MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine provinces face less revenue and higher rates because of YPF seizure
Argentine provinces are falling back in paying salaries and honouring debts as they face a shortage of cash and almost record rates for issuing bonds in money markets, reports Buenos Aires financial press. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI suspect waiting for the rate to drop will be rather like waiting for the plastic in CFKs face to decompose.
May 17th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Delayed paying salaries - and some argentines here still try telling us their is no problem in argentina, guess their still getting paid on time whilst some are not.
May 17th, 2012 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who in their right mind would by these bonds? You would never get any money back, especially as the economy is set to crash and burn within the next two years or so.
May 17th, 2012 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can just imagine the scenario of the new 'government' and their response to the question 'where is my money'. After pissing themselves with laughing they would say 'we did not issue these bonds or warrant their sale, IT WAS THE CFK GOVERNMENT. Just like the did over the Junta and the invasion of the Falklands (there are no Malvinas).
Perhaps 'I don't Think' who says he lives in Chubut can sell his old watch and put that towards a bond.
LOL
Santa Cruz is a joke. How can such a wealthy province (their GDP per capita is near the EU average), have ANY problem?
May 17th, 2012 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That shows they have have some specific problem to themselves. Screw them. If they need more revenue, raise the GAS price 50% (since Patagonia gets the paralel 42 south gasoline price break, subsidized partly by MENDOZA).
Hmm yet again something I said WEEKS ago is being reported on....
May 17th, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They now have $ sniffing dogs in the streets to find $P that people are trying to convert.
Yeah all is well....
Self-detemination for Santa cruz!
May 17th, 2012 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6
May 17th, 2012 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are far better off as part of Argentina than not. Which is why such a wealthy area doesn't even consider that.
Everyone knows that the provinces south of Cordoba city (including Cordoba) have a per capita of 15,000 USD and above. The Patagonian provinces about 25,000 USD and above. Capital Federal 36,000 USD.
The northern provinces? 4,000-6,000 USD.
They should be demanding that Santa Cruz fix their own sh!t. Why should they pay (I've been critical of the northern provinces in the past, but here I will defend them).
Santa Cruz is having problems because they over promised on the wage negotiations this year. Now there is no money to pay them.
May 17th, 2012 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Devaluation will solve this short term that is why I know it is right around the corner. All the tricks in the bag have been used up it's the only one she has left.
Yankeeboy have you noticed that the real that used to be at 1.60 is at 2 now?
May 17th, 2012 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Chilean peso?
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-16/chile-peso-falls-past-500-in-biggest-four-day-drop-since-october
The Euro was at 1.45 now at 1.27.
And no, none of that because the dollar is “strong”. The dollar has gone down by half in since 2000.
So currencies go up and down...
You claim to know basic economics, you do realize that when internal inflation is 20%, the currency would need to devalue just as much to keep competitive stability, otherwise the currency the facto rises 20%.
So the argie peso has in fact in real terms gained a lot of purchasing power, so a “devaluation” would be not as you paint it (sinking to new lows), but trying to redress the competitiveness issue given how the currency in real terms is more expensive, and how countries all over the world are devaluing their currencies.
But I know I'm talking to a wall here, you will never admit that some things are not CFK's making. (excessive printing of money to keep paying stupid subsidies for consumption is her fault).
@7
May 17th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting.
Are the local govt bonds sold only within Argentina?
Santa Cruz and the rest of the petro-provinces are up the creek without a paddle because they had to toe the party line to keep getting their fair share of the tax pie. Now ther's no more pie because Kretina has given it away to “the people”, better said has pissed it away in subsidies to her friends in the transport companies, Aerolineas Argentinas, etc. Well done Kretina, Moreno, De Vido, Kicilloff, et al real Argentine heroes. They should all be shot.
May 17th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand currencies fluctuate. Are you saying the Peso is overvalued right now? And if so what do you think the “real” valuation should be? If overvalued why does it keep sinking?
May 17th, 2012 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing propping it up for the last year or four has been the BCRA reserves, BCRA has had a steady devaluation against the U$, so when the U$ goes up like it has in the last week or so it puts a huge strain on their slow measured devaluation. That is why you see panic in the grey market.
