MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK deeper in recession; IMF recommends more stimuli measures
Britain fell deeper into recession than initially thought in the first quarter of 2012 due to a slump in construction output, raising the likelihood that the Bank will opt to inject more stimuli to protect the economy from the Euro zone debt crisis. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesuk is FINISHED!!
May 25th, 2012 - 02:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just get out while you still can from uk(ex empire)
True, it's a little tough here but we'll get through this. We're not called Great Britain for nothing you know my friend.
May 25th, 2012 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The important thing is we carry on bring the debt down - and paying the debt of to our creditors as soon as possible. We can't just not pay them - that wouldn't be right would it??
@1 really -
May 25th, 2012 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0i don't see 30% inflation here
I don't see importers being told they have export other goods equal to the value of goods they import here.
I don't see people taking their money out of the banks here and changing it in to dollars or indeed a black market for dollars here.
I don't see people buying cars or houses here purely because they know the car will be worth more in years to come then what they paid for it now, here as a way of protecting their cash.
Oh and malviner your argentinas growth for the last three months compared to the same time last year, decreased by how much!! sorry you will have to shout as I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!! LOL
You got to laugh at Malvybaby, he lives in a nation where you have to buy the currency of another nation! to conduct any of business, or protect your own earning! and he says we are finished. I'll worry when the tax man starts to train sniffer dogs!!!!!!!!!!
May 25th, 2012 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can't find amusement in what's happening in Europe.The ones to pay the bill are the common folks, as usual. The bloody oligarchy is live and kicking, wealthier than ever. Instead of having a go at these human pretenders, they choose Argentina as the bad guy.
May 25th, 2012 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0What they fail to realize is that production wont return to Europe for a decade at least, and should the chinese open their market for mobile phones and telecommunications, as they say they are about to, even more money will leeve the old continent (for an older one...). No, a life in uncertainty and forced austerity so the few can fulfill their dreams, is nothing to be amused about. Difference is that you guys seem to want that for us...
@1 - Malverino1.
May 25th, 2012 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the UK is in recession, no one has every denied that. But compared to Argentina we're doing okay.
Recessions come and go, but it's how a country conducts itself in the hard times, in adversity, that shows its true character. Let's compare shall we?
Argentina's government: lies about inflation figures, and locks people up who disagree with their figures. Took all the reserves from the central bank. Stops your people taking money and goods out of the country. Won't allow imports unless the balance the exports. Steals the pensions off their own people. Steal foreign companies for the cash. Refuses to pay your debts. Credit reading bbb-
British government: doesn't lie about inflation, or lock people up (the governor of the Bank of England is free to give the government advice and disagree with them if he wishes). We still have our reserves. No restriction about the movement of goods and money by the people of the UK. Follows the international rules on trade. Hasn't stolen the pension funds off people. Don't steal foreign companies. Always pay back our debts. Credit rating AAA+.
Yup the UK is in recession, but Argentina is in free fall.
Leproso
May 25th, 2012 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not the one to decide if you are to continue to live in denial. Argentina has been improving economically quite a lot the last decade. Doesn't matter if you shout differently, and what more is, it doesn't matter how many times you shout your lies either.
Argentina doesn't lock people up who disagree with the country's official numbers, they fine the ones who wont present the methods they used to come up with their own statistics (a way to stop your likes from lying, you have a bad natural reaction against sources). Finally, the credit ratings are your tools, made by you, used by you and you are the only ones who care about them. Doesn't stop the world from investing in SA, by the looks of it. More of a problem in the AAA Europe though, don't you think?
@Malvinero1
May 25th, 2012 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Compared to southern Europe and the the backwards Argentine shithole, the UK is positively booming. They will be doing just fine, thanks. Sorry to burst your bubble, cretin.
@7 your growth is nothing but a mask for the economic doom argentina is facing.
