MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands’ government accepts content to discuss air links and fisheries with Argentina
The Falkland Islands government announced on Thursday it is content to hold preliminary talks with Argentina on air links and fisheries cooperation as was proposed by Argentine ambassador Alicia Castro to the Foreign Office last April 23, given certain clarifications. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYour interlocutor is London not Buenos Aires.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is nothing wrong in talking; you have always been open to talks,
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But from their prospective, if they claim another victory or that their harassment and threats has born fruit.
Then you will be back to square one.
For if the fox thinks he has won, then you will never get him out of the hen house, until he gets all the chickens.
Buy hey, its just my opinion,
and your choice .
.
2- before talks start they will need to back track a lot of harrassment- that,s one of the conditions. And Arg has to talk to FIG as these are FIG control issues - not London,s. London may be at the head of the table as the “host” but it would be Arg Govt and FI Govt talking to each other.Ball is now in CFK,s court.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like in the letter to Castro the FCO stated that they will be dealing primarily with the Falklands Government with the FCO acting in a support role (as it should be).
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After snubbing the FI representatives at the C24 “We love CFK” Committee, the Argentine government have been offered a second olive branch.
I'm not really sure with CFK's attitude of late that they deserve a second bite of the cherry but you can't say the FI government is being un-reasonable.
Let's see how this goes.
if its any reflection look how she deals with domestic issues, it will be her way or no way. a non starter especially if this means if she has to acknowledge the Falklands Government.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We send the letter to UK motherland illegal occupator, the motherland sends it to their colony the facto government, the colony answers to the motherland, that sends it to the real original sovereign owner....we should remember sending the UN resolutions in another beautiful expensive envelope to London, those that Cameron didnt want to see, british are fond of protocol rules
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 03 Islander1
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are probably correct,
We both know what she is like , and how she claims everything is a victory,
You are right, they need to stop all the harassment first .
.
Argentina is fond of making up rules :P
Jun 28th, 2012 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This will not happen as RG government will refuse to talk to FIG.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is this one of those occassions when a letter arrives at the wrong addres and you write on it, “Please redirect to....” Then go to the nearest Red Post Box and post it.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, by the way, Islas Malvinas, is not a recognised Royal Mail address.
@6
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN resolutions are a result of innacurate comments the Aergentines sent to the UN in the 1960s that can be shown by researching the history in depth, not the shallow surface skim employed by Argentina.
Therefore the resolutions are invalid.
As Argentina does not follow UN resolutions, it cannot criticise the UK.
Talk cost nothing, come Christina there is nothing to be scared of, the Duke of Cambridge has gone back to wales with his conquerors uniform and scary helicopter.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Argentine government has acknowledged receipt of the letters but has not yet responded.”
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a squeak from the RGs... and the letter was sent 3 weeks ago........they just don't know what to say.....
@13
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How about. “Shit what do we do now, I know lets ask Christine.”
This is another brilliant stroke of political mastery by the Falkland Islands Government.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the Argentine government refuse to talk, it shows itself to be hipocritical liars, if they do talk they then have to acknowledge that the Falkland Islands Government and therefore the people of the Falklands exist, and therefore have the right to self-determination.
So it's a win-win situation for the Falklands and a lose-lose situation for CFK and her cronies.
What's the odds that they were just going to ignore this reply to their letter in the hope that everyone would forget about it, but now it has been made public, and they've acknowledged receipt they have been neatly backed into a corner.
Well done FIG with help from the FCO.
LEPRecon
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You would think that they might just possibly get the message by now. That the FOG are much better at the political game than them, all three members of thr FOG! but I doub't it. Embarressed by an Island of 3000 people. Sad!
The Argentinians can agree to anything they like. Then they will refuse to abide by it stating that it was made under duress or that it was 'extra constitutional' or some such shite. Or they simply won't abide it and when the FIG discontinues it's participation due to Argentinian bad faith, KFC will hold a rally proclaiming that the British won't co-operate and call for the Russians and the Chinese to nuke the UK.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or something like that at any rate.
I agree to open negotiations regarding flights, fishing, oil, etc.. With UK not with the Falklands.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Under the following conditions: a) UK recognizes that there is a sovereignty dispute. b) UK accepts that Argentina will never recognize the existence of an island government. c) The islanders never undertake not to initiate any steps to seek independence.
If you accept these conditions, talk.
The BA Herald has an interesting interpretation of the FIG response. http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/104795/malvinas-govt-formally-rejects-cfks-air-link-proposal
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess KFC told them to print that....
@17 - good points.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However by that time both the Russians and Chinese will be so fed up or Argentine corruption and unreliability that they're more likely to nuke Argentina, and save the world from their constant whinging and crying.
That is assuming CFK doesn't get lynched by her own people first.
White Paper people, White Paper. Get it into law, end of!!!!!!
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19 funny how the two letters above make no mention of turning down CFK's proposal, she really is losing the plot and as you say they will print any old crap. Well done FIG, lets she how she squirms out of this one
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Malvinas government has formally rejected the Argentine proposal”
They are now accepting that the Falkland Islands are self governing - CFK won't like that!
She really is out of her league. It is truly astounding that a Parish Council, in everything but name, is able to out perform the president of a nation of 40 million people, consistently.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0rejection??
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/06/28/increasing-hostility-from-argentina/
@18 its not for you to agree to anything...back in your box , boy!
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 well guess the staus quo will remain then, but according to the BA herald it looks like they do recognise the FALKLAND ISLANDS have a goverment. CFK couldn't run a piss up in a brewery pal, a ten year old kids forgotten more than she'll ever know
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Herald article is not correct, better to read this one:
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.penguin-news.com/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=items&id=365:falklands-responds-to-argentine-approaches-on-fishing
So where does it actually say they have rejected talks “that's right they haven't” typical rgenweener bullshit, and a MASSIVE own goal by both BA herald and Turkey neck. Standby for some body swerves that will probably include the Olympics or Diego Garcia. Good article about BOT's doing the rounds as well, stating as having a responsibility to ensure the security and good governance of the Territories, we want the Territories to be vibrant, flourishing communities that proudly retain aspects of their British identity.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Buenes Aires Lies Herald is apparently living up to it's propagandist distorted reason for existence.
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina media seem to agree that Britain rejected the proposal on flights, but could it be simple matter of somebody not reading the letters, or that there is a sneaky tactic going on of an Argentine version of “bait-and-switch”?
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0References:
Reino Unido rechazó la propuesta de vuelos con Argentina:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1486039-reino-unido-rechazo-la-propuesta-de-vuelos-con-argentina
El Reino Unido rechazó la propuesta de más vuelos a Malvinas que hizo Cristina:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1486039-reino-unido-rechazo-la-propuesta-de-vuelos-con-argentina
Last sentence says it all really I honestly think they can't fooking read..............they stated and emphasized its intention of ”strengthen communications between the Islands Falkland (Malvinas) and the continent, and willing to engage in dialogue with the Argentine Government on ways and means of achieving it”...
Jun 28th, 2012 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28 Yep we know what is correct but why is RG press printing bullshit?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because the press don't have freedom of speech despite what BK, The trash telling trolley dolly, Malvi and the rest will tell you, it's called propoganda...........a bit like the Nazis really
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems confusing, and its possible that, like me, the Argentine press is confused too.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clarín article shows awareness of the intent by Falkland Islanders not to jeopardize their LAN Chile connexion in favour of an Argentine link, but the article only seems to mention that in passing (its not bolded for one thing), while going on about the Argentine proposal being for 3 flights a week linking Buenos Aires to the Falklands.
Interesting to read Clarín reader comments, where there is some surprise that there would enough traffic to warrant three flights per week. Others point out that the flights would be heavily used by cargo, not passengers.
Why are Arg press printing bullshit? - perhaps because Arg is now in a corner - it got in there itself - and hasn,t got a clue what to do next? But whatever 40 million Argentines read - you can bet that the Falklands version and letters will be in the“in-trays” of every Foreign Minister in South America and beyond.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I imagine they would also behave this if the Islanders one day posted KFC a note saying they wanted to join the RG Reich.....
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Query.... does anyone know why it has taken 3 weeks for this news to surface?
United Kingdom: The product of centuries about occupying lands, destroying cultures and steeling whatever they find between England and North and South Poles. But they are such LORDS DOING IT. Do not be afraid my Brits that NO ONE IN THE WORLD WILL BREAK YOUR INFAME RECORD.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing more cheese that Pirates calling themselves Lords
Are you sure do not want to include your specialization in the Olympics? I see, you are afraid you end in second place after Somalia...
Seems that at least one newspaper is getting closer to the truth, in dropping the rechazó (rejected) headline and changing to pone condiciones (putting conditions), but no articles yet appear to reflect that fish conservation is the big issue, not so much flights:
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0El Reino Unido pone condiciones para aceptar los vuelos con la Argentina que ofrece el Gobierno:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1486039-reino-unido-rechazo-la-propuesta-de-vuelos-con-argentina
Ladies and Gentleman.....
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0backpedaling has begun....
additionally,harvesting of fruits from CKF foreign policy re. Malvinas has also begun
I see no back peddling.... just RG government backed into a corner....
Jun 29th, 2012 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Frank, I am sure the initial correspondence was mean to be normal quiet diplomacy - FIG has allowed the Arg 3 weeks to reply - they have not, so now it goes public - and Arg in thus in a corner.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Amusing though the spin Arg is already putting out- “the UK rejects” etc - nobody has rejected anything - and all decisions and suggestions are those from FIG and not UK!
I have a strategy to recover the islands are about 3000 Islanders, 70% are over 50 years .. These islanders are all about old age of his queen .. Young people born there looking for their future outside the islands, they leave and never return .. you have to let them die and occupy the old people when they become a ghost town..
