MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Eight million Brazilian still live in “extreme poverty” conditions
Eight million Brazilians still live in extreme poverty, with monthly family incomes of 35 US dollars according to official data released on Monday and which represents a 5% drop compared to the previous survey. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesDilma, look South, talk to Cristina. She continues to do quite well with poverty reduction.
Oct 01st, 2012 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not a surprise in a country where the poor pays more than the rich, and still claims for more governamental expenditure.
Oct 01st, 2012 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Dilma, look South, talk to Cristina. She continues to do quite well with poverty reduction.”
Oct 01st, 2012 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Meaning, not a good example at all.
“Not a surprise in a country where the poor pays more than the rich, and still claims for more governamental expenditure.”
The rich creates jobs, leave them alone. What Brazil needs is a tax reform based on production...(that goes by state laws, but I understood it's already happening).
#3 Fido -
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said, the rich create jobs and should be congratulated and not taxed further as a punishment. For some strange reason Dilma is becoming more and more free market. She is cutting back regulations, lowering taxes, create new trade partners; very peculiar if you ask me.
I think Brazil has been doing a fantastic job. Of course still remind millions to be included.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I hope and wish they will make sooner rather than later!
We like you mates!
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/01/eight-million-brazilian-still-live-in-extreme-poverty-conditions#comment169939: The rich create profits for themselves. That may, or may not, result in a creation of jobs. In the last thirty years a growth of a US oligarchy over the last 30 years has not helped the people of the US or the nation.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Prior to 1985 Brazil suffered under an almost continuous regime of “rich created jobs”. Look at the Brazil of the '70s and '80s to see the result.
The Lula and Rousseff have and are effecting a historical transformation in Brazil. Hopefully the US can avoid Brazil's past condition. Now that Romney has outed himself it looks like, at least, the Presidency is out of his reach. Lets see what happens with the Congress.
Do you think the US will adopt more protectionist attitudes to create more jobs instead of speculate on market fluctuations?
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fido is the Latin for “” I trust “” derived from fiduciary and fidelity !
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0So all in all ,the state of the Financial System in many parts of the world is not in good shape.So what is to be done about ?As in old Irish saying ,the first response is to say I wouldnt start from here.But unfortunately here is where we are.
I don’t understand why this is a big news because comparably Brazil is better of than US that has 50m people living in extreme poverty.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil population: 199,321,413 and 8m poor
USA: 313,847,465 and 50m poor
In gross numbers
Brazil has 4m poor each 100 m inhabitants while US has 15m.
So US social situation is worse that the Brazilian one.
Does anyone has doubts about US is a third world country?
@9 It wouldn't be fair to ask you to put your assertions in context, would it? So I'll do it for you. Argieland's GDP per capita is US$17,376. Somewhat higher than the “average” argie annual income. For 2012, the US government set the poverty level at US$23,050. Shame that.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9 - What is considered “poor” is relative in each country. The poor in Brazil live off of $35/month as stated above. Poor in the USA are considered to have an income of less than $1200/month or so. So your comparison is incorrect.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#7 - Protectionist measures do not create jobs that will last very long. You will only increase the price of goods in the country, thus increasing the cost of living for the citizens. With less purchasing power, industry will then begin to suffer. Also you close markets off and they will close you off. Trade is beneficial to everyone and should never be restricted.
#6 - Brazil before 1985 was a dictatorship. The rich made their money by receiving special permissions and/or benefits from the government. Though there still are companies that receive special treatment by the Brazilian government, most do operate in a competitive market without the government deciding who the winner will be. In this type of case, the people that become rich did it on their own and should be congratulated. The money that they make will be put in banks that will then be available for low income families to be able to take cheaper loans out. They will then have the chance to also open their own companies up and make money and hire new workers.
