MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
HMS Dauntless in South Africa; will pay courtesy visit to the Falklands
The Royal Navy’s Daring class Type 45 destroyer HMS Dauntless is in Cape Town, mid-way through her six-month deployment to the Falklands relieving HMS Montrose according to British defence news. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesShe's a beaut isn't she, need to fit close in phalanx like daring has. Some more goodies going to be fitted in next couple of years.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0she has it would not deploy without it to somewhere as dodgy as south atlantic whilst rgs are sabre rattling
Jul 18th, 2012 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Needs to be fitted with everything she can carry. More anti-air. Anti-ship. Land Attack cruise missiles. Torpedo tubes. Mine launch rails. Everything to destroy the entire argie “navy” by herself.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A few HMS Dauntless short videos:
Jul 18th, 2012 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Royal Navy: HMS Dauntless Tour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDIDus8j0I
HMS Dauntless to deploy to Falklands 31.01.12:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDIDus8j0I
Without HMS Dauntless 'it would be game over for the Falklands':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFDIDus8j0I
@3 she dont need it the hunter killer carries all that, but don't tell anyone..............oh shit sorry..................what hunter killer?
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They need to install Harpoon and Tomahawk. There is provision on board for them, they just need to fit them. It will be expensive but there are plenty of quangos that we can get rid of. It is necessary to provide a suitable deterrent to Argentina.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Daring class destroyers are an interesting paradigm shift tbh. Effectively a light cruiser in displacement (random cheeky comparison, the Belgrano displaced 9500 tons compared to the 8000 of the new type 45s) but with anti-ship weapons limited to a single 4.5 inch gun and the missiles on her helicopter accompaniment.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just shows how ship to ship warfare has declined since 1945. Also the cold-war emphasis on anti-sub warfare is more or less dead apparently.
Very silly of Navy to suggest that the ship is just cruising the southern hemisphere hosting cocktail parties on the flight deck, and will only pay a “courtesy” visit to the Falklands. This fluffy rebranding of the mission is probably based on Foreign Office advice to avoid upsetting BA. Everyone knows she has - quite rightly - deployed to send a strong defence message to the Argentines. Courtesy visit to the Falklands, my bottom.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I look forward to the cocktail party on board. The G&Ts always seem to taste so much better on board a Royal Navy ship. It's always great fun going out through the Narrows in the launch, looking bad at Stanley, magnificent in the setting sunlight, a few dolphins coming along for the ride and then coming alongside and being welcomed aboard.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes sir, I can't wait.
2.... Pretty sure she wasn't fitted with phalanx
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I wasn't sure what to read into “the courtesy visit to the Falklands”, that is obviously a tactical announcement for the consumption of , well let's say 'others'!
Jul 18th, 2012 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is the reality will be a rotating visit to the falklands by all the T45's from now on, I just can't see them leaving anything to chance, not with all the shit coming from the dictator duo at the moment.
Are we really just being polite to the Argies as not to upset them,
Jul 18th, 2012 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or in reality,
We just don’t wish to embarrass them [ again ] .lol.
.
@10 you might be right, I know Dragon has them already as does Daring, Diamond and Defender perhaps they'll fit it in Mare harbour i believe it's already to go, might be waiting for block2 off York, same as Harpoon from type 22's fitted for between bridge screen and missle launcher, all upper deck oerlikens are fully stand alone systems controlled by ops room and 4 mini guns enough to piss off the rg's
Jul 18th, 2012 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In time, they will all get the full armaments they were designed for,
Jul 18th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will just take time and money,
Lets just hope, the money arrives before time runs out .
seen that advert on tv about Royal Navy hunter killers really good AND TRUE!!!!!
Jul 18th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice looking ship.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One question I have for those who are experts on such matters:
Do missiles, like Tomahawks, have a fall back guidance system if either, the Chinese knock GPS out, or if the US decides not to lend it to you?
@16
Jul 18th, 2012 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fall Back Guidance? As in turn around and come home?
or if the US decides not to lend it to you?
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lend us what,
these are latest R/N ships,
and do not fire tomahawks
as far as i know .
@18
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are equipped to carry them with a few alterations to the launchers but the RN prefers that the Submarine service operates them for better tactical efficiency i.e. Stealth, element surprise and secrecy etc.
i picked this up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0General characteristics
Type: Guided missile destroyer
Displacement: 8,000 tonnes, standard[3]
Length: 152.4 m (500 ft 0 in)
Beam: 21.2 m (69 ft 7 in)
Draught: 7.4 m (24 ft 3 in)
Propulsion: 2 shafts Integrated electric propulsion(IEP);
• 2× Rolls-Royce WR-21 gas turbines, 21.5 MW (28,800 shp) each
• 2× Wärtsilä 12V200 diesel generators, 2 MW (2,700 shp) each[4]
• 2× Converteam electric motors, 20 MW (27,000 shp) each
Speed: In excess of 29 kn (54 km/h; 33 mph)[5]
Range: 7,000 nautical miles (13,000 km) at 18 kn (33 km/h)
Complement: 190 (accommodation for up to 235)
Sensors and
processing systems: • SAMPSON multi-function air tracking radar (Type 1045)
• S1850M 3-D air surveillance radar (Type 1046)
• 2× Raytheon I-band Radar
(Type 1047)
• 1× Raytheon E/F-band Radar
(Type 1048)[6]
• Ultra Electronics Series 2500 Electro-Optical Gun Control System (EOGCS)[7]
• Ultra Electronics SML Technologies radar tracking system
• Ultra Electronics/EDO MFS-7000 sonar
Electronic warfare
and decoys: • UAT16
• Surface ship torpedo defence (SSTD)
Armament: Anti-air missiles;
Sea Viper air defence system.
48 cell SYLVER A50 VLS, for a combination of 48;
Aster 15 missiles (range 2-30 km)
Aster 30 missiles (range 3-120 km)
Guns;
1× BAE 4.5 inch Mk8 Mod. 1 gun
2× 30 mm guns
2× Phalanx CIWS
2× Miniguns
6× General-purpose machine guns
Provision for but not fitted with;
2× Quad Boeing AGM-84 Harpoon launchers (8 anti-ship missiles)
BGM-109 Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles
Aircraft carried: 1-2× Lynx HMA8, armed with;
• 4× Sea Skua anti ship missiles, or
• 2× anti submarine torpedoes
or
1×Westland Merlin HM1,[8]armed with;
• 4× anti submarine torpedoes
Aviation facilities: • Large flight deck
• Enclosed hangar
@16 yep they do and we have a rather large stockpile, next question
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 not yet but the hunter killer carries loads...........................oooops i've done it again
as all you gays know,
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0these are very powerfull ships,
CFK would need alien back up on this one,
or just go back to her dream world .lol.
someone stop me telling the truth it don't work on here, rgenweeners dont like it
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22 no alien would touch her with a barge pole except BK of course
SORRY.