Jun 29th, 2012 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice theory Xavierv, shame its complete nonsense but hey have fun with that idea.....
Jun 29th, 2012 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@40 - Helber - LOL how did you get to that? 2+2=47.5?
The UK as ever is just playing with the Cretina and her ridiculous government. By sending the requests onto the Falkland's government she has a choice to either acknowledge their existence or not have any discussions.
Checkmate!
IF the Argentine government were to re-establish flights to the Falklands you would have to ask Why?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 06:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a feeling that this was a publicity stunt by Castro and will fizzle out.
Argentina could certainly benefit from fish stock management.
46
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good response by FIG. Well thought out and well executed. Let's hope the FCO did their part and didn't debadge the letter. Sometimes their levels of diplomacy are lost on, shall we say, certains regions of the world.
Yup, what started out as a publicity stunt by CFK and her sicophant Castro, has completely backfired and become a spectacular own goal.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina can lie (how unusual) to its people all it wants, but the rest of the international community will be looking at how a small group of people in the Falklands have out politicked the whole Argentine government, and are now having a good laugh at them.
38 you are not first - Im really not into getting told were pirates. Britain has a history just like Argentina. One that were not proud off in regarsd to the empire, you wouldnt see many brits still wanting this to be our life now. Argentina though, compared to britain is a fuckin hell hole. Your government feeds you lies in school to tell you how the malvinas were robbed. I watched the clip on you tube of a teacher explainng how you inherited theislands from spain, but aregnitna was not declared a state till the 19th century. What is wrong with you lot? Havent you got the internet? Can you read books? Your government is so corrupt its sickening to do that to there own people, the falklands are british ... neh neh neh nehhh nehh Your country has no justified, factual claim on the islands except 'there closer to us'. I think the term thats used quite often on this page 'Pirate' is quite offensive, But then were not dealing with an EU country here, were dealing with south american transplanted population from the spanish legacy. Argentina has an arguement that spain could use, Spain could just say if argentina wants to claim the falklands why cant we reclaim argentina? Its all about maturity and yet again the history and presence of any argentine delefgation shows a lack of this.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@18 No. No. No. No. Anything else?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@38 Did you not read the requirement that all comments have to be in English? This means more than stringing a lot of English words together and hoping they make sense. As it happens, yours don't.
@40 Where's the back-pedalling, half-breed?
@43 Never mind. Although it is sad that you've started suffering from dementia at your age.
@18 XAVIERV,
Jun 29th, 2012 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Conqueror beat me to it, but l will say it anyway to make sure that your pea-sized brain gets it.
a) NO
b) NO
c) NO
d)NO. don't want to talk to idiots.
Simple, really.
The Falklanders try to do the right thing time and time again and the argentine spin doctors will look to find any kind of opportunity to castigate the whole community. It is clear though that Falklanders are truly British in these matters make the Argentine government look like a bunch of reject Muppets.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Islander1
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why are Arg press printing bullshit?
Because ARG media conglomerates like Clarin, La nacion, etc. always do that especially on economy facts, etc.
Why?
Because publishing what is true goes against their interest. Which is to erode the govt. in any possible way.
Nothing new.
Xavier- sorry but you are a bit buggered in those plans as 95% of young Islanders that leave for higher education return home afterwards with their skills.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well done FIG, quiet but firm statement of position. We are prepared to co-operate on regional issues like good neighbours, but not discuss sovereignty. Islanders would be mad to allow their air access to be controlled through Buenos Aries, and CFK must be of pretty small brain if she thought a) the Islanders would agree or; b) they were stupid enough to hand her a PR coup with such an offer.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0The withdrawal from the South Atlantic Fisheries Commission was monumentally irresponsible to future generations. Its time to get it back on track - scientifically.
Clearly coercion doesn't work, time to join the real world again.
The news as reported by the Argentine State controlled TV station simply reported that the British had rejected the Argentine offer of flights to the islands.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pirates pirates every where,
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British pirate are they there,
The Argies love to bullshit,
The world is full of prates,
We say unto they these uneducated Argies, who love and admired the British pirates,
[NAME ONE]
Name just one British pirate,
.
52 DanyBerger (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As far as I have been able to test, both Clarín and La Nación, as well as Río Negro have been pretty factual in their reporting of recent events, both in Argentina and on the international stage. This has at the same time been untrue with respect to Página12, Crónica, and the TV show 678.
This business of “Clarín miente” is absolute rubbish, typical dictatorship move to repress the oposition media.
All it shows is that this KK government is sliding towards authoritarianism faster and faster. We should follow Paraguay's example and get rid of both Kretina and Boudou and all other KK that are despoiling our poor country!!!!
The problem with any negotiated agreement with Argentina is that the Argentineans have a long history of dishonouring their promises. They just take, then don't pay back what they owe. That's why nobody will ever lend them money again. Argentineans will just tear up any treaty or agreement when it no longer suits them. Like the 1850 treaty torn up in 1941, and more recently the 1995 agreement torn up by Nestor and Co. in 2007. Not to mention the secretly planned and unprovoked military invasion of the Falkland Islands in 1982, breaking just about every international treaty they'd ever signed up to. There seems to be little point in negotiations of any kind with Argentina.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 056 briton
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sir Francis Drake
I believe there's a little stretch of water down that way that's named after his passageway.
Drake's Colon was it?
56 briton (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sir Henry Morgan, a good Welshman.
Is it just me or can anyone else see that these flights from Buenos Aires are being designed for a distinct purpose. What they will do is get them up and running, get the Falkland Islanders used to the convenience and connectivity, the regular cargo deliveries of fresh produce, so much so a degree of dependency in the flights will set in, then they will threaten to pull the plug if there is no discussion on sovereignty. It is put simply carrot and stick, the Falkland Islanders must be aware of this but I suppose talks are acceptable for now, I just hope they don't allow themselves to become over-dependent on them. Didn't something unpleasent happen in history with a Trojan Horse.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 061 Britworker (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please not that the FIG has asked Argentina to re-authorize the CHARTER flights over her airspace, it has in no way agreed to the Aerolineas Argentinas flights from BA.
FIG has also stipulated that Argentina should in no way do anything to cut the LAN flights.
The main thing that FIG is wanting is for Argentina to come back to the SAFC talks, as the present situation is damaging fish stocks both in Falkland Island watwers as well as Uruguayan waters.
@61 Britworker (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:20 pm
Inspector Morse has cracked it again.
Sorry.
Yes. I believe that is the plan. What makes me snigger though is that KFC and her munchkin men think they are being subtle and clever about it.
@62 My understanding is the offer from Argentine was their flights from Buenos Aires and the FIG are requesting that first there must be a resumption of the charter flights before this would be considered. I realise that the fisheries is a separate and overriding issue.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 064 Britworker (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I honestly don't think that FIG will agree to the AA flights, whatever other agreements they manage to come to with our government.
I believe that FIG really only wants the charter flights and the return of Argentina to the SAFC talks.
@63
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sometimes it's better to state the obvious, another analogy would be a drug dealer trying to get their potential addict hooked. I would be a hopeless diplomat, I would push launch buttons and tell people to F-off far too regularly :-)
BritWorker- we have no fear of AA flights actually happening in reality!
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0AA is a state airline- thus the Arg State would have to talk with and deal with FIG Dept of Civil Aviation etc- that means recognizing that we exist as the Govt with responsibility for Civil Aviation in and out of the Island- ie we exist as a people and a Govt! - I see a problem there for Argentina!- once you defacto accept there is a Govt and people there - then in time all the rest including UN rights etc follows!
Also any Arg goods to come top the Falklands will first of all have to have the appropriate EXPORT forms completed by the relevant Arg Govt Department. A bit difficult for them to do this without actually thus recognizing that we are a different Country!
Excellent points Islander. Argentina have demanded talks and FIG have agreed to them, it now puts Argentina is an awkward position, where they will lose face and ground with either decision (yes or no). At the moment it seems they are stalling or that they will never answer the letter (which would cause them to lose face and ground). Great political manoeuvring from FIG.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 067 Islander1 (#) and 68 M_of_FI (#),
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is no doubt that FIG has outmanouvered Kretina and the trolley dolly over this, even better than the presentation of the letter at C24.
To me, as a viewer from the Argentine side, as it were, the only really important points here ar:
1) The charter flights.
2) The South Atlantic Fisheries Commission.
If FIG can get our people to authorize #1 and start talking within #2 then that really will be progress, but my suggestion is... Don't hold your breath!!!
The headline, above, states that it is the Falklands government that requires direct clarification from Argentina, and not the UK government, which is there to help or defend the Falklanders at their behest.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@66 Britworker (#)
Jun 29th, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jun 29th, 2012 - 02:14 pm
Yes. Sorry. You are quite right.
Found this little gem for themselves as are interested:
http://www.thefifthcolumn.co.uk/the-agitator/michael-buerk-on-argentina’s-‘breathtaking-hypocrisy’/
Trouble with Argentina? Remind them of their Nazi-backing past
Jun 29th, 2012 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/falkland-islands/47714/trouble-argentina-remind-them-their-nazi-backing-past
@43 it wouldn't matter if all the people on the islands we're in thier 90s pal if you tried to step foot on the islands we would bomb the shit out of you, why because we can. Suggestion why don't we send another four typhoons down to patrol rgenweener airspace whenever flights to FALKLANDS are due they wouldn't be able to do a thing .......except cry as normal
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#55 Well that is actually true isn't it? Why is the Cameron government so afraid of sitting down to talk with Cristina?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BK are you thick or is your lust for turkey neck clouding you brain. Cameron won't sit down with the fuckwit as it is between her and the FIG how many times do you need to be told honestly you are fooking stupid I'll spell it out again SELF DETERMINATION GOT IT .... GOOD!!!