I stand by what I have said, but some of you believers in trickle down economic just keep on believing in fairy tales. The Reagan regime sold us on this idea in the 1980's and we have been waiting for the trickle down miracle since then, and look where it got us.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am surprised that no one scruitinizes the Brazilian figures as many do with Argentina. Brazilians tell me that poverty in Brazil is still much higher than the 8 million. It may come down to criteria used to classify poverty, but in my opinion and as to what I have seen, the massive favelas, andoutright missery is still there in the open for all to see. The security situation in most of Brazilian cities is still the highest in the region. Hopefully this can be corrected, but it will take decades.
Conqueror, you missed an important variable in your equation. The cost of living is much higher here in the USA vs. “Argieland”. Having lived in Argentina and having visited it several times since, I still see the average Argentines quality of life, living conditions, and standards to be higher than the in the rest of Latin America.
Dilma is realising that the chronic handicap that comes with leftist thinking is holding her country back.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She, uniquely in LatAm, is changing and adapting to the opportunities that are clearly there for Brasil. They were there for Lula, he failed to take them preferring the old corrupt actions of so many 'leaders' in LatAm.
Well done, Dilma.
3 Fido Dildo
“The rich creates jobs, leave them alone.”
Had the conversion of Saul, have you?
Only the other day you were going mental when somebody suggested France needs to have a retrenchment of the workers getting paid for doing no work.
Keep smoking whatever you are getting from Dam Square, it makes you seem human.
#3
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess i was not clear. What i meant was that we have regressive taxes and instead to claim a reform, they prefer to live with governamental assistance.
Nothing wrong with rich people, im just pointing the ignorance.
People need to realize that taxes will usually affect the poor and not the rich. The rich can afford good lawyers and accountants while the poor can't. The rich are the ones that pay for the politician's campaign so loopholes are there for a reason. Also, any tax will only increase the price of a product, and since the poor are the ones that spend their income for their living expenses, they suffer the most.
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#12 - Brazil's politicians are well know for their corruption, so much so that it is expected out of them and thus the population doesn't really mind it too much that they are stealing. There is plenty of criticism on them but it just so happens that Brazil is experiencing a good economic time and so people overlook the corruption even more.
As for Argentina, it is going downhill and fast. The country won't sustain what is being done. For now I would say that Argentina may actually have less extreme poverty families than Brazil, but the trend is turning.
Chile is not behaving. Spank! Spank!
Oct 02nd, 2012 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/10/02/un-agency-says-it-will-stop-calculating-chile-stats-after-25-years/
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/01/eight-million-brazilian-still-live-in-extreme-poverty-conditions#comment170064: I hope it does neither. What the US needs is a bit of “nation building”.
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Conqueror
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poverty is something relative to your environment and cannot be measured in $$$ only and less not taking into account currency values.
So if you are in isolate in a Island like “Robinson Crusoe” and you have 2 billions pounds and there is a guy that have all the available food in the Island... Who is the Rich?
You just have toilette paper only useful to be burn in a fire.
People dream to be “Rich” to retire and live in a beach and eat fruits while contemplate the landscape with beautiful women (in your case men), a Brazilian already can live in a beach, eat fruits and see “Garotas” from all over the world and without working.
So who do you think is richer? A guy earning 20k Pounds at year in London living in Brixton sharing a house with 10 more and having to save money to afford all the bills or a Brazilian in the beach?
I prefer to be poor and homeless in Brazil than poor in London, is very could in winter...
@BAMF Paraguay
I see you have cited very well all the necon’s book but Planet Earth doesn’t trade with other Planets not even in the same galaxy so according with you what is gonna happen?
Global collapse perhaps?
Dany Dany...even trade between two people is beneficial. If Person A is able to produce fishing nets very well and Person B is able to use them very well, the two can together produce more fish. B can either trade his fish for more fishing nets to A or trade with another person. Without trade it is impossible for you to have all the goods available to you in the modern world. Specialization and trade are crucial for development. Just look at countries that don't trade and you will see the result...
