MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
YPF after Chinese cooperation for development of Vaca Muerta shale deposits
Federal Planning Minister Julio de Vido announced that several members of the Argentine Government would be flying to China in September in order to close several cooperation agreements between Chinese oil companies and YPF, intended to deepen the bilateral relations. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWill be interesting to see if the Argentinian State YPF/Government allow the Chinese the same opportunity to get a return on their investment that it gave to 'Spanish' Repsol.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Chinese could get 'quite upset'.
Isnt this the type of hydrocarbon that has some pretty unpleasant environmental actions involved in its extraction?
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not that environmental issues would be much concern for either of these countries.
Yes - it simply devastates the land from which it is extracted. They should go for it.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't Toby say they don't need or want Int'l investment? That they can do it all on their own? Hmm I guess reading 6-8 foreign newspapers a day he's not able to keep up with his own country's news.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Chinese have to be just as worried as every other company, why spend Multi U$ BILLIONS, Waste Time, Devote Precious Resources to something that can be taken away by Presidential decree “FOR THE GOOD OF THE PEOPLE”. They obviously see that RGs don't honor contracts or treaties. So why put up the U$ for no return? Hmm why?
It will be interesting to see how this develops.
We have locations here in the states when water is turned on from the faucet, the water is highly flammable. This is because when the shales and rock is fractured, there is no way to control the amount of rock that is fractured. Often times this fracturing leads to underground aquafiers and the trapped gasses enter the water systems.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0There was a documentary about that where some chap “lit” the water with a cigarette lighter as it came out of his tap. Spooky to watch.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hmmm didnt we read a similar annocunemnt 3 wekes ago about YPF approching US investors for the same thing. I guess they got told no by the US. Oh well they will now try China, who may just invets but they will want a very heavy price. My guess is they will ask for mineral concessions.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If CFK needs investment in YPF why the hell did she nationilse the company from Repsol who had the money and were quite prepared to inevst in the Vaca Muerta project. The current situation of having to go cap in hand to any and all govements for investment is the bigegst decleration of failure by the CFK camp on the decison to nationilse YPF. Yes it is not now owned by Spain, nbow it is owned by China and Venezula.
It was and it is scary shit. We are trying to get some type of control and regulation over the process. The process of hydrofracting actually developed from water well drillers. The concept being you fracture the rock and water will seep it's way into the drilled area. Again there is no way to control what fractures.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 the idea that this is a compeltly random process I am afraid is nonsense. The fracutring is controlled by eaxmaining the difference in confining pressures to the shale level and only using water at a pressure that will only effect the shale level. In many cases the aquifeir (the soil/rock layer in which the ground water flows) is seperated from the shale layer by an aquitard (a soil/rock layer with a low hydralic conductivity) which prevents the mixing of ground water and hydrocarbons.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true that the hisotrical process was very hit and miss but the technqiue is being refined daily and has now been used succesfuly in many countries. The trick is to have sutible regulations such as those the US EPA are currently devloping.
Captain, The guy lighting his water on fire has been doing that since the 50s long before fracking existed. It was proved it had nothing to do with the nearby gas extraction. Those videos were produced by envior-nazis that want us to go back to the pre-combustible engine.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I freely admit I am no engineer/geologist, but it has caused some significant problems here. As in the early years of Nuclear industry, I am sure the process will get safer. There are many states, NY, VT. The North East is fairly densely populated. The states have complete rights over the Feds here on this particular issue, even throm the state level, if allowed the locals can deny the process.
There are many lawsuits over this process. And many are the companies themselves suing communites to frac. I really do think that communities themselve can and should be able to determine who wand what can be done on their land. I had a well in the first place I built, a deep water well. But it was surrounded by 150 ft of clay and another 60 ft of arcose. An old Lake Hitchcock all underwater now. Not every has their wells naturally protected.
Engineer,
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It might not be random, but it is only recently that fracking has become so wide spread.
In the UK, Cuadrilla Resources has accepted that its operations caused a small tremor. That’s the very seismically stable UK. I live in the world’s most seismically active country across the border from Mendoza province and would not be happy about fracking being used here.
They should tread very carefully before applying this technique to seismically active areas. Mendoza itself is prone to earthquakes.
4 Yankee
The Chinese haven’t gone soft like the West. If Argentina pulled a repsol style stunt on the Chinese, the RGs could expect to see more power cuts than normal and cyber attacks on its infrastructure. I understand that some western govt have to expend a lot of resource defending themselves against Chinese cyber attacks. I doubt Argentina is adequately protected in this realm.
@12 Yes, fracking caused the earth to move here and was halted for a while. It has been given the go-ahead again - there are huge gas reserves - probably because it is the north of England and that doesn't count. (Joke)
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With or without the Chinese presence, the exploitation of Vaca Muerta is going to be very, very complicated because of the environmental problems involved with fracking.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All these environmental issues can be solved, BUT it is going to cost a great deal of money to do it, and CFK is determined that the well head price of the barrel should not go over US$42.