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A “fig”? Who's the idiot who decided to use a fruit name to call this ilegal British club in Argentina?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 074... The reichmistress won't want anything to do with talks because there is no propaganda value for rg government. The present situation suits her fine as its a great diversion from power cuts , strikes, gas shortages, defaulted loans, stolen companies, spurious claims, humiliation of a defeated peoples. RGs will make so many stupid demands attached to the talks that FI will have to pull out and hey Presto the propaganda machine will start again and old plastico will with crocodile tears sob to the nation and regional powerless trading block...and so it goes on
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@76FALKLANDS ISLAND GOVERMENT get it thicko FALKLAND ISLANDS not malvenos or other rgenweener claptrap. Can anyone in rgenweener afford a fig?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[59] [60] `
Jun 29th, 2012 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The facts are,
There were English pirates
There were Irish pirates
There were Scottish pirates
There were welsh pirates.
But there were NO British pirates,
After 1707 we are British,
76, listen
Ho Hum..... BA Herald finally gets it right... http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/104795/malvinas-govt-open-to-cfks-air-link-proposal-but-sets-conditions
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0falklands
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0, the Malvinas government showed its willingness to discuss ways of communication but remarked that the proposal “was not made within a context of amity and friendship,” but “against a backdrop of increasing hostility.”
CFK
Likewise, the letter remarked that the proposal made by President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner during a special session in Congress “was made not within a context of amity and friendship towards the (Malvinas) Islands people but against a backdrop of increasing hostility
one of them is wrong.
from the same page top and bottom
@59 I think you'll find that Sir Francis Drake, on occasion, acted as a privateer. Not quite the same as a pirate. Although the Spanish might not THINK so. Still, who gives a FIG for them?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@61 I would be more concerned about something more obvious. Who set up the first air links? Who built the first airstrip? That's right. The argie air force. Was there ever a plan to land an invasion force by air? Is the current proposal not for 3 return flights a week? The smallest AA aircraft seems to be the Boeing 737-700 that can carry 128 passengers. So is there demand for 384 return flights per week? Or suppose AA sends an Airbus A340-300 that can carry 290 “passengers”. And probably their kit as well.
@74 No, it isn't! I knew you couldn't read proper English. The FIG has said nothing of the sort.
@76 What “ilegal British club in Argentina”? Surely argieland wouldn't countenance anything illegal inside its country? Except theft from an overseas company. Blocking an international bridge. Police corruption. Government corruption. Presidential theft. Fortunately, the Falkland Islands aren't argie territory. And every argie will be dead before it happens!
perhaps the islanders should ask her to tea,
Jun 29th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and see what kind of reply you get.
it shows how very friendly we are .
@76 “A “fig”? Who's the idiot who decided to use a fruit name to call this ilegal British club in Argentina?”
Jun 29th, 2012 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...... etc.
Brilliant! So funny :))
You do stand-up? Where are you next appearing?
@76 Marcos,
Jun 29th, 2012 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We might have a FIG, Marcos but you have a government of Turnips.
74- Please explain to me what these topics have to do with the British Govt and why they should sit down and talk with Argentina?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All International Air Links to and from the Islands come 100% fully under the authority of the department of Civil Aviation, Falkland Islands Govt - the competent recognised authority. As used by Lan or any other airline that flies here, the same authority that every Argentine private aircraft contacts with to seek landing permission here.
All affairs of Fisheries nature in our Fisheries Zone(as accepted by the many nations who have taken licences over the years- eg Chile-China-USSR-South Korea-Japan-Taiwan etc) are fully under the operational and licensing control,revenue etc, of the Department of Natural Resources-Fisheries- of the Falkland Islands Govt.
There- does that explain that if the talks go ahead in time it will be the Arg Govt - talking directly across the table with- the Falkland Islands Govt, No doubt the meeting “chaired” by someone from the UK Govt - perhaps similar in a way to the early Northern Ireland talks where you had the British on one side- the IRA on the other and an American senator as chairperson.
None of the issues of Air links nor Fisheries are operated by the British Govt - do you follow?
85 lsolde
Jun 29th, 2012 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very funny.
Chey, do those “fig” lover people still boil penguins for oil or they just starve them to death?
Ask Islander1 he might know.
Marcos- neither as you know well- if you bother to keep up top date you will be aware that penguin population is increasing - but hell - why would you want facts to spoil a good fantasy story?
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wouldnt class myself as a “fig lover” either - dont mind the one but the other type takes taxes from me!
@87 No they stopped that a long time ago.
Jun 29th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike the uncivilised chav Argentines who currently club fur seals to death in the Antarctic, something no Malvanista has yet denied.
When it comes to bullying the British Armed forces (which CFK will eventually try through sheer desperation after all her stunts are neutralised by FIG), the RG's will get their ass well and truly kicked.
Once a peronist, aways a peronist-political sons and daughters of Adolf Hitler.
89 Pete Bog “No they stopped that a long time ago”
Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you sure?
Do you remember the ratio?
8 boiled penguins=1 gallon of oil
@Simon68
Jun 30th, 2012 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0“This business of “Clarín lies” is absolute rubbish, typical dictatorship move to repress the oposition media.”
Here an irrefutable proof!
Clarin:
Headline: “El Reino Unido rechazó la propuesta de vuelos a Malvinas que hizo Cristina”
Translation: “United Kingdom rejected the proposal of air link flights to Malvinas made by Cristina”
Body: “Los kelpers no quieren nuevos vuelos desde Buenos Aires tal como propuso la Presidenta el 1 de marzo pasado”
Translation: “The Kelpers don’t want new flights from Buenos Aires like the president (Cristina) proposed on March, 1st “
http://www.clarin.com/politica/malvinas/Reino-Unido-propuesta-Malvinas-Cristina_0_727127532.html
If anyone read the 2 letters issued by the UK Foreign Office and the FI govt. clear can realise that what Clarin is publish is a lie.
No more to talk about is I guess.
Clarin Group always lies, because is their business.
@90 Marcos,
Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0We did look at boiling penguins to get oil for our tractors but we figured that we'd get more oil if we boiled malvinistas.
Perhaps you could organise a tour or something, Marcos.
A busload of deluded malvinistas would see us right for a few weeks tractor fuel.
Thanking you in advance.
Sorry Isolde... no future in boiling down malvanistas... poor buggers are all starving... bugger all fat on them.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now if you can catch a Maximo... then you will have enough oil to see the Falklands through this winter and much of the next...
91 DanyBerger: Clarín was only one of many news sources whose earliest news stories on the Falklands and FCO letters were inaccurate. Question is how did so many Argentine news outlets get that inaccurate information, or who did the interpretation that resulted in so many wrong news stories? I noted (39 JohnN) that La Nacion had corrected their earlier story.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 091 DanyBerger (#)
Jun 30th, 2012 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guess what Dunce Burger, the news published by ALL the Argentine press was released by...
THE CASA ROSADA!!!!!
KRETINA MIENTE!!!!
john john the letter is clear you dont accept (so you reject very simple) arg flights, UNLESS arg applies first certain conditions UK puts (not conditions of Arg).
Jun 30th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets wait the answer.
96 malen:
Jun 30th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is important to support the Falkland Islands people for how they chose to structure their transportation access, and doesn't appear Falklands want to jeopardize LAN Chile flight for an Argentina alternative.
Seems reasonable not to dependent on the very country that is trying to destroy your community, don't you think?
Just as important in the Falklands letter (besides comments about Argentine harassment of vessels and denial of port access), Falklands wants fish conservation research agreements with Argentina to be re-instated - something that so far doesn't seem to have been prominent in Argentine news about the letters.
UK also put conditions for fishing talks, not to talk about sovereignty.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets wait the answer.
No sovereignty talks.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They don’t talk to human rights abusers.
And that is what CFK is.
95 Simon68
Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't waste your time with DanyBerger he's just doing it for the attention. His perants had to tie a bone around his neck when he was a child just so that the family dog would play with him.............
@ 6 malen
Jun 30th, 2012 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the [de] facto government” - colonies do not have governments of their own.
malen,
Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There will be NO TALKS about Sovereignty.
You may as well get used to that fact.
@ 15 LEPRecon
Jun 30th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If the Argentine government refuse to talk, it shows itself to be hipocritical liars, if they do talk they then have to acknowledge that the Falkland Islands Government ...”
Not quite.
The Argentine government can choose the middle road and accept the FIG as an interested party same as e.g. the oil industry or a trade union.
If they do, this may lead to improved relations, which is in the best interest of all parties - unfortunately I am not over optimistic.
BTW: The Buenos Aires Herald article has been changed.
The headline is now
“Malvinas gov't open to CFK's air link proposal but sets conditions” - the conditions being “not interferring [sic] with the weekly LAN airline flight” - it would be a dire mistake of the FIG to give up on the LAN flight.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/104795/malvinas-govt-formally-rejects-cfks-air-link-proposal
No no no Argentina will not discuss sovereignty with illegal aliens, go home.
Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Simon68
Jun 30th, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you are saying is not true no official Govt. release about what you said.
Clarin in his article makes clear that they had access to the letter from the Foreign Office.
With another self-proclaiming exclusive Clarin titled.
“Tal como anticipó Clarín.com hace poco más de 15 días, el Reino Unido le respondió a Cristina Kirchner y dijo que por ahora no”
As Clarin had anticipated 15 days ago, the United Kingdom responded to Cristina saying no.
El Gobierno kelper respondió formalmente a la carta enviada por Castro al Ministerio de Relaciones Exteriores del Reino Unido. Mike Summers, miembro de la Asamblea Legislativa en Malvinas dijo: “Dado que estas cuestiones son responsabilidad del Gobierno de las Islas Falkland, el Foreign Office solicitó el asesoramiento de la Asamblea. Hemos respondido en una carta que ha sido remitida al Gobierno de Argentina”.
