MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Mercosur “needs to be reborn” with an honest integration spirit, says Cardoso
Brazilian former president Fernando Henrique Cardoso said that Mercosur “needs to be reborn but with a real integration spirit among its members” leaving behind such ambitions as the mirror of the European Union. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesArgentina is a product of colonialism, conquered by the sword, most of the natives killed and infected by disease, their land taken from them and worked by imported African slaves, oversean by imported European colonials. The African's who made up 50% of the population would themselves completely disapear from Argentina between 1850-1900 in what could have been a chilling fore runner to the disareances of the Dirty War in the 1970's when an estimated 30,000 Argentines were raped, tortured and murdered, many more were held illegally in detention camps and tortured. The true figure for the dead could be as high as 100,000, no one knows because there is little official documentation and most bodies were dumped in the sea.
May 08th, 2012 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina took land from its neighbours in numberous wars , civil wars and land grabs - Paraguay, Uraguay, Chile. Today Argentina despite the changed political landscape is still a nation characterised by uber nationalism. The claim to the Falklands was surendered in 1850 but reserected in 1941 by a fascist junta, which inc Peron, they thought their friends the Nazi were going to win the war, the Falklands looked easy picking.
In 1982 Argentina was under the latest succession of a series of fascism military junta's. Their hold on power was looking precarious, in deperation they sort a war, Chile looked like a good victim, they already claimed lots of land and were ignoring the international tribunals that had ruled in Chile's favor. But then they changed their mind and invaded the Falklands. Today the war is romanticized by a nation ruled by a kind of cross between a Neo-Nazi uber nationalist and a Charvesta Revolutionary uber Marxist. The only thing missing is the land reform. Maybe that's for later? But as few natives remain, maybe they'll just ignore their rights... God knows they always have. An entire culture replaced by a European one. Entire languages destroyed.
Timmerman should take time to read about his country's history.
“If we really want to reactivate Mercosur we would need a far greater integration effort and not feel satisfied where we stand now” Brazil is unhappy, very unhappy...
May 08th, 2012 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think the Argentine political establishment is a cross between the Nazis and the Mafia.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur is going nowhere with the political setup in Argentina where the inmates are running the asylum.Brazil is going to have to make a choice one day between propping up the loonies in Argentina or getting onboard with the rest of the international community.The EU has already made that point as has the Financial Times.
Argentina needs a good smacking on its national bottom to get back to the real world and I would not be surprised if the one that administers it will be the country that thinks of itself as the regional hegemon;Brazil.
“The real world” = Argentina dominated and subjugated by EU/US/Latin America/China.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't like the government in power, but I like the idea of frienship with enemies in sheep's clothing even less.
I can recommend Cardoso's biography. If only Argentina had intelligent politicians like him.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Mercosur “needs to be reborn” with an honest integration spirit, says Cardoso”
May 08th, 2012 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0First step then will be to kick Argentina out. You'll get no honesty from them.
Lolz and Lolz at “Mercosur” and “an honest integration spirit” being used in the same sentence.
May 08th, 2012 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cardoso left office hated, the opposite of Lula's triumphant exit, because of the massive poverty and inequality he didn't address. My guess is he's just speaking for himself and his ideology, not Brazil
May 08th, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's arrogance and illegal moves are causing problems for Brazil. Arg is making it very difficult and MercoSur impossible to have their own trade agreements.
May 08th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur will be gone shortly Brazil will wind it down quickly then sign FTA with USA and EU. The talks have already begun as soon as they are far enough in the break will happen.
This is why you are hearing bits and pieces coming out of unofficial channels right now. So it will be easier for the general population to absorb.
@9 it's not a bad thing either way. Creating bilateral agreements with India is a lot easier than trying to get India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan to agree in order to have a combined agreement with the bloc.
May 08th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur has no reason to exist.
Ah, divide and conquer. The true ant tried British f'ing way.
May 08th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If “Mercosur” ex-Argentina signs FTA's with you, Europe or the North Americans, that's their right. I would not be opposed to that. It does not have to break-up Mercosur. The intra-Mercosur agreements can still hold. What would change is that EU/US products would not be allowed entry to Argentina from the other countries without paying tariffs, even though those products may have entered other Mercosur countries tariff-free.
