MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands’ new generation will attend the C24 meeting in New York
Two young Islanders will accompany Falkland Islands Legislative Assembly Members to a special session of the United Nations Special Committee on Decolonisation (C24) this month in New York. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThis is really a good decision, finally the Falklanders are doing something.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0They won't visit the islands, such an intelligent approach.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0If we wanted to demonstrate that the Falklands might still be considered a British Colony by foreigners we would send people with strong UK connections to represent the islanders at these events. Oh dear, we've done it again. A civil servant from Nottingham with a mother who left the Falklands on marriage, although she did return later with her British born husband!
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Doveoverdover (#)
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:25 am
Still irrelevant.
You know, all the islanders should do is present a petition signed in favour of the islanders right to remain british, or alternatively all those islanders able to go to the next C24 (next year) especially if held in the falklands - should turn up in force with banners stating their wish to remain british or independant of argentina.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Doveoverdover: They are a british overseas territory, so of course they will have strong british connections still, they are also british citizens so they are born in british territory and are therefore born british whether born in the UK or in the falklands it makes no difference. How other countries view it is irelevant, as the islanders still have their enshrined rights under the UN Charter. Basically all the islanders have strong UK connections and are born british as a result of their rights under self determination to remain british, but then they can hardly give up their right to self determination and their connections to the UK in favour of connections with south america or argentina!
@4 I value your opinion. Let me be clear though. Am I “still irrelevant”, is it “still irrelevant” that we provide our political adversaries with ammunition to use against us or is the C24 “still irrelevant”?
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think it is irrelevant where these people were born. I think that it is important to stress this.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0If a Malvinista stands up and uses somebody's birthplace as some kind of weapon, we must point out to them that such a notion is out dated and abhorrent. We don't have anything to hide or any excuses to make.
@5 and @7 If only johnny foreigner would defer to the force and logic of your heart felt assertions, this whole business would be sorted overnight.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0There was a genetic research made in different regions of Armenia that detected the genetic codes prevalent in Welsh,Irish and Basque called the Atlantic Modal Haplotype.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ancient British,Basque myths of an Armenian origin genetic, linguistic and names square with on.
Ancient Britons and ancient Basques o be sure of being the grandsons of Armenians.
(3), (6) and (8) Cmd McDod
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0This “Johnny Foreigner” thanks you Brits, for showing, once again, your British haughtiness towards all us “Johnny Foreigners” ………..
(And thanks for the extra ammo :-)
@7 about @9 It seems that at least one johnny agrees with you - on the grounds that we are all Armenian anyway.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am Armenian? I really never knew.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@10 Think,
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0So touchy,
So thin skinned,
Such a fragile ego,
So easy to defeat.
When will you next be humiliated? Johnny Think?
Keep the extra ammo, you need it more than us.
@10 Happy to oblige as always, although you already have more ammo than you can use effectively.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 010...11...12...
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I never seen personable Armenians
but
I have seen many dowdy Armenians. !
I never seen cheeky Armenians
but
I have seen many coward Armenians. !
I never seen masher Armenians
bu
I have seen many fool Armenians.!
So we don't have consensus on our common Armenian origins. Great, let me get back to safer ground by asserting the innate superiority of a uniquely differentiated British (well, Anglo really) ethnicity over all other lesser ethnic origins.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:30 am - Link - Report abuse 016
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0There has some similarity- genetic DNA- findings.
The committee wont visit the islands and the chair refused to visit the islamds but somehow think people should listen to their waffle.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Er no.
(13) Isolde...
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are so young…
I like “Johnny Think”
It rimes with “Johnny Turk”
(14) Cmd McDod
One thing I learned in life….:
There is no such thing as “enough ammo”
Noah .....Big Ark.....!
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@19 Nelson and Gibson say they can't get enough walks so no more haughtiness from me for the time being.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0(21)
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's Nelson and Nigger............... ;-)
Steve Rothman !
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0@16 Doveoverdover (#) Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:30 am
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Celtic British is best. So there!
This is a positive step and will bring C24 closer to the reality they deny. The FIG should keep inviting C24 to visit the Islands. C-24 members continual refusal makes them look unreasonable. Although it is clear that the Falkland Islands are no longer a colony, the increased Argentine inaccuracies are listened to by many people and every attempt to demonstate the Falkland Islanders exist must surely help.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hope the illegal British colony in Argentina take their inflatable boats out today to support their Queen celebration.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Diamond Jubilee: The Queen no longer rules the waves”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/the_queens_diamond_jubilee/9305678/Diamond-Jubilee-The-Queen-no-longer-rules-the-waves.html#disqus_thread
Marcos
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The last “illegal” attempt to “rule the waves” in the South Atlantic didn't end to well for the Argentines did it?
I know, that was Argentina, it was a military junta...lol.
Wish I could believe I was Armenian, they're a handsome people - wasn't the actor in The Artist Armenian?
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think poor old Marcos is confused once more. There is no British colony in Argentina regardless of the name you give the Falkland Island's. If you believe it is in Argentina then you need some very basic geography lessons.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor boy.
@26 Funny thing is you'll never get the islands back, no matter what anyone says or does.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I reiterate: C-24 “pointless” meetings should take place only in the Non-Self-Governing Territories. How can this pointless, self-serving “committee” make recommendations about territories they have never seen or visited?
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have sent a message to the UN. I doubt I will get an answer. But surely we can obtain sufficient support to get the UN to operate properly instead of bending to imperialist, colonialist states such as argieland and spain?
@26 Marcos
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For being an Argie you seem to spend an inordinate time poring through the British Telegraph for ammunition to sling back to us in your puerile slanging matches. Whatever the number of inflatable boats in the Falklands they seem to do the job as far as the Argie fleet is concerned.Still no sign of them leaving port. As for Argie admirals and generals you do not suffer the same problem as the British because KFC defenestrates them before they topple her Peronist civilian junta.
Andrew “the new generation”Pollard
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Andrew Pollard@FalklandsAndyP
“Tea and cake with Prince William earlier, explained to him that i am on crutches because i fell in a penguin burrow. local knowledge aye!”
This englishman is not used to Argentinean penguins.
Pleeease send the colonial governor next time :-))
@ 28
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course ,The Armenians are very handsome people as individual.
BUT, they have exiguous brains who can be used by any malovolent
powers easily where we can see many many events from History....for example for all i know ,they were used while in Condor Operation in Argentina.
If you are powerful in just cash you can buy Jews to use them at wherever you want.........
If you are powerful in cash and organization you can easily buy Armenians to use them at wherever you want......
If you are powerful in cash, organization and weapons you can easily buy Arabs to use them at whereever you want......
This situation really highlights the difference between Britain, which protects the Falkland Islands, and Argentina which wishes to colonise them. Britain would be happy to see the Falkland Islands as a completely independent free state, Argentina would be very unhappy at that outcome. Enough said.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland Islands have nothing to do with Argentina. The Argentine claims to the islands are geographical only and have NO LEGAL OR MORAL BASIS. The whole sorry population has been indoctrinated with a warped history which is not factual. Their country has many economic problems made worse by their inept government who are using the 'Falkland Islands issue' for purely propaganda purposes at home and abroad to hide the fact that they are incompetent.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BOSSANO REMINDS C24 ECUADOR SEMINAR OF SPAIN’S COLONIAL HISTORY
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25058
.
#35 That's the point that has to be made to the Decolonisation Committee. Britain is perfectly happy to set the Falkland Islanders free, to let them determine their own future and live in peace with their neighbours as a newly independent state.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina on the other hand sees this as the worst possible result. They know that because of the Argentine aggression in 1982, the majority of the Islanders (of whatever nationality they originated from) would always choose to be free rather than Argentine and they would lose any chance to colonise the Islands for themselves.
Argentina regards all Islanders as 'transplanted' people, hypocritically disregarding the fact that over 98.4% of their own population were 'transplanted' from elsewhere in the world and would prefer to deny the Islanders the right to choose their own destiny. As members of the UN, Argentina has to comply with Article 1 and the right of all people to self-determination. They could not deny the British people this right, lest it was denied to their own people. They would not deny that the Islanders (when in Britain) have this right. So what makes these same British citizens lose this inalienable right to self-determination when they are in the Islands? It is Argentina's selfish greed to seize land that does not belong to them that makes them want to deny this right.
Argentina has known full well - throughout its history - that they do not own the Islands. They aspire to it out of greed. Even the Spanish had to accept that the sovereignty issue was not resolved in their favour. It was only through peaceful development of the islands that the Falkland Islanders have proven themselves worthy to be the true custodians of the land. The American Indians knew that they lived in harmony with the land. They took no more than they needed from it and cherished it. The Falkland Islanders have done the same. They cherish the land they live on. They have earned the right to live there in peace.
38 nigelpwsmith
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“British citizens lose this inalienable right to self-determination when they are in the Islands?”
Check what happen to the Chagossians in Diego Garcia.
Britain upholds the 'self-determination' for the inhabitants of its small remaining colonies only when that accords with the UK's economic and strategic interests.
'I hope the illegal British colony in Argentina take their inflatable boats out today to support their Queen celebration.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Diamond Jubilee: The Queen no longer rules the waves”'
...but Argentina waives the rules, Marcos.
39 Marcos Alejandro
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 040 Faulconbridge
Are you both?
Jealous then
Are you both envious then.
Of course you both are,
Indoctrination knows nothing else,
Anti brit
Anti democracy
Anti freedom
Anti rights
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Pro dictatorship,
Pro CFK
Just about sums you both up .
long live the queen,
33 and 39
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We'll send who we choose to represent us wherever we choose and there is nothing you can do about it. In fact it's none of your business. You keep saying that self-determination doesn't apply. You make it sound like if we ever applied for it we would be turned down. Wake up and smell the roses deadbeat; we are already exercising our right to self-determination and international law recognises it. It's not something we might have a go at one day. It's not something we need Argentina's permission for. Our self-determination is alive and well.
LOL!
Deadbeat!
you tell em, joe .
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 Marcos
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you said it brother.
44 forgetit87
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah! He said it alright. Ross Rd is full of removal vans. Everyone's packing up and leaving. Marcos has conquered us.
you didnt brother .
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Check what happen to the Chagossians in Diego Garcia.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain upholds the 'self-determination' for the inhabitants of its small remaining colonies only when that accords with the UK's economic and strategic interests.”
Firstly: We did not take away there self determination, it's an entirely different issue: Ethnic cleansing.
Secondly, because we did something wrong, that is an excuse to repeat it again with the islanders? No it is not.
& 34
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Condor Operation ....... Argentine Armenians ??
open Argentine media ,you can see the Condor members faces !!
44 f0rgetit87, Obrigado.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 “Secondly, because we did something wrong”
I know, you messed up with the wrong continent, 1806/1807/1845 and of course in 1833.
Anyway, back to the story. Well done Andy and Krysteen, I know you'll do us proud and you'll both learn so much from this experience. You are both fine Falkland Islanders who contribute to our richness and so are your parents.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#39 Marcos Alejandro
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened to the Chagossians was a disgrace. Many British accept this. Sadly, the Chagossian's claims to their land has fallen on deaf ears by the Government & the Supreme Court. But their claim is recognised by most British people and by the High Court & Court of Appeal. I am sure that eventually, the Chagossians will get justice.
They were moved to allow the Americans to construct a strategic base which could be used to dominate the Gulf by air - before the United States was invited in by Arab states. The reason given for the forced removal was security issues. The base does hold nuclear weapons and is a target for various opponents (Iran) & terrorist groups.
Nevertheless, the issues over Diego Garcia and the Falkland Islands are entirely different.
Diego Garcia was occupied by indigenous peoples, the Falklands was not.
Ironically, both the Falklands & Diego Garcia were initially colonised by the French, but the British took ownership afterwards.
