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Montevideo, January 26th 2022 - 16:31 UTC
The UK regretted as ‘misfortunate” and “strange” the announced attendance of Argentine president Cristina Fernandez next week to the UN Decolonisation Committee to claim sovereignty over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands. Read full article
Look at this. Not the article that is but the fact that I have the honor of posting the first thread on this article. I must write something witty or intelligent. Here goes.............
I know CFK has made it her cause to bring the dispute to every international forum but to what extent is this policy damaging her reputation? The article quite rightly points out that it is unusual for a head of state to attend. Also what do thinkher reaction will be when Rogers and Summers stand up and have thier say? Will she acknowledge them? Will she intervene and shout from the roof tops that the FI govenment is not recognised or OR look a little embarrassed?
Look at the committee !!! The special rapporteur will be Syrian, the chairman is from Eucudor whose foreign minister came out last week in favor Argentina. And if you look at the members of the committee. I would not be surprised if they give CFK a warm welcome if not rousing support. This is the same UN that
Elected Gadhafi's Libya as head of the UN commission on human rights!in 2003
So let me get this straight, Turkey neck is attending a decolonisation committee to put forward her desire to colonise the Falkland Islands.
Surely she's got the wrong Committee.
Surely she is going there to give plans of how to decolonize Argentina and hand it back to rightful Native American Indians..............................if they can find one, they seem to have 'disappeared”
I think we all know the hypocrisy of the situation, and this is amplified by simply looking at the nationality of the Chairman, Rapporteur, and the heady list of members: Bolivia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Cuba, and of course Argentina's bff Iran.
Typically I do my best to ignore a bunch of screaming imbeciles, this policy extends to this case.
Bolivia, Chile, China, Republic of Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Cuba, Ecuador, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Mali, Nicaragua, Russian Federation, Sierra Leone, Syria, Timor-Leste, Tunisia, and Venezuela. I have removed the names of Commonwealth countries from the list of members of the Special Committee - I am unsure if Sierra Leone is a member of the Commonwealth.
Take a peek at what remains - Ethiopia, Iran, Mali, Syria, Venezuela amongst others - I ask you HOW CAN THIS COMMITTEE BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY?
If Argentina's support relies on these nations then no wonder the UK ignores its determinations. One, of course, hopes that the Commonwealth countries abstain from voting for any resolution concerning the Falklands/Malvinas.
@6 It's not taken seriously by Anglophone countries, and their fledgling states. I cannot really see the UN taking it seriously either, given that it appears to do exactly the opposite of it's remit. Unless Taiwan is going to be added to the list of dependencies to be decolonised by China.
Better just ignore it, and wait for it to go away. In the meantime, Falklands can develop into a nice place, rather than some South American s!hthole.
Discussing the colonisation of the Falklands by the Argentinians is not only morally reprehensible, it's ethically callous. Argentinians cannot even build a nation that anyone wants to even spend any time in.
A quick look at the website of the 'Decolonization Committee' ( http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/specialcommittee.shtml ) shows pictures of apparently happy smiling inhabitants of former colonies voting for self-determination, fair enough. However, I suspect the gang from such bastions of freedom and fair play as Bolivia, Chile, China, Congo, Ivory Coast, Cuba, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Russia, Sierra Leone, Syria, Tunisia and Venezuela will very likely make a special exception in the case of the Falkland Islands. I think we need to question the integrity of this jury. It looks like the sort of dodgy committee that handed the World Cup to Qatar.
The C24 original mandate is to press for small colonialised countries to achieve self-determination. The Falklands have achieved this and thus should be struck from the C24 list. Argentina cannot and should not be a beneficiary to the C24 committee, the C24 has been twisted into a tool for Argentina reversing the very role for which C24 was created.
This seems to be the last role of the dice for CFK but the dice are quite clearly loaded in Argentina's favour with her dubious shower of cohorts holding onto her skirt hem. Iran, Iraq, China, Cuba... etc, all modern examples of self determination, I think not. A disgraceful bunch.
The problem with the Argentine case is that even if their lies were true, it is still bollocks.
Argentina claim that from around 1823-1833 they had a working civilian population of around 150 on the islands, that were forcibly removed by the British.
We all know that this is rubbish, and that the independent Vernet community of around 40, were encouraged to stay and all but four did, and that the Argentine garrison which had been there for 3 months, already murdered their captain in front of his family, were forced to leave.
But ignoring the truth for a second. Does a 10 year inhabitation of land by 150 people give you sovereignty? Does it trump 180 years? if we return the worlds boundaries to 1833, the map would look very different.
So, even if Argentine lies were believed, their case is bollocks. If the actual truth was believed it is double bollocks with a cherry on top!
Self-determination is what the C24 was set up for. Self determination has been achieved. take them off the list.
@10 By simply looking at the Argentine claims on South Georgia, South Shetlands and Antarctic, it becomes clear that they're talking out of their hats. Their claims over all the islands are just utter nonsense based upon lack of historical fact. They typically use geographic proximity as their central pillar of argument, as if this made sense. They even turned up a lot later to the Antarctic race and just started demanding it was theirs, based upon some geographic reasoning again.
What amazes me is that the spanophone countries listen to this bag of nonsense and take it as historical knowledge. I guess it's something to do with cognitive failure through eating sh!t polluted food.
I guess CFK misheard and thought it was called THE Colonization Committee and thought oh goody!.
@12 With Ecuador 'not keen' to decolonise the Galapogas islands, Syria brutalising it's population, Venezeula keen for parts of Guyana, Bolivia desperate for bits of Chile, China wanting parts of India and Argentina ranting on about it's demands for other people's things, then who the hell wouldn't have thought someone had misheard.
I hope Uncle Ban turns up to see the furkshow he's presiding over.
For some reason these countries forget their origins as colonies of Spain and Portugal and act to try to create a 'latino-only' quarter. They forget their forefathers made the Spanish Inquisition (err, i wasn't expecting that) look like Dunster Castle tea room enthusiasts. They're probably not so blind to true history but try and sweep it under the carpet for want of better relations (and the promise of trade and a jolly good knees up) and a pure latin neighbourhood, where all the governments are as bad as each other.
A few years back I remember the populace of Sierra Leonne cheering British troops as they moved in to expel Liberian invaders and other assorted criminal elements from their Country.
Short memories perhaps - like Belize.