May 25th, 2012 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0You should read this areticle - http://www.diplomaticourier.com/news/latin-america/988-argentina-fact-or-fiction
Particular this Paragraph as it explains why you have so much growth and why its a recipe ofr disater - ”However, if we were to take a look at Argentina’s exports, it would paint a different picture – record sales of cars (largely due to increase demand from Brazil), commodity prices driving the soybean prices to record highs (mainly due to Chinese demand), and wheat plus corn exports performing strongly. In fact, Argentina is the second largest exporter of corn, sunflower meal, and sunflower oil. It ranks third in exporting soy. Manufacturing exports have received a huge boost because of car exports to Brazil. Now on the infamous other side of the coin, notwithstanding auto and manufacturing, Argentina is too reliant on high commodity prices, and it is the high prices that are driving exports and bringing in much needed revenue and growth. The problem with this scenario is that it is a recipe for disaster; the export industry is over-heating and unpredictable, akin to the subprime mortgage crisis in the U.S. where investors naively assumed that real estate prices would forever ascend.”
End of the day its basic stuff Guzz - you may well have growth but its the wrong kind of growth that will lead to disaster due to the wrong economic policies, just look at how argentina growth fell in the last 3 months compare to the same period last year, the disaster is just around the corner and all the signs are there including the drop in growth.
UK is finished ,thats true that no wonder comparing it with Argentina
May 25th, 2012 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0not with other European countries.
@10TT
May 25th, 2012 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Errrr! scuse me, but who is the pot calling the kettle black on here, a frenchman? Cos I do not think soooooo!
Compared to southern Europe and the the backwards Argentine shithole, the UK is positively booming. They will be doing just fine, thanks. Sorry to burst your bubble, cretin.
May 25th, 2012 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here the brits in this forum live in a conitinuos denial of themselves.
People: That is the reality.uk has very little industries left,the sold London(to the arabs,they sold the N.Sea oil),there is nothing to sell now....
Wake up,That is REALITY!
Oh dear, the Malvinero1 cretin is still living in the fantasy land where anyone who doesn't subscribe to his twisted view of the world is a Brit. It is just a shame that, knowing as little about the UK as he so clearly does, he constantly bangs on with the same old demonstrable untruths .. but then I suppose that is what cretinous trolls do when they can't bring themselves to face the reality that Argentina is a bankrupt shithole and that the UK is blossoming by comparison and having to subsidise poor little destitute Argentina .
May 25th, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@12Malvinero1
May 25th, 2012 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well if your waiting to see a “FOR SALE” sign outside Government House in Port Stanley, your going to have a long wait. I would not hold my breath if I were you, then again.
1 & 5
May 25th, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is happening in Europe, apart from Greece is just a minor recession, the type that usually comes around every 20 years or so. This one just happens to be a carry over from 2008 when the banking crisis wasn't sorted out properly by the inept politicians. This will be penuts to what is happening in Argentina with 30% inflation and annual wage increases running at 5% plus unpaid debts to the 'Paris Club' . Now this will be catastrophic for the Argentine people. And all because they elected CFK & Co.
@12 after checking on some FACTS I can say that we haven't been written off as finished in the world just yet - sorry.
May 25th, 2012 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looking at a countries sovereign credit rating indicates the risk level of the investing environment of a country and is used by investors looking to invest abroad. It takes political risk into account.
The UK still holds a AAA credit rating as people have stated correctly here. Standard&Poor's, Fitch and Moodys. Dagong (Beijing-based rating agency) has given the UK and USA an A+ and A respectively so still some work for us to do.
Here is a map from S&P -sorry it is dated Aug 2011
http://www.atbreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Credit-ratings-of-each-country.jpg
,How stupid some indocronoughts there are around,
May 25th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if Europe goes down the plug hole, you south Americans will sure to follow,
no point in explaining it to you ,
As you cant see further then your mouths.
@Guzz and Mavinero
May 25th, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I travel a lot with work and go to Europe and the UK frequently.
The real situation there is quite different from that portrayed in the news, at least here in Chile.
From the news here you might think that Europe was falling apart and going back to the dark ages, but I have to say that despite even Chile’s 20 years of growth we are still years from catching up with Europe. Even with their relative contraction the countries of Europe are still very wealthy.
You must remember that even a “poor” person in northern Europe has a free house, free education, access to free health care and those are just the basics. On top of that they receive money for not working and can use sports centres, libraries and so on. The definition of poor here is U$2/day. Over there a child that doesn’t have a computer in their bedroom is considered poor.