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fxxcking key board,
My mistake,
I meant you guys,
[sorry.
.
@21 slattzzz
Jul 18th, 2012 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not referring to the stock pile, I am referring to guidance. Without GPS/satellite guidance, there must be an alternative (albeit less accurate) method for getting the weapon to its target.
@briton
“lend us what”
GPS
The US can deny access whenever they want, that is why the EU is spending a fortune on their own Galileo system.
@25..... I think if primary guidance fails they are quite happy with 'somewhere in Argentina'.... I'm sure the effect would be much the same......
Jul 19th, 2012 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont know much about GPS
Jul 19th, 2012 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0i thought we had our own,
interesting .
@26
Jul 19th, 2012 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0at $500,000 a pop you don't want them to fall on empty pampas.
@27 briton
The US military owns the GPS satelites. They kindly make it freely available to humanity so we can use it in our cars, phones, etc. But of course they can black it out when ever they want.
The Russians and Chinese have their own GPS because you can’t be a global power without it, hence the EU’s own system which is a few year behind schedule.
There has been some debate in the UK about over reliance on US GPS in the military. Securing GPS access will be even more critical as unmanned AVs become more common.
Turning off GPS would be an action of last resort as so much now depends on it.... jamming would be more to the point but the US doesn't have the where withall to locally jam in RG land.... and they would have arrived before anyone could make a decision anyway...
Jul 19th, 2012 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0The same would go for any RG attempt to jam GPS ( which can be done) even if they knew how.
“Teams from these countries boarded the warship and learnt how to tackle a variety of maritime problems including PIRACY”
Jul 19th, 2012 - 02:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
They coulnd't find a better a teacher!!
I think the best the USA can do is turn GPS off. If that is the case it would cost a fortune and probably lives. It'd definitly be a last resort.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 016 Condorito (#)
Jul 19th, 2012 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Contour mapping and star alignment.
30: remind me, Marcos, how many ships are Argentina contributing to the international anti-piracy force off the Horn of Africa?
Jul 19th, 2012 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0In respect to the GPS question, its worth pointing out the UK's most advanced weapons do not require GPS although they will use its in addition to their own systems as a extra check.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Essentially the UK can still hit anything with its most powerful weapons regardless of the state of the GPS network. If you think about it logically it wouldn't make sense for the UK to have a single point of failure for its most important missions.
Oh dear, Hysterical Hector, TimidMan and PutridJelly have just wet themselves again.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 08:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 Sorry, when did a hunter-killer (submarine) get anti-air missiles, anti-ship missiles and/or mine launch rails?
Jul 19th, 2012 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@7 The “kill” part of ASW is generally carried out by the helicopters. The 1 or 2 Lynx helicopters carry 4 Sea Skua anti-ship missiles or 2 anti-submarine torpedoes. If Dauntless is carrying a Merlin helicopter, it will have 4 anti-submarine torpedoes.
@10 Dauntless apparently has 2 Phalanx CIWS.
@16 GPS is used to determine the launch point. Nothing else. It is the same with ballistic missile submarines. If GPS is “unavailable” they use other methods such as inertial navigation or “dead reckoning”.
@25 The “guidance” is “on-board”. Just think about it. Would you base your armaments around a satellite system that can be removed with a cluster of satellite-killer missiles? Of course not. So GPS is not used for “guidance”. Incidentally, let this dispel the nonsense that the USA can stop the UK firing its nuclear ICBMs. They can't. We might discuss an intended action with them but, at the end of the day, the decision is ours. Regarding the ballistic missile submarines, a lot can rest on the shoulders of the captain. If the UK command structure is wiped out, e.g. by a massive nuclear strike, he can place his boat at the disposal of US authorities OR act independently. “Some people” might want to consider the likely course of action for a ballistic missile submarine captain convinced that his family and the families of all those aboard his vessel have been obliterated by some nutty latinos.
#30 pirates of the south atlantic pity argentina hasnt got anything worth stealing
Jul 19th, 2012 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0British military might on the way to British waters!
Jul 19th, 2012 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are 2 only GPS (Global Position System) actually working 1 is owned by US and the other belongs to Russia (GLONASS).
Jul 19th, 2012 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0And there are 3 GPS under construction 1 by EU (Galileo) the other by China (Beidou) and the last by Argentina (Antares).
The system requires 24 sats with synchronic trajectory to have always 3 sat at minimum available to provide identification and timestamp from sats over a given earth’s zone to perform reversed triangulation by the receptor point.
So I guess that the US turn off would not have much impact in few years to come.
I love how on the one hand you have CFKC throwing a pink fit, threatening and screaming, sending her flying monkeys out to spread blatant lies and commissioning highly offensive advertisements - all to no avail. Whereas the British just sail into port, sipping cocktails and making their point with pure class. : )
Jul 19th, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just as a little aside, here's a comparison for you...
Jul 19th, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0In order of size
Arg - Almirante Brown Class destroyer - 4 in service, displacement 3'360 tons, age ~30 years
Arg - ARA Hercules (amphibious command ship) - 1 in service, displacement 4'100 tons, age ~36 years
Britain - Type 23 Frigate - 13 in service, displacement 4'900 tons, age ~25 years
Britain - Type 26 Frigate - entering service in 2020, displacement 5'500 tons
Britain - Type 45 Destroyer - 4 in service, 1 completed, 1 building, displacement 8'000 tons, shiny
So you see, Argentina's largest surface combatant is smaller than the Royal navy's smallest and most obsolete frigate. Not only that but the ARA hercules is basically a modified Type 42 destroyer, a vessel totally obsolete in the face of its replacement. Add to that HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark (amphibious assault ships) and HMS Ocean and HMS Illustrious as helicopter carriers.
So you can see, even in this interval before our two new carriers are finished and we can launch fixed-wing aircraft again, the Royal Navy has more than enough surface combat power to obliterate any opportunist raid by Argtard forces.
And thats before we even get into submarine forces
39 DanyBerger
Jul 19th, 2012 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you say
The system requires 24 sats
Do you mean 24 actual satellites, set in strategic positions as to cover the earth.
