MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
MPs call for UK to vote against World Bank loans to Argentina to counter Falklands’ aggression
Twenty nine British MPs have called for Britain to vote against Argentina receiving any more money from the World Bank. The group signed an early day motion in Parliament that was put forward by Conservative MP for Romford, Andrew Rosindell, who had previously visited the Falklands. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesin just a few days, the “Bank of the South” will be created to work like the World Bank, but with money from all SouthAmerican countries...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0when you bought a pant, we already made Bermuda with it...
Good, you won't be wanting any more dosh from the world bank then will you?
Jul 06th, 2012 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0;-)
yeah i can't see brazil or chile rushing to pump money into a country that has already shown complete contempt in honouring loan agreements
Jul 06th, 2012 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 01 Searinox (#):
Jul 06th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “Banco del Sur” was promised over 4 (FOUR) years ago, and still has no integrated capital!!!
Argentina hasn't any money to put up.
Venezuela hasn't any money to put up.
Brasil doesn't want to put up any money.
Paraguay has been publicly insulted by her former partners, so will not put up a cent.
Uruguay could put up her share but won't if the others don't.
No Bank of the South!!!!!!
Maybe Argentina could put in some of those 100 pesos notes they have just had printed?
Jul 06th, 2012 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Believe the pension fund has been used up on virtually interest free home loans to the Pikey's supporters. Glad I am not a member (hope you are not).
@1 So that's over £200m you owe us. Plus the UK's share of the $6.7billion you owe the Paris Club. How about the end of 2012? Sure you can manage that, can't you?
Jul 06th, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “Bank of the South” That's a comic routine right? I suppose they will be paid back what they lend out in $00 pesos......lol. I bet they did double zeros on purpose so they can add any number they want to already printed bills.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BoS's motto......“Where the money is always warmly fresh off the press and ready to add more zero's.”
6. Conqueror
Jul 06th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, I can't wait 'till the end of the year . I need my share now.
Enjoyed your recent postings, by the way. Keep punching!
The Banco del Sur is already created and operational, only thing missing being Brazil needing to ratify it. Something Dilma will make sure of ;)
Jul 06th, 2012 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina secured a 300 million dollar loan from the inter american development bank. IADB in February 2012. World bank funding Argentina has not requested they don't to deal with IMF and The world bank transparency requirements and structural reforms
Jul 06th, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has announced they inted to sign loans with China's development bank 3.1 billion and 2.0 billon for other infrastructure in the last 30 days
@9 Up but not operational. http://iniciativadebate.org/2012/05/22/banco-del-sur-comenzara-a-operar-en-julio/ Let's count a month and a half from May 22nd. Isn't that seven weeks? And when is seven weeks up?
Jul 06th, 2012 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 010 rnbgr
Jul 06th, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trouble is you have to be able to pay back the debt. Argentina, the biggest default in history - no fcuking chance.
How much is the UK at risk on this joke?
Member countries:
Argentina* ^ Ecuador* ^ Nicaragua* ^
Austria* El Salvador* ^ Norway*
Bahamas* ^ Finland* Panama* ^
Barbados* ^ France*^ Paraguay* ^
Belgium* Germany* Peru* ^
Belize* ^ Guatemala* ^ Portugal*^
Bolivia* ^ Guyana* ^ Slovenia
Brazil* ^ Haiti*^ Spain* ^
Canada^ Honduras* ^ Suriname*^
Chile* ^ Israel* Sweden*^
China, People's Republic of* ^ Italy* ^ Switzerland*^
Colombia* ^ Jamaica* ^ Trinidad and Tobago* ^
Costa Rica* ^ Japan* ^ United Kingdom ^
Croatia Korea, Republic of* ^ United States* ^
Denmark* Mexico* ^ Uruguay* ^
Dominican Republic* ^ Netherlands* ^ Venezuela*
^ Member of the Multilateral Investment Fund
@10 - rnbgr
Jul 06th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As Falklands are British has stated, you have to pay back any loans, it is not a gift of money.
By the way, word of advice, if you don't pay back the Chinese, they'll take your country in lieu of money. Best not to get on the wrong side of them, or you'll all be having to learn Madarin, Cantonese or English, the 3 main languages spoken in China.
Then you'll all have to learn to love Mao, work for a pittance in dangerous environments, every day of the year, as communists don't recognise religion. And don't forget to 'worship' the party, or you'll find yourselves on a one way trip to Manchuria to their 're-education' camps.
Good luck with all that.
Lep
Jul 06th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are confusing the chinese with the invasive brits/yanquis again... How many sovereign nations has China invaded in their 5000+ year old history? You guys invaded more sovereign nations last year only, to compare...
14 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Last year's peace keeping.
Done to keep you safe in your beds at night although I personally can't wait until these 'manic' groups, the sane world is protecting you from, discover Argentina on the map. although you will probably discover that you have a lot in common. Fanatical, violent, ruthless, extreme, unstable, aggressive, oppressive etc. etc.
Since when do you keep peace worh weapons??? Mayhap you fight starvation with Ramadan? Sickness with disease? Only in your twisted world view, your troops are dealing with peace. For the rest of the world the only peace you bring, is the eternal one...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#10
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you screw China out of their moeny, they will come hunting for your arse with a dildo the size of.......see that telephone pole over on the side of the road there? The don't play around. This is a country that executes factory managers for tainted baby milk milk with a single bullet, then sends the wife a bill for the bullet. You RG's better cget your ass in order now.
World Bank ?
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0aahhhhaaa thats an institution from 1950s years !
laugh.*
@14 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't ask me, ask the Dalai Lama.
16 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The world is full of tyrants. Did you not have an episode with a few (well a lot really) in the 70s? Please remind me.
If you are of Italian, German or Spanish ancestry then your former countrymen also have recent episodes with similar evils. How many were killed in WWII. Started by Britain and America?
You would have us send pastelles?
Good job that everyone doesn't think like you. The sane world has just about had enough of Italian, Spanish, German, Libyan, Iraqi, Iranian, Afganistani and other extremists who want to destroy either their own people, mankind or ethnic groups.
And please don't bleat on about the British Empire given all of the blood spilt on the American continent. The argument is worn out.
20
Jul 06th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again, the fault lays with the poor people of this world, you have noresponsability whatsoever for the world looking as it does. Spare me your hypocracy, YOU arethe ones looting the “3rd world” and every single resource that you over-consume, is the very same resource that people from the “3rd world” gave up on.
21 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You deluded tit. What do you think your ancestors were up to in America?
Have you ever heard of the Commonwealth? Have you any idea as to how much wealth is transferred to the 'poor world' from Britain, the Commonwealth, America? And Argentina? I'll tell you.....FCUK ALL.
You are so ignorant and stupid. Looting the third world?
We are over consuming?
The sane world looks to help the third world and incredible progress has been made in the last 50 years. Whre was the Pikey the other month? I'll tell you, She was in Angola. You think that Dos Santos has done a lot to help the poor in Angola?
Apart from promoting the Falklands conflict she was trying to sell them junk produced from the 'shit hole'. Not what the poor people want or need, just promoting the Argentine economy whilst kissing a man whose hands are still dripping in blood.
You're sad and the hypocrite here and as stated earlier, it is a good job that everyone doesn't think like you.
My ancestors did in America what you rednecks wannabes are doing now in Afghanistan, a fact that doesn't free you of any guilt...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have done NAUGHT for the “3rd world” except looted it for resources, imposed military dictatorships at will and blocked any possible development with loans using unpayable taxes...
@23
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Guzz you are being rather silly, I think you will find the 3rd world was very messed up even before we arrived.
“My ancestors did in America” Your ancestors? You mean us don't you? Any one who currently lives in a country created by colonialism has no right to complain about it, if I were you I would keep your mouth shut and remember just how Uruguay cane into existence.
@21 -Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say you are Uruguayan? Then your ancestors also looted the '3rd' world. Then you just decided looting wasn't enough and decided to steal their land and murder the rightful owners. you always like to overlook your own shady past, don't you?
People who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stone.
And people who borrow money from the Chinese should only default at their own risk. Remember there are a billion of them, they could invade Argentina without breaking a sweat, especially as they saw how the British handed Argentina their arses back in 1982.
Try not to feel too upset though, the British also handed the Chinese their arses in the Korean War.
One Regiment of the British Army, the Glosters, delayed a whole Chinese Army for days and destroyed their fighting capability, giving UN troops time to reorganise an effective defence. The Chinese General reportedly said to the Commanding Officer of the Glosters, “If this is how you defend a piece of land that means nothing to you, then I pity the men who invade England.”
So 1,600 men stopped an Army of nearly 100,000, which is why that regiment is now called the Glorious Glosters.
So Guzz, just why do you support Argentina in everything, unreservedly? Especially as Argentina is currently screwing Uruguay over the channel dredging.
Doesn't that make you a traitor to your own country, Uruguay? Or are you really an Argentinan in Uruguayan clothing? A 5th columnist perhaps?
However, back to the subject at hand. It's about time the British government stopped loaning good money after bad to Argentina who:
a. Never pay it back
b. And are threatening a British Overseas Territory
I know it will affect the poor people in Argentina, but sometimes in order to get rid of a corrupt and irresponible government, the people need to take action.
I hope the Argentine people get rid of the albatross around their necks called CFK, soon, before she destroys Argentina completely.
23 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What take all of their wealth? Poppies, heroine?
They are there to stabilize and democratize the country and combat the taliban who have no interest in either. With success notwithstanding the heavy price paid in lives by both countries and others from the sane world.
If Argentina cannot pay back its debts, then it should not borrow. I have no sympathy for you although you are obviously bleating for some. Argentina instead of being a shit hole should be one of the richest countries in the world. Do you want me to tell you why you are not?
Hint: How much is the PIkey worth?
You are not my ancestor, Conor, they are all dead.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Drop that belly button complex, the world does not spin around with your hometown as axis...
If we are to restrain from speaking our minds because of our ancestors, you guys really have some serious shutting up to do...
@14 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China invaded Tibet and are still there. China wants Taiwan right now and in the past have invaded Korea and Vietnam and Mongolia.
@23 Guzz
Britain has given the world the international language 'english'. Britain has been at the forefront of invention and science and democracy and computing and the internet and industry and music and almost all international sports. Argentina has given the world 'The Tango' and embarassing governments.
What else has Argentina given the world... ah yes, ... nothing!
27. Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We would be just happy if you said something intelligent and not just anti-sane world.
Bet you are just stuck with a nagging wife and mother-in-law.
Just out of interest,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 Guzz
You guys invaded more sovereign nations last year only
[Please could you name all these countries we illegally invaded in 2011,]
16 Guzz
Since when do you keep peace worth weapons??? Mayhap you fight starvation with Ramadan? Sickness with disease?
[peace keepers carry weapons, and so so Argentinean peace keepers]
[The UK gave over 12 billion to the poor last year ]
[please can you tell us all, how mach argentina gave the poor last year]
[ancestors]
As we all decent from Africa,
Then we are all technically related, are we not .
25
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody said you aren't experts of taking lifes, you've mastered that art to perfeccion...
About that channel dredging, we'll just build a new harbour, outside Rocha... The chinese are paying for it :)
26
Tell that story to your kids, they might believe you...
28
Tibet and Taiwan are not sovereign nations, correct me if I'm wrong...
So, 3 nations invaded by China (that you can come up with) in 5000+ years...
I got to admit, in my eyes, you guys are a bigger threat to freedom by far :)
I'll give you the invention and science, fantastic achievements. In democracy you still have a long way to go (stop intruding on peoples privacy, for example). Computing and Internet... lets not take ALL from the yanquis, shall we?
Music... I'm sorry to say it, but our music is, in my opinion, far better than anything you come up with. I admit you guys are better at it than the yanquis, but still, it's a lot of mumbo-jumbo accompanied by a good tune...
Sports... what can I say, you brought us the football, we showed you what to do with it :)
31 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good job that you are just a jackass then and nobody is likely to take any 'real' notice of you.
@27
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But who are your ancestors Mr Guzz? The natives who are now mostly dead or subsumed?, in which case you should hate Uruguay and colonialism which created the country you live in, which stole these native lands, or are you an implanted colonial of mostly European decent? i.e. related to me, in which case you should love uruguay and colonialism for creating you and your country.
You need to be a bit clearer in your arguments sir, however I think that you cant except that it was European colonialism and our looting of the 3rd/new world which brought Uruguay and all you love into existence, show some respect, grow up and leave the Falklands alone, Mr colonially created Guzz.
Conor
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm an Uruguayan of mixed blood, mainly spanish, italian, portuguese, charrua, french, russian and greek...
I condemn what was done to the Charruas, both by the Spaniards, Portuguese and Uruguay itself. If I had the choice, I would have opted not to be born, could I grant the life of the mighty Charruas...
My people are the product of colonialism, it doesn't make colonialism any better. Myself am a son of a imperialism, it doesn't stop me from fight it wherever it may be, as someone once said...
Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You claim that “us guys” have invaded more sovereign states in the past 12 months than China in its 5000 year history.
Are you sure of that?? Or are you wrong?
Rumour has it,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But for an English man, Christopher Columbus, would never have found the new world,
Apparently the Englishman, told Christopher that someone else will beat him to the treasures of India ,
And if he gave him £5 he would tell him where it was,
Christopher paid the money, the Englishman gave him the map, and said enjoy your trip to India,
Christopher finally found land, and when he landed, he found a placard that read,
This is the Americas, and not bloody India, and that Englishman owes me £5,
Semus O, Flynn. Dublin , 05 June 1490…
[Justa rumour lads, just a rumour ..]
.
Let me see... Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya... In this decade only you equalled Chinas 5000+ years of invasions...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@34
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'm an Uruguayan of mixed blood, mainly spanish, italian, portuguese, charrua, french, russian and greek...
My people are the product of colonialism, it doesn't make colonialism any better. Myself am a son of a imperialism, it doesn't stop me from fight it wherever it may be, as someone once said...”
Thank you for clearing up the question mark over you ancestry, Mr Guzz, however as a “son of imperialism” admitting it doesn't exempt you from being hypocritical or slightly guilty, the courageous and noble thing to do would be to return to your closest country of origin however we both know that 99.999999999% of all people in colonially created countries simply won't do that, I myself hold no regrets for European colonialism or the British empire of 1707-1997 RIP. I fully support the right of every country to exist as the majority opinion will always outweigh the minority opinion plus there isn't much that can be done for the natives as you know. However the point is that a country like Argentina or Uruguay cannot denounce one countries existence if they are in the same boat you see? South America needs to respect the Falklands right to exist much as the Falklands need to support/ respect the nations of South America right to exist.
@37
Oh By the way we didn't invade Libya, we enforced a no fly zone.
38
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't mix history with the present. The fact that most countries in the world are a product of colonialism in one way or another, doesn't justify present invasions of soverreign states. No one is killing natives in Uruguay, but your glorious nation is still walking in the same old tracks...
I never said I wanted the islanders out of there, I want the BRITS out of there...
37 Guzz (#)
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me see... Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya
We did not invade any of the countries that you mention .in 2011
.
@38
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Don't mix history with the present. The fact that most countries in the world are a product of colonialism in one way or another, doesn't justify present invasions of soverreign states. No one is killing natives in Uruguay, but your glorious nation is still walking in the same old tracks...”
I never tried to justify Iraq/Afghanistan I along with the majority of my countrymen, were against the war right form the start!
“I never said I wanted the islanders out of there, I want the BRITS out of there...”
You are resorting to the same argument again, you are still not getting it are you? The islands along with Latam countries, were created in the same fashion via colonialism, Uruguay and Argentine had self determination to become independent from the Spanish empire, so why cant the islanders have self determination to become independent or remain a territory. You had the right why cant the islanders? This is the whole problem with Latam they denounce colonialism were there isn't any and yet they support the existence of their own colonially created nation states, hypocritical?