The people there are not suffering. What they refer to as hard times means having to cut back on one of the annual holidays.
There is no oligarchy either. In the UK and Germany for example you can see the myriad of medium sized businesses are the backbone of the economy. Visit the hightec hubs around Cambridge, Edinburgh, Bristol and so on and what you see are hundreds of small companies pioneering hightec products in biotec, nanotech, avionics, robotics, etc. I worked in the latter industry designing mechanical systems. It was 100 years from here. You can design almost anything you want because you can pull in a specialist in any discipline from just around the corner.
And robotics is old school compared to what the companies in bio/nano tec are doing. They have such a large and skilled technical base that even if their economy contracted by 50% (rather than 0.3%) they can rapidly build themselves out of it (by they I mean UK, Germany, France, Italy).
In Chile we are trying to build up a technical base to move up from a resource based economy. Argentina should do the same.
Go to Europe to see for yourself.
First of all,Britain must be a Republic !
May 25th, 2012 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Go to Europe to see for yourself”
May 25th, 2012 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can't afford to .. especially not with the government's new stricter controls on foreign currency purchases.
@19 Max (#) Why a republic ? thats stupid ?!
May 25th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me take a look out the window... No, no free houses for the danes. No, no free education and healthcare, it's being financed by the taxing system (highest taxes in the world, around 40% and up, depending of your income). And no, they don't recieve money for not working either, they are put in different activities, usually meaning taking on jobs no one wants in order to recieve the existensial minimum, as they call it. And last, no, no free sports facilities, they might be free to enter, but they charge you for using them.
You got it right on the libraries only :)
@Max
May 25th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What business is it of yours whether the UK is a monarchy or a republic? When Argentina has understood the concept of democracy, then (and only then) will its deluded cheerleaders be in a position to lecture any other country on its system of government.
If the people are happy with a monarchy, then that is what they should have .. in exactly the same way that the people of the Falklands should be British if that is what they want to be. This choice thing really is quite alien to you, isn't it?
& 21
May 25th, 2012 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love English,
but I think They must have a power/freedom to elect their own Head of State not by succession...I know they do try to emulate French.
Here is that map again, looking at it I can't see a good reason for the UK to be a Republic.
May 25th, 2012 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here is a map from S&P -sorry it is dated Aug 2011
www.atbreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Credit-ratings-of-each-country.jpg
@18 Condorito - Chile obviously doing the right things as you guys are a nice shade of 'good investment' blue.
Oh dear, and now Guzzykins has moved on from showing his general ignorance about all things Swedish to showing his general ignorance about Denmark. Is there any country that he isn't pig-ignorant about?
May 25th, 2012 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to be very long-term unemployed in Denmark before you are made to do work for the community .. and even then the benefits are still amazingly generous. Housing is heavily subsidised for those who need it .. and in some cases free. Sports facilities are indeed free for those who can't afford them and heavily subsidised for those who would struggle to afford them.
Det kan sagtens siges at Guzz ikke ved ret meget om noget som helst
@Max
The only thing worse than trying to emulate an Argentinian would be trying to emulate a bloody frog .. which is probably why no Brit (in fact no-one of any nationality) I have ever met would willingly want to do that (unless they were doing an Inspector Clouseau impression at the time)
@24 Max (#) The queen as head of state, bears little power.
May 25th, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We elect our government as all democracy do.
She has over 60 years of experience, having seen 12 different Primeminsters in power, such as Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher, and has advised and worked alongside them.
We are more fortunate than most to have her as head of state.
As for emulating the French, how so ?
We are clearly distinguishable from the French in nearly every manner, we didnt have to hang our monarchy....and we understand what queuing is ....
.... even the French are so desperate not to be French that there are now 700,000 of them in London, which is jokingly referred to as the 21st Arrondissement of Paris and has more French citizens living in it than all but 6 cities in France.
May 25th, 2012 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0skåre
May 25th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The times where you got money for doing naught in Denmark are (luckily) long time gone, that onæy served to create sloths. Housing is not at all subsidised, on the contrary, housing prices are hugely inflated still, no one will give you an apartment or even help you pay it, much less a house. Sport facilities are not subsidised for the poorest, that's an outright lie.
