MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Correa recalls the UK non extradition of Pinochet on “humanitarian reasons”
Ecuador's President Rafael Correa said that Britain's failure to extradite former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet more than a decade ago means it has no right to lecture others over the fate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesPresident Correa
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Britain has no right to lecture others”
Amen.
What it's taken Correa more than a week to come up with this? Whoever his advisors should be fired! I mean, even the malvinistas were bleating on about this from about day 2.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure that Chile is thrilled with his comments, considering that is was the government of Chile who didn't want Pinochet extradited to Spain.
That's right Ecuador. Continue to p!ss off your neighbours, and supposed LATAM supporters. Although those 'supporters' have been rather quiet haven't they? I mean one would think that they would've all jumped on the bandwagon to have a go at the UK and USA. But their lack of enthusiasm must be telling on Correa, and now he's floundering.
But then Chile and many other LATAM countries have never supported you over this none issue, and eventually you will realise that you've been stuck with this lemon, who is already serving a prison term, and the British and Swedish authorities don't have to pay for his keep, the taxpayers of Ecuador do.
I give it another couple of weeks before Ecuador realise that they have lost more than they have gained, open the door and boot Assange out.
Hey! Correa, Wot? still no dialogue. Nasty little Brits still not talking to you? You wanted him mate you got him. When you get bored with him, just push his ass out the front door and let a civilised democracy show you how you behave in realtions with other “normal” nations.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0He's wanted for a sex crime by sweden.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0The well known lap dog of the USA.
Oh wait they are not.
Ecuador a Safe Space for rapists
Correa. “Operator, connect me to the British Foreign office,”
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Operator. “Please insert 100 pesos in the slot.”
Background sound “Clink, clink, clink.
Operator. ”Sorry caller, the Foreign Office has blocked your number, please try another call box.”
Lol at Ecuador doing the prison job for the UK & Sweden and paying for it whilst having one man single handily destroying its reputation.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0It states the UK can't lecture anyone on human rights whilst amorally protecting a sex offender, oh the hypocrisy....
Way to destroy all respect on an international stage Ecuador, this will most certainly affect your country economically, keep going and you'll be seen a mini Argentina with this sort of illogical and despicable behaviour.
Assange will win the day... when he's old and frail and has a note from the doctor.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very well said Correa =)
Aug 24th, 2012 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No matter which side of the political spectrum Correa is, & for what he may or may not stand for, he has spoken the truth on this.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pinochet was not extradited until the Spanish government demanded it for crimes of murder.
Yet our home government want to get tough on JAssange over a not proven rape charge.
Why won't the Swedish govt:-
1) lnterview JA at the Ecuadorian Embassy.(is that too difficult?)
2) Give a guarantee that they will not send him to the USA.(are they planning to do so?)
The high moral ground or are we obeying Washington's orders?
Very well said, indeed Señor Correa.
A Grân-Bretanha tem que ir ao dialgo com o Equador para criarem uma solução para resolverem o caso do sir.Assange
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0#10
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0English please !
I think the Foreign Office should just shut up and ignore the whole matter. Why bother talking to Correa, all he wants is to score political points. Hague was stupid hinting about entering the embassy to remove Assange. Anyone with half a brain could have anticipated the outcome.
Whatever the matter, the most of Latam have a thinly disguised dislike of the “west” . As the USA is too powerful, they take it out on the UK by proxy.
The only two disagreements I have with S.A. are the Falklands and the destruction of the rain forests - the latter is the one that will affect everybody when the climate irrevocably changes.
Apart from that, I have no interest in what they do..
If Assange wants to sit in the Ecuadorian embassy, let him.
He's doing me no harm there. If he comes out , he can be arrested and sent to Sweden - let them deal with it !
What humanitarian grounds would apply to Assange? He didn't even bother taking his case to the ECHR.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Correa can only take the moral high ground after Barankov is released from prison and the deal with Belarus is revoked.
well, well, well .. sometimes I do not understand how the UK puts itself in such contradictory position. Ms. Margaret Thatcher's government, under the guise of “defending freedom” of the islanders against the grip of the dictatorship of the Junta, made a political and militar alliance with Augusto Pinochet (who was not quite a democrat character). I do not forget that Ms Margaret Thatcher, along with Mr. Ronald Reagan, has a previous strategic “alliance” with the Argentine Junta, in their fight “against communism” in South and Central America. Not only they sold weapons to both, Argentina and Chile, imagining a brilliant business once both countries went to war, but also gave both economic and diplomatic support. Then....we know the story, the “liberation” of the islands has its counterpart in the strengthening of the dictatorship in Chile, its violations of human rights and international impunity granted by the UK in return for “services” rendered by the General. It is sad that the current political status of the inhabitants of the Islands, honest and clean people, is tarnished by the actions of the government of Margaret Thatcher and the spurious interests of the UK Government at that time. Now clowns like President Correa, or CFK, can use that “dirty” past to take a miserable political advantage.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@9 - Isolde
Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm afraid I disagree with everything you've said in your post.
Pinochet appealed against the extradition to Spain, and it was ruled that Pinochet couldn't be extradited for crimes committed before 1988, when this new law was introduced. I'm not saying I agree with the decision, but Pinochet won his appeal.
Assange didn't win his appeal as he could produce NO evidence that the extradition was politically motivated or part of a conspiracy.
Why should Sweden interview a man who has allegedly committed a crime in Sweden, in another country? Assange lost his extradition appeal and then broke his bail conditions, thus breaking UK law and is now trying to pevert the course of justice.
What kind of guarantee do you want? Why should Sweden give it? Where is your proof that the USA want to extradite Assange from Sweden? The USA have not produced any domestic or international arrest warrants for him. If the USA really wanted him, why haven't they tried to extradite him from the UK which would be easier than extraditing him from Sweden?
Why is Ecuador protecting a criminal? He became a criminal the moment he broke his bail conditions.
Why do you believe Assange's conspiracy theory? He has NO evidence to back it up, NONE. Why should these women in Sweden not have the right to have their complaint investigated? You know the women who worked for wikileaks, and who Assange and his zombie followers have been calling whores.
You know, even if this conspiracy were true, the US wouldn't extradite Assange from Sweden. You know why? Because he has staked his reputation on this conspiracy. So when Assange eventually faces the justice system of Sweden (with one of the best human rights records in the world), and doesn't get extradited his credibility is in ruins. Wikileaks credibility is in ruins.
And the best thing of all is that the USA didn't actually have to lift a finger to destroy that credibility. Makes me laugh. Assange the fool, hoist with his own petard.
@LEPRecon. If you want to dismiss the opinions of others, or despise them as “conspiracy theories”, you are on your right but a forum for exchange of views does not need “evidence” just logical and reasonable thoughts. In addition, links to newspaper articles are not “proofs” because they are journalists or media opinions.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14LEPRecon,
Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well that is your right.
lt would be a dull old world if we were all the same.
l do however think that there is more to this than meets the eye.
l do not trust the workings of the American Empire.
l think that Afghanistan has dampened their ardour a bit.
No-one has ever been able to hold Afghanistan for long.
We couldn't. Russia couldn't & now the Americans will find out that they can't either.
l was just appalled by everyone's immediate condemnation of JAssange.
l don't know why he chose Ecuador, spur of the moment l suppose.
lf l had exposed those cables like he has, l would fight tooth & nail to stay far away from US “justice” as possible & would be as wary as he is about ending up in their clutches.
So l sympathize with his situation.
No one has satisfactorily explained why the Swedish govt will not interview him in the Ecuadorian Embassy.
You say, why should they do that. You know the answer to that.
Why shouldn't they do it? ls it so difficult?
You are only surmising that he has staked his reputation on a conspiracy.
l would say that he has real fears.
l still stick by what l say.
l would like to be wrong, l would like to see it as a storm in a teacup.
l would like to see him go to Sweden & find his fears were groundless.
lf only it were so.
Tin-pot dictators telling the Brits and Swedes what to do ..... funny :-)
Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 You should go with LEPRecon.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Regarding your comments on Afghanistan, you should contemplate this. The primary purpose of the Coalition entry to Afghanistan was the elimination of Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. It's worth remembering that the Coalition has already been there longer than the Soviets were. And, despite the casualties, seem to have been considerably more successful with “the people” than the Soviets ever were.
But now on to Assange. Do you see him as some sort of guiding light? A freedom fighter comes to lead us from the depths of ignorance imposed by our governments? Consider these little snippets. Who persuaded Bradley Manning to steal confidential material in breach of his armed forces oath? What has Assange done for Bradley Manning? Has he charged forward to protect the boy? Not so's you'd notice. Have you tracked his movements around the world? That takes money. The places he's lived? That takes more money. Sussed out the members of his “legal team”, all costing megabucks? Watched his activities and listened to him with a critical ear? I have mentioned this elsewhere but I'll say it again. Israel has proved that it isn't difficult to abduct someone in a foreign country and remove them. Or eliminate them. If the US really wanted Assange in the States, or dead, it would already have happened. Instead this narcissistic little man has been greedily amassing as much money as possible whilst bed-hopping around the world. And has the gall to say that the British government is keeping him from his wife and children! Incidentally, Assange has been, at least, separated from his “wife” since the 90s. There was a lengthy “custody” battle that wasn't settled until 1999. Figure that into the equation! Assange is clever, no-one would deny that. But he's also a lying manipulator. If he's innocent, how long would it take him to go to Sweden and refute the allegations? You can judge scum by who they associate with. Correa!