China: at various times:
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nepal, Tibet, Vietnam, Cambodia, Bhutan, south Korea, India, Burma,
Historically:
Many of the states that today make up China, India, various -istans,
Probably a list of thirty “sovereign states” if you could be bothered to look.
Please, as per your claim, where are the 30 sovereign states “invaded” by “us guys” this year.
Thanks in advance, or admit you talk shite.
Briton
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stick to that if it helps you sleep better :)
Who cares if it was 2011 or 2009, fact is, your gov is responsible for more invasions this past decade than China in 5000+ years, yet you have the stomach to point fingers and say “beware of them”.
Just like you do with Iran, they haven't invaded anyone since the bloody medieval times and you keep trying to convince the world they are dangerous.
YOU are dangerous, together with your masters the yanquis.
YOU guys are the biggest threat to humanity these days...
guzz, you are starting to panic,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ok
you said 2011 not us, and you was wrong,
you mention CHINA
you should have mentioned iceland or greenland,
there are many many reasons why china has not invaded anyone,
1, they proberbly had no interest
2, they were busy, getting invaded by others over 5,000 years.
.
44
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have invaded loads of people over 5000 years, hence the size of their country. It's a little like the Argtard logic that they didn't “invade” Patagonia, as it was just next door.
Ask the Vietnamese whether they think China is a friendly neighbour, or Taiwan, Tibet, Korea etc..
Guzz as usual talking out of his backside.
You guys mentioned China, stating they would invade Argentina if your prophecies are fulfilled. I'm merely letting you know that China is not an invasive nation, like you guys.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I checkedit up, the only SOVEREIGN NATIONS that China has invaded the last 400 years are; Vietnam in 1979 and 1788, and Mongolia 1693.
Seems this guys have a totally different perspective of the world than you folks. Not only that, they have existed as a nation far longer than any of the European ones, they manage a population several times the amount of the biggest European one AND they are in charge of the worlds production :)
I'd say lets have a look at what they are doing before we even think of glancing your way :)
And being brit bashing,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We to could throw things wildly to the wind, like,
Argentina has had more wars than Greenland and Pitcairn Island together
In there entire history.
You can manipulate anything if you try ..
45 Monkeymagic
Agreed
besides this wont gets us our money back, will it .
Briton
Jul 06th, 2012 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, but choose a country about 20 times the size of Argentina for your comparison :)
Besides, I don't need to take on brit bashing, the mere truth is enough...
the truth is very hard, if it not the truth,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0now i will tell you a truth,
as great as i am,
even i cannot find or name you a countrie, 20 times larger that argentina,
now that is a truth,
now you find one for me .lol.
@48
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really? I tried Uruguay fact bashing and you have yet to reply to my comments Mr Guzz.
Another truth,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eye bet you, today, that within the next 75/80 years, argentina will in some way , shape , or form, be involved in Empire building, and it will be legal,
But not what you think,
Or of this earth,
Wanna bet .lol
.
A few months ago the British begged India to keep taking the money, and India responded ”We don't want your aid. India's Finance Minister has said that his country “does not require” British aid, describing it as “peanuts”
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina should do the same, who are these Brits? They think they are kind of important and the world moves takes to them LOL.
Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what were China doing in Korea in 1950 then, if Libya/Afghanistan/Iraq count on your list, then Korea and Taiwan definately count.
So, your comparison that us guys have invaded more sovereign states in the last year than China in 5000+, has already had to change to more in the last 10 years than China in the last 400...as you started to realise just how many “states” we're swallowed up in the formation of China and that perhaps they weren't as friendly to their neighbours as you thought.
Keep googling, you will find your claims become even more ludicrous the more you look.
52, marcos,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They think they are kind of important,
[Fact is Marcos we are kind , supportive, foolish perhaps ,
Generous and welcome,
Yes a few silly ministers got there knickers in a twist,
But let’s be fair her,
When the might CFK and her government , and her indocronoughts .
Give billions to help the poor, no matter how silly or stupid you think it is,
Then please let us know,
There are millions that would pray just for fresh water,
Now you should either be very grateful for what you have,
Or very shameful for what other do not have .
.
Best and fairest proposal would cut lending to UK by unlawfully usurp and occupy foreign territory (Islas Malvinas Argentinas for the clueless ...) and fun for almost 50 years of UN resolutions calling for an end to colonialism everywhere and in all its forms. Resolution 1514. I say 50 years only in the Malvinas issue, Resolutions 2065, 3160, etc., Etc., And almost unanimous vote by the OAS for Argentina's position. Resolution “forgotten” the O.N.U. No. 2621, “the continuation of colonialism in all its forms and manifestations, IS A CRIME, which violates the UN Charter and the Principles of International Law”.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 055,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have been through this subject with a fine nit comb, and you guys lost,
Find something more interesting about your country,
At least something good,
Like CFK resigning .
53
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I only went 400 years back in history... want me to post all invasions UK was responsible during that same period? :)
52 Marcos
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Was this Finance Minister a rich fat bastard who had clearly never known poverty. Possibly had been dipping his hand in the till?
What do you think this lot might have thought about his gesture?
Poverty in India is widespread, with the nation estimated to have a third of the world's poor.World Bank states, 37% of the total Indian people falls below the international poverty line of US$ 1.5 a day (PPP, in nominal terms 21.6 a day in urban areas and 14.3 in rural areas).[1]
According to 2010 data from the United Nations Development Programme, an estimated 37.2% of Indians live below the country's national poverty line.[2] A 2010 report by the Oxford Poverty and Human Development Initiative (OPHI) states that 8 Indian states have more poor than 26 poorest African nations combined which totals to more than 410 million poor in the poorest African countries.[3][4]
According to a new poverty Development Goals Report, as many as 320 million people in India and China are expected to come out of extreme poverty in the next four years, while India's poverty rate is projected to drop to 22% in 2015.[5] The report also indicates that in Southern Asia, however, only India, where the poverty rate is projected to fall from 51% in 1990 to about 22% in 2015, is on track to cut poverty in half by the 2015 target date.[5]
The latest UNICEF data shows that one in three malnourished children worldwide are found In India, whilst 42 percent of the nation's children under five years of age are underweight. It also shows that a total of 58 percent of children under five surveyed were stunted. Rohini Mukherjee, of the Naadi foundation-one of the NGO's that published the report-stated India is “doing worse than sub-Saharan Africa,”.
57 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 053... want me to post all invasions UK was responsible during that same period? :)
Becha cant name all invasions, and not just the ones on wikipedia,
We will give you 5 mins.
.
@25LEPREcon
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regards,
The stand made by 1st Bn The Gloucestershire Regiment – the “Glorious Glosters” as headline writers called them – in the face of massed human-wave attacks by Chinese communist troops ranks alongside Rorke’s Drift as an example of steadfastness in the face of overwhelming odds. For three days, between April 22 to 25, 750 men of the battalion repulsed successive assaults by a force seven times bigger. Surrounded, with no hope of rescue, running short on water and ammunition, the men from the West Country fought literally to the last bullet and grenade. Some 620 failed to make it back to friendly lines. A third of the battalion were killed or wounded, the survivors spending the next two years in Chinese or North Korean prison camps.
I wonder if it was this that prompted a Royal Marine officer to state, that we could have held the hills around Stanley until hell froze over.
I also wonder if he knows why the Glosters are were the only Regiment in the British Army to wear badges on both the front and back of their headdress?
Got to love those West Countrymen!!
devonions for ever,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0guzz, remember [uk] 400 years hint hint .
Only 2000 signs allowed on each post... 1st post would take me to 1997, starting 2012...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No thanks, you already know what countries you've sacked. If you don't, take an oil sample. Oils with naphthene as base tend to come from the middle east, paraffin base indicates the oil might come from Libya...
Libyans oil, free Libyans can sell it to whoever like.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We think you will find. That there is a very big difference between invading someone against there will,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And fighting a battle, or asked to or come to someone else’s aid .
,,,,,,,,,,
we suspect you will not find as many invaded countries as you think .
Of course Briton, “3rd world” countries are standing in line, begging you to bomb them...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@64briton.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You would think that was obvious wouldn't you. Not to some apparently.
65 Guzz
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See ya done again,
Please name a 3rd world country that we bombed.
Empires are either acquired, built on expansion or conquest,
Great Britain, did not acquire it total empire on conquest,
Is that why the Iraquis and the Afghans kicked your butts? :)
Jul 06th, 2012 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@60 - Hey RC, hope you are well.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well no one does the impossible like the British.
Spanish Armarda (Queen Bess at her best and Sir Francis Drake playing bowls)
Waterloo (Duke of Wellington - they came in the same old way and we defeated them in the same old way.)
Rorke's Drift (Zulu's, sir, thousands of 'em)
The Battle of Britain (spring chicken to shite hawk in one easy lesson)
The Glorious Glosters (The battle of Alexandria 1801 where they repulsed attacks from both the front and the rear - and earned the privilege of wearing two cap badges and the battle of in Korea)
The Falklands War (every military expert in the world said the British were insane to try and retake the islands).
All were considered impossible for the British to win, yet we somehow did.
Not quite,
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And not a good time,
And not fully supported,
But back to argentina,
Eye believe, argentina got its land by conquest, and not expansion .
@69LEPRecon
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very well thanks mate. Got called home from work this morning, bloody house nearly flooded. Do you suppose this means the drought is officialy over, hope so because that was a bucket I was using this morning, not a bloody hose pipe!
Of course Briton, “3rd world” countries are standing in line, begging you to bomb them...
What you think about Guzz's latest. because I could swear that was exactly what I heard the Free Libyans asking for on Sky, BBC, CNN, FOX, RT, FRance 24 and Al Jazheer. Perhaps he was watching different news coverage?
@52
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad you agree with us-make your own money by getting off your asses and doing some work-don't sponge off everyone else.
Any UK aid earmarked to Argentina should be diverted to build a huge port complex in the Falklands. We should spend money on sending another prince in an unarmed helicopter. That clearly scares the living daylights out of Argentina.
@72PB
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have heard a rumour that Harry put in a very nice request to have his helicopter painted yellow. I think he might be slightly envious of his brothers latest heroic war exploits!
71 reality check
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he is very confused.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Well im of to watch star trek,
See you guys, tomorrow.
p/s
Remember
To be British, is to be at peace, with one’s self ,
To be anything else,
You will always be left wanting .lol.
.
I think he should... and on his maiden trip he should bring the whole family, and set for a non-stop trip to the Falklands.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would recommend the Beatles 11th album for enhanced experience...
@69LEPREcon
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah Zulu, what a clssic.
“Your in the choir are'nt you Evans?”
“Yes Sergeant, Baritone.”
“Well get up that hill and sing out if you see the Zulus.”
“Yes Sergeants.”
“And take your bloody Bondook with you, you dozy Welsh man.”
Classic, watched it when it fisrt came out in 68? in the Garrison Cinema in Stanley Fort, with 1st Battalion Welsh Regiments. Can still see all those Taffs standing on the seats cheering their heads off, happy memories.
4 Simon68 (#) you really need to get inform, because Unasur has already decided how many money will put all the countries, and Argentina and Brazil will put the same quantity which is more than the rest of the southamerican countries...
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you dont have to believe me just search the info with google and you'll find it...
Forget the Falklands.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't lend them any money on the basis that they've already refused to repay the world billions they've owed for years.
@78Idlehands.
Jul 06th, 2012 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the world is starting to realise that. A liitle nudge along the way will reinforce it.
Guzz:
Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought you might like to know that between 256 and 214 BC, 42 years, China invaded a total of 18 sovereign countries.
They were:
Zhejiang
Fujian
Guangdong
Guangxi
Yan
Zhao
Qi
Chu
Han
Wei
Qin
Guangzhou
Fuzhou
Guilin
Xinjiang
Tibet
Manchuria
Inner Mongolia
Of course I wanted to know that Simon!
Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've been looking for that information for.... ages...
81 Guzz (#)
Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Glad you liked it, if you want more I'll pass it on to you as I get the info, this might take between 10 and 15 years to complete.
Simon
Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0If my calculations are correct, this conversation is obsolete in 10 years.
But I do have a never ending appetite for history...
Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice philosophical question for you, “Are those who ignore histrory doomed to repeat it, is that the lesson of history?”
The re-election of George W Bush is a major indication of that human mind isn't at all affected by what history teaches them when it comes to making decisions. The lesson of history is nothing but the story of the winning side...
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time comes with lessons, history with information.
Let me ask you a question. When you were a kid, how much did you learn from listening to your parents, and how much did you learn from trying it yourself?
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/larger-ships-for-the-falklands-registry/
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0@85Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child. Now that I have become a man, I have put away childish things.
I learned from my parents, thats what parents do, teach their children how to think for themself, well thats what mine did. No I am not a christian, I am an agnostic but wise words are worth listening to, wherever you find them.
Wise words are indeed RC, but don't pretend to make me believe you live by them.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm truly doing my best here, but you just don't seem to recongnize wise words for what they are :)
I do not know why I am going to tell you this but I am going to tell you anyway. My wife is a pagan, sometimes named has witches. She lives by a rule, they call the rule of four. They believe that anything they do comes back fourfold. You do something in life that is bad against another person, it comes back four times worse. You do something good for someone, it comes back four times better. I adopted that philosophy, I do not go around behaving like a boy scout looking to do good for everyone, but it sure as hell makes me think, before I do anyhting bad to anyone! Seems to have worked so far.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Guzz 83
Jul 07th, 2012 - 06:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0> But I do have a never ending appetite for history...
You do seem to have an appetite for that curious Argentine version of it, in which the only actors are evil, rascally Brits. As compared most recently to, say, Saddam, Gaddafi, and the Taliban. Personally I'm rather flattered by this.
@76 reality check,
Jul 07th, 2012 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0ln Zulu, l found it amusing when Bromhead says to Chard “well chin chin, have fun with your mud pies”!
Although Bromhead was initially portrayed as an upper class twit, he had the good sense to co-operate with Chard instead of opposing him & turned out a good commander in the end.
An entertaining film.
Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please can you now admit that your statement that “you lot” have invaded more sovereign states in the past year than China has in its 5000+ year history, was complete bullshit.
Please can you admit that you made this statement up without any consideration of the facts, or any historical knowledge.
Furthermore, can you consider the admission that the VAST majority of your posts are in the same vein. An exaggeration and distortion of historical evidence and make believe.
Might just concentrate Arg minds if they find consquences for actions.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0soverienty can be talked about if the islanders want to they dont so pipe down.
89
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I too believe in Karma..
90
You haven't heard what I think of Saddam, Gaddafi and the Taleban.
Regardless how much my views may differ from theirs, it doesn't give you the right to invade anyones sovereignity...
92
I admit you need to get facts put in front of you one by one, and explained throughoutly. My statement of 1 year vs 5000+ is of course symbolic, for the actual numbers, please cosult Simon.
Methinks, “mayhap” guzz, that you handle the truth very carelessly.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 095
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't want to confuse you, having in mind you are the minions of Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron, mayhap truths in high concentrations are too big a mouthful for you peeps...
14 Guzz (#14)
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0'How many sovereign nations has China invaded in their 5000+ year old history?'
Dozens (see Monkey, Musky, etc, and Simon's posting for a short list #80).
Most countries names are lost to history because they are all now called 'China', not the United States of China but 'China'. Unification can now absorb the name Tibet, and also the Manchurias now the Cold War is over. Tiawan, N. Korea and the independent SE Asian countries such as Burma, Cambodia, Vietnam are also 'domino' targets.
The next stage is 'China Overseas'. These will not be called Overseas Territories', they will be called 'China'.
Argentina, if cut off from the World Bank, etc, will recourse to China. The first nation in South America to become part of China? Maybe.
And will China be gentle with her dominions? History is not quiet on this point.
Dozens in 5000+ years. You guys haven't bloody existed for 5000 years and yet you quite easily double the numbers (I'm NOT indicating any numbers here, a few of you needs clarification).
