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Top tax-man suggests Argentines spend vacations in the country, but he prefers Punta del Este

Saturday, September 1st 2012 - 06:50 UTC
Full article 62 comments

Argentines should stay at home and spend their vacation in Argentina, suggested the head of the tax revenue office, AFIP, arguing in favour of the latest measures severely limiting debit and credit card purchases abroad by charging them an additional 15% expense. Read full article

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  • Britworker

    “Don't do as we do, do as we say”
    Jeez, those Argentines must be the stupidest people on the planet!

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Cestrian

    What a fucking hypocrite. Honestly when will the Argentines wake up and see the corruption and stupidity of your politicians. They are creaming it off whilst they spin these yearns.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ken Ridge

    Desperate measures from a desperate Government, wake up and open your eye's Argentina.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    @1/2/3 :As 80% of argentines cannot afford to travel abroad , let alone have credit cards , the measure doesn't affect them .As usual , it's the middle class who are being squeezed to destruction .This latest ploy is effectively a double taxation . Middle class salaries are already taxed at about 42% . Any argentines wanting to go on sales trips or trade fairs are equally hit , so it will affect the countries' export drive .

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    But surely no more hypocritical than all those years exhorting “Buy British”.
    From wagons to wellies, to condos and holidays on the Costa, the Brits have always understood the public rhetoric but bought and holidayed in their own personal interests.
    Social cost / private gain.
    All countries in dire straits are no different; and their leaders will always 'live the high life' whatever they exhort. Because they can.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • BLACK CAT

    Politburo, alive and well in Latin America

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Beef

    Not long before Argies need permission to travel. Welcome to the North Korea of South America. Can any Argie tell me why you tolerate a government that stops you doing what you want with your own money?

    Beef is booking his property search trip to Florida 2013. Nice 5 bed place with pool on a guarded community to keep the rif raf out :-)

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    15% on credit cards that can be offset against tax is nothing to most of the Argentinian people who own property in the East.

    My next door neighbour only visits his lovely house for 4 weeks in the year. His mother and sisters make up another two, so for 46 weeks the place is completly empty.

    He rides over here on his BMW motorbike and his wife and two kids fly private charter to the local airport (no waiting at MVD or driving 120 Km for them).

    And why not? He has his own business which employs people and he works hard. TMBOA could take a leaf out of his book and it would be better for Argentina.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Argentina is fast running out of dollars and as it is regarded as a pariah state by international money lenders they will have no other option but to devalue the Peso.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Perhaps the next measured step will be pulling their passports to insure they do not spend money outside of argentina.
    Allowing 16 years olds to vote (la campora)
    Foreign residents to vote (imported by the regime)
    Outlawing U$
    Taxing credit card purchases
    telling citizens where to vacation
    A war against the working middle class. Why do they continue to take it?

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    I wish I could criticise him, but British politicians spout the same do as I say but not as I do.
    However he serves as another good reason why the Falkland Islanders don't want to be Argentine - worse off with fewer freedoms.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    Argentina is not becoming Venezuela. It already is.

    Every week a new authoritarian measure applied and scandal that goes unpunished. The weakest of resistance -just name calling- and zero accountability and castigation.

    Didnt a chap Newton say something about laws of motion or something...
    equal and opposing forces and the like...

    Unless theres a force to stop these scum theyll keep on enforcing more and more authority over the masses. And the more they get away with the more emboldened and self righteous they become. Thats who they are.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Goebbels would be so proud! Calling a devaluation a tax...how clever. Do they think no one will notice?

    Austral anyone?

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    All this 'clamping of the dollar' will only affect those that oppose the P system. Its deliberate oppression of a demographic. And its the very demographic that has the ability to take Argentina forward.

    The 'government' says it wants to be protect and improve the value of the peso. Well rather than taxing the middleclass for the fruits of the governments fcuk ups over the last decade how about the 'government' takes responsibility and provides an environment where people WANT to use the peso? Simple

    oh... because they are the mafia. I almost forgot.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #7 14% to 26% taxes doesn't stop Canadians from doing busyness or traveling abroad why should 15% stop Argentines???? Besides how else do you think governments get wealthier without taxes?? Am Argentine I love the tax and lets hope Argentina pushes for higher taxes on raw material and minerals exports and a restriction on gold exports.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @15 Argentina is currently the World's top protectionist country and Argentian has more international trade disputes running than any other country in the World.

    Does this give a hint to you that CFK and Co are out of their depth?

