MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine Vice-president and business partners charged with embezzlement
Argentine Vice President Amado Boudou, his girlfriend the journalist Agustina Kampfer, his personal friend and business partner José María Nuñez Carmona, and the Belgian citizen and businessman Alejandro Vandenbroele, were charged on Monday of embezzlement by Federal Prosecutor Jorge Di Lello. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI guess CFK wasn't getting a big enough cut.....?
May 15th, 2012 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Corruption? In South America? What next, ice in the antarctic?
May 15th, 2012 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 02 Boovis
May 15th, 2012 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0and everyone else must be thinking “Well, you took your time!!”
Usual politicians' views in valid of all countries. no surpise !
May 15th, 2012 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont believe it...an RG being corrupt
May 15th, 2012 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0wait for the trolls to google british MP scandals to distract from the story.
RG government is very similar to Vicki Pollard ''google it'' a character lampooning the attitude of a lot of our yooooof that nothing is there fault.
So therefore the Reichmistress is renamed Vicki Pollard
He must have made CFK and the fat boy Maximo mad. Perhaps if he gave them a little bigger cut (i just want to wet my beak) all would be well.
May 15th, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah ok, he has been caught. the real proof of the pudding is whether any charges are brought against him......... My suspicion is that the prosecution's case will, at some point, collapse, leaving him and the rest of his cronies to walk free.
May 15th, 2012 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Of course. Boudou just has to pay the right price to the right peoople. I am sure he has enough funds, the question is if he is prepared to pay it.
May 15th, 2012 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey, you got to admit, the girlfriend is pretty and he has probably enough dirt on Queen Botox Evita to keep him safe from ever going to jail. Crime seems to work out well in general foe smart Argentinians....
May 15th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Time will tell whether Boudou is being persecuted for deserting his class (he was a banker for decades) to join the popular (in every sense) government, or whether his old banker's habits have died hard. But here's a brain teaser for all the haters - if the Argentine judiciary are free enough to charge the VP, and Cristina is as corrupt as you all say, why no charges against her??
May 15th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9 You're having a laugh, to call the girlfriend pretty (she's alright I suppose) while heaping scorn on Cristina's far more glamorous and beautiful looks!
Much as I despise her I'm delighted to see her clamp down.
May 15th, 2012 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK Politics is generically corrupt through the “Lobby system”, so I just hope she isn't clamping down in order to propagate her own political corruption.
10 ,11- ohhh ohhh teacher i know the answer to that one
May 15th, 2012 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because she is corrupt and she controls the media and has influence in the law courts, like threatening journalists that make negative or true reports about the economy. Basically she rules thru popularist propaganda and lies, bit like Hilter....with a little of the ruthless Stalin...
Night of the long knives stylee...
Am i correct??? yippheeeee
@10
May 15th, 2012 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the truth ever comes out The Botox Bitch will have instigated this. And failing all else she will blame, the Junta in 82, Britain or the Falkland Islanders.
As others have said Booboo will have failed to give the bitch and her pup a big enough cut of the proceeds.
Perhaps as a penance for being caught he could use the ill-gotten gains to start paying off Argentinas many debts. In default to 27 countries wasn't it!!
10 British_Kirchnerist (#)
May 15th, 2012 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 15th, 2012 - 12:29 pm
Charges were brought against Kretina and her ghastly husband, the judge Oyarbide was bought and paid for and the charges were dropped. But her patrimony went up by 800% in the last 9 years which doesn't look too good for when she's kicked out.
@ 9
May 15th, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You babbler........
First you talk about.... Operacion Colombo....Londres 38 ...
of course you know them........
Don' put one's oat in a you don't know country Argentina....
“Don' put one's oat in a you don't know country Argentina....”
May 15th, 2012 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love this sentence and plan to use it in future conversations.
Does anyone know what it means??
@ 16
May 15th, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you other name of him(her)?
It is not British phrase...
I am certain someone can easily understand waht i mean !
For all i see here is full of Twitter kids.!
@12
May 15th, 2012 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm hoping that what you say isn't true, but is intead the actions of a woman coming to her senses. However it's likely you are right.
I wonder if she is in her menopause, a dangerous period for any man, never mind a nation.
Don't put one's oat in = Don't involve someone else's doing
May 15th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think Tipsy means “oar” as in “Don't stick your oar in my business”
May 15th, 2012 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@20
May 15th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, the r and t are next to each other on the keyboard, a simple typo, but very old english nonetheless.
Meanwhile, back to the story. This is just the tip of the iceburg; next it will become public knowledge that one of his “partners” has an arrest warrant out from Florida.
May 15th, 2012 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 018 Moriety
May 15th, 2012 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I wonder if she is in her menopause” Good grief, The Mad Bitch is 60! She has probably been in it from her early 50s which explains a lot.