At that price the Chinese are not even going to come to look at the site and no sane US/EU/UK/Canadian, etc. country will get involved with that sort of price.
So the only possibility that CFK has is Don Hugo, who can probably swing the investment money which will only be another nail in his coffin (with appologies to Think).
Thats what I feel. @42 capped barrel, I can't imagine what RG gave to them if they really come. Extracting shale is not cheap or easy process. In the US, the break even estimate cost is around 50 to 54 a barrel. There is no busy or logical reason for China to go to RGland unless China keeps most all of it and throws them crumbs, like 5% of the extraction
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 014 Simon,
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Environmental regulations are much more voracious when there is a foreign company to shake down.
I am sure YPF will manage to meet all environmental concerns, one way or another ;)
2
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite funny you mention that. Repsol are about to produce unconventional oil on USA, if you are to believe themselves, that is...
http://www.repsol.com/es_en/corporacion/prensa/notas-de-prensa/ultimas-notas/20122011-repsol-producira-hidrocarburos-no-convencionales-en-eeuu.aspx
Quite amusing how you Brits/Yanks/Westerners live after 'Do as I say and not as I do' ;)
#17 jizz
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Enlighten me how this is contra to “do as I say not as I do”. What is illegal here and what law is a cabinet member breaking?
17. What?! Your statement makes no sense.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On the other hand thanks Cristina obviously Repsol has a bit more cash to put into the USA! Free markets work.
I'm not as free as a market boy as you yankee and not particularly thrilled about them drilling in my country, even if it's only the south.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was just pointing out $ goes where profit can be made and that is obviously not in People's Republic of Argentina.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Absolutely, I agree. I really would have loved to hear the speech she gave to those oilmen when she went to the UN, as she asked them to invest for the good of Argentina.
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 018
Aug 02nd, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#2 was having a go at Arg for drilling unconventional oil, I was merely showing him you westerners do the same :)
I get that, but what does that have to do with#17's statement about Brits and Americans living by ” do as I say, not as I do ?
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bit of advice, Julio.
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't try to cheat the Chinese. lol
@25
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think (me that is, not the liar The Turnip In Chief) that the Chin are likely to be taken in by this bunch of no-hopers.
IF the Chin invest in Argentina and especially the 'oil',I would be very worried if I were The Mad Bitch Of Argentina that my 'colleagues' would screw things up leading to all sorts of financial and other troubles for ME.
We all now it is ME, ME, ME with the stupid bitch.
China might soon Get permits to drill in Malvinas Argentina for oil and fishing rights too. In time they might even share nuclear and stealth technologies.
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha, ha.
Prat,
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where are the “Malvinas”? can't see them on any map here in Chile.
Is that your Argie stealth technology already deployed!!
Malvinas Low Observable Islands. JAJAJAJA.
16 Condorito (#)
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure you're right, if we can change our Constitution so easilly, I don't think our evironmental laws will be any problem!!!!!
#7 “If CFK needs investment in YPF why the hell did she nationilse the company from Repsol”
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because they weren't investing. Do keep up
#14 “So the only possibility that CFK has is Don Hugo, who can probably swing the investment money which will only be another nail in his coffin”
Why??
#31
Aug 03rd, 2012 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Investing, look always you know nothing, why are you breathing. With production costs easily hitting 40 a barrel and crude capped by the disgusting bovine, KFC, 42 a barrel. The remainder was for the government and taxes. Need a calculator?
That cancer stick of a pig has financial woos himself. They export crude but cannot refine it. Almost all their petrol, gasoline and refined oil is imported from the USA. Now that fat shining armor is coming to save the day by extracting shale oil with is even more expensive to get? PALEASE! Venezula is now rationing gas because they cannot afford to keep buying itat market prices, despite being a major OPEC country.
Go back in your hole BK and by the trator to your nation that you are and we all love hating.
#27
Aug 06th, 2012 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0China has huge oil deposits in its own territorial waters in the S.China seas.
Why should they want to take the risk of drilling in Argentine waters with a dodgy govt. as partners ?
“In time they might even share nuclear and stealth technologies”
I thought that your navy and air force had stealth technology as they appear to be invisible !
Why do you need China to share nuclear technology with you.
You always assert that you can manufacture H-Bombs, Nuclear Submarines, delivery systems etc. on your own.
Again, why would China help you with this. What advantage would there be to them to have another nut case adolescent country with nuclear weapons on the loose. By your own words, you would wish to use one on the Falklands or, if you could paddle your canoe 8,000 miles, use one on the UK.
Do you seriously think China would help you with this ?
Dream on !!!!!
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