“Ecuador's President Rafael Correa said that Britain's failure to extradite former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet more than a decade ago means it has no right to lecture others over the fate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange”
Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the same way as Ecudors failure to prevent the extradition of Barankov to Belerus on solely politcal crimes which could lead to him facing the death penalty means it has no right to lecture the world over the fate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange . Unlike Assnage (wanted for questioning for sex crimes) Mr Barankov is entilted to politcal asaylum.
@16 - Isolde
Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your opinions, but I'm a skeptic. I can't believe Assange's absurd conspiracy theories any more than I believe in the conspiracy theory that George W Bush was behind the 9/11 attacks, unless someone can provide some evidence.
Plus I think what makes most skeptical is the fact that he's accusing Sweden, of all countries. Sweden that has protected wikileaks servers from the USA, Sweden which has one of the best human rights records in the world.
And finally, in all of this hype, people forget about the alleged victims of Assange's alleged assault.
It's hard enough for a woman to come forwards and get help with sex crimes, but to have a bunch of strangers who have no idea what evidence the Swedish authorities may have against Assange, spread lies and try to discredit them must be awful and very intimidating.
In all the rush to desperately WANT to blame the USA for something, to make them the BAD GUY, everyone is forgetting about these poor women and their rights, their right to have their allegations investigated fully under Swedish law.
It maybe that Assange won't have a case to answer, maybe he will, but hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy and refusing to face the consequences of his actions isn't going to solve anything. He will face Swedish justice eventually, because the Ecuadorians will realise that they can no longer make any political gain out of him.
The one good thing that may come from all this is that in his fervour to accuse the UK and USA of human rights abuses, Correa may just spare Barankov, who faces the death penalty in Belarus for exposing the corruption of the Belarusian president and government and is currently languishing in one of the worse prisons in Ecuador and refused visits from his girlfriend.
LEP
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it is as you say hypothetically, and there is no case against Assange (1 of the possible outcomes), are these mentioned women still “poor”? Because you've seem to already have decided who the innocents are in this case...
Pinochet was in fragile health and after 18 months was returned to Chile, the Country where he committed his crimes.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If he had been extradited to any other third Country he could only have been prosecuted for those crimes he committed after 1988.
Pinochet faced Justice in Chile
Wikifreaks Assange wants to skip off free and evade justice
What amazes me is the way that posters like BK, Isolde and others can casually dismiss these alleged sexual offences as if they didn't matter.
Just because Assange embarrasses the USA doesn't make him above the law.
@21 - Guzz
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes these poor women who are being vilified and judged by Assange and his 'followers'; these poor women who are having their reputations dragged through the mud by people like you who have accused them of being liars and have obvioulsy decided that Assange is innocent when you haven't even seen any of the evidence that the Swedish authorities have?
You, who state that the USA and Sweden are guilty even though you have no evidence that either country has done anything inappropriate regarding Assange.
A bit hypocritical of you...oh wait, you're Guzz of course you're a hypocrit.
LEP
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I never said they lied, I merely translated the public evidence that is twitter, from Swedish to English...
The funniest thing is how one of the the most long lasting and brutal empires of the world (now in decline) pretends to lecture the world about “self-determination” of 1334 fishermen.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“One of the most long lasting and brutal empires of the world”.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah cheers.
9 and l6 lsolde
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the first time I agree with you. Good analysis of the case.
13 pgerman
I do not forget ... that Mrs. Margaret Thatcher, along with Mr. Ronald Reagan, has a precedent strategic “alliance” with the Board Argentina, in their struggle “against communism” in Central and South America. Not only sold weapons to both Argentina and Chile, imagining a brilliant business once the two countries went to war, but also gave both economic and diplomatic support. Then we know that history, the “liberation” of the islands has its counterpart in strengthening the dictatorship in Chile, its violations of human rights and international impunity granted by the United Kingdom, in exchange for “services” provided by the General. It is sad that the current political situation of the inhabitants of the islands, honest people and clean tarnished by the actions of the government of Margaret Thatcher and the spurious interests of the Government of the United Kingdom at that time ....
It is important to reflect back and insist on this point because it is the historical context of the Falklands conflict, beyond the legitimate Argentina claims sovereignty over the islands and the legitimate interests of the islanders English as the UN Resolution 2065 , is seen more clearly in time partnerships with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan Argentina's military junta. It is the national security doctrine which justified state terrorism, Operation Condor and the context of economic colonialism of the Washington consensus that impoverished Latin America.
Raul
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One truth at the time. They don't even know about Plan Condor, much less are they prepared for that slap you just gave them...
@25 - Maldive Islands
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Long lasting?
The British empire was quite short lived compared to some.
The Roman Empire - The western empire 900 years, the eastern empire 1000yrs.
The Persian Empire - nearly 2000 years
The Eygptian Empire - 3000 years
The Babylonian Empire - 300 years
The British Empire - about 400 years
Not only that but your assumption that we were the most brutal empire is also absurd. The Mongolian empire whilst only existing briefly, under Ghengis Kahn, reputedly killed nearly 1.2 million people in one day in the city of Urgench.
Hmm, try learning history before making wild accusations.
So the British Empire was neither the most long lasting or the most brutal empire in the world. However, we will take credit for being the largest Empire the world has ever known.
Oh and Maldive Islands, there are really only 1334 fisherman on the Maldives?
Well on the Falklands there are 3,000 people who have just stuck black gold. :o)
@25
Aug 24th, 2012 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Opposed to the descendents of another brutal empire (currently broke) who engaged in their own form of empire building in the 1870's (some 50 years after the supposed events of 1833) and are still attempting to colonize ( by definition) a peaceful population of 3,140 people who want nothing than to be left in peace, and then lecturing the world on de-colonization.
@27 - Raul
Aug 24th, 2012 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah more conspiracies and again without themevidence to back it up.
It must be strange being so gullible that you'll believe anything.
Oh and not one Argentine has ever shown a 'legitimate' Argentine claim to the Falkland Islands, which is why, like a thief you constantly try to steal them.
In fact your post is just full of unsubstantiated drivel.
Guzz / Raul
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know all about Plan Condor.
It don’t change the fact that the UK and Chile were absolutely right to seek mutual benefit in repressing Argentinean expansion.
The aggressors here were the Argie junta not Mr Thatcher or Pinochet. As much as you might dislike them, on this occasion they defended their people from aggression.
Cardinal Jozsef Mindszenty, a Hungarian dissident who was granted asylum by the U.S. government in 1956, resided in the U.S. Embassy in Budapest for 15 years. That was political asylum for religious persecution, however I digress. I suppsoe that was a sizeable abode. Unlike like the apartment equador calls their embassy, I can't see the Ambassador being too happy about having that tiny apartment filled with Assange.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain keep up the good work and totally ignore Ecuador. They will hand him over as it's only been a week and already there are foundering. Lets see equadors attitude after Janaury 2013.
@29 You forgot to mention the SPANISH Empire that can be dated from 1494 until 1975. And, under the guise of religion, certainly brutal. Concentration camps (the first) in Cuba. slavery, death by the garotte, burning etc. were quite common. As was torture.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@21 Guzz (#)
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:03 pm
Try not to be two faced Guzz, I know it is difficult for you but please try.
Julian Assanges supporters have decided that Julian Assange is innocent.
Us skeptics don't know one way or the other and we won't know until due process has been met.
So JAs supporters have decided who is guilty of something and who is innocent. The rest of us are waiting for the outcome of the investigation which cannot take place until JA co-operates.
Nice twist though. Good try.
@27
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So nobody in Argentina supported the invasion apart from the junta, and the junta was all Thatcher and Reagan's fault anyway. And there was no long tradition of indigenous thieving oligarchies keeping the rest of you poor, it was the Washington consensus. So the reason you have learned nothing, is you have nothing to learn.
How very comforting for you.
#29 The problem with your post is that you are introducing documented history and facts and reality. We are here blogging against SA blog trolls and facts and history and reality has no place when speaking to south americans.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Clyde15
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Translation made with Danny Berger human translator with just 2 weeks trip in Brazil © all rights reserves.
“Great Britain is afraid to engage into dialog with Ecuador to find a solution to resolve the Assange case.”
All just a little bit of perspective this article is written by a legal professor who writes an impartial analayses of the legal situation.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/impact/perspective/assange-cryer.aspx
#31 always “oh woe is me” SA's will blame everyone and anyone for their miserable but never themselves. As for economic colonialism, a socialist termed economic phrase to better blame the bigger, well established countries then to admit socialism died with the USSR. Even China has a mixed economy, albiet extreme left of center capitalism, but they accept socialism in itself is dead.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 040
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right Poppy, preach that to your countrymen. The more who thinks like that, the better for us...
Ahh ... HansNiedsund again. You, who likes history and what follows from it I would like to kindly invite you to inquire and do some research about:
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The two British invasions to Buenos Aires.
The Trade Agreements between the Province of Buenos Aires and the UK fsince the moment of the Declaration of Independence.
The reasons why the Gaucho Ribero was sent back to Montevideo by a UK judge.
The negotiations between Juan Manuel de Rosas and the UK over the Falklands.
The acquisition of the Orcadas Base by Argentina to the UK
The history of bordering disagreements between Argentina and Chile, the role of the UK Queen and the situation between both prior to the mediation of the Pope to avoid war.
I invite you to visit the Plaza de Mayo to see their real dimensions and how many people is needed to fill it.
Honestly, I can not wait to see you posting links of media articles that are “infallible proofs” that confirm your position and opnions which, of course, are perfect and there is no room for error or doubt.