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0A quick glance at more recent history shows that China has invaded 2 sovereign nations since the 20th century and forward. I'm not talking about a minor actor on the world scene, I'm talking about China.
Bottom of line is, China doesn't share your invasive nature. They might have their own flaws, aswe have ours, but don't suppose the world will act this or that way because you would've...
@94 Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Carelessness with the facts renders them untrue.
British invasions of sovereign territories in recent times have been to counter belligerent governments not to acquire land and incorporate them into Britain. You have to go back 200 years since we did that kind of thing and history shows that argentine stock, namely the spanish and italians (more recently as an axis power) were all at it as were most countries across the world.
We had the right to invade certain nations in recent times as mandated by the UN not as mandated by the Junta.
China the contradictory communist-capitalist country is built on territory acquired through wars, the Hann, the Quinn, in part the mongols. Even now it has internal groups fighting for self determination and democracy.. its' at war with itself.
@98
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0And do you think that we in Britain, an old imperial European country give a shit?
Short answer No, so go away.
If you enter my country by force, I don't bloody care about your reasons. You are invading my freedom. Period.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem with you lot is that, what matters is what YOU guys believe.
China is not a communist nation. no state with a government is.
Socialism is the way to communism, and the Chinese imposes the socialism as the dictatorship of the masses, its people being the masses (led by the communist party)
China is on a path, agree with it or not, that can be described as controlled socialism.
I wouldn't call them capitalists either, for only them knows what they are about to do with the worlds economy...
Well done,if like me you signed a gov petition. I don't want any more of my money going to the Argentine gov.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0@101
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0How cares about the sodding Chinese, Mr Guzz? China's leadership are nothing more then a bunch of dictators who follow, disappear and tightly control a population 0f 1.3 billion people for their own twisted belief's, China will become a more Liberal/capitalist society eventually, communism has failed and China has went from being extreme left to a gradually centralised position over the last 70+ years. Oh and by the way what the hell has China got to do with British Tory MP's wanting to block Argentine world trade handouts?
Off subject cos GUZZ is boring us, if HMS Dauntless (a Destroyer) is relieved by a FRIGATE, does that mean we are de-militarizing the South Atlantic?
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Musky 99
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0> You have to go back 200 years since we did that kind of thing
This is another interesting thing about the Argentine view of history, at least as it's commonly espoused here. First of all, it only seems to recognize evil Brits, secondly it seems to have no notion of context, drivers, or any other players, and thirdly it is fixated on the age of colonialism and the 19th century, as if only the Brits were around at the time and nothing much had taken place since.
Is this the education system at work?
@104
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably!
About time, l say.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not one red cent for the quagmire that they call Argentina.
Nobody is blaming you for your colonialism of the past, we criticize your imperialism of today.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you want to play the victims for atrocities made by your ancestors, fine by me. I don't really care about history like that. What makes you guys a threat to humanity is your recent behaviour, invading sovereign nations.
@108
Jul 07th, 2012 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imperialism is long dead, and mostly because it ceased a long, long time ago to be of any economic interest. If you're trying to argue that recent conflicts have got anything to do with imperialism, you're still stuck in your 19th century world view.
109
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Colonialism might be long dead, in the sense that countries don't longer take colonies. Imperialism is alive and kicking. The definition of it being:
“The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.”
As I said, alive and kicking :)
I can tell you all that we WILL be voting to against any loans going to Argentina and I can also tell you all that I have seen many more country's that are going to vote against giving loans to Argentina.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@110
Jul 07th, 2012 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Leaving aside the special case of the break up of the Soviet Empire, the most flagrant attempt at territorial acquisition I am aware of is Argentina's continuing lust to seize the Falklands. At the same time, your Chinese chums are doing a pretty decent job of establishing economic and political hegemony in Africa.
But you're mainly interested in British villainy, I believe.
As regards Afghanistan, there was an intervention on one side of a civil war whose main aim was to deny a haven to Al-Qaeda and the Taliban. You don't need to look further than this for an explanation. Nobody in their right mind wants to acquire Afghanistan, not just because the locals are so spectacularly hostile but also because there is nothing much there worth acquiring.
For Iraq you can make a stronger case, though personally I don't buy the argument that Iraq was all about oil. If you want oil in the Middle East, long experience has shown that bribery and corruption are much more cost-effective and long term sustainable than a full-blown evasion. I think you have to look for the explanation in Bush's cowboy mentality and Blair's calculation of the British interest as being Bush's loyal ally. With, in both cases, a hefty degree of self-delusion regarding WMD, and a genuine distate for a war-mongering dictator who'd already massacred his own people and invaded a neighbour. (cf. Galtieri. The WMD kind of self-sustaining delusion is also quite common in politics, consider the fantastical arguments deployed in support of a certain LatAm country's claim to have rights over a foreign archipelago 400 miles off its shore).
The Libyan elections seem to be going pretty well today.
You might also have mentioned Kosovo and Sierra Leone, but perhaps like Libya you should ask the locals first for their view of the intervention before getting all pious about it.
And at the risk of violating Godwin's law, I believe we once also violated Hitler's sovereignity.
Spare me your governments lies as to why you invaded 2 sovereign nations by force. First you pur puppets in charge, then you sell them weapons to commit atrocities with. When you don't need them anymore or they don't fulfill your expectations, you point at those very same atrocities, bomb their nation, take theor resources and finally you set up contracts on the rebuilding of the parking lot, these contracts going to companies of your choosing...
Jul 07th, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I every single part of the process you gain cash, from selling weapons, to the sacking of resources and the rebuilding of what you detroyed yourselves.
@113
Jul 07th, 2012 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it's any consolation, I didn't believe my government's lies either. The invasion of Iraq was a disgrace. But this doesn't mean your accusations hold any more water :
- you should be directing most of these criticisms at the US. The UK is and was no more than a bit player in the whole affair, and has gained very little in terms of contracts, oil, or arms deals.
- As for the US, you are talking about events that extended over at least three decades and several successive governments. Things change, and in particular assessments of who may be regarded as an ally at any given moment. It was Saddams' invasion of the sovereign state of Kuwait that convinced the US he wasn't their proxy arsehole any more, and not some conspiracy involving the resurfacing of his parking lot.
- The rest of it is called capitalism, and hardly the sole province of the Brits, or even the US.
Guzz is not interested in ACTUAL history. He isonly interested in SYMBOLIC history.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In actual history, events that actually took place are analysed for the motives, morality, behaviours and consequences of the time.
In Guzz's symbolic history, it doesnt matter whether the events actually took place, whether there is any evidence to support anything he claims, or whether there are reasons, circumstances or other factors.
In my version of “symbolic” history, yesterday Guzz was discovered having inappropriate relations with a donkey. I doubt it happened, I have no evidence to support the claim, nor any knowledge as to whether the relations were inappropriate or not...but with “symbolic” history, it doesn't matter...Guzz is a donkey worrier from now on.
I just hope nobody interfered with anybody's sovereignity by rescuing the donkey.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I firmly believe that the rhetoric about “imperialism” and the evil British empire from Guzz and all the other Malvinista freaks in this forum, is an excuse for a future war yet again. They are wrapped up in their twisted history and world of make belief which they feel entitles them to a land that was never theirs in the first place.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Monkey
Jul 07th, 2012 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't confuse history with your wet dreams...
Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can't hear you...empty your mouth first!
P.S.
I was confusing history with “symbolic” history as you are prone to do. In this version of history there is a pair of symbolics for you to play with...
Bank of the South = even more political appointees creating ever-growing bureaucracy. Hope it doesn't happen, the money would be better spent building houses for the poor, improving education and public health, taking steps to enhance security.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0119
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again I say, don't confuse history with your own wet dreams.
In a way, I'm glad if the donkey and me gave you a pleasant time, but it has naught to do with the course of history, it's all happening in your head...
Mr Guzz, no one cares for your ideas of history and all that symbolic rubbish as for the other commentators trying to justify the Iraq war don't bother, it was a monumental cock up in foreign policy and the worst since Suez in 56' Can we all please stop bickering and relate to the fucking article at hand?
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly, you have lots of wet dreams where Britain and the US are the evil bad guys, and everyone else (including China) are peaceful heroes.
The fact that the evidence doesn't support it, your own examples doesn't support it, and you cannot see past your own wet dream fantasy...makes it sadly akin to the Guzz:donkey incident.
You may wish for both to be accurate history, you may imagine both when alone, but neither actually reflect real history.
Conor, not many people cares about your opinions either, it doesn't mean you aren't free to post them...
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do like me, if you don't care, try not to respond to the thread. Responding to it is a healthy sign that you do care after all...
@124 Guzz
Jul 07th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh hey, we agree on something.
Conor, if you don't appreciate discursive bickering, try another fucking article.
Monkey
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think there is more to add to your donkey fetisch.
I'm flattered, but it's just not me.
Back to history, I never said China were heroes and historically good guys.
My point, even if exaggerated, is that you can't compare your own invasive nature with Chinas. Sure, China invaded people over 2000 years ago, and they have done so sporadically afterwards. UK's history consists of invasion after invasion, a never ending stream of oppressing peoples freedom, up until this day.
He’s back
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A little older, a little wiser, and defiantly a lot more clever,
[Ignore the age bit]
Yes it me.
1, imperialist wannabies, [argentina , perhaps
2, envy and jealousy , argentina [perhaps
3, loves losing [argentina perhaps]
4, loved shooting herself in the foot and being humiliated,
[definitely argentina ]
Justa cracker .
.
Guzz, was the donkey a male or female?
Jul 07th, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UK's history consists of invasion after invasion, a never ending stream of oppressing peoples freedom, up until this day.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[simply not true, and not provable]
But china, on the other had,
Forget the past, read the present,
And say,
The acquisitions, and territorial ambitions are not yet complete,
But if she can get enough silly nations to play her monopoly games,
Then, you can be very sure, that china will be on everybody’s minds in the coming years .
.
@ 36 Briton
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks to Americo Veapucio big balls I am Americana
whi or what is
Jul 07th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Americo Veapucio big balls ,
and what is Americana
you forget we dont live there, and so do not reckonised your words .
@126:
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guzz, get your facts straight. Do you really think that a long sequence of military victories would be enough to explain the impressive number of Anglophiles all over the world? The history of the British empire has as at least as many chapters of liberation as chapters of oppression. Those who admire it do so not only because the British were almost always the winning side but also because they were quite often the GOOD side. The world would be a much worse place today if either Philip II or Napoleon or Hitler had achieved their monstrously repulsive goals. And which navy do you think put and end to the Atlantic slavery trade? What else apart from blind hatred can you bring to this forum?
Get it straight yourself. If it is recognition you seek, that will be granted. Nobody questions the impact your proud old nation has had on humanity for the good causes. Yes, together with other nations, your nation has been the engine of progress and development. UK has also sent their men to die for just causes, in many occasions.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just as China has invaded all those nations history has forgotten about (thy she is written by the winner).
This does not change the fact that today, your approach to the world is imperialistic and invasive. China's is fair and peaceful, at least to the outside world (never been to China myself).
@131
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> who or what is Americo Veapucio big balls ,
Apparently, he was hung like a donkey.
@133
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Guzz what you need to understand is that Britain is an old imperial nation and probably always will be. China however is not peaceful, the state run/owned media might have you believe that everyone is happy with no democracy but more and more each year their are more people speaking out against the Communist rule, the treatment of Tibet etc. Just because something seems happy dory doesn't mean that it is. Oh and by the way I never posted that comment at 122, I think someone thinks its funny to post false comments.
> .... today, your approach to the world is imperialistic and invasive.
Jul 07th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here's one for you: The world's largest and least violent decolonisation exercise was implemented by which founding member of the United Nations, when?
> China's is fair and peaceful, at least to the outside world
Have you heard back from the Dalai Lama on this topic yet?
136
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0As Tibet officially is a part of China, your comment is redundant...
Falklands are officially a part of Great Britain, are you that stupid?
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@137Guzz,
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Tibet officially part of China”
You arrogant little snotgobbler, have you spoken to any Tibetans?
You are just so stupid with your infantile ravings.
l don't think anyone should answer this pathetic troll anymore.
Guzz
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are the Paracel islands part of China, or the Spratleys, or Taiwan. Do the Vietnamese consider China a fair and peaceful neighbour?
Put the donkey down and get googling!
139
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Check it up yourself, let me know if you find a source stating Tibet is a sovereign nation...
140
As with Tibet, Paracel Islands, the Spratleys and Taiwan are not sovereign nations.
Vietnam is one of the two sovereign nations China has invaded in the since the end of the 19th century.
Quite amusing that you state those islands criticizing China, as their status are fairly similar to the Falklands, with the exception of UK being the imposter.
UK's invasive and imperialistic behaviour against the outside world is no so much in the Falklands, as with China one could argue the islands being internal matters. No, it's more Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, as for today...
Completely different to the Falklands.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 01) historical indigenous population
2) historical sovereignty for centuries by current claimants
3) self determination is key
Other than that of course, just the same. More of your symbolic history, I guess, you know, the history that has no basis in historical fact.
Never mind..go back to the donkey.
Monkey
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fairly similar is not equal to quite the same.
Check your facts again, neither the Paracel Islands nor the Spratly Island have indigenous population, and thus, no “historical sovereignity for centuries”...
I told you already, I don't share your interests for animals.
141 Guzz
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tibet isn't an independent sovereign nation any more since the Chinese invaded them, chased their ruler into exile and subjugated them and their culture under an unwanted and hated foreign rule.
I'm not surprised that you're defending this; it's exactly what you'd like to do to us. In fact you already tried once.
Your 'imperialistic behaviour' argument just doesn't stand up does it?
How are any of those places part of a British Empire? There won't be any British troops in Afghanistan after 2014, and there aren't any in the other places now.
You, on the other hand, would colonise us against our will given half a chance. You're a bunch of shameless hypocrites.
Actually Taiwan and the Falklands are a pretty good comparison. Both have a much larger and highly aggressive mainland neighbour trying to subjugate them and both would have been wiped decades ago if they weren't under the military protection of another power.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also the PRC's claiming basically the entire South China Sea isn't much removed from Argentina's laughable claim to the almost the entire South Atlantic (except China has the local and global influence to potentially do it).
“Some Argentines without means do it, ... let's do it .. ”
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Maybe even you and I might do it ....”
Just happened to be playing Ella.
@108
Jul 08th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is not engaged in Imperialism in Iraq or Afghanistan. If ONLY the UK were involved it would be imperialism but you forget that other countries including the USA are/were involved in Iraq/Afghanistan. It could only be imperialism if the UK wished to assimulate Iraq and Afghanistan into the UK , which is not the case.
Personally I don't think the UK should be in Afghanistan, but as pointed out, we are not going to be there much longer,and the UK should be looking after the UK and our dependencies.
On the other hand Argentina has imperialist ambitions as it wishes to assimulate the Falkland Islands , South Georgia and part of Antarctica none of which it has proven to have clear cut legal cases for.
The UK by comparison has matured from its disgraceful ignorance of the Falkland Islanders rights in the 1970s (and unlke Argentinians who are too cowardly to acknowledge their countires wrongdoings, I as a brit recognise what mistakes my country has made) to honouring several constitutional changes made by the FIG which have given the Islands more, not less, autonomy from then UK government.
So to point out the bleedin obvious, Argentina seeks to be an imperial and colonialist power and the UK is giving the Falklnds more autonomy, therefore CEDING power wihich is the OPPOSITE of Imperialism.
Guys, give it up. You will never convince argentines that Europeans, the USA, or the UK are peaceful, freedom loving nations. You are all predators, with a substrate of ethnic/cultural supremacism.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No two ways about it.
Antarctica is ours however, as is southern Bolivia.
@27 How do you know who your ancestors were? Has your mother told you your father's name? Have you met your mother?
Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@31 Be proud! In terms of murders, you can put Hitler to shame.
@34 I'm sure we can reverse your birth defect!
@43 Have you noticed that Iran is “threatening” to close the Strait of Hormuz? Have you noticed that at least 50% of the Strait of Hormuz isn't Iranian? Have you got a little set of crystal balls that tells you how long after the Iranians carry out their threat, Iran will turn into a radioactive, glass-sided crater. Remember that the Americans have previously told Iran that attempted closure of the Strait is a “red line”.
@46 I've checked back. No-one but you mentioned “invasion”. So the Chinese probably won't “invade”. They'll just “take”. What sureties are you offering the Chinese for your loans? But don't be concerned. The argies will probably take your territory first!
@52 So pay us what you owe us. NOW!!
@55 “Best and fairest proposal would” be to put the barrel of a pistol in one of your ears, pull the trigger and see whether the bullet comes out of the other ear.
@65 At least they won't be recounting the 20th century argie version of “walking the plank”.
@88 The first thing you need to be able to do, Guzzle, is utter some “wise words”. I'll let you know when you do. Checked back. Hasn't happened yet! Trust me. I'll let you know if you do.
@94 That's “clever”. How to turn unjustifiable assertions into “tokens”. What an odious little person you are. From an odious little country.
@96 How considerate. And therefore a lie.
@98 Do tell us, Guzzle. When country A “buys” country B, what do you call it? When country C takes control of country A to redress unpaid debts, what do you call it?
@101 Bet this is the only place you can exercise your “freedom”.
@108 And “your lot” invaded whom?
@110 Prime examples being argieland and spain!
@118 Your “wet” dreams. From the sewer.
Now I need someone to post.
Conqueror is an insecure twat.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@148
Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you Sir are inconsistent, as I said in our last discussion it was us European “predators, with a substrate of ethnic/cultural supremacism.” that laid in place the language, political and cultural foundations that founded your country, show some respect to the countries like Britain and Spain otherwise you and your little hate filled rants wouldn't be here. Our “predator” nature put Argentine into existence, our stealing of the lands created the culture of South America and our removing of most of the way put in place the early population that now clings on to this national identity that we colonising European's created for you.
“Antarctica is ours however, as is southern Bolivia.” Why should it be? Britain has the first and oldest claim to parts of Antarctica as does France and many other countries, long before Argentine. Why does S. Bolivia belong to you? You spoke us Being predators and then conveniently forget that Argentine is the size it is today because it took land from Uruguay, Brazil etc. So expansionism and the predator nature does not apply to Argentina does it? Haven't you already got enough land? Because Britain gave back all of its empire to its inhabitants.
The people in Southern Bolivia, given the vote, would choose Argentina. Self-determination. It was a big sunday analysis last week. I didn't know that in Tarija this sentiment ran so strong.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I now officially advocate Argentina invade Tarija department from Bolivia.
As for Antarctica, claims are irrelevant. Self-determination applies, given Argentina has by far the largest population in the Antarctic peninusla (I don't claim ALL of antarctica, just a portion of the peninsula which would then be split with Chile), and the 2nd largest in the whole continent, the people there is all that matters.
@152
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for your first point I must apologise as I was not aware of this Argentine wanting population, why do they want to be Argentine? Is there some social reason for it perhaps? However you might want to explain this principle of self determination to your fellow commentators, they might understand it better coming from an Argentine and not a Brit.
Antartica however might be a different matter as compared to other places around the world most agree that Antarctica should not be owned by anyone, although Britain has the first claim I believe that Antarctica should be left alone for research and development not Human interference.
@152
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'As for Antarctica, claims are irrelevant. Self-determination applies,'
As for the Falkland Islands, the Argentine claims are irrelevant. Self Determination applies.
As for Antarctica, claims are relevant.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regardless of the nefarious uses the Argentine government might well make of any money anyone was stupid enough to give them, what sort of idiot would lend Argentina anything? They have an indisputable history of not paying back what they borrow, and are notorious for reneging on any deal they might agree to.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina does not recognize anyone' claims. However, since Argentina would only really want 1/4 of it's 'current claim”, that would leave the vast majority of Antarctica in the current status quo.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But no doubt Argentina should militarily occupy the northern portion of the peninsula some day. No one will remove us once there, as no nation will want to go to war over ice where no one lives (like the Falklands).
@157
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm afraid you cant do that, all the treaties of the UN and other bodies are signed up to by your country, and as a result you cant place military assets, no one can its against the law.
Treaties are meant to be broken, of course. Or more preffered revoked.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We simply withdraw and move in. I'm sick and tired of you foreigners using “treaties” to justify keeping Argentina from what is clearly a geographical right, just like the northern countries claim the north pole basin.
@159
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That may be your opinion sir but I doubt that your countries leadership ever will share it, much like our Lib/Dem conservative government won't give us a referendum on the EU. So I doubt the treaties of the Antarctic which are designed to protect it from Human activity will be revoked.
Some day we will revoke it. You can count on Argentina for that.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So. The old “implant a pirate population” trick, huh? The same one you tried in 1833 and 1982, only this time with the US, Russia, and the rest of the world in there too.
Do please go ahead.
@161
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really are you sure?, please inform me which political party in Argentine wishes to revoke treaties regarding the Antarctic? Who has it in their manifesto? Any way I wouldn't get your hopes up, all of your parties appear to be playing the nationalist card regarding the Falklands to win public support. I don't think the Antarctic peace treaties are in everyones mind right now anyway. It isn't exactly the major topic on peoples minds.
@162
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is, you would forcefully remove a population against their will.
What you are also saying is that might makes right.
Which in both cases means exactly what I have been arguing all along. None of you are worth of an ounce of respect. You would do to Argentina what you accuse us of doing to the Falklanders or our neighbors. Deny us self-determination, and deny us land simply by military bullying.
As I have been saying, leopards never change their stripes (Europeans).
@164
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But Mr TTT you said that Argentina should occupy the Northern peninsula of the Antarctic so “that no one will bother you” is this not using military might to establish your countries interests? Hypocritical?
Well, for one, there is no one there right?
Jul 08th, 2012 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Second, there are people there, most of them argentine. So I doubt you will hear many complaining about our military there (it already is there, though it is not really a military since Argentina has not invested in the miltary in 3 decades), except for the die-hard scientific kumbaya types.
@166
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well, for one, there is no one there right?” Actually there are Science stations and research operations conducted year round, resulting in a rotating permanent population.
So having a weak worn out military makes it OK? So what do you make of all these accusations of Britain militarising the South Atlantic with a far superior and more modern military? Im not be insulting I am just curious as to your position on the matter as someone who believes in self-determination.
When have I discussed Britain's military in the South Atlantic? Never.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not in all the months I have been here.
I may find it a quizzical anacronysm that the UK feels the urge to patrol the South Atlantic (who's there to patrol?) and dissipate their depleted treasury in some sort of “battleship sciamachy”, I do understand the UK keeping a dissuasive force on the Falklands, but for that one does not need to have ships all over the ocean.
The majority of the popuation in Antarctica is argentine, I repeat, except in the summer when the USA has more people.
I believe in self-determination for all. The brits only believe in self-determination for the brits and would deny argentines the same rights in a hearbeat, as we saw glaringly from Hans' comments.
@168
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“When have I discussed Britain's military in the South Atlantic? Never.
Not in all the months I have been here” I was trying to poke fun Mr TTT , we were on the subject of military presence and self determination in the South Atlantic, and I was just curious as to how you felt about the UK presence.
“Who's there to Patrol?” Er Argentina perhaps, just because your leaders dress your country up as different and non threatening towards the Falklands doesn't mean that we will trust you again, do you really think that it is easy to trust a nation of 40 million people who have already invaded you when you are only 3000 in number and that your only form of protection is 8000 miles away?
You just said our military is weak. So what's the fear. Can't have it both ways and again, I fail to see how patrolling around Antarctica serves the defense of the Falklands. The British have always been out to harm Argentina geopolitically, ever since the 1820s with their desires on Uruguay.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@170
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You just said our military is weak. So what's the fear.” Argentina had a weak military in 1982 and look at the damage that did, 2 destroyers sunk, 2 frigates sunk, 1 amphibious ship burnt to the waterline, the atlantic conveyer incinerated, 255 men killed etc etc etc. My next door neighbour could invade my home tomorrow and harm me and occupy my home for some time before someone arrives to throw him out. I'm safe once he's gone and that someone (UK) watches over me, however do I remove the chain lock on my door to keep him away?, do I turn of the house alarm because my next door neighbour is weak? NO I keep the security in place and the next door neighbour will have to be nice to me to regain my trust, however this is almost impossible due to the shook of the events combined with the continued disrespect and threats thrown my way not to mention a blockade as well. So while this goes on the military presence of the UK will remain. Oh and by the way we don't patrol Antarctica for geopolitical reasons, we have the Icebreaker HMS Protector which performs a number of roles while primarily serving international research efforts in the Antarctic. Nothing to do with Argentina at all.
Yes, but I have never insistently complained about your military, especially in the Falklands. There are reasons any sensible person can understand why you are there.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just wish my government had more foresight and built a dissuasive system to repel any invasion of Argentine territory. I have no doubt that in the next 50 years someone will try to invade us. We need all the chemical, biological deterrents to repel it, perhaps even some pulse weaponry to scramble electronics.
@172
Jul 08th, 2012 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yes, but I have never insistently complained about your military, especially in the Falklands. There are reasons any sensible person can understand why you are there. ” I never said that you did but your country, its leaders and its commentators have been.
Trust me My friend I don't wish to brag but I know my stuff as regards history and military aspects, and I can assure you that no one will try to invade you.
“dissuasive system” What kind? Missile batteries along the cost and Argentina's borders? possible ground to and air and ground to missiles-quite a price tag.
“We need all the chemical, biological deterrents to repel it, perhaps even some pulse weaponry to scramble electronics.” as your country and the vast majority have signed up to all the various treaties that prevent the use of biological warfare I doubt that you will, plus the costs would be extreme. Not mention that any invader would use Biological weapons in retaliation.
“Pulse weaponry?” EMPs are effective however procuring it as some form of weapon is almost impossible as it usually results in the disabling of your electronically systems as well.
The only thing you should buy to keep away a foreign invader would be nuclear weapons. No country in history that has possessed them, has ever been invaded or warred against by another nuclear nation, however development would take years as it is complex plus buying second hand ones now is impossible. The costs would be phenomenal and Argentina is not only seriously behind but has also signed up to the convention that prohibits Nukes in LatAm, it would probably start a regional arms in Latam as well. So I doubt anything you have said will happen as Argentina does not have the money, time, expertise or will to beef itself up like that.
@164 TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed I would remove a population of Argentine invaders against their will, tiresome repetitive necessity though it may be..
But I really do enjoy your nostalgia for the imperial age. I guess the reason that you hanker so much to recreate the 19th century is that you weren't around for the seminal events of the 20th?
None of those treaties apply for self-defense and especially self-preservation. I'm not allowed to use my butcher knife to go ask for money at the bank, but if someone breaks into my home then I have that right if I'm threatened.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are many countries that are a threat to Argentina, yours included.
We don't need nukes or missiles, that would only serve offensive purposes. We simply need something defensive, to repel a task force that necessarily would need to come from the sea to invade, and would land at a certain and specific geographic point. You just wipe out that combatant at that entry point.
Of course, any invader will chose to attack from the air first, so at that point some SAM system for the cities would be needed. Not cheap but not impossible though certainly long term. So better start now.
I'm glad you disrespect Argentina so much. One day a government with real guts will come in, however.
@150 Thank you, TiT. The very first time you've been useful! Here is a “new” extrapolation. How to prove yourself to be a total, uneducated, desperate twat. How to show that a S. Am. is a sh*te. How to demonstrate that invasive S. Am. occupants haven't progressed beyond the 18th century. Just look at TiT. And ask the question: A tit by any other name?
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@157 But we Britons like killing turds. And argies ARE turds.
@159 And I'm sick and tired of YOU. So I vote we exterminate you lot like the vermin you are.
@164 No “population” involved. Just vermin. Once vermin in Antarctica exterminated, follow the trail back and exterminate the source.
@172 And what “Argentine territory” would that be? Please don't be afraid. We have no interest in “invading” you. In due course, when our “government” recognises that we are right and they are wrong, we will be popping down and annihilating you. You would not believe how I am looking forward to TV pictures of you being hunted down and exterminated. The new video bestsellers “ArgieHunt”, “ArgieKill” and “ArgieScum: Extinction”. Just to back up the new British-inspired colonial government policy of beheading, emasculating and female genital removal. By axe.
Don't mind us. We can kill the lot of you whenever we want. And guess what? We've let the wops off, for now. We've let the krauts off, for now. We're not letting you off. Not now, not ever. Make no mistake, you're already dead. We're just taking our time!
@176
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With what? It's one thing to take on an army, another to wipe out a whole country. You have neither the means, nor the hardware, nor the money. You can't pay your doctors and police officers you are talking about letting people off. You dear.
No body owns Antarctica,
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A few have claims,
But those claims will in the future be utterly useless unless you can back it up, and defend what you have,
For if it is proved, that massive wealth and minerals ect ect , are truly there,
Then other predators will descend on the Antarctic,
And they may not be as friendly as us .??
.
@178
Jul 08th, 2012 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like the perfect excuse for DNA warfare. Kill the “predators” off before they kill you.
And DNA research is not that expensive. Something Argentina should consider.
You know as well as I do,
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When it comes to profit, money , power , and influence,
There are many many predators around,
That will fight for the spoils,
Eye just hope Antarctica is not the battle ground,
.
175@
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everything you just said MR TTT was rather odd missiles aren't offensive they are also defensive how do you stop an invading force without sinking their ships and shooting down their planes? How about building a big wall around Argentina? No the invaders would shoot through it. As for your over points I obviously can't convince you that Argentina can't and wont ever do the things you hope it will.
“I'm glad you disrespect Argentina so much. One day a government with real guts will come in, however.” I meant no disrespect to Argentine I merely pointed out a fact that Argentine does not have the time, money or expertise to embark on a huge defensive military build up when no one will attack you, and most importantly the lack of will power and distrust of the Argentine armed forces will always impede any attempts to build up.
You said that Britain was a threat to you, can you please elaborate? I can ensure you Britain would never invade a country like Argentine. What would be the point? The only way something like that would happen is if Argentine attacks the Falklands, in which case British SSN's would use tomahawks to destroy Argentine's military installations. Airfields, army/naval bases etc. We would do this to crush any threat to the islands, not as a threat or build up to an invasion.
Your fears are unjustified and are rather pathetic, your country will never attack the islands again as it would lose again plus international support would be against them. So you have nothing to fear Mr TTT.
I'd say that's something a good targeted virus can take care of. For example, a virus that only kills people that consume corn-based sugars instead of cane sugar.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since the former is essential for northern nations that can't grow sugar cane, that is a great entry point to decimate predators from that end.
J.A.ROBERTS
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you wasting time writing similar english incoherent comments.?
I know you are melancholic/moody person .,go out take a fresh air .,dont incise these distant themes for you.
@181
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What makes you so sure? Wasn't Argentina as wealthy as the UK or wealthier than Europe about 70 years ago? If there is one country that is not considered '1st world' that could actually accumulate enough wealth to do those things it would be Argentina, no other has actually done it in the past. This is why I like the fact everyone here disrespects us as people.
Things in a country can change must faster than people believe. But I shall leave your supercilious disdain of us at that.
Britain is a threat based on its track record of the past 300 years, as is Spain, France, Germany, etc. To ignore this would make me a microcephalic lout.
And it is due to this basic disrespect of us that I don't want my country to ever be friendly to the Europeans.