The Kelper government responded formally to the letter sent by Castro to the UK foreing Office.
Mike Summers, member of the MLA in Malvinas said: Given that some of these issues are responsibility of the Falkland Islands, the Foreign Office asked advise to the Assembly.
We have responded in a letter that had been sent to the Argentine Government.
Not even Clarin citing “Casa Rosada” as the source of the information else Foreign Office and FI Govt.
So everyone with 2 drops of encephalic mass knows that Clarin and many other media groups distort the real information.
@105
Jul 01st, 2012 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Berger, after viewing some of you previous comments regarding the Falklands I just wanted to say/ask, as I said to Mr Think; I hope you realise that there is nothing your country and its people can do, you have tried every social, political and military option to “recover” the islands and all have failed and all the measures/ attempts by you your country and its leaders will only be added to that long list of failures. I mean don't you see? There is nothing you can do to get the islands. Give up.
96 Malen -0 nothing to do with the UK really - they are just the messenger apssing the lewtter on- it is the Islands Govt that is saying to ARg - “lift the charter flights ban, and make a statement of assurance that there willbe no interference with the scheduled Lan flight”. That will then get both sides back to where we were in 2003. Then Arg AND the Islands Govt can maat and talk about things like “Open Skies Policy” - so there can be flights from Argentina perhaps.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0As UK has made clear to your Ambassador- flights are controlled and decided by the Islands Govt NOT UK Govt - so you need to talk to the Islands Govt.
Understand it now?
Exactly the same for Fisheries - the 2 people at the talks would be Argentina and the Islands - talking and negotiating with each other- full stop - end of.
Understand?
@104 prat
Jul 01st, 2012 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0What do you mean “go home”.
Where do you think all the islanders are? Down the pub?.........................
@104 - Pirat-hunter
Jul 01st, 2012 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that 98.4% of the Argentine population are non indigenous people, so why don't you go home and give the land back to it true owners, the native South Americans?
The Falkland Islanders are home, and they didn't have to massacre any native people's to do it.
You must be very proud of you colonial history. First the Spanish steal the land and murder the natives, then the colonists declare Indpendence from Spain, and then they murder the natives and steal even more land in the name of freedom. And instead of freeing all those pesky African slaves, you slaughtered them along side the natives. Bad show.
And in 1832 you tried to steal some British land and failed. Not because of the British, but because your military penal colony mutinied, murdered their own commander in front of his family. The big joke is that this is what you base your sovereignty claim on: a FAILED penal colony that was in situ less than 3 months! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Then in 1982 you tried to steal British land again, and this time we showed up and gave you all a good bitch slap.
Face it, unless you're killing poorly armed natives and slaves or throwing civilians from planes, your military is useless. Lost in 1833 (own goal), lost in 1982 (pathetic defence against a smaller force that had to travel 8,000 miles), and in 2012 (pathetic and embarrassing, and humiliating yourselves on the world stage by BEGGING someone stronger than Argentina to fight on your behalf). Argentina is showing itself to be a loser on the world stage - not because you lost a war, but because you refuse to accept that you lost this war, and because you refuse to accept that the people on the Falkland Islands have rights and are doing fine all by themselves.
Argentine governemnt = embarrassment, humiliation, liars, thieves, and thick.
I mean, fancy a national government being out politicked by a small Overseas Territory's government. No wonder the world is laughing at you.
@109LEPRecon,
Jul 01st, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop it already. You're making me laugh!
My sides are aching!
So very true though.
God, how it must grate on their nerves everytime we tell them how useless they are.
What a shower of incompetent imbeciles.
@110 - Isolde
Jul 01st, 2012 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm here all week...try the veal! ;0)
#108 clearly they are not Home because they claim to be british and Islas Malvinas is in Argentina, fakland island company's a British company and they belong to UK with the slaves they brought and everything, we Argentine's let them live there without problems for a long time but thieves are always abusive and want more from their victims. For this reason british illegal aliens are not welcome in Argentine anymore. Go home to UK illegal aliens are not welcome in America even if they are white.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@112 - Pirat-hunter
Jul 01st, 2012 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your geography is pretty bad. The 'Islas Malvinas' might be in Argentina, but the Falkland Islands are 300 miles from the coast of Argentina in the South Atlantic, and actually 4 miles closer to Chile than to Argentina.
Since there is no such thing as the 'Islas Mavinas' except in your imagination, you can go swivel.
By the way, PH, aren't you embarrassed that your government is so monumentally weak that they have resorted to begging other countries. How humiliating.
Although I understand that you Argentines are getting used to being humiliated.
By the way your last statement smells of desperation. The smell if desperation must be thick abd cloying in Argentina these days. Is it cold, PH, are there blackouts? Maybe La Campora are no longer bringing you food parcels, as they have run out of people to steal money from.
Are the people rising up against your government, which continues to lie, cheat and steal? When the revolution comes, PH, will you be defending Cristina or lynching her? Enquiring minds want to know.
For more than 180 years the Falkland Islanders have lived on the Falkland Islands and have remained British. In 180 years time the Falkland Islanders will still be living on the Falkland Islands and British and Argentina will still be crying. :0)
#113 Coming from a british illegal alien is the same as hearing it from any other undocumented worker. Get a life, I don't think there is a country fakland island but a British company like Coka Cola, you get it ??
Jul 01st, 2012 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0114 ... That doesn't make sense check google translate. Talking rubbish as per usual. troll training must be lacking funds, even duny burger makes more sense.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0British company like Coka Cola, you get it ??
Jul 01st, 2012 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0we wisah, thank you,
but i dont think the American owners would like you giving their company away .
@114 - PH
Jul 01st, 2012 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like coca cola, especially Diet Coke.
Poor Pirat-hunter, no job, no money, no pride, no future - no wonder you're angry, but your problems are all the fault of your inept and corrupt government not the 3,000 people whose families have lived on the Falklands longer than Argentina has existed as a country.
All Argentina's problems are self-inflicted, and even if you gained sovereignty of the Falklands tomorrow, those problems will still remain and get worse. Why? Because you keep electing corrupt governments who spend most of their time lining their pockets instead of looking after Argentina. Corrupt governments who use the Falklands to distract ignorant people (such as yourself) from the real truth.
What's that smell in the air around Buenos Aires? Bullsh!t and Desperation! LOL
The old and the new,
Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0next to each other .
enjoy .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2152676/HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-Its-taller-Nelsons-Column-generates-energy-power-5-500-homes--does-Britain-really-need-super-sized-3-5bn-aircraft-carrier.html
Malen- still waiting for your reply? Or are you like so many from your side - when faced with facts and reality- run away!
Jul 01st, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be a great news, if both governments agree finally with a conection between the islands, and all the rest of argentina, united by aerolineas argentinas. The proposal made the government from the islands, respecting the prohibition to fly along the argentine space by the charters flies that travel to the islands, is not wrong, we will see what happens finally.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand, unfortunatelly, the politic miopy of the lawmakers from the islands, and the british government won't let them recognize that as long as they insist on rejecting the discusions about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, we will continue having problems in the future. However, they will continue blaming argentina only, and distorting the resolutions from the u. n.
There is something, you all will have to understand, or you'll keep on making the stupid and ignorant comments that some of you do everyday. Allthough both countries decide to resume the negotiations, in order to find a peaceful solution for this conflict, if the islanders want to remain under british sovereignty, argentina won't be able to force them to be only under argentine sovereignty, because that's not what the u. n ask, beyond what our constitution says about the pretentions of our country regarding our claim. Beside, unfortunatelly, you dont realise about the doble standart that you use when you criticise our constitution, at the same that you say that for arg. there is just one outcome, you have always manifested that you are disposed to dicuss about different issues with arg., but not about the sovereignty, and claim for the application of the right to self determination, which has never been applied for this cause, like it was for others colonial situations, so, for you, there is just one outcome too.
It's not imposible to find a fair solution for both, let me tell you that if you dont have enough intellectual honesty, you can't discuss about politic, both countries aren't acting correctly, not only arg.
@12o You guys have no right to even call yourselves a democracy, since you are increasing military ties with Iran, Syria, Cuba and China. Soon the whole West (the most important political and economic people) will hate you that much, that we'll just use your country as a testing ground for nuclear weapons and mutagens. It would make no difference to your country anyway, since it's a s**thole beyond repair. Lastly, Argentina will never get the Falklands since we are there. No-one cares about your opinion apart from a bunch of poor, retarded and dictating leaders, whose people even disagree with them.
Jul 01st, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0120 axel arg (#)
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0The FIG has no real reason to talk to our Gevernment, except on the subject of the South Atlantic Fisheries Commission.
The reason is that WE are the ones who have a problem, not the FIG, WE believe that the Islands belong to us, the FIG know that the Islands belong to them, so what is there to talk to us about?
It would be beneficial to both countries if we BOTH managed our fish stocks in a reasonable way, but at the moment the FIG is doing a good job of managing their's so I don't suppose its very important for them to talk to us.
The solution to the soveriegnty thing is for us to admit that we have no claim and let the Falkland Islanders get on with their lives and we do the same.
BTW Axel, did you know that our GDP per capita is US$17.413 and the Falklands is US$55.400. Our inflation is now between 25 and 35% and their's is about 2%. If I had the choice I know where I would prefer to live, what about you?
@Simon68
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 05:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0A PIME in Argentina produce more GDP than the FI and if you make GDP per capita on one of these companies will give 150K or may be more.
What is your point by making these statements?
“If I had the choice I know where I would prefer to live”
You have the choice is called “LAN Chile” who is stopping you?