As one knows not of these things,
It is always wise to ask those who knows these things,
It seems to me, that it is getting pretty well crowded up there,
.
UK has naturalized violence in their culture and way of life so much to say that bombing cities it is to protect civilians, that a militar ship full of missiles is to make visits of courtousy and that sending a prine for militar trainning is an act of routine.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, in others civilized parts of the world, we dont see it that way.
If in the visit of courtesy of this ship, you are going to make coctails or parties, remember pointing the friendly missiles to the Falklands or to any oil exploration platform you have arround. Just in case, we have nothing to do with this.
@42 As of March 2008, there were 31 actively broadcasting satellites in the GPS “constellation”. There are also 2 additional older satellites kept as orbital spares.
Jul 19th, 2012 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@43 Yes we have to have violence in order to protect OUR people from people like YOU. If you think we believe a single word you lot say about being “peaceful”, think again. The one thing that we do know is that every time YOU, figuratively, open YOUR mouth, YOU are lying. As the phrase has it “How do you tell if a latino is lying? His lips are moving.” The phrase can be amended to take account of writing or using a keyboard. YOU lie. YOU break agreements. YOU break treaties. YOU sign and ratify important international documents, and then breach their contents on a daily basis. At least somewhere like North Korea or Iran is fairly open about its attitudes and intentions. YOU are sneaky, lying, underhanded cowards who would like the world to believe that YOU are a democracy. YOU aren't. YOU are a dictatorship with a false “democratic” veneer. YOU can't even be honest about what YOU are.
@34 & 36
Jul 19th, 2012 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I certainly wouldn’t base my armaments around a satellite system, it would be madness given that the Chinese have demonstrated they can kill satellites (the Russians can presumably do the same). Good to know they can make do without GPS for important weapons systems.
@43 Malen
“UK has naturalized violence in their culture ”
What nonsense. There is more violent crime in Argentina than in the UK. If you refer to the military, then you just have to remember that 65 years ago 44,000 London civilians were killed by German bombs, not to mention the bombing of other cities. The UK had tried to appease Germany. The point is, you never know when a mad (wo)man might take power in another country.
The Falkland Islanders suffered in 1982 because there was a mad man in power in Argentina. They are totally in their right to be prepared for future eventualities.
In Chile we have learnt too and I sleep well at night knowing that today Argentina wouldn’t dare threaten our territorial integrity.
@43 you are a Pratt!
Jul 19th, 2012 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have stepped up our presence because of the hostile language from “el Presidente”, and Adolf Timerman. Any nation who were on the receiving end of your abuse would respond the same way as the UK.
The UK have no intention of bombing you, provided you don't decide to invade the FI again.
And yes you are right, we can be a violent nation, so when you decide to up your military budget and take another pop at us, don't start crying when your soldiers get another running through.
Oh I forgot....and once again, you are a Pratt.
#43 Malen
Jul 19th, 2012 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK murder rate is falling despite an increasing population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9411113/Murder-at-lowest-level-in-30-years.html
Only 550 in a population of 60 million plus which is less than 1 in 100,000 of population
Argentina's murder rate 5.5 per 100,000 in 2010 (last freely avaiable data)
Conclusion Argentina is 550% more violent than the UK
43 malen
Jul 19th, 2012 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is an African saying, you may not have heard it but it's one that the British Armed Forces have taken to heart and it goes like this:-
“Talk softly but carry a big stick”
Please meet HMS Dauntless. One of the many “Big Sticks” that our navy have. Now are you ready to listen to some “soft talking”?
It stands in complete contrast to KFC's policy of “Scream and rant loud enough until someone talks notice of you”
@36 your right no anti air missles but our subs carry sub harpoon an anti ship missle and can be adapted to carry acoustic mines, there not very big these days mate and launched like harpoon and tomahawk through the torpedo tubes, how do i know this.........................?
Jul 19th, 2012 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is nothing more than a show. My country Argentina has no intentions to invade such islands. Who wants 3,000 retards unable to think wisely?
Jul 19th, 2012 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor turism, poor fisheries, poor everything! No money, No class.
UK PM Kamoron announced the UK austerity will continue until the year 2020. Military reduction is expected in the UK. Tax on cornish pasty don't bring enough revenues for the UK economy to survive.
Same situation here in the USA. The USA goverment is BROKE.
This means the USA is planning to close military bases including several military bases overseas.
Is time to think differently.
@43. wouldn't be much of a military ship without guns and missles would it pratt
Jul 19th, 2012 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@50 think you'll find the UK defence budget deficit has been wiped out, hence both carriers will now enter service together, and type 26 frigates will begin build shortly, and today we took delivery of the first f35 lightning II, so we ain't thinking differently
@51
Jul 19th, 2012 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are perfectly right Mr Slattzzz, however the deficit may be gone but the MOD is still wasting so much money just by being in existence, I prefer the UKIP proposal= Disband the MOD and have a procurement agency replace it with less then 400 Military personnel rather then 40,000 civil servants.
39 DanyBerger
Jul 19th, 2012 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are 2 only GPS (Global Position System) actually working 1 is owned by US and the other belongs to Russia (GLONASS).
And there are 3 GPS under construction 1 by EU (Galileo) the other by China (Beidou) and the last by Argentina (Antares).
Proof or yet again you are talking rollocks...... the only Antares I know of makes tracking stuff for trucks...
from wiki...'Other satellite navigation systems in use or various states of development include:
GLONASS – global satellite navigation system maintained by Russia, available worldwide.
Galileo – a global system being developed by the European Union and other partner countries, planned to be operational by 2014
Beidou – People's Republic of China's regional system, currently limited to Asia and the West Pacific[123]
COMPASS – People's Republic of China's global system, planned to be operational by 2020[124][125]
IRNSS – India's regional navigation system, planned to be operational by 2012, covering India and Northern Indian Ocean[126]
QZSS – Japanese regional system covering Asia and Oceania
'
Question for the military men if that's allowed..
Jul 19th, 2012 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the earlier chat lads... about all the hardware. Looking forward, should the scottish referendum return true; does the royal navy lose some of their kit to a would be scottsh navy?
...
54 slabside
Jul 19th, 2012 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0basically no,
There are many military and discussion sites on this subject, that explains why not,
Basically its MONEY ,
She cannot afford it,
And they would basically have to start from scratch,
Buying things is expensive enough,
But unless you can upgrade and fully maintain, they it is a waste of resources .
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
44 Conqueror
Thank you .
.