    A devaluation of the Peso will come as Argentina is regarded as a pariah state by international money lenders. Best stock up with foreign currency.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    Pirat -Hunter

    What computer are you using? If you bought it in Argentina then look for the equivalent computer on Amazon.com and notice the price difference.

    The difference in price in these goods and all other domestic electrical appliances goes in to the pocket of the government just because they say so and for what? Thats already a huge tax and now they are adding more on top of that. Huge inflation and a desperate 'government' that has run out of cash.

    The responsibility is with the 'government' to be as efficient as possible with the tax money. Its their job to manage the economy. Its what they are paid to do. Its not to take more and more money from people who have money (their enemies incidently) because they arent doing a good job with managing the economy. In fact it shows clearly that they are failing.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @15 pita punter

    “14% to 26% taxes doesn't stop Canadians from doing busyness or traveling abroad why should 15% stop Argentines????”

    You don't know what you are you talking about. You are talking nonsense!!
    Ten years ago, there was a combined domestic sales tax of 14%, now 7-12%.
    Credit card and debit card purchases abroad and on-line, do not have that tax applied by Canada.
    Residents of Canada returning from abroad after 48 hours, are essentially exempt from taxes on goods they purchased, by Canadian authorities.

    That was a hopeless try. You cannot compare Canada to Argentina.
    Canada is not trying to restrict trade like CFK.

    “Am Argentine I love the tax and lets hope Argentina pushes for higher taxes on raw material and minerals exports and a restriction on gold exports.”

    Umm, ok. Other countries will buy less from Argentina and your exports will fall at the same time that your taxes have flattened the domestic market.
    How will that affect your economy? (rhetorical question, only)

    Support CFK blindly, at any cost.

    Nothing you have said is true, or makes any sense.

    YOU know that. :-)

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RICO

    On behalf of all my friends in the Falklands I would like to back Ricardo Echegaray and say we also “prefer that Argentines remain at home” particularly hockey players.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Bfair

    @13
    Why Isolde keep posting under yankeeboy. ?

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @15 Do you actually live in Argentina? Almost everyone in Argentina tries to avoid tax. 50% of the workforce is 'on the black' so they can avoid paying tax. I know of numerous Argentines across the social spectrum devoting their energies to avoiding paying if they can. If challenged, as I did, explaining that paying their taxes would improve their appalling schools, roads, health care etc., they assure me that nothing would improve except the bank accounts of politicians and government officials.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • cornelius

    Today Colombia economy overtook Argentina with a higher GDP and Paraguay exported 300000 tons of beef less than Argentina in 2011(consider the size of the country) is Argentina Bolivarian economic model slipping further ha! of course they have clowns running their economy.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Uruguay is freaking out over this, all their prices just went up 15%! What shame they have an old weak drunk senile commie running their country.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @23 yankeeboy

    “What shame they have an old weak drunk senile commie running their country.”

    Hey, Yankee, Uraguay may not be best friends of EU and NA, but he is way better than CFK and Chavez, only intent on lining their pockets instead of looking after their populations.

    If you really are a Yank, you'll see this at home too, if Romney undoes all the social programs (health care) for your people.
    He's a Multi-millionaire who has a lot of hingry friends in the private sector.

    I truly wish the USA luck in the next election.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #16 we elected this government to protect the Argentine economy not the WTO, because the WTO is there to protect white trash interests. Good try but don't cry for Argentine's, I am hoping the peso goes bust so Argentina will change the paper money to gold coins. It's a no brainer , gold doesn't devaluate.
    #17 taxes are good I got 728.00 $ out of 952.26 $ earned this weak alone from a 4 days work. Try to figure out how much taxes we pay in a month and you will understand why Canada might be better of then Argentina, and that is just one of the many taxes we pay, at all fuel station there is a sign stating there is a 26% for road tax, and in bars and restaurants if you drink alchohol there is a higher tax charge. In mining there is a different charge for every other raw material and if you don't agree with it nobody cares because that is the law. Argentina shouldn't go by what everyone says but do as other nations do dictate our own laws without caring for outsiders. As Canada and USA do.
    #18 obviously you never travel abroad and brought goods back into Canada, here is the list of taxes and complications you need to know about Canada before talking BS about Argentina. My family left Argentina do to the lack of government protection against international corruption and theft by pirates. I will love to return. When the mining corporations clean up their act and contribute to the state through taxes. I pay taxes why shouldn't the real polluters pay too. And I will push for more fines and tariffs for polluters to turn Argentina into a good and profitable state. If you check the link you will see that it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about, and everyone can see it. You know!
    www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ifcrc-rpcrc-eng.html#a4
    #19 do you think any Argentine care of what a illegal aliens wet back thinks ??
    #21 sweety I payed 20% taxes this week alone, 200$ tax deduction on 900.00$ earned. On top of that I pay 8 to 14% taxes on every item I purchase.

