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IMF warns Argentina on stats: next time (December 17) it’s a red card

Monday, September 24th 2012 - 22:50 UTC
Full article 63 comments

IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde warned Argentina on Monday that the multilateral lender is willing to show it a red card if by December the government of Cristina Fernández does not meet its promises of providing reliable inflation and GDP statistics, during a conference at the Peterson Institute in Washington DC. Read full article

Comments

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  • redpoll

    Bye bye G20. We dont want you Well I hope thats the reaction. One shopping trip less for madam president

    Sep 24th, 2012 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KretinaK

    Here in Argentina we are heavily protesting the Kirchner administration, their endless corruption in every corner of the government, stealing of public funds, outright lies to the public about everything from security to the economy to official inflation figures.
    Today we start a new protest in Argentina - it's called the “ANTI-KK campaña”. In our language “KK” is pronounced KaKa, and that is what we think of the Kirchner administration.
    We ask all citizens against the Kirchner “KK” regime to leave a bag of excrement or bring your dog to defecate on the steps of Congress, on the steps of the Casa Rosada, or in front of the door of any office of “La Cámpora” or another militant organization of this joke of a president called “Kolina”.
    Leave bags of excrement, or garbage or any other repulsive, non-dangerous item that stinks on the steps of or in front of any of these government related places. This is a peaceful protest, non-violent, and will send a strong message to the “KaKa” government that is destroying lives in Argentina.
    KK para todos en el gobierno!.......
    Harvard forum where CFK (ka ka queen) will give a speech on Thursday.......
    http://forum.iop.harvard.edu/content/public-address-her-excellency-cristina-fern%C3%A1ndez-de-kirchner-president-argentina.......
    This is how much her own people HATE her.......
    www.facebook.com/RepudioACFKEnNuevaYork#!
    And how turkey scrotum neck stays in power.......
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyPC0SD0PGw

    Sep 24th, 2012 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    If Argentina don't meet the IMF's requests they can always say it's the ex- British Empire's fault and link it back incoherently to the 1800s.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • uruk

    You sure have to sleep in the bed you make!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yankee I hope you read this.....Economides (oil and energy consultants) are claiming that no oil company will invest a penny in argentine shale fields with seeing the Repsol is reimbursed. The thought of investing billions based on words and even contracts is meaningless compared to actions.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    Why do the IMF even want this info, what do they propose to do with it given the already frozen relations between them and Argentina?

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ayayay

    Because they can stop the World Bank loans to Argentina, that's the sanction

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Shit is starting to hot the fan in RGland. Economides (oil and energy consultants) are claiming that no oil company will invest a penny in argentine shale fields without seeing the Repsol is reimbursed. The thought of investing billions based on words and even contracts is meaningless compared to actions. Her attitude could be tested during a meeting Thursday with Exxon Mobil Corp. CEO Rex W. Tillerson to discuss new joint ventures. Her botox lips or a handjob is not going to work on him. He already is of the mindset that no compensation to Repsol means no on vestment in argentina. All US oil companies are of the mindset. I hope they have a huge budget and lots of u$ dollars for oil imports nest year.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    This is not a news so no comments.
    Mr. Poppy or should I say MP.
    “Wishes are never realities”!!!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    9 GB (Great Britain?!)

    No news??

    No comments???

    LOL - you hate this, don't you!!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • NuevoParadigma

    Every time we followed the IMF's policies, argentines ended up poorer and closer to a crisis, like the one we had back in 2001-2. Now , after we paid the debt to the IMF , we don't have to follow their “suggestions” that are more of the same: salary cuts, retirees salaries cut, closing of social plans, etc. Allways , of course, the poorest and weakest were suffering under IMF plans. In 2001 people prosteted because they didn't have food to eat. Now some upper middle class is protesting because they cannot buy US dollars with tax evaded funds. What a difference !