Someone against Simon to move to FI?
BTW have you planned what to do there for living?
Or do you think to get a “Plan descansar” from FI govt.?
@12Axel,
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0How many times do you have to be told, Axel?
There will be NO TALKS ON SOVEREIGNTY.
It just isn't ever going to happen.
Just build a bridge & get over it.
Some people.............
@120
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please provide a link where it states beyond all doubt, that the UN do not recognise self-determination for the Falkland Islands according to the UN charter which is the basis of all UN principles.
Why even give the thought of discussing air links and fisheries with the Argies. They dont even accept you as a goverment, peoples of the falklands etc. Your asking for trouble.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0@126 - Jay
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's the point.
By offering talks the Falkland Islands Government have neatly backed the Argentine Government into a corner. If the Argentine government refuse to talk they show themselves to be liars and hipocrites, if they do talk to the FIG then they acknowlege them as the legitimate authority over the Falklands and all their sovereignty claims will be for nothing.
Once again, well done Falkland Islands Government for out politicking the Argentine Government so easily.
#120 You either deliberately or unwittingly fail to understand the concept of self determination.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exercising the right to self determination gives the Falkland Islanders the right to choose their political affiliation. Because of the agressive stupidity of Argentina for the last 3 decades there is only likely to be one outcome to any exercise of that right - a wish to retain our British sovereignty.
However future generations may take a different view, but that would rely on Argentina becoming a decent neighbour and a first world country with first world attitudes. There is a long way to go, so the sooner the public at large get rid of the Loony CFK the sooner your country will progress, and ours will begin to take you more seriously.
Until then, sit back and relax, and watch us continue to grow our economy and look after our people in the way it should be done.
[ 120]
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don’t you stop all the bullying, threats , blockading , abuse , intimidation , abhorrent lies, FIRST ,
Then come back and talk abt a compromise.
SIMON68. BRITON. PETE BOG. GALlamosa.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect if some of you loves being the lawyers of the islanders, but there is something which is much more important than our opinions, i mean the legal aspects of this conflict. Like us or not, the u. n has never applied the right to self determination for this cause, like it did for others colonial situations, if you dont believe me, search on line, the website of the united nations, and you'll read all the resolutions where self determination is applied to others colonial situations, but there is not not even one reference respecting the application of that right to this cause. On the other hand, this dispute has always been considered like a special colonial situation by the decolonization committee, where the case is presented every year, and calls both nations to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution. I wont express again what would happen in case that the u. k decides to resume the negotiations with arg., and if the islanders manifest their wish of remaining under british government. The biggest problem that some of you have in order to understand this complicated situation, is your total lack of intellectual honesty. I dont deny that our government commited serious mistakes before and after 1982, in fact, allthough i support many of the decisions that c. f. k took regarding this dispute, i have always criticised also the fact that our government doesn't accept to include the government from the islands to discuss about the sovereignty, which is the main problem, there is a contradiction in c. f. k's actions, if she says that the islands are argentine, it means that the islanders are our compatriots, so, they must be included in the negotiations for the sovereignty.
However none of you has never accepted that your side is not acting correctly either, you just blame argentina, and buy so easily the too partial information which is given by your cameron and the lawmakers from the islands.
130 ... The Un have never said self determination doesn't apply to the Falklands! Show me where it says that it doesnt apply????????
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel:
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We invaded the Islands illegally in April 1982, after that little mistake on our part all bets were off.
The UN resolutions are non-binding, niether UK nor Argentina have to take the blindest notice of them, the only binding resolutions in this matter were 501 and 502 which demanded our troops to leave the Islands, and we didn't comply so we lost even the slightest right we may have had over the Islands. We now have absolutely no rights to them. Live with it.
#130 We all know what the resolutions say, we have read them. Not one of them says that the right to self determination does not apply to the Falkland Islands. All resolutions of the UN must comply with the Charter, which gives that right to all peoples. The fact that some resolutions of a subsidiary committee (or even of the GA itself) do not explicitly mention that right does not mean that it does not apply.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clinging on to some desparate hope that the UN and the international community at large will deny such a basic human right is to ignore the obligation on all signatories to the UN Charter to respect and adhere to its principles.
Self determination applies and will ultimately be the determining factor in how the Islands develop. The sooner the Argentine Government and people wake up from their decades of imperialist expansionist thinking and join the modern world the sooner we can all live in peace - who knows, one day we might even get on with each other.
130 axel arg
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again, Argentina is right and the brits are wrong, no matter how you wrap this up,
You are ones that need to listen,
Listen , listen ,
The Falkland islanders freely choose to remain British at this moment in time, and if in the future they wish independence, this is there choice,
Not yours
Not argentines
Not CFKS
Not the C24
Not the UN.
Do you understand this?
It is there choice,
Except this, then , tell us how democratic you are, just take ,all the paper out .
………
.
axel- CFK herself said in the UN- we just want to sit and talk and not necessarily about sovereignty-
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Falkland Islands Govt is saying - yes - we could sit and talk - but naturally your side has to take some of the agression out first which you put in- for example , by the flags ban, overflights ban and blackmail pressure on shipping lines etc.
What is the problem?
And although this point has been made again and again, the Argentines keep wheelspinning in a bog of their own making , smashing their diffs and chucking out shit everywhere, covering the winscreens so that only slit vision is formed by the overworked wiper blades. They don't carry bumperjacks or planking or winch to another Rover to remove themselves from the bog. Their Rover actually gets nowhere by their aggressive state that ignores the islanders, while their economy looses money it could be earning from the Islands if it had the stomach to cooperate with them. It prefers to be aggressive and bully the Islanders , and lose more and more and more income that could be theirs.
Jul 02nd, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So it sinks deeper and deeper and deeper, while under the delusion that it is racing across hard camp at 50 mph.
Wrong again, Axel.
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 08:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination is for all.
We do not want to be part of Argentina & we are not going to be.
You have no rights here & there will be no “negotiations”.
Can't make it any clearer than that.
SIMON68. PETEBOG. ISLANDER1. GALlamosa.
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunatelly, this is evident that you have the same intellectual miopy than your cameron and your lawmakers from the islands, that's why you support their mediocre analysis, and blame only argentina. I wont express again what i think about c. f. k's actions, but there is something that you will have to understand once and for all some day, or you'll continue making the ignorant comments that you often do.
Firstly, for all those who love signalizing the invasion of 1982, and the militar defeat, like the end of the dispute, they should know that after those terrible and criminal events, the u. n has always continued calling both nations to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution, beside, those ignorants should know also that resolution 502 wasn't respected by none of the two countries, not only by argentina.
After having investigated for more than two years about the historic and legal aspects of this conflict, i think that the resolutions from committe should be more specific, they should affirm if self determination is applicable or not for this cause, otherwise, they will continue being open to different interpertations, which is not good. All the resolutions that were expressed for this dispute, neather invoked the right to self determination for this cause, nor said that it's not applicable, all the resolution have called only the two parts of the conflict to resume the negotiations and find a peaceful solution, no more. For all these reasons i think that the resolutions should be more specific.
On the other hand, the resolutions were made to be respected, not to be distorted, i won't say again what would happen in case that the u. k decided to resume the negotiations with arg., and if the islanders manifest that they want to remain under british government. We all know that the sovereignty is the main propblem, if you continue blaming only arg., that shows how miopic you are.
138 axel arg (#)
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't “blame” Argentina, it is not a case of blame, it is a case of Argentina making a claim that has no foundation, and consequently applying tactics that are basically illegitemate and hostile to the people living on the islands.
If we had some sort of legitemate claim pre-1982 we have now lost it by the simple expedient of causing deaths by way of an illegal invasion.
We lost our chance. We must accept that and live with it.
@138 -Axel
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You spent 2 years investigating did you? Well you didn't learn very much.
By invading the Falklands in 1982 Argentina invalidated ALL UN General Assembly resolutions. This means that Britain is under no obligation to talk to Argentina about the Falklands.
UN Security Council resolution 502:
Deeply disturbed at the reports of an invasion on 2 April 1982 by armed forces of Argentina. Determining that there exists a breach of the peace in the region of the Falkland Islands:-
1. Demands an IIMEDIATE cessation of hostilities.
2. Demands and IMMEDIATE withdrawal of all Argentine forces from the Falkland Islands.
3. Calls on the Governments of Argentina and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to seek a diplomatic solution to their differences and to respect fully the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
Now before the invasion the UK was is negotiation with Argentina, when your governemnt decided to invade. The UK Government tried to stop the Invasion through diplomatic means.
The UK Government stated it would comply with resolution 502, but Argentina refused to remove their troops, thus breaking the resolution (see part 2). So the UK couldn't follow it until Argentina had met all the parts if the resolution.
Axel. Argentina was the aggressor, Argentina refused to settle the dispute through negotiation and diplomacy. It was Argentina that terrorised, harassed, imprisoned and threatened the people of the Falklands, so why do you find it do hard to understand that they want nothing to do with you?
I also direct you to the last paragraph:
“seek a diplomatic solution to their differences and to respect fully the purposes and PRINCIPLES of the Charter of the United Nations.”
In other words Article 1: the right to all people's to self-determination.
That took me 5 mins to research and write. So that's 2 years of your life wasted isn't it?
138... So no evidence that self determination doesn't apply... ???? Thought so , just move onto another topic if your lies get proved wrong. The teach trolls that at maximos troll school, change the subject, spin. Sad
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0138
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you have been found out, havent you,
so now you will go, and appear on another blogg,
taking with you the
[book, articles of a liar] how to lie,
next time perhaps .
@138 axel arg
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you link me a case where self-determination is applicable when there is a sovereignty dispute and the place in question is on the decolonization list?