55 briton
Jul 19th, 2012 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks for that - some folks would be concerned about voting for having no sea defense capability whatsoever..
56 slabside
Jul 19th, 2012 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0look at this,
see what you think.
its just an opinion .
Scroll down to
[McSubmarines’. ]
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00Z&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00Z&max-results=50
thanks
Off topic, sorry.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0For Mr. Conor.
It is well known that foreign trade bans are in those countries (South Sea),least stringent , and that no man not authorized by the King of Spain can trade except for the use of force or stealthily. Any gains to be obtained must be by violence from the rapine, or fraud.
Samuel Johnson, English writer. 1771.
Any resemblance to reality ...
That says an English writer in 1771, in a report commissioned by his government.
Is clearly that Malvinas are not British.
Regards.
@ briton
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:01 am - Link - Report abuse 024 sats (constellation) makes more reliable the system to cover earth but with just 12 you have full coverage.
You just need 3 sats to make the triangulation by getting the identification of the sat and timestamp given by the sat so the receptor can make a “syncro” with sat nuclear clock and calculates distances depending on how long takes the signal.
The Chinese will put 30 sats for their Beidou GPS and they already have 8 sats operational, the Americans just has 24 sats.
EU will put 30 but at the moment are in the stage of testing nuclear clocks and there is only one operational.
So let’s say that will not be EU GPS until 2025 at this rate launching.
In the first stage EU “GPS” will be complementary to US system.
The sats are currently being assembly in Rome (Italy) in Thales Alenia & Telespazio (French/Italian partners) facilities.
“It seems to me, that it is getting pretty well crowded up there,”
Yes will be in near future...
@Frank
And since when I have to prove anything to you idiot?
GPS (Global Positioning System) do you understand what that means?
As I said before only 2 the American and the Russian are operational.
The Chinese in process to be come Global they only need just 4 sats more in space and the rest including the Galileo (Galilei) are in experimental/testing phase.
58 - Cant remember Argentina being a country in 1771!!!!!!!!!! And the land mass that is Argentina was only a tiny percentage of its size today. The native indians still occupied all lands to the south, until the Spanish started ethnic cleansing. Although the first british landing on the islands were in 1690 thats 81 years before your amazing bit of evidence that doesnt mention the Falklands but does mention the Spanish being bullies, some things never change.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0@cLOHO
Jul 20th, 2012 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Cant remember Argentina being a country in 1771”
And I cannot remember any country with the name Falkland even in 2012 and you?
And I cannot remember any country with the name of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 1771 either and you?
And that what proves?
Ah! I know that FI is still an oppressed colony of UKoGBaNI under The United Nations Special Committee of Decolonization.
@59
Jul 20th, 2012 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0'And since when I have to prove anything to you idiot?'
You offensive little bit of pigmy shit.... you said that RG was developing its own GPS system..Antares.... you were talking crap... nothing new there for a peronista ..... back it up sunshine or shut the fuck up...prat
'And there are 3 GPS under construction 1 by EU (Galileo) the other by China (Beidou) and the last by Argentina (Antares). '
Dickhead....
@61
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ah Mr Danny are you moaning again?
“Its sad, so sad...its a sad sad situation.”
You always seem to complain about British this and British that and like the rest of your fellow Argentines and you think this will somehow get you the Falklands. Is this another failure in a long line of failures that successive Argentine People and governments have carried out? All political, military, social etc methods have failed, so give up and get on with your life.
Danny-boy
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who is going to trust an Argentine GPS?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_Kingdom
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 061 - Duny burger
The first recorded landing on the Falkland Islands occurred in 1690, and was made at Bold Cove near Port Howard on West Falkland to replenish the water supplies of British ship 'Welfare' commanded by John Strong, who named the stretch of water between West and East Falkland 'Falkland Sound' after Lord Falkland, who was a financial supporter of Strong's voyage, Treasurer to the Navy and shortly to become First Lord of the Admiralty.
ireland was added to the union in 1800, so iam pretty sure that England , a United Kingdom , the Royal Navy all exisited when the the first British landing took place, whereas Argentina didnt exist!!! you change time or history its a fact.
The Falklands is a self governing overseas territory not a country , fail to see your point.
your clutching at straws again, nobody believes a word you post
DannyB- go and book a flight on Lan in Chile, -every Sat- to Mount Pleasant Airport-MPN - they will tell you where MPN is- in a place called the Falkland Islands.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@59
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And since when I have to prove anything to you ”
You don't have to prove anything, but the Malvinista's inability to prove anything means you cannot win arguments-therefore if you make the effort (if you are capable of doing so) to win those arguments you might be taken seriously. Instead, you are viewed correctly as a joke.
Argentina keeps saying they don't have to prove anything to the world or take any notice of world opinion when it is against them, then complains when the UK ignores them.
If you don't make the effort to PROVE ANYTHING then you have lost an argument as an argument is not won by burying your head in the sand and bypassing it.
@61
“And I cannot remember any country with the name Falkland even in 2012”
Go to the Falkland Islands where all the legal and government documents have the name 'Falkland Islands' blazed all over them.
If the Islands were called the Malvinas or Scraggpaddockpoint land, or Albatrossatina , or WhenIwastherica that's what would be:
1/- On all the signs on the Island.
2/- On all the government paperwork
And guess what? There are:
1/- No Malvinas signs on the Islands
2/-The government is not MIG
3/-The government legal and official paperwork does not have Malvinas on it.
If you don't believe this-go the the islands and see for yourself.
@61
“Ah! I know that FI is still an oppressed colony”
Who is oppressing them? How can they be oppressed if the FIG runs the place?
It is not the UK issuing fishing licences around the FI-it's FIG
It is not the UK issuing oil licences around the FI-it's FIG
The UK has no influence on democratic elections in the FI-the FIG runs them.
The UK wisely, dictates NOTHING to FIG, just supports FIG with military protection against the imperialist state to its west. ie Argentina.
@Frank
Jul 20th, 2012 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you nervous for something?
And what have you proved? Absolutely nothing because you didn’t understand simply.
Global means covering the world while the others as you have pointed out regional so RPS do you understand the difference?
@cLOHO
If you go to a court to defend yourself for a traffic light infraction you will end in jail for the lack of rigor with your self made proofs.
@Pete Bog
“means you cannot win arguments”
Are we in an argument contest? Wow!!!!!!!!!!
I didn’t know that.
And what I will win by defeating you all the time?
And the judges of the contest will be just Conqueror by chance?
Rules please?