The only solution they have now is to make the official exchange somewhere above the “leak rate” and hope there isn't a run on the currency and mass withdrawals out of the banking system.
I would bet this is coming this winter. I don't see any other path for her.
“If overvalued why does it keep sinking?”
May 17th, 2012 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you answerd your own question...
“Panic in the grey market”
So the movements in the other world currencies are a panic right? Since they have moved 3-5% in recent days with the turmoil in the European and US economies, with the bad jobs report in the US and now the bank worries in Europe.
The BCRAs 'slow devaluation“, again, was not large enough to compensate for the internal rise in prices and wages. If the peso in its FACE value went down 5% a year, but inflation is 20-25%, then in real value the peso went up 20%.
Do you think it is some mass brainwashing that in the last 2-3 years argie purchases and trips abroad have soared, to levels similar to the 1=1 period?Why have so many tourists gone to Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Peru, Mexico, etc? Why so many argies shopping in the USA, Florida mainly?
It's obvious that the real purchasing power of the argentine has risen so that imports and going on overseas trips is affordable. That indicates a real exchange rate that is NOT favorable, or even overvalued.
Haven't you read Chileans, Uruguayans or Brazilians here saying they USED TO come to Argentina but now it is too expensive? (but they are all waiting for the ”next” devaluation?)
Tie all those things together yankeeboy. What does that tell you?
It says the real ppp of Argentina has gone up significantly. At this point, perhaps too much for the productivity or exports to handle, which is why the gov is trying to plug the holes in the import/export restrictions.
This is not at all complicated really.
So you are agreeing that a devaluation is imminent? Where do you think it will end up and when? I'm thinking above 6 ( maybe 7-9) by Sept.
May 17th, 2012 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you stay overnight in downtown because of the subway strike? It looks like it is a mess in BA.
Quite frankly the fate of the peso and Argentina is a minor sideshow to the economic problems facing the world today.
May 17th, 2012 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina going bankrupt would be met with a “who'd have guessed” shrug from the rest of the world. It's the fate of Greece that should be vexing us all.
I agree with most of what tobias says @13 But disagree on some minor points. The number of Argies arriving here in La Serena obviously plummeted after the last devaluation but has been recovering, although has not returned to the level of pre-devaluation.
May 17th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“plug the holes in the import/export restrictions” – that is going to bring more grief, but I know we fundamentally disagree on that point.
Also, does Simon @11 not have a point, as to the root of the problem?
#11 “They should all be shot”
May 17th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you serious or is that bluster? I ask only because you seem to have two personalities on here, one thoughtfully centrist or centre right when discussing democrats of the past, Mujica, general politics etc, and another much more rabid Fox News one when discussing Cristina and her supporters
#15 “It's the fate of Greece that should be vexing us all”
Indeed. I hope they learn from Argentina and grow their way out of crisis
Things fall apart
May 17th, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/101034/things-fall-apart-
17 British_Kirchnerist (#)
May 17th, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 17th, 2012 - 03:29 pm
Unless you are in fact an Argentine troll,which some here suspect, you don't have to live with the grinding stress of trying to make the beginning of the month and the end of the month meet with a few pesos left for emergencies.
It is very easy to comment on what purports to be a socialist government from the comfort of the British Isles, but try to imagine living on a fixed income with 30% inflation, and quite a few of the pensioners that I know are trying to do this on ARS $1.600 per month, that is at the official exchange rate US$357.
Try it sometime, I think you'll find it pretty difficult.
18. I read that opinion this AM and thought, this is the first time I have seen RGs talking about the inevitable crash.
May 17th, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will get the ball rolling faster as people try to protect their savings and buckle down for the long haul.
Nasty stuff about to happen....
@17
May 17th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British_Kirchnerist when starts WW4 you will be against the wall. Just becasue you love CFK is not enough. You are a British traitor and we will not want you either.
Who has two personalities? You do. An imperial brit cannot be a Kirchnerist.
