags. In London, where she played Eva Perón in the 2006 revival of “Evita” that took her from unknown to sensation, great writerly phrases about her size were tossed out in the press: “Shoulders narrow as a bar of hotel soap,” “five foot nothing half feral child,” “ineradicably tiny.”
Then you later watch Ms. Roger in a dress rehearsal at the Marquis Theater, in a number with the pop star Ricky Martin, who plays her acerbic critic Che, and Michael Cerveris, as her husband Juan Perón. Evita is sexually maneuvering her way up Argentine society, and Ms. Roger has seemingly grown three feet.
Perhaps, we too in this forum, no matter what our shoe size is, and overcome our physical disabilities. With that said, let's assume you are the head of a Argentine middle class family with a real need for a car. You choose a domestically assembled Fiat Palio and pay for it with a combination of cash and a loan. Don't you think sometimes it makes sense to depend on others?
28 Marcos
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As predicted huh?
I'm content with the oil and gas situation. Thanks for asking.
Oh, and I must say how nice it is to hear that CFK's government is again talking about replacing the LAN link with the propaganda link. She cares about our well-being. A few of you nasty Malvinistas could take a lesson from your leader. She cares about us Falkland Islanders but you say all sorts of bad things about us.
“People overplay the Argentina-China potential.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most in Argentina, even in the government, do not trust the Chinese,
and the Chinese probably aren't too happy with CFK due to some trade restrictions.” Tobias #49
China WILL buy up the debts; this is their strategy across the world.
Then, very politely, but very firmly, the Faustian pact will be called in.
China accepted her Faustian pact when she accepted the role of workshop for the whole world; her debt-call is to absorb the raw materials of the world - and much of its food - to make it all happen. She is as much tied into her straitjacket as are the rest of us.
We will all scream in different tongues, and all for different reasons, but we will all, eventually, scream as the world becomes a different place and the humans in it become different people.
[Yes, its been a bad day]
Tobias, Arg gov't is far from self funded you are completely delusional. The only way CFK ha managed through the last few years is by outright theft ANSE, BCRA, BANCO NACION Union Insurance , YPF...what's left? NADA only devaluation...
Apr 24th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@54 Whenever I have a really bad day, usually far from home, the next day is always one of the best. I wish the same for you.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#52 I'll take up your assumption and build it up with more facts, Fiat palio comes from EU chances are that if things keep going the way they are people might not be buying from EU giving Argentina the chance to build their own car industry, Torino was a great car at the time, but we buy Italian, india solved the problem by building a tata and now they have their own nuclear defence program, that my good friend is what I mean with self sufficient, what you view as isolation i consider it as bing independent, out of all people Argentine's should understand that if politicians can't be trusted we shouldn't allow for them to have credit lines on Argentina's behalf, because as they target us now we will pick up the tab and blame.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
They have had a nulear capability for some time, same as Pakistan. I take it you are refering to their lates test of a long range balistic missile. Now all they have to do is marry them both, that is produce a vialble weapon capable of being fitted to the missile and that is not as easy as it sounds.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahaha!!! As if Arg needs EU and USA for trading.... Keep your dirty cash, the Chinese are investing heavily in SA and the fact that SA is reclaiming it's natural resources back makes the western world... obsolete :)
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Prepare for the new world order, no more cheap resources from the “3rd world” AND global economy moving towards China... Did I mention China is investing heavily in SA? :)
59. Hate to burst your bubble but there was almost a coup in China last week, their economy is faltering and they have 100s of ( some deadly) riots a WEEK! They have provinces on the verge of breaking away. China is not going to be Argentina's Savior.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you did.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Newsflash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
China's investing heavily, everywhere.
Personally I'd not like to be at the mercy of China.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At least with the EU/Europe/USA etc they all have moral standards and laws that regulate what is acceptable.
With China, if they own you, prepared to be a slave to them and also prepare for the most violent response should you try to do to one of the companies what you did to Spain/YPF.
China is also probably the biggest bubble economically in history.
@60 You wish! Uruguay only increased their trade with China from 96M USD in 2000 to 1046M USD in 2010 (1050% increase), car factories are being planned in SA by the chinese, AND we are selling them resources at a fair price. Sorry to be the one who bursts the bubble, but the only economies that are faltering are the Euro and US. Heck, even Africa is on the rise (yes, thanks to the chinese). This is way too much fun, I hope you made your Hummers edible!