    Sep 01st, 2012 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @25 P unter

    “#18 obviously you never travel abroad and brought goods back into Canada, here is the list of taxes and complications you need to know about Canada before talking BS about Argentina. My family left Argentina do to the lack of government protection against international corruption and theft by pirates. I will love to return. When the mining corporations clean up their act and contribute to the state through taxes. I pay taxes why shouldn't the real polluters pay too. And I will push for more fines and tariffs for polluters to turn Argentina into a good and profitable state. If you check the link you will see that it is you who doesn't know what he is talking about, and everyone can see it. You know!”

    Yes, that is the list on import charges. I travel frequently to Europe, Cuba, and Mexico, not to mention multiple trips to the US each year.
    I can tell you that unless a traveller is buying a really significant purchase, a car, a boat, etc., they are not going to bring more than $800 back each.
    If you travel by car, and declare goods over the limit, unless it is booze or tobacco, you will likely go through without paying taxes, if it is for personal consumption.

    MOST IMPORTANTLY,, any money we spend on our credit cards or debit cards, from our Canadian accounts, DO NOT have “14-26%” taxes added on by our government, unlike Argentina!
    Of course, that was just a “subtle bit of mis-statement ” lby you for the sake of your arguement.

    @15 P unter
    “Am Argentine I love the tax and lets hope Argentina pushes for higher taxes on raw material and minerals exports and a restriction on gold exports.”

    But now you tell us you left Argentina

    @25
    “ My family left Argentina do to the lack of government protection against international corruption and theft by pirates. I will love to return. ”

    You have said you “love” the taxes, but do you have any idea what it must be like for the actual working residents/citizens of Argentina??
    No, I did not think so!

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    24 A majority(60%+) of the citizens of the USA want to get rid of national healthcare and greatly reduce the social welfare programs. I think (and hope) Romney will win by a landslide and rout out the Progressives policies once an for all.
    I do not want my country turning into Argentina!

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #26 Maybe I should send you the border duty charged when buying items on the Internet, if you have a credit card and used it to purchase items that come from USA there is a duty charge on top of taxes and shipping and a friendly note from the seller explaining the border duty surcharge, now I just buy Canadian items and let the competition bring the prices to par.
    I pay a lot of taxes in Canada and if I do it for Canada Argentine's should do it for Argentina, if they haven it bad is because they are Lazy and not working enough. Taxes will get them working trust me they need money to feed themselves, and taxes usually gets people working more to overcome the tax loss and keep their jobs since without paying taxes you can't work all you can do is push forward, the wealthiest nations on earth have the highest taxes ever heard of, do your research before talking BS.
    Onario tax hst otherways known as provincial tax and good and services tax =13%, duty tax is from 0 to 22% and beyond, road tax = 26%, now tobacco and alcohol is a wooping 200% duty and also subject to confiscation, Read then whole Page not just the titles,
    http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ifcrc-rpcrc-eng.html#a4

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @28 Punter
    So, you live in Ontario and you are sucking on the Canadian tit while you despise and denigrate her government, her institutions and her people!

    Ungrateful hater.

    You said,
    “14% to 26% taxes doesn't stop Canadians from doing busyness or traveling abroad why should 15% stop Argentines???? ”

    For the sake of your argument, you are subtly, but deliberately, misleading readers from other countries, to make them believe that Canada slaps a large tax on ALL purchases by credit or debit card, that Canadians make abroad.

    That is absolutely NOT true. Canada does NOT do that.
    It seems, by this article, that of the two, only Argentina will do that.

    Canada does have two sales taxes GST (Federal) and PST(Provincial), or a “Harmonised” Sales Tax, combining the two of them (but you know this already).

    The GST Sales Taxes are paid on all Goods and Services purchased in Canada or goods brought into Canada.
    PST (if any) is paid on most goods in their respective provinces or imported into the province.

    HST is paid on ALL goods and services in the provinces that have it, and on all goods imported.

    These taxes are added to the purchase price of goods or services at the time of sale, or upon entry to Canada.