@54 Only the stuff that's already got holes in it below the waterline. Going to teach them how to fit wheels and pedals. Then they can call it a submarine!
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@58 The South Sea is in the Pacific. Did you understand “South” or did you just get lucky, dimwit?
@61 Perhaps you should think more about the actions of the State of Buenos Aires. Historically, not part of argieland. Nor is it mentioned as one of the previous names in the argie “constitution” (i.e. gangster pact). Not part of argieland between 1853 and 1860. Strange how the Falkland Islanders don't seem to feel “oppressed”, except by argieland (The Great Slime). Nor does the UN mention “oppressed”.
@68 YOU don't get to “compete” in a “contest”. YOU just get to die. And be turned into fertiliser. With a health warning. “Exceptional levels of sh*t”.
68 DanyBerger (#)
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have stated that you are a businessman, if you run your bussiness like your arguments it will not take 35.7% inflation to bankrupt you, you'll do it all by yourself!!!!!
Duny burger ....and if your sentences made any sense we could all understand you. But unfortunately they don't, and the history you quote is incorrect and lies, if we are in your mythical courtroom your evidence would be thrown out , unless it was an Rg court which makes up its own version of reality to suit its evil plans to steal, lie, decieve.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dannyberger is correct in saying that you need a minimum of 3 sats from the GPS system to get a fix. The Russians used to have a fairly good navigation (and naval targeting) system that has fallen into disrepair. However they are now starting to rebuild it.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The chinese and ESA are still in the experimental stage with sat nav systems.
Here is an interesting bit of info for you - you would'nt think that relativity (Einsteins theories about mass, speed, gravity and space-time interacting) would affect your everyday life. But it does when you use GPS.
There are 2 sets of signals - ground and satellite - the 2 sub systems talk to each other. The movement of the satellites has to be compensated for, as does thier placement in the Earths gravitational field - because gravity and speed affect the rate at which time moves. If this was not done the siganls would in short order become catastrophically unrelaible - you give you readings literrly miles out!
@65 cLOHO: Strong in the sloop de war Welfare. Port Howard. We know the history.Very good, but...
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At that time, 177 years that the islands contained in the maps.
The British admit that Francisco Camargo could land on the islands 150 years before he came Strong.
Read back to Samuel Johnson.
Please support this page - Falkland Islands Desire The Right - dedicated to Falkland Islands current affairs, keeping the islands free and poking fun at the lunacy of the Argentine government and their various claims and winding up their Internet trolls -
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.facebook.com/Britain1592
Desire The Right and the true. If this were true, the islands would be of Argentine again.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 075 ... they have never been argentine, we've been thru this all before, vernet had asked the uk permission to set up an encampment, repeat asked uk permission...1833 Argentina as a country had not yet ethnically cleansed the southern part of the lands they went onto steal on the SA continent, so the proximity arguement goes out the window.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can make up or spout all the propaganda you want, like the lies taught to rg children, shameful...like the nazis indoctranating the German youth against the Jews. The islands are British and there is nothing your humiliated broke country can do about it jajajajajajajaja
75 Malvinense 1833
Jul 20th, 2012 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you dont understand the truth,
because you cant handle the truth,
and if there was any justice in this world, CFK would not be inpower,
The argentine leader is an elected official. Only Argentinians can decide if she stays in power. This idiot's comment is not welcome in this website.
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 075 Malvinese 83
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0such blindness!!! They were never Argentine, even in '82 you were an occupation force, and not a very good one at that!
we would not call 75 Malvinense 1833 an idiot,
Jul 20th, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0just wrong will do.
@73 Malvinense 1833
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0> Read back to Samuel Johnson.
You are confusing reporting and condoning, and in any event Samuel Johnson was neither a member of the British government, nor a paid agent of it.
But are you seriously trying to argue that a rather obscure reference by an 18th century essayist somehow outweighs or justifies an invasion in 1982 resulting in 1000 deaths?
The Royal Navy .
Jul 20th, 2012 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB3QSDu1iX0
The future is ours.
Who will replace, Dauntless
Will it be
Daring
Diamond
Dragon
Or
Defender.
Either way, it’s going to be great news,
.
78 Sfloozy,
Jul 21st, 2012 - 12:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Tell that to Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein, khadafy, Hitler, Archduke Ferdinand... the list goes on, if you don't get rid of her maybe someone will do it for you.
I do not want them angry. Only express an opinion.
Jul 21st, 2012 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0@81 Hans: “Samuel Johnson was neither a member of the British government” Perfect.
Samuel Johnson wrote the essay at the request of the english government. Clearly doubt the discovery british of the islands and mentions that the South Sea is the domain of the king of Spain.
Nothing absolutely nothing to justify a war. I always ask please reach an agreement or understanding for the benefit of future generations.
In a agreement, both parties gain and lose something. However, both parties win the most important thing: Peace.
Regards.
@84
Jul 21st, 2012 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0No no no no no....as always you spin the usual nonsense and this whole peace and love crap. Both sides win and lose? Really? Well according to your user name the only winner is Argentina and the losers are both the United Kingdom and the Falklands. Because after all any “agreement” in your eyes has to result in you lot getting final sovereignty doesn't? So please drop the whole peace act we know exactly what you and your country and its leaders desire; everything while we are left with nothing.
78 Sussie
Jul 21st, 2012 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's the pot calling the kettle black if ever I heard it. FFS! LOL!
Can anyone tell me if Marcos is actually Mike Bingham?
@84
Jul 21st, 2012 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Peace is what you've had since the last war you started.
If you really do want to maintain that peace, then perhaps you should be questioning the whole state sponsored neurosis that led to the war, instead of trawling about in the musings of an 18th century essayist looking for arguments to support an already discredited case.
Nowhere else in the world .....
She's a cracking ship that got the rgs all in a tiss which to me is worth all the money she cost. They know with her Missles they could not try anything, except the trawlers full of protesters which iam sure we will see soon, trying to force a military response.
Jul 21st, 2012 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0@shb
Jul 21st, 2012 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Noblesse oblige!
I’m really glad to know that some people like you have a high intellectual level.
Doesn’t matter if we agree or not in some issues, but you are absolutely right about how the ground signals provide more reliable and accurate data.
: )
Could the Falklands War take place again?
Jul 21st, 2012 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.helium.com/items/2341712-could-the-falklands-war-take-place-again?page=2
Our politeness
Your aggression.
Just a thoughty.
.
@89 The ground signals are sent to the sats , Dumb Bugger, unless you are talking about DGPS..... geez you are thick....tell us again about the RG GPS system, Antares wasn't it? Where are the building that system? Down the back of the shed they are knocking up those nuclear subs in?