Before you say that Spain took control of the Falklands from France on April Fools day in 1767, the treaty agreed by Spain & France was that Spain would never vacate/leave the colony, because the French feared that the British would gain sovereignty through the colony they founded in 1765.
The fact is that by leaving the colony in 1811, Spain abrogated the transfer treaty. So Argentina could not 'inherit' what did not belong to their colonial parent.
The Falkland Islanders are now - by all accepted definitions of the term - the natives of the Falkland Islands.
They have as much rights to the Islands, as the Chagossians have to their native land.
Argentina, by contrast, had no right to the Falkland Islands. They attempted to take what did not belong to them, in the same way that a thief or burglar steals property from someone else without their permission.
Argentina will not progress as a nation, until they learn that you cannot inflict sovereignty on peoples that do not wish it.
Does that mean Britain only began progressing only after about 1970 or so?
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(1997 if we included Hong Kong)
Britain has been a 'progressive' country far longer than our enemies or opponents would admit.
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British are usually the first to recognise when we are at fault. presumably because we are always 'navel gazing' or introspective.
We accept our faults and try to correct them. That's how you progress. You learn from your mistakes and try to make sure you don't repeat them.
Some of the largest democratic nations on this planet were part of the British empire. They benefited from the same point of view. Countries like the United States, India, Canada and Australia.
However, you cannot say the same about Argentina though.
Argentina has made the same mistakes again and again and again. Not only trying to conquer people that do not wish it, but also carrying out mass-murder of citizens to seize their land or to cleanse their society of people that are politically opposed.
You've repeated the same economic mistakes as well. At present, inflation is rapidly increasing and Government figures cannot be trusted. To distract the populace, the leaders trot out the old rhetoric about 'Las Malvinas', hoping that it will unite the public with a single cause, whilst they lose their jobs and find themselves worse off.
It's not surprising that the Falkland islanders have no wish to be part of Argentina. After all, who'd want to be murdered simply for having a different point of view? Who's want to live in a country where the standard of living gets worse. Who'd want to be part of a country that does not learn from their mistakes?
Argentina never learned the lesson from the 1982 war. That you can get much further by being friends with the Falkland Islanders than you can by threatening them and trying to destroy their way of life.
@53
Jun 02nd, 2012 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps Britain shows this prodigious knack to admit “fault”, within their borders. I have never seen such an instance on an international scale. Sorry.
And if there was, I would have read about it here LONG ago as it surely would have been proffered as an example for Argentina to follow. Yet, never have.
@3 Doveoverdover (#) What's your problem with Falklanders studying in the UK? Over 400,000 Argentineans - born in Argentina - have Italian (i.e. European Union) passports and vote in Italian General Elections - not to mention those Argentineans of Spanish /Irish / Polish, etc. descent who apply for and get Spanish / Irish / Polish, etc. (European Union) passports, etc..
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The bottom line is that they (the two countries) have to come to an agreement. I was in a British boarding school in Argentina in the 70's. There were a whole slew of Falkland Islanders attending the school and boys attending the boys school. What I remember about the Falklands girls was that they were pretty basic (with the exception of Krysteen's mother and a couple of others, who by the way were living in the Falklands but were basically expats from the UK). The Government of Argentina funded these scholarships to these expensive boarding schools, including trips to and fro and extra travel during exeats etc. The fact of the matter was that most of these girls had huge problems, rotten teeth, hair falling out in clumps, bad English, some couldn't even write. I could go on, most of them ended up going back to the Malvinas having children at 16! The Argentines should have left the Falklands alone in '82 and they would have eventually fizzled out by themselves. 3/4 of the population in the UK had no idea what the hell the Falkland Islands were before the war, I know because I was in Glasgow during the war. The Scottish didn't give two hoots about the whole thing and thought Margaret was a waste of time. Margaret Thatcher used this war as a distraction to what was happening in her own country at the time and Galtieri did exactly the same thing.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Krysteen studied for years in Argentina and traveled all over the country. Her mother was smart and knew she had to give her daughter the same kind of education she got, and learn a second language in the process. Either way, I empathize with the Falkland Islanders. Krysteen and her mother are my friends, as well as others, but I just don't see the Argentines giving up Las Malvinas.
PS Krysteen speaks better Argentine than I do, and I'm Anglo-Argentine! You wouldn't even know she was a Falklander. I wish her every success.
Well I can show you that I admit my faults, because I didn't realise (until I read more about the Chagossians this evening) that there were no native inhabitants on Diego Garcia. They were also uninhabited islands when discovered. The Chagossians were originally from Madagascar and Mozambique.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0However, Argentina's claims that the population was expelled from the Falklands in 1833 (in similarity to the Chagossians) is false, because none of Vernet's settlement were forced to leave. In fact they were welcome to stay and Lt Onslow went to great lengths to persuade them to stay. All but 4 of them did.
The Argentine garrison was told to leave, because they had no right or permission to be in British territory. Territory that had been British since 1765. Vernet and his colony did have permission to be there, because the British Consul, Woodbine Parrish had approved it. He did not approve of Vernet being made military & civil commander though, because Argentina had no right to appoint anyone to office on British sovereign land.
@57
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your redaction, specifically the 1st paragraph, is quite desultory. I got the rest though it is a bit diffuse.
I'm not sure if you are stating there were Chagossians or there were not. Anyway, whatever your viewpoint is, it is your own and not an official British position, which is what I averred to have yet to witness.
@ 56
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are totally wrong regarding 'the two countries' having to come to an agreement.There is absolutely no political or public pressure on the British government to do a deal with Argentina over the Falklands;in fact quite the opposite.
For the Falklanders the invasion of 1982 was the best thing to happen to them . It brought them to the worlds attention and more importantly to the attention of the British people.
Whereas before the British Foreign Office could get away with doing deals over the heads of the local inhabitants (no doubt a habit leftover from the days of the British Empire , which effectively was terminated with the independence of India ) after the Falklands War the British People were 'onto them'.
Just as Argentina developed the 'Malvinas Myth' for its own purposes (even though to outsiders it makes the Argentineans look like hot-headed excitable Latins of the 'spaghetti western ' type,) so Britain started taking an interest in the Falklands in a practical way.
With the development over the last 30 years and the potential oil boom there is no way Britain could or would go back to the pre 1982 negotiating position. If Argentina ever had a chance of taking over the Falklands that has gone forever as far as I can see.
From reading the accounts of the Argentine war veterans impressions when they visited the 'new' Falklands the most upsetting thing for them is that realisation.The normal reaction is that it is a 'different place'. From being a backward 'little village' it has become a thriving 'small town' with a per capita income 4 or 5 times the average Argentinian one; and that is even before any 'big oil' comes on stream.
From a British perspective CFK and her 'team' efforts are laughable and not taken seriously; although Britain is not taking any chances ,given Argentina's track record and backstabbing habits (a la Repsol) which they cannot seem to break.
Let's face it, one cannot backstab an enemy.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Though argentine could careless of how people in Britain perceive us. That fact is irrefragable.
Self-determination in action :-)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://sartma.com/art_9809.html
I thought Spain was the 'Mother Country' to Argentina as it is to many others in Latin America so how come she was stabbed in the back over Repsol/YPF.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any proper country would find it laughable 40 million bullying 3000 yet Argentina thinks it makes them look tough and macho.
It doesn't; it just makes you look like a comical fascist peronist bunch of self deluded losers.
The problem is with the Argentinian national psyche not with the rest of the world.Argentina will not be taken seriously until it grows up. There is no sign of that any time soon.
(56) AsISeeIt
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Excelent and informative comment!
Hope you continue posting in here….
Best regards
El Think
Chubut, Argentina
TWIMC
Dear BP…..
Thanks for your kind reply to our letter…..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9198483/Argentina-satisfied-by-BPs-Falklands-rejection-letter.html
Best regards
El Think
@63 El Thick
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Alicia cannot get anything right with her new job ; first of all she tells Dermot Murnaghan on SKY that Argentina's population is 30 million (not 40 million as per Wikipedia) and now she is writing letters to British Petroleum which changed its name to BP ten years ago.Keep up the good work of winning new friends for the Falklanders and Britain.
She should have stuck to being a trolly dolly.
48
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know few of them
Recently ,I had watched one of them on tv Canal.... laugh
he is the king of liars.,chameleon..like all others.
@64 'bizarre' is the key word in that piece..... just as bizarre as El Thicko posting the link.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 064
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0El(la)Think has the speaking him(her)self wont by different own names.
El(la)Think always makes monologue not dialogue.
@63
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not sure that BP has EVER been interested in developing Falklands Oil and Gas so getting a letter saying they aren't interested isn't hard. Also, what is the progress being made to those who didn't respond in terms of legal action? All I hear are crickets.
However, I'm pleased that you feel happy with the single reply you appear proud to display, compared to the numerous ones originally dispatched.
(61) Mr. Lorton
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for the link.....
http://sartma.com/art_9809.html
A pleasure to read that, without the income produced by the Pirate Oil Exploration Activities around Malvinas, their books would be on the red.
The next few weeks will be more than interesting for the future of the Pirate Oil Exploration Activities around Malvinas.
If BOR produces a duster, it will join DES and ARG on the list of failed oil companies in the South Atlantic......
Then we have only FOGL left with just two rolls of the dices...........
Interesting times indeed..................
@56 Asiseeit What a lot of offensive racist shit.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0@56 - AsISeeIt.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hmm, you post appears to be a load of bollocks. I know that there were certain sections of society who didn't care one wy or the other about the Falkland Islanders, namely the Labour Party, but the overwhelming majority of the population were outraged by this illegal invasion. I remember that the majority of Scottish Regiments were furious that they didn't get the chance to join the fight in the South Atlantic, and there were shows of support for the liberation of the islands in many cities, including Glasgow and Edinburgh.
The point is that Argentina blew any chance of persuading the Falklanders to join them voluntarily by their illegal action in 1982, which voided all previous UNGA resolutions including 2065.
Since 1982 they have been belligerent aggressive neighbours who want to ethnically cleanse the islands.
They haven't improved their attitude at all since then.
As for Margaret Thatcher, as Prime Minister she had to swear an oath to protect British citizens and territory regardless of where it was. If she hadn't sent the task force she would not have been doing her duty. Your personal like or dislike of her is irrelevant.
@63 Fallen back on the possibility of an absence of commercial hydrocarbons rather then the efficacy and originality (abnormality) of Argentinian legal and political pressure again I see.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And my second dog is called Gibson.
@55 Nothing against anyone being educated anywhere but I do object to the regular denial that the Falklands is anything other than a long established British Colony. We continue to demonstrate this reality by actions such as this and wonder why we make little headway in an organisation (C24 and its parent committee) that has already declared that colonialism is anachronistic
But don't get me wrong. I am not a supporter of replacing British colonialism with Argentinian colonialism. I am, though, quite fed up with much of the rest of the world holding the current population of UK responsible for the actions of the previous 10 generations of Brits. Their motives are the jealousy, vindictiveness and pettiness that I first experienced in the prep school playground.
@71 - LEPRecon
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Talk about being 'belligerent and aggressive'. My entry was made so others can see this from a different angle, which is more the human everyday angle, it just adds a personal perspective to this whole complex situation. I still maintain that the Argentines and Falklanders are going to have to come to some sort of arrangement, which I don't see happening in my lifetime. The ethnic cleansing referral is preposterous. There are Welsh communities in Patagonia where only Welsh is spoken, a language which has all but disappeared in it's motherland. As to the Scottish not giving a hoot one way or the other, I was referring to the common folk on the street. THE MAJORITY had no idea the Falklands existed. Unfortunately, I did not have any acquaintances from the Scottish Regiments (who were so aware of the Falklands!), it would have made for a good conversation. I still maintain that Thatcher and Galtieri used this War to divert attention from other problems.