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    As I said in other topic
    Argentina is one of the countries that is paying religiously, but the IMF needs to show or seems powerful.
    The IMF last week was having an asado in Argentina with the government.
    For months we were listening that the EU will be sanction Argentina, as the same as Spain and other countries as well. We hear that Argentina will be ckiked out of the G20, That Argentina will collapse. For years and nothing happened and will not happened.
    Please I get board I don’t know if this kind of no news makes someone at least happy for a second. Hope it does…
    When others countries are preying for money and some of them you know it very well… Argentina is growing fast, recovering sovereignty in different areas, its being independent, self-sufficient and at the same time paying its sovereign debt.
    Lets move on!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    #11 Exactly

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ayayay

    red card is like getting a Xmas card!

    @11, Perhaps that is confusing the bitter medicine as causing the illness?

    Economies are suffering BEFORE an emergency IMF loan is granted.

    Rescue money MUST be accompanied by increased transparency, the opening of monopolies to competition, and the ending of privileges given in exchange for votes, to increase the health of governance.

    Example: IMF just had the Greek gov sell off a slew of multimillion international vacation estates that behoused their 1%.

    The money generated keeps prescription medicine available for the Greek people again, after they couldn't get any when the gov ran out of money to pay suppliers.

    It takes YEARS, even DECADES, to -possibly-help in steering these economies around. And the people can choose to request these loans or not through representative democracy.

    The Arg gov REALLY wanted the $ 3.7 B in World Bank loans in 2012, they asked for twice that.

    BTW, Christine, the new head of the IMF, is a leftist :)

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    This on the same day that INDEC says you can live (food, travel rent etc) for 13 pesos a day. They will need to go quite some way to get their stats in order...

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @15 Quite. That was an extraordinary figure to believe if one has spent any time living in Argentina.

    @11 It is because Argentina did not follow the IMF policies that they ended up in shit street. They were keen to take the money but not adhere to the terms of the loan.

    @14 “Perhaps that is confusing the bitter medicine as causing the illness?” Well said.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Idlehands

    What does the red card entail. Will somebody have to put her over their knee to spank her bottom? If so I imagine British Kirchnerist will be offering his services.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KretinaK

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Gaston......at least you know your place enough and know who to call Mister.......lol

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    @ 12 : Argentina is growing fast, recovering sovereignty in different areas, its being independent, self-sufficient and at the same time paying its sovereign debt QUOTE .

    Quick glance at the RG newspapers .......

    1 ) 400,000 families will not receive their “plan social” welfare bribes for children in the 2013 fiscal year and pensions and other allowanced have been frozen once again , the 5th consecutive year in a row , with inflation running at 20% .
    2 ) Govt anounces the end of energy subsidies and electricity and gas will go up by as much as 350%
    Current temperature in Buenos Aires 4.2 oC
    3 ) The olive oil industry is in meltdown and 14 major producers have filed for bankrupcy citing crippling export tax as the reason. Argentina is the world's second largest producer and it's a major export commodity .
    4 ) Argentina now has more public holidays than any other country in the world , despite the fact that about 40% do not even work as they live off planes sociales .
    5 ) Piqueteros have once again blocked major routes in the city and there are delays on the railways , which are falling apart , SO EVEN LESS WORK GETS DONE .

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    RG brainwashing is an amazement! They truly believe the IMF created problems in Argentina and not their rulers.
    Maybe if their rulers actually did what the IMF suggested they would look more like Brazil than Bolivia.
    As their country crumbles they take more time off, expect more $ from the gov't and cheer their isolation. I wonder when CFK will shut off Internet like Iran...

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • PirateLove

    What a pickle, Argentine Govt having its hand forced, expect slightly worse stats from indec in the near future but never the full awful reality.

    will she admit that her government run indec was lying to everyone all this time, by producing slightly more accurate INDEC stats in an attempt to secure IMF loans before december? which in turn shows her people what a corrupt farce her govt is and forcing her popularity further down the u-bend both at home and internationally

    or as i hope, She will arrogantly stick to the reich plan of domestic and global deceit and turn on the international mourning widow once given the IMF red card, to gain some much needed evita sympathy points from her peasants while behind closed doors sucking off every global tyrant for a fistful of dollars.