And you are correct about it being a dangerous period - my wife is 64 and she STILL gets hot flushes!
@20--@21
May 15th, 2012 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right just a tipsy touch on
but the correct phares is ..... “ put one's oar in ”.....not stick
Should women presidents be required to submit hormonal tests and be removed from office if they are medically deemed impaired by their stage-of-life condition?
May 15th, 2012 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll love to hear women's opinions. Lsolde?
Boudou vs Magnetto. Sounds like the next X-men film.
May 15th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2
Don't tar us all with the same brush.
@ 23 Chris
May 15th, 2012 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I had no idea she was that old, oops!
Well, In that case she can thank her surgeon, I thought she was late-40's, as I am; so I just can't put the finger on her bizarre behavour then.
She is a renegade and out of control but doesn't seem to realise. Does she ever watch or read the news?
The poor dear is bi-polar. It probably started with menopause but is agravated by the stress of having to make deciscions.
May 15th, 2012 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 tobias.
May 15th, 2012 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well the UK had Thatcher who within a few years had destroyed our Coal mining, steel milling, ship building and other heavy industries. In the space of 36 months towns went from full employment to utter ghost-towns.
Most of us at the time thought the unions were out of control as they were. But she destroyed so, so, so many peoples lives in the way she tackled the unions by destroying the jobs.
I wonder if the Argentine President views Thatcher with admiration. If she does the Argies are shafted.
@29
May 15th, 2012 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's what Menem did in the 90s with the factories in Argentina... do you understand why Argentina was lost for a generation to the capitalist open-market system? and why we have K economics now? Knomics have little to to with Thatcher, that was Menem.
I favor more open market mercantilism, but with gradual change, not sudden change that sends millions to the unemployment lines because the economy has no time to absorb the job losses.
@British Kirchnerist
May 15th, 2012 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about having a go at defending your queen against the comment made @14 which is typically held view by the better educated and better informed in Argentina?
I love the way you lot have absolutely no problem with your leaders being very rich and pursuing big money and business deals whilst spouting nonsense like -we are all in this together- its a fight we all face- there are hardships facing us but we work together for a solution etc etc etc.
@31
May 15th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the rest of the world pushes enough, you will rally ALL OF US to CFK.
I know it is hard to believe but when you push a nation too far with threats and criticism, they will tend to circle the wagons, even if they disagree with the government.
@29: “I wonder if the Argentine President views Thatcher with admiration. If she does the Argies are shafted.”
May 15th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, since Maggie recovered the Falklands for the UK and KFC is a hardcore malvinist I doubt this very much. KFC's role models are rather the likes of Perón, Evita, Rosas, Che Guevara, Castro and Chávez, which means we are pretty much shafted anyway. :-(
@32
May 15th, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that is a very true point.
I am not sure how much the world is pushing and how much CFK is pulling all on her own.
We've been shafted since J. D. Perón first drew breath, and we'll go on being shafted until the last peronist draws their last breath.
May 15th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 CFK government corruption? What a surprise. I am truly shocked. A nd no charges against CFK! Presumably because she still has the authority to cancel investigations and charges. Like she did when someone questioned her US$7.7 million profit in only 8 years.
May 15th, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 Only applicable to places with woman presidents. Places with doxies, mankies, sluts and whores are not eligible. Shame eh?
But hey, who could doubt CFK's ability to look like a glamourous hag. And such a beautiful whore. How wonderful to be an absolutely incomparable slut that looks like she's serviced the male population of an entire country. Not argieland. No males. Just poofters.
So sticking together regardless of the cause is better than doing the right thing? Doing the right thing when all is against you is a true act of bravery.
May 15th, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CFK could be a humbler president but shes as greedy as the next. The president of Uruguay lives pretty humbly doesn't he? In that aspect alone regardless of his policies hes far more socialist than CFK.
CFK is a Champagne Socialist- as Tony Blair is.
37 Tobers (#)
May 15th, 2012 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 15th, 2012 - 04:23 pm
Pepe Mujica is, without doubt a true socialist, a patriot, and a truly good man.
Kretina is not even a champagne socialist. She is a business woman who pretends to love “the people” whilst really only exploiting them. If she were a real socialist she would try to create jobs for people instead of giving them subsidies so that a whole generation is being taught NOT to work.
@ 30 tobias and @31 tobers
May 15th, 2012 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most rational people will say that Capitalism has gone very rotten in the last 20 years. Blair was a right-wing idiot in my opinion, but I'm a left-wing pro-old school capitalism supporter. (Those days when you even had a company help-line in your own nation and the person really did speak English as their first language, and the company actually paid taxes like the workers have to)
The world's nations have got a lot poorer due to this awfull modern capitalism, but your President seems to be going off on a weird angle. I just cannot understand what she is trying to achieve.