@Alexei There is nothing offensive or racist about my comments. Did you actually READ my entry?
@74 Diversion was a consequence not a cause as far as the UK was concerned.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandshistory.org/sites/default/files/false-falklands-history.pdf
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
@73 - how is my post aggressive and belligerent?
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for your 'common man in the street didn't support the recovery of the Falklands', I believe that you are still talking bollocks. The majority of the population of the UK were outraged at the violent Argentine act, and proud of the way our Armed Forces faced and overcame the difficulties set before them.
As for the two counties have to come to some agreement over the islands, why?
Argentina has no historic, legal or moral claim to the islands, and the UK can't negotiate over sovereignty unless the islanders themselves wish it. Given the Argentine treatment of the islanders in 1982 and since has been aggressive, belligerent and deliberately provocative, why should the islanders even talk to Argentina about the weather let alone sovereignty?
The future of the Falkland Islands is the hands of the Islanders, many of whom can trace their ancestors on the islands back to before Argentina existed. They may one day choose to become fully independent from the UK. Independent, not part of Argentina. Argentina haven't got a legal claim, they know this, hence why they won't take it to the highest authority on the planet, the International Court of Justice. The UK on the other hand have tried to settle this dispute through the ICJ on 3 seperate occasions, but the Agentinans have always refused.
I don't know what planet you're on, but after the liberation of the Falklands, documents were found showin that the Argentinians planned to ethnically cleanse the islands and replace them with Argentine citizens. Also, over the last year or so, the belligerent Argentine government has spouted lots of rhetoric which including (in their words) the removal of the pirates, illegal colonists etc... That is threatening ethnic cleansing.
As for Galteri he certainly invaded the islands as a diversion, but Mrs Thatcher didn't plan this. She did her duty as Prime Minister and sent the necessary forces to liberate the islanders.
(72) Cmd McDod
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have not ”fallen back on the possibility of an absence of commercial hydrocarbons rather then the efficacy and originality of Argentinean legal and political pressure”...............
I have never discarded my theory about an absence of commercial hydrocarbons in Malvinas and the existence of an elaborate hoax to extract many million £ out of the pockets of gullible patriotic, nationalistic, jingoistic British investors.............
And you know perfectly well that your second dog deserves to be called Nigger, or, at least........, Digger ;-)
Give him a Dentastix on me, would you please?
(73) AsISeeIt
Yet another good comment………..
But you will have to learn how to sort the good British posters from the “Turnips”.
Very difficult to dialogue with a “Turnip”…………….
@77 - Mr (I don't) Think.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you changed you pesos for dollars yet?
Please refrain from using offensive terms, as you show yourself to be a racist of the highest order.
As for 'AsISeeIt' he's just another Argentine troll pretending to be British, to give the so called 'alternative' view of the 'working' or 'common' man on the street.
Well, 'AsISeeIt' the reason the Labour party lost the general election in 1983 and the Tories won, was mainly because the Labour party said they would've let Argentina have the Islands.
This did not sit well with the voting public (the common man), and that coupled with the victory in the Falklands gave the Tories a second term, easily won. The Tories then went on to win a 3rd and 4th term because the general public didn't trust the Labour party. In fact, Labour had to completely reinvent itself to 'New Labour' to make itself electable in the publics eyes. So, the common man in Britain were very much in support of the liberation of the Falklands, just as they support self-determination for the people of the Falklands.
Argentina can just keep on crying because they'll never get sovereignty over the islands. The islands themselves will either remain as a British Overseas Territory, or it will one day become a completely independent nation, just like the C24 charter wishes them to.
@76 LEPRecon (#)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:43 pm
Mate, faux indignation and shock is the latest Malvinista tactic. They regurgitate everything that the Brits and Falkland Islanders throw at them. It is because they have no moral arguments of their own so they recycle other peoples and the best of it is that they, in that typical Malvinista way, simply imagine and construct a reason to get all emotional. It's got bugger all to do with anything you have written.
If you want my advice there is no talking to them, they are a lost cause in a wibbly wobbly world of their own. No point talking sense with them. Just have a bit of fun and wind the fuckers up.
New article just released by Pascoe and Pepper:
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“False Falklands History at the United Nations: how Argentina misled the UN in 1964 and still does”:
http://falklandshistory.org/sites/default/files/false-falklands-history.pdf
72 Doveoverdover (#)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:01 pm
Report abuse
” Fallen back on the possibility of an absence of commercial hydrocarbons rather then the efficacy and originality (abnormality) of Argentinian legal and political pressure again I see“
”Rockhopper Exploration: Some potential partners put-off by Falkland location”
Thu 10:15 am by Jamie Ashcroft
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/43596/rockhopper-exploration-some-potential-partners-put-off-by-falkland-location-43596.
No just location problems I will say...Argentinian legal and political pressure I see...
“i am, though, quite fed up with much of the rest of the world holding the current population of UK responsible for the actions of the previous 10 generations of Brits. Their motives are the jealousy, vindictiveness and pettiness that I first experienced in the prep school playground.”
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me ask you this, Brits (this applies to all EUROPEANS though):
You want to hold me, a fairly young argie, responsible for the financial debts of the three prior generations (the default)... So you see no problem with this, when we are talking about money which is nothing compared to human freedom and life.
(for the record, I agree we should pay our debts).
But then when it comes to holding the European nations accountable not for pecuniary arrears, but DEATH, SLAVERY, DERACINATION, and OPPRESION... then the current generation can't be held accountable.
So in short... for money we can hold all generations accountable.
For crimes against humanity, no.
Nice system of mores.
Astonishing.
78 LEPRecon (#)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 03rd, 2012 - 01:59 pm
'AsISeeIt' is probably what she states she is, an Anglo-Argentine lady who cannot decide if she is British or Argentine. There are a lot of a certain generation, now in their 40 - 50's, who suffer from this almost bipolar problem.
I met a whole lot of them during my last years in a bilingual school. Where I think she goes somewhat overboard is in saying that she went to school with Kristeen Ormond who is described as “a young Falkland Islander...”, I feel that AsISeeIt probably went to school with Kristeen's mother as it is very unlikely that a Falkland Islander would have come to Argentina to school since 1982.
The whole business of rotten teeth, falling hair, and getting pregnant at 16 is part of the peronist myth that has been programmed into young Argentine minds since the 1940's. It is sad to see it coming out from someone who probably holds a UK passport.
83 Simon68 The military gorilla is typing for jail again...How are you enjoying yor stay?
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 084 Marcos Alejandro (#)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you mean “from”. You really are a bit stupid Marcos, the nearest I come to the military is when I drive past the local cuartel.
I might be a “gorila”, but not a uniformed one!!!
@AsIseeit
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong on a number of counts
Some have already been highlighted. Here are some more for you.
Myth no.1 Thatcher WANTED the war because she was unpopular in the UK. Wrong.
Thatcher didn't want the war. Thats why the UK went to the UN first rather than taking direct action AND why she asked her buddy President Reagan (the most powerful man in the world) to speak to Galtieri to call off the invasion and to make it entirely clear the UK would defend the Islands. Galtieri ignored Reagan's advice. Argentina had its chance to pullout.
However thats not to say Thatcher and her party didn't milk the victory for all its worth. But wanting the war and taking advantage of the situation created by someone else are two very different things.
Of course its a myth the Argentines want to believe so as to share the responsibility for the war.
It doesnt matter what the Falklands were like 30 years ago. If the community has managed to thrive since then then good for them. Its none of Argentina's business. They are peaceful and are just getting on with their lives. Leave them be.
-There are Welsh communities in Patagonia where only Welsh is spoken, a language which has all but disappeared in it's motherland-
All but dissappeared?! I suggest you have a look on Wikipedia about Wales and the Welsh language.
Most Brits don't know much about the Falklands in the same way they don't know much about a market town 100 miles away from them in the UK. So what?
At the end of the day the FI people are British and the government had a responsibility to defend them. And its an issue that transcends party politics. Many on the left side of politics may have said -ooh the guilt of imperial Britain's past!- but that doesn't mean they agreed with the invasion. At the end of the day it was seen by most as defending democracy against a fascist junta e.g. I can't stand Thatcher or Cameron but Im 100% behind them in their stance against Argentina's aggression
@82 The Argentine financial debts were accumulated over the last few decades. The European acts of oppression occurred centuries ago. It's a little different.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So basically the vermicular “statute of limitations” at play.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In other words, we should in fact give plaudits and kudos to Europe for evading justice. Well, then, evade justice. But you can never restore your honor without facing it.
(83) Simon68
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You write…:
”Where I think she goes somewhat overboard is in saying that she went to school with Kristeen Ormond who is described as “a young Falkland Islander...”
(56) AsISeeIt wrote….:
“What I remember about the Falklands girls was that they were pretty basic (with the exception of Krysteen's mother and a couple of others…….”
I say….:
Poster AsISeeIt was referring to Krysteen Ormond’s MOTHER…….
You should consider asking for a refund from that ”Bilingual School” of yours….
Your English Reading Comprehension = 0
@68 Marcos
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has no legal rights to the Falkland Islands. They confirmed that in 1850 and after that when maps that Argentina acknowledged the fact that the Falkland Islands are nothing to do with Argentina. Who drills for oil and gas around the Falkland Islands can be assured that Argentina has no legal claim to the islands it just has plenty of 'hot air and lies' .
@Think
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simon's reading comprehension ability appears to be excellent. We are all capable of misreading texts at times.
Rather than making personal attacks as you do often why not debate the points raised in a respectful manner?
@Tobers and LEPRecon
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First LEPRecon refers to me as a man then Tobers says that I went to school with Krysteen! I said that 3/4 of the British population were clueless about the Islas Malvinas (Falkland Islands) existence BEFORE the war. And that's a fact. The major reason why the Islands are now better off than they've ever been is because the 'motherland' supports them monetarily and in other ways. Before the war it was a completely different story. The invasion by Argentina was shocking, on all levels, and I think it was wrong. Now you boys really should be brushing up on your English comprehension and that's the last I'm going to write on the subject. Hasta la proxima.
Tobias why are you posting as Truth_Telling_Troll and Tobias in the same thread? I'm getting rapidly bored of Argentine posters with multiple personalities, its against the forum rules and serves no purpose other than some cheap attempt to make people less familiar with these forums believe there's common support for a point when in fact its one person with multiple accounts.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's disingenuous and dishonest.
I'm going to start reporting all of these accounts for a ban.
-then Tobers says that I went to school with Krysteen!-
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I didn't.
The social economic situation of the FI is none of Argentina's business.
How the Islands and the UK interact is no more Argentina's business than BA's interactions with Patagonia being the UK's business.
(92) AsISeeIt
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dont go far away....
I like your style, lass ;-)
Xect, I don't abuse my two names. I made it clear from the beginning and never tried to hide it and furthermore, I don't post in a concatenated form, meaning I wait my turn to post. The only reason I switched here was because some have confused Tobers with me, and I don't want to do that.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the record, Tobias is not my real name of course. Tobias is simply the most interlanguage friendly name in European languages. It is name that fits perfectly in pronounciation and spelling in French, German, Italian, Spanish, English, Scandinavian, Portuguese, Czech, Polish, etc... the most verstatile name. But it is not my real name nor will you ever know my real name.
@Think
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You appear to make intelligent comments and worthy counterpoints at times.
However you troll massively.
(96) Tobias
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are good....
God is better....
;-)
85 Simon68, Yes I meant “from”,but after reading Mr“Think” comment @89 I can tell that you are not that good at the English language either.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry to hurt your British “wannabe” feelings, but a “gorila”, uniformed or not, is the same to me.