@42
Aug 24th, 2012 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the relevance is?
@37
Aug 24th, 2012 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey...wait a second!
You need to accept the fact all the viewers have the right to express their thought...someone can have misleading information...including politicians,
but for you to say:
“against SA blog trolls and facts and history and reality has no place when
speaking to south americans..” is simply unacceptable.
You don't even to accept the fact, that the USA, your country and my country is in the most difficult economic times and USA citizens are suffering hunger, are homeless, unemployed for more than 4 years, unable to buy a health insurance, food or able to rent a decent place to live.
While the USA economy is getting worst as everyone of you can read in newspapers, YOU always demostrate a desire to inflict harm to anything have is relate it to South America which is simple unfair.
Please, show more consideration presenting a solution instead of placing unfair comments...and I do expect that as an USA citizen present a quick solution for the 24 millons USA unemployed citizens, 46 millons receiving “food stamps” and help the homeless begging for food!
@42
Aug 24th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't have much time to assist with your education this evening, but this might clarify a couple of things for you :
Popular support for the war:
Interview with the splendidly named Argentine Olympian Carola Malvina Lopez:
Sobre la elección de su nombre, agregó: “Me lo pusieron en honor a las Islas porque eso fue muy impactante para ellos. Mi papá me dijo que aquel 2 de abril la gente salió a la calle y había más gente que en el mundial del 78”.
Or to paraphrase, her father named her in honor of the 1982 invasion. More people turned out on the street to celebrate this than turned out for the 1978 world cup.
http://www.infobae.com/notas/663230-La-taekwondista-argentina-llamada-Malvina-que-debuto-en-Londres.html
Return to Montevideo of the Revolutionary Hero Rivero.
Following a murder rampage, and having betrayed his accomplices to the British authorities, national hero Rivero was sent to London for trial but ultimately returned to Montevideo because the London courts decided they didn't have jurisdiction to try him. Malvinistas in search of the mythical smoking gun have attempted to portray this as an admission that the UK did not have jurisdiction over the Falklands. Unfortunately, this is just a misunderstanding of British colonial administration - the London courts had no jurisdiction over any colony at all, since British colonies had their own distinct legal systems. Except for the Falklands, which had none in place until the following year, a fully formed legal system not having been necessary until the 1832/1833 episodes of piracy and murder. So in short, Rivero got off on a technicality.
For an eye witness report of the Malvinista hero in action, see :
http://www.infobae.com/notas/663230-La-taekwondista-argentina-llamada-Malvina-que-debuto-en-Londres.html
So? Links again? Evidence of what these links are? Links of articles are proof of nothing but the opinion of others. Until now you were not able to provide a single and irrefutable proof that what you claimed is true and proven. However, no matter how much you try to justify old facts, the reality is that a British judge freed a murderer clearly arguing that he had NO JURISDICTION over the Islands territory. I strongly suggest you, again, to look for the following historical facts:
Aug 24th, 2012 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The two British invasions to Buenos Aires.
The Trade Agreements Between the Province of Buenos Aires and the UK since the first moment of the Declaration of Independence.
The Negotiations Between Juan Manuel de Rosas and the UK over the Falklands.
The acquisition of the Orcadas Base by Argentina to the UK
The history of bordring disagreements between Argentina and Chile, the role of the UK Queen and the situation prior to the mediation of the Pope to avoid a war.
I invite you to visit the Plaza de Mayo to see its actual dimensions and how many people is needed to fill it.
I also invite you, with particular predilection, to read Sir Robert Fitz Roy's coments, and writtings, about Luis Vernet. The way he described Vernet and his position there.
I did not want to prove anything to you. I just would just like to see you a little bit better informed about the relations between the UK, Argentina and Chile in the South Atlantic area and the Patagonia.
And, of course, I forget that you are always right. I'm sorry !!!
Ref to #44 second show time
Aug 24th, 2012 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46
Aug 24th, 2012 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I provided you the links to allow you assess the background for my contenions for yourself. It's the sort of thing academics do, y'know, but perhaps you're not used to having to justify your arguments by reference to supporting sources. In our part of the world we picked that sort of thing up from the Greeks, originally, and then got hung up on it a bit during the Age of Enlightenment. I find it quite helpful when I am endeavouring to establish a reasoned position. Of course, if you just want to recite doctrine at somebody it might be considered a little de trop.
As for the Rivero business, try rereading what I said. Indeed the judge had NO JURISDICTION over the Falklands. He had NO JURISDICTION over Australia, India or any other non metropolitan part of the British Empire either. It doesn't mean those weren't under British jurisdiction at the time, it only means that particular court wasn't the right one for the job in question. To avoid further confusion, I'd suggest you try to avoid reasoning by equating everything to your own political/legal system.
I'd also suggest you get used to the idea, that when somebody disagrees with you, it's not necessarily because they are ignorant. Maybe it's just that you don't have the whole picture. I wil provide you some further remarks on some of these questions you raise as my schedule permits.
But anyway, it's nice to see all the same that you've dropped the offended ingenue act.
@35 War Monkey,
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some may have decided that JAssange is innocent, l have merely questioned why the Swedish government will not interview him in the Equadorian embassy.
He may be guilty, he may be innocent, as yet we do not know.
To me it seems that the Swedish government has something to hide.
@22 Englander,
See above, l have not “casually dismissed these alledged sexual offences as if they didn't matter”
They do indeed matter, but is JAssange being set-up?
Let him be questioned at a place where he cannot be locked up for another unrelated case.
@18Conqueror,
Osama is dead now, Al Quaeda is reduced. Can we leave Afghanistan now?
Too many of our young men & women have died there.
l doubt that we'll ever be able to get the people up to our level.
As soon as we leave, they'll revert. lf we are the guiding lights, freeing them from the Taliban, how come the Taliban still have support?
The Taliban couldn't exist without this support.
The Viet-cong continued to exist & ultimately triumphed because of the support of the people.
Our boys are dying needlessly in Afghanistan. Bring them home.
Mr HabsNiesund,
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love the way you ignore and dismiss the arguments of those who think differently.
Take for instance: “Malvinistas In Search of the Mythical smoking gun have Attempted to portray this as an admission that”.
Another example is that the scientists who were living in Argentine Base in the Thule Island, when they were expelled from it and base was dynamited, were not scientists, in fact they were “scientists” in quotation marks.
Your links are not evidence of anything, they don't provide any strength at all either. I myself could, with links, “demostrate” that UFOs landed in the UK, or that aliens are here with us. If you don't believe me, please, just check on the specialized media. So, there is absolutely proven that there are martians among us !!!!
You are not an ignorant person at all, it's quite evident that your knowledge of the subject is well above the average of most of the people in Argentina, in the UK and the World in general. You have a deliberate biased and you disregard and despise any opinion that can question your position.
I'm not interested in discussing with you the topics that I invited you to read about. I have the fantasy that they could led you to have a more open mind posture.
Of course, as I mentioned few days ago, I still think that you are the kind of people who believe in the supremacy of the British culture and race. You haven't say that , you are smart enough to say that, but it is quite clear in your positions.
The thing about links is you have to assess them too. A link to a UFO loony site isn't germane to anything, but a link to eyewitness testimony should not be discounted out of hand.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I was just going to ask you to tell me how many people there are in this picture celebrating the invasion of the Falklands in the Plaza de Mayo, but I suppose you won't want to now.
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/falklands033012/s_f03_04100120.jpg
Finally, and for the record, I do not believe in the supremacy of the British culture and race. I do not believe in the supremacy of any culture or race. I think we're pretty much all chimpanzees together. And that's one of the reasons I don't believe in Malvinista anglophobia either, it's quite obviously the product of a system that doesn't appreciate a spirit of sceptical inquiry.
9 lsolde
Aug 24th, 2012 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said.
9 Isolde
Aug 25th, 2012 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Correa is wrong
Pinochet’s case was an extradition request. The government has the power to override the courts’ decision if they declare it valid. Pinochet lost his appeal, but the government decided not to extradite him.
Assange’s case is a European Arrest Warrant. The government has no power to override the decision of the courts. It has the legal obligation to carry it out. The EWA did not exist at the time of Pinochet’s extradition request.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2002F0584:20090328:EN:PDF
see page 3 of pdf, paras (8) and (9)
(you may have to copy and paste link, rather than click on it)
The EWA has been ruled valid right up to the Supreme Court
www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/jud-aut-sweden-v-assange-judgment.pdf
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/2849.html
Extradition Act 2003
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2002F0584:20090328:EN:PDF
Sets out procedures to follow for EWA countries (Part 1 Category 1) and Extradition Countries (Part 2 Category 2 countries)
Sweden wants him for prosecution, not just for questioning
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2002F0584:20090328:EN:PDF
page 17 points 9 and 10
The Swedish government cannot make a decision on an extradition request that has not yet been made, and the US has not yet made any request. The Swedish Government must follow procedures set down in its laws. Those procedures are outlined here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:2002F0584:20090328:EN:PDF
53 dab14763 “Pinochet’s case was an extradition request. The government has the power to override the courts’ decision if they declare it valid”
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0David you live in a fantasy world, Thatchers relationship with one of the worlds greatest mass murderers is the real reason.
President Correa is right.
The OAS supports Ecuador's sovereignty against Britard threats: http://rt.com/news/oas-support-ecuador-assange-529/
Aug 25th, 2012 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'd like to see that Mexican guy now -- will he say again that OAS is different so from that Unasur 'circus' now?