When I say Champagne Socialist I mean in it in purely derogatory terms.
May 15th, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its an oxymoron.
If someone has more money than someone else there is an inequality. If someone has more money than 99% of the population ala CFK and Tony Blair whilst forever spouting we are all in this together- its a fight we all face- there are hardships facing us but we must work together to find a solution etc etc etc. then thats just obscene.
BK et al dont seem to be able to defend the incongruency of CFKs vast wealth and her socialist ideals.
Come on chaps! At least try!
40 Tobers (#)
May 15th, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 15th, 2012 - 04:52 pm
That's because it is indefensible. Not even BK can find a way of defending Kretina's ill gotten gains except by side stepping the question.
@40 Tobers
May 15th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We all have to accept inequality, thoughout human history its existed, it's just when it grows to the obscene bloated levels that it currently is, that ordinary folks take notice and start to get angry. Entire nations, never mind the citizens, have been shafted over the past 5 years.
@39
May 15th, 2012 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with everything you say about CFK, but I would disagree with you on capitalism.
Capitalism is alive and well, just not in most of the G7.
There are plenty of countries were capitalism is still improving living standards.
@43
May 15th, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot agree with you on that, nor would the majority of EU citizens.
The greatest Anglo-American and certainly the greatest British leader was Winston Churchill who had (something!) like this to say of capitalism in the days it actually worked well:
“Capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the
others.”
Rattle pates !
May 15th, 2012 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I doubt on all your sex,even women can't gossip as you do it.!
Are there anyone who gossip on Elizabeth II here ?
@44 No he said, “ Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”.
May 15th, 2012 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What CFKC has is State Capitalism.
@46 Elaine
May 15th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oops!
Well, I still like the comment, but a shame the great man himself didn't say it. As to democracy in the UK: Two right-wing parties shafting the nation from the moment they open their eyes each morning- “New” Labour or Tory. I despise these self-serving cronies in equal measure.
@44
May 15th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct. I am sure most EU citizens would not agree, that is my point. Capitalism is struggling in the EU. It is being drowned by gov debt. This is not the case however in many emerging economies, where it is doing just fine and living standards are increasing.
@45 Sorry for going off topic.
| 48 |
May 15th, 2012 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elizabeth II is my dreams woman ...what can i do !
I prefer Elizabeth I - as Cate Blanchlett.
May 15th, 2012 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But what can we do about it? Capitalism has failed on every level and every measure over the past 20 years. Untill us lot on the planet find a better model we are stuck with a system that is no longer useful to any government with a conscience. There really is nothing to replace it with as communism was crap as well.
Possible that to establish a new “” Economic Model “” actually ..but you have to have a reliable intelligence service firstly.
May 15th, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@51
May 15th, 2012 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I could be wrong on this, and it is not a dig, but you should look outside Europe more.
Capitalism has not failed. My own country has made relentless advances for example as have many others.
If you go back 20 years, there were only a handful of countries that could make good stuff, cars, aeroplanes, so on. These countries had an easy ride in the post war period, so they could afford welfare systems that have become increasingly bloated.
Now the problem is that a whole other group of countries are catching up and they are not being crushed under a mountain of debt (they have a whole world of other problems yes). The world is so much more competitive now and simply, Europe can no longer afford the lifestyle it has been living but the truth is far too hard for the political class to deal with so little will be done proactively.
The solution for Europe is to get more competitive.
@53 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just returned from the Greek island of Thassos. They are so angry right now. Europe and America shelters Tax-havens for companies, who avoid paying taxes and so our hospitals close down, but these are THEIR customers. Do they wish their customers dead young?
Yep- I have a Euro viewpoint and I initially came here to defend the Falklanders and their right to NOT be a part of the Spanish-speaking colonial South America, BUT, a few of you have made really interesting posts about your own nation, rather than the Falklands crap some come out with and it has been interesting, and a learning experience to read of your nation.
Thanks mate, and to Tobers et al who have made this forum so interesting.
Oh how the mighty have fallen ...... last year's golden boy Boudou has been caught with his hands in the till, shame really since he wasn't La Campora or a Kirchnerista & gave the middle classes some hope that CFK wasn't out to get them all
May 15th, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Corruption is still the biggest single problem in Argentina & Boudou thought he was untouchable, they will try & oust Di Lello like they did Rafecas but I think CFK will let him sink or swim on his own
Let's see what excuses they come up with now ...
@54
May 15th, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0FYI my country is Chile and the mainstream here support the Falklands too.
@55
May 15th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep mate,
We need to sort out the lobby system back home before we start throwing mud. Our system is disgraceful, so far, at least the Argie political scum have been caught. Over the last 24 months very few of ours have been, because of the “relationship” [corruption] between our media and politicians.