I'm not saying Denmark is poor, or that its system doesn't work, all I'm saying is that Condorito's statement is wrong...
& 27 ///// & 28
May 25th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said “” head of state “” not “” the government “”....not same things !
One of the problem of this corrupt English System is from existance of opportunist classs 0f the Lords ..Sir s........
I see majority of English consumers prefer jammy French goods...
Guzz
May 25th, 2012 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did I say that you get something for nothing and that all housing is subsidised? No!
As for the sports facilities, if you use the right ones they are most certainly subsidised for those who need it (if people use places like Øbro-hallen, rather than purely commercial enterprises like Fitness DK) and it is an appalling lie to say that they aren't.
As is the habit with your crass misrepresentations, you deliberately ignore qualifiers like “those who need it” and “those who can't afford” .. the qualifiers that make what I say true and your claims a lie.
I do actually happen to live in Copenhagen.
@30 Max (#) I know you said head off state, hence why said' The queen AS HEAD OF STATE, bears little power.' and then reiterated the point we still elect our government.
May 25th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And it is by no means a 'corrupt' system. Lords and Sirs have been used for centuries, and their role and meaning has been greatly adapted to suite modern times. I fail to understand how it is opportunist...
And what jammy french goods are these ? You do not make sense ?!
It was the French who wished to 'emmulate' us so much at one point they requested a union with us, with the Queen as head of state.....
Then try Grøndalcentret in NV or DGI Byen and tell them you can't afford the cost, but you've heard they take less for the poorer ones :) :) :)
May 25th, 2012 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here, the prices for usage of the facilities in Øbro Hallen:
http://kulturogfritid.kk.dk/node/7311
Evidence that France wanted to be apart of the British Empire/commonwealth/union....
May 25th, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6261885.stm
& 32
May 25th, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Confession.... you say no having freedom/power to elect the “” head of state“” !...no daring !
Yes, the prices .. but not the price you pay with an entitlement card (although even that list shows plenty of subsidised rates) *rolls eyes*
May 25th, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that YOU can't personally get a subsidy is probably because you don't qualify, or aren't worthy (and I have to admit that I would be pissed off if my taxes were subsidising you of all people).
DGI Byen? I am so pleased to see that you are reverting to type and frequenting the end of town that is so popular with the pushers and hookers.
@35 Max (#) Yes but you are struggling to understand what the queen as head of state does.....
May 25th, 2012 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Despite how it may have been painted to you, shes not some evil dictator that steals loads of money.....
And we still have the power to elect who we wish, to run the country.....
So having the Queen as head of state is not bad.....In fact it is a good thing.......There is no one better to do her job....than her.....
THOR
May 25th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, she doesn't steal the money, she takes it legally in form of taxes :) Are you trying to tell me the European monarchs actually work for a living? :) :) :)
“There is no one better to do her job....than her.....”
May 25th, 2012 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On that I disagree. Her role is a perverse anachronism, but if that is what the people of the UK want, then that is their choice and it certainly isn't for an imbecilic Serbian troll to tell them that they need to convert to being a republic and accepting all the inherent flaws with that system of government.
@38 Guzz (#) The Monarchy is an Institution. The most Famous in the world, it brings in tourists from everywhere. She certainly works for a living. The Royal family are now used, as in effect Diplomats. And there support can mean alot.
May 25th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are also 'for the people'. During WW2 they were invaluable for propaganda and moral purposes and still are today. I think i could say with certainty that the UK soldiers would rather see a member of the royal family, than a PM or MP.
Also it was the royal family that helped shape and build the Empire, that in turn, helped Britain (and many other nations) become as rich as it is today. I think they more than deserve what they earn, and am glad that any tax i pay will contribute to it. As for other European monarchs ? Well i cant really vouch for them........
39 skåre (#) Well as ive said, someone with 60 years of experience, who has worked with great minds such as Churchill and Thatcher ?
Who else can advise a UK PM better if nit her ? You may argue the Monarchy is a dated institution , but as ive explained above, they have adapted to a modern age. Saying that, you make a perfectly good point about it being our choice, and i respect your comment about it.
“great minds such as Churchill and Thatcher”
May 25th, 2012 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PMSL!
@39 skåre (#) You disagree that these people 'did not have great minds' ?