Take a peek at what remains - Ethiopia, Iran, Mali, Syria, Venezuela amongst others - I ask you HOW CAN THIS COMMITTEE BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY?
Instead they should believe you flaco??
uk IS FINISHED!
pirate nation that is bankrupt!
WHo cares about uk??
Just comply with the 10 UNGA,25 OAS res...
rogers,will implore NOT TO ADOPT the resolution as drafted
Good the empires are falling down!
Justice is PREVAILING!
Down with the brits PIRATES!
BRAVO ARGENTINA! OLE!
@16 10 UNGA what? Did you read them? Which ones are you referring to?
FYI. UK isn't in the OAS. Just in case you forgot.
@ 1 Sound of hands clapping.........
Not only witty and intelligent but half psychic too :-) I was envisioning exactly the same possibilities with regard to temper-tanties but the looking embarassed bit never crossed my mind.
@3 I think she thinks she has a cunning plan
@ 9 I don't think is going to turn out well for Argentina at all. The C24 will lose all credibilty if they even look like entertaining Argentina's contention of sovereignty.
16. Who is Malvinero1 and what planet is he from? Why does he keep referring us to some unknown idiot (wealthy or not) and an interview made 3 1/2 years ago and where someone called 'Rogers' (who the FXXK is Rogers?) is stating that the UK is finished and bankrupt?
When is this bankruptcy going to take place?
Do either read the news and is this the best 'pea brain' can up with to attack the UK? Where do they find these wankers?
19 Falklands are British (#)
Jun 07th, 2012 - 01:21 pm
They come from among the unemployable in Argentina, they are extremely cheap to hire, I think the going rate is ARG$ 50 per diem plus a chorripan at midday.
CFKC should be worried about leaving the country at the moment. The people are cold and restless.
Wow. How can any of us refute such a well thought out and devestating post? you use your cast iron facts and impeccable moral points with rapier accuracy....and so well written too.
We are not worthy.
I think ARG$50 is way too much if this is his best contribution.
I bet he is sat at home, thinking how smart he is. Checkmate again. Just mention the ghost of Christmas past (bit like KFC) and I'll win hands down.
What is with the repeated AHAH? He seems weird and a bit odd?
23 Falklands are British (#)
Nah he's worth his ARG$50, he's got two of us sidelined off the Falklands subject!!!
The AHAH bit is that he learnt the English spelling of AJA from Honoria and has been showing off ever since.
Argentina is not UN De-Colonization Committee member so if CFK gets air-time there, so should BOTH Falkland Islands and UK. Maybe its because committee chair is Ecuadorian that CFK gets to address the committee? As noted by other commentors here, the membership is likely heavily biased against the interests of both the Falkland Islanders as well as Britain.
Important to note that the committee's agenda (link below) suggests that the 11-15 June meetings are informational, as well as addressing Question of Gibraltar, but that the agenda item specifically about the Falklands is 21 June - 1 meeting, Question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas (Agenda, page 5). What is going to happen on that day? Who will actually be there? What is agenda just for that day?
UN De-col meeting agenda:
UN De-colonization committee members:
CFKC should be worried about leaving the country at the moment. The people are cold and restless.
Much better than in uk!
TO the brits pirates :
In the context of the United Nations decolonization process and following the adoption by the General Assembly of Resolution 2065 (XX) of 16 December 1965 stating that the dispute between the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom over the sovereignty of the Islands must be resolved through negotiations in accordance with the provisions and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations, General Assembly Resolution 1514(XV), and the interests of the inhabitants of the Islands- a bilateral negotiation process was initiated during which several ways of resolving the dispute were discussed, without the parties reaching an agreement.
The existence of a dispute had been clearly recognized by UN General Assembly Resolutions 2065 (XX), 3160 (XXVIII) and 311 49 (XXXI). It had also been recognized by the British Government when it entered into negotiations with Argentina about sovereignty over the Falklands no later than March 1967
There is no doubt, however, that an international tribunal would not confirm the islanders' right to self-determination, if this means that they can decide who has sovereignty. Nonetheless, it is quite clear that international arbitration would have to support the 'interests' of the islanders which means that their British way of life would be safeguarded.
The existence of a dispute, in which Argentina's case was strong and supported by the international community, meant that the maximum objective which Britain could justly pursue would be the return to conditions that allowed a just and proper settlement of the dispute.
Furthermore, in 1884 Argentina offered to take the case to arbitration. Britain refused. This further strengthens the case against a British title by prescription.
Section (6) of UN Resolution 1514 states:
Have you seen what you have started. He seems intent on boring us to death.
I guess The Plastic Bag wants to turn up and make an *rse of herself instead of sending a minion to do it. She had better take a long snorkel a she is going to sink on the world stage.
28 Viscount Falkland
Is this a world stage?.........Does anyone give a damn what the representatives from most of these countries think?
Doubt it. Another storm in a teacup.
26 Malvinero1 (#)
Jun 07th, 2012 - 01:45 pm
So what? All UN Resolutions say exactly the same thing: UK and Argentina to solve the problem peacefully. UKG and FIG don't have a problem, WE HAVE A PROBLEM, we claim the Islands the UKG and the FIG already have the Islands, it is up to us to find a solution, not the UK.
You seem to understand English well enough to insult everything in sight so may I suggest you read the following link. It clearly states that Argentina's claim on the Falklands/Malvinas is made up of fairy stories and outright lies. Enjoy!
So sad that your country walked out on all many negotiations coz you didn't get your own way, so sad that your country's history shows you cannot stick to treaties, so sad that you your country is living in a dream and that come the 14th of June such remonstrations will not avail you (to quote Gandalf). So sad that you will go to your grave with your destiny unfulfilled and your brainwashed like minded bretheren will also turn to dust in the same sad manner... but hey it's not all bad news, it'll be party time for all the little worms and the islanders will carry on being british (by Jove).
So, have ya had enough or do ya want some more?
Stick to what you're good at... football, but with no hand balling.
@27 LOL! Apologies. But seriously, my friends in BsAs say heaters are in short supply and there are posters being circulated complaining about gas being held up at the border. Right or wrong, this should be very worrying for CFKC and her band of followers.
The committee is toothless but FIG have seen it as an opportunity for them to explain their situation; they have every right to do so. CFKC has panicked and wants to run there to perpetuate the Peronists myth. Most unseemly. She should look in her own backyard at the trouble brewing.