There are long lists of uniformed“gorilas”like you that are responsible for committing numerous crimes during the last military government.
@98
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They may be one and the same.
@92AsIseeIt
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You wrong about 3/4 of the British populaltion being clueless about the Falklands issue before the war. It was more like 95% of them. I should know, I was one of them. I was in the Barracks when one of the guys came running in saying Argentina had invaded the the Falkland Islands, I thought what the hell have they invaded a Scottish island for and how the hell did they get there! Things have changed since then, war has that affect on a people.
You also wrong about the motherland, (I have never refered to my country in that form, wonder how many Brits have?) supporting the Islands monetarily. The cost of defence aside, they support themselfs from their own economy.
The cost of that defence is a mere fraction, of what it cost us to station forces in Germany during the Cold War and has you know those forces are no longer there.
@AssISeeIt Describing schoolgirls from the Falkland Islands as balding illiterate retards, and suggesting that if it wasn't for Argentina helpfully invading their homes in 1982 they would have in-bred themselves out of existence, isn't racist and offensive bullshit? Certainly seems like it to me. As for your other assertions that the British people didn't support the subsequent liberation of the Falkland Islands you couldn't be more wrong. They were more united than the baying mobs in Buenos Aires celebrating your ill-fated invasion. Now go away, you sicken me.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said in my post at 101. Most of us were unaware of the Falkland Island issue before the 82 war. Things have certainly changed since then, most of us are now very, very much aware of the Islands and our people there. I also said, war has a way of educating people, very quickly, very quickly indeed. Anyone who knows anything us, must know that having paid the price for the liberty of the Islanders, who in the main are British by decent, we are certainly not going to relinquish that liberty to anyone, without the express consent and wishes of those Islanders.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(100) Total_Turnip_Terminator
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are almost a bigger gasconading fanfaron as I was at your age.
Almost……….. ;-)
Well, be glad I'm not a believer in jactitation.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe not a believer...
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But certainly a practitioner....
;-)
Some of you indocronoughts never seem to understand much, you bring up events that have been superseded,
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many times,
Your past is your future, you can’t change the past, but you learn from it, today, to stop you making the same mistake in the future,
Some of you keep bring up 1833, without the irrelevances, if you have learned anything, it certainly does not show,
1850 should have ended all that went before it,
And defined what is now, the Falklands, the British, and the argentines ,
Right up to 1982, then you went and fxcked it all up,
Since then, instead of learning from the past, getting on and helping the islanders,
Aiding them trading with them, you thus ignore the mistakes of past aggression, and again started the threats abuse intimidation, part blockaded, tell abhorrent lies abt them,
And the British , stirring up all the peaceful intend in south America, putting every body on edge, forcing them to take sides, turning them against the British,
2012, and where has it got you,
Nowhere, the islanders hate you like never before, , they want nothing to do with you,
CFK is muddying the waters wherever she goes, what have you learnt from the past, [nothing]
So you future will thus be the same as you past, aggressive and impolite , rude and insulting , demanding , you have wasted decades , on your government distraction of its own internal problems, that are getting worse,
Will you ever lean ,
Perhaps ,
But not this year you wont .
.if you wish peace, then be peacefull
if you wish violence, then keep going .
Ridibund.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Practitioner of which definition?
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. A false boasting or claim, especially one detrimental to the interests of another.
2. Extreme restlessness or tossing in bed.
My deepest apologies to Tobers for accusing him of something he did not write. My comment regarding my school days with Krysteen's mother were actually meant for Simon68. Thank you 103 reality check for this last post, every bit of it.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@96
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So Tobias - why do you feel the need to have two names?
so he can try to play us all of, against each other .
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0not very nice is it .
@110AsISeeit
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are most welcome. Though I am only stating what most of us Brits who contribute to these pages know to be an irrefutable truth.
112briton.
Sneaky, underhand, dishonest, untrustworthy, dispicable, corrupt, devious, etc,etc. Now who does that remind me of? No good! can not put my finger on it. Spect it will come to me later!!!
We are bored with just Tobias verbal tirades, but to have to suffer another!!!
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She will be back has soon has she has digested her latest meal of alphabet soup, courtesy of Messrs Dictionary and Thesaurus.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@111 - The actual events of the two names are somewhat different to Tobias/TTT explanation.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some of the British/Falklander's posted some derisive comments about him and he vowed never to return except he did two days later using the name Truth_Telling_Troll and when was asked why he was posting under the new name he adopted both names.
And Tobias you are clearly abusing multiple accounts posting using different names in the same thread as two separate people. I do actually like you and don't know why you've taken to this trait, it seems to be all rather perverse.
I really don't understand why this is a common trait of Argentine posters but either way I'm going to start reporting it every time I see it from this point forwards, its completely unnecessary to answer many different posts in the same thread using two different accounts as if there are two accounts.
It is obvious that AsISeeIt does not read the Buenos Aires Herald if he thinks there was and is no plan by Argentina to ethnically cleanse the Falklands of Falklanders and transplant Argentinians there.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Robert Cox recently spilled the beans about the Anaya plan which was based on that very outcome after a successful Argentine invasion and retention of the islands. Apparently he was very impressed by the way the 'world community' had accepted the Indian annexation of Goa as a fait accompli without
too much fuss.
It was a good job the British are not the Portuguese and the Falklands are 300 miles out in the Atlantic.
Don't spout the normal Argie excuse that 'it was the junta' and we are not the same people when everything Argentina does shows that you are the same people and have not changed.I am sure that in some safe in Buenos Aires there is a plan ,waiting to be dusted off, if or when the time is right to re-invade the Falklands,
and do some ethnic cleansing.
Before the Falklanders did not trust Argentina;now the British as well as the Falklanders do not trust Argentina an inch'
@117S
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your wrong about us not trusting them an inch. It is more like a millimetre!!!
I'll tell you what, I'll stick to this name from now on.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I find it hypocritical (for the millionth time with you non-argies), that you said nothing when I was impersonated by people from YOUR side (your country).
typical.
@77 I never had you down as a grand Conspiracy Theorist until now. Fortunately, our joint stake in B&S isn't going to make anyone else rich if it goes down the pan after Stebbing. Gibson enjoyed his up market version of Dentastix and would say thank you if he wasn't a dog. I will hold back the cost of the chew from your balance when I cash in the shares. I'll need to do that while they are still worth something.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@82 Be astonished. Better still, get one or other of the “non-aligned” countries to bring a case against the “DEATH, SLAVERY, DERACINATION, and OPPRESION” perpetrating states. I believe the UN has a place that states can do that sort of thing. Why not get them to tackle “piracy” in the South Atlantic at the same time. It's got to be better than whining about injustice on comment boards and in UN GA sub committees.
@120
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Abderian as the matter may appear to you, it means you and your children are dishonorable bastards, for not having faced justice. If you are fine with that, fine, find your past something worthy of japery. Time does not lead to lavation of your sins.
“Fiat justicia, ruat caelum”
It will one day be here for you and Europe.
@121TTT
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does tobias know you have purloined her hallucinagenic electronic word smith?
Fiat justicia, ruat caelum.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cannot avoid it reality_check, as much as you Europeans wish to.
I will reiterate, you all hold so dear and near dunning Argentina's current generation, yet believe pending justice for genocide, occupation, and colonization has a quicker caducity than pecuniary bonds?
WOW, simply WOW.
And there is no synonym for WOW.
(120) Cmd McDod
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose you prefer the story about Sam Moody and mates, sitting on a Cafe Latte shop in Chichester, gazing at those old Royal Dutch Shell South Atlantic maps and documents, suddenly realizing that there was humongous amounts of commercial Oil just meters to the right from the spot where the Cloggies had found uncommercial Oil some years before……………..
I detect the style of the Sage of Chubut in @123. The resort to Latin as substitute for originality, the research into the furthest reaches of the dictionary and the poetic phrasing all point to Think. Heaven forbid that they are the same person....
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(125) Cmd McDod
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are not....
But the kid is good.......
Ok, I put it in Simple English.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You want Argentina to pay money we need to pay. You think it is right.
You don't want Europe to pay for bigger and bigger crimes. You think that is right.
You are stupid, right?
...and who just happens to be around at the same time with an input he could easily have prepared earlier...
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@123TTT
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cinnamon is not my favourite spice, I much prefer ginger or nutmeg. However if whe are on that subject. I suppose. fuck, shit, damn, blast, bugger me or even that old reliable, gosh! might do just as well. I'll comment on the rest of your posting, has soon as I have located my own electronic word smith and ammend it to translate Latin. Now where hades did I leave it.
(128) Cmd McDod
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who is the “Grand Conspiracy Theorist” now ?
Now you see (non-Europeans), why I don't respect Europeans. They make peveeshly jocose fodder of what is the most plutonian era of their history.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(at least before colonization, they only killed each other).
@130. You are. Recognising your duplicity, or even your multiplicity for that matter, is hardly a Grand Conspiracy when compared with the suggestion that Chichester was the birthplace of the biggest conspiracy since the de Vinci Code (another work of fiction).
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That post were not just meaningless but quite random TTT.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's akin to the racism folk show for people of different colour/religion, it isn't rooted in logic or common sense but in a irrational hatred of people you've never met.
Trying to group all people from Europe together is nonsensical at best.
@133 I quite agree. The sort of thing that might be written by someone who would openly prefer my, admittedly subservient and well endowed, dog to be named Nigger rather than Gibson. (see @77)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Xect, WHAT LANGUAGE DO I HAVE TO USE TO GET THROUFH TO YOU DENSE EUROPEANS???
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the umpteenth time.... How do you not find a massive moral sin to for Europeans to demand Argentina's current generation to pay for 100 years of debts... but what Europe did in Africa, the Americas and Asia (Far worse crimes), not having the same staying power as a debt?
So money is more important than human life and justice.
Enough said. My opinion stands. I am horripilated by European values.
@131TTT
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True, very true, they also ate each other, flavoured with synonom of course!
Answer me one question if you can. Why if Argentina was settled mainly by Europeans, do so many Argentines hold Europeans in contempt? Is it some sort of historic self flagelation (not sure I spelled that right, but I am not going to beat myself up over it.) On a personal note, you are one hell of a piss taker!!!
Because perhaps, distance from that place and the removal of patriotic-colored glasses, has allowed us time to reflect, perpend, ruminate, and judge more fairly what Europe did. Which is why so many of us are virulently tetchy about you (specially in the universities).
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you Europeans reside in the countries themselves, you have far less capability of restrospection and resipiscence, especially considering that you still had empires 50 years ago, and people are still alive in Spain, Germany, France, England, Italy, that were raised with the values that they had a numinous borderline divine (or racial/cultural) destiny to rule over Africa, and Asia (the Americas obviously too far in the past).
It may seem a long time ago, but in the 1950s it was still the prevailing wisdom that Europe was the superior race and culture.
@135 -Tobias.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still slating your ancestors people, I see. Pathetic much?
@136 - Reality Check. Good post, but Tobias or TTT as he is calling himself today is incapable of giving an answer, without resorting to insults or attempting to keep to the subject at hand. He says he doesn't believe that Argentina has a valid claim to the Falklands, then begins rambling on, using archaic English that surely could only come from the 18 or 19c about irrelevancies and his 'racist' hatred for all Europeans, when he is of European descent himself.
Sad really.
However, the Falkland Islanders are showing the world that they exist, and have a right to be heard and seen, and claim their human right of self-determination for themselves, their land and their resources.
@138
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You think I have issues with Europeans? You have no idea some of what they teach in social study classes at the UBA about Europeans. I don't go 1/10 as far as some of those professors do.
European values:
If your great-great-great grandfather took out a bond that defaulted 100 years later, you as his great-great-great grandchild are answerable.