Imperialist loser hahahahahaha
19. If you ask THINK $P1700 is more than enough to buy whatever you need and travel internationally!
May 17th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 022 yankeeboy (#)
May 17th, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 17th, 2012 - 04:35 pm
Our friend Think must be getting a legislator's income to live so well!!!
LOL
@17 Greece is going to die! So is argieland! Oh, look @21. Seems your sickening grovelling isn't working with Max. Mind you, he does appear to have a problem numbering his “world wars”. Perhaps he's mistaken some argie scuffle for one?
May 17th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still, look on the bright side. No matter which side gets their hands on you first, you're for the chop. I suppose we could have warned you about what most of these south american tossers are like. Personally, I didn't care. Don't forget to wear pictures of CFK on your chest and on your ass. Give us all something to aim at.
(17) British Kirchnerist…
May 17th, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People like Simon68 are one of the elements of the Argentinean paradigm…..
They call themselves “democratic” but, at the same time, they say that the democratically elected government : “Should all be shot”.
They whine over the…: ”Grinding stress of trying to make the beginning of the month and the end of the month meet with a few pesos left for emergencies.”……, conveniently forgetting that in 2001 unemployment and inflation where both close to 50%
They whine about the…..: ”Quite a few of the pensioners that I know are trying to do this on ARS $1.600 per month, that is at the official exchange rate US$ 357”……, conveniently forgetting that in 2001 the pensions where less than US$ 90.
Anyhow, even if this type of persons gladly would see me get shot; I still would put my life in line for their rights….
25 Think (#)
May 17th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 17th, 2012 - 05:04 pm
Don't live in the past, Think, live in the present. If you honestly think that things a good now you should get to a therapist ASAP.
Things are bad for all at the moment, but really bad for the poor. I don't consider myself poor yet, but that time is coming and for the really poor at this moment things are a disaster.
If you disagree with me Think, you're living in a dream world.
(26) Simon68
May 17th, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I should go to a therapist........................
Where do you “Think” you should go, Mr. “All should be shot” ?
27 Think (#)
May 17th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0May 17th, 2012 - 05:27 pm
I need an “Anger Mediator” not a therapist!!
(28) Simon68
May 17th, 2012 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed you do...................................
Genuine question here from someone who (mercifully) has never had to live through inflation greater than 6%pa - How do salaries etc work when inflation is 20-25%?
May 17th, 2012 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do employers renegotiate annually and you have to make do as the year goes on (with everything costing much more), or are they adjusted quarterly or similar?
If the former, presumably the coping mechanisms kick in such as buying on credit as much as possible to allow inflation to erode the interest etc?
(Not trying to score points, just curious)
Bonds in pesos eh?
May 17th, 2012 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd buy a load of them...
if I couldn't get hold of any real toilet paper.
Hey lads have you seen the latest Carlsberg ad taking the piss out of Argentina, it’s a pisser
May 17th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2145669/Mop-God-Argentine-anger-Carlsberg-beer-ad-shows-Diego-Maradona-scrubbing-floors- England-football-fans.html
It is absurd to THINK Argentina has a functioning democracy! What a load of b/s.
May 17th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rampant corruption, buying votes, courts & congress & senate all in the back pocket of the Prez, you change the constitution or ignore it when it is ill suited to the whim of a hysterical dictator or her thug minions.
Laughable and Sad at the same time.
@32
May 17th, 2012 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you blinked you would miss the Mop of God!
The boots (get it?) is on the other foot now eh? LOL
28 Simon68
May 17th, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I shouldn't worry about “Think” If I were you. He is chock full of such grand phrases like :-
“Anyhow, even if this type of persons gladly would see me get shot; I still would put my life in line for their rights….”
My, my,my!! but when push comes to shove, He will be stomping all over them in his Jackboots just like the rest of his “Le camping” chums.
“Putting my life on the line for their rights” to him means invading countries, enslaving populations and sewing minefields whenever and where the mood takes you... So I “Think” we can now safely discount anything he says.
Argentine provinces
May 17th, 2012 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any time you wanna change,
Justa comma knocking .lol
.
