MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina’s next actions may impact fisheries beyond Falklands
It is clear and nobody doubts that Argentina has taken a more robust and active attitude with respect to its sovereignty claims over the Falkland Islands and the adjacent South Atlantic zone, comprising Georgia and the Sandwich Islands, which continue under the FIFD's (Falkland Islands Fisheries Department) exclusive management. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesFish & Information Services Thailand ??
Jun 26th, 2012 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he's whistling in the wind !
Loubet-Jamber's choice of words like “interesting” belies the critical nature of fisheries to the well-being of the Falklands' economy. However, it is not at all clear that countries supporting the Argentine position in the UN would actually support Argentina in the real world of licencing fishing.
Jun 26th, 2012 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading other FIS news about the management crises of Argentine fisheries bodies - in some cases of actual violence - one hopes that Falkland Islands fisheries will be maintained in a cooperative, sustainable way at some distance (geographically and politically) from Argentina.
References:
FIG Fisheries Department: http://www.fis.com/falklandfish/html/management.html
‘There is no security,’ fishing chambers warn:
http://www.fis.com/falklandfish/html/management.html
He is indeed out of touch with reality- the Spanish and other Int Companies operating here have long ago seperated themselves from their associate companies that operate in Arg waters!
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Would love the see the Arg argument as to why they can claim Sov over SG and South Sandwich Islands!
With Argentina nothing is impossible...so they are capables of selling what they haven´t right to do....They aren´t satisfied with the depredation over their own waters so now they are looking to the neighbors property to do the massacre.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0But hte Intl. fishing companies look for reliability in the long term so they know that with Argentina never they can be safe because Argentine Gvts. are too volatile like a bipolar clown....
The RN must keep its waters free of Argentina licensed fishery boats....like Argentina did with those FIlicensed ships sailing to S A ports....
3 Islander1 (#)
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0You've seen the argument they have for claiming the Falklands, do you call it serious or laughable? Clearly they also have no argument for claiming South Georgia or the South Atlantic Islands. Argentina is a Micky Mouse country led by a widowed housewife whose face is falling off, who appeals to national socialism. It couldn't get much worse!
I shouldn't worry about the Fishing licences. Environmental Rights organisations, the EU and the UN would be up in arms if Argentina escalated matters further.
If things got out of hand NATO would get involved. That is what NATO is for, it would be a gross violation of British sovereignty and NATO is no longer solely responsible for continental Europe. They have regular NATO exercises based on the South Atlantic, like the one they had this Spring.
The Malvinas are Argentina, Argentine territory extends 4,000 miles from Buenos Aires, to South Georgia, South Atlantic Islands and Antarctica to South pole. Most of the South Atlantic belongs to Argentina. We are going to replace Brazil as the main power in Latin America as soon as your English asses are removed from our islands which they is plantated on!
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Population of Malvinas is plantated not indigenous to Malvinas like our population is indigenous to Argentina. I am myself second generation Argentine, my family came to Argentina from another Latin country Italy to fee from post war allied persecution of war criminals. British and American do not fight fair they label the looser in war as criminals because they are cowards!
I could not be more angry about Anglosphere and all the crimes you have done in the world, like Korean War! Or your invasion of Iraq in 1991! Unprovoked aggression!
Malvinas population is not indignious to Malvinas! Everything our president says is based on Papal Bull 1496 ! It is in black an white and can not be disputed!
Does the name Luis Vernet ring any bells? Somethings never change.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0England lost Malvinas war! We felt pitty for them and let them live in peace for 30 years but now we are coming over our islands. I dream about day I will live confiscated Malvinas sheep estancia! The farms will be confiscated and given to war vets and given to the activists on www! I will sit in the sun on my porch and think colonial pirates cleaned from our islands!
Jun 27th, 2012 - 02:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ Filippo
Jun 27th, 2012 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 01991 invasion of Iraq? Now correct me if I'm wrong it was Iraq that invaded Kuwait, so making Iraq the aggressor. So when a multinational force moved to liberate Kuwait and stopped once Kuwait was freed from an unprovoked act of aggression this makes the said liberators the bad guys in this situation?
Well with that logic you probably think the Nazi's and Italian Facists were actually well rounded nice guys who wouldn't hurt a fly, oh wait “I am myself second generation Argentine, my family came to Argentina from another Latin country Italy to fee from post war allied persecution of war criminals”.
Your not doing much for the Argentinian sterotype of denying all wrong doings.
Filippo:
Jun 27th, 2012 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your clear position that no doubt expresses your heartfelt hatred for the Falkland Islands' community.
It quite probably also reflects the opinion of CFK, her government, and a large proportion of Argentina, and clearly opposes the empty promises of friendship and consideration towards Falkland Islanders as purported by Argentine Ambassador to UK Alicia Castro (14 June The Independent - below) .
There should be no doubt left now in anybody's mind that with such effusive feelings of hatred, disgust and rejection towards the Falkland Islanders, there can be absolutely NO reconciliation, negotiation, or discussion between Falkland Islands, Britain and Argentina.
Castro:
“We are committed to respecting the islanders' interests and way of life. They are British and proud to be so; we respect their Britishness and identity. We are willing to offer safeguards to preserve their way of life.”
www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/alicia-castro-for-peace-and-reconciliation-we-need-talks-on-las-malvinas-7848760.html
TWIMC
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jupppp..............
That seems to be the plan..............
(10) JohnN
Don't be such a Canadian Turnip.................
Everybody in MercoPress knows that Mr. Filippo is a British Troll........
@6 Fillipo
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is a joke, right?
I preferred your “David Cameron” posts - they nearly had me fooled.
You know you have a corrupt government when Russia and China are the main powers supporting you. Jump in with the other moral guys like iran, syria, venezuela...
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fillipo sarcasm fail drop 50m :)
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cant see anyone buying a licence for the falklands from arg
Fig can and do enforce there licences
@6 - Flipper
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0'The Malvinas are Argentina, Argentine territory extends 4,000 miles from Buenos Aires, to South Georgia, South Atlantic Islands and Antarctica to South pole. Most of the South Atlantic belongs to Argentina. We are going to replace Brazil as the main power in Latin America as soon as your English asses are removed from our islands which they is plantated on! '
LOL!! Can I get some of those drugs you are on? They must be strong!
Meanwhile back on planet earth, nothing will come of this, neither Russia nor China is going to risk conflict with the UK over a small fisheries area and a bunch of licenses they will pay the corrupt Argentine government for that are worthless.
Both Russia and China are only in business for themselves and have zero interest in getting involved in other countries conflicts unless there is a large profit to be had and clearly there isn't, there's just a conflict with an important trading partner (UK) they don't want to get involved in.
If neither is willing to invest in YPF they why the hell would they get involved in something that will cause them financial losses and conflict for almost zero returns?
The laws on fisheries are not applicable here for Argentina: the tactics are for any means- trying by use of legalese and argument through semantics - by which encroachment on the self-determination rights of the Islanders may be damaged through the matrix of crude propaganda.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0It spreads like a dye beyond the fisheries subject.
That CFK has to tell her athletes to be sporting and non-political at the Olympics is an insult both to true Argentine athletes and those of the other nations competing. The idea that Argentine athletes are merely tools of government is already pervading the international community
@8 Fillipo
Jun 27th, 2012 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0The phraseology that you use in the first sentence is priceless!
But not a mental image that I would choose to dwell on!
Erm..guys I think Filippo was taking the p*ss, made me giggle anyway :P
Jun 27th, 2012 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Filippo. You say “Everything our president says is based on Papal Bull 1496 ! It is in black an white and can not be disputed!”
Jun 27th, 2012 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Papal Bull 1496 had no value as Pope Alejandro VI(the Borgia Pope) had no legal mandate to divide the New World between Spain and Portugal - as everybody knows God certainly would not have given him this facility! So if this is the mainstay of La Kretina's arguments then it has zero value as do the rest of the Argentine claims for sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.
But then you are joking, aren't you?
What fishing operation is going to pay millions of dollars to the Argentine government for the privelege of getting their ass kicked around the whole South Atlantic by the Royal Navy?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe one run by the North Koreans?
Did I not tell you mates?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just was having a little chat with Mikhail Kotov from Morskoi Volk to buy with some friend some stock of his company to fish in FI waters.
We sure will make a lot of money.
By the way I met some fellows that don’t stop singing
We are living in a Russian nuclear submarine, nuclear submarine
We are living in a Russian nuclear submarine, nuclear submarine
RN watch your @ss
@6 Filippo - what is probably the funniest thing you have said is that the population of Argentina is indigenous - yes, indigenous to Europe but certainly not to South America. A population of 98% European origin is could never be called indigenous to the lands now called Argentina. The islands, on the other hand, have never had a settled, established population prior to the reassertion of soverignty in 1833 - so in fact they could be considered to be the indigenous population.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1 Japan, I think. Although Loubet-Jamber apparently lives in Wales.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Your “claim” is disputed. That papal bull was even rejected in 1493. (You really must try to base your lies on actual facts). Good-oh for the Korean War. Where North Korea attacked the South. I can see why you're unhappy. Having your Fascisti forebears fleeing from justice in Italy, probably giving up all they'd stolen and joining their nazi pals. Ever read UNCLOS? It might limit your aspirations. Wop.