It is undoubtedly an error of judgement for The Mad Bitch of Argentina to turn up to what is, after all, a second rate outfit.
No other president or leader bothers to attend. That will put her in a uniquely difficult position when she goes to the G20. Argentina is after all, only there as a representative of a struggling nation to be a sounding board for the wealthy nations not to get too pretentious.
She will confirm, once and for all, what a bunch of no-hopers her government are, AND by implication, the Argentine people who voted her in.
@30 I concur. There is no issue here from the perspectives of the UKG and FIG. Moreover, it is unclear what is the motivational reasoning to enter into any kind of negotiations.
Attending this meeting is yet another in a long line of errors of judgement on behalf of KFC.
@35 I think she may have beem overwhelmed by the thought of an excuse for a shopping trip. All those designer clothes held up in customs an' all.
33.ElaineB You absolutely right. Economic policies in this 'one horse town' are making it really hard for the ordinary people. I feel sorry for your friends and the 46% who voted for the opposition. However, when did Argentina ever have a half decent government? Long before Peron and the 1940s as you imply.
Argentina's diplomacy just makes the country an absolute laughing stock. I cannot see anything else coming other than a continuation in perpetuity. Depressing I know.
I hope you are right that trouble is indeed brewing on the home front. The country needs a really good clear out. Get rid of the corrupt rubbish that has been destroying everything and hopefully, one day, find someone to bring about good, none autocratic governance through proper leadership and the development of the truly democratic institutions that are so lacking here.
This is Resolution 2065 and Argentina in a nutshell:
A: Hi I want something you have
B: OK, let's talk about it
A:*smack* Anyway, as I was saying...
B: You punched me in the face? I'm not talking to you anymore if you're only going to be aggressive
A: But my dad told me to do it, not me, let's talk.
B: Blow me.
26 Malvinero1 (#) ”General Assembly of Resolution 2065 (XX) of 16 December 1965 stating that the dispute between the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom over the sovereignty of the Islands must be resolved through negotiations ”
When is the last time you read your Constitution?? Aren't you aware that the Argentine claim to the Islands is not negotiable as per your constitution. Where have you been locked up?? in the Borda lunatic asylum??
@37 It is true that Juan Peron saw a disparate, chaotic country and the opportunity to use facism to gain power. It worked to control the masses. Sadly, his legacy is that Argentina has never been able to evolve away from his model (slightly changed but still there) and into a modern, developed country.
People tend to accept the status quo - with a little complaining - until they feel real discomfort in some way, be it lack of heating, supplies or the inability to make their money stretch. Then they rise up.
A. Go on, please
A. But Kim Jong-il said that you have too.
A. Hugo Chavez also
A. And Jose Eduardo dos Santos
B. No for God's sake.
A. What about the San Fernando, girls under 12, softball Saturday league committee?
@42: You missed out the Buenos Aires frog knitting circle and the Ivory Coast sand grain counting club...and the Liberal Democrats.
Reuters: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton questioned the MENTAL HEALTH of Argentina's president CFK asking a number of diplomats to investigate WHETHER SHE WAS UNDER MEDICATION, leaked cables showed. The Secretary's cable appeared to have been prompted by diplomatic spats which showed CFK's government to be extremely thin-skinned and intolerant of perceived criticism.
@26 Your comments are irrelevant as the UN resolutions were formulated after the Argentines told lies to them ,ie read the following:
Also the resolutions of the 1960s forbad a military solution. In 1982 Argentina illegally invaded the Falkland Islands, which effectively ended the resolutions.
It appears in your text to deny the Falkland Islanders the right to self-determination. This is against the UN's own charter, but because the Argentines lied about the history to the UN in the early 1960s, what you have put is irrelevant-ie it was concluded on false premises. In anycase as explained in @40, there can be no negotiations as the Argentine position does not allow for them. Ie, you've stuffed yourself.
A. I'm not going to stop.
A. Are you there?
A. Are you there?
A. Talk to me.
A. Talk to me.
A. Please .
41 ElaineB (#)
Jun 07th, 2012 - 03:16 pm
Everyone makes the mistake of assuming that peronism is a political ideology, it's not, it is a framework for populism and demagoguery, a system designed, and very well designed, to take and keep power in a third world country.
Kretina has really f*cked up because she is using the system but seems to think she is part of the first world.
This trip to NY to talk before the C24 is probably going to be her downfall, because she is exposing herself to a very grim defeat, at the hands of Sierra Leone, Chile (remember Evo's demands), and the Falkland Islanders.
It could be that we Argentines will have to thank the Falkland Islanders for pushing Kretina onto the slippery slope to oblivion, I'm ever hopeful.
I've been in this conversation before. The anachronism that is the C24 will deliver the same old message of support of neo-colonisation, justifying the UKG lack of engagement. Then Uncle Ban will make some statement about how people need to be more innovational about colonisation.
Then a few weeks later, no one will have remembered it because the old loon will have got some incompetent-at-arms like killicof to run another company that he'll inevitably ruin.
It's all pre-determined.
What have the C24 actually achieved in the last 20 years ?
@49 In an attempt to sweep the long tail of dependencies under the rug, they've managed to rebrand themselves as the 'UN colonisation committee'.
With regards to decolonising anything.... not one jot.
Now now dont lie. UN Resolution 2065 XX 1965 does not state anywhere that the principle of self determination does not exist. This is the opion of the Malviesta who wrote the intrepretation you have read. please do not present opion as part of the resolution in the way you have. If you dont believe me please feel free to read the resolution online here: http://daccess-dds ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/218/28/IMG/NR021828.pdf?OpenElement
You will notice it only states that there should be talks which are inline with the UK charter and the best intrests of the population i.e. as self determination is enshrined in the UN charter it most defifntly does apply.
Have followed this site for months. Great entertainment and wit. But now I have become confused as we go around and around the same ground. Can anyone help me to understand why the UN dont stop this with a simple confirmation of the right of self determination. It can only be that they do not want to upset South America, but is it a central plank of UN belief or not ?
Do the Falkland Islanders have the right of self determination or not ?
If they do, end of Argentinas whinging. If they dont, end of UN. Are they that insecure that they dare not stand up for their own constitution.
Politics getting in the way.
What do you know in life that is simply a case of black or white?