Get a clue, José. A country, Ecuador, has lended a hand to a whistleblower facing a politically-inspired interrogation and potential extradition to a country where he can be tried for political “crimes”. And in response, an ally of the latter country is threatening to storm Ecuador's embassy, in violation of international conventions. You don't need to be South American or left-winger to see who's right and wrong here. Ecuador, Unasur and now the OAS are right. Britain and the US are wrong, and you're nothing but a sanctimonious parrot to their talking points.
Any crime that General Pinochet might have committed was committed in Chile. He had committed no offence in Spain so why should that country have requested his extradition anyway? There was no legal reason why Britain should have acceded to Spain's request.
Aug 25th, 2012 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0MA
Aug 25th, 2012 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 053 dab14763 “Pinochet’s case was an extradition request. The government has the power to override the courts’ decision if they declare it valid.
You lost me there! are you saying the UK governement has the power to override the courts if it disagrees with a ruling, because if you are, you are wrong, very,very, very wrong.
57 RC ask DB @53.
Aug 25th, 2012 - 06:17 am - Link - Report abuse 056 Gordo1
This is not about Spain, this is about British hypocrisy going after a whistleblower to please their master in North America but releasing a mass murderer like general Pinochet was perfectly ok.
Reality,
Aug 25th, 2012 - 06:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0With Extradition the Government has the power not to extradite someone even if the courts declare the extradition request is valid. It does not have the power to extradite someone if the courts declare the extradition request is not valid.
With the European Arrest Warrant the government has no powers one way or the other. The decision is entirely with the court, and the government must comply with it, whatever that decision is.
That's better.
Aug 25th, 2012 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@58 Marcos Alejandro,
Aug 25th, 2012 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats how l see it too.
@58
Aug 25th, 2012 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Releasing a mass murderer like Pinochet was not OK.
It doesn't follow from this that releasing an alleged rapist without a trial would be.
How is it hypocritical when
Aug 25th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are different governments with different Home Secretaries, and different laws involved, and the Home Secretary of the current government has no power to do what the Home Secretary of the former government did?
@58 - Marcos and @61 - Isolde
Aug 25th, 2012 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the UK were in league with the USA regarding Assange, why are we extraditing him to Sweden? Why not just send him straight to the USA? I mean its harder to extradite some from Sweden. Sweden, that liberal country that has protected wikileaks from the beginning.
This is where all your conspiracy theories break down, by the simple fact that it is completely RIDICULOUS.
Assange had 2 YEARS to prove that the USA was behind this extradition to Sweden, and he could not produce one shred of EVIDENCE that would substantiate these claims.
Assange will end up in Sweden. Assange will not be extradited to the USA.
Assange will be proved a liar. Wikileaks will suffer because of Assanges hubris and belief that he is above the same laws as the rest of us mere mortals.
However, Marcos, Isolde, if you can produce that evidence I will happily change my mind.
But you won't, and I won't, and you two will continue to believe in your fairy tales, not because there is proof, but because you want the USA to be GUILTY of something.
And maybe the USA is guilty of something, but it's not this. It is not in their national interest to extradite Assange. Why? Because if they do, it will give him and wikileaks the ammunition they need to say to the world, 'see we told you so.'
So the USA won't extradite him, and the world will say to Assange and Wikileaks, 'so you lied, so you no longer have any credibility. Oh, you are now trying to tell us something important about “xxxx”, well it isn't true, after all you are all liars.'
Do you see the logic in this. Assange has painted himself into a corner and he has staked his own and wikileaks reputation on the USA extraditing him. By not extraditing him, the USA ruin Assange, and they didn't have to do anything.
I'll bet all those CIA spooks are saying, “Why can't we come up with plots this good?”
@54 Guzz
Aug 25th, 2012 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Government minister Jack Straw overturned the 'house of lords' ruling to block the extraction on health grounds, nothing else.
Mrs Thatch was right to get help from Pinochet during Falklands War. He was no friend of Argentina... your enemy's enemy is your friend. War is war.
@64 LEPRecon,
Aug 25th, 2012 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We will see.
Sat.25/08/2012
Aug 25th, 2012 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The meeting of the committee of Foreign Ministers of the Organisation of American States(OAS) brought mixed results for Ecuador. Several countries, Canada, Panamá, Trinidad and Tobago, considered the matter should NOT have been a matter for consideration for the committee whilst it was also generally agreed that the famous note from the UK did NOT constitute a threat but, of course, the ALBA countries(Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia and Nicaragua) plus Argentina, disagreed with this determination.There is little information available about which countries actually attended this meeting - it would be interesting to learn how the Commonwealth countries of the Caribbean, other than Trinidad and Tobago, voted. ALBA also has several members which are also Commonwealth members and who recognise HM The Queen as their Head of State.
All in all, this result is not too unfavourable for the United Kingdom, in my opinion.
@66 - Isolde
Aug 25th, 2012 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes we will see.
How about trying to answer some of the questions I posed?
How about producing some evidence of this conspiracy which may persuade me to change my mind?
So what if Pinoshit did not get extradited, it was in accordance with our law. End of, why do we even bother arguing with people like this, who for years have not even known the meaning of the word law. Yet think they can lecture those who have abided by it for decades , how to behave. Beggars belief, beyhond comprehension! To all you Latan Ams I say this. Lead by example!!!!!! your doing a shit job so far.
Aug 25th, 2012 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE AMERICANS CALL IT PRECEDENCE. THE BRITISH CALL IT COMMON LAW. NOW FERK OF AND FIND IT FOR YOURSELF. THEN COME BACK AND LECTURE TO THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE IT.
LEPRecon
Aug 25th, 2012 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me give you a hint.
http://www.france24.com/en/20100406-leaked-video-shows-us-military-killing-civilians-reuters-staff
MA
Aug 25th, 2012 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are trying tontell us that war is wrong. Then as a 3rd generation serviceman, your preaching to the converted.
World War 2 casualties.
Total civilian casualties Allies + Axis = 30,497,000
Total civilian + military casualties (Allies + Axis) = 55,014,000
Oh, I would also like to point out, before that god damn war started, most if not all of those young men were infact, civilians.
RC
Aug 25th, 2012 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You missed my point , watch the video again and you will see a familiar face.
MA
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apologies this damn Router is playing up, can not down load video. Having fibre optics installed soon. Speed is 0.22Mb real pain in the arse always turning it on and off to get a signal. Not trying to be derogatorty. Just trying to point out that all war is wrong and that there will always be civilian casualties.
Who knows had we the benefit of the internet in 82, perhaps that war between us would not have happened. A thousand of our best would still be alive, a little older and contributing here today. What do you think?
RC
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I rather not to talk about the criminal actions that I saw in that American military video(posted before), but in the same video you will see who brought that video up for the world to see.
If happens to be the same person living now in the Ecuadorian embassy in London.
MA
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually you don't, not in that version.
But do you really think that if it wasn't for Assange, nobody would know this shit happens?
And do you really think that gives him a pass on a sexual assault charge?
What are you that nieve to think that because modern technology allows you to see such things that it never happened before? or will never happen again? What do you think is going on in Syria? A plane straffes a town, because the internet does not show 30mm rounds striking the ground and tearing the people apart you think what, no one is getting hurt?
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You honestly going to tell me that, because you can not see it on the internet, that the Americans are the only ones doing such things.
73 RC “Who knows had we the benefit of the internet in 82...”
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if I am strongly believe Malvinas is part of Argentina I strongly opposed the war of 1982. And if we would've free internet back then I will probably be facing a 9mm pistol pointed to my forehead, I will love to see my dictators faces reading my comments lol.
75 Like I said before rapist should have their “instrument removed”
This is not about sexual assault.
@77
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The thing is, if it's not about sexual assault, it's am exceedingly strange and spectacularly inept way of getting somebody to the US.
@70 - Marcos
Aug 25th, 2012 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the video was released. And?
Still no proof that the USA is intending to extradite Assange. No arrest warrants have been issued.
So all I want is proof of this alleged conspiracy. Providing links to stuff that has been in the public domain for ages is not proof.
So what you seem to be saying, is because Assange (well actually Bradley Manning but Assange pretends he doesn't exist) released this video that he shouldn't have to face due process on a completely unrelated criminal charge?
Sweden has protected wikileaks from the USA (I really bet they wish they hadn't now), and Assange and the rest of you are now trying to convince the world that they are 'in bed' with the USA.
Well answer this. If Sweden is the USA's 'lapdog', why didn't they let the USA shut down the wikileaks servers before they could release such damaging information to the USA?
Hmm? Are you going to answer that question, or are you going to link to another completely irrelevant article?
MA
Aug 25th, 2012 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I am really glad that you do not have a 9mm pointed at your head and I sincerly hope that you and every other Argentinian is never ever going to be put in that position again. I can only imagine that in my wildest nightmares. It is something that we over here can not even begin to comprehend. We came fairly close to it, which might give you an idea why we are what we are.
By the way, I respect your beliefs, though as you might expect I disagree with them. There must some where be an answer, I will support my side, you will support yours, in the end there is nothing wrong with that. It is simply called patriotism, therein my RG friend lies the problem. By the way can I say, glad to see there was no politics in the olympics, your girls hockey team were bloody marvelous.
uk is FINISHED,economically and moraly....
Aug 25th, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0RC
Aug 25th, 2012 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fair enough, thanks.
Now the president of Ecuador spoke the truth. because england Gave political asylum to the murderer and wants at all costs to hold the former Alleged hacker is sexual harassment? or maybe They do not want more compromising documents will public knowledge? this story is very badly told.