@7 Yep. Illegitimate so-called “governor” and criminal/pirate.
@8 AAAARRGGHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!! Looking forward to your arrival. Organic manure is good for the grass!!!
Have to say, Flippo, that your insanity is increasing in leaps and bounds. I'm confidently expecting you, before long, to try telling us that CFK is a human woman, when anybody can see it's a stuffed pig with its ass in the air. Worked by strings, is “she”? Or does the movement come from the worms and maggots squirming around inside the carcass?
@21 Ever seen the effect of a nuclear depth-charge? Hope your russian subbies like flying!!
i don't usually comment on internet things, but i felt i had to come on here and have a good old chuckle at the argentinians who are under the impression that spanish, germans and italians are Indigenous to south america! get a grip!
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0#8
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina won the Malvinas War”
... in what alternative reality do you live? Second Life, or an alcohol/drug fuelled fantasy of your own? Or could it be that grand, rich, heroic, all conquering, world beating superpower that is Argentina?
Interesting move...
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Negotiations anyone?
More silly sabre rattling. Bit like the threat to prosecute any companies drilling for oil in Falklands waters - and where are the writs?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Peoples,
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0For the first time(l think!), l agree with Think.
Filippo is a British Troll.
Wouldn't it be simpler just to sit down and negotiate?!
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0#29
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0What's the point? There were fisheries and oil exploration agreements, until CFK's old man tore them up.
32 - Ah yes the mighty russian submarine fleet...
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Priz AS-28 Russian submarine crew safely rescued by Royal Navy
Putin honours submarine rescue team (Royal Navy)
and the poor old Kursk:
Though rescue attempts were offered by the British and Norwegian teams, Russia declined initial rescue offers
so yes i look forward to when you all live in a Russian Submarine.
Hms Asute grounded , George Galloway jajajajajajajaja english pirats , cameron
Remember the mighty Argentine submarine SANTE FE holed and put out of action by a tiny helecopter...yes you guessed it a Royal Navy helicopter.
Why exactly would Russia, China, or anybody else pay Argentina for a fishing licence entitling them to act as Argentina's proxy in a conflict with the UK?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it's just a matter of fish, they could just get a licence from the FIG, fish under the protection of the RN, and avoid all the trouble.
And if it's not just a matter of fish, the world is in serous deep shit already and I doubt if Argentina's neurosis over the Falklands is high on anybody's list except Argentina's.
@21 Dany
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0''We are living in a Russian nuclear submarine, nuclear submarine
We are living in a Russian nuclear submarine, nuclear submarine
RN watch your @ss''
Is this an example of Argentina's 'We are against Nuclear in the South Atlantic and against the Militarization there too''?
It’s all talk,
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And nothing less, and another plaything for the argie cohorts on here to moan about,
We all know where this is heading,
Now, next year , what ever ,
But one thing is certain; argentina will not be around in the aftermath, to brag about it.
[They say, the living is really the dead on holiday]
If true, then you guys are in for a very short holiday.
Forget it my friends, its just all anti British rhetoric from an aggrieved
And an increasing irrelevant government.
.
TWIMC
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's the plan, again?
Argentina sells licenses to fish in Falklands waters to Russian boats and then gets the Russians to send ships and subs down here to 'protect' their boats from the Falklands Fishery Patrol and the FIDF.
Is that it? You haven't got any armed forces so you're going to get the Russians to take on Britain (and the rest of NATO)for you? Over the Falklands?
I've heard some insane and dangerous nonsense on here but that just about takes the biscuit.
@20
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Whole south Atlantic? No, only about 200km diameter around the FI (and not even that towards the west as obviously there may be less distance from the FI to the coast so the border would be the half way point).
I don't agree with picking up problems with the Falklands in their waters about fishing, and it is not right. But in Argentina's commerial waters, they can give as many licenses as they please, kill all the fish if Argentina wants to. Neither the UK nor the Royal navy can do a darn thing about it. Any incursions into our commercial waters to harry vessels is automatically a declaration of war.
rubbish,
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you have no right to a 200 miles,
as for the british cannot do anythink about it,
we think you meant argentina can do nothing avout it,
this is more the truth , telling it .
@36
Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what a responsible member of the international community you are to have as a neighbour.
@37
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Try it. Recurring British incursions into Argentine commercial waters (yes, the 200km exclusion commerce zone is a fact, like it or not, go cry somewhere else), would be the perfect excuse for Argentina to militarize with unconventioanl weapons in the medium future.
@38
The Falkland Islanders have no neighbors. They claim we don't exist to them. I for one am glad they do.
And like I predicted to you weeks ago, Argentina will do what it pleases in its commercial waters. There is no treaty or agreement with anyone, and that is they way it shall be.
Now you see what my very elucidating argument was Hans. Imagine if Argentina HAD signed treaties and agreements with the FI/UK!!
This news would be the perfect pretext for the UK to violate our sovereignty.
In fact look at all the Brits here calling for the “Royal Navy” (which would be defeated by a numerically superior enemy, no technology saves you from just sheer numbers), to violate Argentina's waters (not the Falklands waters, I mean waters literally off our coast.
Now everyone understands what I have insisted for so long that British (and by extension Europeans), are the most untrustworthy race on Earth.
Honor was indeed a borrowed word in your languages.
Never shall Argentina sign a treaty with any of you. Never. :)
8 Filippo (#) made these comments above: “England lost Malvinas war! We felt pitty for them and let them live in peace for 30 years but now we are coming over our islands. I dream about day I will live confiscated Malvinas sheep estancia! The farms will be confiscated and given to war vets and given to the activists on www! I will sit in the sun on my porch and think colonial pirates cleaned from our islands!”
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Filippo, sounds like CFK and her cronies must have cheated you all out of the nice land and Estancias in Argentina! Can't you get a few sheep and a nice porch in the sun in your own country? You certainly won't get one in the Falklands. The more you Falkland-claimers go on like you do ad nauseum the less likely you are to have any contact or discussions with Falkland folk, so sod off and learn to behave like mature adults. That should keep you busy for the rest of this century.
#39
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And when exactly can we expect to see this numerically superior enemy defeating the RN in Argentine waters - as the RN will stay out of Argentine waters unless you declare war..
What is “an unconventional weapon” - example please.
Brriton is the most untrustworthy nation on Earth.
Well, we have to be good at something !!!!!
@40 Ratamacue (#)
Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 27th, 2012 - 01:19 pm
Filipo is taking the pish. Looks a bit 'Borat' stylee to me but he is nonetheless taking the pish.
39 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 27th, 2012 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, you're still just a troll.
''The Falkland Islanders have no neighbors. They claim we don't exist to them. I for one am glad they do.''
Really. You could get a job peddling lies for CFK. That is, if you haven't already got one.
Once again TTT, you are all over the place. Full of misinformation and self-importance. You must be Think's brother.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@33 Raven (#)
Jun 27th, 2012 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 27th, 2012 - 12:24 pm
I think that Danny has been whacking off over this:
http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Ghost_Force.html?id=iXnfOMItppcC&redir_esc=y
What the poor little mite doesn't get is that even if KFCs latest plans, plans I might add that add up to an overt hostile act of aggression. To actively try to split another country and foment hostilities between third parties such as the UK, China or Russia, would not result in Argentine occupation or sovereignty of the islands.
If Rusia or China were prepared to spill blood and bleed for these islands it would be for the hydrocarbons and the fisheries. Not Argentina's claim. If they did and thy won, they would occupy the islands themselves and let Argentina spin on it.
So no matter what tricks the Malvinistas pull, Argentina still won't get control or sovereignty. All that risk for nothing.
Malvinistas. You don't think these things through. You're about as useful as parking lights on a sace shuttle.
@36 You know the extent of the Falklands EEZ. As I recall, argieland requested that the UN approve its territorial waters be extended to 200 miles. I don't remember the UN having done so yet. So argie territorial waters are 12 miles. The rest of the South Atlantic, except for nations with an Atlantic seaboard, are international waters, right? In which the Falklands fishing fleet is entitled to do whatever is lawful under international law, right?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 And which “unconventional” weapons were you thinking of? Broadcasting CFK speeches? In the meantime, argieland signed the Arana-Southern treaty. Argieland is also a co-signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the Treaty of Tlatelolco and UNCLOS. And who is this “numerically superior enemy”? Certainly not argieland. Are you thinking of YOUR “powerful” navy? Let's just be aware that the argie navy has NEVER dared pit itself against the Royal Navy. Even that big ex-American tin can you lost last time wasn't actually proposing to “fight” the Royal Navy. And when WE sank it, all the rest of your “powerful” fleet ran for home and didn't dare stir out of harbour again. And what was in your “powerful” fleet? A light fleet aircraft carrier, 6 destroyers, 3 frigates, 4 patrol submarines (less the Santa Fe), 8 fleet tankers/transports, 2 polar vessels. That's 23 runners. You know what your “powerful” navy is good for? Interfering with unarmed fishing boats is what.