Ultimatly it does not matter what the UN has to say via resolution published by either the decolonisation commite or general council as they are no legally binding on any party. You can see this yourself if you look at the long lists of comments that member states issue upon signing any of these reolution in which they state exceptions or items they will not be bound by.
The only resolutions which are binding are those issues by the security council so unless there is a secuoty council resolution stating that negocians should take palce then there is no legal obligation to do so and hence the UK is not in violation of any international law.
Hey, Summers and Rogers: support the british falklands strongly, otherwise you will lose your interests and incomes from the fisheries!!! What an idiots are these men. There is no other thing more dangerous than two poor kelpers who became rich from one day to another!, give thanks to Galtieri.
Malvinas are argentine and will be recovered sooner or later!
52 UncleTed (#)
Jun 07th, 2012 - 04:06 pm
I think that what the UN wants is for all the 16 cases of colonization to become independent states, what the UN fails to understand is that the peoples of these cases want to be Overseas Territories. A really good example is Pitcairn Island, with a population of something like 40 people it cannot fend for itself as an independent state therefore its population wish to be a BOT, the same goes for the Falklands, with a population of 3000 and an agressive neighbour of 40000000 they also wish to be a BOT.
It seems logical to me, but apparently not to the UN.
@52 The UN is fundamentally a bit like the OAS, it's full of a few good countries and a lot of shady corrupt backwards countries. The good countries don't typically attend things like the C24, and the countries that do, you have to ask yourself why the hell are they there. [Bolivia's interest in decolonisation is what exactly???'
It's worth remembering that at last years C24 meeting the Côte d’Ivoire rep said that self-determination was a precondition for the enjoyment of peoples’ fundamental rights, and therefore, any solution must allow for the exercise of that right in the Falkland Islands (Malvinas).
The Sierra Leone rep then said the principle of self-determination was a prime factor in any consideration of the question of the Falkland Islands (Malvinas). The basic principles outlined in resolution 1514 (XV) (1960) formed the basis of the Special Committee’s work. Citing General Assembly resolution 637 (VII), she said the Special Committee was obliged, not only to uphold the principle of self-determination, but to recognize it as a prerequisite for realising fundamental human rights. Any attempt to resolve the issue without taking into full account the wishes of the islanders would be inconsistent with the United Nations Charter and relevant Assembly resolutions.
I hope the President and her team get to hear these positions from within the Anglo and the Francosheres restated again later this month.
Thanks guys, interesting. So all these committees are a complete waste of time, self perpetuating clubs of members who have nothing to do with, or particular interest in the issues at hand, and by the look of these particular members not a hope of ever resolving anything. As much use as me talking to my neighbour about whether China should become a monarchy. One other thing, why is almost every country on the decolonising list either UK or USA and most as far as I am aware happy with their lot. What is the point of the C24. Ah I see, there is no point, which is the point. All very worrying and certainly doing the UN no credit. They cant take any more countries off the list or they would have to stop meeting. Cant have that.
59 UncleTed (#)
Jun 07th, 2012 - 04:28 pm
Correct. There are no cases that should be on the list, but as you say no list no Committee, so it goes on forever.
@58 I think that telling her some home truths would be a good start.
My real issue is that in dealing with the long tail, they've tried to make every case before the C24 'special' and in doing so removed any objective criteria for what decolonisation means. With no criteria for who is decolonised they're just going to be repeating this nonsense ad nauseum when territories like the Falklands are basically completely self-sufficient, self-determined and self-governing. Year upon year these territories will be dragged up in front of the committee for useless chat, without any chance of becoming a member of the UN even if they did declare independence. This is with Pitcairn not really knowing what the hell it's supposed to do if it became a nation state of 40 folks and Taiwan sat there like the elephant in the room.
Uncle Ban should get his house in order, methinks.
The UN should do its job and actualy force countries to follow international law and use the secuorty council where needed to ensure this ahppends not becomea bunch of gravel train riding hypocrits engaging to corrupt back scratching. I wonder what would happen to the UN if the largest contributers (also the most critised countries and Security council members) pulled their support and funding from the UN.
@62 The League of Nations was powerless at stopping the expansionist policies of Nazi-Germany and the UN is powerless at stopping the expansionist policies of Peronist-Argentina.
It's just history repeating itself. It's just history repeating itself.
In the context of the United Nations decolonization process and following the adoption by the General Assembly of Resolution 2065 (XX) of 16 December 1965 stating that the dispute between the Argentine Republic and the United Kingdom over the sovereignty of the Islands must be resolved through negotiations in accordance with the provisions and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations, General Assembly Resolution 1514(XV), and the interests of the inhabitants of the Islands-
The so often abused and misquoted propaganda of the incompetent and stupid like @26. He cannot read that this resolution says THE OPPOSITE of what he says it does.
1) recognises sovereignty dispute (everyone does)
2) recommends negotiations (UK has tried twice, first time Argentina invaded when they didn't get their way, second time Argentina stormed out)
3) recommends that the islanders interests are considered (UK always does, Argentina NEVER do)
4) suggests any solution should respect resolution 1514. Which guess what.....says that all people have the RIGHT to SELF DETERMINATION,
So on all four counts the UK have met the requirements of 2065, and in three of the four counts Argentina have directly and deliberately ignored them.
There will be no further negotiations as unless Argentina get entirely their own way, in direct of front to 2065 and 1514, they will continue the same rhetorical shitte for years to come.
The only reason the C24 exists is that it is a club with no real objective other than an expense paid for jolly for its members every year.
There are no longer any colonies desperately seeking to be decolonized, unfortunately Argentina are looking to colonize the Falkland Islands.
@63 that is true but I think Argentina will have problems putting those policies into action (not that they plan to as they would get thir arses kicked and lose the Falklands as a political tool).
I still don't understand why CFK is speaking (apart to cause trouble), any decolonisation matters would be handled between FI and the UK. Argentina has nothing to do with it.
The only thing CFK wants is for the Falklands to be forced into independence and the British army to leave. Then she can visit the Falklands to congratulate them (naturally she'll be escorted by those war veterans who would have invited a good number of their younger actively serving army friends). After that, the army might like it so much they stay, it doesn't matter what the Islanders will think as CFK has already proved they are not human and have no rights.
Only problem with that is the Islanders want to remain British and even if they go for independence they can ask for the British army to stay (which I'm sure they would).