@182
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'd say that's something a good targeted virus can take care of. For example, a virus that only kills people that consume corn-based sugars instead of cane sugar.” “Since the former is essential for northern nations that can't grow sugar cane, that is a great entry point to decimate predators from that end.” -------------You keep mentioning these predator nations but you fail to realise that no one is going to attack you! Grow up!
As for what Conqueror said about “Destroying Argentine” and you are“already dead”, he was referring (while a little mad) to Britain’s Vanguard class SSBM’s which carry Britain’s Nuclear deterrent on board in Trident intercontinental ballistic missiles. One missile would be enough to eradicate a country like Argentine as it would carry up to six or more warheads inside it. The missile once in range would separate and the 6+ warheads inside would come down on the most densely populated regions of the country. Effectively destroying it and any military threat. OK Conquerer is a bit mad but I believe thats what he was referring to. At this point invasion would be unnecessary as about a quarter or more of Argentina’s population would be dead or dying from the six or more blast’s and radiation poisoning. However Argentine is no threat to the UK to actually warrant a Nuclear Strike. Only conventional warfare would be used against Argentine and that would only happen if you attacked the Falklands, which you wont because you can't. So don't worry about the UK we wont attack you, we have nothing to gain and you wont attack the Falklands will you? So no worries Mr TTT!
TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is a danger to know one and you are well aware if this,
The fact is, Argentina is a danger to whom ever it chooses to be a danger to,
And if she chooses not to be a danger to anyone, then there will be no dangers in south America,
But to be fair, Argentina has been the only danger to another South American territory in the past 30 years, unless you can prove otherwise,
As for chemical weapons, most are banned, and no one today, unless you are a rouge nation or terrorist group, would ever use it, for fear of retaliation,
So no viruses either,
Next idea of aggression.
.
@186
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uhhm... when you are being invaded and killed, what retaliation is someone going to wait for? In a state of self-preservation, you use ALL weapons at your disposal.
If they UK was invaded tomorrow by a coalition of China, India, and Rusia, and the USA stayed put, are you telling me if troops were marching and 50 kilometers from Buckingham Palace and threatening decapitation of all, the UK would not use nukes on those countries even if they had not used any to that point?
TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha ha, I nearly fell of my seat,
You have a great imagination,
It just won’t happen,
The relationship between certain countries and history are defined,
Argentina on the other hand is a totally different kettle of fish,
It is argentina, in this instant and this part of the world,, that is the aggressive one,
So if in theory if one was invaded, and that invaded country [would] use all weapons at its disposal to either defend or attack,
[On this point only you may be correct]
Except that it would be argentina [the aggressor]
And the Falklands the [invaded, ]
And Great Britain the defender, who would retaliate,
Simple is it not,
Even in theory
.
@184
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your mad TTT, we aren’t going to invade you!!!! You have nothing to offer us and invasions of other countries are unpopular in the world as you know. Grow up!
“And it is due to this basic disrespect of us that I don't want my country to ever be friendly to the Europeans.” As I said in my other comments, you can hate us all you want but while you speak our Languages and live/work etc. In a country created by European colonialism you should really show some respect and remember that the only people entitled to complain about Europe and our colonialism are the natives not people who aren't meant to be there unless we came along. Just remember that our expansionism, imperialism and colonialism put you country in existence.
@186
“If they UK was invaded tomorrow by a coalition of China, India, and Rusia, and the USA stayed put, are you telling me if troops were marching and 50 kilometers from Buckingham Palace and threatening decapitation of all, the UK would not use nukes on those countries even if they had not used any to that point?”
@187
OK first of all why would India attack us? Despite what you think we are close Friends and always will be. Secondly what the hell is China and Russia going to do to invade us? How in the name of Christ will they get here? They would need aircraft to dominate the skies and currently they only have 1 serviceable Aircraft carrier between them.And if the russians tried to fly their aircraft all the way here they would be low and fuel and carrying limited armament and would have to deal with superior Typhoon interceptors and Britain's SAM sites. The RAF Tornados/Typhoons and Army Apaches would sink any troop transports and landing craft before they got close. aYou need to understand military tactics to realise that invading an island nation of such size and power would be hopeless, many have tried all have failed. Oh and in your scenario they are 50 km form BP, well as I said it wont happen and so your scenario is pointless.
@186
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you are saying just 6 (six) nukes would take care of Argentina... hmmm, and we are about about 10 times less populationally dense than the UK.
So if Argentina just built 6 nukes, what would happen if...
(and we woudn't even need conventional delivery systems if the design was compact enough).
If a country 20 times poorer than us (Pakistan), could build them... and remember Argentina was 3/4 of the way there in the early 1980s. So the existing know-how plus the fact that 10-20 warheads would be not that expensive...
I don't believe in nukes, but given how nuclear countries flaunt their destructive capabilities I would not be opposed to Argentina having them. I said it myself here before, all of you say it is too expensive but that you just using a weak argument because you know it can be done by a country like Argentina. If it almost did in 1983...
And as I also said, we woudn't need 10k warheads. Just 20-30 since that would take care of 99% of the population of any country that is more than 50% urbanized.
Not expensive at all, we should get started!
144
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When did I defend the Chinese behaviour againt Tibet? I merely stated the fact...
147
The current empire is not about single nations, but an alliance of nations gathered to impose their political and economical will on sovereign nations
Conq
Me odious? Meeeeeh....
@190
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”If a country 20 times poorer than us (Pakistan), could build them... and remember Argentina was 3/4 of the way there in the early 1980s. So the existing know-how plus the fact that 10-20 warheads would be not that expensive... “
I dont doubt that Argentina couldn't do it, it would but like I said, it would be expensive, time consuming and unnecessary plus their is no will for it. As regards the six nukes each produces a yield about 100 times greater then Hiroshima so you can imagine the damage. Argentina or any other country of similar size would be crippled and defenceless if such an event happened.
”I don't believe in nukes, “ But you believe its Ok to have biological weapons like mustard gas to burn soldiers eyes out, and to vomit their lungs out? Nice moral compass there TTT.
”Not expensive at all, we should get started!” I wont happen as you know.
@192
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you like Argentina defenless huh? Of course, you don't live in Argentina.
Well, I don't.
As for “yield”, I'm no dummy: yield does not equal actualy TNT destructiveness.
I could build a nuke 2 cm across with a yield '10,000 times that of Hiroshima', but I would probably destroy only a small neighborhood.
Yield is code word for miniatuization. So your weapons may yield 100 the denotating power, but they are much smaller. And especially if they are missile delivered, as there is a threshhold beyond which more yield and size is impracticable.
So a nuke in your arsenal with 100 the yield may in fact only do slightly more damage than a hiroshima bomb, which was far bulkier with much more fissile material.
TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[186]
That’s me by the way,
And I did not say a thing about nukies,
Or [6]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
But allow me, and im no expert at all, on nukes.
If im correct, the initial explosion would kill destroy and evaporate most things and humans animals ect ect , within abt 10-20 miles from the blast point,
You would get about 50% death and destruction up to say 30-40 miles,
And very high winds and minor damage up to and beyond 50 miles from blast point, followed by radiation fall out, that would last for weeks and poss. months, and the after effects could well last years,
Most likely points of destruction at blast point would be,
Military targets first,
Army, navy and air force bases, missile silos and sites,
Communication centres, seat of government,
And if required or necessary [cities]
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Now I may very well be wrong and of target, others will tell me,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Having them is not the problem,
Using them is not the problem,
[Its who has them][And who is willing to use them]
And if one is considered to be of a nervous dispossion, then the chances are, that that person would be whacked, before he either obtained them, or was able to use them,
That’s just my opinion .
.
Anyone could build a nuke... All you need to do is to get your hands on some U-235 (Sudan has some) and enrich it to about 5% if you want to use it for fuel in an atomic reactor, and some 20-25% if youare to use it for a bomb.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason the nukes of today are so much stronger than those who murdered the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, is because they are hydrogen bombs, hydrogen containing enormous amounts of energy, hence it's useful for killing, but not so much for engines (the H2 reacts with O2 and forms water during the combusion)
guz
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your parachute jump from the aeroplane was perfect,
Then you go and spoil it all, by failing to open your chute.
And the results were sadly inevitable, was it not .
briton
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I tend to understand you posts, but this time my wits failed me...
Nuclear weapons worthless,wont do .
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@193
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So a nuke in your arsenal with 100 the yield may in fact only do slightly more damage than a hiroshima bomb, which was far bulkier with much more fissile material.”
Heres a link to better explain what I mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield
You didn't reply to my comment 189 by the way.
You started off ok,
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0About nukies weapons,
We know terrorist are trying to build a [dirty bombe]
Then went of the rails, with, murdering people,
Sadly war is war.
Right or wrong, we should learn from history,
Many would not agree it was murder, but a necessity.
To stop further slaughter,
But that’s another story.
Murdering thousands of civilians in order to avoid further slaughtering.... of whom????
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Japan had basically already lost the war when the bombs dropped, all its allied had been defeated, and USA had effectively driven them back home to Japan from practically whole Pacific...
They just refused to surrender, and I will not buy the lie that Japan would've invaded USA had they not dropped the bombs.
@199
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So? It is as said, more yield is not necessarily more destructive, because you have to take into account how much reactive material is put in. You see there that while 100 times may sound impressive, the radii of destruction is not significantly bigger. Only with much bigger bombs does that change, and at that point it proves impractical for things like submarine launched missiles.
The nuke the UK and France are OK but not hundreds of times more destructive than Hiroshima. They are nukes nevertheless, and it sures does make you feel safer doesn't it.
Just 20 or so should be enough for us, only to be used in the event troops are marching on Buenos Aires, as a partying gift to the invading nation. I would rather just mustard gas and anthrax the invading forces.
Guzz, oh you are stupid!! The US dropped the bombs to end the war and to save the lives of American servicemen who would have had to fight a longer battle on Japanese soil. I don't think they ever made that many excuses for it, it definitely was not to save any Japanese lives.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and I will not buy the lie that Japan would've invaded USA ,,,,
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0who told you this,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
it was, as stated to save American lives,
japan still had at least a million men under arms, were fanaticle, and defending there homeland,
hundreds of thousands of american lives may have been wasted,
it was an american desision,
,,,,,
that is not assined to history to debate .
@202
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So? It is as said, more yield is not necessarily more destructive, because you have to take into account how much reactive material is put in. You see there that while 100 times may sound impressive, the radii of destruction is not significantly bigger. Only with much bigger bombs does that change, and at that point it proves impractical for things like submarine launched missiles. ”
---Fine whatever don't bother listening.---
“The nuke the UK and France are OK but not hundreds of times more destructive than Hiroshima. They are nukes nevertheless, and it sures does make you feel safer doesn't it.” Yeah I do feel a lot safer in the knowledge that any aggressor against the UK will have to take in account all of the assets of that country.
“Just 20 or so should be enough for us, only to be used in the event troops are marching on Buenos Aires, as a partying gift to the invading nation. I would rather just mustard gas and anthrax the invading forces.” First of all as I said Argentine will never get the bomb. Secondly no one is going to invade you and thirdly Mustard gas/ Anthrax is banned by every country on earth with the odd exception. The damages of it are so great that any country using it would be condemned not to mention that they would retaliate, in full force.
By the way Mr TTT who do you actually think will invade you and for what reason?, as you sound as if you have built a bomb shelter already. Oh and also my comment no 189 was not answered, as I would like to ask why would India attack the UK?
Erhmm... India, I just picked a country at random, how about that.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say never, I say never say never. The more I meet people like you the more I hope we do get weapons of mass destruction, of any kind, just to piss you people off.
I love your reasoning: the UK invades Argentina, we use mustard and anthrax to repel you (since we were banned by you from getting nukes), and WE ARE the violators!
This is typical anglo logic at its best.
And please spare me the parrot, “UK is not going to invade”, you merely are using that as a sidestep to refuse to answer why would Argentina be at fault for using mustard gas when you are the agressor on our soil. So in your world, the person acting in self-defense kills the murderer and they are the agressors.
Lovely.
We don't trust the UK, have no reason to, simple as that there is no other explanation necessary, expect that you are part of Europe and your history precedes you.
@206
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I hope we do get weapons of mass destruction, of any kind, just to piss you people off.” Why would it piss me off? I have Russia and the French Republic in rather close proximity to me and they have nukes. Im not worries or pissed off. I only said that Argentine will never get them-fact.
”I love your reasoning: the UK invades Argentina, we use mustard and anthrax to repel you (since we were banned by you from getting nukes), and WE ARE the violators!“ ”This is typical anglo logic at its best.“ I never said that its wrong to use biological weapons I pointed out that Argentine will never get or use them and will never be invaded-fact.
”And please spare me the parrot, “UK is not going to invade”, you merely are using that as a sidestep to refuse to answer why would Argentina be at fault for using mustard gas when you are the agressor on our soil. So in your world, the person acting in self-defense kills the murderer and they are the agressors.“ I never said that ever and you know it, I pointed out that the moral argument internationally and internally would be against Argentine getting gas in the first place but not necessarily using it. Self defence is fine and I have no problem with it, but the point still stands Argentine wont be invaded and so wont get biological weapons and wont violate the UN treaties either.
” We don't trust the UK, have no reason to, simple as that there is no other explanation necessary, expect that you are part of Europe and your history precedes you.” Once again you did not answer my question and you simply labeled insults without evidence from the present history will teach you that lands occupied by Britain had something to offer, and what does Argentine offer the UK in the modern world when invading a stable democracy of peace is condemned. What Provocation is required for invasion.
I will ask again who would invade Argentine, destroy your military, occupy the lands etc, and WHY?
2 Atomic bombs killing who knows how many innocent civilians...
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not choose the most simple of solutions and just go home? they were already beaten, so were their allies, and the civilians wouldn't have to pay the price
Argentina will get weapons of mass destruction, we just need a junta with balls. Not to invade others, but just to mind its own business and leave a legacy of a country that can if not defend itself, at least cause bane and ruin to any potentiala agressor.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For all your “it won't happen”, you know well there is no way of predicting the future, especially in a country like Argentina that has shown the balls to take on the world (in trade for example), or a superior enemy (the UK), before. So we do have a history of doing the unexpected. Don't be so confident of your predictions.
The UK history against other countries is not an insult, even though it is so morally poor I can use it as such. Argentina has resources and QUITE A FEW contributors here, from several nations not just the UK, have openly advocated an invation of use to get a hold of them. You honestly think at least 50 nations on this planet don't have plans against us in some file cabinet? Do you think they don't know about our resources.
We have plenty of reasons to acquire weapons, now that I think of it. We were even attacked by terrorist proxies of Iran. There are several reasons Argentina needs WMDs.
The UK could tomorrow fall to the BNP, totally possible scenario. And even if not, the UK would not be concerned about international condemnation, never has.
Yet again you fall over the same bullshit reasoning, if I cant convince you then fine, but please listen, “History precedes you” is what you said, and history has taught us that lands, occupied by European powers had something to offer. However this is irrelevant as the modern world has changed no longer can countries invade territories and get away with it, Iraq and Afghanistan proved that. The UK would not invade Argentina even if it had all the gold, diamonds and oil in the world. You need to wake up to the modern world Mr TTT and realise that the old imperial powers are gone and the British empire was the last empire to exist 1707-1997 RIP. Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded for reasons to liberate not to occupy indefinitely and although and the majority of people were against the wars I am pleased that we have at least got rid of tyrants/Taliban etc. However I wish the wars never happened. The last true imperial conflict was Suez were we tried to justify conquering what had been bought/sold legally and it failed. You are not going to be invaded by us we don't have the stomach for true conquest as a nation anymore, and you have nothing to offer us that we don’t already have. Grow up and stop acting as if it is the 1700’s its 2012 and colonialism is long gone. And if you think that we are still going to invade, the arm yourself all you like cause you'll be waiting a while.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh and by the way Britain will not fall to the BNP, they were shouted about in the papers buy the labour party dick heads and their votes increased, and when it went quite they were crushed at the local council elections. The only party that has a real chance of coming to power other then those conservative and labour people is UKIP, I hope!