All parties want to “own” the BBC, all get angry that they wont yield, and one reason it is the last international news scource I trust.
Was it not some Argies that said, you lot are corrupt,
May 15th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pot-kettle-black-
Enough said.
.
| 56 |
May 15th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9 Chicureo enunciates he is from Chile like you !
some questions impelling him (# 15 )what about i guess Chile related “” Operacion Colombo “” and “” Londres 38 “”
Could you tell us what they are !?even if you were probably heard of it.
@56 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Okay and thank you for suporting the Falklanders right to be free-born men and women, it's what we would wish and expect of our own children.
| 56 |
May 15th, 2012 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are waiting on your precious arguments
If you are really from Chile !
Max mate,
May 15th, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are such a spammer. Tell me why you think the Anglo-saxon English Falklanders should suddenly be yours. Given time they might choose Chile, but never your nation, IF they chose to give up independence. Uruagay has also looked after them well- and lets no pretend, they are a small, nope. tiny, population who refused independence from Britain in 1947 as they knew the Argies would eat them, and the British Foreign Office has always been shit towards them.
Some of your neighbours are bigger and stronger now, so if *fantasy scenario* the Falklanders and dependencies decided to quit and go to Chile what would Argentina do?
@ 57
May 15th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's face it, politicians everywhere are corrupt & are only in it for themselves, the days of politicians serving the public are long gone
Why is it that everything runs smoothly during summer recess ???
62- Why would they want to choose a country to own them. But i agree strong links with Chile could be developed but the Falklanders would i imagine could be an independant country. I would think in the end its all down to the decisions of the Falkland Islanders what country they want to be allied to , if any. At the moment its the UK and we will support them as long as they wish it to continue. I agree UK government wanted rid of the problem prior to the 82 invasion, but i could never see a UK PM selling them out now. Dont believe Cameron is to bothered either way but hes not ever going to sell them out.
May 15th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0| 62 |
May 15th, 2012 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i agree with you.........
i think the Chile option is closer to Islanders than others
recently At April 5 opened the installation of Chilean Naval Base “” Fort Aguayo“” (by spending of US ~ 500.000 us$ for its construction)will be ready to evacuate the islanders , in spite of told that this installation will be used for training in Military Operations and Urban Terrain (MOUT) likely on UN peacekeeping operations.....
it may well be better used to evacuate
May 15th, 2012 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the CFK brigade back to spain and the rest of europe where they come from,
and leave the real inhabitants alone,
but no chance in that, as CFK just want her very own little empire,
but as long as we are there, the falklands will not be part of it,
silly argies .
@ 62 and 63
May 15th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep, only now are we discovering the corrution of our politicians so I'm not prepared to mock Argentinians who are suffering the same. They are people just like me, and we share similiar worries in our short time on this planet.
@63 especially:
Tiny nations have NO influence in our modern world, the worrying signs of the break up of our own union that gave us the name of Greater Britain is enough.
Large nations have clout, small nations do not, it's really simple now. Look at Africa- colonial borders that keep them busy fighting as the borders take no account of the tribal boundaries (natural borders) they always had. So busy with corrupt politicians on European lines they cannot stand together to fight the USA and Europe- whose politicians will always ensure they stand very divided to sell goods.
Wow, I've gone off-topic in my own reply. Sorry :)
@Max
May 15th, 2012 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you asking me about DINA operations??
I know we all go off topic a bit but you are way out there.
| 68 |
May 15th, 2012 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0becouse you name “” Condordito “” referring “ Operacion Condor ”was made in Argentina oriented,doesn't tell on about Chile .. for all i know “ Operacion Colombo ”“ was made in Chile as apart of ”“ Operacion Condor ””
69
May 15th, 2012 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mi name Condorito refers to the comic book character “Condorito” a very famous Chilean comic. He is a lovable “roto” always chasing the love of his life “Yayita”.
Nothing to do with Pinocho and his dirty little operations.
BTW, the Chilean base is not there just for the Falklanders, that is a bit paranoid:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/06/content_10463924.htm
We also rescue Argie boats.
And Brazilians:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-12/06/content_10463924.htm
That's a good thing, no?
Just watching the board it is so clear which nation is friendly and close to the Falklanders- It it Chile now, historically Uruguay supplied them.
May 15th, 2012 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If they chose independence they would neeed the support of the Chilieans, or to join them.
At times like this I just wish an actual Kelper would come to the board and say what THEY think, not us lot, speaking about them.
| 70 |
May 15th, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thats not my opinion...
on May 7/2012, 20 Human Right Organizations sent a “ open letter ” to Defence Minister Andrés Allamand related about these military bases what they are for especially about Concon base.