CFK should just stay home and spend the money for the trip on helping the poor mis-informed people who made the mistake of voting her and her cronies back into office.
@16 DEATH TO EVERY STINKING ARGIE!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
See? It's much shorter! And reasonable. And justified!
@26 To the argie prick. All UNGA resolutions are NON-BINDING. That means that no-one has to pay any attention to them. They are like advice to a deaf man. Can you understand that or do you need a hole drilled between your ears? What a shame you spent so much time typing that drivel!
@55 Look up! Look up! Can you see that pig flying over your hovel? I see that you use the name deutscher. Does that mean you are an old german nazi murderer and war criminal? Or just an argie descendant with the same beliefs?
We tried to get rid of the falkland islanders in the 1970s .
Unfortunatly the islanders were white.
Argentina was a facist junta busy killing its own and even the foreign Office couldnt get away with handing white people over to a regime like that.
After 1982 all bets were off permantly unless the islanders change their mind argentina is never getting the islands..
20 Simon68, Didn't you learn yet how to spell choripan...?
Prime Minister Wellington, UK., the British general who defeated Napoleon and was twice British prime minister
” It is not clear to me that we have ever possessed the sovereignty of all these islands. The convention certainly goes no farther than to restore to us Port [Egmont], which we abandoned nearly sixty years ago. If our right to the Falkland Islands had been undisputed at that time and indisputable, I confess that I should doubt the expediency of now taking possession of them. We have possession of nearly every valuable post and colony in the world and I confess that I am anxious to avoid to excite the attention and jealousy of other powers by extending our possessions and setting the example of the gratification of a desire to seize upon new territories”
@47 I completely agree with you.
What is extraordinary is that so many Argentine people are happy to be manipulated in this way. I assume is is generations of brainwashing. population poor.
Former Argentine deputy
‘It seems crazy to me to try to think that Argentina will be stronger by imposing citizenship on a people who don’t want it. I can’t see how a country can impose on 3,000 people, whose ancestors have been there for 180 years, a sovereign government, a citizenship, that they don’t want. That is absurd.’
'That to me is truly absurd.'
Respected Argentine writer
‘Argentinians would be hypocrites if they denied Falklanders the right to self-determination. Argentina wouldn’t exist if not for self-determination, and this can’t be valid for some but not for others.
'Why would we start demanding negotiations over sovereignty of the Falklands right now 30 years since the war, and not 31 years or any other date?
'It seems that Argentina is incapable of looking critically at its tragic military adventure in the Falklands. It is now committing the same folly by thinking that the Falklands questions can somehow be magically resolved.'
@70 I'd put it down to a lack of basic education, both family and schooled.
71 Steve-32-uk ”imposing citizenship on a people who don’t want it'
Steve, If you know of any foreigner in Argentina, including tens of thousands of British, forced to do that please let me know, I had never heard such a thing.
69 Marcos Alejandro
Have you not posted this before (somewhat repeatedly)?
Wellington whilst a great British hero he was a soldier and Duke in the main. Also liked to wear wellies. So what of his views (said in what context and what was in his mind), Is this the definitive answer then? Something said a few lifetimes ago albeit by someone important? I don't think so.
Big deal. Forget it. It is not worthy of you continuing to repeat yourself.
@73 That's fallacious logic. You're suggesting that Anglo-Argentines have the same opinions as Falkland Islanders, and then extrapolating. That's like me saying, Argentina wants to be colonised by the UK because I don't know of any unhappy Argentine-British people.
Additionally, posting opinions of the long dead serves little purpose.
Your education lets you down. Sorry about that.
Do you have any heebie jeebies ?
Eating overabundant Youghurt makes intestinal gas. !
@76 It's not my fault that Argentinian family education is pyss-poor. However, it's only a matter of time before the children in that country are asked to 'dob in' their parents if they say anything anti-KFC or anti-Maximo. You'll have kids sending their parents to the police for having dollars under the bed.
It's going to be a mess.
US statement at OAS GA probably did reflect their not being entirely convinced about the resolution drafting but Canadian statement did not equivocate about their rejection of the resolution (in part because ...only Falkland Islanders can determine their own future...), but also that such a resolution should not come to the OAS GA at all.
This is interesting, because Obama and Harper (Canadian PM) at recent OAS heads meeting in Cartagena decided not to support similar resolution apparently at least in part because it hadn't been vetted beforehand at a meeting such as the OAS GA meeting.
69 Marcos Alejandro
Oh, you Malvanistas like to spin things, don't you.
I have seen this crap from you before: yes, he was Prime Minister twice, once for 30 months and the next time for 30 DAYS!
He was deeply unpopular with the masses both times, and was near assination when his house in London was attacked by the public for a stupid thing he did in the House.
He was a very brusk Army Commander with no thought for his men at all. But being born in Dublin probably didn't help matters.
I am sure none of what Wellington had to say or not say in the matter of the Falklands (there STILL are no Malvinas) matters not one iota.
79: you have to understand that gossip and heresay means a lot to Malvinistas, God forbid they ever use any actual concrete evidence or first-hand research to support their spurious claims. I look forward to the day when one of their kind here posts a link to an actual signed government level document or can state a date, with proof, of any of their bedtime stories they peddle to us repeatedly on this forum, but they don't and can't. It could be due to laziness or it could be down to a lack of proof for their claims, either way I care as much as a mosquito can fart in a minute.
After the defeat of Napoleon he could have been whatever he wanted. Likewise with Nelson if he had survived Trafalgar. National Hero. This is how it was in them days. ChrisR questions was he the right man to be PM whilst clearly he was when it came to taking on Napoleon.
@79,80 These Malvinistas do seem to focus awfully on subjective 'beliefs' rather than objective facts, which probably explains why they avoid any kind of legal assessment like the plague. They're typically quoting 'opinions' from the guardian, long-dead people, journalists, et al, but none of these things are 'facts'. The facts are often refuted through the knowledge of history, especially around the antics of 1833.
It's quite ridiculous.
@81 From what I've read, Wellington was a first rate General but a poor Prime Minister. Chris R is spot on.
You talk vainly..........
Thats just media shows brings nothing...........
The resolution platforms are neither OAS ..nor UN....nor else.....
UN can do nothing becouse there have been many,many controversial/contradictory( !!!) self determination events and grabbed places problems which haven't been solved yet. !
I have never seen one of them answer a direct specific question with an answer that is relevant to the question.