    GST is 5%, payable in ALL provinces, unless combined with the PST to make the HST

    Typically:
    GST (5%) + PST = Total Sales Tax or HST

    Province of British Columbia, therefore pays
    GST 5% + PST 7% = HST 12%
    I believe that Ontario is the highest (you will let me know)
    GST 5% + PST 8% = HST 13%
    Alberta has NO PST, therefore,
    GST 5% + PST 0% = 5% Total Sales Tax

    Therefore, Canadian Sales Tax is 5-13% in Canada only.
    Not 14-26% either.

    I can travel abroad all I like and I do NOT pay Canadian Sales Taxes.
    Apparently, from what the article says and the way you have interpreted it, too, ARGENTINA WILL TAX THEIR CITIZENS ON MONEY SPENT ABROAD, OR ESSENTIALLY, CURRENCY LEAVING THE COUNTRY.
    Two different things, altogether.

    2 be continued

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • agent999

    @28

    http://buenosaires.angloinfo.com/countries/argentina/generaltaxes.asp

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    http://en.mercopress.com/2012/09/01/top-tax-man-suggests-argentines-spend-vacations-in-the-country-but-he-prefers-punta-del-este#comment159748: If Romney is elected then the US will definitely become Argentina - Argentina of the 1930's and before. That is the US will become an oligarchy in which there are a few very rich people, a large population of the poor and low social mobility. Even if Romney is not elected this outcome may occur in any case. Already the rich control most of the country, the middle class is becoming poorer and social mobility is low.

    What the US needs is a candidate who can say, as Roosevelt did, that he welcomes the ire organized money. Unfortunately, Obama is not such a candidate.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tim

    Problem is that these half-baked idiots that try to run this country have run out of cash - except for what they steal to line their pockets. As my mother-in-law says, it reminds her of Poland when the Soviets moved in, we are now under a communist dictatorial state.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @28 P unter
    “road tax = 26%,”
    That's obfuscation, you are mis-representing information for the sake of your arguement. That Road Tax is already blended into the price of fuel at the petrol station and is part of your provincial Income Tax.
    This is similar in most countries - NOT a surcharge.

    @28
    PH
    “I pay a lot of taxes in Canada and if I do it for Canada Argentine's should do it for Argentina”

    Good for you, you pay your taxes, Wow!
    Sounds like you resent it and therefore wish it on others.

    Bear in mind that, in Canada, the taxes you pay actually go towards Health, Education, Social Program, infrasructure, like they are supposed to.
    Unlike Argentina, where it goes to your beloved CFK and her privileged cronies (and La Campora) who line their own pockets.
    Ordinary Argentinians make do with less or pay for services we take for granted.

    @28 PH
    “if they have it bad is because they are Lazy and not working enough.”

    Really, who the hell are you to decide that??

    @28 PH
    “Taxes will get them working trust me they need money to feed themselves, and taxes usually gets people working more to overcome the tax loss and keep their jobs”

    Honestly, did you say that?? Are you out of your mind? Where did that economic theory come from?
    Are you saying that is truly the Argentinian Government policy, to squeeze the average citizen to point of subsistance to make him work more?
    And you think this is acceptable practice?

    @28 PH
    “, the wealthiest nations on earth have the highest taxes ever heard of, do your research before talking BS.”

    Hmmm, the US has lower taxes than Canada and they are doing better than Argentina.
    China - well you can't tax people that have nothing, but their economy is doing well.
    Europe and the UK have high taxes, but you Malvinistas keep telling us they are broke and faltering.

    Any economist will tell you, that to have a healthy strong economy, you need a strong Middle Class.
    CFK is pounding Argentina's into oblivion.

    More later...

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    “I pay a lot of taxes in Canada and if I do it for Canada Argentine's should do it for Argentina”

    Exactly but they don't. It is inculcated in a large section of Argentine society to avoid paying for anything, let alone tax. It was one of the reasons the IMF pulled the rug in 2001/2, the government did not even try to collect correct taxes and Argentines did everything to avoid paying.