Please join this new fb page - Falkland Islands Desire The Right - dedicated to Falkland Islands current affairs, keeping the islands free and poking fun at the loonacy of the Argentine government and their various claims and their internet trolls - https://www.facebook.com/Britain1592
Jun 27th, 2012 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why wouldn't they us a FI permit???? Simples
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Biological, chemical, etc. For all the wonderful tech you claim to have, human bodies haven't changed much in 50,000 years. Still suceptible to the same old Anthrax and mustard gas.
What I meant about the Royal Navy is that if confronted in a war with China, no matter how you may contemn their “technology” as inferior, they can defeat you simply by overwhelming numbers (in a hypothetical future confrontation).
So don't be too cocky.
(35) Monty96
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say…:
”What's the plan, again?
Argentina sells licenses to fish in Falklands waters to Russian boats and then gets the Russians to send ships and subs down here to 'protect' their boats from the Falklands Fishery Patrol and the FIDF.”
I say ….:
Nope….., the plan would be:
1) ”…granting fishing licenses in the conflict zone to fishing vessels from third countries. This measure will involve an “overlap” with what the FIFD has been doing and which represents the main source of income that the Government of the Falklands has received for 30 years.”
2) ”…the possible entry of fishing vessels with Russian and Chinese flags would mean a full turn to the situation the Islanders and their current partners have enjoyed.”
3) ”…Needless to say that these countries are privileged members in the UN, and therefore, if they perform fishing activities in the area with Argentine permit, it would be very interesting to see what the reaction of the United Kingdom would be.”
4) ”…Sending Royal Navy vessels to the area to stop a helpless Russian or Chinese flagged fishing vessel would turn the UK into an “aggressor” and it would also force the British diplomacy not only to talk with Argentina but with other politically relevant countries.”
Needless to say that Argentinean fishing licenses would be considerably cheaper than the Kelper ones................
And…....., without any of those pesky fishery controls......
Chuckle chuckle©
50 ... So threatening the islands again, though you lads were for peace, rgs getting even more desparate. Like a weak child in the playground trying to get a bigger kid to help them out..desparate measures from a broke humiliated country that is rgland. It hurts doesn't it loosing a war, and never actually existing when uk first settled them its laughable. Nobody cares , now put a log on the fire and hide your dollars, bad times are coming ...jajajajajaja
Jun 27th, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(28) lsolde
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say:
For the first time(l think!), l agree with Think.
I say:
You know, we agree on many things, cher Isolde……
For instance…………………………..:
We both like ”It” strong…...
We both like ”It” black…
50 Think
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I thought so.
There is a very good reason why FIG are responsible for fisheries patrols, and that is it. Nothing to do with the navy; a few FIDF volunteers are more than adequate to see off poachers, wherever they come from.
Yawn.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wake me up if something significant actually happens.
(53) Monty96
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0IF the plan goes through, you will need quite a bit more than some FIDF volunteers and a pair of inspection ships to chase some 150-200 Argentinean licenced foreign fishing ships all over the ocean.
Good luck ;-)
@49 Argieland has signed and ratified both the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention. The first in 1972 and the second in 1993. Got anything else? Or they just another couple of international agreements argieland is going to breach?
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@50 Definitely getting desperate now. I reckon you could definitely expect the United States to take an interest. But then why would you care about starting World War Three. Not that anyone would have any compunction about wiping out the tossers that started it.
If this plan were to go ahead it would be in Falklands' recognised waters. Something Argentina has at least acknowledged for 25 years, you can't just change your mind....oh wait, look who we are dealing with.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@55, seeing as Argentina claims weapons of mass destruction are in the South Atlantic in possession of the British, I am sure we will be able to cope!
Oh wait, militarisation of the South Atlantic doesn't work in favour of this Argentine scheme...you have to love how hypocritical they are. One minute Britain is threatening South America with nuclear weapons, the next Britain are too weak to oust Chinese and Russian fishing boats from Falklands' waters. Make up your mind Think. You are all over the place.
39 Truth_Telling_Troll
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please sir, don’t send your mighty navy,
Please sir, don’t send your mighty air force,
Please sir don’t send your might army.
.chuckle
55 ... I would think the mythical Russian and Chinese fleets would realise they were being used as pawns in a master stroke by argies and would be willing to play along not realising that behind it was a wizard wheeze to hurt the islanders....we only want peace..remember that one. Best thing is any oil money will replace the missing fish licences in this hypothetical and desperate new dream. Hey and best not to tell people what you are planning, it kinda gives them time to plan a robust response. Otherwise a fiendishly clever scheme worthy of the sly deceitful humiliated rgs. Jajajajajaja ja George Galloway. Pirates etc etc
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes. Vernet applied for and recieved permission from the British government to establish his commercial venture ion the Falkland Islands.
That's why many years later he recieved compensation from the British Government for his losses after the USA chucked him out for being a pirate.
Now, that is not an Argentinian imaginary pirate.
A person who took part in actual piracy.
That's why the USA kicked him out.
And because the British government was asked permission by Vernet for his commercial venture, in 1833, when the illegal United Provinces of the River Plate penal colony was ejected, Vernet's multi-national employees were allowed to stay (of these only 2 were British).
No implanted British only population, unlike the Argentine fairy tales that are taught at Argentine schools.
60 ... Notice no rgs ever argue the facts you have just quoted..never..because its the truth....to use a fashionable troll ending chuckle chuckle
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(57) M_of_FI
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say....:
“If this plan were to go ahead it would be in Falklands' recognised waters.”
I say....:
Falkland's recognised waters ???
Whoooooot???
Recognised by whom???
Any troll want to argue the facts on 60??? Thought not distract and deceive
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 062... The fact that any argy boat will get blown out of the water is recognition enough my troll friend... And you weak country failed to hold onto a well defended position in your illegal invasion in 82 jajaja come and get it
Sorry Think old chap, I just can't see it. Argentine sponsored mass- poaching in another country's well managed fishery? You really don't have any pride left do you. Aren't you signatories to the Convention on Biological Diversity? I know how much you love to go on about treaties and conventions. And how little you actually like to do what you've agreed to.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, as someone else mentioned, getting someone else to take the risk of getting gingered up by our brave chaps and whatever gun they have mounted to the patrol boat, and pay for the privilege as well, might be a bit much to ask.
Why don't you license your own boats and send them instead?
8 Filippo: What would you do with Falkland Islands children? Would they be re-educated by Quebracho? Quebracho appears to have shown its deep commitment to the Malvinista cause with its British flag-burning and firebombs.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Especially with Falkland Islands referendum coming up, might be useful that Argentina lay out its detailed plan for implementing its Malvinista world-view amongst younger generation of Falkland Islanders.
(64) Monty69
Jun 27th, 2012 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may not see it................
But Mr. Andres Loubet-Jamber; FIS co-founder; publisher and author of the above article does...
(65) JohnN
Now you are excelling in turnipidity................
Insisting in discussing with a well known British troll posing as an Argentinean poster.......
What a Turnip.................
66... rg posters and bloggers are state funded propaganda trolls. The mighty British government doesn't employ such desperate tactics. Isn't there a nice film showing rg trolls being paid in food for blogging? I suppose gas bottles are the currency now, man it's cold , how does malbec keep in cold weather, iam quite partial to a chilled Italian red mmmm
Jun 27th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 TTT
Jun 27th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see that your understanding of linguistics and etymology is as distorted with atavistic prejudice as your understanding of history, law, and international relations. And indeed, your understanding of your own country's fisheries policies : Argentina has just made an agreement with Uruguay on hake fisheries.
But prove me wrong and try this quiz on the topic of treaties. Who said this about whom :
”... they would consider the violation of a treaty no greater offence than a lie told by schoolboy. With the Bey of Tripoli or the Emperor of Morocco we might for a time maintain unviolated the provisions of a Treaty but with these people if a temporary advantage could be gained they would violate a treaty on the day of its ratification.”
(Admittedly, it is a bit unfair on the Bey of Tripoli and the Emperor of Morocco).
http://www.archive.org/stream/diplomaticcorres003684mbp/diplomaticcorres003684mbp_djvu.txt
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do I get a medal?
@52 Think,
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't be ridiculous Cher Think.
lf you invited the Russians and/or Chinese into this area, they would never leave.
lf the Chinese decided to establish naval bases on the Argentine coast, please tell me how you would stop them.