    Argentinas future with their elected queen, looks............. :))) ITS ALL GOOD!!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Anybody reading some of the Malvanistas posts would think AG is a paragon for the whole world to admire instead of being the model for business schools to teach DON'T FCUK UP LIKE THIS!

    You have also missed the thing that makes TMBOA crap her knickers: having to admit years of rigging inflation data will result in the bond holders being underpaid.

    Bond holders are paid in accordance with a formula which references inflation. Less inflation (or rigging lower numbers) means less interest. High (or actual AG inflation) numbers mean MORE interest to be paid. This will result in a multimillion shortfall that must be paid IMMEDIATELY. TMBOA has spent or stolen the money and will NOT be able to pay them.

    That will be a crisis in itself because intending investors (if such idiots exist) will see for themselves how Nestor and then TMBOA have systematically robbed the very people who tried to help them by investing in AG.

    @12 Boatings Arse (love the anagram)
    “Argentina is one of the countries that is paying religiously”

    Are you a complete whack-job? Never heard of the Paris Club?

    FFS stop with trying to defend the indefensible.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @6 Argieland is supposed to be a member. Giving this information is one of the conditions of membership. But then, when argieland joined, it was thought to be a proper country.
    @11 Typical. Argies always like to blame someone else. Some attribute the 2001 crisis to Argentina’s misdesigned fiscal federalism, which caused subnational spending to increase rapidly. But an argie government would never admit that. When was the last time anyone saw an argie government admit it got anything wrong? And argies lie anyway.
    @12 Argieland. A country with less than 1/3 the GDP of some little islands off the coast of Europe. Come and talk again when you've got a GDP of US$2,308 billion. At the moment you've got US$710.7 billion.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ProRG_American

    IMF desperate for recognition and being made an example as a promoter of poverty and stagnation. Ignore them. They have been [aid and that's what they can't stand.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @25
    Haha, stop cooking the books and expecting people to believe you're constant lies all the time. You are like children - grow up!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    Yeah you are right Brit worker; you are doing it fantastically in England.
    The World wants to follow you're example! Yeah right!!!
    cheers

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Britain is not about to get a red card from the IMF, is it!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @25 ProRG American

    “Ignore them”

    I think the CFK administration can ignore the IMF. They don't want to issue any penalty with teeth and if they really issue a “red” card in December, it won't hurt anything. (“This is the last time!” Yeah, yeah, yeah.)

    The IMF wants the CFK administration to improve it's INDEC reporting. CFK can ignore this, nothing will happen. I think INDEC can, and has to, continue with it's current reporting policies.

    I want to ask you if you think, in your opinion, INDEC is reporting accurate figures? Yes or no.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Argentina's GDP and inflation statistics are just like their history of the Falklands - Propaganda.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @27
    On the whole, the last time I heard the IMF speak about the UK economy is that we had to find new ways to stimulate growth. I don't think they were telling us off for trying to sell them a pack of lies. A subtle difference don't you agree?

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    NPD & Paranoia is a very dangerous combination. It seems that most of the RG posters here need serious psychological help! No wonder there are so my psychiatrists in Argentina its too bad no one is going to them.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    Keep on dreaming fantasy boy, we are waiting you here with open arms and some other surprises, for you when you wake up!!!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Gaston...yeah all is well all is well keep shaking and telling yourself that.

    Bahahahahaa

    In its annual country classification, FTSE Group lists Argentina as a possible candidate for removal from the frontier classification while Mongolia is under consideration to gain frontier status.

    Typically, a country sheds the frontier markets designation to gain emerging markets status. It is a promotion of sorts from index providers such as FTSE and MSCI (NYSE: MSCI) because frontier markets such as Argentina, Egypt and Vietnam are viewed as even more risky and less developed than nations with the emerging markets label.

    “Argentina is listed for possible demotion from Frontier due to continuing stringent capital controls imposed on international investors and the perceived lack of an independent regulatory authority to protect the rights of shareholders,” FTSE said in a statement. “Argentina was demoted from Secondary Emerging to Frontier in 2010.”