Jul 21st, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/no-argentine-demonstration-over-the-falklands-at-the-olympics/
Jul 22nd, 2012 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quiet isn't it :-)
Very quiet.... never mind.... http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Argentines-outraged-over-police-interrogation-3722788.php?
Jul 22nd, 2012 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0'But Verdu told The Associated Press that the problem is nationwide and cannot be blamed on the military junta that ended decades ago. Since Argentina's democracy was restored in 1983, its security forces have killed 3,400 people in custody, “most of them young, poor and dark-skinned,” she said. “It's absolutely an everyday thing in all of Argentina's provinces.” Adolfo Perez Esquivel, a Nobel Peace Prize winner for his work investigating the abuses of the dictatorship, told Radio Salta that abusing suspects is an endemic practice throughout the country's security forces, and that the national government unfortunately limits its human rights policies to what happened between 1976 and 1983.
Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Argentines-outraged-over-police-interrogation-3722788.php?
A promise....We will return
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmqXtMmWolA
“The Falkland Islands have been British sovereign territory since 1765, while Argentina has claimed them since 1833”.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0False. Byron arrived clandestinely, nailed his flag and left. Meanwhile, in Port Louis from 1764 there was a colony belonging to the kingdom of France. Why do you want to change history?.
@84 Conor: Love crap, peace crap, the lesson was not learned :-(
Certainly, Dauntless beautiful baby.
http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/07/23/double-standards/
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0same old, same old :-)
double standars? The answer is obvious. Thanks for the info.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@80 briton, thanks you.
@95: that applies to only one part of the islands, not the islands as a whole, so it's still a moot point. I'd add it's made further irrelevant because you publicly gave up the islands in 1850 and also Spain recognised them as British in the 1860's which, if they recognised them as being legally Argentina's does not make sense except that no-one believes your claims except a few left wing tin pot dictators.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 097 Malvinense 1833
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thats ok.
@94
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some pretty spectacular moustaches in that piece of war porn.
@98 Boovis “that applies to only one part of the islands, not the islands as a whole, so it's still a moot point”. Ahaa! very good! So why do people evicted from Puerto Soledad, why occupied all the islands?
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0His argument is very weak.
I would not say is irrelevant, because the islands were occupied before the arrival of British clandestine. This indicates that the islands does not belong to them.
Before 1850, Britain resign publicly to the islands. In 1648, 1667, 1670, 1713, 1729, 1732, 1763 (It is clear the insignificance or inutility of the acts of Byron and McBride, violating the term of this agreement) 1771, 1790, 1823, 1825, etc, etc,
Spain is irrelevant in 1860, had lost almost all its colonies and new countries emerged.
As briton says, is just a thought.
www.chagossupport.org.uk/sign-the-petition-to-let-the-chagossians-return-2172
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To all our British friends:
- If you believe in democracy respecting human rights.
- If you believe in respecting the right of Chagos Islanders to determine their own future in their home land.
- If you want the UK to stop violating several articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
- If you believe that the indigenous Chagossian, who have suffered for over 45 years, must be allowed to return to their homeland, the Chagos Islands, without further delay.
Sign the petition calling on the British government to work to allow the banished Chagossian people to return home immediately.
The peoples of the world who believes in democracy, human rights and self determination will be thankful.
Thank you!
@102
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've signed it.
Given your support for the Chagossians, will you now also be supporting self-determination for the Falkland Islanders?
@103 Thank You!
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination does not apply to and imported population that by force expelled previous inhabitants. So I won´t.
@104
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Goodness. Inhabitants expelled? Who were they?
@105 Have you signed the petition. Do it for the human rights Chagos Islanders! They were expelled recently (1960-70), just like the argentine authorities from Malvinas en 1833.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for supporting human rights!
@106
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I told you already I signed the petition. Those refugees in Mauritius got a rotten deal, no doubt about it.
Now tell me where the poor Argentine refugees are and I'll send them some blankets.
@104 -Fictional islands
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say, “Self-determination does not apply to and imported population that by force expelled previous inhabitants.”
But the Chagossians were an IMPORTED population, who worked on the Plantations, so you obviously don't support their right to self-determination. Also all but 600,000 of all Argentinians are imported population so by your standards none of them have the right to self-determination either, and they did expell the original inhabitants.
But I suppose the Chagossians didn't expell anyone so maybe that's okay by you, and since the Falkland Islanders didn't expell anyone either it's gratifying to know that you support their right to self-determination too.
CFK Argentine Government .
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To all our Argentine friends:
- If you believe in democracy respecting human rights.
- If you believe in respecting the right of Falkland Islanders to determine their own future in their home land.
- If you want the Argentine government of CFK to stop violating several articles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
- If you believe that the indigenous Falkland islanders , who have suffered for over 150 years, must be allowed to live in peace in their homeland, , without further delay.
Sign the petition calling on the argentine government of CFK to work to allow the Falklanders to live without threats or abuse
The peoples of the world who believes in democracy, human rights and self determination will be thankful.
Thank you
.
101
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0=@98 Boovis “that applies to only one part of the islands, not the islands as a whole, so it's still a moot point”. Ahaa! very good! So why do people evicted from Puerto Soledad, why occupied all the islands?
Only the garrison was expelled
=His argument is very weak.
Argentina’s argument is very weak. It’s based on a Spanish inheritance that never happened
=I would not say is irrelevant, because the islands were occupied before the arrival of British clandestine. This indicates that the islands does not belong to them.
Britain had the prior claim. And France, by declaring its settlement illegitimate, lost any rights as first occupants
=Before 1850, Britain resign publicly to the islands.
Britain has never resigned the Falklands. The newer treaty overrides the older treaties
=In 1648,
1648 Spain accepts its territories are those it holds, relinquishing any claims to territories it doesn’t hold, including the Falklands
=1667,
See 1648, no prior Spanish occupation, therefore no prior Spanish sovereignty.
=1670,
1648
=1713,
Article 8 said to return Spain’s dominions to the way they were during Charles II’s reign (1665-1700). As per 1648, Spain’s dominions did not include the Falklands during his reign
=1729,
1648
=1732,
1648
=1763 (It is clear the insignificance or inutility of the acts of Byron and McBride, violating the term of this agreement)
See 1648, and, what agreement?
=1771,
Status quo ante treaty, did not affect the situation, and Spain had established no valid prior claim.