May 25th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How so ?
THOR
May 25th, 2012 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0skåre is no racist, he hates everyone equally :)
Well I guess it depends on your definition of “great”. I don't know any Brit who has very much positive commentary to offer on the Milk Snatcher .. and Churchill's rep beyond his part in defeating the Nazis was actually pretty abysmal. To class him as great overlooks just what a incompetent and duplicitous bastard history has shown him to be.
May 25th, 2012 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5
May 25th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Difference is that you guys seem to want that for us...”
Letting your “I'm Uruguayan” stance slip again Guzz the Argie.
I don't think I have ever read anything on MPress regarding us wishing anything against Uruguay. People who lie should retain a good memory.
@43 Guzz (#) Well even if you hated them, and they have as many hate them as they do admirers, you can not dispute their intelligence....
May 25th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bloody hell, even I have more respect for Churchill :)
May 25th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I respect Churchill's part in defeating the Nazis. I just can't personally categorise him as 'great', because he was a deeply flawed man.
May 25th, 2012 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@44 skåre (#) Not every British person hates Thatcher. Labour did an incredible job painting her as the 'devil', and many of her decisions aided this view. But she was one of the few leaders that did things that the people did not like, but was right for the country, and right in the long term. The privatisations helped the economy immensely, and stopped the industry becoming an economic burden on the State. Add to that she didnt back down to the EU or the Argentines, and gave them a damn good thrashing, you can not dispute that she was great, even if you hate her guts.
May 25th, 2012 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Churchill was a vital figure to the war. It is arguable but popular belief, that without Churchill, the War would be lost, but not just the Defeat of Britain, but the defeat of the World. Although he was not a brilliantpeace time leader because his skills that made him good during the war, were those that hindered him after it. Although this does not mean his 'greatness' was surely apparent during the war. He managed to combine parliament into a strong coalition, that was vital to prepare Britain, and would seem very hard to do so today.
What you are saying about Churchill is like saying ' Pelé may have been one of the best football players of all time, but he wasn't that good because he cant play rugby to save his life'
Ken Ridge
May 25th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm a human being, Latin American and Uruguayan, in that order.
You might be friendly towards Uruguayans today, but tomorrow, when the tables turn, you will again treat us as the small nation hidden in the south. Do you think we already forgot about “yesterday”? So yes, us, as in Latin America
@Guzz
May 25th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is a shame that you choose to split hairs over whether sports centres are free or subsidized and ignore the point I am making.
1) UK is not an oligarchy
2) There is no poverty there like there is here (read Chile, Argentina)
3) We are years from having a technical base like them
4) That base will always let them bounce back
People who are on benefits do not pay 40% tax, so the housing, health and education is effectively free for them.
“Instead of having a go at these human pretenders, they choose Argentina as the bad guy”
The article doesn’t mention Argentina and neither does any post prior to your arrival 5.
Keep digging Guzz, you fail!!
May 25th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ken
May 25th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did I fail to convince you regarding my own nationality? Damn, how am I supposed to sleep tonight? :)
Condorito
People on benefits do indeed pay taxes, the whole 40% (38-42%), that's what make these countries so good, everybody pays taxes (except the pizzerias...)
As it is the same people posting on all threads, I will disregard your last lines...
@Brits in general
May 25th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come one of you please come in on this one.
Please tell Guzz if people on benefits pay tax.
From my understanding in the UK the first 10,000gbp are tax free, then the next tax band is 20 or 22% not 40%
Anyway, It is clear I was refering to the “poor” who are unemployed or on low income - they do not pay tax. I expect you will choose to split hair and mention VAT rather than accept the point that a recessioin in Europe doesn't make them poor.
@THOR94
May 25th, 2012 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't say that every person hated Thatcher - nor even that most do. There is a huge difference between saying “I don't know any Brit who has very much positive commentary to offer on the Milk Snatcher” and claiming that every Brit hates her.