Aug 26th, 2012 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sweden is still protecting Wikileaks.com servers, which goes to show that the sexual assault investigation has absolutely NOTHING to do with Wikileaks!!!!
Aug 26th, 2012 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is simply about a bloke who sexually molested a couple of Wikileaks female workers who have made a complaint to the Swedish judiciary.
If Assange is really innocent, WTF doesn't he go to Sweden, prove it and then do his thing wherever he likes, the man is a bloody fool!!!!
The paper tiger is a paper tiger.
Aug 26th, 2012 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://rt.com/news/britain-withdraws-threat-ecuador-577/
I hope I'm not about to repeat anything that has already been said, If I do I appologise.
Aug 26th, 2012 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Assaunge spent the next night with one of the two women.
Both women made claims that the Swedish police investigated and then decided there was no case.
Then the women got visited by government lawyers who persuaded them there was a case to answer.
I don't feel that everything is “okay” with this case and do think the heavy hand of the USA is involved. Sweden has a right-wing government.
The USA had a few diplomatic cables exposed by this man, it showed the the USA spied on British politicians as much as they spy on Persian politicians: So what, it's what nations do, but for some reasons the Yank government seems really upset about being caught out.
As @16 Isolde said, I dunno why he chose Ecuador- perhaps he was just walking past her embassy, but given he is facing a government that would like to fry him in the electric chair I would have done the same.
The US government got caught out doing what all nations do, so what. The US Government needs to grow up and stop behaving like a child.
TWIMC…
Aug 26th, 2012 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0This 2011 video could be of help for those that don’t “understand” why Assange did choose Ecuador….
http://alt1040.com/2012/05/julian-assange-rafael-correa-entrevista
Educate yourself…
@68 LEPRecon,
Aug 26th, 2012 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0l seem to have irritated you, that was not my intention.
And l am fully aware that a lot of the malvinistas are only supporting JAssange because its against the UK. My enemy's enemy is my friend syndrome.
No, of course l have no proof/evidence.
Neither do you.
You only know what you read, the same as me.
Unless of course you are a high ranking diplomat or in lnterpol.
Señor Correa has said that the charges have arisen because JAssange did not wear a condom.
ls this true?
lf it is true then that makes the case against him even more ridiculous.
Don't you agree?
lf its true what poster#86Moriety claims(if its true!), then there is your conspiracy!
l hope that this does not cause bad blood between us or a split in the Brit ranks,
but l stick by my convictions & will not back down.
Peace♥
@88 - Isolde
Aug 26th, 2012 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I resect your opinions but I just can't swallow this whole conspiracy theory. I am by nature completely skeptical of conspiracies.
I believe the charges arose because he had non-consentual sex with 2 wikileaks employees. In other words sexual assault or rape.
Whether or not the condom story is true, I don't know, but not wearing a condom without the permission of your partner is considered a crime in some countries. For instance, if someone who knows that they are HIV positive has unprotected sex with someone, and doesn't tell them that they are infected before intercourse takes place, can be arrested for actual bodily harm. It the other person becomes infected, they could be charged with attempted murder.
It's all about taking responsibility for your actions.
But like you, I don't know what evidence that the Swedish authorities have. Maybe they didn't have enough evidence to charge him initially, and then further evidence came to light, enough to at least want to question Assange over the matter.
You say I don't have proof that a conspiracy doesn't exist, and you're right I don't. But since it is Assange that has made these allegations, the burden of proof is on him. In the case against Assange in Sweden, the burden of proof is on the authorities. Assange is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Well the USA and Sweden are also innocent until PROVEN guilty.
Maybe they have enough evidence to bring charges against him, maybe they don't. Assange isn't helping his case by refusing to cooperate with the authorities. He has had 2 years to prove that this extradition is politically motivated, but couldn't. No leaked diplomatic cables between the US and Sweden. No secret telephone conversations. Not even so much as an arrest warrant.
I don't know if what poster 68 says is true or not, but to say its because Sweden has a right wing government is bollocks. So what? The USA has a left wing government, yet everyone automatically assumes that they want Assange.
USA left wing? Are you serious???
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Damn, LEP, you really need to read up on ideologies, USA is right wing, and that applies to both the republicans and the democrats.
@89 LEPRecon,
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, lets leave it at that & see what happens next.
l hope that l am wrong, l wouldn't like to see JAssange in Guantanamo prison.
Come on LEPRecon,
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0I've been to Sweden 6 times, I know a little of how she works.
They never had a right-wing government in the times I visited, but I've heard grumbles on how they now. A left-wing government in the USA is right-wing to us in Europe. They simply “Dont do left”.
The Anna woman in this case spent the next night with this man organising a talk for him, went for a meal the following day (or the other way round.)
There was nothing between the Police saying there was nothing to investigate untill two or three months later when the government lawyers visited both of the women.
I'm British and not prone to believe in conspiracy theories, but there is something very fishy about this and I dont like it.
Paranoid Yanks being exposed for doing what all governments do, but failing to understand that simple fact is fine. But when they want to kill a man because of being caught- An Aussie as well - It's not fine. They need to learn some respect.
The video Think (or whoever he is) was VERY interesting.
I really like Americans, but by god they need to start to get a grip on their government as it's been out of control for a long time.
@92 - Moriety
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0My point is that NO ONE but the Swedish Authorities know what evidence they have against Assange, and it would be illegal for them to release it as it could prejudice the case one way or the other.
You see that's not how the law works. Someone made an allegation against Assange. It has to be investigated. But sometimes evidence can be uncovered later. So what may have, at first glance, seemed to be unsubstantiated could at a later date with further evidence be enough for the authorities to believe they should make a charge.
You say that there is something very fishy about this. Well the only fishy thing I see is Assange trying to avoid due process, and he has broken the law to do it.
Everything that everyone is talking about is purely conjecture. There is no proof of a conspiracy and there is no proof that there isn't. But as Assange made the allegations, it is up to him to provide that proof, which he has been unable to do for the last 2 years.
The USA have had 2 years to extradite Assange from the UK. 2 years, and nothing has happened. The UK were it is relatively straight forwards for the US to extradite someone.
As opposed to Sweden, where it isn't. Now Sweden has stood up to the USA for years and protected wikileaks. Why should they now just decide not to?
It doesn't benefit the USA to go after Assange (although I'm sure there are some US Republicans that would just out of spite). Why? Because if they go after Assange they could make him into a martyr, but not going after Assange he is proved wrong and his credibility is destroyed.
Obama is the most left wing President the USA has ever had. Okay, he's not Chavez, but you couldn't get more left wing in the USA if you tried.
You see, to me, when you start looking at these claims and applying logic it just doesn't add up. The USA has far more to lose by extraditing Assange than they have to gain.
The man made no allegations!
Aug 26th, 2012 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It looks bad that he went to an embassy, but if the most powerful nation on earth was trying to fry my balls I'd try to find one as well.
Even you must understand that here he has as many female supporters as males, that at least should say something to you.
The UK would be in uproar from the PC brigade if he was extradited to the USA, and normal folk like me would be outraged as well. The UK want him out ASAP- to Sweden so they sigh with relief.
Because so many people in the UK support him they know they cannot bin him by using the law the UK introduced after PC Yvonne Fletcher was murdered by the Libyans. It was a law even I didn't know existed, the government kept it very quiet.
Now we do know it exists and also know it breaks every law in the diplomatic code book. How pointless. Our government, by mentioning this unknown law just made us look very stupid.
The UK as you know have a one-way extraditition treaty with us, that annoys me. (nothing like REAL mates ay?). Yep, I dunno why the US government hasn't asked for him, but I guess they dont wish to look even more paranoid and stupid than they are already behaving.
Did you actually bother to read the wiki-leaks? No, me neither. Channel 4 news gave a broad outline of the leaks and regaled us viewers with how the Yanks described some of our politicians- some of their descriptions had me rolling on the floor, but nothing more. They made me smile.
Seeing their paranoid reaction since stopped me smiling.
If the US Government said publicly that they will not seek extradition from Sweden then this man has no fear in travelling to Sweden.
Whilst they will not say this I have two words of advice to the Ecuador Government:
1) London is full of sewers, go to them below the embassy to see if anyone is waiting
2) Bring in a prosthetics expert and make the man look like one of your workers who leaves the Embassy each day at lunch.
Sorry mate, I really do feel that strongly on this.
The strange thing about this CIA plot is that it is so convoluted, extraordinarily poorly executed, and offers such little benefit to the USA:
Aug 26th, 2012 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- Why would the Swedes let the target leave the country in the middle of the plot, so he can spend the next 18 months pursuing every angle in the British legal system?
- Why would the Brits, once extradition is granted, give the target two weeks grace before enactment, to saunter into the Ecuadorean embassy and gum the whole plot up?
- Why pick a crime that is so hard to prove? Why pick a version of that crime at the less serious end of the scale? Why allow your stooges/agents to post messages in twitter and on blogs in the immediate aftermath of the honeytrap, that undermine your own case? Why choose a technique that is most suitable to blackmailing the target when you could have, e.g, planted drugs at the airport, a corpse in the bathroom, or paedopohilia on the laptop?
- Why not just bang him on the head and stick him on a plane anyway?
- Why incur all these risks and delays in order to circumvent the UK legal system, when the UK is already demonstrably amenable at the political level, when Sweden has arguably tougher legal constraints, and the UK le legally required to sign off on any further extradition from Sweden anyway?