=1790,
Doesn’t apply, the Falklands are not adjacent to South America,
=1823, 1825, etc, etc,
Recognition of a state doesn’t imply recognition of that state’s territorial claims. And in 1823 and 1825 there was no Argentine presence in the Falklands to recognise
=Spain is irrelevant in 1860, had lost almost all its colonies and new countries emerged.
Relevant to inheritance. Spain only started relinquishing its claims in 1836, didn’t recognise Argentina till 1859/1863.
His first statement is enough to topple the whole lie.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The existence of a garrison in the Malvinas means an act of sovereign government of Argentina. Is not existed by magic.
In 1982 Argentina expelled the British guanición, not their people, then why react so violently?
*Britain had the prior claim. And France, by declaring its settlement illegitimate, lost any rights as first occupants.
France occupies the islands, incorporated into his kingdom. England did not protest.
France first occupant recognize Spanish sovereignty and transfer the islands. England did not protest.
France announced this transfer to the British ambassador in Paris. London did not protest.
The English had hidden their colony at Port Egmont. Never communicated to the other powers.
The incident came when the Spanish seek and find the colony furtive.
can not believe it, look on google earth and tell me if the islands are not adjacent to the mainland ... incredible!!!.
HMS Defender comes to life at portsmouth,
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps a little trip to gibralter, might liven things up a bit .
just a fishy thought
Utrecht 1713: XIV: Her Majesty has agreed to enact strong prohibitions and under the most rigorous penalties on all his subjects so that no ship of the English nation dares to move to the South Sea.( Of course, Spanish territory, includes Malvinas).
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Briton - I just reread your post 42. You mention the thought that it is getting crowded up in the various orbital slots around the Earth - you are correct. There is so much junk in space - ranging from decomissioned satellites to tools lost by Astronauts during EVAs and bits of exploded / spent / burst upper booster stages that sooner or later something will have to be done aboiut it.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some people have even suggested a possible doomsday scenario -a cascade failure whereby one satellite being hit and bursting produces enought debris to set of a chain reaction. This is a bit extreme and unlikely. But I can see space junk impacting on orbital operations for a long time to come.
@islas Malvinas and Malvinese 1833.
What a surprise - you don't actually belive in self determination and I bet you really could'nt give a damn about the chagosians.
Don't forget that it was Spain that first used force in the Falklands - to expel the British colony in 1771.
The colony established by Vernot had asked for our permission to settle. The only thing we objected to was the United Provinces establishing a garrisaon and appointing a governor, thus claiming the place, when we also had an active claim.
Funnily enough the RN showed up to kick out the garrison and haul down your
In 1982 you launched another unprovoked attack on the British community in the Falklands. You planned to ethnically cleanse the islands by forcibly removing all the inhabitants. You killed hundreds of our servicemen in a pointless war.
The Falklands are hundreds of miles off your coast - we could claim the Faeros if we applied your criteria. What about South Georgia - that is even further away! Are you just jealous or something?
So you think that you own the southern hemisphere?
@111
Jul 24th, 2012 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0The principle that islands belong to the nearest adjacent mainland will come as as something of a shock to, inter alia, :
- the Moroccan citizens of Madeira and the Canaries
- the Mauretanian citizens of Cape Verde
- the Indian citizens of Sri Lanka
- the US citizens of Cuba
- the Mozambican citizens of Madagscar
- the French citizens of the United Kingdom and Ireland
- the Canadian citizens of Greenland
etc, etc.
Some of them, I imagine, will be happier than others with their new status.
@113
The Treaty of Utrecht only restored Spanish possessions in the Americas prior to the War of Spanish Succession. Or on other words, it has nothing to do with the Falklands at all.
But this incessant Malvinista digging for arguments in documents written 300 years ago and 100 years before Argentina even existed is really rather revealing. The more it goes on, the more it shows how feeble your case really is.
114 shb
Jul 24th, 2012 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may well be correct,
I remember looking at a discovery program, that compared it to the rings of Saturn, but not as crowded,
But they did suggest that a few companies were trying out various thing to try and [pick them up]
Good luck to them, whoever they may be .
.
@ 115 The difference is that I can mention the agreements show that the islands are not British.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can not mention that agreement allowed Byron to reach the islands.
You can not mention that agreement allowed eject the Argentines on the islands.
You basa in 1592? 241 years in 1833
You basa in 1690? 143 years in 1833
As long as you Great Britain recognized the independence of Argentina, the government concesionaba land, appointed governors, charged tax on foreign fishing.
Britain made no mention to its alleged rights, this is clear because the islands were not his. (british). Until he woke up his imperial ambition.
Anyway I still hope to reach an agreement sometime.
@117
Jul 24th, 2012 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Show me the agreement that says the Falklands are Argentine.
@ Hans, You did not answer.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Answer what?
Jul 24th, 2012 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The entire Falklands saga has been debated here (and elsewhere) ad nauseam, and it is perfectly clear that the Argentine case is no more than an attempt to claim a Spanish inheritance that was never left to you.
Bur all this historical nitpicking is completely irrelevant anyway. The determining date in the whole story is not 1592, 1690, 1771, or 1833, it is 1982. Nobody is going to repel an invasion with the loss of 1000 lives on both sides and then act as if nothing happened because somebody has come up with an obscure new interpretation of the Treaty of Utrecht.
Why do I always see the same historical crap which the Argies keep drumming up? Always coming up with some unclear and dubious history which means nothing today. I know this has been said a quillion times but Argentina are made from the same history as the Falkland Islanders..... The product of imperialism. I am addicted to this website now because I cannot believe how utterly stupid and stone headed some Argentinian folk can be. Even if the lord God himself came down from heaven and told them to leave the FI's in peace they still wouldn't relent. Guess that's what a neo Nazi, brainwashed indoctrination does to some folk eh!
Jul 24th, 2012 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yep
Jul 24th, 2012 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0[indocrination sounds just right ]
@177 EERRR - WRONG AGAIN.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 10:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The British gave Vernot permission to set up his colony. He went out of his way to get it because he was aware of our claim and was concerned that increasing British activity in the area in the future may have come into conflict with his settlement. He actually asked for Brritain protection as well.
We lodged strong complaints with your govt when the garrison was established and you raised yout flag - claiming the place- and appointing a governor. You were warned......................
Why don't you try to get some tribal cave paintings to back up your claims next, or perhaps some treaty with the Romans.
@ Briton - The way ahead in access to LEO is a single stage to orbit spaceplane, have a look at SKYLON on the internet - it's a British concept. I would rather the £12 billion spent on the olympics had been spent making SKYLON a viable system - and revolutionising our advanced industries.