Apr 24th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is the lowest rating, that can be given,
Apr 24th, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if CFK receives this rating, will she qualify fro the peace prize .
.
@62 US and EU have moral standards? You mean those very same standards that made them lie to the world in order to attack a sovereign country for the single purpose of sacking it from oil? Same moral standards that sent Dan Mitrione (CIA-agent, executed by Tupamaros-guerilla in Montevideo) to teach the military how to torture with water-boarding and electricity? Or the same moral standards that built the Schools of America (some still active to this day), a place to train local military in the beautiful art of torture and killing? Mayhap it's the moral standards that led USA (read CIA) to finance military dictatures all over Latin America? What moral standards are you talking about???
Apr 24th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about the moral standards of Kidnapping 30.000 people and throwing them alive out of aircraft over the South Atlantic.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66 Yes, thanks, I forgot about that part... You are aware that that was the work of the CIA backed junta, aren't you? Puppet leaders paid by your “moralists” to kill their own people. But do not worry, the Kirschners have made justice and the USA-and-Europe-friendly right-wingers responsible of those acts are all in jail :)
Apr 24th, 2012 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cheers for proving my point!!
Here we go again, Junta,Junta,Junta. Change the record it's getting boring.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, if you bothered reading history before commenting, I wouldn't have to repeat myself. As a matter of fact, CIA has confirmed their actions in Latin America, you can read all about it.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was easy in the 70's, your regimes could torture, kill, invade and still lie to your own people, calling the “3rd world” countries for terrorists, socialists, narco barons and so on. Nowadays, in the days of technology (read internet) the truth is faster than your lies.
You really should read a book...
There is only one reason why the Junta ended up in prison. It had nothing to do with the Kirschners. It had everything to do with the British Armed Forces. If the Junta had succeeded in 1982, they would have been treated with adulation. Your schools, streets and football leagues would bear Galteries name, his statue would now be gracing your public squares and thousands more of your people would have disappeared. All of which would conveniently be forgotten. The 2nd of April. would be a national holiday in Argentina. Celebrated as the day your glorious Junta returned the sacred Malvinas to the Argentinian motherland. The history books that your so fond of mentioning, would tell a different story. That my deluded contributor to this forum, is the sad disgusting and unpleasant truth.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@70 You are utterly confused, mate. The attack on the Malvinas 1982 was an act of idiocy from a fascist regime, an act that only served to take the life of young argentinians. If it had anything to do with the removal of the regime, it was not the sake of the brits, they did naught to help the opressed argentinians, they only attained to their own interests. No, if the war of the Malvinas was crucial for the removal of the fascist regime, it was because people finally said enough is enough.
Apr 24th, 2012 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My glorious junta? I'm the son of a Tupamaro...
No worries..! Rating Agencies concern only to right wingged countries.. so.. who cares about S&P? Maybe tomarrow Mc Donnald will say we have the worst beef on earth... how scarry!! hahaha!
Apr 25th, 2012 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Simple alternate view, to would have happened had you won. There is no way the Junta would have been punished. History is written by the victors and I'm afraid they would have done a lot of writing. No matter how much you try to deny it, the British defeat of Argentina, was, you know it was, instrumental in the removal of those murdering facist bastards, masquerading as Argentinian patriots. That's the opinion of this son of a British Infantry Sergeant Major.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Boy, Kirchner's really doin a number on that country.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is not a hard concept, Argentines: look at any example in the world, what happened when they isolated?
And an even SIMPLER concept: do you think the way to become more competitive/advance is to stop products more competitive than yours from entering your market and throw money/preference at the uncompetitive companies? ....OR work harder/better and produce more competitive products/prices?
Common sense. The most successful countries in the world are the most open, and allow all foreign investment/foreign products. They stay competitive, instead of going back in time to the stone ages like Cuba/North Korea/Iran.
Argentina, like Greece, can't handle this concept, cause they don't wanna work hard or come up with original ideas to become more competitive. Nor are they willing to give up their corrupt/insane “queen”.
#66 Very well said
Apr 25th, 2012 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0#67 Well you started it =)
#72 hehehe =)
@73 You seriously believe that the argentinians would accept the fascist regime had they won the war against the brits??