Who came up with this scheme?
@94 - Moriety
Aug 26th, 2012 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What planet have you been on? Assange has been making allegations against the USA and Sweden for more than 18 months!
He is accusing them, and if he actually had evidence of this so-called plot it would've been all over the media by now, wouldn't it?
You support Assange purely because of wikileaks. Assange and his supporters have, from the beginning, tried to pervert the course of justice by spreading unsubstantiated rumours regarding the case, which people like you are taking as gospel. It must be true because Assange said so.
If Assange gets away without facing his accusers in Sweden, it will put back women's rights years. I have worked with the victims of sexual assault and rape, and the biggest fear they have is of not being believed by the authorities.
However this works out, Assange and wikileaks, are spitting all over women's rights, and especially a womans right to justice.
I mean, just look at Correa, the man who says rape isn't a crime. This man had Barankov arrested (who'd been sheltering in Ecuador for months), during the visit of the Belarusian President. Barankov who exposed corruption in the Belarusian government and has committed NO crimes.
Barankov has been kept in MAXIMUM security, and isn't allowed ANY visitors. If he is extradited he WILL face the death penalty. Assange was allowed to wander free, not even house arrest.
So Barankov was perfectly welcome until Correa thought he could make some political gain out of him. He is using Assange in the same way.
The USA won't go after Assange, and he will be exposed as the liar he is. Assange will face the Swedish justice system, and THEY will decide if they have enough evidence to prosecute or not. That isn't up to Assange, or me, or you, or Ecuador, or any of the wikileaks conspiracy theorists.
And these women, who have been viliefied by Assanges army of zombies, those women who WORKED for wikileaks, should be allowed the same rights as any other woman in this situation.
A multi-pronged attack there REP.
Aug 26th, 2012 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I made clear, my knowledge of his release of US Diplomatic cables (so not fiction) extends as far as the Channel 4 news reportage of it.
I do consider the case to be a stitch-up as Hans says above. I also said why I'm dubious about the claims. Why would you go to lunch two days later with a man who was meant to have raped you?
I've never heard of this Bankarov bloke and not sure it has any relevance to this case either? If the US Government isn't interested in Assaunge why don't they just say so? Job done then.
@97 - Moriety
Aug 26th, 2012 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are sections of society that wouldn't believe the USA if they said water was wet. Why? Because they WANT to believe that the USA is behind every bad thing that happens in the world.
You say, “Why would you go to lunch two days later with a man who was meant to have raped you?”
By your comments I can tell that you've never worked with the victims of abuse. Why do victims of domestic violence stay with their abusive partner for years? Must be because they like it right? Why do the victims of child abuse not say anything, and keep going back into the situation where they can be abused again? Well they must like it too, right? Why do the victims of rape try to pretend that it never happened? Because they liked it too, right?
Wrong! You see human psychology is a very strange thing, and people will build all kind of mental barriers to protect themselves. The most common one is denial. If I deny to myself that it happened, then it didn't happen. Eventually though all the bad stuff will seep through. People in these situations need support and reassurance that they will be believed. What they don't need is to be publicly judged by people who have no idea what the evidence is.
You seem to have made up your mind: Assange is innocent, these women guilty.
You haven't seen the evidence, but what does that matter, he must be innocent because of he released some evidence that the USA was bad, and therefore he gets a 'get out of jail' pass for any crime he wishes to commit.
Well, I'm a skeptic. I have like to wait until all the evidence has been presented before I make up my mind. Not 1 person has convinced me that this conspiracy exists, so until some evidence is produced, it doesn't exist.
The USA has nothing to gain by extraditing Assange, but by doing nothing, by not extraditing him they gain everything. Assange has staked his and wikileaks reputation on this conspiracy against him, so if it is proved untrue he loses any credibility he may have had.
REP:
Aug 26th, 2012 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not convinced that there was a crime committed in the first place.
I don't really do anti-USA Government bashing either, this is about the first time.
You lumped me in with what you called “The Assange bunch” rather than a person who has misgivings.
I see that you are impassioned about abuse and I can only support you on that.
My angle was that the Police investigated and decided there was no case, a couple of months later after visits by Swedish Government Lawyers there suddenly was a case. I'm VERY suspicious of that.
Your noble position on the defence of abused people is, to me, being lost as you have chosen to focus it on this case.
Did you make an impassioned case on “The Independent” newspaper online? If not, someone with your thoughts did and got lots of thumbs down which I thought pretty rude and pointless of them.
Your focus is on the abuse of humans, mine is on the very strange legal shuffling the Swedish have been doing.
Finally: The Wiki leaks. It was the release of secret diplomatic US cables, there is no reputation to be lost: They simply released them, and all were real, hence the US Government anger. As I said, they got caught out doing what all nations do. So what. Has the world changed as a result? Have spying methods been revised by nations since then? Maybe, who really cares.
@99 - Moriety
Aug 26th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everyone has the right to their own opinion and I respect that. But as I said no one has produced any evidence of this alleged conspiracy.
So until someone does produce evidence I will stand by what I say.
It is not unusual for the police to question someone and let them go, and then new evidence comes to light and they decide that questioning them a second time will help clarify matters. It happens all the time, and there isn't a government conspiracy about it.
I honestly don't know if Assange is innocent or guilty, but I do believe that he is innocent until proven guilty.
It's a pity that people don't extend the same curtesy to the Swedish and US governments.
And you know what, in my opinion, makes this whole conspiracy seem like a nonsense? The fact the he's accusing Sweden. As I said before, the Swedish authorities have protected wiki leaks in the past, so why are they now being painted as the 'bad guys'?
Why would the US try to extradite Assange from Sweden when Sweden has proved very uncooperative with the US in the past? Why, when Assange has been in the UK for nearly 2 years, have the US not tried to extradite him from here?
These things are what don't make sense to me. These things are what makes is alleged conspiracy seem false.
And again I reiterate, the USA don't need to extradite Assange as he has staked his and wikileaks reputation on this conspiracy. If the conspiracy turns out to be a lie to help Assange get out of a sticky legal position, the reputations of both Assange and wikileaks will be ruined.
Maybe there is a conspiracy. Maybe Assange has sold out wikileaks, and has been paid to ruin them in this manner. Because if they are exposed as liars, who will ever believe them in the future when they are trying to release information?
Yes, that sounds much more believable, don't you think?
Oh, and it wasn't me in the independent, but it's nice to know that there are more skeptical people out there.
You keep on going on about “A wiki leak conspiracy”
Aug 26th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm at the point of giving up here mate.
Wiki Leaks released US Diplomatic cables that showed the US Government enjoyed spying on British politicians (their allies) as much as they enjoyed spying on their enemies such as the Iranians. They were embarrassed about being caught.
For me, I hope MI6 watches their senators- especially the neo-con nutters, if not they are failing the UK as each time those loons make some headway in the senate our soldiers die. It's called spying, it's fine.
The US Government hasn't said that they won't seek to extradite Assange. They need to, otherwise they continue to look like a petchulant little child.
If justice is to be served, they have to.
Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree until the court case begins, if it ever gets there.
9 lsolde
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice one Isolde!! The British Government acted shamefully with regard to the handling of Pinochet. The man was a modern day Stalin and we sat by and did nothing to bring this monster to justice.......
Now that Uncle Sam has had his feathers ruffled by wikileaks, we are suddenly falling over ourselves to do his bidding?
Nicely pointed out there Isolde...........
@ HansNiesund
Aug 27th, 2012 - 04:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0“and offers such little benefit to the USA”
Well let’s see...
If I would be in the Espionage/Intelligence business and after decades of using the same modus operandi like the use of the media, think tanks and viral technique using communicators under my payroll, etc.
And that every day is more obvious for everyone, etc.
WikiLeaks type communicators will be my new best option/tool to be in business.
I will look for someone in my organisation unhappy to use him to leak some information part real to a whistleblower to help him to be trusted.
A little bit of persecution and jail will help to make the whole thing more real.
And I will have a new source to pass whatever information I want and that will be reproduced in main international media and that will be reproduce everywhere and for free.
So after all Assange, Manning, etc. could be working for US intelligence and for free without knowing it.
@103
Aug 27th, 2012 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure thing, Dany. Maybe it's a plot behind the plot. And probably another plot behind that one as well. And so on. And so on. Probably some aliens in there too somewhere.
Or could it be it's all a smokescreen to maintain Messiah status while dodging a charge of sexual assault? This would also explain other aspects of the case, such as :
- the systematic misrepresentation of Swedish judicial procedures
- the demand for impossible guarantees
- the denial of ECHR legislation in both Sweden and the UK
- the victimisation of the (alleged) victims
- the smear campaigns against anybody in the press or legal world who queries the plot itself or any of the above
And that would mean the principal victim of the whole business remains Bradley Manning, and the second wikileaks.
@104 - Hans
Aug 27th, 2012 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good post. I agree with you.
@101 -Moriety
Huh? So wikileaks release some years ago, embarrassing, but not devastating to governments and so that is why they're after Assange?
I like this bit of your post: ”Wiki Leaks released US Diplomatic cables that showed the US Government enjoyed spying on British politicians (their allies) as much as they enjoyed spying on their enemies such as the Iranians.“
Well, you do know that this has been happening for years, don't you? And it's not just the US. The British spy on friend and enemy alike, as do the French, Germans, Israeli's, Indians, Iranians, Chinese, Japanese etc.
This has been going on since, well time immemorial. It certainly isn't anything new, and it's part of the 'game' of diplomacy.