12. MercoSur doesn't allow for bi-lateral trade agreements between members and other countries.. That is why it will be disbanded. BTW Brazil and Uruguay asked the USA to start negotiating an FTA in Cartagena. The ball is in motion ...
May 08th, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want to establish a multinational economic zone, first you should have complemental industries....where we here live and see the problems of it in Europe as same as in Nafta, Mercosur...........
May 08th, 2012 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In other words ,there are no having the principal technical informations to establish and move these kinds of vast organizations yet. !..and the Economy can design them not the Law. !
Uhh... treaties can be changed.
May 08th, 2012 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But again if they want to negotiate with you, fine. Good luck to them, there gonna need it.
It'll be like North Korea, sat between Japan, Indonesia, China and South Korea all happily trading.
May 08th, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina will just be sat there. Doing nothing really, except dining on their shoes.
The fact Argentina wants nothing to do with you really itches at you doesn't it Greek. The fact that somewhere in the world you and your country are irrelevant makes your skin chip. Poor thing.
May 08th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How does it feel not being required?
Doesn't itch me at all that they want to live in complete isolation. The less interaction that homo-horribilis has to do with the rest of humanity the better. All I ask is that they don't invade nice places any more, like the Falklands, which in my head is a pure and peaceful place like Hobbiton in the Lord of the Rings... and KFC is like Sauron sending her Orcs to annoy the poor Hobbits... and the British are like the good elves stepping in with the Ban-hammer.
May 08th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and that tower with the big eye is like rosa casada
@17
May 08th, 2012 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will give you credit for original writing. Lord of the Rings is after all the last decent piece of literature to emerge from your society.
@18 What about Roald Dahl's the BFG??? What about “The Temp and the Tycoon” from Mills & Boon 100th Birthday Collection???
May 08th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously... your book import ban has had you missing all the best things in life.
I don't read modern English language lit from 1960 onward. It is all overhyped, commercialized. You can't tell what is good from what is bad and I have no time to figure it out by trial and error, specially when I can read Cervantes, Borges, Vargas Llosa, Neruda, or Marquez in Spanish (you never will), Hesse, Kafka, and Goethe in German, Coelho in Portuguese and Voltaire, Victor Hugo, or Sartre in French... plus true English authors that had to EARN their success like Twain, Shakespeare, Hemmingway, Wells, or Huxley (not like today which is a complete sham).
May 08th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20 FYI. Samuel Clemens was American.
May 08th, 2012 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#20
May 08th, 2012 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you read in 5 languages? Very impressive...
and that includes “true English authors” Twain? Hemmingway?
Gosh, golly and gee your a real bright educated fellow aren't you?
So much for South American unity. First they tell the RG's to fuckoff at the recent SA summit and now this. Basically the RG's are being given the bums rush by people in their own continent who have had enough of their pea brained, childish politicians and antics.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what a laughable risible country Argentine is.
22. He reads a lot but can't do simple math or understand basic economics.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ever seen UBA, the buildings are literally falling down, there are Marxist signs and graffiti everywhere, no toilet paper or doors in the bathrooms AND THAT IS THE PREMIER UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY!
@21 and 22
May 08th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your attempts at outwitting failed. I think I made it clear by naming several Spanish LANGUAGE authors that I was reffering to language, not country of origin. Same applied to my list of “ENGLISH language” authors.
I had shifted my comment from British authors to general english language lit, which has been destroyed since the 60s by over commercialism, making what is good or bad impossible to discern.
I'm far more educated than you Chichureo. Not because I am smarter, but because I studied harder and longer than almost all other people.
Razor's Edge was a good bit of English literature, as was Operation Corporate, One Hundred Days, No Picnic, Green Eyed Boys and the yet to be published Run Argy Run. Once I've finished the manuscript I'll let you all know. It's bound to be compelling reading.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina The Outcast:
May 08th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2012/05/137_110558.html
Written by a former member of the Brazilian government and reproduced in Korea of all places.