If your great-great-great grandfather was a general calling for opression of local inhabitants in India, Africa, Australia, Phillipines, China, etc, you as his great-great-great grandchild are not answerable.
Because money is more valuable than human life.
Europe in a nutshell.
@137 and all your other identities. You must be exhausted. I know I am. Try to get some sleep before your next shift at the keyboard, that's if your bladder will let you. I know mine will.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0131 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now you see (non-Europeans), why I don't respect Europeans.
[Then we have something in common]
We don’t like Europeans much either .
135 Truth_Telling_Troll
For the umpteenth time....
You brits are not European are you .
[we know, how anoying it is][when people dont listen]
the british falklands are british,
not CFK
The British are as European as the black plague.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LEPREcon
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I do not know wether he/she is using two identities or has two identities, schizophrenia comes to mind.
Cracking celebration on the Thames today, shame about the rain, mind you probably reminded HM of her coronation. Still celebrating, no work tomorrow.
@137 Truth_Telling_Troll And being a Spanish colonial, you will know all about being of a certain higher race, and slaughtering the Aboriginals mate ? On no, that happened years ago in the early stages of your history.....Oh no wait, its going on now would you believe it ?
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course the pro-aboriginal activist in the article is British, and so he sees them as a lesser race, obviously because hes from Europe, and is just satisfying some colonial aspiration of the British, as all British people are colonialist.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/aboriginal-victims-of-argentinas-silent-genocide-395718.html
Cant be right can it, Argentines are saints.......
@144
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course. It is all an effort of propaganda by Britain/USA/NATO (Europe) to find an excuse to gain access to the South American water acquifer by invading northern Argentina on “humanitarian” grounds. This is well known.
That article is a canard, and who trusts the British media anyway. Even the Brits (no you here obviously because you can't bring yourselves to admit it), acknowledge the British print is rags and potboilers. No one in their right minds trusts it.
The British are as European as the black plague
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[actually]
The black plague. was not of European origin,
It was of a lot further east, [but you knew that already ]
And we may be considered in northern Europe, we consider ourselves as none Europeans, and have nothing in common
The all speak a foreign language, lol
.
@139 - Tobias.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are the 1st to complain when someone on here posts sweeping unsupported statements such as 'all RGs are bad, thieves, etc...' but you don't believe it's wrong to make sweeping statements about Europeans? That is why people call you a hypocrite.
As for what you learn at University about Europeans, do they tell you that you and your country exist because of Europeans? Do they tell you that after you gained your independence from Spain you ethnically cleansed the land of natives so your ancestors and 'other' Europeans could steal it?
You state that we say “we are not responsible for the actions of our ancestors because money is more valuable than human life. Europe in a nutshell.”
No you are wrong, Tobias. So wrong.
Its no different than the Ancient Egyptians, Romans, Mongols, Chinese, Vikings, Normans, Christians, Muslims, Germans, French, British, Spanish, Persians or Turkish, all of these (and more not mentioned) invaded and stole land and resources, and not one of them did it for the benefit of anyone but themselves and their own people, because they believe that money/resources are worth more than 'human' life. That's the whole human race in a nutshell including Argentina. Remember your ancestors stole the land and resources of that land by murdering the natives whose land it was.
So Tobias get off the 'moral' high ground, you have no more right to it than anyone else in this instance, and try studying human nature instead. When you do you'll realise just how selfish and cruel the human race can be, but how generous and merciful in can be too.
The poet Coleridge summed it up quite nicely in the 3rd verse of his 'Ode to Tranquility'
'The feeling heart, the searching soul,
To thee I dedicate the whole,
And while within myself I trace,
The greatness of some future race.
Aloof with hermit eye I scan,
The present works of present man.
A wild and dream-like trade of blood and guile,
Too foolish for a tear, too wicked for a smile.'
Oh, by the way, in post 142 are you trying to say the British are not European ? Because i always thought they were.......
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And of course its all fake and propaganda, because we want to invade you. Unlike most say, that your country will fail from within, due to inflation, corruption an the such, we want to invade now.
Of course Argentine Aboriginals are among the best treated natives in the world. Their lands are destroyed and used to crow crops and the such, but they are not forced to accept normal Argentine life, medicine and food. They just get left to make do, as they wish.
145
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0propaganda by Britain/USA/NATO (Europe) to find an excuse to gain access to the South American water
Again not true,
You may have a case of prolific interference by the Americans,
But the only interest the British have ever had in the south Atlantic is the Falklands, [is this not true]
Therefore we are already in the south Atlantic,
The Europeans have there own agenda,
.
@146
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0European means Christianity, bad football, aspirations of colonizing the world, racialism, kings and queens, black plague, and good wine, liquor, and cheese.
Britain si Christian, has bad football, aspired to colonize the world, had racialist views (cultural superiority), has kings and queens, had black plague, and has good liquors.
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walk likes a duck.... it ain't an ant eater.
@147
NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE.
“So Tobias get off the 'moral' high ground, you have no more right to it than anyone else in this instance, and try studying human nature instead.”
So why for all this time and before I began participating here have you EUROPEANS talked down in condescension about Argentina's history?
Advice of the day: take your advice and tell the others to do the same!
89 Think (#)
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 03rd, 2012 - 05:28 pm
“Krysteen studied for years in Argentina and traveled all over the country.”
“PS Krysteen speaks better Argentine than I do, and I'm Anglo-Argentine! You wouldn't even know she was a Falklander. I wish her every success.”
This implies that Kristeen went on studying in Argentina, which I believe to be impossible due to the political situation, Kristeen was born in the Falkland Islands and therefore would find it difficult to live here without one of the “hegemonic” newspapers finding out. From this I deduce that there is an error over generations.
150 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is that, European means Christianity
And Christianity means European,
1, are you a cristinian
2, so the parts of the roman empire that was Christian, was European, like Syria , Jordan ,
And parts of North Africa,
Very interesting,
[Who did you say, your history teacher was ]
.
@150 - Tobias.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your post makes no sense. You appear to be ranting. Try rereading my post and see why people call you a hypocrite.
According to you the only bad things ever done was by Europeans, which as I pointed out was blatantly untrue. You said it was European nature to put possessions/profitt before people. As I pointed out that this is HUMAN nature, every country and tribe in the world in history shows this, including Argentina.
We have not talked down about Argentine history or been condescending, we have only put people straight when blatant lies, distortions or omissions about Argentine history have been made by posters. We have also defended our own history when it has been blatantly distorted by posters on here.
Also, people such as yourself are the 1st to bring up some atrocity that was committed by the British hundreds of years ago, but then become ridiculously defensive when Argentinas less than stellar moments are mentioned.
You really need to grow up Tobias.
im of to my bunk.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no doubt there will be loads of untruths by my return tomorrow .
@150 European = bad football? Have a look at the world rankings, and the domestic league rankings, then rethink that particular comment.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excuse me, but wasn't jesus born in Bethlehem. Christianity is a religion that originated in Middle East, was a minor religious sect until adopted by the Roman Emporer Constantine and spread throughout hir empire, or what was left of it by then. Yet another alternate view of History!
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tobias is clearly a nationalist and so like all fervent followers of ideologies is full of contradictions and insecurity, distrust and hatred for those that don't follow the same ideology.
Jun 03rd, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every argument is made to fit the ideology or it is simply brushed aside as irrelevant. Its the complete opposite of rational thinking.
It takes an awful lot of effort to keep spinning the story and fighting off rational ideas that go against the ideology.
Relax Tobias. Its not that important.
Oh, I stand corrected. Christianity is not inextricably linked with Europe and its history.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its Middle Eastern... or African.
@153 “We have not talked down about Argentine history or been condescending, we have only put people straight when blatant lies”
Most of those lies are from those on your side. Haven't seen many of you correcting them.
It appears that the teachers at Argentine schools teach a lot of hate and the students are willing sponges soaking up the venom. Shame. A good teacher shows a student HOW to learn rather than filling young, impressionable minds with hatred, prejudice and nationalist propoganda. If even one quarter of Tobias' rants are based in reality we shall see yet another generation of young Argentines manipulated beyond all reasonable ability to be tolerant members of the world. They are creating such bitter, anti-social people.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@156 - Reality Check.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct, sir. Christianity started in the middle east, and Jesus wasn't even a Christian! He was Jewish! Gasp, shock, horror.
Christianity was developed decades, if not centuries after Jesus died and was 'resurrected', and basically the New Testament was decided upon by a bunch of men in Constantinople around the 200 AD mark. Saint Jerome was sad to have collated the numerous but loosely affiliated scriptures, and the committee decided which ones were to be included.
They then 'superglued' this to the Tora and called it the Bible.
So very little of Christianity had anything to do with Europe until several hundred years after Jesus' death.
Pity Tobias doesn't appear to know history or religion. But that's idealistic socialist students for you. Fortunately for societies around the world as a whole, they tend to grow out of their 'convictions', once they leave college and have to live in the real world.
@159
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0For what purpose would professors in Argentina by bruiting about and fomenting hatred of European history? I agree with you some of what is taught at some public universities is extreme, and I don't speak of it here.
But for what purpose? A lot of what they teach makes sense, just because Europeans feel offended by it doesn't mean it is any less true.
@142 “The British are as European as the black plague.”
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct, but only because the Black Plague originated in China! Also linking it in the flawed manner you have to britain, just goes to show how stupid and flawed your views are. You are nothing but full of racial, sexual (after all its you talking making false sexual and racial accusations about overs) hatred, that is nothing more than argentine sponsored keyboard warriorism. The amount f time you spend here day in day out amounts to the kind of hours spent working a full time job. So either your on CFK's payline or your just an out of work loser that has no life outside of these comment boards - Get a fucking life; Get a fucking proper job!!
No one here respects you or you views, we all think you are nothing but a perfect example of flawed intelligence and a man that does nothing with his time then try to induce everyone else in to your own sad and pathetic view of life, the world and hatred for those that do not agree with you or your views. Your nothing but a single minded and pathetic excuse for a human being.
Oh and i will not be responding to any of your sick, deluded, selfish, arrogant response to my post, as we all know you will probably start the accusations towards me. Though now i have said that, you will probably avoid m,aking accusations, and simply complain about the kind od description i gave of you - Well arsehole thats my opinion of you and it won't change no matter what you say, as my opinion is based on your own actions and views posted on these very comments boards.
I and everyone else here, including those that read posts but don't post themselves are sick of reading your comments, you are the most prolific poster here and the most prolific poster of vile and disturbing crap!
But I only posted Euro-history...
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you read views like this on these pages, it is hardly bloody suprising that these guys come up with their damn stupid evidence to support their so called claim to the Falkand Islands!
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0What in the name of all that is holy, no pun intended, has been done to them as children? their grasp of history and reality of the world seems to have done a 180% turn. Seriously, it is like they are living on another planet, like some sick episode of the Twighlight Zone. The saddest thing of all is that they do not seem to realise it. You point them towards the truth and they just fucking ignore it!
It is like, trying to hold a conversation with Alice in Wonderland or Porky Pig.
@161 For what purpose? To create people like you. Anti-social, small-minded, bigoted people are easy to manipulate. 'The World Is Against Us' creates nationalistic fools without the intelligence to question propaganda and mis-information.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say you are young. It saddens me to think you are so anti-social when your whole life is ahead of you. I DARE you to leave the keyboard and go out into the world. Meet real people, get some first-hand experience of other cultures, see the wonders that make up this beautiful planet we inhabit, rather than sit there spitting venom and indulging in negativity to saisfy your teenage angst. Go and broaden your narrow mind.
My overwhelming impression and abiding memory of all my years of travel will be the kindness of strangers. People are not so different and 99.9% are good and interesting to meet.
@164-165
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0I really think the impasse is this: countries that don't truckle under the boot of Euro-Americanism are brainwashed, in your view.