“concerned about international condemnation, never has.” Yeah thats why our invasion of Suez went from military success to Political disaster and we ran off as quickly as possible.
Ok, if not Britain (just for the sake of this argument), a resurging “Spain” wanting to retake lost possessions. Or a crazy Brazilian take-over by a coup. Or Iran, etc, etc, etc.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We still need'em.
What's the difference for the invaded nation if you stay or leave?
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll tell you, if you stay, you will take their resources until they kick you out.
If you leave, you take the resources with you...
@211
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Ok, if not Britain (just for the sake of this argument), a resurging “Spain” wanting to retake lost possessions. Or a crazy Brazilian take-over by a coup. Or Iran, etc, etc, etc. “
”We still need'em.”
Fine arm away but I think I can speak for my Spanish Brothers and sisters when I say that they are in the same boat as us, regarding colonialism, the Spanish were removed by force and I doubt they will try it again its 2012 after all not 1800-1820.
As for Brazil, yet again why? The only reason I can think off is them wanting to reclaim the land they lost about 150+ years ago, but as I said I highly doubt it.
But if you wont listen then fine arm away get all the biological weapons and defensive systems you need, But as I said you will be waiting for a while.
@213
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So why don't you guys get rid of your nukes, same for the ruskies, sinos, frogs, and septics?
It's 2012, countries don't invade each other anymore.
@214
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So why don't you guys get rid of your nukes, same for the ruskies, sinos, frogs, and septics?” I was hoping you would ask Mr TTT, I'm afraid it is a rather sad story especially for us Brits and the French. Although the UK has enemies and areas that would warrant wanting Nuclear defence like N.Korea, Iran etc. However you need to think Tactically about this the most powerful countries in the World, US/China/UK/France/Russia. having Nukes has meant that conflict numbers have reduced dramatically and they have prevented actual wars between us both Nuclear andConventional. So although they make the world safer they carry a moral and economical burden as well, we are despised by others for having them and some of our own people hate us for it and the price tags go into the Billions/hundreds of Billions- thats the sad story its a burden on us.
Oh by the way who are the “septics”? I haven't hard that term before.
@214 Truth_Telling_Troll 'It's 2012, countries don't invade each other anymore.' What a naive chap you are. Your countries behaviour is a key warning, that global territorial disputes are far from over. With these types of disputes, the threat of invasion will always be present.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@215
Jul 08th, 2012 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said just as much some time ago, that the frogs and rostbifs still have nukes because of penis insecurity (my exact words). You seem to confirm this. Since in any event that you ditched them the USA would use theirs probably.
But then again, why do they have them? I don't buy the moral burden, the economic burden perhaps so.
My ideal Argentina would be one that sealed its borders, built some form of WMD deterrent, declared a completely isoliationist policy, ended all alliances and treaties, and only traded goods and services with other countries. No friendly relations with any foreign nation, no hostile relations. Leave places like the Falklands alone.
Most people would welcome my version.
217
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's a problem with that version, TTT.
You would need many nations like that in order to trade at all, as trade is like a tango and you can't just dance when you want...
@217
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”of penis insecurity (my exact words), But then again, why do they have them? I don't buy the moral burden, the economic burden perhaps so.“
It isn't penis insecurity Mr TTT: firstly for reasons I mentioned in comment 215, and secondly it is symbol of power after us British and the French and the Russians lost our Empires we had to have something that would symbolise us on the world stage-Nuclear weapons fit this demand. Its not penis envy/or syndrome its sorrow at the lost of what took us hundreds of years to build. However if the reasons I mentioned in @215 no longer applied we would all probably keep them for the second reasons I just mentioned.
”My ideal Argentina would be one that sealed its borders, built some form of WMD deterrent, declared a completely isoliationist policy, ended all alliances and treaties, and only traded goods and services with other countries. No friendly relations with any foreign nation, no hostile relations. Leave places like the Falklands alone.“ You just asked me what the point was of Britain having Nukes and then you say that you want Argentine to have them. You can try isolationism but it wont work not in the modern world, Britain went through the last true phase of this between 1815-1914 ”splendid isolationism“ and ”pax Britannia“ kept us above everyone else. But in the modern age of Computers/WWW, the motor vehicle, high speed travel, open borders, cheap travel etc mean that your dream will never come true, sad really I wouldnt mind living through Pax britannia again 99 years of absolute British dominance and independence, brings a tear to the eye.
Oh by the way again what dies ”Septic” mean in relation to the nuclear powers?
Then Peru should have nukes... and Greece, Iran, Egypt and Mexico...
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mongolia too, such should Turkey...
All fallen empires...
Septics are British slang for yanks.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said WMDs, not necessarily nukes. I'd be OK with a few tons of Anthrax and some batches of resequenced small pox.
The UK may not be able to survive isolationism because it is in Europe and too interconnected. Argentina is very isolated from the world, in fact one of the most isolated nations in trade, and certainly geographically. It would not be a big stretch to be completely isolated and we have enough basic resources to not need anyone else (except for those who want Ipads, before yankeeboy laments)
TTT
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're right about one thing. With your 19th century imperialist attitudes, your 1930s political culture, your paranoia, europhobia, anglophobia, and massive inferiority complex, a nuclear armed Argentina is quite a scary prospect. I mean, there are enough rogue states already.
”It would not be a big stretch to be completely isolated and we have enough basic resources to not need anyone else (except for those who want Ipads, before yankeeboy laments)”
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except it would be. Think how many different raw materials you need to maintain a modern technological civilisation. If you want to live in a society with modern cars and computers and medical equipment you need a ready supply of at least two-thirds of the periodic table. The only nations with the land area to potentially claim this are Russia and China. And then even the Chinese shop abroad for some of the rare earth minerals they need to make some electronic gear.
Yeah, if you live in a country with a ready supply of iron, tin, a couple of other random metals and fossil fuels (like some conglomeration of south american countries) you can maintain a steady mid-19th century level of technology without any interaction with the outside world but you'll never really get beyond that.
@221
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Slang for Yanks? Really i Didn't know that.
I know you said WMD's I just used nukes as an example, as regards isolationism it could sort of work in Argentina's case but for the world powers UK/US/France/Russia/China and the middle powers its impossible. Argentine could sort of be isolated as regards importing foods and natural resources but your government doesn't appear to pick up on that. As for other items thats were isolationism would fail as Argentine exports many things for day to day use but as I said food wise Argentina could become the food basket of the Americas' muck like Kenya was the food basket of Africa while under British rule.
@222
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't forget yank-bashing.
@223
Argentina has not exploited 99% of its mineral potential.
@224
I agree most countries are too intercontected. Argentina has done a good job disconnecting from the world's financial system and lately from the trade system. It was already politically isolated and yet look we still manage.
I didn't say total isolationism, we should still trade (barter) for goods. That's it. The rest of the world is not our friend, never has and never will be. Better leave them be.
Between Guzz and Tobias, they have successfully turned the thread away from its original path. Congratulations, you have trolled Conor all the way from MPs voting against aid for Argentina to weapons of mass destruction.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shame on you Conor for allowing yourself to be so easily trolled and over so many comments!!!
@226
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What can I say Mr TTT/Tobias does provide a stimulating and interesting debate whats wrong with that?, he's a smart individual and as a result I respect him much like I respect you Mr Simon, Guzz however is a lunatic.
Simon
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let people discuss what they want, don't read if you don't find it interesting...
@226
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you kidding? TTT at least now stands unmasked as an MI6 disinformation campaign, designed to discredit the Republic of Argentina by making it look foolish. Those Brits are devious as they as come, but they can't fool me.
And as for donkeys ...
229
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahaha!!!
That's pure honesty... One would think you are Scandinavian :)
Just because I add color to my statements simply to stimulate debate does not yield the conspiracy theories of mister Hans.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yet he blasts me for “conspiracy” theorizing about the UK and Europe, whose history gives me all the right to wish for WMDs.
I can't speak for you TTT,but I surely want no WMD's whatsoever in SA. We need to unite, finish the work of San Martin, Bolivar and our own Artigas.
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pueblo unido, my friend. This will be the last stance, and tomorrow is near.
@232
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first step would be annexation of Uruguay into Argentina, I mean if we are going to unite it has to start somewhere... down with that? :)
@232
Jul 08th, 2012 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Unite SA”? You will need the support of all the people and that wont happen. “Finish the work” Finish what work Mr Guzz?
South America was never united. It is over twice the size of the USA, or in other words the size of North America. Are Mexico, United States, and Canada United?
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0That does not mean we are disunited. We are certainly far more civilized than the European continent has been in the past 200 years, on the aggregate.
@235
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't mean united as everyone is happy together I meant united as a country. Thats what Guzz was talking about. The Republic of Latin America or something along those lines. As for European unity, as a continent we still kind off hate each other in a sticking to the old habits way, but we all get along, but trying to unite us as the EU wants to do would be impossible hence the reason why the EU is falling apart thank god!
Cool... so when do we in Argentina get to enjoy anothe world war? This time we'll have the internet to watch as you bloop each other asunder.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@237
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Cool... so when do we in Argentina get to enjoy anothe world war? This time we'll have the internet to watch as you bloop each other asunder.” Whats that supposed to mean? All out war between European nations is impossible now, I was just registering the general discontent that will see the death of the EU, and good riddance to it!
You know that in life, when the pendulum is swung too far to one direction (EU superstate), if that fails it will inevitably swing too far to the other end...
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0If not war, I certainly expect to see in the event of a EU break-up and the financial collapse it would bring (even to the UK), at least the following new nations:
Catalonia
Lombady-Piedmont-Tuscana
Euskera
Scotland
Pays L'anguedoc
Bayern
Lappland
Wales (though more unlikely)
Valencia (though more unlikely)
Latium (though more unlikely)
Baden-Wuttenberg (though more unlikely)
Faroe Islands
Crete
Northern Cyprus
East Romania
@239
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Eh....very unlikely for the UK to break up of any thing it would further unify the country, as for the rest of the mentioned states I cant really speak for them however I very much doubt any break ups, the death of the EU would in most cases strengthen unionism. Belgium is more likely to break up then the UK or Romania or Cyprus.
I didn't include Belgium because I think that would happen regardless.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0It be interesting to see how the USA, Europe, Mexico, Russia, Brazil break-up, as all those nation have separatit movements.
Absolutely no region or province in Argentina has had formal secession movements in 160 years to the day in 2013.
@241
Jul 09th, 2012 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hmm...well the problem with the Welsh and Scottish nationalists is that they are a one trick horse, the Welsh Plaid Cymru party were in a coalition in the Welsh assembly with Labour however at the Assembly and Council elections in 2011/12 they were decimated with the unionists making gains across the board, in Scotland although the SNP control the assembly they only have 6 MP's while the unionists have the other 50 or so. And the councils are dominated with the SNP being the largest but the unionists have the most seats between them. Plus all the opinion polls for Scottish independence have been against the idea even when the SNP were at peak popularity. There isn't a separation movement in England and here in Northern Ireland the vote is split: 55% for the unionists and 45% for the Nationalists(Irish Republicans) funny thing is that this Status quo in NI has been in place for 60+ years. So I'm quite sure the UK will be fine, but poor Belgium....well I don't really like Belgium so no loss!
Conor @ 24 - What's Uruguayan history got to do with it? Guzz is not a Uruguayan.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@224 TiT is showing his lack of worldliness yet again... Its Australian slang not UK slang..... and it's 'Seppo'..... which comes from 'Septic Tank' = Yank.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0He needs to update his 'Boy's Own Book of Slang'
@243
Jul 09th, 2012 - 05:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Really why do you say that? He told me he was, iv'e only been on this site a short time so I don't really know the history of the commentators here.
@guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 06:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0What does it feel like to be such a loser? I mean, really, trying to compare us to china in terms of conquest. I really enjoyed watchiung you thrash about trying to say “but you were worse, really”..............
All of their neighbours are getting very nervous due to their increasing belligerence and general military buildup.
We did'nt atom bomb the Japanese, that was the USA, pratt.
Besides, we were at war with Japan, and you just demonstrated your lack of military history by playing the “innocent japs were about to give up” card.
You proboably don't know that the Japanese militarists tried to stage a coup to keep the war going even after the atomic raids. Or that the entry of the Soviet Union into the war in the east, when the Soviet army smashed the Kwantung army in a blitzkrieg campaign, wirghed heavily on their decision to surrender.
You also fail to mention that if we had to invade Japan, we and the yanks would have lost HUNDREDS of thousands of extra dead (Japans toll would have been even higher), or that the Japs were going to execute every prisoner they had, man , woman and child when the invasion came.
WTF has this to do with the Falklands anyway? Just shows you can't really make a dent in our arguments that we have a superior claim.
I have backed the TPA proposal to deny Argentina loans, I don't believe in giving our enemies one penny of our money.
Go away and be poor Argentina.
It seems a no brainer to stop Argentina receiving money for its ridiculous, aggressive and anti-human rights behavior. Argentina is acting in a anarchic and colonist way trying to force the islanders to join its failed nation.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 06:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina wants to pick a fight with a far stronger opponent it only has itself to blame when that opponent decides to retaliate and quite frankly its about bloody time the UK bought Argentina to heel for its childish behavior.
Its time Argentina is taught a lesson it won't forget in a hurry.
Conor @ 245 - Guzz sometimes says he's Uruguayan, sometimes he forgets and speaks of Argentina as “we”. I'm a Uruguayan, and I assure you that this troll knows nothing about Uruguay that he cannot get from the internet. At this time he's probably sitting in a cold, damp room somewhere in Argentina, wondering if CFK and company are going to honour his next paycheque.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@248
Jul 09th, 2012 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh I see well, I cant tell myself as I haven't had many interactions with him.
@244 Frank,
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0l was keeping quiet about that one.
Don't want to give the Argentines anymore ammo & don't want to get the Yanks offside or mad at the Aussies.
Still, it was bound to come out one day.
@249 Conner,
l, too, think that Guzz is an Argentine.
Maybe even one of sr Think's incarnations/avatars. lol.
@250
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Its Conor not conner. Never mind.
Yeah Think is a curious one, I have noticed several other “thinks,” a Misty think, Murky think, LightThink. I take it these are all/some of his names then?
@250.....I don't think its in very common use.... I have been told that it is the sort of slang bogans use.....
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0RG ammo? Is it just me... the rabid malvanistas that used to frequent M'press seem to be rather muted these days... as is the RG government..... maybe things are that stuffed up in RG land they are beyond using the FI as a diversion. It seems ages since we heard a squeak out of KFC..on any subject.....apart from her 'knees up' with Dilma and Pepe the other day....
@252
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you surprised?, in most countries the nationalist card begins to ware fin eventually, as people realise their problems aren't be solved.
ynsere
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0We have been through this, and you already showed everyone that you aren't capable of answering one single question about Uruguay.
You don't even know the name of the political party your own President belongs to :)
Conor
Unite SA ideologically and economically
TTT
Bit hard to defend you guys at times...
The biggest difference between Argentines and Uruguayans is that you got yourself a little brit in your bloodpool...
A central bank, closer links between countries.....all looks familiar.....still, its worked so well in europe its gotta be worth copying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0246
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody said you bombed the Japanese. I said the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was murdered, and that created a discussion as to how they had to die in order to save private Ryan...
21 Guzz (#) Ignorance of the highest order.....take a visit to the UK and you will see that in fact the 3rd world is looting the UK
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0257
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahaha!!!
Poor little rich countries, being abused like that by those horrible, horrible third worlders, taking advantage of their innocence :)
Steal an apple and you are a thief, steal billions of dollars and you are “a banker”...
