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Thousands of Chilean students march demanding education reform
Thousands of young Chileans marched peacefully on Thursday in different cities demanding education reform and equal conditions and rights for all young Chileans, amid a heightened police presence. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe details of how these protesters have been treated are horrific, if this was Argentina or Venezuela the usual suspects here would be raising hell over this...
Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Os estudantes do Chile tem todo o direito de protestar eles querem soluções que dão respostas aos problemas dos jovens o governo do Chile tem que fazer reformas na educação o acesso ao ensino das familias das de rendas medias e baixas são direitos dos jovens
Aug 24th, 2012 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seems Chiles youth think this liberal crap is affecting their education, regardless what western statistics say :)
Aug 24th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”British_Kirchnerist (#)
Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aug 24th, 2012 - 01:13 am
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The details of how these protesters have been treated are horrific, if this was Argentina or Venezuela the usual suspects here would be raising hell over this...“
Don't be a hypocrite... the worst happening is they get wet by the police trucks when they start vandalizing. In Argentina much worse things happen and they never get to ”publicity”, like for example the ouster of argentine native indigenas/indios off their homes, and being killed by police like animals, police burning their houses down, etc... You would NEVER see such thing in Chile, but in Kichners Afrintina this seems to be normal.
You are all so hypocrite...
Uncensored video footage from a policemen (who regrets his deeds and subsequently made it public)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g6LdUUsh64&feature=related
no matter what those “statistics” says, reality is, in and out of the so called OECD “club”...Chile has the worst educational system in Latin America. But ach, it's trendy to be a “neoliberal”..(if they only knew what neoliberal really means).
Aug 24th, 2012 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fido Dido spreading his stupidity again... OECD has never published that Chile has the worst educational system in Latin America. It might be the most expensive, which goes in line with the country with the highest income in the region too. But that does not mean it's the worst one.
Aug 24th, 2012 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you insist it, post the source. If you don't, you admit that you are biggest liar arround Mercopress... (it wouldn't be the first time you spread “rumors” arround)
#4 I agree such things (probably outside of Cristina's direct jurisdiction, as Argentina isn't a dictatorship and there is a separation of powers) are wrong. In any country. I doubt if you and the conservatives on here could say the same
Aug 26th, 2012 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 04 ManRod (#)
Aug 26th, 2012 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are extremely ignorant. Yes, Chile's educational system is the most expensive in the region, but do not look past the fact that accounting for GDP per capita, it is also the most expensive in the world.
And what you said about the worst that happens is people getting wet? I don't know if your Chilean, or maybe looking in from another country or possibly live up in Las Condes and are completely out of touch with the rest of the country, much like the president and those politicians. Last year, a student Manuel Rodriguez, died in Macul, killed in cold blood by the carabineros. During every march there are reports of abse of power and even sexual abuse at the hands of carabineros. Last week during the secondary marches, and get this straight, these are female high school students, whose ages range from 13 to 17 were forced to strip naked by police and according to reports some sexually assaulted. Have you not seeing Chile's repression of the Mapuche communities in the South? Being forced off their lands, their homes destroyed and the peoples seriously wounded. And you obviously have not seen the repression against the students and pretty much anyone who thinks differently to those governing the country at the moment. Your ignorance is humorous yet frighting. Watch the news, read the papers and possibly go down to Santiago center during the marches and let me know if you still think the same. Informate.
Photos of bloody students are popping up everywhere.
Aug 26th, 2012 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Bye bye Piñera, bye bye UK from Chile ;)
BK, there is no real seperation of powers in Argentina. in September 2010, the highest court of justice in Argentina ruled that terrorist Apablaza had to be delivered to Chilean authorities. Cristina violated this rule, by impeding and “overrruling” it.
Aug 27th, 2012 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0And what a coincidence... her personal PR assitant (Paula Chain) is married with this terrorist. Conflict of interest? nahhhh... there is seperation of powers in Argentina. LOL.
Alfredo, Chile's educational system is neither the most expensive of the world. Check out what you pay for example in US or other North American/European and even Asian universities. Way higher.
And the boy that died, it was revealed as a very tragic accident, nobody wanted to “kill” this guy, which was not even involved in the protest (even the students want it to look like, it adds fake drama into their claims).
Alfredo,
Aug 27th, 2012 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I support the students’ right to protest but to be fair I also think the carabinero response has been commensurate with the violence of the protesters. It is always a grey area and there are always abuses on either side. I have a brother-in-law who is a carabinero in Santiago. He has to suffer a significant amount of abuse from the encapuchdos. I have a business in the centre of town and every time there is a protest we have to shut up early and panic as how to get everyone home safely. Twice my vehicles have had the windows smashed in and once the office vandalised. Insurance doesn’t cover “industrial disputes” so that all comes out of my pocket.
You say to ManRod that he should go to the centre of Santiago to see the truth. I say to you that your luxury position is consistent with a person who suffers no economic loss from the protests; has no children in schools that are affected; and is not on the receiving end of petrol bombs.
