MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Gibraltar demands action from UK, after latest incident with Spain’s Guardia Civil
The Gibraltar government has told the UK that 'the time has now come for action, not simply written protests from London to Madrid' in defence of British Gibraltar Territorial Waters, following the latest incident where a Gibraltar vessel was boarded by the Guardia Civil in Gibraltar waters 'and forcibly conveyed' together with its occupants to Algeciras 'at high speed and without navigational lights.' Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesPossibly publicly and noisily send back Ranger and Trumpeter? I can't see the Spanish practically complaining, as they were both posted there before.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0What point HMS Ranger and Trumpeter? Although they are twice the size of the Scimitar class. How about a Type 23 frigate and a squadron of the Army's Apache helicopters? The frigate's own helicopter(s) would also be useful. The important thing is to have the will to respond or, if necessary, return fire. This last being necessary as it was only 16 July when a Guardia Civil vessel pursued and fired on a Gibraltar private pleasure craft for no known reason.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Send a couple of T45's on to say hello to the locals.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2 Conqueror
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0The idea is to send a clear enough message without creating too much in the way of diplomatic paperwork/headache. It's a fine line, and I think a squadron of attack helecopters might be a little bit on the far side of it to be practical.
@3 Boovis
I think Diamond's shake-down voyage was already to Gibraltar. Dragon must be nearly due for hers too...
Send a couple of ships and detain every guarda vessel they see who look like they are even thinking about entering Gibraltan waters. Arrests the crew, sink the vessel. Release the crew in Algeria or Morroco.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0The way Spain's economy is they won't be able to replace these vessels very quickly. So the Gibraltan waters would be safe.
Job done, all home for tea and medals! ;0)
On a serious note, the Gibratlarians are right. The UK government needs to send a clear message to the Spanish that this behaviour is piracy and as pirates their crews will be treated if caught in Gibraltan waters. Their vessels will be seized and either given to Gibraltar to bolster their own fleet or held until Spain pays a fine to the Gibraltan government to get them back. How much that would be would obviously be up to the Gibraltans.
Spain should be placed on a list of places not to be visited by British tourists, and their economy would be fecked, as millions of Brits holiday in Spain every year. On the other hand, Greece would love the increase in tourists to their shores right now.
Also take this to the UNSC and NATO and tell Spain it will get spanked if it doesn't behave. For instance immediate forclosure on all it's debts. Spain would sink into oblivion if that happened.
Wow! How many brilliant ideas you guys have.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about relocating all British Gibratlarians back to Britain and returning Gribraltar back to Spain?
Patience ... the Brits always know what they are doing in these matters ... maybe just enough rope for the Spanish to hang themselves.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't underestimate British brinkmanship, it is the best in the World!
We won't drag the UK to war for every little instance ... nor will Spain, these are two mature European countries.
@6 - Fictional Islands.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You show your ignorance. The majority of Gibratans are of Spanish descent not British and they DON'T want to be part of Spain. I wonder why?
Gibraltar has belonged to the British for 300 years. Spain only ever had Gibraltar for about 150-200 years. Before this Gibraltar and most of southern Spain belonged to the Moors. Yes what is now Morocco and Algeria.
Using your logic Spain should return all the land the Moors used to control back to these 2 countries. I'm sure you'll agree.
Then you Argentinians can give back the land you stole from the Amerindians, namely Argentina itself.
The fact is that Spain is acting illegally and needs to be reminded of that.
@6: I'm with post 8 on this one, you clearly know nothing about the history or even the current politics of Gibraltar, if you even gave a damn about whoever a place's original inhabitants might be you wouldn't even be in South America so I suggest you shut up now for fear of looking like a hypocrite.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The need for a fishing agreement is needed NOW!!
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#6 “Spain should be placed on a list of places not to be visited by British tourists”
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're having a laugh! Who'd enforce that one then? We are meant to be a democracy after all...
#8 “The majority of Gibratans are of Spanish descent not British and they DON'T want to be part of Spain. I wonder why?”
So do I. There was a long period between the end of the Francoist nightmare and the onset of this economic crisis. It really does seem completely irrational
“Using your logic Spain should return all the land the Moors used to control back to these 2 countries. I'm sure you'll agree”
I do, if you mean Cueta and Melila
@4 You need to think about what is practicable. Let's say we send a Type 23 or even a Type 45. They are big. Unless they are on constant patrol, and how exciting would a patrol down the eastern side, round Europa Point, up the western side and back, be, how much time to get into action? So they would be pretty restricted to use of their helicopters and boarding RHIBs. However, an Apache could be “on the scene” in minutes. Check out its armament http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Specifications_.28Apache_AH1.29 Think about what a Hellfire missile could do to a Guardia Civil boat! But I reckon the chain gun could cut a GC vessel in half. And then the Apache could be replaced by another with complete armament. Let's just imagine this “incident” with Apaches on hand. Two Apaches take off and, flying at speeds 5 times that of the GC vessel, they get ahead of it and then warn it to stop or be fired on. What do you think a GC boat would do? It's true that we might have to shoot up a couple to persuade them that we're serious. But then they started the shooting. Do you recall that saying “Live by the sword, die by the sword”? Spain has drawn and used the sword. Now Spain needs to have a British sword shoved up its ar*e. And we should consider the wider aspects. We could ask Odyssey Marine to come in and determine exactly where the bits of the GC boats are. Information we could sell to the Spanish. If we felt like it. On the other hand, perhaps we could replace BGTW (British Gibraltar Territorial Waters) with an electronically-controlled minefield. Anything Spanish ventures into BGTW, turn on the minefield and watch the firework display. Complete with burning GC puppets or their parts. Before you accuse me of being (excessively) warlike, I ask again “Who started it?” If some guy walked up to your wife, your sister, your mother in the street and punched them in the face, breaking their nose, etc, what would you do?