Back on topic, I really hope they go after Boudou..... it would restore some faith in the system & show that everyone is accountable. However it will probably be dragged through the courts for 3 more years until the next election when CFK will have already replaced him with new golden boy Kicillof
May 15th, 2012 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well it's happy hour so off for my corrupt pint of Antares scotch ale :-) :-)
cheers mates
@71
May 15th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Moriety,
The problem with Chile in the Falklands issue is that the gov comes under great pressure from Argentina to show unity. For Arg it is the number 1 item on their foreign policy list, whereas for Chile it is not a big issue, so it is in Chile’s best interests to at least play along with Arg.
If/when oil becomes exploitable in the FI things may change. Chile is not rich in hydrocarbons like Arg so it would be really sensible for Chile to offer infrastructure to bring oil ashore. It will come down to what is more important SAmerican unity or a deal with the Brits on oil.
I too would like to hear the islanders thoughts on Chile. I read in the papers that islanders are using the clinica alemana in Stgo as their hospital of choice. Is this true? Or is the Chilean press exagerating a bit?
70 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love Condorito. He is- like you say- a totally loveable rogue. One of my favourite comics and cartoons. I love Chile also.
You might be able to tell me. What ever happened after your president met with his Argentine counterpart early this year. He came out and briefly stated that he supported CFK. Then CFK said they were going to make a joint statement to explain the extent of the joint Chilean / Argentine position on the Falkland Islands but I never heard anything. There was talk that LAN would stop operating into the islands but that has never happened either.
@73 Manchester Lad,
May 15th, 2012 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enjoy the pint mate :)
@74 Condorito
I dunno mate, there are people here with super knowledge on Argentina and the Falklands. I do know the geographical continental basin for oil includes both nations but that Argentina ripped up an agreement with the Falkland Islanders BEFORE it was discovered.
I hope the Falklanders act with good grace (unlike the Argie Govt) and work together to share the assets. Both with be richer, just a little less rich if they took it all alone. :)
74 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's true, we do use Clinica Alemana; I have had the fortune (or misfortune) to have to use it myself. I spent 3 weeks there some time ago and I was totally thrilled with the quality of care I received there.
75
May 15th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the question is “whatever happened to your president, full stop?”. He is a lot of hot air really. I think, maybe, as a businessman (owner of Lan) he might have found his balls and drawn a line at stopping the flight. I actually think CFK didn’t push the Lan flight cancelation for a couple of reasons:
1) She might still want to keep that card for another day.
2) It would clearly make the FI the victims of Arg bullying and not help her cause
There was probably a significant UK diplomatic effort too, but who knows.
73
Why stay on topic when Max is revealing a Chilean conspiracy to take over the Antarctic and the FI.
Max,
You have me interested now. Where can I find the open letter, I would be interested to see what is being said.
Actually I am not in favour or Chile’s position on the Antarctic. But as pointed out before at least the Chilean Navy is there to rescue international shipping when they get in to problems. Come on Max that has to be a good thing, right?
@77
May 15th, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Joe- you're a Falklander aren't you?
What is your view on the Chilians. I've never seen anything other than support for you guys by them, including the conflict which was never an official war.
79
May 15th, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Generally we love Chile and Chileans. Obviously we have lots of Chileans living amongst us and we have a very close relationship with them. I have some close Chilean friends both in Chile and in the islands. They add a fantastic cultural richness to our islands as far as I am concerned and I know lots of other islands feel the same way.
@Joe Bloggs,
May 15th, 2012 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope you are feeling better.
It is a great hospital. Recently ranked as one of the best in LatAm. Just as a matter of curiosity - feel free to tell me it is none of my business - but how does payment work. Does the FI health service have an insurance policy for the whole island.
@Joe
May 15th, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice one mate,
Do you think one day you'd ever want to them? Given how shit the Foreign Office has treated you lot over the years?
& 78
May 15th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Andrés Allamand archived this letter.
The “ open letter ” says that
“ ..US lacks the moral quality to teach peace operations.......we don't forget that in 2009 the Sato Cano base in Honduras ,with US military personnel was used to implement the coup d'état against fomer President José Manual Zelaya Rosales [ 2006--2009 ].......”
81 Condorito
May 15th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm fighting fit now thanks mate. I have a lot to be thankful to that hospital for. They are also the ones who got me hooked on Condortito! The Falkland Islands Government simply pays the bill for services rendered. It's pretty expensive but more effective than us trying to equip our own hospital in Stanley with the ability to do many more things itself. A few years ago the number of referrals to Santiago had ballooned a bit excessively and that has had to be reeled in some but generally anyone who needs it gets sent for specialist treatment to Clinica Alemana. Some still get sent to the UK also.
Now before the Malvinistas get excited, I must stress that it is FIG that pays for the medical treatment and NOT the UK government or UK tax payer.