    If someone avoids tax in most developed countries they are considered criminals and resented by the majority that do pay their full taxes; it is socially unacceptable. In Argentina society seems to accept it is the norm to avoid paying and anyone getting away with it is considered lucky. It is a 'good for them' reaction.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #33 you mean we pay the 26% as I said but because it's blended I am not allowed to admit it? Who is trying to miss-represent the facts to suit their argument?? I think I already expose the english speaking people as synonyms of hypocrisy, but to support my argument I have knowledge and facts on my side for example the road tax is not part of our income tax unless we are exempt from it by law “AND” plus register to be exempted. Other ways people who pay road tax have to pay income tax or vise versa. The same holds true for all the taxes in ontario unless exempted we must pay all the taxes listed at this link. EVERYONE of this taxes are charged simultaneously. Including HST AKA PST and GST even if you pay HST and road tax and tobacco tax and alcohol tax, you still have to pay property tax and income tax and Canadian border duty charge. If I resent paying tax it's my right to do so I pay it, or is Canada a dictatorship where a person can't have freedom of speech?? Wow you forgot to mention that Canadian tax payers also pay for politicians 5 star hotel and limo rides for the PM and MP's, we also pay for long court fights to keep natives subjugated to the Canadian british servants. I am someone who work for a living and pay taxes and sees that even the poor in Canada gets charged HST, And someone who sees there is no exemption for the poor, that's who I am and I borrow the economic theory from wealthy nations that tax the poor as they tax everyone else but to be honest I borrowed that particular economic theory from Canada as you very well know it, no HST exemption even the hungry and the poor pay HST in Canada. o and lets not forget that you can only collect benefits if you sell your house because there is no capital for those who have property even if you contributed to the Like welfare and workers comp. Seems acceptable in Canada. Doesn't USA have more taxes then Argentina and less then Canada? Wouldn't that support my Argument? www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/tax/index.html

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Happy Canuck

    @35 -- You are correct that Canadians are heavily taxed, but we also receive significant social programs in return. Canada is also one of the most open trading nations in the world. We welcome imports and foreign investment (with some strategic exceptions). Argentina is not in that situation. Argentina is shutting itself off from the world and driving away investors; its domestic production is falling and its inflation is spiralling out of control. Argentina's government is destroying the country's economy. As you have suggested, they should follow the Canadian model. Unfortunately, they aren't.

    To address your comments about the HST and the poor, you should tell the whole story. The poor in Canada face significantly lower rates of income tax than higher income Canadians. Also, lower income Canadians receive sales tax credits on their income tax refunds, effectively lowering the rate of sales tax paid.

    In terms of social benefits in Canada, one does not have to sell one's home to receive benefits. That is an outright lie. Unfortunately, some of my friends have lost their jobs and not one has been forced to sell a house in order to collect unemployment or other social assistance.

    Please stop spreading lies and half truths about Canada. If you like Argentina better, go back there. If you like Canada better, stay here. In either case, stop promoting the destruction of the Argentine economy and middle class while living in a land of economic prosperity. If you want Argentina to continue with these policies, go back there and see the suffering they are causing.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #36 I am sorry happy canuck it is you who should go to Argentina and live there before trying to tell me what is better for Argentina. I lived there an know better then you what they lack. I find it hypocritical of you to try to minimize the fact that even the poor in Canada has to pay for HSTax. While in Argentina 99.9% of the poor don't pay tax and receive assistance from the government including free education and health care. By the way the poor in Canada don't collect EI they collect welfare and welfare doesn't help people who owns property. What reason do you think I have to lie to people. This are real life facts maybe they are racist and lied to me but those are the facts. Maybe you are white and the rules don't apply to you a very common occurrence in ontario legal system. I don't gain anything by making up this stuff. However I will like to point out that a lot of English people come by here showing their racist attitudes trying to tell Argentine's what's is good for us when in fact the opposite is true. Taxes and the use of them is one of the example. All english countries have higher taxes then Argentina but yet you all claim that higher taxes is not good for Argentina, who is the liar now?? Am staring to believe that not only are you all hypocrites but also compulsive liars. Good try! Better luck next time.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    99.9% of Argentines try to avoid tax.

    The free education is very poor in terrible conditions. I wouldn't house a dog in the schools I visited in Argentina. The teachers are constantly on strike, there are not enough books and in some classes not enough chairs. The teaching method consists mainly of rote learning. This explains the brainwashing. Teachers should teach their students HOW to learn not what to think.

    Free health care is a trial to get. You start queuing at 7.00am to see a doctor and then the wait for something like a small operation is often years. (A friend of mine facing a two year wait for an operation for carpal tunnel syndrome was seen by a sympathetic doctor who faked that she had had an accident to get acute treatment for her).

    I have lived in Argentina, visit regularly still and am in constant touch with Argentines when I am not there. I know how they think and they are not enamoured with the system.