Oct 03rd, 2012 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imperial China: Went from being the dominant world power to a backwards nation after isolationism (prohibition of trade with foreigners) was initiated.
Imperial Japan: Exact same situation as China. They prohibited contact with foreigners. Only after the western powers forced open trade was Japan brought into the industrialized world.
Korea: No need to mention anything here.
Argentina: With its new restrictions on trade, the country's growth will stagnate or shrink, throwing the country into a horrible economic situation.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/01/eight-million-brazilian-still-live-in-extreme-poverty-conditions#comment170647: What a quaint view of Asian history you have.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 04:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0China's fall from “dominant world power” status and, much more importantly, its decline in national well being began in the 18th century when the UK started importing opium into the country. It was solidified by the two Opium Wars, the first a British only event and the second involving the UK, France, Russia and, regrettably, the US as aggressors. What followed was a century of “free trade” with China which impoverished that country and in which it lost most of its sovereignty. This situation only came to an end with the establishment of the PRC which first re established sovereignty and subsequently re established trade parity, if not dominance, with the west.
Ironically, the PRC is now doing to the UK what the UK did to China in the 18th and early 19th century. The PRC is gutting the UK's economy.
Japan, having seen the aggressive behavior of the west in China, made some strategic decisions following Perry's “visit”. These decisions led to the Russo Japanese war and the WWII in which the Japanese attempted to do what the UK had already done but because their skin is of the wrong color and their eyes are the wrong shape could not be allowed to stand.
I have seen not reduction in Argentinian trade. Do you have any figures?
@BAMF Paraguay
Oct 04th, 2012 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know what all books say about the subject, what you don’t understand is how international trade works.
World trade is still manage as is known as “Managed Trade” each country tries to protect their market as much it could.
Britain protects its financial sectors even in detriment of jobs and industries, France protects everything including farming sectors, Germany don cares like Britain about the farming sectors but protects own companies and industries, Japan is a very protectionist country, US protects the farming and technological sector, Brazil is protectionist, etc, etc, etc.
Argentina is doing the same so why are you so upset about Argentina and not about US, France, UK, Germany, Italy, etc?
Are you in the farming sector? Those people that believe that if in SA countries will not be restriction for EU and US products you will recreate another commodity boom like in the 30?
Well you are so wrong.
US, Europe and Asia will do anything they can do to obtain cheap commodities with no add value to sell you whatever they can and you can build the most technological power house in town they will use the whole manual to avoid you to get into their markets.
They will fit new productions standards, fito-sanitary rules that will not apply for them, Quotas, etc.
You are in Paraguay right? So what is your problem mate.
You can export your products as you wish to paradise liberal countries. What are you waiting for?
Argentina is rebuilding its industrial capacity that was complete destroyed by the militaries and Menem, in 10 20 years more may be Argentina will be ready to flex the borders and promote free market as the others.
So be patient...
Dany -
Oct 04th, 2012 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just because the USA, Europe, Japan and other countries are doing something wrong doesn't mean that we should as well. The barriers to trade that these nations create is horrible most of all for their own people. As stated above they will only end up paying more for their crappy national products because competition doesn't exist. Japan has been a stagnant economy for decades now; it took no advantage of the boom in the 90s and continues to suffer slow growth. Europe has started the same process and the USA is close behind. These nations will experience sever recessions if not depressions. Trade barriers are only one piece of the puzzle that is causing this problem. High taxes, burdensome regulations, frivolous government spending which increases debt, and a whole list of bad policies creates an environment that is not conducive to the creation of new business and thus jobs.
Paraguay most definitely suffers from the agricultural trade barriers and/or subsidies that most countries have, but we are so competitive in farming that we are able to continue the substantial economic growth. Like you said, we choose to trade with whomever is willing to trade with us.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/01/eight-million-brazilian-still-live-in-extreme-poverty-conditions#comment171095: Not only is your view of history quaint but so is your view of current conditions.