“I'm far more educated than you Chichureo. Not because I am smarter, but because I studied harder and longer than almost all other people.” What a pompous ninny!
May 08th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being educated and smart are two totally different things as we can all plainly see.
As I have said before if you were so smart you wouldn't be living there. You'd be able to figure out how to get yourself out of that mess and into somewhere civilized.
25 tobias
May 08th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am all for studying hard, but that counts for nothing if you do not have the intellect AND an open mind to appreciate WHAT you are doing / reading.
@28
May 08th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Racism is never a sign of smarts either. Mendoza is very civilized, thanks for your concern. And cleaner than most cities you ever visited. Tupungato is filling up with European and Americans (wealthy ones). They are rich and you are not so they must be smarter (taking the liberty of assuming that is what you believe given your obsession with money), and thus make smart choices. Which must make me smart by default since I chose what they chose.
http://foro.univision.com/t5/Practicando-en-los-Foros/MDZ/m-p/443362424#axzz1uIGxi2Ea
I agree educated does not equal smart. I only know I am educated, I don't claim to know if I'm smart. I'm not afraid to let others judge that.
You can't be that smart or educated if you can go onto an international news forum and announce you're more educated than everyone else there.
May 08th, 2012 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you conduct a poll on the educational attainment of posters before you made such a sweeping statement? .....or did you just make it up?
I reserve the right to claim my education because I worked for it and most importantly, it was Chichureo who challenged my education.
May 08th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't it lovely that you single me out for my announcement without considering the environment in which it occured? Think about it.
@tobias
May 08th, 2012 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you read Borges. An intelligent man who hated Peronism and left Argentina to live in Switzerland. He would leave again if he were alive today.
The problem is you people from around the world try to make it like Argentina is some sort of unlivable version of Sudan.
May 08th, 2012 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only people that believe that is any one with as warped and turbid mind such as the person making the statement, and most people here qualify as this website attracts fervent argie-haters.
The real world is another matter.
A friend of mine told me that her daughter works for the customs department in Argentina. Shes an accountant and apparently its a very well paid job that many accountants want to get into. I-m not suprised when Argentina charges 50% import tax on most imports. Where does that %50 go? Ah yes... its Argentina.
May 08th, 2012 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, most people know that Argentina is a middle income country that is struggling. I have said in previous posts that Argentina is a beautiful and wealthy country. The fact it is repeatedly ruined by poor leaders is sad for those many Argentines, that unlike you don’t have Chilean maids. I feel for all the Argentineans who are condemned to 3rd world poverty in a wealthy country. I think what irks a lot of people “from around the world” is that Argentina contributes nothing, but slings mud at everyone.
May 08th, 2012 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36
May 08th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am firmly middle class. I don't have maids anymore. I used to have them because in the 1990s with the dollar=peso peg even people from Chile came to Argentina as maids, let alone the famous “paraguayan nanny” invasion. The Bolivians pick the crops and the Peruvians mix the cement. THat's not saying Chile is bad, it was just a fact of life. People wanted to earn hard currency and Argentina was the place for that decade.
It is the opinion of you and those that think like you that Argentina “gives” nothing. Check music from tango, to nueva cancion (born in Argentina), to rock en castellano, to electronic music. Check the shelves of any Spanish language bookstore, check your supermarket shelves for cereals and breads; check your cable channels in sports channels, news channels, women's channels...
Check teenager programming shows in Spanish where they come from. Check the movie channels of Spanish language movies where many come from. Check the sports pages for footballers in Europe, for rugby, latin players in the NBA, field hockey, tennis players...
Check the science pages for nuclear medicine, space satellite technology (INVAP), vision technology (here in Mendoza Zaldivar institute), hydro and eolic tecnology (here in Mendoza too IMPSA).
Check the pages of fashion magazines, both the clothes and the fashion models...
Check the wine cellars around the world in the last 10 years how they have changed.
Anyway. No country is perfect much less Argentina.