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    http://en.mercopress.com/2012/09/01/top-tax-man-suggests-argentines-spend-vacations-in-the-country-but-he-prefers-punta-del-este#comment159876: As you point out the education and health care systems are in desperate need of improvement (nothing new in that). This improvement will require, among other things, more money spent in these areas. That, in turn, will require that the rich and upper middle class pay more taxes - something that generates claims on this board that the Argentinian government is redistributing wealth (as if that is a bad thing) and trying to kill the middle class (which, apparently, is on the verge of extinction already).

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    Mr. Pirat Hunter.

    Don't lie, the Argentine Government needs dolars because, no matter the incredile high taxes imposed to the agricutural products during the last decades, the got out of them. They stole all of them !!!!
    They are now trying to keep in the country the very few dollars that still remain in Argentina. That's the very same reason why they are banning the importation of products and pieces of machinery.

    If you check the Central Bank seserves you will notice that.

    In addtion trying to control the incredible high inflation they applied asymmetric devaluation that is destroying the manufactured goods exportation.

    Luckily they are running short of dolars and (I hope ) of time.

    Don't even dare to compare the quality of the public services (education, security, medical assistance) received by citizens in Canada with those receiving in Argentina. Doing this is simply offensive !!!!

    The Argentine government members are a group of corrupt that are destroying the Argentine economy again: the Peronists. Hopefully one day they would disappear from the face of the earth!

    Sep 02nd, 2012 - 11:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zhivago

    Pirat
    $900 a week! What restaurant do you wash dishes in, maybe I have eaten there? I guess you augment your income by giving guys happy endings at the health club. Please go back to Argentina and stay there, way too many spics in this country.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    PH
    If you have to fudge facts and numbers, and tell lies and half-truths to support your arguements, it's a pretty good indicator that your original premise was weak or contrived.

    BTW, At $950 for 4 days work, you must be the world's most experienced dishwasher to earn $30 an hour.
    Other kids are only getting $10/ hr, the Minimum Wage.
    I guess you were bragging to us. You must be so proud of yourself!

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Sir Rodderick Bodkin

    This little shit won't tell me where to spend my money of where to go on vacation. He can shove his %15 tax on his ass.

    Like if we haven't had enough with the prick of Moreno and his thugs, now this retard is suggesting what people should do.

    I hope you die fast along with the the mad bitch, moreno and all the stupid brainwashed idiots.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    On top of everything the mentioned 15% is not a tax. As stated by the National Constitution all new taxes must be endorsed, and approved, by a vote in Congress but, in nthis case, not a single Congressman has ever vote the 15% increase.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Sir Rodderick Bodkin

    @44
    You tell me.
    Anything is possible in People's Republic Of Argentina, Argenzuela or better yet, the North Korea of South America.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • jerry

    Maybe there could be a light at the end of the tunnel. I heard last night tht Ricardo Echegaray has 6 criminal charges against him in front of a judge.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    The only light at the end of the tunnel would be the lighting of a pair of missiles fired from the HMS Dauntless to the “Casa Rosada”.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Sir Rodderick Bodkin

    @47
    Looking forward to that.
    I would suggest to aim for Casa Rosada, Quinta de Olivos, Campora's bunker and Moreno's hideout.

    God, i'd pay to see it happen. Someone has to do something with this government. It won't be long until she turns into another Videla and starts making people dissapear for opposing her.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #31 Brilliant comment =)

    #47 I know you don't support Cristina but thats a dissapointingly treacherous thing even for you to say

    #48 Rubbish, its Videla's followers who are her worst enemies, she is a champion of human rights

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #38 I will not refute any of your statements but use them to prove my point, in your own words.
    “The free education is very poor in terrible conditions. I wouldn't house a dog in the schools I visited in Argentina. The teachers are constantly on strike, there are not enough books and in some classes not enough chairs. The teaching method consists mainly of rote learning. This explains the brainwashing. Teachers should teach their students HOW to learn not what to think.”
    You speak like someone who lived a privileged life who doesn't know that good education cost money, chairs, books and health care costs money and if taxes aren't enough IMF and WTO will gladly take all your rights and turn you into a hungry slave to benefit a white english or europen bankers over the brown skin working class. I am sure you loved Argentina up to 2002 with the IMF dictatorship running Argentina's economy. you could benefit from Argentina's education since according to you they teach kids what to think, and the way you spoke exposed the lack of thinking that went into your words. Keep telling yourself taxes are good and pay them without that Argentina will fall prey to IMF and WTO again, thanks for your intentions but you aren't Argentine and don't know what you are talking about. If your theory is that good use it in your country we have self determination in Argentina and things work differently in Latin America, thanks but no thanks.
    #39 well said I think #38 would benefit a lot from the Argentine education.
    #40 Argentine don't need dollars the working class works for pesos the dollars banish into bankers accounts and the working class end up having to replacing the stolen dollars. Replacing pesos with gold coins can do away with the need for dollars.
    #41 lol I am native American why don't you go back home to your murderous European racist family and stay there no one invited you people here. Keep in Mind you are a unwanted race here, your opinion is a privilege not a right.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    For God's sake. “pirat-hunter” you are worse than I have ever imagined !!!