This bit of your post is good too: ”The US Government hasn't said that they won't seek to extradite Assange. They need to, otherwise they continue to look like a petchulant little child. If justice is to be served, they have to.“
Well the minute they did, many people including yourself, would immediately stand up and say, ”ah, you see, they WERE planning to extradite him, but because we've made all this fuss, now they aren't.”
The USA are playing this one right by staying out of it, because this has NOTHING to do with them. The only person who does say that they do is Assange himself, and because of that, many people such as yourself, who appear to be willing to believe ANYTHING he says, because he leaked information years ago.
Oh and the man who actually leaked that information, Bradley Manning, could be given the death penalty. All Assange did was take the credit and the glory, and now he seeks to pervert the course of justice by hiding behind wikileaks.
Don't worry he'll get to court, and his conspiracy will not happen proving him to be a liar. He will have then wrecked wikileaks reputation, to try and save his own neck, and wikileaks will be obsolete, because how could anyone believe them after that?
For: 11 Clyde15
Aug 27th, 2012 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hello,
Like my wife, you’re one of those who THINKS they know everything but you patently don’t!
ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
“A Grân-Bretanha tem que ir ao dialgo com o Equador para criarem uma solução para resolverem o caso do sir.Assange”
My Portuguese ain’t perfect but here you go:
In order to resolve the Assange affair, Great Britain must open a dialogue with Ecuador.
Cheers!
Jim, in Madrid.
#106
Aug 27th, 2012 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have me here pal. Correct, I don't know everything, and I don't think I know everything and neither do you know everything - or do you ?
I don't speak Portuguese and would make no comment about the statement until I knew exactly what it meant.
The “supposed ”rule about posting here is that it should be in English. Look at the notes on posting - last sentence !!!!!!
You are lucky to have such a perceptive wife to keep you on the straight and narrow.
I have reviewed my posting at11 and cannot resolve what you say with what I have written. I have expressed my opinion as does everyone else on the forum.
What specifically has “offended” your sense of righteousness that I seem to be singled out for notice.
Back to Assange, if the UK do nothing, then eventually it will be resolved.
Could you agree with that ?
88 and 91 Isolde
Aug 27th, 2012 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.. And I am fully aware that many of the malvinistas JAssange just because their support against the UK. The enemy of my enemy is my friend syndrome ....
I agree with you. You can not build a better world based on hate, revenge and resentment.
.... No way to peace, peace is the way. Mahatma Gandhi
.... Men build too many walls and not enough bridges. Isaac Newton British mathematician and physicist.
... I hope I am wrong, I would not see JAssange in Guantanamo ....
I see you have convictions and good judgment. No need to fully believe CNN, NBC, BBC to realize that the world media that generate opinion, are often linked or influenced by the doctrine of national security and global economic colonialism.
(106) JimHandley
Aug 27th, 2012 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you marry one of my Ex's?
REP:
Aug 28th, 2012 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0What are going on about?
I said in my final post, but mentioned it before even them:
”Wiki Leaks released US Diplomatic cables that showed the US Government enjoyed spying on British politicians (their allies) as much as they enjoyed spying on their enemies such as the Iranians. They were embarrassed about being caught.
For me, I hope MI6 watches their senators- especially the neo-con nutters, if not they are failing the UK as each time those loons make some headway in the senate our soldiers die. It's called spying, it's fine.“
You said in reply:
”I like this bit of your post: ”Wiki Leaks released US Diplomatic cables that showed the US Government enjoyed spying on British politicians (their allies) as much as they enjoyed spying on their enemies such as the Iranians.“
Well, you do know that this has been happening for years, don't you? And it's not just the US. The British spy on friend and enemy alike, as do the French, Germans, Israeli's, Indians, Iranians, Chinese, Japanese etc.”
So what are you banging on about? We both agreed completely.
The one thing about the internet that's good is governments can no longer behave how they used to.
If you live in Brazil or Britain, we will here about how the other government is behaving.
Darwin spoke how species changed and evolved within our complex planet. Now the internet allows us to talk about it.
Most governments that don't give a shit about us humans face a difficult time ahead IF they treat their people as if they are animals.
The comments by South Americans on this board alone shows how much the world has changed. Thank you Sir Tim Berners Lee.
Anyway @REP, I left it us agreeing to disagree due to our seperate viewpoints on the Assange case, most Brit's would accept that. You didn't.
What was your job again? (If you go ballistic on that comment, blame yourself, not me).
@110 - Moriety
Aug 28th, 2012 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who is this REP you keep posting too?
I assume it's me, and you are deliberately mis-spelling my user name, hoping to annoy me. Either that or you just can't read. The only other person who deliberately mis-spells my name is Guzz, but he's far more creative than you are.
Yes we have the right to agree to disagree, but I also have the right to post my views on anything anyone posts.
I just pointed out that all countries spy on friend and enemy alike, and have been doing so for hundreds of years. I was just surprised that you were surprised by this, and wikileaks 'leaking' evidence about it was not actually damaging to any country.
Oh, also are now trying to hint that I'm not British. Well sorry to disappoint you, Moriety but I am. I hail from the North West of England, and we like to have good discussions with people, although we do tend to be stubborn and like to have the last word. No offence is meant, but where I come from people tend to continue discussions with the pre-fix “and another thing...”. We just assume that everyone else likes to do the same.
You want to know what job I do, well I have never kept that a secret. I am a registered nurse, and I currently work in Birmingham at the new QE hospital.
This is completely off topic, but I was wondering about the origin of your screen name. I'm just wondering if it's from literature like mine is.
My screen name is LEPRecon. It's from a children's book called Artemis Fowl by the Irish novelist Eoin Colfer, and it stands for Lower Elements Police (LEP) Reconnaissance (Recon) unit, and according to Mr Colfer is where we get the name Leprechaun from. Since one if my parents is Irish it just seemed suitable. LOL
Oh!
Aug 28th, 2012 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm just Daniel Berger and I like Argies Asados and cute girls ha ha ha
111 Leprecon
Aug 28th, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Want to know ... what is the work I do, so I've never kept secret. I am a registered nurse, and currently work in Birmingham in the new QE hospital ......
I see your profession is a nurse. I work in the health field in Argentina .. With respect I ask. Why do you care about the Falklands?
Thank you very much.
Sorry REP,
Aug 28th, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was a typo each time.
I've no memory of how I chose, or got, Moriety, but was using my real name on several sites several years ago and decided the internet was becoming an advertiser ladened world with loads of hackers as well. I chose it on the spur one evening for whatever reason.
Anyway, back to the subject:
For the sake of continuity you said:
“I just pointed out that all countries spy on friend and enemy alike, and have been doing so for hundreds of years. I was just surprised that you were surprised by this, and wikileaks 'leaking' evidence about it was not actually damaging to any country.”
I was never shocked. It is the USA Government who has been left flustered and seemingly unable to understand that they got caught, or how to deal with it. (Ignoring the release of the cables would have been good).
The sensible would suggest to the Yanks that they ignored it, as in a few years nobody will even remember it. Most don't care anyway.
All Wiki Leaks did was remind us of what governments do on our behalf (or theoretically on our behalf). It was nothing, it is nothing and it will stay as irrelevant unless it is constantly brought back up.
I personally as a Brit would only trust the US Government as far as I could throw them. They have a one-dimensional government that is self-obsessed in matters regarding the world and itself. It doesn't need to be like that.
As to your work place, well, you are Britain's main military hospital as Labour closed the last real ones like the QE in Woolwich. They seem to be doing wonders after an intitial hiccup with Islamic fascist workers there (or just ignorant religious idiots) working there. I know Yorkshire best north of London but not your city. If I could live in Sheffield.....
@113 Raul
We care about the Falklanders as we believe they have the right to chose their own future in the same way that the Yanks, Canadians, Aussies, South Africans and Kiwi's did (etc). Colonialism is dead you Spaniards! :)
@113Raul,
Aug 29th, 2012 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for calling the lslands by their correct name-the Falklands.
@LEPRecon.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm so sorry mate as I did it again.
Now I'm worried as to whether I have some form of dyslexia. I do know I often completely leave words out in a sentence.
114 Moriety
Aug 30th, 2012 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These wrong. The islanders do not have that right. They have interests. They are a product of English colonialism and imperialism continues today specificity of the Malvinas is that the United Kingdom occupied the islands by force in 1833, expelled the original population and did not allow their return, thus violating the territorial integrity of Argentina. Therefore, the possibility remains of the principle of self-determination, as its exercise by the islanders, cause the “disruption of the national unity and territorial integrity” of Argentina. In the Malvinas Question General Assembly of the United Nations included this doctrine - the principle of territorial integrity by referring to the interests and NOT the wishes of the population of the islands - in its resolution 2065 (XX), 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41 / 40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No Self-Determination. Thank you very much.
115 Isolde
You're pathetic. Hatred and bitterness will govern. The translation deceive you. I have no problem to call the Malvinas by his real name. Puerto Argentino, Malvinas Islands people. The island capital is the city of Ushuaia, in Tierra del Fuego Island, capital of the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic islands.
Give up hatred and resentment.
#117
Aug 30th, 2012 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ushaia , capital of Antarctica ???????
A bit of self aggrandisement here !!!!!
When did the rest of the world recognise this title .
You can call Ushaia the capital of anywhere you want but nobody except Argentina has to accept it.
“Give up hate and resentment” - that's a joke coming from your country.