    Read more: http://www.benzinga.com/trading-ideas/long-ideas/12/09/2939172/argentina-struggling-to-keep-frontier-status##ixzz27VcFjDLO

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    Yeah an apocalypse is coming to Argentina, other countries are crashing, serious ones…
    Others are hidden 4.000.000 of poor and hopeless people; others are stopping almost with magic social protests. But yes, of course Argentina is the worst.
    And for other hand that article, please…. LoL. It begun saying the their SA economy, then you don’t even need to read it all to note is trash. Benzinga hahahha My goddddddddd LOL
    Continue dumbing people that anyone can buy it.
    Cheers mates!
    Be serious!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You should be happy and proud that Mongolia is taking Argentina's place in the Frontier Index. I hear it is lovely there.

    Losers.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @36

    You microcephalic lout, you actually prove the opposite point. The fact that “Mongolia”, or Peru, or Vietnam, Bolivia, are much better ranked than Argentina in some unimportant “stock market” sentiment index has nothing to do with the reality of life on the ground.

    Kinda like the USA which still has people buying its bonds but on the ground the people are in terrible economic straits.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TipsyThink

    For all i remembér ,The uséless orgañization IMF hàd séén “” réd çàrd “”
    in 2002/Argéntina.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    oh dear, oh dear, oh dear!!!

    sounds like someone is going to get sent to the SINBIN!!!

    LOL and LOL and LOL again!!!

    It might even be time to get the ROFLcopter out!!!!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    No that is where you are wrong (again), Mongolia is seen as a more stable, less corrupt and has more of free market than Argentina. That is why you have to leave The Frontier Market and go to whatever is MORE Risky yes MORE Risky than Frontier.
    Other worldly maybe
    I think they said Egypt ( probably Myanmar& North Korea too) was there and they're currently in Civil unrest without a functioning government!!
    So yeah that is definitely where you belong.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @40

    The government functions, just not for the stock market vultures.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    OMG Is CFK drunk or are her meds off? Even the translator can't keep up! This speech is hilarious!

    Toby, Your gov't is considered a dictatorship gone wild That is why no one wants to invest htere and you are quickly getting excluded from the world's markets.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @42

    Fine, works for my isolationism well. I understand people don't like to invest where they may lose money. But I don't want them to invest and rip us off, as they always have.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh, Are you too stupid to know when you are being taken advantage of?
    Or is it every single Prez and Gov't official?
    Poor little victim
    Grow up

    CFK is making an absolute fool of herself at the UN. She is a nutjob.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @44

    Your opinion is irrelevant. The stock markets and vulture investors ripped Argentina off. Period. They had 12 YEARS of full privatization and not only that, they made all their profits in DOLLARS (the only country of significant size where they did), because of the currency board. AND they could adjust fees by AMERICAN INFLATION... not Argentine inflation, which believe it or not was then lower then the USA.

    Do you think that was fair?

    And 90% left for Europe or the USA, not in reinvesting in the country.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    So you are agreeing your Rulers and countrymen are too stupid to make good deals with foreigners.
    I guess that is why Latins are only good to be the maids and gardeners in the Norther Hemisphere. Want to come and clean my pool...no thinking required!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @46

    Nope, I'm saying we signed those agreemends in good faith and you and your people showed thieving, corrupt, and avaricious you are.

    Or, you could agree that the USA, Europe and the rest who bought argie bonds were too stupid to make deals with foreigners like us, and that's how they lost all their money.

    You can't have it both ways. hahahahahaha, gotcha.

    That's why foreigners come to Argentina to work as bartenders and substitute language teachers. lol

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    So, I'm guessing you sued these thieves in court somewhere? Did you lose? If they din't live up to the contracts why were they paid?

    Argentina didn't live up to their agreements that is why they owe what lets use a round figure U$40Billion in judgements and unpaid bonds/loans? Could be more but I'm too tire to look.

    I'm not trying to have it both ways I think everyone should live up to the agreements they signed/ratified. Too bad it is clear the rest of the world knows that Rgs don't and probably never will.

    Foreigners (well northern foreigners) don't go to Argentina to make pesos that would be idiotic. You can find lost $ on the streets of London and make more than a Doctor in your country.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    Oh please boys don’t be silly.
    Yankee boy or whatever you are, if you are happy thinking that o wanting to others think the same way about your posture, its fine.