Your analogy between Churchill and Pele is, with all due respect, banal. Pele wasn't responsible for the disaster at Gallipoli. Pele wasn't directly responsible for breaking his own explicit promise and forcing the repatriation of tens of thousands of Cossacks, and over two million Russians, at the end of the war - many of them to a certain death. It wasn't Pele's paranoia of all things communism that repeatedly undermined the Russians and set the seeds of (and later stoked) the Cold War. I am not saying that Churchill didn't do some outstanding things, or that he was evil, but I have a hard time characterising such a deeply flawed man as 'great' in the sense that someone like Aung San Suu Kyi, or Mahatma Gandhi.
Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are talking about northern Europe, I use Denmark as an example (northern Europe), and the danes on benefit are fully taxed (38-42%, depending on the area they live in). I don't know about Britain, but I would think it is the same there. Should it not be, then you should redefine your statement to involve Britain only, and not “northern Europe”...
@skare
May 25th, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this true (@56) that “danes on benefit are fully taxed (38-42%”??
Guzz, you are right to distinguish between different parts of Europe; but you do also grossly misrepresent taxation in Denmark.
May 25th, 2012 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even at the highest income, the total of all taxes (municipal, state, health etc) is capped at a maximum of around 51%. To even pay the levels of tax you are implying for “danes on benefit” you would have to be earning in excess of $130,000 .. which, even by Danish standards, is a damn good wage that sees you sitting pretty well above the benefits ceiling.
That said, what you say is basically true .. and if anything the Brits probably pay higher rates of tax once the earn much above $70,000
@55 skåre (#) The comments pretty much go hand in hand when describing someone...and either or, i have provided you with the valid information as to why she can be considered great, as to which i see you have not disputed.
May 25th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In terms of my analogy , it is hardly banal ? I dont think i have ever seen an analogy between Churchill and pele.
My point being, everyone is flawed, and it would not be a great man who were not flawed, but a perfect one. Pele was great in his field ; as a footballer. Churchill was great as war time leader, but this also made him unable to be a great peacetime leader.A man who does outstanding things can be characterised as great, and Churchill did many great things. Your 'paranoia' point can easily be argued differently. Churchill saw the threat of communism, and of Stalin. You can hardly say that the cold war stemmed from him, because he predicted it. And granted the Russians got away with alot, and forced Britain to receded in some of their promises, but Britain had neither the means or the will to prevent them from doing so. They had just come out of one of the biggest wars in History, and would no way be able to sustain another against Russia. And the only way Russian would respond, would be through force.
Pele was a great footballer, and probably couldn't play Rugby. Churchill was a great war time leader, but when it cam to peace time he wasnt so great. He was still great though.
@skare
May 25th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for that.
But what about the poor in Denmark? The unemployed?
Like I said, it is down to definitions of 'great' then. Neither are great in my books; but they are in yours. The definition matter little as long as we each understand what the other means.
May 25th, 2012 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 skåre (#) You have extremely high standards then. It would be interesting for you to give examples of great political figures who were more in Churchill's 'Boat'.
May 25th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0skåre
May 25th, 2012 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Denmark you have a skattekort that decided how much of your income is tax-free and the amount of tax you are to pay for the rest, usually 38-42% plus a smaller amount as AM-bidrag and some to the church, should you be a member. What you are talking about is topskat, and of course no dane on social welfare pays topskat...
Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The unemployed? It all depends. If you are an EU citizen, you will be hard-pressed to find more generous unemployment benefits anywhere in the world. If you aren't from the EU, you probably wouldn't be so unreasonable if your considered the benefits to be borderline racist (none of the Scandinavian countries are as welcoming of foreigners as people imagine .. and certainly not as welcoming as say France or the UK are). If you are VERY long-term unemployed – to the point where you are considered to be heading towards being unemployable – you may be asked to do work for the community in order to give you skills, enhance your employability and get you back into the routine of doing work. Very few are forced to undertake such work.
More and more, skåre. They call it “activation”. I'm not totally against it, as sloths is a far w0rse option, but the way the use the poorest ones (usually immigrants) to perform under-paid work is not quite fair...
May 25th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Otherwise I fully agree with your post, actually amazed you got it all right...
Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.... as for me as a Norwegian (with a Danish parent) and, as a citizen of a Nordic country, my rights in Denmark far surpass even those of EU citizens (which I am not). In the eyes of the law in Denmark I am to all intents and purposes an honorary Danish citizen and I am entitled to everything that a Danish citizen is entitled to.