@123
Jul 25th, 2012 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here here, That Skylon plane is an incredible and astonishing piece of British Engineering and design your right an extra £12 billion and Britain could man independent space missions.
Britannia could, dare I say it....rule the stars! Now that would be one hell of a patriotic anthem.
@ 115 - 120 Hans: You did not answer what are the arguments to expel the Argentine part of our country.
Jul 25th, 2012 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Many people went with Captain Pinedo (highest authority at the time) on his boat.
The people who stayed in the islands does not legalize the British encroachment.
During World War 2, London was bombed by the Germans. Today they are friends and allies.
So, why the UK does not want to talk to Argentina?
Answer: Because they know their historical mistake and does not know or will not desire fix it.
You are confused. That list is out of context.
You must mention the treaty of 1790 and the outlook is different.
In addition the people of France did not expel the British.
U.S. citizens did not expel the Cubans.
The Canadians citizens did not expel to Greenland citizens
Do not be dishonest.
@ 125
Jul 25th, 2012 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Try living in the current year 2012. You have a resource rich country with plenty of land, gas and oil. Stop trying to legitimise wanting to claim some tiny islands 300 miles from Patagonia's coast which would be little or no benefit to anybody in Argentina.
I wish the would send HMS Dauntless on an unannounced visit to Buenos Aires and flatten the rancid hole to the rapturous applause of all Argentina's neighbours.
Jul 25th, 2012 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0@125
Jul 25th, 2012 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/2012/07/24/snub-or-climb-down/
“Argentina spuriously accuses Britain of having seized the Falkland Islands from them in 1833, even though the British claim goes back to 1765. What really happened was that the pretensions of Buenos Aires to the Islands became known in 1829 and Argentina was given a diplomatic warning to stay away from the British territory. They ignored this, and in 1832, sent an armed garrison to seize control. The Royal Navy sent two ships who suggested that the garrison leave. They did so without bloodshed. Argentina tried for the second time in 1982, and as a result, nearly 1000 young soldiers, sailors and airmen lost their lives.”
I tink that's clear and succinct.
The UK can be friends with Germany because Germany is a stable, responsible democracy which has renounced its fascist past and its former territorial pretensions.
Both the UK and the FIG have repeatedly stated their willingness to talk to Argentina on any matter except sovereignity, which matter is closed unless and until the islanders decide otherwise. See the upcoming referendum. The matter of sovereignity is closed, of course, not because of Dan Brown discoveries in documents of the 18th century, but because the 1982 Argentine war of aggression has made any other position impossible.
The numerous examples of islands in the world which do not belong to the nearest adjacent mainland country show quite clearly that proximity does not make sovereignity.
123 shb
Jul 25th, 2012 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thanks for that info,
i will look at it.
@94
Jul 25th, 2012 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And when will you return?
@ 128 Hans: 1765? Pardon the islands were occupied already. Byron came secretly to the islands, as a pirate.
Jul 27th, 2012 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine claims dating back to 1820 with possession. This was documented by The Times.
In 1982, Argentina regained the islands with the regrettable loss of one life. He was an Argentine navy. No British soldier was killed or settlers.
The plan was to take the islands to negotiate and begin withdrawing troops within 5 days.
Incredibly, the Royal Navy, enlisted in record time their ships.
London knew the Argentine plan and did not stop him?
Argentina has no territorial claims, his territory was usurped. I recall that the aggressor was the United Kingdom in 1833.
Nowhere in the South Pacific and South Atlantic, the UK had colonies, which was banned by treaty.
Only Malvinas, after an act of force.
Today is an overseas territory obtained in a way dishonorable.
The United Kingdom also defends with Dan Brown documents. Remember to Samuel Johnson, discovery???, occupation??? No.
british lies have short legs.
Regards.
@128
Jul 27th, 2012 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1765? Pardon the islands were occupied already”
Yes, by France at Port Louis in 1764.
Not by Argentina.
Spain took over the French claim in 1766, one year later than 1765.
After the peace treaty signed by Britain and Spain in 1771, both sides retained claims.
In 1810, Spain did not give up its claims to the Islands-it did so in the mid 1800s. Therefore Argentina could not have inherited Spanish claims to the Islands , as Spain continued to claim the East Island , until its claim was dropped.
“Argentine claims dating back to 1820 with possession”
British claims date from 1765 with possession, that's 55 years earlier.
”The plan (regarding 1982) was to take the islands to negotiate and begin withdrawing troops within 5 days.”
UN resolution 502 asked for the withdrawal of military forces-Argentina refused this and their forces had to be ejected.
The UK supported the Peruvian peace plan which envisaged a UN force occupying the Islands.
Argentina rejected ths.
Argentina rejected all compromise which inevitably led to the UK rejecting compromise.
Argentine territory was not usurped in 1833. Vernet's settlers were there with the permission of the UK who protested when the UP ot RP garrison arrived in November 1832. Britain had not dropped its claim on the Islands, so it could not logically 'invade' its own territory
The UP ot RP garrison was not made up of a majority of South Americans, but were 80% British Mercenaries. That's why they refused to fight Captain Onslow when he landed in 1833.
So ironically the people that were allowed to stay were mainly of South American origin, (ie they preferred British rule to South American rule, especially the slaves that were freed), and the garrison that was expelled was ......80% British.
“Nowhere in the South Pacific and South Atlantic, the UK had colonies, which was banned by treaty.”
This is interesting. Tell us more. Which treaty banned the UK having colonies in the South Pacific and South Atlantic?
@131
Jul 27th, 2012 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see any benefit to anybody in going yet again through the events of 1833. It is perfectly clear to anybody who takes the time to study these events and the preceding history that the Malvinista version is an article of faith rather than a reasoned historical analysis.
And I'm sorry to say I can't sympathise any more with your contention that the 1982 invasion was a mere 5-day excursion that went wrong thanks to wicked Brit perfidy. You had plenty warning and many more than 5 days to remove your 10,000 short break trippers before the Task Force got there, as well as a mandatory UN resolution telling you to do precisely that. But you preferred to stick around with the APCs and the holiday napalm you brought with you, and the minefields you must have laid by mistake.
Curious also that Amaya's plan called, not for a cheery wave goodbye after 5 days, but for the ethnic cleansing of all the islanders, while Lami Dozo later stated that the next stage of the plan was to attack Chile. But maybe that was just a misunderstood excursion too.
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