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0spain has pushed us into a corner,
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the world waits to see the responce,
CFK gets ready with her plans,
and the british goverment is, ???????????????
when the time comes, you either inforce your presents in your own waters,
or you let them walk all over you,
have we lost to ability to defend our own,
mr camaron, over to you.
full stop.
The trouble is that this story hasn't even made the news in the UK so suddenly shooting up a load of poverty stricken Spaniards may be seen as poor form.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are stealing the fish because they are desperate - we should leave the poor fellows be and chuck a couple of quid in the begging bowl for them.
I think a more entertaining response would be for MI6 to simultaneously detonate bombs on GC vessels in Spain, Ceuta and Melilla and then release a message through Al Jazeera for an obscure Moroccan terrorist group claiming responsibility. That would really f**k with their heads.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 Idlehands
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you on something? This is uncharacteristic of you!
How about the Gibraltarians fish stocks? The Spanish fishing fleet has over-fished most other places and now it wants Gibraltars.
@14 - Idlehands
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You appear to be very generous with someone elses property. Why should Gibraltar suffer because of Spanish over fishing?
Remember this story is about the Spanish illegally seizing a Gibrltan vessel in Gibraltan waters.
That's piracy, and the Spanish should be treated as such if they try it again. Right now the UK Government should be demanding an immediate apology from the Spanish Government to be directed to the Gibraltan government.
If none is forthcoming then the next Spanish vessel that tries its luck should be considered a pirate and treated accordingly; crew arrested and charged with piracy, the vessel impounded at the pleasure of the Gibraltan government.
If they started to impound all Spanish ships that are illegally in giblatarian waters,
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then they will
Either stop coming, [run out of boats]
Or
They will call in the Spanish navy,
Then the Spanish navy, [to intervene] would have to enter giblatarian waters,
Then the ROYAL NAVY can ?????
You can see where this is leading,
Lets hope the Spanish, can also see where this is leading .
While you are at it - why dont we send all the Spanish in England back to Spain! And see how their economy likes that.
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0isnt that right Islas Malvinas
Islas Malvinas
Jul 23rd, 2012 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just poses the questions,
He never gives answers.
That takes, the truth
Something he knows not ..
.
6 Islas Malvinas “What about relocating all British Gibratlarians back to Britain and returning Gribraltar back to Spain? ”
Jul 24th, 2012 - 02:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brilliant idea.
Marcos you great Tit!!
Jul 24th, 2012 - 03:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please comment on the following:
The Gibraltans comprise prodominatley of ethincally mixed Genoese Italian, Maltese, Portuguese and Andalusian Spanish, British, Moroccan and Indian. the largest group being of Spanish decent!
So Simian marcos, it seems you prove your stupidity once again!!!
THE QUESTION HERE IS NOT RELOCATING ANYBODY ANYWHERE.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people of Gibraltar have all the right to remain where the are without being sent anywhere. The question is a compromise of some sort that would be agreed by the English and Spanish governments in relation to the colony. For example converting Gibraltar into an autonomous region within Spain with all the rights the people of Gibraltar have now as an example. Which is better than the people of
the English colony of Diego De Garcia got.
@23
Jul 24th, 2012 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its British not English mr Sunshine and Gibraltar isn't a colony as it is self governing-which is the exact opposite of a colony
@21 Have you heard of “the law”? Gibraltar was ceded to Britain by Spain in perpetuity. Is “perpetuity” too long a word for you? No matter where you go there'll always be an argie criminal. Here's a thought. LET'S SHOOT THE LOT!! Problem solved. Actually, LET'S SHOOT ALL LATINOS.