As I said....ignorance of the highest order
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@105 HansNiesund
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0So true Hans. It seems Argentines have blind spot covering its own history as if they've led a sainted life. Ok so they acknowledge 1982 but even then its a case of 'not us but the Junta' but their collective amnesia makes then forget their genocidal behavior towards indigenous races (never ever a trait of british empire) where even until 1910 bounty hunters were paid for each kill. They forget their own country's spanish roots fighting wars against britain, france, too many wars to mention. They forget a sizeable portion of the population escaped fascist italy, a member of the axis powers of WWII, to hide from Allied justice. I think all the Argentines are taught is that Britain is full of Pirates and that Maradonna is welds the hand of god. You have to feel sorry for them.
@guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0You really do make me laugh.
Did you read the post properly.
I have read several accounts of the decision to use the A-bomb and also about the Plans to invade Japan. Go away and read “Codename Downfall: Secret Plan to Invade Japan by Thomas B. Allen and Norman Polmar”. It's better than any horror book to give you the creeps.
But there again, you obviously don't care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of British and US servicemen that would have resulted in this battle. Or the millions of Japanes who would have joined them in death.
If you want to talk about murder - the Japanes did that in spades - they were as bad as the Nazis. Ask anyone from China..............
I go back to my coment - what is this to do with the Falklands? Or with loans?
What do you think about the growing pressure in my country to no longer play ball with you.
You keep acting in a hostile and aggressive way towards our country and the Falklanders - all you doing is damaging your own reputation and economy.
261
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't speak for the islanders, Falklands/Malvinas is South American, you are not.
If you think it's ok to kill 200 000 civilians to stop a war, that's fine. I don't.
I don't know what thread you are reading, but in this one, the whole lot is talking about nukes and wmd's, not loans or the Falklands.
@262:
Jul 09th, 2012 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It makes no sense to say that the Falkland Islands are South American. South America is not a country and never will be, and those islands are far away from its shore. The geographical argument is worthless. A reasonable person would not touch it with a barge pole. You embarrass yourself whenever you repeat it.
@262 - Guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What right do you have to speak for the Falkland Islanders? Or Argentinians since you claim to be Uruguayan?
Oh yes, I forgot,m you believe in a united South America under the rule of Argentina, don't you Guzz. Strange attitude for an non-Argentine, wanting your country to ruled by another country, kind of makes you a traitor, doesn't it?
This thread is about the UK public wanting to stop loaning money to Argentina given their current belligerent stance towards the Falkland Islanders and the UK. Plus the fact that they are untrustworthy when it comes to them paying back monies they owe other people.
People like you try to divert this thread, but it's not going to change the fact that the UK can stop loaning money, and persuade other countries to stop loaning money to Argentina.
And all of this is due to CFKs governments illegal blockade against the peaceful people of the Falklands, and her constant politicisation of the islands to try and distract her own people away from the train wreck that is the Argentine economy.
Maybe once the money stops flowing, CFK might learn the error of her ways, but I wouldn't bet on that.
You say
Jul 09th, 2012 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That Argentina should have chemical weapons,
Have you any idea how dangerous they really are, and why they are banned or severely restricted,
In the 1950/60s, I believe
The British government released a small quantities if anthrax, on a deserted island
North of Britain, and added a few sheep cattle ect ect , to test the effects,
It is monitored often for information,
Last year it was calculated, that anthrax was and is still virulent on the island,
And all attempts to put the odd animal , to test , dies within days.
Just a point of interest,
Oh, by the way, Scotland, [why are you guys so obsessed with it]
Is going no where,, she will remain in exactly the same place, and will not move,
And that is a fact …..
Mmmmm yes it is ..
.
@guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This thread is off topic (loans and your economy) and off into “if only the beastly anglos had lost ww2” land only because you have pulled it off track.
I mean, the title “MPs call for UK to vote against World Bank loans to Argentina to counter Falklands’ aggression” is a bit of a give away is'nt it?
I had'nt realised I'd walked into a ww2 discussion forum until I saw most of your posts.
BTW I told “el think” that I don't care how many Germans the RAF killed in WW2, they really liked the blitz and thought it was quite funny, until it happened to them........ I apply the same to the bombing of Japan.
The Japanese Empire carried out a systematic program of vile and depraved aggression for the early 1930s in China and from 1941 they expanded it accross asia and the pacific. They were quite happy and indeed boastful of using air-power to destroy civilian and military targets and they treated their POWs in a bestial fashion.
What they did to the Chinese defies belief - the Japanes knickname for them was “blocks of wood”, becasue like a block of wood you could treat or destroy a chinaman any way you felt like.
They got what they deserved - I am glad the Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki died, instead of unnumbered thousands more of our servicemen in the jungle of SE asia and the hills of Japan. It was a war we did not start or ask for, against a savage and fanatical foe.
Get of your high horse.
Any way - just how is your country going to cope - your govt lies about it's inflation. It has pissed off many of it's major trading partners by it's eratic behaviour, and you may be making mercosur fall apart by crashing it's basic principles. So when I see TTT going on about the EU I would'nt laugh so much - you to could be in EVEN WORSE trouble economically very soon.
As I have already said - I would'nt give you a penny to help you out.
265 briton
Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0slightly outdated now,
next subject.
LEPRecon 264 - Guzz is not a Uruguayan. He's a clever Argentine troll who has changed the subject of the thread from the imminent to the ridiculous.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0265 actually it was during the 2nd world war and the island was decontaminated.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The main problem with chemical weapons is they are classed as weapons of mass destruction so using them against the Uk,US Or france means they will retaliate with their weapons of mass destruction. i.e Nukes
@269
Jul 09th, 2012 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina is being invaded and about to fall, what would it matter at that point?
If we are going down, we are taking us with you, that's my view. And why would you use nukes if you want to take over the country. That's the beauty of using WMD's in self-defense/survival situations, all the legitimacy is on the side being attacked.
Argentina should most definitely acquire WMD's, based on the arrogance of people on this board. Because it represents the arrogance of their elected leaders. Such viewpoints don't stop at the ballot box.
Leprecon
Jul 09th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Again you put words in my mouth, when have Isaid I wanted Argentina to rule Uruguay??? All in your head, mate, all in your head...
shb
If this thread is off topic, it's because one of you fools started talking about possible outcomes if Argentina defaulted on Chinese loans.
Furthermore, people are allowed to post whatever they have in mind, without asking of your opinion, believe it or not.
Best solution if you disagree, is to read Donald Duck or similar.
I'm glad you show your fascist tendencies, by the way :)
@ 6 C0nQEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Jul 09th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are we all in the same boat? Yes, we are. UK Clock Debt.
You like to show you are not poor, but your are. You are not a VIP. Your connections at Sky Harbor are nothing more than an immigrant from Cornwall, England trying to make a living with the british puff cornish pasty which is going down the hill because AMERICANS don't like bloody rubbish food. The USA southwest is TACO TERRITORY. The cornish pastries restaurant is hardly making it not paying its bills.
Chances for Argentina paying its debt: very slim. No enough revenues.
Chances for the USA to pay the 15 trillon deficit: O
Yesterday I called my nieces Lisa, Lindsey and nephew Jeff, all USA universty graduates with a base salary and benefits of U$S 80,000 each.
They have defaulted in their students loans. But are negotiating with their financial lenders to reduce the monthly payments. Such default lower thier credit report score and they will face more financial dificulties in the future.
If the World Bank don't approve loans to my country Argentina, my country will survive like earlier generations of argentinian did.
As an argentinian I can survive in any province without modernization
if I have to use las boleadoras to catch a guanaco, I use it.
So, impossing more economic pressure to my country ARGENTINA is simple a waste of time.
269 Martin Woodhead
Jul 09th, 2012 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks you are of course right .
They were made safe in about 1990s,
Thanks for your assistance
. 270 Truth_Telling_Troll
If Argentina is being invaded and about to fall
[you are not being invaded][at least by humans ]
270
Argentina should most definitely acquire WMD's, based on the arrogance of people on this board,,,
[ right, so the opinion of a group of unidentified people,]
You are going to acquire all the known weapons ,,known to mankind, just to slaughter everybody,
[only to find out, it was lies]
Then what TTT , oh sorry,, it wont wash.
.
@272
Jul 09th, 2012 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guanacos live in the USA?
Interesting.
@ 274 Pete Fog
Jul 09th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am planning to return to Bs.As. within the next 3 months.
Every time I go out here in the USA I hear the same: que linda argentina !
Ah OK.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina could survive without loans,, but if it did not use the practise of not paying them back or being aggressive to countries that lend it money, it would have no problem getting funding.
However as Argentina are mates with Syria, Angola, Iran and other such rich nations I guess they will have no problems with getting hold of money.
And of course from China, though they are not likely to be impressed if Argentina don't pay them back.
@276 Pete Bog,
Jul 09th, 2012 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apart from us being too close to the action, it would be utterly hilarious to watch China's reactions when they were told that Argentina had absolutely no intentions of repaying their loans.!
Says brits who owes 2 trillions USD (because they pay them back...)
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except for defence, the FIG owes nothing, Guzzboy.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the oil comes online we'll even be able to pay for that.
Do you even try to repay your debts?
@278
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK pays back its loans.
But even funnier is that the tiny Falkland Islands are even better with money requiring no loans, but Argentina are too stupid to take on board the management skills FIG deploy after only 30 years of being allowed a decent amount of autonomy.
@277 Correct Islode, though hopefully as the majority of Argentinians are not hard enough to survive living South of BA, hopefully the Chinese would be a 1000 miles north of you when arranging for the 'return of their funds'
Isolde, mylady, Uruguay has a very healthy economy. No defaulting as Argentina, and no huge debt like UK...
Jul 09th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Population in the Falklands is 3000 souls, even brits could lay a budget for 3000 people without having to “fix the numbers” like in the UK...
281 Guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0World corruption index places Uruguay in 25th place, That is not bad.
Argentina is 100 (on a par with the likes of Benin, Burkina Faso and Tanzania), Don't ask about the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/dec/01/corruption-index-2011-transparency-international#data
> TTT 270 Argentina should most definitely acquire WMD's, based on the arrogance of people on this board.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So a bit of rough and tumble on a bulletin board requires a WMD based defence policy? Isn't that a bit of an overreaction?
In any event, me personally, I have no problem with Argentina. I just have a problem with Bizarregentina, that curious time-warp country obsessed with disposessing a few thousand harmless islanders in order to big itself up on the world stage or in its own estimation.
282
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That list only shows just how corrupted your establishments are :)
In our list, UK is 109th...
284 Guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice one Guzzler, you are such a laugh. The sane world says 16th.
Another funny posting for you:
http://politicsandpolicy.org/node/310
In our list, UK is 109th...
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and argentina is first.
285
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You folks make the lists, then you use the very same lists as reference...
You do the same with your ratings, giving yourselves AAA then using the very same ratings to see who gets a part of the cake.
Continue with the farce, and stop your “aid”. Actually, stop your AIDS to the whole SA, we don't need it anymore. Something tells me we'll be gaining from it.
Keep your IMF and World Bank, we are making sure we wont be needing those installments within a few years.
Keep your iPods, iPads, iPhones and all I's, Me's, Ego's and Myself's to yourselves.
Choke on your wealth and enjoy your material happiness.
Just don't expect us to chase your dreams...
You may well have a point there,
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina should lead the world, in going back to basics,
And no damage to the environment.
And when Argentina,
Gives up these bad and influence nasty westernised things,
Give up, electricity, gas , computers or anything electronic, [no electric, they wont work ]
No cars, no planes , no fuel , no petrol or diesel ,
No foreign made cloths , or duvets ,
Argentineans can go back to walking everywhere, or by horse and cart,
Heat generated by wood fires,
Food caught fresh,
Yep, and the world will respect you for it,
And even CFK will support you, and all of her people, in-between her weekdays on the Florida beach , and Sundays, in foreign countries, [visiting on your behalf , of course]
Yep.
go for it.
.
287 Guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are sounding a bit bitter. Tired?
So we put all of these ratings together then?
What? Aid is all part of the master plan. A little part of the control mechanism.
Came out of Bretton Woods 1944 from memory (IMF & World Bank). The purpose was to help prevent wars. Also part of plan for world domination. Who won't be needing it? Uruguay or Argentina? Who are you speaking for now?
Soy muy pobre. Wish I was choking on it.
288
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You think we need you to make electricity?
Cars? Extract fuel?
Only thing I can come up with as to why I would need a brit, would be to have a laugh at on a forum thread...
290 Guzz (#)
Jul 09th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You think we need you to make electricity?
[no no, just a bicycle made for two, with a diode , ]
Cars? Extract fuel?
[condensation we believe, ]
Only thing I can come up with as to why I would need a bri
, would be to have a laugh at on a forum thread
[you mean a brit to laugh at,][monty python
We don’t laugh at you]
We laugh at CFK ]
.
> Only thing I can come up with as to why I would need a brit, would be to have a laugh at on a forum thread...
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But Gussie! Who will you blame your problems on?
291
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not laughing at you either, Briton
I just pointed out the one way a brit would be useful to me...
Don’t worry,
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just trying to cheer you up.
.
287 Guzz
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Que le están hablando en nombre de, Argentina o Uruguay?
off now,
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0later guys
@287 Um, Guzz, we don't make the lists. The lists are made by independent organisations based on a number of factors. They don't just pluck the numbers out of thin air. We are given our AAA rating just the same as you are given your B rating. We have no control over the process. We were told that we are the 16th least corrupt country in the world, just as you were told that you are the 100th (I find it extremely hard to believe that you are a Uruguayan, given your undying support for Argentina, though Uruguay is also ranked lower than the UK, at 25th). As I said before, 'we' don't make the lists.
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0295
Jul 09th, 2012 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Latinoamerica, unida
@297
Jul 10th, 2012 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0And why should anyone believe those lists made by, hmmm, anglo saxons?
Isn't it shocking anglo-saxon lists place anglo saxon nations first, german lists place german nations first, asian list tend to list European nations below the other lists, etc, etc?
Shocking, I know.
It's not all that shocking when you consider who you're dealing with.
Jul 10th, 2012 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.economist.com/node/18587317
“Lies and Argentine statistics
Stalinist practices in Buenos Aires
Apr 20th 2011 | from the print edition
MOST Argentines reacted with a shrug when their government began doctoring its consumer-price index in 2007. Cooking the books cost holders of the country’s inflation-linked bonds at least $2.3 billion last year. But anyone else who needed to know the true inflation rate simply turned to a clutch of private economists who drew on their own price surveys, data from provincial governments and other official statistics. They reckon that inflation is now running at about 25%. That is far above the 10% reported by INDEC, the government statistics agency, but less than the 30% wage increases public employees have received in recent years.”
Shocking, I know.
290 Guzz
Jul 10th, 2012 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Somehow, the future you are planning for yourself, where you rely on the Argentine IT industry and thus relieve us of your miserable presence, has a strange appeal.
Can't say the prospect of relying on Argentine- researched and produced medicines would inspire me with much confidence. Never mind, you go for it. When you've renounced the modern world and gone back to ploughing the land with the arsebone of a giraffe, I'm sure you'll be very happy.
301
Jul 10th, 2012 - 08:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your problem is that you guys regard yourselves as the very reason the world spins. You will soon realize that the spins around with or without you, and it doesn't need a bunch of hypocrite brits in order to evolve.
Me, I am just the same :)
@302 Guzz,
Jul 10th, 2012 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The same what.............? A ratbag.
Mylady Isolde
Jul 10th, 2012 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0You need to understand that any insult from a morally deserted descendant of Oedipus with a twist of narcissism, is taken as flattery...