82 Moriety
I think my children will die as old Brits but perhaps they'll be around to see the first discussions of an alternative. Definitely never Argentine but maybe independence. Who knows. Personally I think we'll remain British for as long as they'll have us and I am confident that is a long long time. Antigua has done it fairly recently and I'd say we'll be a wealthier nation than them in a few years time.
@80
May 15th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Joe, that was meant the read “Joining the Chileans”.
Max @83 going on about local politics where two nations actually have a border, unlike the Falkands, allowed me to post again. Thanks Max :)
Back to the Falklanders Joe- How do you see your self and where is your nation heading, or is it just “day-to-day” due to Argie stress?
85 Moriety
May 15th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The added argentine attention is on people's minds but it is nowhere near as big a deal to us as it seems to be to them. Honestly, I have lots of friends and family who don't monitor Mercopress like I do (I am a device junkie!) and they are not talking about it all the time or anything like that.
Despite what the Malvinistas would try to have you believe, we are happily and freely choosing to be British and we believe the UK government when they assure us that they will defend (however necessary; not just militarily) our decision to remain so.
Whenever I get told by CBFSAI that he is confident that we are protected militarily I believe that it is said sincerely so I think we'll be British for a long time yet.
Joe,
May 15th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good to hear it and good for FIG. I have had to pay the bill there before and it is not cheap!
Max,
So the US has a training base in Chile. What is the problem? American Security contractors (mercenaries) can’t get enough Chilean special force soldiers. They love them. Good in the desert, good with altitude. At US$350/day it is no wonder so many have gone north. For Chile, the soldiers come back and we have battle hardened special forces for free. All very unethical but no need to get all paranoid.
If the USA wants to invade Chile, they don’t need a little shed and some monkey ropes in Concon. They have 10 carrier groups. Just one carrier group on its own could demolish the entire Chilean air force and navy if they wanted to.
It is always so easy to believe in conspiracy theories instead of actually thinking!
Dinner time here so I'm off. Thanks for the interestin chat folks.
Mrs Bloggs has rung me twice now to come home for dinner so I must go before I'm in the kennel. Catch you all later.
May 15th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@86 Joe
May 15th, 2012 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Okay mate, thanks for the appraisal :)
Antigua has decided to stay British? Carribean, hot women and sunshine, what on earth am I doing here......lol
I actually met a Guernsey couple on holiday, and this lot are very independent, but still feel strongly British. He described Guernsey as ”a nation of 60,000 piss-heads (drunks) clinging to a rock”. When he said that I knew his roots were still north European British :)
Our sense of humour and attitude will always keep us close.
I think more and more the difference is that in Latin America politicians are investigated by default, since they are presumed corrupt before declared pious.
May 16th, 2012 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the so-called first world of politics, people still are gullible enough to believe their politicians are bathed in probity, by some grace from above.
If they actually did some investigating, the sad truth would emerge.
well said Tobias. i totally agree with your childlike oversimplified thought pattern.
May 16th, 2012 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Keep up the good work.
@91
May 16th, 2012 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm glad you finally understand.
90 - Dont be silly RG's are not responsible for anything. Nothing is ever the fault of the RG's always someone elses. If RG polititians are corrupt then we must tell the world that they are more corrupt its that simple. RG's must never except responsibility for their own actions as this is against the national character. So please dont critise the corrupt bankrupt thirdworld country that is Argentina as none of it is their fault.
May 16th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@93
May 16th, 2012 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t rise to it. Tobias is only prevaricating.
Either that or he really thinks that is the case, which is not his fault.
I have been lucky enough to study and work in the UK so I know where you are coming from.
In my opinion 90% of Brits (read northern Europeans, Americans, etc) are generally honest. So at work you can leave the stationary cupboard open and let people take what they need when they need. At the warehouse, if a technician needs a spare he goes to the warehouse, asks for it and it is provided.
SAmerica doesn’t work this way. If you leave the stationary cupboard open, it will be empty by the end of the day. If a technician needs a spare, his line manager needs to approve it. In addition to that you need an additional level of control in the ware house to make sure the ware house manager isn’t stealing. It is incredibly inefficient but necessary.
It works like this becasue in SAmerica deceit is at best seen as normal human behaviour and at worst seen as a virtue. I don’t know why, but that is the way it is. As a result we are extremely incredulous. So when we see you lot generally believing what you are told and generally with faith in your justice systems we think you are gullible. I have lived there and seen that this is not the case. The high levels of trust make everything in society work better.
94 Condorito (#)
May 16th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 16th, 2012 - 02:16 pm
Good to hear another South American speak up. I'm sure you're right as far as Argentina is concerned, but is it the same in Chile? I haven't been over for years, but I remember staying in an “Alojamiento” in Mehuin where there were no locks on the doors and absolutely nothing was touched in our room.