    Check the list of things you wrote...you are ill!!

    So, do you think Argentina needs no dollars? yeahhh..most probably you will save in pesos so with an inflation of 25% (less than 10% is officially recognized) you will lose 1/4 of your savings per year. Good bussiness !!!

    The Government needs dollar to pay the debt and to give support to the Argentine Pesos that are worthless...the working class needs a currency to collect a salary, to buy and sell and also to save.

    You ignore the fact that from year 1990 to 2000 Ms. CFK was a government senator and she gave her positive vote to all of the economic measures the Peronist Government took at that time. Including the “Convertibilidad” and the privatization of YPF. Not to mention the presidential pardon to the militar that had commited genocide !!!

    You also ignore that Mr. Menem is now a government senator that votes in favor of all of the CFK proposals.

    Don't lie you are not a native american person at all. If you were one you would know that the current Argentine Governments has been accused of human rights violations againts some native people. The United Nations sent several warnings about this situation that, until now, have been ignored by the current government.

    Please, stop this charade and be intellectually honest....

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    PH a native American.........blowing smoking again I see. You forgot one other word in that statement native SOUTH American. You actually think by what you type ANYONE would or could possibly believe you are a natural American of the USA? Let's talk about this land I am selling in southwest Florida.........reeeeeeeeeeeeal great deal just for you!

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @51 pgerbil. You seem to have changed your tune. Are you another “argie” economic refugee? Proudly argie. As long as you don't have to live there. But living in the “failing” capitalist West. Like Canada, the U.K., the U.S. or the authoritarian, totalitarian (but failing) EU.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @50 PH
    Blathering again:

    #38 I will not refute any of your statements but use them to prove my point, in your own words. ”

    Sorry, Fail, defeated - you cannot successfully refute anything. The other residents of Canada and Argentina can see through your lies and half-truths.

    @50 PH
    “You speak like someone who lived a privileged life who doesn't know that good education cost money, chairs, books and health care costs money and if taxes aren't enough IMF and WTO will gladly take all your rights and turn you into a hungry slave to benefit a white english or europen bankers over the brown skin working class.”

    Apart from this statement reeking of lunacy and racism, you are blindly telling us that the glorious CFK is not funding Health and Education with the taxes on the “lazy” that you heartily endorse.

    Meanwhile, back to your main theme;
    You criticise European people who lived 200 years ago, for their actions.
    Now, you want to somehow justify committing yourself, the same acts you morally object to. And on a different race and people, who have not displaced any indigenous population.

    Nobody is going to indulge you in your nonsense anymore. You have shown us what you really are.

    Better get your new clothes and your pencils and notebooks together. You have a big day tomorrow, first day of school and all...

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Happy Canuck

    @#37 Pirat Hunter -- You suggested that I should live in Argentina in order to know what the situation is like and what the country needs. I'm not going to disclose anything about myself on here, but suffice to say I have significant experience with Argentina and its economy.

    I am certainly not minimizing the fact that lower income Canadians pay the HST -- all Canadians pay the HST except those who are statutorily exempt. In order to minimize the impact on lower income Canadians, the government gives them money back when they file their income tax returns. Also, as mentioned earlier, lower income Canadians pay a significantly lower rate of income tax. I won't get into a debate about the merits of various types of taxes with someone who obviously resents paying taxes believing simply that “the rich should pay more”. I happily pay taxes so that others may have a better quality of life, but you seem to feel entitled to money earned by others and you seem to believe that others should pay for benefits that you receive.

    With respect to EI, it is a social program and it is available to low and high income Canadians alike.

    Please stop making assertions about people's ethnic or social background. You don't know anything about me. Also, please stop making claims that “white” people are treated better in Ontario (or Canada) than any other ethnic group. Canada is a rather progressive country and while we do still have some issues with racism, our situation is far better than many other countries. Judging by your attitude toward people of European descent, I'd say that you are the one spreading racism.