@37
May 08th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You misunderstood what I meant by giving. I would not dispute most of what you said above (cable being the exception, there is nothing here on cable from Argentina). All countries produce great people. Soda are one of my favourite all time groups.
Come on... CQC, El Ultimo pasajero, TyC sports, Utilisima, Operacion Triunfo, Chiquititas, Verano del 98, Rebelde Way, you telling me Chilean youth do not watch Argentine teenage programming? Argentine tv shows are either played or their rights bought all over the world. You have never seen a show from Argentina or a Chilean show based on an argentine original??
May 08th, 2012 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are show all over the world on Disney, Sony Channel, Telefe Int, or Nickolodeon Int, or Cartoon Network in all those countries. You want to hear argies speaking in French, Russian, German, Italian, and English?
Argies Deutschland?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29Ts2b_yE&feature=relmfu
Argie italiano?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29Ts2b_yE&feature=relmfu
L'argentine francais?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29Ts2b_yE&feature=relmfu
Буремний шлях ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29Ts2b_yE&feature=relmfu
ISRAEL?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF29Ts2b_yE&feature=relmfu
And on and on and on...
If there is one thing Argentina is one of the world leaders it is in teen programming and in commercials.
With the exception of CQC , which I like very much, I know none of these shows - that is probably my ignorance on the matter. However, if giving is synonyms with selling TV rights then the UK is most certainly one of the most generous countries in the world. But that kind of generosity doesn’t rid the world of polio or feed the starving, which was kind of my point about Argentinean (and SAmerica in general) egocentrism.
May 08th, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@40
May 08th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True. Neither does Idol shows or Top gear.
Correct.
May 08th, 2012 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 While I'm talking to you in your flak jacket and kevlar helmet, I remember reading about how in mendoza, the police go into children's parties and shoot people because it was too loud.
May 08th, 2012 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/100034/policeman-detained-for-killing-a-teenager-in-mendoza
Just to think, with all that £2.99 Tesco malbec swigging going on, and all those trigger happy cops, it must be a fooking nightmare.
It makes sense why you live in your basement talking to maximo on skype.
Just when we had reached some consensus.
May 08th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like your sharp wit GreekYoghurt.
@43
May 08th, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Loud parties when you are trying to sleep are annoying.
OTOH, innocent brazilian immigrants just walking on a London subway station and being hunted down with two dozen bullets, or a man under custoday “suddenly” being shot leading to massive rioting all over a country, is far less logical.
Can you just imagine what might have happend if that poor man had been Argentinean!
May 08th, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46
May 08th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd say those police officers would be adressed as “sir” by now. We know the British attitude for argies.
I guess getting shot at a loud party in Mendoza by a police officer is better than being shot by police officers in Buenes Aires.
May 08th, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/100177/football-players-crime-this-is-obviously-not-the-police-force-we-want-scioli-says
Have they said yet when La Campora are going to be armed? They were supposed to announce it this weekend.
lol
May 08th, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48
May 08th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about finding out the facts before you say anything? It might help titivate your image from utter fool to somewhat foolish.
Mendoza police is very rarely involved in cases like that. Its the first one I remember in a while. We don't have the social street protests in Mendoza like in other parts of the country, in fact they never happen.
I don't know if La Campora is armed. I know your flat is probably reading to go with some good SAMs and patriot missiles above your head. I hope you don't live in the last floor... might get a little singed when the Olympic bombing season starts.
& 47
May 08th, 2012 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're not Argentine !
You're trapped yourself by idle chatting !
Nonone can comment beginning in 03: 10 am until 06: 19 pm GMT from South America !
To be educated and to be smart are not same things.!.you're not clever..
@51
May 08th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 06:19GMT? Darn you are a lazy lazy sloth. I never wake up at 2:19 in the afternoon... I'm done with studeis by then.
@52 don't worry, I don't think any of us fine British folk will be coming to Men-doze-a to find out, because that would involve flying with 1920s Aerolingus Maximo and no amount of £2.99 Tesco Malbec is worth that horror.
May 08th, 2012 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@53
May 09th, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You actually thought you were invited here? Only cosmopolitan Europeans allowed, meaning only those from the mainland, and Ireland. Scotts can be an exception.