Part of the SA problem is the confusion between nationalism and patriotism. We Argentines think of ourselves as patriots when we are really acting as nationalists, I've always found that Chileans are very patriotic and not at all nationalist.
Simon,
May 16th, 2012 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Small towns are less of a problem, but in general yes, Chile has a huge problem with petty theft. In the work place everything has to be locked down or it will go. That kind of crime is economically motivated. There are still large areas of social exclusion that produce large quantities of criminals. But the bigger problem here is more deep rooted, and that is that regardless of social class people are egotistical. By way of example, I live in a good part of town, a lot of my neighbours have dogs. In the morning they open their gates, their dogs run off and shit wherever they like. They don’t care. Chilean society is like that.
Chile has made amazing progress in the last 20 years in economic terms and now the focus and political debate is moving to education, which has to be improved if Chile is to keep moving up. But I think, the egotistical attitude also needs to be addressed at a national level if the country is really to move forwards.
Condorito,
May 16th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess living in a small town tends to scew ones way of looking at things. I'm sorry to hear that Chile suffers from the “Argentine disease” as well. The only way to beat it is to raise the level of income of the whole of society. At first sight that appears to be a socialist statement, but really it is only through capitalism that things get better for everyone, but this also needs a strong government overlook to make it work. Our Government is regulating everything it can but not from the point of view of making things better, only from trying to keep control of what they want to steal.
”In my opinion 90% of Brits (read northern Europeans, Americans, etc) are generally honest“
May 16th, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then the dishonest 10% must be really influential, as they were the architects of the economic model based on complete fabrications, lies, fudged figures, subprime loans, derivatives no one understood (even the ”northern” europeans), and sent the USA and Europe into their current sorry state.
(considering what they used to be)
97 Simon68 (#) Which Simon are you? The one from Junin de los Andes or the one from Ameghino?
May 16th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simon,
May 16th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I totally agree.
Another “Argentine disease” I have noted (I have an Argie neighbour and I deal with argies everyday through work) is total paranoia. The whole world is against Argentina. And in general they believe the most ridiculous conspiracy theories. My neighbour, during a morning chat, told me the other day that the reason cars continued to use petrol was because oil companies, usa, bla bla bla wouldn’t allow it. Right, so Europe, the continent that makes the best cars, has the best technology and is completely reliant on imported oil just goes along with this. I pointed out that there are lots of technical options, but there isn’t a feasible solution yet. If there were, the Germans would be exploiting it and exporting millions of zero—carbon cars to China. It is as simple as that. But reason is lost.
Where does this paranoia come from?
It is true that oil companies have prevented other sources of energy.
May 16th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's not just argie paranoia, it is well founded and worldwide in nature. Don't give us that much credit.
The world is against Argentina. That reality is irrefragable.
Of course the debate lies in whom is at fault? Argentina or the rest of the world? Surely, Argentina to a large extent. But the rest of the world just has a huge ego so when argieland doesn't go along in goostep like everyone else, we booboo their pride.
101
May 16th, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tobias,
Oil companies have no sway over car makers and car makers have no vested interest in the oil industry. As soon as a car maker has a good alternative to an internal combustion engine they will exploit it.
Why would the world pick on Argentina?
102 Condorito (#)
May 16th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 16th, 2012 - 05:34 pm
I honestly don't know where the paranoia comes from, but I recognize it. I can only think that it has been aquired from having a long history of totally useless governments which have ended in disaster. This perhaps has led the average Argentine to expect the worst from everything and everybody.
Well, we know why today. I'm objective enough to see that.
May 16th, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the 40s, because Argentina remained neutral in WWII, and the Americans specially could not stand the fact that an inferior latin nation stood up to them and refuse to go along (remember when they were attacked by the Japanese, they immediately “demanded” all of the Americas declare war on the Axis... that's how egomaniacal they are). Since Argentina was the only one to refuse, they threw the book at Argentina, from economic sanctions to forcing Europe to stop buying Argie foodstuff, they even tried to get Brazil to attack us in 1944.
All because a country wanted to stay out of WAR. That's the Americans for you.
The Europeans mainly because they think they have sort of ancestral right to Argentina, since so many of their “citizens” left there to here. Which is why whenever there is some sort of situation with the “dissapeared” Europe pays so much attention and wants to get involved, yet there were “dissapeared” in all LatAm dictatorships but they don't but in there for the most part (they do with Chile but nowhere near like with Argentina). Typical Euro arrogance.
But basically, the fact is Argentina tells others to their face that they are hypocrites and to f-off, and they don't like it. They don't see us as equals, even if we behaved well, they see us as inferior and as such always expected to dictate term in bilateral relationships with the region. Argentina refuses so their ego is boobooed.
104
May 16th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That all seems a bit implausible.
No latam country joined the usa in the war.