One failed invasion, a government that consistently lies about aggressive intentions of the UK against Argentina. Petty vindictiveness at each turn. Do you expect the Islanders to love you and hand themselves over to your government's tender mercies. Get real !!
Raul,
Aug 30th, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The island capital is the city of Ushuaia, in Tierra del Fuego Island, capital of the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica and South Atlantic islands.”
From Chile let me just say...hahahahahahahahahahahahah...wait...
hahahahahahahaha.
Have a look at a map (a real one) half of Tierra del Fuego is Chilean, so is Cabo de Hornos and the falklands are British. If you don't believe me, just go to any of these places and ask the residents.
And if you are ever in the Antarctic and your boat is sinking, don't wait for the Argie navy to help you, well you can but you will perish waiting:
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/06/world/fg-antarctica6
or
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/06/world/fg-antarctica6
Haha Condorito,
Aug 30th, 2012 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was great!
You are man-enough to understand you exist as a result of Colonialism. Raul isn't. He seems to think he was teleported by a space-cadet directly into South America.
The Spanish? They must be even weirder aliens than Raul clearly is- in his head.
The UK has made their values clear: they will go full steam after sex offenders (understandable given the Anglo/northern European cultural reputation on this issue), but if its a guy that commited atrocities against humanity, let him lose.
Aug 31st, 2012 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0And not just the Pinochet example, you have the Lockerbe bomber example.
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice...
So as we can see, the UK trying to get Assange anyway they can, and he didn't kill anyone. But Pinochet or the terrorist guy? Ah nah, they didn't do nottin.
UK: where sexual harrassment is a worse crime than crimes against Humanity.
@117Raul,
Aug 31st, 2012 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well l've been called many things by many people, so your “pathetic” does not faze me one jot.
l don't know where you got your information from but its all incorrect.
Your silly country's writ doesn't run here & you don't own Antarctica.
Why do we use Pounds & not Pesos?
Why do we have our own respectable flag & not a silly rag with a sun's face on it(?)?
Why do we have on our walls, portraits of our Queen & not photocopies of your recycled rubber-faced empress?
We speak English, not Spanish.
No dearest Raul, l think that you need to think again.
Because everything that you've said is rubbish.
118 Clyde15
Aug 31st, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I expect nothing from the British islanders. We have memory, we do not forget that Argentina suffered four British invasions. (1806-1807-1833 and 1845 on the back of Obligor. We have every reason to take offense.
Remember: Give up the hate and resentment, if you want to build a better world!
19 Condorito: From Chile let me tell you ... hahahahahah ... wait ...
hahaha
You are pathetic and pitiful. Read the following link and remember that he who laughs last, laughs best ...
Chile ratifies support Malvinas Argentinas, meets regional group solidarity
Foreign Minister Alfredo Moreno Chile ratified support for Argentina's claim to sovereignty over the Falklands / Malvinas Islands during a meeting with a delegation of the Andean countries that belong to the “Group Solidarity with Malvinas”.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/08/31/chile-ratifies-support-for-argentine-malvinas-meets-regional-solidarity-group
There is no point making fun of others. You yourself spit.
120 Moriety
Study some history and you will realize. No need to be too smart to realize the English imperialism and colonialism. At the end of the day the British were inventors of racism and genocide. In 500 years of history the British killed and killed more than Nazi Germany. Study a little history and you will realize.
122 Isolde
No dearest Raul, I think you need to think again.
For all that you have said is nonsense.
Dear Isolde: Nothing is nonsense. Argentina suffered four British invasions (1806-1807-1833 and 1845). Have sufficient capacity to understand that nothing is silly. Nobody is asking you to leave the islands, or your culture or your language, and your pictures. I do not expect you to accept the legitimate rights of Argentina. With the same bright expusiste your opinion about the Assange case, only to understand that there Argentinos populating the islands and they were expelled in the context of colonialism and imperialism English in 1833. It is a claim of strict justice.
Have peace
#123
Aug 31st, 2012 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 01845? Isn't it time you came into the 21st century. Most of your current Argentinians predecessors had not even left Europe by then.
So what you are saying is that the current population have a gripe about what happened before most of their ancestors had even arrived !
Remember, the Islanders suffered a more recent invasion in 1982.
It was not peaceful and it was a miracle that no British troops or islanders were killed in the initial landings. WE HAVE EVERY REASON TO TAKE OFFENSE !!!!
Give up hate and resentment if you want to build a better world.
That' s exactly what we have been saying to Argentina time and time again. We may as well howl at the moon.
” There's none so deaf as those who don't want to hear!
124 Clyde15
Aug 31st, 2012 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Clyde15:
I make you the same question. Is not it time to enter the 21st century? Giving Yourself by four British invasion with the consequences of genocide and military and economic terrorism.
Learn to understand and study in Latin America in general and Argentina in particular have suffered from colonialism and imperialism in English and that continues today. Just look at the humanitarian bombing civilians and on preventive war in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. Today Argentina are threatening with nuclear bombs at its base in the islands, corresponding claim by strict justice.
Do you not hear or read the resolutions of United Nations and decolonization committee?
Are we asking too much to England that complies with international law? In resolution 2065 (XX) of 1965, ratified by later resolutions 1973 (3160, XXVIII) 1976 (31/49), 1982 (37/9), 1983 (38/12), 1984 (39/6), 1985 (40/21), 1986 (41/40), 1987 (42/19) and 1988 (43/25). They all declare the existence of a sovereignty dispute. No self-determination and that England is bound and does not listen to the committee of UN decolonization. Of the 16 cases of colonialism in the world, 10 are caused by England. Does that not tell you something?
Nor hears claims of multilateral organizations such as the OAS, CELAC, UNASUR and MERCOSUR. Everyone is claiming that England feel to talk. England does not comply with international law.
So everyone is asking? Who is not listening?
Ask yourself you? Who is deaf? Who is the blind who will not see?
The decolonization committee of United Nations convened the June 14, 2012, to Argentina and the United Kingdom to discuss the sovereignty of the islands. Argentina was represented by its President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, UK did not attend. So I ask you again Who is deaf or blind who will not hear or see? World public opinion is very clear on this point by criticizing the United Kingdom does not comply with the notice and international law.
Thank you very much.
@125 Raul,
Aug 31st, 2012 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're wrong again Raul.
This is our land not yours & we will never submit to your incompetent alien rule.
We fully intend to keep our language, culture, pictures & flag etc, thank you very much.
You have no rights here despite the lies that you were taught at school.
You know that there was no civilian expulsion, just a bit of research by you would confirm that.
But you won't do that research will you Raul?
You are frightened about what you will find!
You would then have to admit that you've been fed lies by your sucessive governments & your education system(?).
Even if your version is correct(it isn't), so what?
The so-called “expelled” (not-)Argentines would have been trespassing on British land. And had they have existed & been expelled, then we would have had every right to do so.
The way we expelled you invaders in 1982.
And as for you linking my thoughts on JAssange with the Falklands!- well you live in a fantasy world, dear Raul!
The two are not conected in anyway.
You like to quote UNGA resolutions, which are NOT binding, merely suggestions.
You convieniently forget UNSC resolution 502, which IS binding.
That Argentina remove its troops from the Falkland lslands in 1982.
A resolution that Argentina refused.
And please tell me, Raul.
How do you justify Argentina's ridiculous “claims” on South Georgia“
No Argentine has ever lived there. lt was British before Argentina even existed.
no Raul, your country thought that we were weak & you could do as you liked.
You are at least 150 years too late to start thinking of an ”Argentine Empire”.
lt seems that you are very blind & willnot see.
And thank you very much also♥
Raul,
Aug 31st, 2012 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am laughing because you declare Ushuaia the capital of Tierra del Fuego and the Antarctic. Chile's current diplomatic stance is irrelevant. Neither Tierra del Fuego, the Falklands or the Antarcitc belong to Argentina. Get over it. Such delusion can only make me laugh. And I am still laughing.
#125 Raul
Sep 01st, 2012 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think we are going to agree on much and I will deal with your points as best I can
Four British invasions - I can only think of three and all of them were as part of a multi-national force - not as the UK alone.
Iraq. Most of the population of the UK were against this war. Initially the Iraquis welcomed the the overthrow of Sadam Hussein but no thought had been given how to win the peace. The UK has had no benefit from this war - it has cost us money.
Civilians were killed in the fighting but they were not targetted as such.
More were harmed by the UN sanctions and the regimes syphoning off money meant for medical supplies and food.
Afghanistan. The jury is still out on this but again we as a country have had no material benefit apart from the removal of Al Queida bases.
Again, it is costing us billions and lives for no material gain to our country.
Libya. A humanitarian disaster was about to happen. Ghadafi would have raised the town of Bhengazi and all its occupants to rubble if the coalition had not used its air power to destroy the Libyan air force and allow the free Libyan people to get rid of an odious dictator
As to genocide, where have we practiced this recently.
Genocide is defined as the total extirpation and extermination of a race of people by government policy. An example would be the Nazi's extermination of the Jews and Gypsies in WW2 by setting up a sophisticated system of transportation to various death camps.
Approx. 6 million were killed in this way.
The UK was instrumental in stopping this while Argentina twiddled its thumbs and made money.
As to nuclear weapons based on the Falklands threatening Argentina, this is complete and utter nonsense. The UK has 225 nuclear warheads and these can only be delivered by our force of submarines. We gave up air delivered bombs and nuclear depth charges ages ago.
The weapons would only be used as a retort to a nuclear attack against us.
So, you can sleep safely in your bed.
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