@82 But when you do debate with them, face to face, and prove to them the reality, their faces take on the pitiful quality of a child who has just realised there in no Santa Claus.
If someone chooses to emigrate to another country, they have effectively agreed to live under that countries rules and laws.
The Falkland Islanders have not chosen to live in Argentina and have no wish to do so.
What no Santa Claus. Please how could you say such a thing. Won't sleep tonight.
You have many friends from Argentina/Chile but not from these frigid islands.!...interesting !
Another odd statement
not odd !
We have been waiting her to tell friend stories from these frigid islands.
I gather it is frigid in Buenos Aires at the moment !
@69 Didn't you post that before, dripstick? Repeating yourself is a sign of a psychotic. For instance, if you think you see sentences repeated, you ARE delusional. For instance, if you think you see sentences repeated, you ARE delusional. Are YOU seeing sentences twice? Are YOU seeing sentences twice? One after the other? One after the other? You NEED a psychatrist. You NEED a psychatrist. YOUR brain is going nuts. YOUR brain is going nuts.
In the great scheme of things, Max is an aberrant moron trying to achieve the status of idiot. And failing. Malviner01 is an idiot attempting to achieve the status of moron. And succeeding. Where is Malviner02? And Marcos Alejandro? Does this translate as Mark Antony? A prat if ever there was one. But Marcos Alejandro. Does one spell prat with one t or (pratt) with two ts.
I have in mind a competition. If you can find an intelligent, reasoned, useful comment from any of these pill**** in the last year, you can add a * to your username. But if you find two idiotic, fatuous, useless comments from any one of them in the same article, you can add ! to your username. What about it?
Not far short of 60 million people live in Argentina / Chile and a few live over here. I have friends in Salta (this is a fact). The chances of knowing anyone in a population of just 3,000 is remote in the extreme. So the comment is strange in the extreme. Weird even.
mavinero/Marcos - same old stale drivel - it would be good if you could come up with some new angles for once!
There have been NO binding resolutions from the Un or C24 that the UK and FI have ignored, nor any International ones.
BUT- the Argentine case is a wee bit different is it not? Who ignored 2 Int binding resolutions from the UN security Council in 1982?
Who signed an international Agreement with UK and the FI(also signatories) in 1999 - this document was duly filed at the UN - and has since then walked out of and effectively torn it all up bar one bit - the Lan flight- and that remains only because Chile told CFK they were not going to stop so it would be down to her to do it by refusing airspace - which she is now scared to do as her own Veterans Ass have told her the reality!
Can I remind you of the old english saying about people living in glass houses and throwing stones?
Still waiting for evidence from malvi that UK is finished and bankrupt- funny as they may well be forking out up to £5billion to help Greece and the Euro soon! This is on top of the load to ireland etc etc.
All we can do, is wait until after the Falklands give its speech, at this meeting, and see what the response is, and see if they vote, to do anything,
Apart from that, what can one do,
Bring up the dead past, [as losers always do]
Or sit and have a nice cuppa, and watch the children play,
Argentine president attendance at C24 to discuss Falklands’ case
She is attending a meeting at the C24 that will have absolute no bearing on the outcome of the Falkland Island situation. The C24 have achieved nothing in the last 20 years, they are waste of time and money!
Don' t say me ..say to Londoners..
London's social cleansing have fixed on the changes to the law regarding housing benefits and the Olympics, [London Programme 2003 ]but failed notice that the working class Londoners' have been being forced out of the nation' s capital for sometime now...also thanks to the rising prices of houses.,where pricing ordinary Londoners out of capital city...
The Labour Part already turned its back on the working classes a long time ago................
She and friends will be a laugh though (I think we should set up a Titman fan club - he is so funny). Don't we all keep in touch with it for that reason?
We all know, even the deluded lot, that nothing is going to change. So lets enjoy it, as it is much better than anything on the telly.
The Diamond Jubilee river pageant was great though (if you ignored the BBC coverage).
The best was at the end with Symphony College of Music Chamber Choir, the singers got drenched by rain as they performed Land Of Hope and Glory, Rule Britannia, and the national anthem, but their Stoicism was GB at its best.
It was good. We should make some on this site watch it on a daily basis (probably do but are quiet about it). Make them learn the words and then they might mind their place.
Another odd comment from 98 Max. He has read a one paragraph article about aspects of life in London and he thinks he is a social expert on life in 'THE GREAT CITY'. He seems to think that the millions who live in London are all toffs.
I have absolutely no idea what Max is raving about.
please send there millions my way,
i must have been dreaming all these years living there .
I am of the opinion all reflections more the anxieties of our times and that even had Diocletian(socialist interlude ) been replaced by Empress Margareth Thatcher ,who in turn appointed Imperator Maximus as her co-emperor ,the trajectory of the Roman Empire would not have been much different.
Stop holding back. Where is the dosh. You must be loaded because we are told. Living in London and all of that and buying up all of those council houses. I hope your money is not under the mattress and in dollars, the US type, because Boris has now trained dogs to smell them out and we will find it.
Argentina must realise,that their only chance is to encourage trade,charter flights, tourism,fishing and hydrocarbons.Unfortunately they have torn up every agreement ,which to the observer would appear to be an own goal.
It is very undignified for a President, to attend a very minor U.N. meeting-it smacks of desperation.
Maybe in 10 years time ,with a new government Argentina
Chile,Uruguay and Brazil may benefit from the international oil industry, but as things stand ,the oil will be transported directly to Europe and USA.due to Argentine belligerence.
Isn't everything they do 'smacking' of desperation? Their actions only increase the UK's belligerence never mind anyone else and to the point of no return. It is goodnight Josephine. The end. You have done everyone a favour tearing up any agreements between us. Keep it up.
The Falklanders are sat pretty and so is the UK. Oil revenues will come to both parties. The Falkland Islands will be defended and the cost met. Britain will have access to a good strategic piece of real estate and a important training ground for her forces.
Within 5 years, boy scouts and girl guides from the UK will be earning badges, on having a good time and outward bound activities.
Also with this improved outlook, the country will be overrun with baby 'bennies' and a following population boom.
@69 Wellington frequently got mixed up about things in his old age. He was also very unpopular as PM because he made poor choices.
He may have been a good general, but he was a mediocre politician. Your quote proves it.
I believe max uses google translate, this is why all his posts come out as goobldygook!