The UN has never stated that the right to self determination doesn't apply to the Falklands. axel rose said they had , he lied as do all Trolls on this site.
Jul 03rd, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@120 There will be NO negotiations about sovereignty!
Jul 04th, 2012 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0@130 The right to self-determination is in the United Nations Charter. Why don't you read it? WE're all happy with the way things are. So why don't you take all your NON-BINDING UN resolutions and cut them into suitable sized sheets of paper?
@138 It's you that's myopic. A peaceful solution is easy to find. SHUT UP AND GO AWAY!! Two years of your miserable existence WASTED!!!
Axel, the other day, one of your myopic compatriots started waffling on about argieland's title to the Islands. I'll make you the same offer I made to it. Produce the title deeds. Not copies from the archives that peron created in the 50s and 60s. Not whinging letters. Not pathetic diaries. Actual title deeds that can be subjected to proper forensic examination to determine when the paper was made and when the ink was produced. The truth is that you have NOTHING!! During your “research”, you should have pondered the fact that, when making its initial illegitimate “claim”, the UP “government” sent a pirate!! Your “research” paper may impress all the kiddies in your kindergarten, it doesn't impress US. Put it with the UN resolutions you love to quote and cut it into similar sized pieces!!!
@axel arg
Jul 04th, 2012 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your country can't come up with an indisputable sole claim to the islands. Hermes 1967 withdrew from the last debat we had on this stating that we were biased and hypocritical. He was defeated by his own arguments - that if the sole claim we had was to the location of Port Egmont, then yours is confined to the location of Port Soledad.
In addition you can't prove a soveriegnty transfer from Spain to the UP and then Argentina that we can't dispute.
You can't refute the fact we had a claim in 1833 and that Vernet ought permission from HMG to establish a colony and it's protection if we re-established a prescence, or that he was initially an independent operator.
The best you can do is show a diputed claim in 1833. I would argue, and so would my country, that yours is now dead - killed by 180 years of peaceful settlement by the Falklanders.
In addition, any wish we had to negotiate with you was destroyed by the 1982 war. Being as we were on the verge of selling the islanders out at the time, the invasion must rate as the stupidest and most counter-productive piece of land grabbing in recent history. The ongoing campaign by Argentina against the Falklands merely reinforce the view I have (and many other Brits) that your country is an untrustworthy and unreliable partner, incapable of sticking to any agreements made.
I think HMG does'nt believe it would get any kind of agreement out of your govt ( short of total and unconditional capitulation, followed by the subsequent Argentine occuptaion) that your lot would'nt tear up a few months or years later, putting us all back at square one.
Why should we bother in that case?
No negotiation on sovereignty.
SIMON68. SHB. STEVE_32_UK. LEPRECON.
Jul 04th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand that the war has always been the best excuse for you, in order to reject the negotiations, but your hipocresy and intellectual miopy won't let you see that you are not acting correctly either.
Firstly, resolution 502 wasn't complied by none of the two nations, argentina didn't retire it's troops, and the u. k started a warrior strategy in order to remove argentina from the islands. If your so loved thatcher wanted to recover the islands for the u. k., and protect the islanders from a criminal regimen, she should have sent a garrison to the islands, in order to protect the population, and keep it with the passage of time, in order to avoid any violation to the human rights of the islanders, but that didn't implicate a war, when she ordered to sink the belgrano, which was out of the exclution zone, she showed a total rejection to a peaceful solution, beside, she could have accepted the peruvian proposals of peace, but she didn't. Thatcher knew that only a militar victory would give her the chance to boost her miserable government. The criminal regimen that roled argentina in that time used this cause too, but it lost. Anyway i know that your hipocresy won't let you recognize these facts.
Regarding the resolutions, i know that you love saying that they are not-binding, but there is something that you will have to understand some day, i mean the fact that the solution to this conflict, can't depend only on the wishes of just one part, specially if the case has always been considered like a special colonial situation, and if the right to self determination was never invoked for this cause, like it was for others colonial situations, anyway you already know what i think about how the resolutions should be. Respecting the history, in my investigation, which is based on the academic knowledge of argentine and british professors of int. right, i have the fundaments of the rights of both parts before 1833.
147 ... Lies , and more lies ... Tell me where the Un has said self determination doesn't apply to falklands
Jul 04th, 2012 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Firstly, resolution 502 wasn't complied by none of the two nations, argentina didn't retire it's troops, and the u. k started a warrior strategy in order to remove argentina from the islands.” Really are you sure about that? When that resolution was initiated the Royal Navy was still at Portsmouth, Moron!
Jul 04th, 2012 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If your so loved thatcher wanted to recover the islands for the u. k., and protect the islanders from a criminal regimen, she should have sent a garrison to the islands, in order to protect the population, and keep it with the passage of time, in order to avoid any violation to the human rights of the islanders,”
---There were no British forces on the islands other then a 30 man+ of Royal Marine/Navy personnel as Argentina was not considered a threat and it was way to expensive to commit a large force to islands that weren't under threat until the war started!
“ut that didn't implicate a war, when she ordered to sink the belgrano, which was out of the exclution zone, she showed a total rejection to a peaceful solution, beside, she could have accepted the peruvian proposals of peace, but she didn't. Thatcher knew that only a militar victory would give her the chance to boost her miserable government.” The Belgrano was heading back into the zone and was moving into a pincer position on our forces, The Ships captain admits to that and said that the sinking was totally legal. The plan was that the two accompanying Destroyers would pick up the crew without incident, but they fled running for their lives. Oh and the Peruvian peace process was ignored by Argentina first, and as a result the war continued-you ignored all the different peace plans not us. Oh and no British government no matter how unpopular would abandon 2000 of its own citizens to a murdering dictatorship that killed 30,000 of its own people.
As for the rest of what you say were is your evidence that you yourself have been asked to provide but never do? Oh thats right you cant because you lie.
@147 - Axel
Jul 04th, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As opposed to Argentina's 'peaceful' ways and history.
1. There was a token military force - 1 Ship (HMS Endurance) and 40 RMs (on 2 April 82 there were 70 plus RM as it was their handover period).
2. A murderous regime had invaded the Falkland Islands and had put the lives of the Islanders at risk. Remember Axel, this was the same military that murdered 30,000 Argentine citizens.
3. The British Government tried every diplomatic approach to solve the dispute, but Argentina's government REFUSED to listen. They even had the RN Task Force sail in circles for days while they tried diplomacy.
4. You truly believe that Margaret Thatcher staked her political career on a war (that if she lost would have seen her out of power) which every military textbook and EXPERT in the WORLD said was unwinable by the British because of:
a. the distance involved
b. horrendously long supply lines
c. no land base from which to work
d. Argentina had a larger military force that was dug in
e. Argentina had more modern planes and missiles than Britain
5. She rejected the Peruvian proposal as it was ridiculous and still left the Islanders at the mercy of the military and Argentina still REFUSED to remove their troops and talk.
6. The Belgrano was involved in a pincer movement that would have trapped the RN carrier group so had to be removed. It was a legitimate target; and Argentina had by invading the Falklands, declared war on Britain.
7. The 1833 explusion if the colonists and the Spanish inheritance myths have been fairly well debunked by everyone Axel, you really are getting desperate now, aren't you?
8. The UN has never said ANYWHERE that the Falklanders don't have the right to self-determination, and if they ever did it would spell the end of the UN, as it would have invalidated itself.
So, Axel, pathetic attempt, filled as usual with lies, distortions and your opinions, but with no shred of evidence. Stop embarrassing yourself like this.
Mr LEPRecon, Maybe Axels use of Google Translator means that he never understands the counter argument's that people like you and I put forward?
Jul 04th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@151 - Conor
Jul 04th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's not Google translate, just that his brain can't cope with actual facts. :0)
149 ... Yet more lies from the troll...what evidence do you want..the correct history of the Falklands we have provided it..but whenever it is quoted the Rgs never argue the points or even dispute them, they just leave the debate..that says to me that they don't have an argument, know RG propaganda version of history is a lie, and some are Le Campora kircher youth trolls who like you protected and gave safe haven are only following orders!!!!!
Jul 04th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you can all see and now witness the sad demise?
Jul 04th, 2012 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of the argie failed bloggers to convince anyone anymore?
Less and less, fewer and fewer, come up with anything worth arguing about,
That have totally and utterly failed against the British bloggers on here,
Brits, give your selves a Great British, pat on the back.
You deserve it.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
And you argie bloggers,
Bye bye .
.
@147 I have already suggested that you read the United Nations Charter. Why don't you do that? You will find that United Nations Security Council resolutions are BINDING on all members. Let's postulate a situation. UNSCR was adopted on 3 April 1982. The Belgrano didn't leave Ushuaia until 26 April 1982. Three weeks and you argies were opting for war. By the way, the Belgrano wasn't outside the exclusion zone. As has recently been revealed. It was INSIDE the exclusion zone and heading for a rendezvous also within the exclusion zone. See how many lies you argies get told! Think about this. An expedition to find the wreck of the Belgrano where you argies say it was sunk couldn't find it. Wonder why that might be? Because it was miles away. Heading to take action against the British Task Force. In any event, you should note that the argie government had already been informed, via the Swiss Embassy, that
Jul 04th, 2012 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response. All Argentine aircraft, including civil aircraft engaged in surveillance of these British forces, will be regarded as hostile and are liable to be dealt with accordingly.
You argies had a month to back off. YOU chose not to. The war was YOUR responsibility. Everything Britain did was 100% legal.
CONOR. LEPRECON. CONQUEROR. CLOHO.
Jul 04th, 2012 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dont worry guys, i already knew that you were not going to recognize that your side didn't act correctly either.