The venom was spitted by you all towards us argies, and please stop hiding under the pretext of our agression to the Falklands. Then attack that specific issue. But we know you attack our economy, our culture, our “thinking” at every corner.
If you all spit venom, you can't expect anything else than more venom. Be it a lesson.
@167 Not going to take up the challenge? Of course not. It is so much safer to sit behind a keyboard than experience real life. Speaking of which, I must change for dinner............. with real people.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0@165ElaineB
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hi how are things down south?
I am not religious, but this seems to sum up our efforts at talking to these people;
“Behold, a sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
Supposedly written 2000 years ago but relevent today I think, particularly the last sentence.
Do not worry #166,the reality is this: uk IS FINISHED!!!Just run out from uk,for your life!
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@169m1
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh shit. Do not tell me you have let your girlies loose on our troops. Quick despatch reinforcements immediately. Howhave you been man? missed your insults. Finished! have not even started.
As another contributor typed in another commentary, “What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”. The United Kingdom and Europe hold two millennia of belligerence, treachery, torture, conquest, racism, fundamentalism, murder, genocide, holocaust. Not 20 years, not 200 years, 2000. For contributors from these nations to sustain moral superiority is preposterous. It's hypocrisy. It's wrong (and the United States continues to this day, so they are beneath even this doleful picture).
Jun 04th, 2012 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because you see, to expunge 2000 years of savagery, 60 years do not suffice. It is an affront to the hundreds of millions of dead across Planet Earth due to European policies, for such a lenient adjudication to be made. Especially when many of you lay blame on me for the actions of my country's prior generation (including on arrears when money means nothing against the incommensurable value of life), and continually call on me to address it or apologize for it.
Europe and it's people will have to prove a couple of CENTURIES of peace and debellicization before such moral pinnacle can be (re?)claimed by you.
@171TTT
Jun 04th, 2012 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here are Eight British tribes from 2000 years ago;
01: Caledones
02: Taexali
03: Carvetii
04: Venicones
05: Epidii
06: Damnonii
07: Novantae
08: Selgovae
Ther are another twenty, would you care to start by listing just exactly what crimes these tribes commited. All this talk of prior generations crimes and racism. Shit man, how old is your country. What 170 years, if that? go away and come back when you have a culture has rich has ours, you nothing but a pimple on the backside of history.
“go away and come back when you have a culture has rich has ours, you nothing but a pimple on the backside of history.”
Jun 04th, 2012 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0European humility. I horripilate at the thought of encountering European hubris.
Come, come, your hypothesis was that we british have been responsible for your problems for the last 2000 years. I simply pointed out that infact we have existed for 2000 years, in fact our archeological record goes back at least another 2500 years. That my friend means that we have existed has a recorded people in these islands for nearly, dare I say it, 5000 years. Whilst you on the othere hand, are what, a mere 450? if that, then for 250 of those years you were Spanish interlopers.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 02:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0So you see, I am afraid you can not get away from the fact that we are indeed an ancient and highly cultured race, dare I even mention the words indiginous race. Now with a history has ancient and cultured has that, it is hardly suprising that we have made some mistakes. Whilst you on the other hand, with a mere history of what? now lets be generous, some 400 years, are somewhat hypocrytical to think that you have not also made mistakes. In particular 1982 comes mind.
So you see it really is irrelevent what you think about our history or culture, because we will probably have another 5000 years and more of it. Oh and by the way, our forceswill still be in the Falklands, even then!!!
(132) Cmd McDod
Jun 04th, 2012 - 04:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0”The birthplace of the biggest conspiracy since the de Vinci Code” ????
C’mon…. The British Pirate Oil Adventure in the South Atlantic is nothing more than a couple of billion £ hoax……
And I’m not soooo sure about Chichester….. It may have been a Guilford Cafe-Latte shop.
(134) Cmd McDod
”Someone who would openly prefer my, admittedly subservient and well endowed, dog to be named Nigger rather than Gibson”
Well….
That would be you, lad….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTbv0Pf4F3g
(Some Jethro in Honoria’s honor)
But that is exactly the problem, Europeans love to bandy their rich and extensive history (the positive), but then immediately seek to sever that same link leading to your failings.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0No one can in Argentina can take you seriously when a Brit, or Spaniard, or Frenchie, or Geyman, or Italianni tells us “look at our great history, our culture, our traditions, our parades”, and then when someone raises an objection of your past say “well, that was not us, it was our ancestors”.
The fact you cannot see how to us argies that appears so feeble and borderline craven, is what I fail to comprehend.
@151 Simon68
Jun 04th, 2012 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“This implies that Kristeen went on studying in Argentina, which I believe to be impossible due to the political situation, Kristeen was born in the Falkland Islands and therefore would find it difficult to live here without one of the “hegemonic” newspapers finding out. From this I deduce that there is an error over generations.”
Well you deduce wrong. Krysteen studied in Cordoba for several years, and judging by her fluency in Argentine Spanish more than just several. I met her for the first time when she accompanied her mother to a school reunion (the same English boarding school myself and her mother attended in the 70s) which was held two or three years ago. Krysteen joined us for the reunion. She was already in Argentina studying and remained there studying long after her mother returned to the Malvinas and I returned to my country. Wake up and smell the mate. I have not made any errors on this story. I cannot understand why you would think it impossible that Krysteen studied in Argentina. The fact that she's a Falkland Islander was never an issue for her or for anyone else. The only one that seems to have an issue with it is yourself. You obviously have a warped idea of how things are and you are finding it very difficult to accept.
176: Any normal minded British or any other European with a colonial past fully accepts the mistakes and bullying made in the name of empire building, the important thing is making good out of what was bad for many years. The Commonwealth looks to heal those wounds and overseas aid is a priority for the UK government for development of certain countries, including those we didn't even “own” like, say, Argentina. No, we don't have a problem admitting our past, but Argentina however says on one hand the 1982 war was the junta bla bla wasn't us no no but then marks the anniversary of the war and then tries to blame the mistreatment of it's own war dead on the UK. Additionally, we all know if the Junta had fallen but they had won the war, Argentina wouldn't have given the islands back because “it was the junta, not us, here they are back”. They would have kept them, and this is why their claim “it wasn't us” is such tosh and rubbish.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0@175 As a matter of semantics, the activities of the publicly quoted companies conducting oil exploration in the South Atlantic would be more accurately described as privateering. Still lucrative but less risky than piracy.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 06:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0@172 reality check,
Jun 04th, 2012 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot the Brigantes from Yorkshire(where my Dad's from).
l believe they gave the invading Romans a lot of trouble.
How could you forget the lceni? shock, horror.
Boudicca's tribe. They slaughtered hundreds of Roman civilians.
l suppose we “inherit” their guilt too!
Just think, these RGs are probably partly descended from the Romans & we are undoubtedly partly descended from the British tribes.
So we were kicking proto-RG arse 2000 years ago!
No wonder that they don't like us!
lts in the genes.
Watch this documentary clip about the Toba tribes. I guess Tobias or Truth Telling Troll, or whatever other names he/ she / it and the rest of the propaganda arm of Maximo's Youth go by, was right. Europeans are a terrible race because they sure as hell have systematically f#cked over the poor Toba people. Europeans who took over the country currently known as Argentina, that is.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QV5OGsyOcPw
@176TTT
Jun 04th, 2012 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now see, there you again, blaming the sins of the fathers on the sons, only many, many, many generations removed. Now me, I can trace my line to my 9X Grandfather, Jenkin, back to being a farm labourer living in Coity. All the following generations, with the exception of me, lived in the same area. modern times, easier to travel and all that, you see. Ask your Patagonian friends where Coity is? they will know. His sons and grandsons were all tailors, with the exception of my Grandfather and father. All rather boring really, I personally would have loved them to have been pirates or conquering soldiers, still, I suppose they could have made their uniforms or at least repaired them! I suppose some of the stitches may have not been up to standard, but I would not call that a failing. Of course, we his decendants have been trying to live down Jenkins bloody colonial past, Oh! the shame of it! However it does mean that I am in all probability a Celt and hence a Briton, or as you would have it a nasty, nasty European and do in fact have a long and cultured history. Now explain again what is feeble or craven about that because, yes, I am having difficulty in comprehending it. Just as I I am having difficulty in comprehending your countries, young and uncultured has she is, claim to the Falkland Islands.
The comments are from California /Asia Pacific !
Jun 04th, 2012 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@176 TTT
Jun 04th, 2012 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0A debt is something you incur voluntarily, together with the contractual obligation to pay it back.
To subsequently maintain that this obligation does not apply to you because of the historical wickedness of your forebears from another continent is as spectacular an example of viveza criolla as I have seen anywhere.
Given, as it has been argued, that respect of property rights and contract law is one of the foundations of civilization, I am glad to see that this terminally short-sighted attitude isn't adopted by Argentine governments. That would bode ill for the future.
Oh no, wait ......
@171 - Tobias, for a so called student of history you seem to have forgotten one of the most important points that are made when studying history.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Either your professors at university failed to mention it, or maybe you were talking and missed it. This important point is this. Historians don't judge, you are supposed to be impartial, collect and collate evidence from numerous sources and then propose theories; and most importantly you shouldn't judge history using today's laws and codes of morality.
I've warned you before about you blatant racism against Europeans, which seems to have evolved into a full blown psychotic episode.
1stly, since you are Argentinian there is a very high probability that your ancestors were European (which you fail to confirm or deny - but that's your right), so in your racist rants you are also slating your own ancestors.
You blame Europeans for all the bad things that happened in the world in the last 2,000 years, completely ignoring the fact that China, the Mongols, the Japanese, Thailand, Persians, and the muslims of various nations all had vast empires at one time or another, and committed bad things too. But bad by today's morals, not by their own morals at the time. You see the difference?
You see, 2,000 years ago it was deemed perfectly moral to crucify a thief, by todays standards we would consider it immoral.
But what right do you have, Tobias, to judge people from hundreds of years ago by today's moral standards and laws?
This makes me believe that you don't really study history at university at all, you are just trolling and trying to big yourself up, and all you are doing is making a fool out of yourself.
The Falkland Islanders have history, law and morality on their side. Argentina has nothing, hence the need to 'invent' a claim.
@162 “But I only posted Euro-history...”
Jun 04th, 2012 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0No you didn't (and for the record you need to go back to school because your version of european history is wrong). You actually posted anti european propaganda, and hatred. Whilst at the same time proved just how dishonourable you are, with regards to your country paying back debts from 100 years ago. Loans between states do not cease to exist, whether it takes 1 year or 2,000 years for the debtor state to pay back, it will still exist till the full contractaul amount is paid back with interest. Thats who the world works, whether you like it or not, its been like that since the very start on civilisation.
As for crimes and atorcities committed by our british ancestors, well as your argentines like to say “We are not responsible for what our ancestors did” - Therefore by that logic how can you hold us responsible for what our british ancestors did? You can not, as we are simply not responsible for the actions that occured at the hands of those that came before us. The state however is, unless like many atorcities committed by british soldiers during the time of the empire and before that, they were committed without state approval but as a result of an over reaction by the commanding officers, as am sure your aware in those days there was no way to communicate with the state except by letter, that would take weeks or months for a return letter by sea. Therefore commanders in those day had to act on their own initiative, hence why the atrocities happened, purely as a result of heavy handed commanders. Yet argentina does not have that excuse for what happened in patagonia, as civilians also hunted and slaughter the natives, for what? For reasources such as gold! Did argentina compensate the natives like the UK compensated those who were directly effected by the atrocities committed by british commanders without the approval of the state? No argentina did not. Which just goes to say a hell of a lot about you and your morals!!