Afterall, Argentina would be a more glittering prize than the Falklands.
With your minerals, farmlands & fresh water, you would make an ideal Chinese colony.
Argentina would regret it forever(if it had a future, that is....).
Try not to be a complete turnip, Think.
FYI,
I like my coffee strong, scalding hot with milk & cream. No sugar.
Occasionally with a teaspoon of honey. Ah, bliss.
l donot drink black coffee.
Spain has just one on penalties.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, seems like common sense will not work with the demented witch, CFK. So, despite the inclination I personally have (and have previously stated) that a sharing agreement of some kind would be a adult way to proceed; it appears that the Argentinean position is they want 100%. So, I guess this adsolutist notion is founded on the basis that the Islands should be owned by those who first discovered them and/or whoever first settled them and/or whichever former colonial power once had dominion over them. As with Argentina itself? That seemingly being the case, may we presume that the current crop of Argentinean interlopers presently occupying mainland Argentina will be deporting themselves out of that stolen territory and handing it back to its just and rightful owners? Namely; whatever indigenous peoples and/or their heirs who lived on the land now known as Argentina before the Spanish came and stole the land from them? Then, in that context, with that 'reparations' action taken, one could argue that the Argentinean 'claim' could have some slight metit. Or, perhaps not. Since then the modern Argentinean State would no longer exist, Spanish claims to the Falklands would be null and void since they were based entirely on theft, as if they never happened, and the Falkland Islanders could then continue on as the sole rightful heirs to those Islands in perpetuity. See? Its really very simple and logical. And, natually, if some other nation would wish to invade and lay claim to the Falklands? Well, let them try. Bring it on. Or get smart and leave these Islands alone and turn your attention to more pressing business.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@72 El Supremo (#)
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:31 pm
That sums it up yes but please use paragraphs.
That a sharing agreement of some kind would be a adult way to proceed
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[sorry, no . ]
The first and foremost thing argentina must do,
Is stop all the aggression that has been aimed at the islanders, and the offending article removed from the constitution,
And then, there may, just may, be a glimmer of hope,
But the facts are, as the islanders have suffered all that Argentina has thrown at them, it will be the Falkland islanders and no one else, who will decide who governs them.
This is what they want, and this is what they are going to get.
.
And like I predicted to you weeks ago, Argentina will do what it pleases in its commercial waters. There is no treaty or agreement with anyone, and that is they way it shall be.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TTT
http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/convention_overview_fish_stocks.htm
Argentina ratified 1995
The news that French and Italian companies are investing in Falklands oil demonstrates that CFK's threats to “prosecute” any companies drilling for oil are just hot air, and are viewed as such by the oil industry. Same goes for the equally silly threats about fishing.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but when will she take action .
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 41 Clyde15 who asks “What is “an unconventional weapon - example please.”
Jun 27th, 2012 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ever heard of a slingshot? a pea shooter?
Argentina is building giant versions of both in their secret underground armories.
@41 Clyde15 @78 St.John @50 Think
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plaid Cymru.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
It would be very unwise for Argentina to involve the Chinese or Russians by selling them bogus fishing licenses for the Falkland Islands territorial waters.
Jun 27th, 2012 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite apart from the fact that the Chinese and Russians are far too clever to be 'manipulated' into a conflict over fishing, both countries would refrain from involvement for other serious reasons.
Both countries trade heavily with NATO countries and the last thing that their governments would want would be to find that their trade was suddenly inhibited, or that raw materials were restricted because of conflict. They have to look after their own citizens, so they are not about to get involved in a war when they can buy the fishing licenses from the FIG instead.
Argentina's neighbours would be none too happy about Chinese or Russian involvement either. Especially if this meant that Russian or Chinese nuclear submarines were in the area.
The Russians are known to have carried nuclear torpedoes in their SSNs (although whether they still do is up to question) and it's likely that the Chinese do too. However, any involvement of the Russian or Chinese SSNs would undermine Protocol II of the Treaty of Tlatelolco. Not only that, but in doing so, Argentina could be construed to be conspiring with a nuclear state and would therefore lose protection under the treaty. Any provocation instigated by either navy could escalate into Buenos Aires reaching the temperature of 5 million degrees celsius in a microsecond.
Not that it would be allowed to happen though, because any Russian or Chinese sub would be followed (as they are most of the time) at a discrete by a NATO SSN. The United States would be compelled to get involved on the British side to prevent the matter escalating beyond their control.
By selling fake licenses, all the Argentine Government is going to do is force some poor fools to have their fishing boats confiscated when they get arrested in FIG Territorial waters without permission.
@nigelpwsmith
Jun 28th, 2012 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Already setup mate.
Russian subs already patrolling on Arg waters close to Falklands and nearby.
And since last year Russians are testing on UK’s waters (Scotland and nearby) UK’s capability to respond.
Nuclear arms in transit are not regulated in fact US has made reserves about the subject.
And Argentina and Brazil didn’t ratify the treaty for obvious reasons.
So Arg. and Brazil can test nuclear devices meanwhile they declare that is for pacific use without violate the treaty. Ha ha.
And after all since when and treaty is a problem?
In any eventual case anyone can pull out of the treaty.
“By selling fake licenses, all the Argentine Government is going to do is force some poor fools to have their fishing boats confiscated when they get arrested in FIG Territorial waters without permission”
I would like to see you confiscating and arresting Russian and Chinese fleets.
You will be bombed ASAP.
@81
Jun 28th, 2012 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Gosh.
I think we can safely say Argentina is over the first hurdle, which is to find a country stupid and irresponsible enough to think up such a plan in the first place.
The next stage will be to find a third country stupid and irresponsible enough to fall for it. Give us a call when you've got one. It won't be Russia or China.
@82 Quite true Hans.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dany's 'sabre-rattling' is not only ridiculous, but demonstrates the desperate nature of the Argentine claim.
I don't believe we have anything to worry about here. Nobody will buy fake licenses when they know it will cost them far more when they are caught. So many governments are already buying FIG licenses and making a fortune from the catches to pay anything to Buenos Aires and lose their boats.
Likewise, Russia and China have far more important things to do, like selling to the very countries they would upset if they were embroiled in Argentina's little game.
China pays only lip service to Argentina, so they can continue to sell into that market. But the moment the Argentine economy starts collapsing, they'll withdraw.
China wants responsible trading partners who pay their bills and Argentina is renowned the world over for not paying their debts.
@HansNiesund & nigelpwsmith
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It is interesting to note that with the loss of the UK’s aircraft carriers and their aircraft to defence cuts, there has been a noted resurgence of Russian naval activity in UK waters – particularly in Scottish waters.”
“UK reported that the Royal Navy mounted an emergency scramble of a warship (yes, singular) and fighter jets in response to – guess what – a Russian aircraft carrier carrying around 12 fighter jets – off the east coast of Scotland.”
“We can probably expect to see more of such visible games around Scottish waters and with Argentina limbering up again on the issue of the Falkland Islands, where we are indeed now prospecting for oil and minerals, these are not going to be easy times.”
Next coming soon China (takes time because I have to find info in English for monolingual fellows MPFI posters)Agh!!!!!!!!!!.
Stay tuned boys while I fetch FSS Russian HQ for latest news.
#81
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0”Since last year Russian subs. have been testing response times in Scottish (UK) waters”
They have been doing this since the Americans set up a base in the Holy Loch in March 1961. Tell us something new !!
No doubt the USN and the RN are doing the same thing near the North Cape in Norwegian territory.
#49
So the Argentine are advocating the use of biological weapons. Interesting news from the peace loving people of Argentina. I'm sure that this would invoke some reaction from the civilized world from which you have just departed.
You are also saying - in a roundabout way -that hordes of less technically efficient Chinese vessels would destroy the RN in Argentine waters. What are hundreds of Chinese warships doing in Argentine waters ?
The UK has always been rather good at unconventional warfare.
How does this one suit you?
The UK needs to deal with its nuclear waste. Load a bulk carrier with this waste using a flag of convenience, sail it to BA, moor it in the harbour then sink it using small explosive charges to breach the containers. BA would be rehabitable in about 500,000 years. No worse than the use of Anthrax.
Think (82)
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Recognised by Argentina. Let’s look at the facts shall we? And not Argentina’s current mood.
Argentine fishing vessels do not impede Falklands waters, if they do and leave very quickly when warned. Argentina respect Falklands airspace (exactly the same territorial waters) and act as such. LAN seeks Falkland’s permission to enter it. Any plane entering Falklands airspace seeks permission from Falklands Civil Aviation.