They just dont understand the British & Falklands mentality,no sabre -rattling but a quiet ,steely, 'no surrender ' determination.As Corporal Jones says They dont like it up them,the cold steel.
Actions speak louder than words.
@102 & 109 Especially the Labour Part - is that some sort of gynaecological term?
The Malbec must be particularly strong tonight. Remember to have something to eat first, next time Max.
che, Conqueror, que pelotudo que sos.-
Why you can not give your opinion about what I said in my post. Summers' dinasty is quite similar to CFK's. He has been assembler since 13 years?!?!
Pirates: How can you ignore the history about the Malvinas before you invaded them? There were many years of spanish and argentinian administration. You always speak as if it would never existed.
You are rich now thanks to Galtieri, or I would say thanks to Argentina. That is in fact what you are really defending, the money, not UK or this ridiculus feeling to belong to UK.
Nobody in Britain knows where are you and where are the islands.
Where is Galtieri´s memorial in Stanley?
You still haven't answered the very simple question I asked in another thread:
Did Antonio Rivero and his 8 murderous colleagues and his victims all return clandestinely after being expelled with the civillian population of the Falklands in January 1833 to be captured in January 1834 after murdering their victims?
Simople answer, YES or NO.
keh keh ??
Is it time for the trolls to spout on about the Chagos Islanders yet - haven't heard it tonight so far - must be coming soon ;-)
Why are you asking me? Aren't you capable to do your own research?
By the way, I never met a real Argentinean who doesn't know how to spell choripan
@116 How's your lack-of-objective-fact pushing going Marcos? still presenting opinion columns from the Grauniad as truth? Still failing to stick to the topic and living in the past? Your problem is that your with your lack of basic education you cannot even see that your own strategy fails every time.
@all So did we come to a concensus about how stupid KFC is going to look when she goes before the UN demanding to colonise people?
@112 How many of these so-called Administrators actually lived in the islands and how many were actually Argentine? By that I mean with at least, say, 3 generations born in Argentina?
Correction - Belize supports Falkland Islanders rights alongside Canada and Panama. Together with the disgracefully neutral USA that's about half the American land mass that don't support Argentina.
But children quickly get over finding out the Santa Claus doesn't exist.
At least mine did.
But these malvinistas don't seem ever to get over the fact that the Falklands are not theirs.
e.g.- look at that silly Malvinero1 rabbiting on about UNGA 2065.
lts null & void because of their invasion.
And what about resolution 502. He completely ignores that one!
Then the best that Marcos can do is to continually post ramblings of the Duke of Wellington whose been dead for about 160 years!
They are clutching at straws alright,the whole shower of the imbeciles.
Surely the headline should read:
Argentine president attendance at C24 to discuss Falklands' case, pathetic and desperate
I still maintain that CFK will use this visit to leg it from Argentina, one step ahead of the angry mob, out for her head.
A Head of State addressing this minor and inconsequential committee shows the world just how desperate your president is to divert the attention of the argentine people from the unfortunate state of the economy.
Quite frankly it's embarrassing. No senior government official, let alone a Head of State, would be caught dead at this committee (that's what junior officials are for). So CFK is going to embarrass Argentina further before the worlds eyes, in order to stave off the inevitable backlash from the people when they realise the country is fecked, and people wonder why Argentina is considered an international joke!
Thousands of Argentinians demonstrated outside of the Presidentila palace in BA last night protesting against corruption, double-digit inflation and the ban on purchasing foreign currency. Is this the beginning of the end for CFK and Co?
@122 I hope so.
@120 You never stop ignoring History. You say, falklands are not theirs. Why do you say that. You speak as if the spanish and arg. administration would have never existed. You are like muslim extremists. You feel more british that the ones who live in London. I want you to remember that you live in a territory usurped by pirates.-
4 BLACK CAT. The Plastic Queen will do as you say the same day that The British Queen decides to give England back to the Picts!
123 deutscher: V.D. & shöne Grüße!
Ich werde übertrumpfen die V.D. und heben Sie es auf H.I.V. Einen schönen Tag noch.
I think you deserve this special treatment. I suspect you will appreciate the Nazi sentiments.
@123 - deutscher.
The British don't ignore history. Argentina ignores history, or alters it to suit their purposes.
The Falkland Islanders have lived continuously on the Islands for more than 180 years, to a time before the country Argentina existed or was even recognised by the 'motherland' Spain.
The British claim on the Islands goes back many years before the United Provinces declared independence. When the UP set up an illegal penal colony, the British immediately protested to the UP government in BA. This government choose to ignore that protest, so the British sent a ship to remove them. That penal colony had only been in existence for 3 months before the men mutinied and murdered their own commander.
The British captured the mutineers and expelled the illegal penal colony, and returned them to the UP, where 4 of the mutineers were executed by UP authorities.
The actual colonists, who'd been on the islands for years choose to stay, with the exception of 4 families, 2 were Brazilian, 2 Uruguayan.
So as you can see, Argentina has no historic claim. It also has no legal claim in law back in the 19 century as the treaty of 1850 shows that Argentina accepted British Soveignty over the islands, and maps produced for Argentine embassies and consulates of that time period shows that the Falklands are British territory.
Everything was quiet until the 1940's when Peron decided to chance his luck, believing that the British would lose WW2, by trying to grab more territory. However, in 20th and 21st century law, the right for the Falklanders to choose their own allegiance is enshrined in the UN charter - the right to self-determination. So Argentina has no legal basis under current international law.
@124 - Argie.
It was the Scottish King that gained the English throne, thus uniting the Kingdoms, not the other way around. The 'Picts' were overthrown by the Scotti - an Irish tribe, not English, so your grasp on history seems tenuous at best.
Nice to see China on the C24, perhaps their occupation of Tibet can be a
--Deutscher -- is not a German word maybe Norwegian !
@128 - MistyThink.
Strange, I thought it was German. Deutscher meaning a German man.
However, back to the news article. Why does your president insist on embarrassing your country like this?
At this rate Argentina won't be able to show its face on the international stage for decades. Even the poorest African country's Presidents wouldn't lower themselves to attend non-entity meeting.
Stop British taxpayers’ money supporting World Bank loans to Argentina (outstanding 16.2 BILLION). The United States has already indicated that they will veto any new handouts to Argentina.