If you think that only our side omits information before the press and before the decolonization committe, regarding the historic and the legal aspects of this cause, that shows the mediocre thought that you have, you think you are always right, and dont want to recognize that your side committed mistakes too, and continues acting uncorrectly.
I know that the conflict of 1982 started because of the desperation of a criminal regimen which thought that the occupation of the malvinas wasn't going to have serious consecuences, the junta wasn't only genocide, it was ignorant too. The junta thought the the u. k would never do a war for the islands, beside, it didn't want a war with the u. k either, what it wanted to achieve with the occupation of 1982, was to force the u. k to negotiate a solution with it respecting the sovereignty of the islands. One the conditions of resolution 502, was that both nations had to solve their problems peacefully, lets' sopose that the sinking of the belgrano was legal, dont you think it was unnecesary?, if thatcher wanted to protect the islanders, and recover the islands for the u. k, she could have achieved without any war, i won't repeat again what i said in my last comment. Only miopyc people like you wound't recognize that when thatcher ordered to sink the belgrano, what she wanted to show is the rejection to any peaceful solution.
Regarding the resolutions from the decolonization committe, this question will finish the day that the resolutions start to be more speciffc, they should affirm if self determination is applicable or not for this case, otherwise, they will continue being open to different interpretations, which is not good. Respecting my investigation, i can send it to you whenever by i mail, i can give you my i mail adress and after you send me an i mail too.
156 axel arg
Jul 04th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets' suppose that the sinking of the began was legal
, don’t you think it was unnecessary
Briton .
[lets presume the sinking of all the royal navy ships, and those poor troops caught out in the open was legal,
DON’T YOU THINK, [THAT] WAS UNNECESSARY?
.
@axel arg
Jul 05th, 2012 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop stating “you are myopic and hypocritical and you are wrong”. You have used NO arguments to back up Argentinas claim to the Falklands and have not addressed any of the issues I stated above.
I would suggest that this is the case because you know that Argentina's cause in the Falklands is based omn shakey and easy to dispute assumptions.
If you think otherwise -use some logical arguments to state your case.
I can tell you are clutching at straws when you started on aboiut the Belgrano. You keep on stating that you were against the occupation then write that we should'nt have resisted your aggression in 1982!
Rriiigghhtt..... So you were just going to walk away then...............
The Belgrano was an enemy warship and a valid target, your govt new it, so dif her captain. Thats why we sent her to the bottom. It was totally necessary to protect the lives of our servicemen.
Your lot were'nt going to move out peacefully and if we had waited for a few weeks or months - you would have implemented your plan to ethnically cleanse the islands - the Junta was going to deport the Falklanders en masse. Go look that up. War was our only option and I am glad we won......
How are we acting incorrectly? Tell us. All we are doing is looking after our own people. A people your country treats with utter comtempt.
@156 - Axel
Jul 05th, 2012 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0In 1982 the military junta invaded the Falklands because they knew it would be supported by the Argentine people, otherwise they wouldn't have done it, would they? I remember all those thousands upon thousands of people celebrating in the Plaza de Mayo and elsewhere, praising the Junta calling them hero's. So the Junta thought the British wouldn't fight back, I accept that as a true statement.
But by invading the Falklands, Argentina DECLARED war on Britain, and under Article 51 of the UN charter had the RIGHT to defend our territory and people against an aggressive armed invasion force.
The sinking of the Belgrano was a legal act, within the Laws of Armed Conflict, and it's no use crying about it now. Don't forget that your brave navy ran back to port and stayed there for the duration of the war, so not only was it a legal act, but a very smart tactical one by the British. In comparison, the British lost 5 (possibly more) ships, but stayed and fought through.
If Argentina didn't want to lose the lives of their soldiers, sailors and airmen, it shouldn't have invaded, and your government had WEEKS to abide by the UNSC resolution but refused.
The British couldn't negotiate with Argentina whilst they had troops on the Islands, because it would be similar to trying to negotiate with someone who is holding a gun to your head.
All the lives lost can be firmly laid at the feet of the Argentine government, who gambled on a illegal invasion to boost popularity, gambled that the British wouldn't react, gambled that the Task Force would turn back and gambled that the retaking the Falklands was impossible.
They gambled and they LOST. Get over it, Axel. You LOST any rights to the Islands when you invaded, you LOST any chance if the Islanders willingly joining Argentina, and you LOST any respect Argentina had in South America by your military's poor showing in the war. All Argentina can do these days is cry othe international stage. Pathetic.
The submarine should have sunk the two destroyers with the Belgrano & really finished the job.
Jul 05th, 2012 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably couldn't catch the blighters.
l belive they shot through in a great hurry!
So Axel, what did your weeks and months of research discover about the Treaty of Settlement in 1849 in which Argentina - then in existance - relinquished all claim to the Falkland Islands.
Jul 05th, 2012 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think you are free to just ignore this because it is inconvenient ?
156 axel arg
Jul 05th, 2012 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lets' suppose that the sinking of the began was legal
,[ sorry] of course i meant BELGRANO ]
but you know that, did you not,
please axel, support the british, back us up,
change the subject,
indipendence for patagonia, perhaps .
@156 I don't believe your previous assertions that you are a teacher. Because you're THICK. Ever heard of “status quo ante bellum”? YOU, argieland, were REQUIRED to return to the situation that existed before the start of YOUR undeclared war. YOU are a criminal country. In fact, if you try some REAL research, when you would find that Britain continued to offer ceasefire terms until 1 June 1982.
Jul 05th, 2012 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A couple of little “extracts”:
”The Belgrano was sunk outside the 200-nautical-mile (370 km) total exclusion zone around the Falklands. Exclusion zones are historically declared for the benefit of neutral vessels; during war, under international law, the heading and location of a belligerent naval vessel has no bearing on its status. In addition, the captain of the Belgrano, Héctor Bonzo, has testified that the attack was legitimate (as did the Argentine government in 1994).“
”The sinking occurred 14 hours after President of Peru Fernando Belaúnde proposed a comprehensive peace plan and called for regional unity, although Thatcher and diplomats in London did not see this document until after the sinking of the Belgrano. Diplomatic efforts to that point had failed completely. After the sinking, Argentina rejected the plan but the UK indicated its acceptance on 5 May.“
”Argentine Rear Admiral Allara, who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of, said “After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano”.
The modified rules of engagement permitted the engagement of Belgrano outside the exclusion zone before the sinking.“
See? You're just talking desperate BS.
READ the UN Charter. It ”mentions“ self-determination”. No “committee” can override it. Regarding your “investigation”, try this: http://falklandshistory.org/sites/default/files/false-falklands-history.pdf
156 axel arg (#)
Jul 05th, 2012 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel, in your months of research did you find Costa Menedez's letter to Alexander Haig where he told Haig that one of the conditions for stopping the fighting was: “the total expulsion of the population of the islands...”?
Did it also find the quote from Captain Héctor Bonzo in which he said that ARA Belgrano was taking part in a pincer attack on the British Task Force?
Did you also find the statement by Admiral Enrique Molina Pico, head of the Argentine Navy in the 1990s, in a letter to La Nación, published in the 2 May 2005 edition, that the Belgrano was part of an operation that posed a real threat to the British task force, that it was holding off for tactical reasons, and that being outside of the exclusion zone was unimportant as it was a warship on tactical mission. This was the Argentine Navy's official position?
56 briton
Jul 05th, 2012 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We say unto they these uneducated Argies, who love and admired the British pirates,
[NAME ONE]
Name just one British pirate,
this late comer will pick the glove...
Those who engage in acts of piracy,
are called pirates, I'm afraid.
You tried and fired a roach approach
projecting your views
of what you want or would like to see
to understand
a question of differing keys
alternate meanings
some pickled, some newly half-baked.
You can as well call pirates, explorers,
such as John Hawkins was,
or Francis Drake
(two 'Sirs' by the way)
brilliant mariners, the best in the world
when piracy was on its Golden Age
and Elizabeth reigned.
And we musn't forget the others
that made the seas a hell, no less,
humbling both Spaniards and French, say,
Morgan, Calico Jack, Blackbeard,
Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny and Black Bart.
So Briton, here's your list
Now tell me, if you can find your guts
why you resent the 'pirate' name
given by us to your whole race?
With due respect
Argie-Salvador
a poetry mate.
Argie-Salvador
Jul 05th, 2012 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Close but no cigar,
all those that you have so brilliantly names,
1, Francis Drake born 1540/3 devon England
2, john Hawkins, 1532 plymouth England
3, henry Morgan was born in Wales in 1635
4, Edward Teach (c. 1680 –), better known as Blackbeard bristol, England
5, black Bart, welsh
6, ann. bonny, [ Irish ]
7, calico jack [English]
, 8, Grace O'Malley, [ Irish ]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
So Briton, here's your list
Now tell me, if you can find your guts
why you resent the 'pirate' name
given by us to your whole race?
With due respect
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[tell me]
Why do people misunderstand some things
1, we love pirates,
2, it is you Argies, that continually call us pirates, today, your fellow bloggers keep calling us British pirates,, all I did was to state that there were no British pirates,
Simple is this not, just very simple .and this can be considered offensive
To some.
But we don’t dislike them , just Argies calling us pirates [ today]
Does this help.
SHB. CONQUEROR. GALLAMOSA. LEPRECON SIMON68.
Jul 05th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your opinions regarding the causes and the consecuences of the invasion of 1982, but i just agree with a few of your conclutions.