“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
Jun 04th, 2012 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do not get me wrong, I aint no member of the god squad, but this was written in a book over 2000 years ago, seems that those folks back then knew more then than some people do today.
Whilst you on the other hand, with a mere history of what? now lets be generous, some 400 years, are somewhat hypocrytical
Jun 04th, 2012 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now the incredible logic of UNreality.....
So the tribes are 2000 years...Still has a country uk is very new.....
The Argentines,genetically have as much history has yours“tribes”...What pathetic logic..
Oh shit. Do not tell me you have let your girlies loose on our troops. Quick despatch reinforcements immediately. Howhave you been man? missed your insults. Finished! have not even started
AHAHAHAHAH Another Idiot brits...Argentina have nothing to do with your fate....uk has created tooo many enemies,a lot closer than Argentina,
@188M1
Jun 04th, 2012 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Simply responding to your chidish predilection towards insulting us Brits. Oh I know, I know, I know! I really should not, has it merely lowers me down to your level and that is low, very, very low!!!
171 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 04th, 2012 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0''The United Kingdom and Europe hold two millennia of belligerence, treachery, torture, conquest, racism, fundamentalism, murder, genocide, holocaust. Not 20 years, not 200 years, 2000.''
Are you for real?
The UK didn't even exist until 1707. Prior to that our history went along roughly the same lines as everywhere else in the world; a mixture of peaceful migrations, less peaceful invasions, usually Britain being invaded by someone else, and a mixing of civilisations and cultures to produce what we have today.
There is nothing 'truth -telling' about you. You are just a troll. You don't know anything about history, and don't mind parading your ignorance to entertain us, so I suppose you do have some worth.
You also have a fantastic talent for finding big words in the dictionary and using them out of context. It's very funny; don't stop.
My current favourite....
'colonization has a quicker caducity than pecuniary bonds?'
Quite.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/06/04/argentine-will-issue-bills-with-the-likeness-of-the-iconic-evita-peron
Jun 04th, 2012 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this the so-called respect you all claim to show Argentina?
I guess being a criminal, hustling South American (ElaineB's words, as usual with her feeble attempts at charientism), I am to crass of mind to discern the difference between insult, obloquy, and respect in the commentary section of that news article.
@178
You state some decent observations. I for one don't waive responsibility for the war by assigning culpability solely to the Junta. The only caveat is that the invasion was a sneak attack, thus it is difficult for you to argue that (unlike Germany for example), the country had mobilized for years prior inexorably towards war (and everyone knew it).
@181
It is a complete lie that it is government policy today to exterminate the indians. It is trully appalling that Mercopress permits this kind of garbage to be propagated with impunity and I will from now on report all attempts to further bruit about this canard.
@182
I can't simplify my language further. It is duplicitous to claim glory to your culture and traditions and past achievements (AS YOUR OWN), as Europeans do, but then proceed to ascribe guilt of historical crimes to those who came before them. Which leads me to “HansNiesund”...
@184
So again, if your ancestors killed millions of people (not claiming they did, but for this example), then you are not responsible.
If my ancestors took a debt, then I'm responsible.
You don't see anything askew with your mores...
@185
I know a lot about history, but in this website I am by its nature giving opinion. Furthermore, you exagerate when you claim I said Europeans are responsible for ALL the world's ills; that is your construed conclusion, which then became a subreption since you purposely misinterpreted me and from those misinterpretations reached a conclusion.
Using your logic: why do you judge my ancestors for the indian question?
@51 You need to do more research. There are no, and never have been, any indigenous “Chagossians”. They are actually Ilois. They “originate” from Africa, notably Madasgar, Mozambique and Mauritius. They were imported as plantation slaves by the French in 1786. Others arrived as fishermen, farmers, and coconut plantation workers during the 19th century. They have been more than adequately compensated for being moved off land that not one of them ever owned any part of.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@73 There is NO possibility of the Falklanders and the argies making an arrangement. Not least because argies decline to recognise that the Islanders exist. Geddit?
@88 Not a problem. You've never had any!
@121 When were you planning on facing justice for the millions you have murdered?
@127 Not as stupid as you!
@135 How can you criticise European values when you don't have ANY?
@139 Natives are scum and worthy only of extermination. South America in a nutshell!
@142 The only thing that Europe and Britain has in common is that Europe is where Britain craps.
@145 Nope. You've been “exterminating” the natives for at least 600 years.
@150 Can we do to you what you did to the indigenous South Americans?
@158 We don't tell lies. You do!
@161 That would be your attempt to disassociate yourself from your responsibilities.
@166 So now it's Euro-Americanism? Aren't you “american”? No. You're not. You're an abortion.
@169 When the UK is “finished”, it will be Armageddon. We'll make sure of it. Coming?
@171 Thing is; you animals killed 255 British servicemen. You're going to need to grovel for 2 MILLENNIA to, maybe, make up for that.
@188 Pig-ignorant drivel. Pigs = argies. That works.
@191 And thereby you demonstrate your irresponsibility, your culpability, your ignorance, your lack of education, your responsibility and your mendaciousness. http://falklandshistory.org/sites/default/files/false-falklands-history.pdf See whether you can read and understand it all!
@191
Jun 04th, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has no legal rights to the Falkland Islands. Argentina signed a 'Convention of Settlement' treaty with Great Britain in 1850. Argentina then had maps produced in the 1870s and 1880s, most notably the '1882 Latzina Map' which showed the Falklands/Malvinas in a different colour acknowledging that the Islands were not part of Argentina. Argentina's claims to the Falkland Islands have no legal basis and are based on misinformation, lies and propaganda.
TTT: You don't see anything askew with your mores...
Jun 04th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, no I don't.
When millions of people do get killed, it is because of a breakdown in civilization. All of our ancestors are guilty of that (to varying degrees, of course), yet nobody can be held personally liable for events which occurred before they were born. Try asking any German.
Welshing on a deal is a different matter. Legality is precisely one of these mechanisms which have evolved to prevent millions of people getting killed in the first place. As Bertie Wooster once said “Say what you like about civilization, but there are times when it comes in dashed handy”. And you do seem to be rather keen on it when you think it promotes your own case.
And now regarding your debts, the civilized legality is quite clear : successor governments are liable for the agreements entered into by their predecessors. If this isn't the case, you have just abolished that international law you are so fond of, huge chunks of domestic law as well, and set civilization back quite some way.
In certain circumstance this might be pretty convenient, and indeed historically and even recently your governments have repudiated agreements willy-nilly like it was all nothing to do with them. But as it is in personal life, this kind of cavalier dishonesty is a loser's strategy in the long term, since the decent evolving majority will have as little to do with you as they can manage.
So your responsibility, in this case, is not towards your ancestors, but towards your fellow citizens and your descendants. May they live long and prosper.
Or to put it another way, you can't be held responsible for the past, but you can be held responsible for the future.
While I am conscious that your succint commentary on the subject of financial arrears (and how such pecuniary matters are best brought to a satisfactory resolution), lists some particular points worthy of reflection, I still fail to see how it is moral to induce hunger on a generation for the debts of another.
Jun 04th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed, at one point in time slavery was deemed civilized, we know better now. So just because some institution or concept is broadly defined as civilized by the contemporaries of their time, it does not categorically signify that such concept is in fact civilized.
We even experience this today: individuals who are coeval circa 50 years ago may hold to the crotchet that interracialism is abhorrent. But coevals of my generation view that notion itself as execrable.
(194) HansNiesund
Jun 04th, 2012 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“And now regarding your debts, the civilized legality is quite clear : successor governments are liable for the agreements entered into by their predecessors”
I say:
Go and tell that to Iceland.......or Ireland.... or Greece...... or Spain.......or Portugal...... or.....
@195 TTT
Jun 04th, 2012 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I still fail to see how it is moral to induce hunger on a generation for the debts of another. ”
Me too. That's why I never suggested any such thing.
@196 Think
“Go and tell that to Iceland.......or Ireland.... or Greece...... or Spain.......or Portugal......”
The entire dilemma is that these countries, for the most part, understand this perfectly. You must have missed, for example, the Irish referendum, or the strenuous efforts the Greeks have undoubtedly made. Only Iceland has gone the Argentina route, and is by no means out of the woods yet, with cases pending at the EEA. And who would ever put money into an Icelandic bank now?
(197) HansNiesund
Jun 04th, 2012 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You ask:
“Who would ever put money into an Icelandic bank now?”
I say:
You don't follow the economy news ............. do you?
The Scandinavian countries that are not in the Euro (Denmark, Sweden, Norway and ................yes;.... Iceland) are currently being flodded by foreign currency in search of a safe haven in case of the Euro going down.
@198 Think
Jun 04th, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forgot the UK off that list, bond yields now the lowest since the 1700s.
What is happening in Iceland is not that money is going into banks, it is that money is going into government bonds following a rise in their ratings. The interesting difference with the Argentine case is that Iceland refused to bail out private debt, whereas Argentina defaulted public debt.
I must also be missing currency flowing into the Argentine peso in search of a safe haven.
(199) Hans Niesund
Jun 04th, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes…. You are missing quite a lot of things…..
1) The foreign monies buying Icelandic government bonds are going directly into the Icelandic National Bank.
2) The Icelandic private debt, as you call it, was guaranteed by the Icelandic State. That makes it, for all practical purposes, a public debt. That’s precisely why the speculators luuuved little Iceland in the 00’s, nearly as much as they luuuved exotic Argentina in the 90’s.
3) The Greek public debt has been shaved to nearly 85% already. Very close to the negotiated agreement Argentina reached with 95% of its creditors during the 00’s.
4) You are also missing the hundreds if not thousands of court cases won by European private investors against their financial advisors and banks that sold them those Argentinean Junk Dollar Bonds with an annual yield of ~20% as a ”safe investment”.
The argument of one judge in Italy to slam the bank was that even a 16 years old economics student could calculate that such thing was not feasible.
The morale being….. “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't”
@200
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes…. You are missing quite a lot of things…”
I think not. Most of this is irrelevant to anything I said, with the exception of your remark about the Icelandic state guarantee, which is wrong.
...........................201
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you fool ?
Open a blog write anythings whichever you want instead of wasting your time talking yourself here having unknown publishing place and not read over seriously
@199
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did miss the Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian defaults ...
@202
What?
How could you forget the lceni?
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That’s better,
They would teach Toby and TTT a thing or two .
Long live the iceni and . Boudicca
//////////////////////////
188 Malvinero1
Is from the ancient escapist tribe,
They pop up every millennium or so, trying to escape themselves lol.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[T T T , TOBY TOBERS] all the same, we say,
Everywhere we go, every pub, inn , tavern , drinking den , and dockside hole,
You will find Toby jugs, always hanging around , watching you , listening to you ,
Getting you drunk, and filling you with lies, to confuse your minds ,
Our advice, -never let a Toby jug empty its contents into you,
Resist him, ignore his lies, , and drink water,
No more toby, no more TTT , and no more European history from a alcoholic jug lolol.
.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/9311204/Argentina-to-immediately-launch-criminal-proceedings-against-UK-oil-firms-operating-off-Falklands-Islands.html
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0191
Jun 04th, 2012 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can't hide the truth TTT or whatever your name is. You hypocritical racist little shit.
If an argentine court finds in CFK;S favour, as it will
Jun 04th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How will she then, enforce it,
Will she send the Argentina navy to arrest them,
Land argentine police on the islands to arrest them.
This we have got to see .lol.
.