So let’s forget what the present mood is Argentina about the Falklands, recognise the facts, and that is the Falklands has recognised waters and airspace for the last 25 years. If you wish to ignore these to validate your own points and self-importance, then that’s your own incompetence. And I know this because of who I have
84 - The mighty Russian Aircraft Carrier fleet numbers...wait for it 1, I repeat one ageing carrier. Hardly an armada (sorry no offence)
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0So dont think we are going to worry to much about that. Our 2 new supercarriers are under construction
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?163878-Queen-Elizabeth-Class-Aircraft-Carriers-News-and-Discussion/page320
some great pictures, has the mighty Argentina got any plans purchase another carrier, perhaps another ex Royal Navy Carrier like last time.
We still have HMS illustrious (aircraft carrier) and HMS Ocean (helicopter carrier) only only no dam harriers.
Still cant wait for the first cruise south in HMS Prince Of Wales, and hopefully she will have some nice F35 fighters to play with.
It looks likely that HMS QE and HMS POW will be carrying a batch of brand new Harriers when they are launched.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The F35B is turning out to be way too expensive (currently $200m each with $300m lifetime running costs) and there are questions about its ability to land under certain conditions. Indeed, they believe that the rolling landings proposed could be suicidal if the ship rolls at the wrong moment.
It should be remembered that one SHAR was lost overboard (with pilot in cockpit about to take off!) in 1982 because Invincible did a sharp turn to starboard when the deck anchors were off. The pilot ejected, but was none too happy about his plane flying off the wet deck sideways!
Whilst we still need AEW, ECM and inflight refuelling capability, there are possible fixes for these. Cannot say more about this at present, because flight tests are under way.
The SHAR and GR9 maybe rated as 3-Gen fighters, but their unique characteristics make them an easy match for any 4.5-Gen or 4-Gen fighter. It has a lot to do with the design of the aircraft and how it performs in all areas of the flight envelope, at low and high speed.
Improvements in radar & weapon carrying capability extend the range of engagement. One of the SHARs greatest advantages though is its ability to set down even if there is no runway. Even if MPA was unavailable, SHARs would still be able to operate from the Islands or most flat decks. Even if you were to lose one of your carriers, SHARs could still operate from the deck of the helicopter carriers or assault ships.
Economy and ability will convince the British Government to re-open the production lines for more Harriers.
Can't see them producing Gr9 it's basically a ground attack plane, no air to air capability except self defence. F35b will equip a squadron of us marines by November 2012, cant see it really they are a tad behind, but still streets ahead of old harrier. When landing in hot conditions with ordinance it will need to do a rolling landing, this saves jettisoning valuable weapons. Harrier was seen as a impressive but not useful plane when it was first developed. F35 with external drop tank and stores will pack a decent punch, hope they develop it to fire storm shadow ...nice bit of kit that.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#88
Jun 28th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe I am wrong but is the F35B not a vertical landing aircraft like the Harrier. Like the Harrier, it could be deployed ashore with minimal runway requirements
The F35C is the conventional carrier variant. Catapult launched and arresting hook recovered.
Although the Harrier was a great aircraft in its day, its time has passed as an interceptor. Its dog fighting abilities were brilliant but nobody dog fights nowadays. The US Marines use it for ground attack, with F18's flying top cover.
The F35B is our only option unless we fit cats & traps. Then the Rafale would have been a good buy.
Remember, from a politician's point of view, a lot of jobs in the UK are invested in the F35 AND A LOT OF MONEY!
After having sold the entire Harrier fleet and spares to the US at a knock down price, do you really think that the govt. would reopen the assembly line - even if this were possible. They would have to resign !
Ask any FAA pilot if he would rather fight an F18E, Rafale or Sukhoi T-50 in a Harrier or F35B, I'm pretty sure the answer would be the F35B.
The only money that the politicians are concerned about is how much British Aerospace uses to lobby them. They may have subcontracts for the F35, but I believe that there are enough problems for just about every potential user to ditch it. The Canadians are already muttering about pulling out.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They had so many problems with the F22 that they cut the production run. The F35 is now labelled as the white elephant that ate the Pentagon. I doubt that they will produce as many as expected. Not with a $200m price tag at current prices.
The decision to ditch the SHAR & GR9 was made because the RAF & British Aerospace teamed up and lied to the politicians that they would save more without the Harrier. The truth was that they would have saved more by getting rid of the Tornado. But that would have meant far more RAF pilots and navigators being ditched, so the RAF lobbied to get rid of the Royal Navy aircraft instead. But they had to accept losing their own GR9 (even though they were in the middle of an expensive upgrade refit) because otherwise their argument would make no sense. By losing the Harriers, the government has not only saved LESS money (about £10 billion less), but they've exposed British citizens to attack.
The pilots that fought in 82 want the F35C, but failing that they want the F18. It's a proven airframe and it works. The costs make sense as well. Combined cost of a mix of F18s and F18 Growlers are £41m per unit. One fifth of the cost of a F35B. Given the number of squadrons they need, it makes far more sense.
At present, the F35B cannot fly above mach 1 without losing its stealth coating - so less able than a SHAR. The rolling landings are perceived as suicidal by experienced pilots, so I do not believe that they will go with this, unless they want to lose $200m off the side of the ship.
The pilots who flew in 82 still consider it a better aircraft than the F15 (beaten by the SHAR in ACM tests) which incidentally Argentina has placed an order to buy.
R.A.F.= Joint Strike Fighter F-35
Jun 28th, 2012 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35jointstrikefighter.cfm
F35B
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35jointstrikefighter.cfm
.
@62 By the United Nations. Sorry, I forgot you don't recognise the UN except when you think it will help you crooks.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66 But then you are a F***ing PR** C***.
@81 Except argieland did. And so did Brazil. Liar. But don't mind us. Your “citizens” are just “cannon fodder”, right? So you won't care when we kill them!
@84 Russian tincans sink just as easily as argie ones. Remember? Britain has never been frightened of Russia. We've beaten the sh*te out of them just like we beat the sh*te out of argieland.
@92 briton
Jun 28th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe you ought to read Sharkey's World. He does have 3 Argie kills to his name and commanded 801 Sqdn - the 'Top Guns' when it came to SHAR.
http://www.sharkeysworld.com/search/label/11.%20Joint%20Strike%20Fighter
It's all very well reading the propaganda from BAE - they have a vested interest in the F35 after all, but the F35B is simply not as good as the F35C and if the costs keep escalating, the only aircraft we could afford will be the F18.
Seeing as the politicians have been persuaded (by the RAF - because the Navy do not want the F35B) to build the carriers without Cats&Traps, they will have to build more SHARs to use off the ski-jumps, or convert the carriers (at even greater cost) back to Cats&Traps in the future.
I'm afraid the experts opinion (the pilot's view) is that we need Cats&Traps to be able to operate with other navies. The F18 appears to be the right value and performance for the Navy's needs.
If we had Cats&Traps, the French would probably sell us Rafale and give us an incredible deal on lifetime costs & servicing. They might even split the costs of the carriers and operate one whilst we operate the other, but then have both available for combined use if necessary.
Guys.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We would never purchase aircraft from France at any price, for the same reason we have never purchased far superior aircraft from the Americans. Politics, we simply could not afford to lose the aero industry jobs. I do not know what the contracts are for these new American aircraft, but I strongly suspect that some parts the aircraft will be built in this country. The RAF, until the introduction of the Typhoon, always operated less superior aircraft than many smaller Airforces, such as Belgium, Holland and Norway. All operating the F16, which I think you will agree are much better than anything we ever had.
@95 reality check
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny you should mention the F16. I don't know if you are aware that the RAF recently did ACM tests with Typhoons against Pakistani F16 and the Typhoons were completely wiped out. It was very embarrassing.
If you've read Sharkey's book, you'll similarly know that the SHAR thrashed everything that the US Air Force could provide. F15, F14, F16 and F5. The Yanks could not believe why the SHAR was so good. They sent their best pilots & aircraft and were completely trounced. The answer was that the SHAR pilots were applying the 'Golden' rules of fighter combat.
1. Know your aircraft and weapons system backwards.
2. Know the weaknesses of your aircraft and weapons system backwards.
3. Apply the better points of your weapons system and aircraft performance to a particular fight - adopt the tactics that work for your aircraft.
4. Know detailed capabilities of the opposing fighter - do not allow him to use his capabilities to their best advantage
5. Approach the fight in a totally aggressive manner
6. Predict where the enemy aircraft will go to next and move your aircraft to take advantage of his move
7. Sight the opposition before he sees you.
8. Keep looking for the unseen bogey, because they may appear at any moment.
Sharkey was nearly shot down because of 8. One of the Argie Daggers was not seen until he was in a opportunistic firing position on Sharkey. Thankfully, Sharkey was able to manoeuvre to put this Dagger in his sights and he shot it down. The pilots ejected safely.
The option to purchase from the French was just an idea. The French need a carrier and we need aircraft. The Rafale worked very well in Libya. It must also be remembered that the French might be desperate to sell us aircraft at bargain prices.
@90 Clyde15
Yes the F35B can land vertically, but not in all weathers.