A goverment e-petion has been setup at www.StopFundingArgentina.org
Would recommend everyone to sign it.
It was the Scottish King that gained the English throne
james the 1st of england,
and he was james Vl of scotland,
after the demise of Elizabeth lst,
is this ok. history,
--Deutsche-- not -- deutscher -- !
You can see so many websites-- blogs in internet have misinformations..deinformations..dont believe them
Argentina has some ~ 5 billions us$ equivalent of from
IBRD loans( International Bank of Restruction and Development)
IDA loans ( International Development Association)
under the World Bank guaranteed.
keep away from gullible, biased, greenhorn,juggins,gudgeon ..writings.
Stop all funding to this corrupt country called Argentina bring down this corrupt country and all who govern Argentina.
Anyone reading this outside of Argentina sign THE FORM NOW.
What a fortuity...
Our comment timings ( 132 -- 133) are same .........
@132 - MistyThink.
Try this website, it disagrees with you.
Regarding Argentina's debts, they are numerous, and just because Argentina has defaulted on its debts in the past doesn't mean that it should in the future.
Just how will the Argentine government pay it's debts? Borrow money? From whom? The IMF and the WTO believe Argentina is a bad risk, throwing good money after bad, and if they want to borrow in future they maybe subject to some of the same restrictions that Greece is currently undergoing, because it is impossible to 'borrow' yourself out of debt, and no one will risk Argentina defaulting again.
It doesn't look good for the Argentine economy. If your government knuckled down and started putting in place proper measures, curbing public spending etc.., the economy might just be salvageable. However, they won't so your economy, and your people are fecked.
Serious times and problems require serious grown up people. Unfortunately for Argentina your government in neither serious or grown up.
Argentina has some foreign debts ...38 % GDP (2011) .........................while was ..151 %GDP in 2002.
The Falklands are ours, NOT yours.
We do not care about your hurt feelings.
Get over it.
get over it
UK has : 80 % gdp External Debts
Spain has : 68 % gdp External Debts
Portugal has : 72 % gdp External Debts
@136 - MistyThink
I think you'll find that Argentina owes an awful lot more than that. Just because you defaulted on past debts doesn't make them go away. In fact, future generations in Argentina will be left with the debts of your governments incompetent managing of your economy and natural resources.
It's a shame, because of your natural resources, Argentina should be one of the richest countries in the world, with a AAA rating, easily able to pay any debts on time.
Indeed, Argentina could've become a shining beacon to the rest of South America on how the future could be.
But instead, persistant corrupt governments and institutions rife with corruption, mean that Argentina is fast becoming a third world crap hole, unable to exploit its own natural resources, borrowing money on an unprecedented scale, and throwing good money after bad, while at the same time the corruption undermines Argentina's position in South America and on the world stage.
And most of the problems are the fact that Argentina refuses to accept any responsibility for the mistakes it has made, either domestically or internationally. It's always someone else's fault.
The Falklands for instance. In 1982 Argentina illegally invaded the islands, and basically turned the islanders against Argentina forever, by your treatment of them. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of ordinary Argentines celebrated this illegal act of violence, showing their support for this action.
However, when things didn't go Argentina's way, suddenly it's not the fault of Argentina, it was the Junta - honest!
But, would the Junta if invaded the Falklands if they didn't believe that it was the one thing that would unite the ordinary Argentine in the street? Yet even today, Argentina refuses to apologise for this illegal act, and the terrible acts of violence directed towards the islanders. You refuse to accept responsibility for anything, and that is why your governments and therefore country constantly fails.
Honestly,i must say that if the Argentina once, established and settled mostly from British or German originated people ,It could has become more serious,developed,reputable country.
@140 If I recall it from recent threads it owes approximately £160 Billion.
@139 You're not including the debt profile, and interest on those debts as an indicator of repayment ability. Just putting up percentages of debt doesn't really say anything.
@141 you forget that Argentina received a lot of German SS following the war which Peron's best friend Hitler lost. Those people inevitably ended up supporting Peron's fourth reich, which retains power today. So, you should probably rethink what you said about Germans.
We regreat the british illegal aliens in Islas Malvinas Argentina not getting self determination from UK or even rights to return. If the british didn't give them rights in UK why should Argentina?? In any case they are britsnot Argentine's no matter how much land or resources they theft. Britards go home.
@ 143 - Pirat-hunter.
The people of the Falklands already have the right to determine their own future.
That's what appears to be upsetting people like your imperial mistress and yourself. She can't get her corrupt grubby thieving hands on the islands, so she can rob them blind, as she has robbed Argentina blind.
Tell me Pirat-hunter, when CFK has legged it from Argentina with her bags bursting at the seems with greenbacks, who will you blame?
143 Pirat-Hunter (#)
Jun 09th, 2012 - 01:02 pm
I've asked you on another thread but will repeat my question here:
Do you hoestly believe that Kretina's economic policy is GOOD?
If you do you are in a very sorry state!!!!
Tell me Pirat-hunter, when CFK has legged it from Argentina with her bags bursting at the seems with greenbacks, who will you blame?
The Britsssshhhhh!!!!! :o)
The Falklands are ours, NOT yours.
We do not care about your “hurt” feelings.
Get over it
NOt for long....
Do you hoestly believe that Kretina's economic policy is GOOD?
Much better than the corrupt conservatives politicians,that you have in uk....
3 million unemployed,industry gone,1 trillion public debt,9 trillion foreign debt (3rd largest debtor on earth),sold london to the arabs,running out of petroleum.....
The prospect are HORRIBLE!
@143 Take careful note,The Falkland Islanders have got self-determination.
They are not illegal aliens, as the islands are not and never have been Argentinian
They have got rights to live in the UK but as the Falkland Islands are their home they live in the Islands where most of the population was born and many descended from 9 generations, longer than Argentina has been a state.
It is not up to Argentina to give the Falkland Islanders rights in the UK???????
The Falkland Islanders haven't stole from any one-their government is not corrupt like that of Argentina.
You say they are not Argentinian-you are correct there, they are Falkland Islanders, and they are glad to be British to stop pirates like you invading them.
Take all the above in, sr Pirat-Hunter.
For it is the truth & you are a moron.
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I think she wants to go shopping on 5th Ave.... with all that money she and her cronies pocketed from the people.....
The appearance of Cristina the Great to make her case in person is indeed misfortunate....for her opponents =)
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