#78 “the reason the Labour party lost the general election in 1983 and the Tories won, was mainly because the Labour party said they would've let Argentina have the Islands”
Jun 05th, 2012 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Leprecon thats a lie, or at least you're wrong. Michael Foot the leader of the Labour Party supported the war, mainly because he saw the junta as fascist, and even George Galloway said recently in the article that I posted that he didn't oppose it as Galtieri had been the agressor and something had to be done to protect British passport holders (he went on to say that does not necessarily mean they have “self-determination”). The Militant which was then the biggest Trot group and the only one still in the Labour Party took a lot of stick from groups like the SWP (which did oppose the war but was never going to win the election anyway!) for its rather bizarre position of a socialist federation of Britain and Argentina as a solution to the dispute. Though I must say if that let Cristina run Britain today, come back crazy Millies, all is forgiven....
Though I must say if that let Cristina run Britain today
Jun 05th, 2012 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if she run the UK, the problem with argentina would never exist,
she would have whacked them, well before now .
Though I must say if that let Cristina run Britain today
Jun 05th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0if she run the UK, the problem with argentina would never exist,
she would have whacked them, well before now
Do not worry,the CORRUPT conservatives,together with labor,had wrecked uk!
uk is FINISHED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbLfje8_jgI
Thanks to stupid people like you britton!
#209 What do you mean, that she'd be a bit of a Maggie? From you I suppose thats a compliment!
Jun 05th, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it is proberbly a fact,
Jun 05th, 2012 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she would not pussy foot arround, if she had our power at her feet,
is this not true.
@208 - BK
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is not a lie. Most of the Labour MPs in opposition though that we should not send the task force, and basically give away the Falklands.
Michael Foot did eventually support the sending of the task force (though initially he was against any military action), but some Labour MPs, such as Tony Benn, were all for throwing the Falkland Islanders to the wolves. I remember it very well.
That is why they lost the next general election, AND the 2 following that, because how could anyone in the country trust that Labour wouldn't start selling out Britain?
If they had not reinvented themselves I doubt very much they would have ever been elected in 1997. But true to Labours form the new lot practically bankrupted the country whilst in power.
As Margaret Thatcher once said, “the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money.”
And never a truer word has ever been said about socialists. Unfortunately the people of Argentina are learning that the hard way too.
#212 Yes she's certainly a strong woman =) But if she was running Britain and Argentina then there would be no sovereignty dispute, we'd be one country. That was Militant's policy, a bit mad I know! If she was just running Britain she'd have to walk a fine line beteen righting past wrongs and, as you say, walking all over anyone who messed with our new progressive country - but I'm sure such a tough and smart lady would find a way =)
Jun 06th, 2012 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Reading the rants of Tobias and others I think I can see where this bitter anti-European animosity, along with the fanatical and irrational need to possess the Falkland Islands, and the apparent support from some other South and Central American countries, comes from. It seems Argentines, and other South American colonists, suffer from a national inferiority complex. I'm not asserting for a moment that they are inferior, despite their dysfunctional political systems and massively inequitable social structures, these are their historical legacy, not biologically determined.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have lived in South America in the past for a couple of years, Brazil as it happens, and there is undeniably a distinct vein of anti- (north) American and anti-European sentiment. In my personal experience, in Brazil, hearing an english accent would sometimes result in pre-emptive and unprovoked, overly defensive protestations that the South American nation in question is equal to or superior to Europe/North America, despite the fact that no such assertion was offered in the first place.
I was pleasantly surprised to find, having assured my accuser that I was English, and not 'Americano' as accused, that the apparent hostility would lessen considerably. Brazilians seem to think that North Americans are immensely arrogant, but that Europeans are slightly less so. Interestingly though they seemed, in my experience, to dislike Argentines more than either, regarding them as particularly arrogant. I enquired of a Brazilian the reasons for this apparent disdain for Argentines. The explanation was quite ironic, it seems that Argentines regard themselves as the most 'European' of all South Americans. The fact that the Argentine press referred to the Brazilian national football team as 'macaquinhos' or 'little monkeys', didn't go down well either. In 2004 I watched the Copa América final, Brazil v Argentina, in a bar in Brazil, I think I was cheering for Brazil louder than the locals, who were already
@215 - Alexi.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are not wrong. There is an almost instinctive reaction in some South American countries to blame North America and Europe for all their ills. Argentina just happens to be the most vocal of all.
I'm not sure if it's an inferiority complex or just jealousy. I mean their countries were colonised around the same time as North America. They have just as many natural resources if not more than North America, yet they don't seem able to develop their countries.
It's strange that all English speaking colony's did quite well for themselves, in fact eventually becoming as successful as or even outstripping the 'mother land' (so to speak) economically. The USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia have all done very well for themselves since independence.
So why didn't the South Americas follow suit, once they'd gained their own independence? It's quite fascinating isn't it? Is it the weather? The environment? It can't be because they're in the southern hemisphere because both Australia and New Zealand do very well for themselves.
Maybe it's attitude. And in this case the Mediterranean attitude, which is quite laid back, compare to British and Northern European which tends to be a bit more pro-active and getting on with things that need to be done.
Or maybe it's because all English speaking countries have laws based upon
British law, which invoked 'innocent until proven guilty' and the right to be judged by 12 men and true, all thanks to King Henry II, and on Magna Carta and subsequent 'Bills of Rights'.
I wonder if anyone has done any studies regarding this phenomenon?
@216 LEPRecon Maybe it is something to do with the southern European heritage. Compare Mexico (Spanish) with the United States (English), as well as the other examples you cite. The Mexicans seem to harbour resentment and animosity toward their northern neighbour, yet can't stop themselves from wanting to emigrate to the USA in their millions.
Jun 06th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There does seem to be a difference between the southern and northern European attitude to work and corruption. Even within Italy, the north seems to want to cut the south free, regarding them as a liability.
I thought the Euro was, in principle, a good idea. Sharing a currency with France, Germany and other countries with traditionally stable economies and lower rates of political corruption. However, sharing a currency with more profligate countries of southern Europe such as Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, whose currencies, the drachma , peseta, escudo and lira were always a bit of a joke, seemed to be asking for trouble, and so it has come to pass.
Unfortunately the way things are going, we seem to be getting more like them than the other way around. It is hard to like and respect people who don't like you back, for whatever reason. And there's no doubt, if we go by many of the Argentine contributors here, they don't like us and they want what we have. They offer nothing in return.
@Alexei & LEPRecon,
Jun 06th, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lts because of corruption, lies, self-delusions & incompetence.
Other countries have it too, but no-where as bad as Argentina.
They also have the traditions of the armed forces taking over government, which we all don't have.
Even in communist Russia, the military was subordinate to the civilian government.
An army serves the country, it does not rule it.
@218 I'm putting it down to core cultural components whereby people embody the concept “Viveza criolla”.
Jun 07th, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can also see a link between South American Socialism [Nazi'ism] and lebensraum:
Venezeula 'greedily wants' part of Guyana
Bolivia 'greedily wants' part of Chile
Argentina 'greedily wants' the Falklands
[Spain 'greedily wants' Gibraltar] - added for reference.
There is this underlying insepid greed in their cultures, seeing what other people have and then demanding it for themselves, even when their own countries are utterly utterly sh!t.
It's some kind of savagery which should be studied further.
@Alexei
Jun 07th, 2012 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0have a look at the article below
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/299154/what-s-wrong-argentina-matthew-shaffer?pg=1
Then read some of the comments... They really helped me understand the Argentine mentality.
My favourite comment is 'SouthAmericaObserver '.
Its too big to link.
i wonder if kfc will stay to hear the falklanders or not.
Jun 08th, 2012 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Isolde, Alexei & LEPRecon
Jun 08th, 2012 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is a basket case of a country. I know that we moan about the UK and HMG, but at least we have a stable system.
The Argentines have never made the same out of their country as the Australians and New Zealanders did, or the Yanks. The reason is instability - just as in the article posted by steve.
This is one reason why they hate the falklanders so much - their realtive success and wealth shows the lie of Argentinas' delusions of grandeur. It contrasts with the demagogue retoric, stubborn poverty levels and endemic corruption (far worse than ours). The lack of respect for the law by Argentine governments also contrasts jarringly with the situation in the UK and the FI.
To cope with this the Argentines want to annex the islands - the dream of grabbing new land - is partly to disinherit those they see as unfairly prosperous compared to themselves. In one word - JEALOSY.
Another motivator is a deep down feeling they have that if only they had held onto the Falklands somehow their country would be better, and it is our “fault” that it is not.
This displays a lack of a sense of responsiblity for their own nations problems. You can see it in the way they try to sweep 1982 under the carpet - almost like it was an invasion by aliens.
Over time this feeling has creeped to extend to cover South Georgia and other of our Antartic territories.
This kind of behaviour is irrational and deeply ingrained - and it makes Argentina an unstable and untrustworthy partner and an ongoing threat to our national security. We will not be able to let our gaurds drop in our lifetimes. If we do, the Argentinians will try to stab us in the back again- to satiate their feelings of entitlement to ours, and the Falkanders, property.
@222 SHB; you're not wrong. Jealousy is the ruination of many countries, just look at modern China. They also exist under a 'communist in name only' government that changes it's tune whenever it feels like and just rebrands the new strategy as whatever-with-chinese-characteristics and keeps it under the same commie umbrella so that the chinese don't have to admit they go it wrong.
Jun 08th, 2012 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Modern china is unable to deliver socialism in any kind because internally it's crippled by corruption, the result of having been shafted by chairman mao for 20 years during the cultural revolution. As a result Japan became super-rich and prosperous and the Chinese nation became bloated with individual people becoming very very poor [with a few mega-rich].
Japan is continuously blamed for the ills of China, because they're not culturally capable of accepting any kind of blame for their own actions. Jealousy underlies this blame, and is propagated from generation to generation through their sh!t television shows.
On the Jubilee weekend I got talking to a Mexican worker on his food break at one of my local pubs. I asked him what he thought about the Argentinian Goverment ranting over the Falklands lately and he replied “Fuck 'em, they mean nothing to us, we dont give a shit about them” That ended the conversation about Argentina.
Jun 08th, 2012 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@75 Lord Tom:
Thanks for posting this (your) link on the Falklands: falklandshistory.org/sites/default/files/false-falklands-history.pdf
It was very interesting reading, and I guess the authors are from a legal background?
Hard work to read it all in one go, although their points 6-11 were the most interesting as it was the legal stuff. Every Argentinian schoolchild should be forced to read this. (And then demand a democracy that works for them, and their nation, not a side-tracking, distracting one).
Matters nought realy. I challenge just one Argentine contributors to these pages to tell me of one thing, in science, medicine, engineering etc, etc that originated from their country. That they gave to the world. Just one!! The rails they travelled on, the steam that drove the trains and ships, the telephones, the televisions, the antibiotics that cured their children and on and on. Where the hell did they think they originated??? Not all here, but a fucking lot of them. So Think. Guzz, Tobias, Malv1 and the rest of you. Fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop being so fucking jealous, your simply not in our leauge. End of!!!!!!!!!!!
Jun 08th, 2012 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blimey mate!
Jun 08th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On another post I commended Tobias and then realised on this topic it was Tobers I meant.
Basic insults leveled at another nation get everyone going nowhere fast.
To true. but it does piss you off when they when they try to make you the villian of the the world. When they blame you centuries after events for everything from the plague, to Hiv. Okay, I am going overboard, but fuck them!! Just what have they done bad or good that effected the rest of us in the modern world? Jack shit, thats what, I for one am getting pissed off on them riding on the coat tails of others. You tell me, go on tell me, of just one fucking thing they have ever done to contribute to the betterment of this world, and what fucking right they have to slag off others that have. The Argentines are just a small petty minded people with visions of great granduer, good at talking but fucking useless at producing. Legends in their own minds and fucking useless at anything else.
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@227 reality check,
Jun 09th, 2012 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't honey your words, mate.
Just tell the plonkers straight! :-))))))))))
As it happens, l completely agree with you. ☼
I second the above.
Jun 10th, 2012 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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