#20 Tobias:
May 09th, 2012 - 02:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0There ARE some very good authors post 1960 AD...
First: I never said I had a better education than anyone else at this site, but there are several posters we can all agree are in competition for who's the worst educated...
Second: An English author vs. an author in English can be confusing.
Your quote was “...plus true English authors that had to EARN their success like Twain, Shakespeare, Hemmingway, Wells, or Huxley”
...Then I asked if you read in 5 languages...
Third, Max is Guzz, one of the contestants for dumber and dumbest...
Anyway, you are certainly not poorly educated, just poorly informed on certain geographical subjects...
I'm just too lazy to check my writing right now, I'm busy reviewing other stuff. You are newer than me here, but other people will tell you that when I first started here I composed in such a language that most people had a difficult time grasping my statements. I still have that capability, I just choose not to make usufruct. My vocabulary was so massive most natives of English here admitted they had never seen those words before. And since I responded in real time just like I do now, they knew I could not be using any thesaurus as one must really understand the signification of the terms and used them in apposite context.
May 09th, 2012 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0See, I'm starting to do it again... using fustian language. I will cease now.
“If there is one thing Argentina is one of the world leaders it is in teen programming and in commercials.”
May 09th, 2012 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lol, yeah, the ones you were watching and made you brain dead.
@58
May 09th, 2012 - 02:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0That was supposed to be a thoughtful response? Bless you.
56. I have found that people use big words when they are dumb. They want to appear smart but alas they are not....
May 09th, 2012 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I know the big words and you don't. So since the only thing that matters on the internet are words, that would make words have the value of gold.
May 09th, 2012 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which means I have mor gold than you. Sorry.
“If there is one thing Argentina is one of the world leaders it is in teen programming and in commercials.”
May 09th, 2012 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Like this memorable bit of propaganda for kids: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eh1B4a-RMA)
I guess according to the Argtards, If you're going to ruin people's minds, you better start young. Something they got from their SS parents.
61 GreekYoghurt
May 09th, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can see why The Mad Bitch thinks they are creative when you look at this video.
No wonder the young Malvinistas think as they do with this poison being dribbled into their mind every day. Difficult to see, as adults, how they can ever accept the truth or reality from here.
Had to chuckle at the old Mirage though.
The saddest part is that YOU believe you have not been subject to propaganda in your lifetime.
May 09th, 2012 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are to be pittied there, Greek.
61
May 09th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow, that is scary!
Thank you for that Greek you have shed new light on this for me. I had no idea the brainwashing was that extreme.
I knew they brainwashed their kids like we do here in Chile to some extent but that is ridiculous. Here in Chile as a child, like all school children, on the 21st of May we have to march to a military band, saluting the flag in honour of the battle of Iquique. And we are also taught that Antarctica belongs to us.
Where can you begin with that video?? That the British army didn’t have night vision in 1982? That no aircraft carrier was hit? Do the Argies really not know that a numerically inferior force routed them in very little time? The facts and lessons from the Falklands war are taught in military academies from Chile to China and I am pretty sure they are not swatting up on Argentine military competence.
Argies, the Brits had 24 harriers at the start of the war and I think they had 23 at the end. The Arg air force was decimated (approx 60 planes lost). The Argie land troops were routed and the navy fled. Why would you not teach the facts? I am not saying don’t celebrate acts of heroism, but don’t teach children rubbish. After this war every sensible country in the world scrapped conscript armies as they realized cold war planning was lacking if the British could this with 6 battalions (that’s 3000 men) and no strategic bombers at the other side of the world.
This is a bit like the Japanese denial. The Germans teach their children what happened in WW2, as a result they have moved on and get on fine with their neighbours. The Japs on the other hand teach lies to their children and as a result constantly bicker with S.Korea and China. This seems to be the Argentinean way.
This war was not about sovereignty, it was about Argentina’s ambition. The Arg high command have admitted that after the Falklands they were going for the south of Chile. They would now be inventing nursery songs about how the Chileans had usurped Tierra d
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