Oct 04th, 2012 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take for instance Japan. As you say Japan has bee “mired” in a period of low growth. However, Japan's current unemployment rate is around 4%. Japan has an excellent health system and one of the longest life expectancies in the world. Japan is one of the world's major exporters and creditor nations. The World Bank's “Ease of doing business index” ranks Japan as the world's 20th (Paraguay is ranked 102). And, by my own subjective assessment, food in Japan is better that the food in Paraguay. So the question is which of Japan's many problems will solved by freer trade with Paraguay?
@ BAMF Paraguay
Oct 05th, 2012 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well Mr. BAMF when Paraguay gets the size of Japan, EU, US or even Argentina with your policies call me please.
Exporting just commodities and row materials as a long time policy is the “Business of the fools”.
Why I will export potatoes when I can export “frosen chips” creating all the manufacture and add value at home?
The failure of US, UK and others nations it is not only that, otherwise because they have privileged financial speculative sector over manufacture industries.
Hepatia and Dany -
Oct 06th, 2012 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am not trying to criticize any particular country but instead the policies that some of them are implementing. Paraguay is a far example of how a country should be run, even though it has a lot of good aspects to it; free trade and low regulations being what I see as the most advantageous. These two policies will help to continue the good growth for the years to come but it won't be enough to create a modern industrialized nation. The lack of a judicial system and subsequent corruption will forever scare away any foreign investment.
What has happened in much of the industrialized world is simply bad policies. Most 1st world countries are drowning in debt and they are unwilling or unable to change their spending. Because of this and several other bad ideas, their growth is slowing down and in many cases shrinking. However these nations reached the point of being industrialized they are now somehow undoing it and going backwards. USA is diffenitely at the top of the world in nearly all aspects, but with the current system, we all can see the writting on the wall; they just can't last this way. Something has to give, just like it did in the USSR. The USA and so many other countries are now trying to implement the failed ideas of socialism that the USSR tried. People need to realize that there is no free lunch.
@BAMF Paraguay
Oct 06th, 2012 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ok MR BAMF seems you have all clear to follow the road of success and you have all you need in Paraguay to archive your goals.
So what is your problem if Argentina wants to do other think?
I suggest you to do business with the guys that publish those wonderful articles in “The Economist”, “FT”, “La Destruccion” and “El liberal of Paraguay”.
Why are you bothering yourself with stupid Argentinean communist?
May be is because your lack of cheap labour that prefer to work in Argentina for a decent salary that to stay in Paraguay to be exploited to death?
Have you ever tried to import liberals from UK?
May be you will find some from “The Economist”, “World Bank”, “IMF”, “WSJ”, etc to work in Liberal Paraguay in a farm for a salary from a free market policy oriented country.
2-“People need to realize that there is no free lunch”
Bankers, speculators and necons also.
3-BTW what do you do for living? what is your core business?
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/10/01/eight-million-brazilian-still-live-in-extreme-poverty-conditions#comment171811: Yes, I understood what you were trying to do. You are trying to say “get government out of the way and let the market solve our problems”. This is, of course, pixy dust which you are trying to sell. The only “problem” that laissez faire markets solve is to make those who are already wealthy wealthier. All other problems are only solved by democratically elected governments restraining free markets for the public good.
Oct 08th, 2012 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seem not to understand what has happened and what is happening in the world today. The first clue of your lack of understanding is that you lump a number of countries, which have very different circumstances, together and claim that they all have the same problem. As I pointed out above Japan does not have a problem at all. Neither do the “socialist” countries of northern Europe - the Scandinavian countries an the Federal Republic, etc. Greece's problem has been caused by corrupt governments as has Italy's Spain's, the Republic of Ireland's of Ireland's and Iceland's problems have been caused by incompetent, or criminal, bankers - i.e. the unregulated free market - likewise the US's problems.
So, tell me, which of these countries' problems would be solved by less regulation. My answer is none.
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