The Harrier is still a great aircraft and can beat 4.5 gen fighters.
As for suggesting 'Nobody dogfights', you need to read a lot more about recent & past air combat!
94 nigelpwsmith
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your reply
First of, I do read sharkeys blog, and lots of other military bloggs,
And all very interesting, much of my info may well slip from them,
As for the planes,, I have just copied info on the planes ,
No more no less,
My very own personal opinion of my navy is as simple as hell,
The royal navy should have 3 mighty carriers of at least 120,000 tons, with vastly extended runways,
The USA on TV last night was stating that even there carriers are just not long enough,
We should have a plane that can either use the runway, or lift vertically, or both,
As long as they can at least go to mach [1] at a minimum
Up to say mach 2, carry all the missiles that is required of them, and the fuel to a rang of at least 600 miles from the ship.,
Im not much up on planes, but I feel that we could if we tried, make them British made,
But for some unknown reason, that gets less and less each year.
Thanks
Briton.
p/s, not everyone agrees with sharkey,
have you seen,
http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.co.uk/
@96Nigelpwsmith
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Be interested to read your source on the Pakistanif16 V Typhoon. I did read an article which was published by Pakistan, but there was a proviso on it that the evidence was Pakistan Airforce and could not be validated, I would be interested for two reasons.
1. Is it the same source.
2. Is that source reliable.
@97Briton.
As I understood it the Mirrage/Dagger were forced to engage the Harrier, in the Harriers optimal envelope. ie they had to engage them air to air on the Harriers home ground. I know of only two reported occasions where FAA engaged air to air with Harriers, on both occasions they were defeated, One of those may be the engagement you refer to. What we have to remember, much as in 1940, the FAA were engaging at their maximun endurance range. That is not to take anything away from our pilots, but air to air, the Harrier deffinately had the advantage and the FAA knew it.
98 reality check
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks
But I think the last bit was meant for [ 96]
Personally I just want the british RAF and the navy to have the best,
Or at the very least, ample amounts of 2nd,
Sadly we just seem to end up, with less and less , costing more and more,
But I do hear, that because the MOD keeps altering and changing everything, its not easy .
.
Both really.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sharkey was an incredible pilot, loved is interview in 82, that beard and moustache. Every inch a Navy man.
@96Nigelpwsmith
Perhaps the account above is simply a lie, or anyway a bit of a fighter pilot tall story. But the pilot quoted will be easily identifiable inside his community if not to the outside world, and he could expect a lot of flak for telling a lie on such a matter in public. It seems likelier that the story is the truth as he perceived it: that the RAF's new superfighter was thrashed in the very type of combat it is supposed to be best at by a 1970s-era plane, albeit much modernised.
Is this the article you are reffering too. Authors words not mine, fighter pilots are known for tall tales. Can you give me another source to this story, factual, if possible please.
Oh! Dunny Burger does not have any clue about weapons
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0He does not know the difference of F35B and F35C.
Did I not tell you guys that you live from Illusions?
So no carriers, no Harriers, No F35B, No F35C, no money, no jobs and no future.
Did I miss something?
But don’t worry mates.
The ARG MoD as a way to don’t humiliate you so much is thinking to lend you some Pampas (old model of course).
So you can paint them like Harriers that way you can put something on the carriers to take pictures to be publish on BBC (a little bit of Photoshop will help) and videos to upload in YouTube while they bomb you from 250km with GPSGB +-15mts tolerance. Ha ha ha.
BTW here a Brit want to say something to you
Barabap, barabap...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_whAnYCQ4
Andres had better stick to fishing because his jounalistic skills are very lacking.By the way,is he Argentinian ? or is he getting back-handers from them ?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0@100 reality check
Jun 29th, 2012 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sadly, I cannot remember the source, but I was shocked to read it. It may have been a defence expert on Twitter that referenced an article on the Typhoon.
I believe that it illustrates the problem though. It's all very well that the F16 is a 3-gen fighter from the 70s, but in ACM, it's entirely about the pilot and how he applies the golden rules. It seems to me that the Pakistani pilots may have focussed on getting the best from their airframe, just as Sharkey did in the SHAR. Repeated head to head engagements against F15s and they kept on losing.
Do you remember what he said in his book about the FAA pilot who kept flying his F4 at max throttle? The moment he was bingo fuel, he had to disengage & promptly lost. However, as soon as he learned to fight his aircraft at slow speeds, he suddenly discovered that speed is not the be all and end all of air combat. The pilot who knows how to fight in all areas of the flight envelope usually wins, because the opponent will make mistakes if he is not able to fight at slow speed.
The incident where Sharkey was almost shot down was 21 May 1982. Sharkey sighted two Daggers whilst on CAP above the Sound. Steve Thomas was optimal to engage and shot down both, but there was a third Dagger which had joined the pair, which Sharkey did not see until he was turning to engage the first pair. This Dagger fired his cannon but missed, Sharkey turned to engage and killed it with a AIM9L. Classic example of the 'Unseen Bogey'.
Although they were at maximum range and this did put fuel/speed constraints on the Arg pilots, it was their inability to apply the golden rules which led to so many of them being shot down. They had plenty of courage, but didn't have the experience to know that they could take on the SHAR if there was enough of them employing the right tactics. Whether they've learned from this is unknown, but I do know the Argentine Navy learned their lessons well & have adapted because of them.
#96
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0I still stick by my assumption that nobody should get into a dogfight.
With modern weaponry and sensor systems the idea is to whack your enemy at long range before he even knows you are there. If you “mix it” there is a very good chance of being shot down with all aspect missiles that can pull 30g and are aimed by helmet sights. If you can see it, you can launch a missile at it.
No need to turn inside and chase up its tail. The performance of modern fighters can impose g loadings greater than the human body can stand - the very conditions found in an old fashioned dogfight.
The son of a friend of mine was a pilot with 43 Squadron, flying the F3 Tornado. His philosophy was locate at long range, fire missiles, full sweepback, engage burners and get away. If you are in a dogfight - bad news.
Surprisingly, the little Bae Hawk, with sidewinders was rather good at dogfighting at zero feet. They were to be employed as “last ditch”defence over airfields. During exercises, I have seen them chased by F-15's and F-16's and cause them no end of problems trying to get a kill.
In these discussions, we are all armchair pundits and rely on informed/misinformed stories, gossip, rumours and conjecture.
The final point is, we will get what the government decide - end of story.
Anyway, I say bring back the Buccaneer and Lightning !!
101 - duny Burger
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have two aircraft carriers and are building 2 super douper ones, thanks for the loan of your 30 year old Pampas Grass jets but we have our very own jet trainers ta, think India just purchased a couple of billion pounds worth...mmm money.
Could the argentine navy lend us there ex Royal Navy carrier, you remember the one that run back to port jajajajajajaja RUNAWAY!!!
@104 Clyde15
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are indeed all armchair pundits until we climb into the cockpit.
Your Tornado friend is making a typical statement which exposes the deficiencies of the Tornado. Many RAF pilots turned up after the event in 82, having taken no part in the combat & then claimed that they would have won if they had used their standard tactics. Don't believe them, for they know not what they say!
Truth is that it is all well & good suggesting you shoot your opponent down at long range by radar, but this is usually a recipe for disaster. During 82, Sharkey was ordered to intercept (& destroy) 2 bogeys flying west near the Carriers. He knew that they would be SHARs outbound to CAP, but Hermes ordered him to intercept. He refused. He was ordered to intercept & destroy by 'the Flag'. He refused again & asked Hermes to verify the bogey's identity. Eventually, Hermes agreed they were SHAR.
Apart from illustrating culpable negligence by 'the Flag' (not the only occasion), it shows that you cannot simply shoot down what you see at long range on radar, because it maybe a blue on blue. The SHAR pilots did not have any tactical system to tell them if the target was friend or foe other than their own brain & knowledge gained before the flight. They had to keep a mental picture of the battlefield in their head, because there was far too much to do in a single seat cockpit over hostile territory.
Your story about the Hawk is very true. It is a very agile aircraft within the right flight envelope at low level.
As for advanced weapons systems, well all I can say is that they sound good on paper, but all paper plans go out the window in the first second of actual battle. The United States did not envisage ACM in Vietnam. They also thought that their missiles would do all the work. How wrong they were proved. That's the reason they have Top Gun. The US want the best instructors, that's why they regularly asked for Royal Navy Air Warfare Instructors such as Lt Cdr John Eyton-Jones.
good old reagan :)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=20155
80- NIgel: our licenses are so “fake” as yours!!
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are selling licences in a territory dispute soveregnity recognized by UN-
I hope my country sell licences (today, Mercosur will signed TLC whit China), and sell same for oil explorations in the same places you stay-
And is sure we cut link whit Punta Arena, and start flights from BUE, even if LAN wants to do that...but from BUE...from our land....