I won't explain again the reasons why i think that both nations didn't respect resolution 502. On the other hand, i know that you love telling often about the support of our people to the invasion of 1982, because there was a lot of people celebrating in plaza de mayo, but, what you omit, as usuall, is that during the dictatorship, there was not any freedom of press, the few chanels that we had were under the control of the junta, all the time it was said that we were wining, beside, the 2nd of april, dictator galtieri had said that we had recovered the sovereignty of the islands without any rancour, which was absolutly false. Beside, when you argue about the protection that your so loved thatcher wanted to give to the islanders, when she ordered to send troops to the islands, you omit that in 1980 nicholas readley had been sent to the islands, who tried to convince the islanders, in order to acchieve that they accept to find a negotiated solution with arg. for this conflict, you omit too the fact that in 1980 thatcher had decided to cut the defence to the south atlantic, beside she had been warned one year before the invasion, about the danger that her decision implicated. However, as usuall, you just tell what is convenient for you.
Respecting the convention of 1849, i tell about it, in my survey, and i tell also about the two oportunities, when the u. k wanted to start negotiations with arg., in order to find a solution for this conflict (1968 and 1980). There was another proposal too by both governments in 1973, but i could know about it a few weeks ago.
I won't explain again what i think about how the resolutions should be, in the same way that know that you won't never accept that your country is not acting correctly either
@167 axelarg,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bolloxs, Axel.
No negotiations with you,
No “rights” here for you,
No oil for you,
No hope for you.
You go your way & we'll go ours.
Ta ta, bye bye.
@165 Here are some simple facts:
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 01. Sir John Hawkins - never a pirate.
2. Sir Francis Drake - never a pirate.
3. Sir Henry Morgan - questionable.
4. Jack Rackham - a pirate. Hanged by the British (1720).
5. Edward Teach (aka Blackbeard) - a pirate. Killed by the Royal Navy (1718).
6. Grace O'Malley - Irish. Not British (Died 1603).
7. Anne Bonny - pirate. Irish. Apparently died an American citizen in 1782.
8. Bartholomew Roberts - pirate. Killed by the Royal Navy (1722).
So. Not all pirates. And not all British. Historical accuracy not your strong point, is it?
@167 Never thought you'd listen/consider anyone's views except your own. Perhaps you could explain how your “dictatorship” rushed round everyone's homes and forced them all out onto the streets at gunpoint. Didn't, did they? YOUR ILLEGAL invasion and occupation of the Falkland Islands was supported by YOU, THE POPULATION, wasn't it? No question of right or wrong. Just “we were winning.” You are such a HYPOCRITE.
Are you capable of acting or thinking like an adult? Is it possible that you have an IQ higher than 5? Have you figured yet where to shove your “survey”? Have you even figured out what a moron you appear? Sorry. What a moron you ARE! Why don't you trot off and tell mummy that the nasty people on the internet have been nasty to you AGAIN?
The Rgs do not mention the acts of piracy carried out by Jewitt and Vernet much.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0169 Conqueror
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0thank you for your support.
@167 axel arg
Jul 06th, 2012 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blaming us for not defending the Falklands with a much bigger garrison in 1982 - so the war is our fault...............
It's a bit like those rapists who use the “but she dressed provocatively” argument. It does'nt wash.
We all know that Notts ill conceived moronic cuts encouraged you to invade - thats why the Falklands looms large every time there is a govt review, and why we have a proper deterrent force in place now.
We also know that negotiating with you encouraged you to view us as weak, and easy to fool.
We are not going to make that mistake with you again.
That is why we will not negotiate with you.
Why talk to someone who is prepared to tear up all agreements in short order and who would view any engagement with you on soverignty as a display of weakness, to be exploited to the detrement of the islanders.
Where are your arguments to show that Argentina has a sound claim?
Where are the 2 years worth of research materials?
Put up some links so that we can all see the evidence and judge it on it's merits.
166 briton,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentinians call you pirates, perhaps because
i) Are you?;
ii) some of you were (check above list);
iii) England thrice invaded Buenos Ayres with no luck (I wouldn't mention here whose luck was the bad one) 1587 Tom Candish, 1806 Beresford, 1807 Whitelocke (Auchmuty in Montevideo). However, Buenos Ayres First Mayor (for 1 day) was Whitelocke who, back home had to suffer and pay for his errors. I happen to have the 1st edition of his trials;
iiii) you ransacked and captured 'in the name of the Crown' all islands in all oceans, including rocks big enough as to give a petrel where to rest;
v) you built a worldwide empire by simple use of both or either cannofire and gunboat diplomacy;
vi) Argentines do not know you enough and, may I add
vi) it is 'very British' to be a pirate...
Am I a mad Argie?
if I love pirates,
if I love England,
if I love Shakespeare and,
by the way, never forget,
there's method in madness...
the question however lies
on who says the truth
and who lies,
who rules the waves
and who waives the rules
While fairplay is respected
holding no aces in the sleeve
ready to be unfold
history can be dissected
and no grudges hold
from a to zee.
Cheers!
@173 - Argie
Jul 06th, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Okay call the British pirates.
I'll call the Argentinians genocidal murdering thieves.
There you go, happy now?
However, just what does any of this have to do with this news item?
The Falklands Government have offered to talk to Argentina, after all that's what your government wanted, isn't it?
And now your government is lying, saying that talks have been refused by the British.
How does it feel, Argie, to have a government that is do monumentally stupid, that it tells bare faced lies, when all the world can see that they are lying?
How does it feel to have a government that BEGS other countries for help?
Has Argentina no dignity?
174
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Leprecons don't exist
and there's no fleeting gold
at the ends of a rainbow.
My wife is Irish
that's what she told...
The Argentina you know
or pretend to know
is not the Argentine that was.
Argentina's old
know this by heart.
Most are dying
for a comeback
but I don't
believe we'll see it again.
I'm sorry for the bennies
and what happened in that war
but it's Argentina's fate
to jump from the pan
to embers or lit coal.
'Nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever do...”
Have a good weekend!
169 Conqueror
I see what you mean
and you are right,
but it is mean,
'cause on 1,6,5
one never said English
Welsh, Irish, or what.
Just picked briton's glove
who for Brit pirates asked.
To set the record straight
there was nothing British
in those Tudor days
so what briton put forward
was viced from the start.
If he did it on purpose,
why are you called pirates
you may now understand...
Pirates of the past
were extremely brave men
sometimes society's scum
sometimes good others bad
always great mariners
from crib to grave
(perhaps in Neptune's arms)
lovers of their land
loyal to their crown
I respect old British heroes
no matter wherefrom they come
just as I respect England
and, of course, my own land.
Cheers!
9th July, 1813, was the day we declared independence from Spain.
Then we had to put order in our new country.
Unfortunately, we had Peron whose disciples rule our country every once and then, each time corrupting everyting around them and depleting the economy from its hard won treasures. We're in the middle of one now. This I say in order that you people change your minds into believing that what you is NOT what it is but a mock democracy ruled by mock red riding hoods. We have a long weekend now and I'll not be visiting these blogs until tuesday. Bless you!
.
SHB. CONQUEROR.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont deny the support that some people gave to the invasion of 1982, thats' why plaza de mayo was full, but let me ask you a question, the fact that plaza de mayo was full, does it represent the thought of most argentine people?, beside, when i see documentals about the war, i see planty of people celebrating in the english port also, when the ships parted from the u. k to the malvinas, however you never criticise that, you only argue about the support of our people who was celebrating in plaza de mayo, that shows how miopyc and hipocrite you are.
It's very easy to criticise the behaviour of our people in 1982, without making a deep analysis of that context. In 1982, arg. was a nation that was used to the coup d'etats, in fact between 1930 and 1983 just one democratic government could finish it's administration, the rest of the few democratic governments that we could have, were fallen by different coup d'etats. In 1982, people was very manipulated by the lies of the adict press that was functional to the regimen, and by the lies of the own dictatorship, in fact, i told you that galtieri had said the 2nd of april that we had recovered the sovereignty of the islands, without any rancour, which was absolutly false.
Beside, when some of you say that i wouldn't listen/consider anybody's views except mine, this is evident that you are describing your self, because you have never criticised absolutly anything from your side, you only criticise argentina and never recognized that the u. k is not acting correctly either. Allthough i support many of the decisions that c. f. k took regarding this dispute, i have always criticised also the fact that her government doesn't include the government from the islands to talk about sovereignty.
Regarding my investigation, i have always offered to send it to you by i mail, what just a few of you accepted it, i can send it to anyone.
176
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0this is evident that you are describing your self, because you have never criticised absolutly anything from your side,,,,,,,,,,,
one would suggest you put your glasses on and read .
@175 Argie,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l do not mind being called a pirate. lt has a certain raffish, independent air about it.
l guess from other Argentine's postings that its an insult in Spanish.
lts not an insult in English.
Your wife believes that the little people do not exist?
l couldn't say. l've never seen any, of course, but l lived in the Philippines for a few years & they have exactly the same folk tales as lreland.
l find that thought provoking as l don't think that there was ever any contact between the Philippines & lreland before at the earliest, the 16th century.
The beliefs in the Philippines go back, thousands of years.
l have met educated people, eg doctors etc, who claim to have seen the little people.
l havenot, but l keep an open mind on this.
Lilliput Land Of The Little People
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0??
@179 briton,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some say that they have seen giants, l find this unbelievable though.
How could they hide?
Well you know what some people are like,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s hard to call them a liar, and it’s even harder to prove it,
They do say, that yetis or the other names for it, have been seen in the North American wilderness and the andies, and the Himalayas,
Just what does one believe, until the day they either find one, or we all go to the giant in the sky .lol.
.
#178 Interesting. I'm ususally quite sceptical about these things, but they still intrigue me I must say...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many strange things,
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question
Does aliens really exist,
Answer,
If you was an alien looking down at earth right now, and looking at the slaughter , wars , bloodshed , devastation , the poor ,
Would you pop in to say hello.
That’s like the Falklands saying yes to CFK ,
It will never happen .?
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