Jul 24th, 2012 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23 Displaying your ignorance again, dumb and dumber. The people of Gibraltar do not wish to be Spanish. Their response, determined several times, is on the level of “vomit and crap”. Preferably on one or more Spaniards. And who are these “people of Diego Garcia”? There have never been any “people of Diego Garcia”. There is no fresh water on Diego Garcia. Nor on the entire Chagos archipelago. Therefore human life would be impossible without outside support. Nor was Diego Garcia ever an “English colony”. To be an “English colony” it would have had to be mostly inhabited by people from England. Never happened. In fact, the “inhabitants” were contract labourers for a Mauritian company. Descendants of African slaves imported by the French. Not one ever owned a single grain of sand or speck of earth. Britain bought the archipelago, quite legally. However, not being a slave owner, Britain was not responsible for the trespassers. Kindly, Britain paid the government of Mauritius to resettle the people. Being as bent as a nine-bob note, the Mauritius government pocketed the money and did nothing. Even so, Britain has paid out even more money to try to get the people resettled. See what a fool you look when you repeat stories you heard at the bar when you were pissed! And you were a dumb fool before!
@25
Jul 24th, 2012 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“LET'S SHOOT ALL LATINOS.
@23 Displaying your ignorance again”
Oh the irony! Black pot, kettle calling.
FYI: we are not “latinos”.
Latin was the language of the Romans. The very same Romans that humiliated you English in battle and raped your women as they pleased. The same Latins who dominated you for hundreds of years. (not the Scots, they stood their own).
The English are Latin descendants and Latin was your official language for centuries, even after you ceased to be Roman serfs.
If you are English, you are a lot more “Latino” than you might like to think.
So shoot away and watch out for your foot!
@25 You don´t know what the British government did with the natives of
Jul 24th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the island Of Diego Garcia back in the 70s??!! Read up on the net and
see what the British Government did with the natives and you
will see that when other interests are at hand the natives are second
class citizens to the British Government. The original natives that Britain sold out are called
Chagos Islanders and they are fighting in the courts to be allowed
to resettle in their islands. Really conqueror I thought you were
wiser my man!! Oh and the Spanish don´t want any English
colony in their country so be prepared for the Guardia Civil to be
arresting more Gibraltans. Don´t forget read up on Diego GArcia
don´t try to change history.
26 Condorito
Jul 25th, 2012 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said.
@ 26 Condorito
Jul 25th, 2012 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Latin was your official language for centuries”
No it wasnt! You have absolutley no factual bases to even make this comment!
The Britons retained their own language, and assimulated into the Roman life quite rapidly due a clever ploy by the Romans to reward tribal leaders and influential Britons with trips to Rome where they could experience, and benefit from the wealth, increased political status, etc!
Influencial britons basically franchised the Roman life and did so very well. So well in fact that after the fall of the Roman empire, the Britons still reatined a Roman like currency and way of life! The Britons at the time were split into many different tribal bases throughout the country, all with a distinct dialect and in cases (Present day Cornwall, and Cumbria) spoke a completley different language, that if a northerner met a southerner, they would not have understood each other.
The vast majority of Roman Solidiers and their commanders were not of Roman birth, rather being from different parts of the Roman Empire (Spainish stock being one of the largest contributors)! They will have used Latin, however amongst themselves will have used their own mother tongue!
The biggest contributor to Latin entering the British language was the Catholic Church, and that was only spoken in Religious circles etc.
To sum up, the Romans were clever throughout their empire not to try and enforce a language on a people! People adopted it as a second language but nothing more!
@29 Brit,
Jul 25th, 2012 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My factual basis is correct.
You are confusing “official” and “vernacular”.
The vernacular language of English tribes continued to be their pre-Roman languages. The official language was Latin. The official language refers to the language of the authorities and their institutions.
Long after the fall of Rome, Latin continued to be used by the educated and religious elite.
Anyway, my point was that England was dominated by true Latinos for 400 years and their influence is indelibly marked in your history and language.
Point taken in so far as the legal system was in Latin, however once the tribal britons had been succumbed by the Roman forces, the local chiefs etc kept hold of their power and would have continued to use their own tongue, in legal matters.
Jul 26th, 2012 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Roman empire united many different cultures and peoples through trade, military service or the administration of government. Even in the forts and towns of distant provinces Greek, Hebrew, or Coptic might be spoken. Greeks, Jews, Syrian, Egyptians, and north Africans could rub shoulders with Britons, Gauls and Germans. Although Latin was the language of Roman society in the West and Greek in the East, many local people would have continued to use their native tongue. In Britain, Latin was the language of law, and Roman culture, however Celtic British undoubtedly continued to be used in the family, with many rural communities, especially those situated in the north of England, speaking very little Latin, if any at all.
It was not dominated by true latins for 400 years - that is absolute fiction and I ask you to illustrate proof! Also what do you consider a true Roman????
However i do agree that Roman culture made an indelible mark on British History, but I think you will find that the Saxons and Danes left a far hefty mark, both in terms of language and genetics!
After the fall of the ROman Empire (except some words that may have been absorbed into local Celtic languages) the local Celtic languages continued and strengthed - Law and Education and the use of Latin was not to do with Romans setting foot in Briton, it was based on religion, as the Christian writings were brought via roman culture to British shores and it was the religious peoples who were fundamental in establishing eductional orders, law etc etc etc
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