Regards-
108 ...the Un doesn't recognise Argentinian sovereignty of the falklands , it nearly logs the spurious claims made to.a toothless sub committee once a year. my nan could claim Argentina and log a claim at the Un..doesn't mean diddly. The only resolutions broken from the UN are by Argentina 501 springs to mind when the illegal occupation took place in 82 and UK kicked RG backside back to there stolen mainland.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Couldn't understand the rest of your post sorry...hope your 30 percent percentage inflation isn't hurting to much, and the power cuts and gas shortages, man you want to sort out your own land before trying to steal someone elses.
108
Jun 29th, 2012 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0argentina does not exist . does it lol.
@108 Rosarino,
Jun 29th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your licenses are fake,
Your entire country is fake.
Give it back to the native people & go back to Europe.
What about how argentina's former president, Julio Argentino Roca, the creator of “La Campañaal Desierto” (the desert campaign) sent all of the blacks and indigenous people that lived in Argentina to fight in a war so he could kill them off? Argentina is guilty of ethnic cleansing & genocide and the world should be made aware of that. And why was this done? To steal the lands away from the indigenous people and he of course used what he considered “undesireables” to complete his mission. A fierce battle between the indigenous people who owned the lands and the indigenous people and blacks of african origin who were obligated to fight this battle left hundreds of thousands of them dead and Argentina's south (Patagonia, Chubut) in the hands of the colonial settlers, who at that time were mainly from Spain. And who owns a ton of land in the South of Argentina? Cristina Kirchner, Argentina's president, the laughing stock of the world. Give those lands you stole back to the indigenous people where your hotels are now built Cristina, you have blood on your hands!
Jun 30th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0109-110-111
Jun 30th, 2012 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Listen yourselves:
“Your country is a fake”
“Un isn´t recognize your sovereignity over Malvinas”
“you are a joke”
more blablablabalbla-----
No one says UN recognize OUR sov..... but no ones recognizes YOU sov, your FLAG, and no onés recognize you even as a neighbours......even yourselves can´t recognize as SOUTHAMERICAN PEOPLE.... your are same as I, same as bolivians, chileans, paraguayans, and brazilians....you are living in south atlantic, NEAR you only have waters and ARGENTINA....no others neigh around...and the others close to you says we HAVE RIGTHS......don´t you feel very lonely, questioning a complete continent who says, please, sit down and discuss who you are!
112- this is special for you -
Argentina figth against MAPUCHES to conquer Patagonia-
Mapuches are original from Chile
OUR indigenas are TEHUELCHES , and they was conquest by Mapuches-
When Julio Argentino Roca start to campaign, Tehuelches join to Roca campaign to kill mapuches-
Your stupids words are so stupid......if you don´t have knoledge and memory, please try to read more history: when Mr. Roca finish their campaign, LOS OF BTITISH PEOPLE HAS BENEFITS, because 90% of our caws was sell to UK for EAT and process in England- Leather, etc etc etc for years was ARGENTINA the most important supply-
Remember later Roca Runciman agreement, when Argentina sell all production to UK-
Ignorante- tu pais esquilmo media America, como tenes cara para reclamar cosas como la campana al desierto. Cambia de dealer, la merca que te venden te esta haciendo mal-
Regards-
As the Argentine Government decided to get involved in British politics by trying to support Welsh & Scottish independence, a campaign has started to assist the Mapuche Indians to recover the lands stolen by the colonial Argentines.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Next time CFK decides to go to the Committee for decolonisation, she'll have to face a hoard of angry Mapuche Amerindians demanding the return of Patagonia & highlighting Argentina's record of genocide against the indians to colonise their land.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
The Mapuche indians really did suffer brutal & murderous colonisation, but the Falklands belonged to the British already, so their peaceful re-occupation of British territory was perfectly correct & has been recognised as such by the Spanish in 1863, even though they originally disputed it in 1770.
113 ... Have you posted in english.? It's doesn't make sense, google translate doesn't always work to well. Shame because you had a lot to say, just doesn't makes sense. Rg school teachers have not been paid for years though
Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0114-
Jun 30th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we don´t care about your scottish problems: is your problem, and if they want to determinate their future, we are agree-
BUT if they want to keep british, we are agree too ;)
Why? because they are ORIGINALS from there- I stay in UK and Scotland and of course, they are different-
Both are very good people; but scottish are more funny guys, different sense of humor...and believe me...they are the most close to an argentinian as I see in all europe-...inlcuding spaniards and italians.
Mapuches are from CHILE and if you want to speak about this, please talk whit chileans and then tell me what they say to you about this-
I don´t think any chilean will agre for CUT their territory.... butyou can try!
In the Malvinas live british people; same as 300.000 british people who live in Argentina, freely, and we don´t say to them how they have to live their live-
Regards-
By the way:
Unconvential weapons i think he means wmds and you wont like the British response a bucket of instant sunshine arriving at machknows what.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aprat from that why buy an arg licence when you can buy a fig licence with no issues.?
113
Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no
the school is closed go home.
Accept flights. Come here to study Spanish. We will go there to study English. To give you a chance to peace.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Isolde: his gift could not be delivered by the security measures during the visit of William. My idea was to delivery at the St Mary's Catholic church and tell for you in the internet. It will be in another time.
I hear antartica region has the worlds most productive fishing waters. I think this attitude towards our resources is long over due, Democracy and freedom is for everyone, not just brits.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Democracy and freedom is for everyone, not just brits.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[it is for everyone]
sadly its CFK that wants to restict it, is this not the very truth .
Rosarino,
Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here you have NO RIGHTS.
This is not your land.
lf you want to make trouble for us, we can use our oil money & make trouble for you.
Wouldn't it be far simpler just to be our good neighbour?
You have plenty of unused land. Develope it & keep your coveteous eyes off ours.
Rosarino
Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are but a bud,
That we nip in ??
.
I don't eat or like fish but if it makes good money for the Argentine economy, I will certainly start eating it. Most Chinese and Europeans eat it why not Argentine's.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0most brits eat beans on toast,
Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0but your pint is what .
@124 - Pirat-hunter
Jun 30th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you Argentines only ate beef, as you're always bragging how much of the stuff you eat, and we tell you that too much red meat causes bowel cancer.
However, good on you, improving your diet. I hear that the Falklands sell their fish at very reasonable rates, but you will have to export something of equal value due to your mad bint of a Presidents lunatic policies.
As for the article. I always suspected the Argentine Government were cowards, but trying to get someone to do your fighting for you is just...embarrassing.
Russia and China won't touch these illegal 'Argentine' licenses with a barge pole, as they have nothing to gain by it.
But if you were to let them, I don't know, put some military bases in Argentina, then they buy some. But then the Yanks wouldn't want to be left out, so the Falkland Islanders could allow the US to put a base on West Falkland, and the Paraguayans might let them put a base in their country, and so might Uruguay...and so on and so forth.
Doesn't sound like a recipe for 'peace' to me, but if that's what you Argentines want, then bring it on.
The intransigence of both parties, does not get us anywhere.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We must begin to speak, know, look at each other face to face.
@127 Malvinense
Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is this.
Falkland Islanders are happy to talk with Argentine government about anything but sovereignty. That is simply not for discussion.
The Argentine government refuses to acknowledge the Falkland Islanders, because if they did, they'd also have to recognise their rights. The Argentine government only wants to talk with the British government about sovereignty.
The British government will not discuss sovereignty unless the Falkland islanders want them to (which they don't) & because the Argentine government continues to ignore the Falkland Islander's rights, the Falkland Islanders will never allow the British government to talk.
It's a classic Catch-22.
It is an eternal stalemate.
However, the problem for Argentina is that in the next couple of years, oil production will commence.
If Argentina attempts to interfere in this production, in Falklands waters, then the British government will defend the platforms. This could result in another war.
Furthermore, as this article suggests, Argentina is trying to involve outsiders in the dispute by selling fake fishing licenses. Whilst these outsiders know that they are being manipulated, this could also lead to a conflict.
On top of this, by attempting to involve China and Russia, Argentina would lose any protection under Protocol II. Any conflict could swiftly escalate with unfortunate consequences for the Argentine mainland.
The only way to defuse the tension is for Argentina to sit down at the table with the Falkland Islanders and try to reach agreements similar to those that Argentina walked away from before. This would also allow both countries (Argentina & the Falkland Islanders) to agree to share resources and cooperate over the extraction.
First there are a few confidence building steps, like removing bans on shipping, air transport and agreeing to allow trade. Argentina's unilateral aggression must be stopped & reversed. Then there can be talks but not about sovereignty.
PICARDO TELLS SPAIN HE WILL NEVER HAND ‘AN IOTA OF SOVEREIGNTY’
Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As regards Gibraltar, Mr Picardo said that “we never move from where we are” and that “Gibraltar is British and belongs to the Gibraltarians
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25307
learn mr argie, just like them, the Falklands will always be British as long as they wish it,
Talk be all means,
But sovereignty is of the agenda .