Not that I have ever found myself in that position.
@Guzz
It is true enough that times are a changing and that Denmark (indeed all of Scandinavia) has fallen victim to the distasteful side of populism .. I mean, it comes to something when David Cameron's closest political ally in Europe is the Swedish Prime Minister :)
@skare
May 25th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for clarifying that.
@Guzz
I therefore maintain my point @18 that there is no poverty derived hardship in northern Europe like we know here in SAmerica, despite the recession.
“What they fail to realize is that production wont return to Europe for a decade at least” - production wont return??
What are you talking about. The GDP in the EU is almost 3 times that of China with a 1/3 of the populatioin, that make a European approx 9 times more productive than a Chinaman.
You split hairs over unemployment benefit in Denmark whilst making grossly inacurate statements about the ecomony of the EU.
Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poverty presents itself very much differently in the scandinavian countries. It is true that economic poverty is almost extinct, but that does not make its people richer. They have the highest rates of suicide in the world and if you like human contact, it's not the place for you. You might eat well, but you eat alone.
Also, rates of ADHD have increased by about 5000% the last few years, a diagnosed illness that presents itself as restlessness, hyperactivity and finally, depression.
If wealth is economical safety and a top education, Scandinavia is the best, no doubt about it. If wealth is measured in happiness, it's a whole different story...
Once more I have to agree with Guzz. Danes are widely characterised by the OECD as being the happiest and most contented people in the world; but the belies the fact that Scandinavia is a society where individualism and personal success is widely frowned upon (Google 'the Law of Jante') so people are brought up to have much lower individual expectations than almost anywhere I can think of. The contentedness is an illusion and as Guzz correctly states, the suicide rates are double those in more competitive neighbours, like the United Kingdom, where individualism is encouraged.
May 25th, 2012 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That said, the suicide rate in Uruguay is much higher than in Denmark, Norway and Sweden (which are in turn much higher than Argentina).
@Guzz
May 25th, 2012 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am quite aware of that thank you.
In your post @5 you are talking about “austerity”, “production” and “more money”. You were talking about financial wellbeing not mental health which is an entirely different topic.
I am sorry to hear you eat alone whilst in Europe. I have never seen that side of it. Don't let it get you down.
Well back to work for me.
Condorito
May 25th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I fully stand by my post #5, as I don't wish any people misery, no matter if it's economic or mental...
It's not me who eats alone in Europe, they just don't have the family bonds and social contact that can be found in other places. I'm no one to judge it, and I'm not doing so either, but you asked...
Oh dear, the Malvinero1 cretin is still living in the fantasy land where anyone who doesn't subscribe to his twisted view of the world is a Brit. It is just a shame that, knowing as little about the UK
May 26th, 2012 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0btw,I know quite a bit about uk......
Beign somebody connected with Industrial development,automation,Energy,Robotic..not much comes from uk......
skare: You do NOT Skare ANYBODY!
Just get out,if you live in uk,for GOOD!!
I am giving an HONEST advice......
Malvinero1 you know nothing about the UK - in fact you know nothing about anything .. least of all anything about automation, energy, robotics and industrial development (all of which there are far less of in the Argentine shithole than there are in the UK).
May 26th, 2012 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0In fact, contrary to your bizarre claims, the UK still has a large industrial sector .. in fact the GDP of that sector alone is larger than the entire GDP of Argentina (even using fictitious GDP figures produced for the government of Argentina). Better luck next time, you idiot.
IMF could be right sometimes like on England(UK) where say sometings on.
May 26th, 2012 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Industrial Production INDEX :(2011)/89...(2012)/88
Working days INDEX : (2011)/96....(2012)/94
Labour Costs: (2008)/16.8....(2012)/17.8
Also decreasing of Foreign Investments............
decreasing of Municipal Waste per capita.600kg(2003)....530(2011)
Yet more totally incomprehensible and irrelevant gibberish from the Mighty Max(imum brain-rot)
May 26th, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0@74 - Max
May 26th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not England - Britain. Or the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island.
England is a part of the whole.
But UK not deeper in legislation where has 1442 Legislators ,at the second rank behind China in the world....even US has ~ 530 Legislators.
May 26th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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