Pinochet was more of a hate figure in Europe than the Argie junta.
Allende stole all the usa’s mining interests in the 70s.
The DINA assassinated a political opponent with a bomb within view of the Whitehouse (a US citizen died in the blast).
Chile almost went to war with the usa over the Balitmore crisis (Arg offered the usa Salta as a base to attack Chile)
I could go on. But the long knives aren’t out for Chile. The world is with Chile not against it.
Why?
104 - Hit the nail on the head
May 16th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'even if we behaved well' that admitting RG's dont.
Grow up as a country and start excepting responsibility, the world doesnt quite see Argentina as the battling former colony, fighting biggoted europeans and standing up to the world in a proud manner.
Just look like a bunch of muppets!!!, the world can see what Kircher is doing by controlling the press by punishing journalists that write the truth about the failing economy. The rest of the world also recognises that the Falklands Issue is a useful distraction and popularist ralying point for a failing govenrment.
Condorito and Simon68
May 16th, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know these girls?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovp6QodjhLI
& 105
May 16th, 2012 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your arguments are from red herring popular media side.
Allende was the Army backed man.. i doubt his dying was suicide and killed by Army.
“Allende was the Army backed man”...
May 16th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0..enough said.
This is enough for up to ............!
May 16th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0¡plop!
May 16th, 2012 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#14&31 OK I will. Are these by any chance the politically motivated “charges” I read about recently online, coming sadly from a non-Kirchnerist leftist I would otherwise admire, Victoria Donda, and her Binnerite colleagues? Its sad because the left should be able to put up a united front against the 1%, whatever the Socialist Party's criticisms of Nestor and Cristina's continued participation in the Peronist Party which I think is what they fell out over; taking a beleaugered fellow leftist to court is just low. But it happened in Scotland too you know, where the Scottish Socialist Party split over its leadership taking the side of Rupert Murdoch's utterly corrupt News of the World under the cover of attacking their former leader Tommy Sheridan for “corruption”; the left all over the world finds it hard to get on =(
May 17th, 2012 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0#18,23,27 Well I'm glad in a backhanded way you've admitted what I've been saying all along, that she's incredibly youthful and beautiful, no? =)
#38 Simon I must say I took you for a hardline capitalist, but here you are praising Mujica for being “more socialist” than Cristina. You've also praised Alfonsin and Timmerman snr on here before, both democrats, so what is your politics? Why do you seem reasonable about other progressive people but slip into paroxysms of Fox news style hate whenever you talk about “Kretina”, her husband or Chavez? My theory is that your conservative at least socially, and more comfortable with the Mujica, Alfonsin, Tim snr generation and their way of doing things, but that perhaps in 30 years if theres another populist left government people like you may be saying “why can't they behave...like Nestor and Cristina did!” Also why do you think the frugal Mujica gets on so well with the queenly Cristina, and please don't put it down to Argentine bullying as many other Uraguyan politicians have made their views very clear; could it perhaps be because despite different personal styles, they have the same politics?
112 British_Kirchnerist (#)
May 17th, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 17th, 2012 - 09:19 am
I am as near as possible a supporter of the UCR, but now totally disillusioned. What I certainly am is an anti-peronist. Peronism has been the downfall of Argentina since its inception, in all its varied colours, from far left (Montoneros, ERP, MTP, etc.) to the far right (AAA, traditional peronism etc.) all have brought economic disaster to the very people who cannot withstand economic disaster: the very poor.
I'm afraid your “queen” is just another disaster, she has not improved the lives of the poor, she has only given them a tiny subsidy that does not substitue for a real job of work, her and her husband's subsidies have over the last nine years have taught a whole generation to live without working because working doesn't increase their income. This means there is less production which in turn means less wealth to distribute. It is a lose-lose situation and Kretina's policies are just making everthing worse.
Now perhaps you'll understand why I approve of Pepe's socialism and not of this fake socialism of the Kirchners. Remember the Kirchner familly fortune rose by over 700% between 2003 and 2010, and in 2009 it was worth about 14.5 million dollars. That is why She makes me sick.
Simon, interedting points in part, but I've effectively continued this conversation with you on the thread where you say Cristina et all “should be shot”.
May 17th, 2012 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#100-101 Didn't have space to reply to this last time, but its hardly conspiracy theory to be aware and suspicious of the power of the oil lobby (and I'm not a fan of real conspiracy theories, David Icke etc). I don't know the science of whether they've found a reliably profitable alternative to the combustion engine or not, but what they haven't done is plough resources into looking for one the way they do with making new ways to kill people; if we can make war on each other, why not on climate change? As for the original ”Argentine (and LatAm) disease” of corruption and petty theft, I must say I agree with Simon (!) that poverty is the cause. We may not entirely agree about his capitalist cure...
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