.
There is a significant number of Argentines who believe that the interests of the Falkland Islanders comes first - because it is their home.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, they cannot speak out that this is their opinion, because to do so would be seen as unpatriotic or even treachery.
The only way things will change and improve for Argentina is if there is a dramatic change in the politics of the country. This would also be welcomed by other countries, if it meant that Argentina was more responsible, paid their debts on time, did not put trade restrictions on imports or try to blockade the Islanders to bully them into submission.
I cannot see that happening unless CFK is forced (by the Argentine public) to retire to her holiday home in the Caymans with all the dollars she's stolen from Argentine citizens.
Sadly, CFK is acting no different from the Junta. She's using the Falkland islands issue as a banner to get the Argentine public behind her. She's confiscating foreign owned businesses to bolster her reserves, then trying to sell them off to anyone who'll buy, like the Chinese or Russians. Trouble is, that they do not need the legal problems that this will cause for them with the EU if they did.
It's the oil which will be CFK's downfall. She cannot stop the Falkland Islanders extracting it without causing another Falklands War. Once the oil is flowing, the Islanders will have more than enough revenue to secure the Islands forever.
@128 Hello nigelpwsmith, I understand. But ... Why not open a door to hope?
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Accept flights. Is necessary to talk. May achieve self-determination. Perhaps a state may be associated with Argentina, with the defense by the United Kingdom. You can reach an agreement and a lot of people here and there do not want to see. We will win peace for future generations and that is the most valuable.
I think, maybe once an islander can be President of Argentina and the past only a bad memory.
Oh don't try and play the whole innocent card Mr Malvinense, you people don't care about the islander's and you know it, there way of life will be crushed and they will be burdened by an overbearing Argentine culture that won't do a thing for them. Any negotiation for Argentina has to end with them gaining final sovereignty and thats not going to happen.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and by the way, if Argentina, and it's people are so desperate to 'recover' the islands how many do you think will move there in droves to take up residence? Oh thats right none! Migration levels will remain as low as they always have been, thats the problem with the indoctrinated crap thats been in bedded into you Argentines' you don't have a clue of what to do if the Islands are ever given to you, the nationalistic rubbish will have lost it's purpose.
I asked Mr Think and many other Argentine commentators; I hope you realise that there is nothing your country and its people can do, you have tried every social, political and military option to “recover” the islands and all have failed and these measures that are mentioned in the article will only be added to that list of failures. I mean don't you see? There is nothing you can do to get the islands. Give up.
Oh and by the way, if Argentina, and it's people are so desperate to 'recover' the islands how many do you think will move there in droves to take up residence? Oh thats right none! Migration levels will remain as low as they always have been, thats the problem with the indoctrinated crap thats been in bedded into you Argentines' you don't have a clue of what to do if the Islands are ever given to you, the nationalistic rubbish will have lost it's purpose.
Conor: An Uruguayan friend once told me that Argentina is a “sleeping giant”
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina dominates the nuclear energy, biotechnology, is the country that produces more food per capita.
Argentina is now a cart with Rolls Royce motor.
Perhaps when the country us to improve, you will see us differently.
@133
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I doubt that! I mean you have just proved that Argentina is not a sleeping giant because you simply failed to provide an argument to my comment. Argentina is now a cart with Rolls Royce motor. Rather proves that this sleeping giant is not to bright because I would not recommend putting a jet engine in a cart.
“Perhaps when the country us to improve, you will see us differently.” Im still waiting because all I see is a country that claims something that it does not own and this thing aka the Falklands have a better quality of life, higher life expectancy, higher GDP per capita and the protection of the United Kingdom, an old giant that has been underestimated greatly in the past on several occasions and has overcome the odds.
Oh and if you are going to kid yourself by pretending Argentine is going to become some sort of superpower then at least ask yourself this; What is Argentina going to do that will get her the islands? As all other attempts have failed.
@133 The problem is that Argentina (a country with good people and great resources) is more than just a cart. But its engine (the Hitler influenced peronist system), is rusty, the valves are fecked, and theirs no fuel.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get this, the Islanders you despise are light years ahead of you despite being over 39 million less numerous.
it does not matter how big you think you are, or how big you think this sleeping giant can grow to,
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0unless you learn to grow up first, then your sleeping giant will keep on sleeping untill you you do .
#116 “Both are very good people; but scottish are more funny guys, different sense of humor...and believe me...they are the most close to an argentinian as I see in all europe-...inlcuding spaniards and italians”
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0=)
137 British_Kirchnerist
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rubbish and you know it, trying to split the foursome will not work,
And the only truthful thing rosarino has ever said about us , [the British]
Is that they are the originals,
And that we are,
1111=4.
No more no less,
For if you were truly one of a kind, thus you would know this, would you not .
.
@134 Conor: What is Argentina going to do that will get her the islands?
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dialogue, peace and diplomacy.
and@135 Pete Bog: My analogy was not good. Argentina is like a Ferrari. It lacks the most important thing a good conductor. A champion.
We always have bad drivers, crashing the car.
If we find the champion, Argentina will be much better.
but do you have a cat,
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0MEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
now thats fast ??
@139
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Dialogue, peace and diplomacy.”
As all of Argentina's methods including dialogue, peace and diplomacy have failed what else are you going to do? What will be the final measure that will see a Hong Kong style handover? I asked thee question and as always you and your colleagues don't have a clue.
@139 An honest appraisal. If Argentina had a good driver it could be a Ferrari, and concentrate on making itself a great country instead of wasting its time claiming a country it really does not have a strong historical and moral case to colonise. And do you know what? If it accepted the Islanders, just think of all the money flowing from the islands that would help maintain that Ferrari economy. Otherwise Argentina is led by bad rally drivers whop smash the diffs of their offroaders and sink deeper and deeper into the bog, scattering shit everywherere, wheelspinning, going nowhere with only a tiny piece of windscreen free of dirt to see out of.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't eat or like fish but if it makes good money for the Argentine economy, I will certainly start eating it. Most Chinese and Europeans eat it why not Argentine's.”
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you were pretending to live in Canada, you parasite. Why don't you share with us all where you can buy Argentine fish here? And no, I don't mean your sister...
@ 141Conor, Alternatives:
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0-Commonwealth with Argentina. Defense U.K.
-Model Agreement Hong Kong.
Referendum in continental Argentina and the Malvinas Islands.
Want to take the case to the International Court of Justice?
If in both places: International Court.
No, other solutions.
The solution is possible, only a few people find this situation is favorable to their policies and pockets $$$
For God! is that no one wants to see?.
@144
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“-Commonwealth with Argentina. Defense U.K. and -Model Agreement Hong Kong.” Both of these require the consent of the Falklanders and the UK and you know thats not going to happen, also HK was a different situation- as the people wanted to have a special administration with China and the territory was on a legal lease.
“Referendum in continental Argentina and the Malvinas Islands.”- How is that fair? Any decision on how someones life will be effected the most should be made by that very person in this case the islanders.
“Want to take the case to the International Court of Justice?
If in both places: International Court.
No, other solutions.
The solution is possible, only a few people find this situation is favorable to their policies and pockets $$$
For God! is that no one wants to see?.” Argentina has been invited to the ICJ several times by the UK and has declined to come.
Why no listen to a fellow Argentine like Mr Simon if you wont listen to a Brit, and I Quote; “We invaded the Islands illegally in April 1982, after that little mistake on our part all bets were off. The UN resolutions are non-binding, niether UK nor Argentina have to take the blindest notice of them, the only binding resolutions in this matter were 501 and 502 which demanded our troops to leave the Islands, and we didn't comply so we lost even the slightest right we may have had over the Islands. We now have absolutely no rights to them. Live with it.”
agreed.
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, Conor. The problem will happen to future generations.
Jul 04th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ nigelpwsmith
Jul 04th, 2012 - 05:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It's the oil which will be CFK's downfall. She cannot stop the Falkland Islanders extracting it without causing another Falklands War”
Well another war for oil I don’t think will bother anyone after all UK is involved in all of them.
@144 Malvinense 1833
Jul 04th, 2012 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hong Kong was a territory with 98% chinese of which 2/3 of the land was on lease from China. It made a lot of sense for china to get the whole place based on statistics alone. GB was able to put in place a 50 year buffer between HK democracy and chinese communism and in the last 15 years one can see that communism will bite the dust in the next 35 years. Even now china is a contradiction of communism and capitalism.
Why would anyone go to Argentina for a 'conflict zone' fishing permit when they can go to the fisheries administration on the falklands for 'conflict free' fishing? Only an idiot wanting to cause strife and peril to its fisherman would do this.
Royal navy ships are not about to open fire on any civilian vessel and all it takes is for a navy ship to cut the nets and confiscate the ship's catch and that vessel will be rendered useless for fishing. Job done.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!