ManRod is right to say that the students are only getting soaked with water cannon. I am sure if individual carabineros are acting with excessive force they will be delt with. If they are not then that is a problem that needs to be addressed, but it is a separate issue from the student protests.
I have a huge amount of respect for the institution of the carabineros. In 20 years they have gone from a feared institution to a widely respected one. Do you not remember the public outpouring of grief when general José Bernales died. Give them some credit.
You say:
“repression against... anyone who thinks differently to those governing the country at the moment”
Are you seriously suggesting that the carabineros act differently under this government than they did under the last?
As for the Mapuche, I am more Mapuche than most of them and I am not claiming land that is not mine.
Guzz,
Yes bye bye Piñera. Our constitution only allows one term.
#11 I not only support the students right to protest, but the objectives of the protes; despite this, I of course understand and respect the duty of the police to maintain order and restrain any violence. My question is, how can the stripping naked of female protesters by male police be seen as “commensurate”?
Aug 28th, 2012 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0BK
Aug 28th, 2012 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right, the stripping of students is clearly not commensurate with the level of violence. I was actually referring to that kind of incident as an example of the abuses that takes place on either side. That is why I said: “I am sure if individual carabineros are acting with excessive force they will be dealt with”.
The police involved in the stripping incident have already been identified and I am quite sure they will be dismissed before the month is out.
As for the aims of the protests: I am sympathetic to the cause, but only if the budget is there (and at the moment it is not). It would be great if everything were free, but unfortunately everything has to be paid for sooner or later. As your country sits under a crushing mountain of debt (which doubled under Blair) you should understand why we don’t want to follow you there.
You should also note that during the last 20 years of “left” governments, not once did they deviate from the strict fiscal rules and not once did they seek to reform the education system in the way they are now so avidly doing. If you didn’t discriminate so much by political labels you would be able to see that much of the fuel being thrown on this fire (student protests) is tribal political rivalry.
Have a look at this BK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j34Wm4p6OGU
The police, with no riot gear. At second 28 an encapuchado smashes a policeman in the face with a skateboard. The mob then set upon the fallen carabinero.
Or how about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j34Wm4p6OGU
Just look at those “students”, puberty hits them early.
What I’m saying is, that there is police violence, but there are violent groups that infiltrate all protests making it hard for the police to do their job. However, in recent years when the police are identified abusing protesters they are speedily dealt with.
11 Condorito, I completely agree with you on some of your points. My support for the students is very quickly fading precisely because of the damage they cause to the city and their violence towards carabineros . Many are delinquents who come to marches purely to cause trouble and destroy everything in their path. I do however feel that the education system in Chile needs reform. It cannot itself be a business hence my support for the cause. I myself am a student. And i pointed out, per capita, it is the most expensive in the world. Yes in total sums, foreigners pay a lot more, say Americans and Europeans however they also earn a lot more, comparatively Chileans pay a very high price yet earn very little (ManRod#). I must also mention free education just isn't an option. It is unsustainable and something most students don't understand.
Aug 29th, 2012 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Back to the point, i am against violence from both sides. I believe carabineros have the right to respond with force when force is required. There is a fine line however between using the apporiate amount and going over the top, it just so happens that a lot of the time they do indeed go over the top and its normally against the wrong groups. Los encapuchados normally get away, while civilians and peaceful marchers face the reactions from carabineros. And its not just a bit of water. I say this from experience. I am witness and victim of excessive and unnecessary force. I understand they are just trying to do their jobs, but the way many violently conduct themselves and indiscriminately is wrong.
I feel for business owners like you, and the people who live around Santiago centro. Its unfortunate.I also feel for the Chilean economy. I think its safe to say that given the current socio cultural problems many businesses may choose not to invest in the country.
Alfredo,
Aug 29th, 2012 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your post. I think we both agree in our desire to see education improve and violent protests stop.
It is important to remember that, to some extent, these demands are being made because the country is richer and everyone wants a piece of the cake. This is thanks to 20 years of fiscal prudence. If we want to continue improving, the education debate must be held within that frame.
There is also a lot of exaggeration about the cost of education in Chile. For example the average private school fee (annual) in the UK is about USD 16k
Here it is USD5k, so about a third the cost, whereas professional salaries here are about the same as in the UK (finance excluded). It is certainly true that per capita we spend more and that is because so many of us opt for private education because the public schools are so bad.
Fortunately, on your last point you are wrong. Chile is still seen as a very attractive place to invest.
Saludos.
#13 I'm glad you're not condoning the strippings; as I read the article I thought it was official policy, if as you say it was only a few bad apples then my regard for the carabineros would indeed go up if and when they are disciplined for it. On the point about the previous “left” governments, I'm certainly no uncritical supporter of them and would criticise them for not having made education more equitable sooner. My hope is that with the left shift in the continent as a whole, if Bachelet, who if I understand correctly was more left wing than anyone else in her government, returns, then she will be able to be more radical next time. The fact there is now a groundswell of pressure for change from below is also a major change in the Chilean situation I consider positive; this doesn't mean I support any violent excesses that individual students may have gone to in the heat of the moment
Aug 31st, 2012 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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