    The USA, UK, Spain, Italy, Ireland, are all fine. We sorry we had to take and to believe in other ways. And Argentina will collapse soon!
    Have a nice one!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Truth_Telling_Troll

    @48

    Why not? They agreed to make local currency in all other countries. And again, they had that major advantage here. So why insist on inflation rates from another country to rip off consumers with 4-5% hikes in rates based on 1990s US inflation, when inflation in Argentina was 0%?

    Why not reinvest the money back then when the economy was completely open?

    So it was you corrupt, greedy northern thieves who broke the treaties first. All that has happened since then was the expected counter-reaction to the prior decade of foreign corruption.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Ok, Show me where treaties were broken and Arg subsequently went to Int'l court and won. Otherwise as usual you are playing the victim with made up Peronista lies.

    BTW do you remember the Austral? Do you remember the 30,000% inflation? Is that why they took on the U$ to control the inflation? Only to have the Ks eventually steal all of them and replace them with pesos at 3/1? Or do you only want to argue on the facts that support your craziness?

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • TipsyThink

    49

    this assiduos boy talks unremitting himself by different comment names
    but he can't answer the questions.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GastonBaires

    Are you talking about me Tipsy?
    I’m Gaston which is actually my second name and I don’t have clones like others here.
    And didn’t know you asked a question, sorry. Could you repeat it please?
    I usually don’t like insults and don’t like to play also the victim part and get offended, so prefer to stay away from some sort of issues.
    I know is not you case.
    Cheers!

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 53 Boatings Arse

    @52 is an AG bot. In other word, a computer programme that your compatriots 'teach' to recognise the opposition, such as me, and 'debate' against.

    Unfortunately, the programmers have omitted a reference table for it, so the already idiotic ramblings can be attributed to their own side as in your case.

    Great to be on the side of idiots, eh?

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    50. Toby are you having a little trouble with your task? It has been hours and hours you have been researching. Since you claim there were so many instances of foreign theft of Rg assets surely there would be some documented cases somewhere.
    Surely somewhere...anywhere...anyone...
    Funny there are plenty of documented cases where Argentina didn't live up to their contract/treaties/agreements..100s.
    Methinks your Peronista brainwashing is failing you yet again...

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • St.John

    Good things happening = Argentina is great!
    Bad things happening = it's somebody elses fault! - and Argentina is great!

    'Orgullo nacional' (national pride) and a lack of self-awareness are the greatest stumbling blocks for Argentine progress.

    My Argentino friends and I always feel sad when we encounter these silly notions and think of what could have been.

    Sep 25th, 2012 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ayayay

    @16 Thank you, Elaine.

    Sep 26th, 2012 - 07:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, I know you are on so please answer my questions or SFU.
    Whiner
    Loser
    Gardener who speaks English at least you can charge a premium.

    Sep 26th, 2012 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    http://www.nasdaq.com/article/argentinas-utdt-consumer-confidence-index-falls-11-in-september-20120924-00756

    Sep 26th, 2012 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @59 poppy

    Thanks for the article:

    “Most economists say the government's data are inaccurate and overestimate gross domestic product.”

    Other economists described the outlook as “grim”

    Sep 26th, 2012 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ozgood

    How is inflation measured in Argentina?
    I know that the Chileans disclose their “canasta”. Am I correct?

    The previous luminary who lead the IMF hid a dubious past. This one is clean. Does she have a background in economic sciences?

    Oct 01st, 2012 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redpoll

    Look: Can we stop throwing shit at each other? These jingoistic comments from both sides do nothing to promote good relations for the future. I think there are some posters who have good ideas but they get submerged in personal recriminations ans in some cases just sexual smut. Sooner or later the present political positions will be consigned to the waste paper basket and we will all have to learn to live together as soveriegn nations. Lets work toward that rather than flinging dung over the net which isnt conducive to good relations

    Oct 01st, 2012 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    78 days and counting

    Oct 01st, 2012 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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