Apr 25th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seriously believe that they would accept all the desaparecidos, murders and opression in exchange of those islands? For the Latin Americans it was a choice between pest and colera, and the only thing we regret is the loss of 649 young argentinians.
You suffer from the belly-button complex, thinking the whole world spins with you as an axle. Stop tapping yourself on the shoulder, the brits did NAUGHT to help the opressed argentinians, as you have never done anything to help anyone except your own interests.
@74 Another one with the belly-button complex, you think that being isolated from the western world is equal to being isolated from the rest of the world.
SA have all the resources they need, and the market is big enough for Arg to outlive any trade ambargo the western world can come up with. Add this to the fact that China doesn't give a damn about your cries and all of the sudden you lot are on the loosing end. At the end of the day, Europe is in more need for the SA natural resources than SA needs Europe technology.
@ 76 SA has lots of resources, true, but Argentina doesn't play well with its neighbors. Brazil, Uruguay, and Chile are experiencing REAL growth, while Argentina's just pushing inflation and soon to crash all over again. Argentina doesn't get along with ANYONE, not even its own South American neighbors.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0@76. I never said the Brits did anyhting to help the Argentinians. Even you have got to agree that the 1982 conflict paid a part in the down fall of the junta. The Brits were the other side in the conflict, so yes I do think they contributed to their downfall.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I do think politics in Argentina would have been different had the Junta (recovered your Malvinas.)
And this is the reason for the Argentine government to force multinationals to keep the money in our Banks in Argentina or pay fines and taxes for allocating Argentine resources. Let's hope the world can see that Argentina doesn't need high interest loans nor do we need to be threatened or exploited, Argentina needs a sound constitution that actively protects our interests and national Bank that provides all the capital needed to become self sufficient. Trading in US dollars or EUROS should be illegal and considered as theft.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So thats the answer then? protectionism. bye, bye, WTO, Bye bye G20, bye,bye, US/EU trade. I should not worry about trading in$US or £E, because there won't be any to trade in. Never mind, there's always the Peso.
Apr 25th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol, trading dollars in Argentina practically IS illegal. In fact, it's created a large black market, just like any time you make anything illegal, it just continues untaxed and unregulated.
Apr 26th, 2012 - 03:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0I got 4.6 for my dollar at one of these very black market shops, versus the normal 4.3 in the legal ones, while I was in Mendoza ;)
S & P ...?
Apr 26th, 2012 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0the institutions ,once upgrated notes of Bears-Stearn....Iceland...90 years of Argentina....2010 years of Greece....and so on.....
Guzz , Not sure how old you are , but the Junta had a a surprisingly high approval rating , especially in 1978 when Argentina won the World Cup
Apr 30th, 2012 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0( more bribery and corruption , paying Peru to lose ).
You forget , ordinary people like security and order and a stable economy .
Last week , you could not get across BA for piqueteros , crime is getting out of hand and the economy is about to collapse.
The last time it was like this was in 1976 when your parents brothers in arms were exploding a bomb or killing a policeman every ten minutes
95% of Argentina cheered the coup of March '76 .
The military then went and fucked it all up by behaving like common thieves and murderers and trying to get out of their economic mess by invading the Falklands .
It really doesn't matter who runs Argentina , it's all about bread and circuses .
Problem is , Cretina is running out of bread , so she has to make the circus more entertaining .
Today , they raided Videla's house ( who has been in prison for at least 1 year ) and found some “ secret papers”....As if he would keep them at home .He would have kept them in the boot of the Ford Falcons found at Puerto Belgrano .Well , that's what my aunt Hebe tells me .
#83 ”especially in 1978 when Argentina won the World Cup
Apr 30th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0( more bribery and corruption , paying Peru to lose )“
I saw something on that recently, it wasn't financial payment apparently but co-operation on the torture and murder of dissidents. Vile regime, I'm so proud of Nestor and Cristina for digging up their legacy root and branch.
”The military then went and fucked it all up by behaving like common thieves and murderers and trying to get out of their economic mess by invading the Falklands“
And the dissapearances, and childsnatchings that still scar society and ruin lives, and the economic reorganisation that led, via Menem, to 2001, and so on...
”Today , they raided Videla's house ”
Good, the bastard can't be punished enough in my opinion
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