@299 The list comes from Transparency International. It's formed from people around the world and is internationally recognised as the authority on corruption perception. By the way, the only 'anglo-saxon' countries in the top ten (least corrupted) are New Zealand at first (I think that if you ever went to New Zealand you would understand why they deserve to be top), Australia at 8th and Canada at 10th. The UK places at 16th and the USA at 24th. Not exactly favouritism if you ask me. It seems to me like the countries in the top 30 are there because they deserve the ranking that they were given (I've done some research on this). By the way, Anglo-saxon is an utterly incorrect way to refer to the ethnicity of people from the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Recent studies have shown that the Saxons were merely a ruling elite over a predominantly British population. Our ancestry is mainly native British with a some Anglo-saxon blood and a bit of Norman. Due t0 intermarrying with native populations, plus the arrival of other settler communities, the term anglo-saxon would be even less accurate for the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Get your facts right my friend.
Jul 10th, 2012 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@guzz
Jul 10th, 2012 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrong again, but why break the habit of a lifetime.
On some issues I am right wing, on others I am left wing. I am firmly a believer in democracy.
I also a believer in the american saying “payback is a bitch”. So I don't have qualms over what we did to the axis powers in WW2. They chose to unleash total wars of aggression, involving the targeting of civilian populations to break morale and destroy production. We did'nt make them do it. They should have reckoned with their would be victims doing the same back to them.
@304 Guzz,
Jul 10th, 2012 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're still a ratbag, Guzz. A raving, insecure Argentine ratbag.
Or a troll.
I thank thee, my good woman. I am not worthy :)
Jul 10th, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And now Argentina is lodging a complaint against the USA and Japan for not importing their lemons and beef. Argentina used to have the best beef in the world, but since Kirchners have been in power, the beef industry has been destroyed (as well as most other industries) and nobody wants that poor quality junk garbage beef, loaded with hormones and washed with bleach. The lemons are sprayed with dangerous chemicals and injected with color because the soil is so depleted of minerals in Argentina that the lemons are white and have no flavor. All countries should completely avoid ALL Argentine products. Maybe when Cristina Kirchner disappears and the country has a normal government that doesn't destroy everything they touch, and industry can once again become respectable. But for now every country should AVOID ALL ARGENTINE PRODUCTS COMPLETELY - 100% BOYCOTT!!
Jul 10th, 2012 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We do not buy argentine corned beef anymore,
Jul 10th, 2012 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks
.
Cheap Argentinian wine is beginning to appear in the shops.
Jul 11th, 2012 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Time to kill that particular trade off at birth.
@310 briton,
Jul 11th, 2012 - 08:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite right too. l am in charge of finances in this household & not one Argentine product comes through the door.
And never will until they change their attitude(l don't think thats likely).
@308Guzz,
Oh but you are; you are most worthy of what you have been named.
@306shb,
My sentiments exactly.
Mum is from Paris but her dad was Russian.
He hated the Germans until the day he died(he didn't like the communists, too!).
Can't remember where I heard it, but I've heard Andrew Rosindell described as more jingoist than a bulldog called Spike!
Jul 11th, 2012 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0312
Jul 11th, 2012 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0My most humble thanks, again.
It's a good thing you'll stop buying Argentinian.
More meat for the rest of us. I think I will buy twice as much as I use to, just to keep our brothers and sisters levelled :)
We are not like you, you know. We don't rely on blockades and boycots (luckily for you)...
we saw on TV alien interfearing with your cattle,
Jul 11th, 2012 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0a myth maybe
TV rubbish,
but we take no chances .
lol.
@311
Jul 11th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Any Argentinian wine seen on the supermarket shelves, I turn the bottles around.
Every little helps, and it gives me a little pleasure.
Would never buy any, not even good enough to pour down the drain.
Unfortunatelly, this is no more than the tipical pathetic victimization that the u. k does all the time, which is supported by the islanders too.
Jul 12th, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway, in case that the world bank decides not to borrow us more money, there is something you should know firstly. I know that maybe this is a good news for some people who are looking forward to a new economic crisis in arg., thats' why perhaps some of you must be very anxious about the posible succes of this proposal, however you must know that getting more debt is not a priority in absolut for our government. In fact, the percentage between public and private debt represents the 33% of the whole national production, which is an insignificant percentage, in 2003 it represented the 160%. Beside, in case that arg. needs funds from int. institutions, and if the the world bank decides finally not to borrow us more money, there will be ohers sources that arg. can search in order to finance it's more important projects. This proposal is just the tipical cheap nationalism, which is based on blaming the others for the problems, and doesn't recognize that it's not acting correctly either.
On the other hand, all those mps and rosindell, pretend to give us lessons of respect to the institutions, arguing that arg. must respect the right to self determination for the islanders, but, at the same time, the u. k rejects to resume the negotiations with arg., like the u. n and many integrants of the int. comunity recommend. Beside, rosindell had said in janory at the paliament that argentina's actions had been deplorable, and expressed also that it should be reminded to arg. that it lost the war of 1982. It should be reminded to rosindell, and to all those mps, that the u. n has never applied the right to self determination for this cause, like it did for others colonial situations, beside, this cause has always beeen cosidered like a special situatcion too.
Anyway, our government is not acting correctly either in some aspects.
bla bla bla .
Jul 12th, 2012 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know guys, I'm not going to enter in this situation with you just because I think that free health care system for the poor is the right thing to do, while you think I'm preaching communism, and communism is hell. There are greys in between, that I'm not explaining here.
Jul 12th, 2012 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the thing is, that here in Argentina, we (I'm in my mid 20s) can go to university for free, I just gotta buy the books or copies, although there's a library which is free as well (I'm studying to become an English translator, so hope you can help me with my English), people recieve free treatments at hospitals; our fathers, who lost their jobs in the 2001 crisis, are getting new jobs, new factories have settled in the country, more children are going to school, you now? they don't need to beg in the streets anymore because their poor mom's are now recieving some little money (only if they sent their children to school). Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is in the left wing of life, she is no murderer, terrorist or dictator; there have been elections, and she got 54% of the votes without any fraude (not like JW Bush did in Florida, remember?) so, to sum up, ordinary people, middle class, professionals, we are doing way better we did in the 90's, there is a lot to be done still, but you know, it is not easy in a country were one mass media company has 300 licenses (which mean, 300 media papers, websites, tv channels and radios), a company that has strong connections with land owners, militars and the clergy...
319
Jul 12th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How fcuking sad. KFC didn't pay money then to get poor people to vote for her, half before and the rest when they went to the rallies and then voted?
You know, there are NO formal complaints against CFK. On the other hand, she won the elections in Buenos Aires, the richest city in the country, did she gave us money as well? what is more, do you think that she gave money to 11 MILLION people who voted for her?
Jul 13th, 2012 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Eurpe is falling apart, Spain cut salaries and pensions, Greece is in the hands of banks, there's a world crisis out there, England is doing well, but think guys, this “paradise” wont last for ever, a change must be done 'cause people are ending up in the streets all over Europe
Dear Mati
Jul 13th, 2012 - 03:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody doubts that life improved for the Argentine middle class under the NK and CFK administrations. The international scenario certainly helped, not to mention unpaid debt. Unfortunately, a decline has already started and it is to be feared that things will get much worse before they get any better. All the fuss about the Falklands in Argentina is just the government's way of keeping people's minds off their fears for the future. A repeat of Galtieri, but without the resources for actual warfare.
316
Jul 13th, 2012 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good one, think I'll try that next time I go to Tesco.
317
What you worried about then. As for UK talking to Argentina about the Falklands - don't be silly, it isn't going to happen.
321
No complaints about Kirchner? Really?.................. Give it time.
@ 319 & 321 Mati,
Jul 13th, 2012 - 08:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well thats nice for the people of Argentina,
Now, ALL CFK has to do is:-
1)Remove the offending clauses from Argentina's Constitution.
2)Formally drop Argentina's “claims” to the Falklands & other British territories.
3)Remove ALL embargos & blockades from the Falklands.
4)Stop Argentina's moaning & whinging at the UN & elsewhere, about oil, resources or anything else.
5)Apologise for the illegal Argentine invasion of 1982.
lf CFK does ALL this then she will earn my undying gratitude & respect & l promise not to call her the evil night hag anymore.
Can't see it happening of course & even if she did...............would Argentina stick to it?????????????????
322
Jul 13th, 2012 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0How has the world-wide financial crisis helped our nations this past decade?
Don't come with your usual “you're not Uruguayan”, just try answering the question.
#319&321 Very well said, thanks for injecting a bit of sense into the discussion and reminding us of why Cristina is rightly loved by her people =)
Jul 13th, 2012 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0#324 I predict you would be surprised at how accomodating Cristina would be if it wasn't for Britain's absurd militarist posture. She has already offered a hand of friendship on the condition Cameron unclench his fist. She's only asking for negotiations not unconditional surrender so who knows what will come out of that, why not give it a try...
@326 B_K,
Jul 13th, 2012 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because there is nothing to “negotiate”.
They want us to surrender our country.
What could anyone possibly “offer” in exchange for that action?
No negotiations, ever.
@326
Jul 13th, 2012 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is not Moyano one of her people?
Does he love her?
If it wasn't for Argentina's agressive, uncompromising posture, that of the UK wouldn't be a mirrror to it.
Also I think it highly amusing that some Argentinians harp on about not being worried about the Islanders living on their homeland except that Argentina wants the oil.
If Nestor, the bad investor, hadn't walked out of bi-lateral talks, Argentina would be benefitting financially from the oil exploration whilst the Islanders would be on their homeland, and Argentina would be sharing resources that aren't theirs.
Cameron is forced to clench his fis tas it is a direct response to CFK's belligerent posture.
Argentina has STILL not learned a thing about British psychology.
Stupidly, we will agree to almost anything if people are polite to us, but intransigent belligerance by the Argentines will reap intransigent belligerance.
The Argentines assumed we were a soft touch in 1982 because we agreed to things we should not have and were friendly and non-aggressive to a dictatorship the point of stupidity pre-1982, just to keep the peace and to appear 'diplomatic.'
This was rewarded by Argentine aggression. Once the 1982 invasion occurred we showed we are not the pussies that Argentina imagined us to be and kicked their asses.
This teaches the UK, that if they negotiate with Argentina we will be hated, and they will be aggressive.
If the UK mirrors the Argentines macho-ness, we will be respected, even if hated.
If the
CFK has not offered peace at all-that is her problem-she and Tinman are belligerent and ignore the islanders THEREFORE of course the UK will match that beligerance, and so will the islanders.
Go figure.
#328 Moyano doesn't love her because he's a class traitor who wants her job
Jul 13th, 2012 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, don't compare CFK with Galtieri, you should know that Galtieri killed 30k people and was not elected by the people.
Jul 13th, 2012 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you may know, all the dictatorships in South America were executed with support from the CIA (this has been long proved) bare in mind that before the war England was willing to negociate with Argentina over Malvinas, but what happened? Galtieri's popularity was falling down, so the USA “suggested” invading the Malvinas in exchanged for their support (of course the yankis wanted to settle a military base in the south atlantic with their friend Mrs Thatcher) so that drunk ass-wh*le of Galtieri followed the lead of the US and invaded Malvinas, on a war that we all now couldn't be won
Malvinas is IN the Argentinian Sea, so all the fish and the oil is IN Argentinian territory. Did you know that there are scholarships for Malvinenses to study in Argentinian Universities? Did you know that the governor of Malvinas is not elected by their people, but is designated In London? so, there is no self determination; Malvinas is a colony of the UK
I hope that some day, you guys will realize that you'll get nowhere with this policy of conquering and keeping lands off shore.
Again, it would be nice for you to visit our lovely country (as well as Brazil's beautiful beaches, or the mighty incas of Peru) and see by yourselves how people is living, dont read the main stream media, they want us to believe that brutal capitalism is the solution, but it is not, if you are capitalist, go for a social capitalism, not a banking one.
enjoy summer
Mati #330,
Jul 13th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was unaware that the USA started the Falklands War in order to get a military base in the S. Atlantic.
I was also unaware that there is a thing called The Argentinian Sea.
I was also unaware that if a Sea is named with reference to a country, then that country owns all the assets in the Sea. If all the nations around the S. China Sea knew this there would be no need for them to get aggressive over the disputed islands.
I like all the South American countries you mention. They all have attractions as well as beauty. So much so that I have lived there. But I did not go for your 'Social Capitalism', the corruption and crime, the 'democratic dictatorships' or the Bolivarian Revolution.
Dear Mati
Jul 13th, 2012 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the USA “suggested” invading the Malvinas in exchanged for their support”
“Malvinas is IN the Argentinian Sea, so all the fish and the oil is IN Argentinian territory”
Nonsense Mati! What were you thinking of? If you parrot things like these you'll lose all credibility. Like so many of your fellow countrymen and women.
BTW, I'm not British, I'm Uruguayan. It's a particularly cold evening here, not summer. I'll try to cheat the chill with a wee dram of grappamiel. ¡Salud!
330 Mati
Jul 13th, 2012 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentinian Sea!!!!????
I am a lurker but I just have to comment on that one. What the F*ck are you talking about? It reminds me of when we used to peel off the “industria Argentina” labels from products to see where they were really made or pointing out the lies in Kapelusz.
Any support or compassion you guys might have received is lost when you bring up crap like this!
Hi there Zhivago, before calling my texts “crap” please try to be informed about what you are talking about, otherwise, the fool will end up being you. In the following link you can read more about the Mar Argentino (literally, Argentine Sea) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Sea
Jul 14th, 2012 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0ynsere, me extraña que siendo un hermano uruguayo no te hayas informado mas antes de opinar sobre la triste historia que manchó ambos países.
switching back to English, I think you are fully aware of piqueteros, of Cristina, of Kirchnerism, but, do you know what a “Nieto Recuperado” is? do you know that there have been football players, artists, factory men, and many others kidnapped and killed? they were no terorrists you know.
If you are willing to know more about the issue of the “Desaparecidos” please visit the following link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Sea
and in this link you can found some information about the “Condor Plan” involving latin american dictatorships an the USA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Sea
334 Mati
Jul 14th, 2012 - 04:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0The article which you linked, which incidentally is not verified, does not mention anything about Argentina “owning” anything. The fact that it is named after Argentina is not a basis for ownership or do you believe that the Gulf of Mexico belongs to Mexico or the Indian Ocean belongs to India? Please don't resurrect that silly “plataforma continental” argument either because it is crap!
Dear Mati
Jul 14th, 2012 - 05:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't write Spanish in an English-language forum. Where are your manners?
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If it's the Plan Condor, I know a great deal about it, but this forum is called Falkland Islands. I believe Argentina should stop bullying the Falklands, not to mention Uruguay. NOW. Never mind Argentina's past lies and unsavoury actions, too late to change the past, turn over the page.
“this forum is called Falkland Islands”
Jul 14th, 2012 - 06:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0No it isn't!
@337 B_K,
Jul 14th, 2012 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you well know, ynsere meant to say “in this forum it's called the Falkland lslands”
And he was correct. You are wrong.
This is an English language forum & the English term is the Falklands.
Which is their true name in any case.
No I really meant “no its called mercopress”. Though there is a subforum called Falkland Islands and he might have meant that...
Jul 14th, 2012 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0339 BK
Jul 14th, 2012 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're such a dick!
Zhivago @ 340 - I'd like to second that!
Jul 14th, 2012 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@329
Jul 14th, 2012 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps Moyano cares more about the Argentine people than CFK who is in love with the money she has stashed overseas.
Perhaps Moyano wants to sort out problems in Argentina whilst CFK abandons them for her imperialist ambitions?
#341 I'll take that as a compliment, as an anti-Pepe Uruguayan your judgement is clearly terrible
Jul 14th, 2012 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#342 Perhaps pigs will fly. The man's in it for himself, its so obvious
It seems Isolde is working overtime, Zhivago has been dismissed from duty and she also answer for Ynsere. She sounds lunatic. Poor Sueca !.
Jul 14th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@344 SussieUS,
Jul 14th, 2012 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But who writes your posts for you, poor little peasant girl.
@343
Jul 14th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And CFK isn't in politics for herself and the Kirchener dynasty?
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