#17 “Indeed. I hope they [Greece] learn from Argentina and grow their way out of crisis” Very amusing... how to jump from the pan into the fire...
May 17th, 2012 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32 Britishbulldog
May 17th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brilliant.
Payback is a bitch.
Double measure and all.
LMFAO
Greece? That's a European problem. No one in Argentina cares about that as an economic threat.
May 17th, 2012 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one is saying that Greece is an economic threat to Argentina. It is simply being used as a model.
May 18th, 2012 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone that doesn't believe the problems in Greece are a threat to Argentina (and most of the trading world) doesn't understand the problems in Greece.
May 18th, 2012 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Contagion from a Greek disorderly exit from the Euro could cause a worldwide depression.
#21 Well I you'r more a junta man than a kirchnerist I'd imagine. I'm neither British imperialist or British traitor (there is a way to avoid being both), but are you really saying Cristina would kill me because of my race?! If I thought she'd do that to anyone I really wouldn't “love” her!
May 18th, 2012 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0#25 Brilliant Think!
@42 None of WE Brits is an imperialist. Whether YOU are a “British” anything is more the question. Whether or not you are a traitor is not for you to decide. I doubt Vidkun Quisling or William Joyce thought of themselves as traitors. Didn't stop either of them being executed! Maybe you should keep your fingers crossed and wonder who “Max” is!
May 18th, 2012 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you should get together with Twinky. He's happy to put his “life in line”. How can you do less for your “queen”? But I bet he'd stand behind you. Still, you could always while away YOUR time considering your position if you don't support the Queen of England, and numerous other territories including the Falkland Islands! Democracy is one thing. Treason is something else. “...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].”
#30 - You asked a serious question; I will try to give you a serious answer.
May 18th, 2012 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina today, there is hardly a real “plan” for anything. Everything is done “by the seat of their pants” to fit the situation. Pay rises are given according to who marches on the street, whomever makes the most noise, and how close they are to the CFK government. Over the past 10 years, buying power has just about disappeared, and prices are skyrocketing. I do not know how a pensioner can survive, even if lucky enough to get their money as promised.
30 JPhillips (#)
May 18th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 044 jerry is quite right, there is no planning, I'm not sure that the seat of the pants theory is exactly right, I feel it is more of “a glossing over of the cracks”, seat of the pants gives the impression of some sort of skill!!
As an Argentine pensioner, with a relatively good pension, I can tell you that the situation is, to put it mildly, “frightening”, because there is no way our pension funds can hold up against 30% inflation and certainly not against free fall inflation which is only months away.
In other times we could buy foreign currency to hedge against inflationary loss, but now, at least in the interior of the country, there is no way to buy foreign currency. I guess we'll see how we get on in the next few months!
44 & 45 Thanks for the answers, sorry to patronise you with my idle curiosity (micro-economics was never my area - as my wife would agree!).
May 18th, 2012 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Best of luck, I hope I have to make a small donation to the Red Cross in September :)
@21 Μax
May 18th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Traitors are hanged.
Spies are shot.
#43 “...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation].”
May 18th, 2012 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well thats exactly what I'm NOT doing, I support the win-win situation of Britain entering into negotiations
@48
May 19th, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you had ANY thought for your country you would drop all this nonsense and back the truth for once.
The Falklanders have a genuine, legal claim to the islands (there are no Malvinas) but you side with the gangsters of Argentina in denying them a peaceful existence.
You are nothing but a deluded Scott, living in the past who, quite frankly is detestable in the extreme. Awful, awful, 'person'.
If your parents were alive I bet they would disown you for the filth that you are.
#49 I don't really want to even dignify your last comment with a response except to say your completely wrong about my parents. I'm not siding with anything except Cristina's peaceful and reasonable call for negotiations, and against Cameron's arrogant dismissal of that; as for the Islanders, everyone serious agrees they should have their rights protected, but do they really have sole rights over oil reserves that are perhaps 3 times as large as those in the North Sea (which, despite your constant goadings on my opposition to independence, I have always been in favour of sharing with England and opposed separatism largely on that basis for its selfishness) in waters disputed now by an entire continent?
May 20th, 2012 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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