    Given that you have decided to stay in Canada rather than returning to Argentina, I can only interpret that to mean that you you feel that Argentina's problems are worse than Canada's.

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #51 “You ignore the fact that from year 1990 to 2000 Ms. CFK was a government senator and she gave her positive vote to all of the economic measures the Peronist Government took at that time”

    Thats not right though is it, she was the leading rebel against Menem and had to leave the Senate and go to the lower house over it. She was like the Galloway to his Blair =)

    “You also ignore that Mr. Menem is now a government senator that votes in favor of all of the CFK proposals”

    Maybe he hopes that'll get him off the corruption charges, but Cristina is principled and the case is ongoing, no?

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @55 H Canuck

    A diatribe from PHunter,
    @36 on the “two out of three Argies re-elect Christina ” thread:

    “#30 freedom keeps me here. Self determination keeps me here. Rights to live and work keeps me here. It's a choice no man can take from me in America from north to south we are free to roam, the lines that Europeans drew on the ground is for the white man not us. We being here long before your papers and laws where writen, and we will continue to be here long after you are gone, we are part of the land for us there is no other place but America. ”

    Probably best to just ignore him :-)

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @51 she was revel of nothing !!!!

    In fact her husband was Governor of Santa Cruz and both of them received and praised President Menem several times in their province. CFK voetd in favor of the “Convertibilidad” and in favor of the privatization of YPF.

    I listened lots of strange and curious things in my whole life, but reading that “CFK is principled” is one of the most ones. Principled !!!!

    Carlos Menem was re-re-re-elected senator as a goverment senator so if she happend to be so “principled” she would refused to include him in the list of the candidates.

    Menem and CFK are two of a kind !!! TWO CORRUPT PEOPLE !!!

    Sep 03rd, 2012 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pirat-Hunter

    #47 a nuclear defence program in Argentina would make it an even and honorable fight. Don't you think??
    #48 blowing up Casa rosada isn't going to change how Africa , the middle east and south America views UK. I support a nuclear defence program in Argentina do to the threats coming from UK and her subjects.
    #51gold and gold coins is a good capital refuge. If you fix your mind on dollars chances are you end up depending in US products, instruments and policy.

    Argentina's economy, Latin America's third largest, is slowing sharply after booming during most of the last nine years. President Cristina Fernandez is determined to maintain a big trade surplus to help fatten the central bank reserves used to pay government debt.

    Her administration also defends its trade policies as a way to protect local jobs as the global economy struggles.
    www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/22/argentina-economy-trade-idUSL2E8JM8ZD20120822

    #52 good luck sell ling your property.
    #54 work tomorrow as usual someone has got to pay taxes to feed this blood suckers.
    #55 point well made but I can't accept people coming to Argentines trying to tell them that taxes are not good when in fact all wealthy nations make it mandatory to pay them. most Argentine don't even pay taxes so I am surprised at the outcry, a little strange, don't you think, the worst part is that the only people complaining are not even Argentine in case you didn't noticed, bias to be blunt. I hope you remember that I pay taxes in canada too and descent it, but I know that teachers, schools, books, health, and government programs cost money and IMF or WTO are not going to make them accountable for the loans, taxes and the national banks is the only way.

    Sep 04th, 2012 - 03:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @59 PH
    how late did you sit up, writing this junk?

    Sep 04th, 2012 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    PH remember when ( only a few weeks ago) argentina was referred to as south america's 2nd largest economy? The's year is not over, she can hit 4th, I have confidence in her!

    Sep 04th, 2012 - 10:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Back on topic:

    This is a tax when a credit card is used abroad, which is then offset against the holder's legitimate tax liability.

    This will only affect those who do not pay their tax, so I suppose if Elaine is correct and I have no reason to doubt her that will be the majority.

    However, 168,000 cards in a population of say 40M? Less than one half of one percent (0.42% actually).

    @23 Yankeeboy. I know of late you have been vociferous about Uruguay but a very large number of Argentines come each year to spend their holidays. How do our prices rise by 15% when regular tax payers can offset the charge against their allowances?

    And, knowing the Argies as you do, will 15% make any real difference to someone who spends a month in his own house in Punta?

    You said last year that not recovering the pesos from Argentina would deal us a blow. You were wrong then (they used credit cards in US$ as I predicted) and I suspect you will be wrong again this year also.

    Sep 04th, 2012 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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